by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier
I’ve wanted to write a blog about several different subjects for a long time, but I didn’t know what to call it. What I’ll do today is clear the boards of a couple small, unrelated things.
American Airgunner
As you know, I spent most of last week in Ft. Smith, Arkansas, filming the 2014 season of American Airgunner. I’m in a segment of the show called “The Round Table,” where a bunch of guys talk about different subjects. This year, we did some hands-on work that was more exciting than last year, but I’m not going to tell you what that was. You’ll just have to watch the show like I do!
We worked with 5Star Productions — an award-winning video production group based in Ft. Smith. I’ve worked with several video companies over the years, and I can tell you that these guys are first-rate! We knocked out all 13 episodes in three days of filming and even shot some bonus footage because they were so efficient. Getting out of the office is hard for me these days, and it’s such a pleasure when I get to work with professionals who know exactly what they’re doing!
The Round Table set on American Airgunner.
On the last day, we filmed on location at a large ranch in Oklahoma. The four of us — show host Rossi Morreale, Steve Criner, Rick Eutsler and me — were very loose and somewhat tired. Rossi was talking to Steve about how he seemed to change whenever he was on camera. And that’s when this happened: Behind the scenes outtake.
Now, on to the blog.
I got this new airgun and…
Pyramyd AIR gets a lot of customer feedback about the guns they sell. Recently, a gentleman wrote in to complain about the accuracy of a Crosman Fury Nitro Piston rifle he’d purchased. He said he was a 1,000-yard benchrest shooter, so he knew how to shoot, but he could not get the Fury to group.
No kidding! I bet he also couldn’t get a rack-grade Marlin 30-06 to shoot well at at 1,000 yards — either! And Corvettes make lousy pickup trucks!
Come-on, guys. When is a $120 breakbarrel springer ever going to give you dime-sized groups at 30 yards? Maybe the Air Venturi Bronco can do it, but not too many others. And, when you stuff a gas spring (the Nitro Piston) into a budget-priced rifle, it’s going to push everything way beyond the limits. Sure, it’ll work, and you may get wonderful velocity numbers. But tight groups? I think not.
Pyramyd AIR, however, gave the gentleman the more civilized answer.
A few things to try. (1) Your gun may have barrel droop and might benefit from an adjustable mount that helps compensate for droop. (2) Try JSB or H&N domed pellets. You should see a significant difference. When it comes to pellets, you get what you pay for. (3) Tighten all stock screws. You’d be surprised how many guns have loose screws after just a few minutes of shooting. Many people use blue Loctite on their gun screws so they don’t have to stop shooting every few minutes to tighten the screws! (4) Springers often require a break-in period. Many people don’t see consistent groups until 500 or even 1,000 shots. In fact, when Dr. Robert Beeman owned Beeman Precision Airguns, he stated in his catalogs that springers needed 500-1,000 shots. While springers these days may not need quite that many, they DO need some break-in time. If you don’t have a lot of shots thru your rifle, you may want to put some pellets downrange to see if accuracy increases. (5) Lastly, how about using another scope? Not all scopes are created equal. Get a different scope (one that you know has good glass and can stand the 2-way recoil of a springer) and see if accuracy improves. Hope these suggestions help.
These are all things that experienced airgunners do with any new rifle they get. We expect to have to do them and are pleasantly surprised when we discover that one or more of those things isn’t required. But the bottom line is what I said at the beginning. Don’t expect inexpensive airguns to group tight — and be very thankful if they do.
I can’t win
I recently tested a Daisy 880 and got criticized for not testing a brand new gun. I was told that my reviews influence a lot of people, and I should always test new guns that represent exactly what the customer will get.
When I write a report I put a lot of words into the article. It this particular report I wrote the following words:
The rifle I’m testing for you is about 13-14 years old, but it probably has fewer than 500 shots on the clock.
That means the rifle I’m testing is not new. I imagine my readers don’t always know what I do, but they can read and understand what I’m saying.
In the second report, after showing the velocity numbers and remarking that the velocity varied widely, I said:
The Daisy 880 varies greatly in velocity from test to test. You may think this is because my 880 is an older one. I can’t argue that. If you want to run the same test with a more modern 880 and submit your results, I’d be glad to see them; but please back up any claims you make with chronograph results.
I wrote that paragraph so the readers would know the possible reasons why the gun I was testing was acting like it did. I never anticipated that anyone would use parts of each of my reports as material for a debate on ethical writing! But, seeing that it happened, I thought it was important to point out everything that was said.
Some folks worry too much about the other guy, and forget to watch over themselves. I like to let each reader ask his own questions and not let one reader speak for a group that may or may not exist.
However, there was enough discussion on this topic that I requested a brand new Daisy 880 from Pyramyd AIR, which I’ll test when the test of my old rifle is finished.
This sort of thing sticks in my craw because it happens both ways. When an older rifle doesn’t do as well as it should, I get criticized for testing it. And, when an older rifle does better than it should, I’m told that I shouldn’t test an airgun that is so well broken-in. That happened when I tested my TX200 Mark III. I was told that my older rifle shot faster because it was so well broken-in. Now, I’m told the Daisy 880 shoots so poorly because it’s an old air rifle.
You know what I think? Air Arms guns get better with age — or at least that’s what people think. And Daisys wear out over time, or at least that’s what people are saying. Maybe there’s some truth hidden there?
When I get this new airgun, where should I get it tuned?
This comes up all the time. People buy a brand-new airgun; and, because of the reading they’ve done, they assume it has to be tuned to work for them. I’ll admit there’s some wisdom in this philosophy, but I think something more needs to be said. Why not shoot the gun awhile just as it comes? I have a story to illustrate this.
Many years ago, I bought a Ruger 10/22 rimfire rifle for an article I was writing on silencers. But I figured I could test the rifle in different ways and get even more stories out of it. Well, the story I got turned out to be quite different from the one everyone thought.
My late friend Mac had a 10/22 that was a tackdriver. He’d sent it to Connecticut Precision Chambering for a target chamber, a headspacing job and a trigger job and reckoned they could do the same for me.
When I first tested that rifle, it wasn’t that accurate. It grouped about 1.5-inches for 10 shots at 50 yards with the best ammo available. I was glad to send it off for the work. I figured this was how Mac had gotten his rifle to become so accurate. When it came back, the trigger was wonderful, but the rifle still wasn’t that accurate. Ten shots would now group a little larger than one inch at the same 50 yards.
This puzzled Mac, who was sure my rifle would become a tackdriver after the customization. A tackdriver would put 10 shots into about a half-inch at 50 yards. I still own that rifle, and it’s never done better than an inch for 10 shots. But I bought an aftermarket 20-inch Badger bull barrel for it that gives 10-shot groups under 0.6 inches at 50 yards. Then I acquired a Ruger 10/22 Target rifle that has a hammer-formed barrel, and that one would put 10 into 0.540 inches at 50 yards with the best ammo.
Now, about 12 years after all of this has passed, I recently chanced to pick up a 10/22 Deluxe in a trade at a gun show. The Deluxe is the standard rifle but with a walnut stock that’s checkered and a bolt that’s polished. The trigger is still hard and creepy. When I shot it I was amazed. Finally, I have a 10/22 that’s a potential tackdriver right out of the box. No, it hasn’t put 10 into a half-inch yet, but it has certainly gone under an inch with no modifications.
Here’s the point I’m making. Before you invest serious cash in any gun, make sure it’s got good bones to begin with. Otherwise, you’re just putting lipstick on a pig.
B.B., your never wrong. And Gunfun, Gottchya…. 😉 You do a great job Tom and an absolute service to the world of airguns, any criticism is unfounded and foolish. If someone doesn’t have appreciation for this blog they need to just shut up and read awhile. If they still can’t find appreciation they should continue to be quiet and go read some of the of the many “make it up as we go” blogs. There will always be someone that disagrees no matter what you say, but nobody can knock you on your own blog, especially such a long running, solid and informative one as this. Ok Im done, sorry one more, B.B. for president! Ok now Im done.
Speaking of Oklahoma, I was talking to Reb about an Italian mondial spring pistol. Its missing the barrel catch lever, any way to find such a thing? or just buy a couple of this pistol and frankenpistol them?
P.S. I think tuning should be as much by your own hand as possible, no better way to know your gun then to dig in and git er done.
Rifled DNA, I’ve been looking for the barrel lock for your OK, I think it was die cast also, it doesn’t look easy to fabricate. I read one thread that said the co. changed names & relocated to Ca. I’ll have to sift through my history & find it again because ,somehow I lost it. I keep reading about how it was mondial’s best offering due to being rifled?
No rifling, thanks so much for looking for the part for me, I think I said the transfer port was closed tight, I think it was supposed to be for compression, its slingin the alloys good, still maybe 300, but 7.9 cphp are like mardhmellows, probably the new leather piston face needs to break in but mechanically its working great. It says my NP has shipped, to bad the tracking number says not found, I think they do that cause I bother everybody tracking packages, always, lol. But should be here tomorrow since it went early this morning.
RDNA
Keep checking your tracking number. When I order the receiving info usually shows up around 4:00pm on my tracking numbers anyway.
De Nada! I was just as curious as you and I know what it’s like to have a new toy ,especially one that needs tinkerin’ on! It sounds like this gun would be a good one to test transfer port variations on, the way the breech seal is designed.
I checked and that’s the origin code, not yet a fedex track number, it hasn’t been scanned at fedex yet. Boy does my impatience show when waiting and tracking an order. I go nuts! Mostly impatient but partly cause I don’t want my packages sitting anywhere for any amount of time, I take it right from the delivery guys hands so my crappy neighborhood doesn’t get any ideas with it sitting out. Id really be “tracking” then!
Mark T asked about substitutes for JB bore paste, while looking into that for my own curiosity, I came across a page that was all homemade recipes for gun related cleaners and treatments, while most are for firearms there are a lot that could be used for AGs, and I know a lot of guys reading burn powder anyway so thought might like to check this out – http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm#top
BB I like when them pigs wear lipstick. They stand out. Any pigs listening. Right now do not use lipstick or you will be in trouble.
And you said you were going to throw in a video here or there. But what a video to start with. I hope he is getting compensated for that video. Or maybe you should ask his wife.
Anybody that reads what I said above just act like it never happened.
And yes some guns perform better than others of the same type.
This is something that always stuck in my head when I was building the old muscle cars throughout time. And I think I said this before. We would put together 2 cars with Quote” identical” parts and we could never get both cars to perform the same.
Why would it be any different in something else other than cars?
Remember those cheap “mini-bikes” of the late 60s? The ones with a 3.5HP Briggs&Stratton engine, square profile (tractor) tires, and a brake that consisted of an aluminum pad that pressed against the tire?
Two “identical” Sears models (mine and my brother’s). My brother’s was about 2mph faster on the flat. BUT had no torque for climbing small slopes — he’d be at full throttle as I passed running half throttle.
centrifugal clutch weight springs, Jeez, I wish my 760 was this easy!
Yep me and my brother had them and go karts then dirt bikes then cars. You could get good ones and bad ones. And for sure it didn’t matter what brand it was.
First, July!?!? That is going to be a long wait. I hope it is worth it this season.
Second, he may be a very experienced powder burner, but obviously he has no experience with sproingers. He bought what and expected what?
Third, no matter what you do or how you do it, you cannot make everybody happy.
Fourth, people will always read or hear what they want. If that does not work, they will hire an attorney to twist the words around to mean what they want.
Fifth, although it is very true that you should give them a chance to show you there merits before you start tinkering with them, sometimes we already know this particular toy is going to need tinkering with and that to some of us is half the fun. Sometimes we pick up pigs just to see how they look with lipstick.
Omg I’m laughing so hard, this is true for all types of things!…… ooh snap!
Please don’t tell my wife I said that…
I have an air arms 300 s that I over field and since then it has been leaking down to zero. Can I order a reseal kit and install it myself or do I need to send it somewhere, would like to know who and where I can send it to get it repaired thanks.
Winston,
Resealing a PCP wouldn’t be a job for someone who hasn’t been trained. I would contact Pyramyd AIR. They are the U.S. importers.
B.B.
Good morning all.Glad you wrote about tinkering with airguns.Some may feel qualified and truly are and have a understanding of the mechanics of how airguns work and some I’m sure are fairly simple by design standards.But as for me I will not tear into something half cocked on knowledge.Why because it COST to much if I mess it up and also it will probably screw up any warranty it may have.I just talking the mencanics here.I do make my own gun stocks but that’s as far as it goes.Back to what your saying BB.I believe it or not have never even turned the first adjustment screw on my marauder.Why because the thing is a tack driver wright out of the box! I don’t have a crony so there’s even more reason not to fool with.I know from being a Airforce owner that my talonp using the magic pellet ONLY likes ONE setting that’s power level 8 and 2500 psi. with 25 grn. JSBs.and the same setting for 31 grns.Any other setting and it starts getting weird and unpredictable.So knowing this why would I mess with the Mrod.Seems to me if ya mess with speed,you loose shot count.If ya slow it down,ya loose foot pounds.If ya speed it up you gain foot pounds but loose shot count? So i ain’t messing with it.Thing has killed I know because I keep count over 225 squirrels in three years.So I will not adjust a thing.This is only me and not trying to be closed minded about learning the mechanics of airguns but some of us are better off leaving it to the pros. to preform any needed work on.Then as BB has stated in no uncertain words ‘you get what you pay for’.I found that out with the Benjamen piston and the wonderful peace of junk scope they supplied with it!Sorry was a real let down an I’ll just leave at that.Put it this way if ya was a hunter and relying on some of this entry level stuff,you and your family would be loosing weight fast! I were a known as someone people would listen to and I’m not,but my advise would be if ya wanted to start out enjoying this airgun hobby or sport,cut threw the sounds to good to be true advertisements and put down some hundred dollar bills even if it means saving for a while and get something good from the start and don’t waste good money like I did on something you will be trying to get rid of for half the price down the road. I know I keep stroking the marauder but read the reviews here on Pyramyd AIR and I would say that the discovery would be a good start although I’ve never held on in my hands but I can tell its a heck of a fine shooter for the money from reading all those positive reviews.Sorry again for the rambling but I stayed home today because of a head cold thing.Last I had the 10\22 stainless model in the 22 mag.Thing was a tack driver and ya better do head shots unless you like squirrel pizza pie.Had for many, many years,and sold it to help fund the talon.That’s correct sold a perfectly good powder burner that was proving for a pellet gun? Show what these airgun will do to your head! But try to find ammo for it,not in my area.
I have learned much, and had a lot of fun, experimenting with firearms and air guns. It is interesting how different airguns and firearms are. I have much more to learn, and great experiences ahead.
Its interesting that some individual rifles are accurate while an identical rifle isn’t, or that identical rifles prefer different loads. Surely there are mechanical differences in barrels, bedding, scopes and other reasons, but it is a thing of wonder to shoot a consistent, accurate rifle.
RB
RB,Yes no two are ever the same in anything it seems.I’ll read a review now and then on a person who just bought a airgun of I know has a back ground of excellence and yet they clam they couldn’t hit the side of a barn from the inside? So assuming there just not a pimple face young teen that doesn’t have a clue about shooting and its a person of common sense that knows what there talking about then that does prove no two are alike.I hate it for that person that purchased the one in hundred lemon, and they wright a negative review for that product when at the same time mine couldn’t be any better.Maybe there is a good Benjamen nitro piston out there somewhere that is a nail driver? I tried two of um.The second was better then the first one but it would extremely pellet fussy.Only would shoot wad cutters then for no reason it would throw a daycare fit on me! It would shot fine for say five round then off to visit three inches the paper to the right! The first gun wouldn’t hit a coffee can at sixty feet,I swear that’s the truth! That’s what BB means,ya get what ya pay for and seems around $200.00 in the airgun world will only do two things to ya.That either disappoint to the degree that one might just say I ain’t fooling with this airgun thing,or it will just make you want to spend more money and get one that is bragging rights and a tack driver.I have to admit I was excited when the nitro thing came around because you can hunt with it cocked and ready to fire unlike a spring gun that can’t be carried for any length of time because of spring fatigue.Ever try cocking a springer while a squirrel is starring you in the eye? Doesn’t work to well most of the time! So I’m sure there is very good gas pistons out there for hunting purposes with hopefully some tack driving accuracy.I would love to have one if so just in case my PCPs go down.But it would have to atleast drill a inch at 120 feet in a 22 cal. If there is one out there someone please inform me.And not BBs April fools joke from last year that he got me on! LOL! sorry rambling again and it’s still 22 degrees outside and I can’t go out and play yet.
Hey lets not alienate the pimple faced teens, there are some pimple faced teens designing game changing products and running companies and tuning airguns that’ll shoot circles around you, case in point the lego FAD kid, built a full running and accurate bullpup assault rifle out of legos! That was amazing!
didn’t mean to be offensive,and yes you are 100% correct,I’m sure there are plenty that can out shoot me.I’ve been out shot by many In my days even when I had pimples.Wish I could back to those days. I give anything to pop just one more.
I know it, if we could have known then what we know now. Id be a very successful man, and there would’ve been a serious collection of toys built up by now!
Saw a bumper sticker one time that said ‘he who dies with the most toys wins” I kinda played that game for the first half of my life,but for some reason child support kept those things at bay? So I just buy myself one nice thing a year if I’ve been good and I’m to da.. old to be bad.
Naaw, never to old to make some trouble, and you can’t take it with you. Gotta have a little disregard for the robot money chase and just live. Priorities are often a bit more flexible then people think, well not the state, you’ll always have the pockets out to them, but there’s money to be made and bills to be delayed! Lol, just don’t drive, eat, shower, smoke cigarettes, diaper the kids, laundry, use your phone, etc….. and you can get a new toy, ignore the rent and it can be a sub MOA toy!
In a van, down by the River!
Or~ Youth& vigor will always be overcome by old age & treachery!~
Im waiting for the B. NP Limited because it should fill exactly those criteria. I think any gun can be made accurate if you find out why its not and what it wants.
My current go to .22lr is a Ruger 10/22 Deluxe I had a chamber and trigger job done on. It will do .625 ctc with match grade ammo which is good enough for me and frankly hard groups for me to maintain.
Biggest downside to me of a 10/22 is the base factory stocks and trigger, but I can see how folks can get carried away with mods.
Currently thinking about taking the little Ruger to an Appleseed Shoot.
Bub,
I’m thinking that with a chamber/headspacing job and a trigger job my Deluxe will probably be around that accurate. It’s certainly a lot of gun for the money!
B.B.
As I mentioned a while back, get the Timmey Trigger drop in unit. It will cost around $180.00 so you may get a better deal with a tuned factory trigger. But, everyone that has looked at the one I have just says “Wow!” At the end of the day it’s only money……..the government prints more every day!
Mike
I have a 760 pumpmaster that I got a little carried away with and whooped every mod I could come up with on it ,Powermaster 66 pump assembly, found a rifled barrel , small check valve,lighter valve spring, stiffer hammer spring opened valve & transfer port to match transfer port seal(gasket matched in auto tech talk).The gun will take 15 pumps before retaining air! It also hits very hard(Man do I need a chrony!) but shoots softball size groups@ 10m. I did fit a soda straw barrel into the breech block at one point with good results, kinda looked like a Verminator and yes, I did cut down some arrows for it so maybe there is still some hope for it.
My point is IMO, This was way too much work to be done all at once with no documentation of each modification’s pros or cons.
fortunately, due to careful consideration this was an inexpensive gun that can easily be replaced.
And the most valuable thing I learned was that I need to be more patient!
I was actually thinking of a 760 yesterday. I was thinking of replacing the barrel with one bored for BBs only, like maybe a Daisy 499 barrel.
I’d really like to get it to group so I can run lead bbs for a fast follow up, @ 20 pumps I get a nice, healthy 2nd shot & with a screw driver I can take it just about anywhere I’m torn between a m4 177 replacement,.22 or soda straw(trimmed out like this I get 20-30 yds of good power with the bolts I made.)
I’ve still got the original smoothbore. Wanna trade?
I don’t have a 760. If I happen to pick one up at a yard sale, I might just see what I can do with it.
I’ve seen some really nice mods and claims of 750fps with 7.9 so 8-10 fpe all for $50 & some scroungin’ & sweatin’, a rifled barrel and die-cast reciever would be nice but then you’re looking at$80-$100.
there was one which had the stock inletted to fit the plastic reveiver inside for added reinforcement… There it goes again!!!
Hi B.B. ~ welcome back. Here’s your suggested reminder to address the intricacies of the AirForce airgun “top-hats”. In a photo of one of your past blogs, it showed a knurled flange on the tank’s top-hat ~ is the absence of the knurl on current valves a manufacturers hint that re-adjustment is not owner/operator friendly? Also & related ~ ref. your blog of Mar. 12; “Common PCP leaks & fixes” ~ would a good Preventative Maintenance measure for an AF tank valve assembly (Spin-Loc) be; (1) or (2) drops of “air chamber silicone oil” added to the input nipple, every 1K – 2K rounds? Or is that “asking for it”?!!
Rich 8T2,
Bless your heart! You actually reminded me!
I will do a report on the AirForce top hat this week. And to get you started, the AirForce top hat has not been intentionally adjustable since 2001, when the Talon first came out.
No more until the report. 😉
B.B.
RB,sorry I misread your comment and that I did ramble on a bit,but I thought I misread it as you were amazed how different the same airguns can be.Anyway to late to withdraw.I think I’ll do all a favor and go out and play now that the sun is shinning.I’m building my son a remote cabin here on the farm far far away from humanoids and even TV signals.
It’s still life below zero in the UP of Michigan. But, I have a project. A friend just gave me a Marlin/Glenfield Model 75 .22 LR Carbine. It had rust on the barrel, lots of dirt, loose screws, no magazine tube, missing front sight, would not fire. You can see why he gave it away!
Well, I worked on it this weekend. Cleaned the rust and cold blued the barrel. Cleaned and sealed the stock with polyurethane finish. Cleaned the action and tightened the loose screws. Cleaned the inside of the barrel, the rifling was perfect! I found and ordered a magazine tube ($28.00 Shipped)
and a front sight found on EBay ($12.50). I put it back together, dropped a shell in the chamber while outside, pulled the trigger………Bang! So, for $40.00 I will have a working semi-auto .22 rifle. Now Glenfield .22’s sure aren’t a high dollar item but it is still fun.
It sure beat shoveling show1
Mike
Awesome! I need to find a donor for my rem. 550-1, it was a tackdriver I left it with my brother when I moved to Austin back in ’98. My nephew got ahold of it somehow, and now from the breech plug to the firing pin is gone.I bought it in ’95 for $50 and ran over 1500 rounds of cheap ammo through it with nary a misfire, cb shorts 27 round cap. all the way to cci stingers 16 rounds, as fast as you could pull the trigger!
I would get with your nephew, it sounds like he owes you some money or needs to find the bolt. Check out gunparts.com, gun shows, Dick Williams Gun Shop (In Michigan) and EBay . You may be able to get it running again yet!
Mike
The kid has a bad case of cerebral palsy. he can work but, My main concern, at the time was the fact that I also had 2 Winchester model 12’s 1 in 12 & 1 in 16ga and at the same time my brother ha a savage 7mm rem. Mag & sawed off 20 ga in the same place! I’m happy & proud to say he’s about to turn30!
B.B.:
I’m glad you acquired a fundamentally accurate Ruger 10/22. Before you invest too much in a trigger, you should try installing a Volquartsen or a Power Custom hammer. Either one should bring the trigger pull down to about 3 or 4 pounds and eliminate a lot of the creep. These hammers don’t cost much at all and are easy to install.
It won’t be as good as a Kidd or a Volquartsen drop-in trigger (at $300 or so) or even a Timiny, but it should show you what the gun is really capable of without much more investment.
Good luck with the gun.
Leon,
Thanks for that advice. I have spent so much money on my first 10/22 that I’m reluctant to spend more on this one. Maybe a good hammer and some gunsmithing I can do on my own will do the job.
B.B.
I got this question from Rob,
Hi Tom,
First I want to say that I have really enjoyed your articles over the
years, I have read just about everything you have available on-line. I
have a quick quetion for you, I recently purchased an Airforce Talon,
which I so far really like, but I notice it has a very creaky first
stage on the trigger. It is not just feeling it creak you can hear it,
second stage is fine. Is there anything you could recomend I do to
reduce the creak?
Thanks
Rob
Rob,
I have never encountered a creaky trigger on an AirForce gun. But the new trigger may have some things that I don’t know.
When you say creaky, you do mean that it makes a sound? You aren’t really saying creepy, are you?
B.B.
I believe I missed the big joke on the outtake, but it looks like a good time was had by all. It seems to me that in the new age of social media that everyone is becoming a potential media producer of their own. Of course some are a heck of a lot better than others. Speaking of video production, I cannot resist quoting a scene from one of the Batman movies. It was one where Danny DeVito plays The Penguin. As part of a nefarious plot, the villain Christopher Walken is promoting the Penguin as a political candidate for which he needs media exposure. And for this he is turned over to a couple of media professionals who turn out to be quite disrespectful. The conversation goes like this.
Media: And we’ll need some powder for all those reflective surfaces. He he ho ho.
Penguin: Ha ha. Well at least my nose isn’t gushing blood. CHOMP.
…
Interesting about how Daisy products wear out over time. Derrick and I are currently trying to figure out what is wrong with my Daisy 747 which keeps having mysterious problems.
Matt61
I think it has a lot to do with Daisy recommending motor oil, Although they may have tested it in their guns and specified ND-30 with satisfactory results but to some people motor oil could be …who knows?
I’m just looked at the Pyramyd air main page and noticed they are promoting field target guns. I got to looking at wjat is in my stable and I have a few that are good guns, but I’m looking specifically at my Airforce Condor. I’m thinking dial it all the way down and put in a .177 barrel it might be an unbeatable gun. God knows it’s dead accurate. Any word on if this thing can be put down into an acceptable power range for field target? I’m a bit spoiled with pcp guns since I don’t need to put so much effort into each shot. So I really don’t want to use a springer.
John,
A Condor run at low power can work for field target. The trigger is certainly good enough, as is the accuracy.
If the Condor has any shortcoming it would be the light weight. Most shooters want their field target rifles to weigh around 10-12 lbs, fully loaded. That is for stability. Of course if you shoot in the Hunter class, that doesn’t hold as true.
B.B.
Just stick a “tri-rail” adapter on the various scope rails and add a few hundred dollars worth of scope mounts (no scopes).
I’m sure you could add a few pounds to the Condor that way.
Great blog, Everything BB said is true. I have had Hw and Diana that were full tuned and needed a lube tune shortly after 100-200 hundred shots, nothing lasts forever. When will the 22lr epidemic end? Its not the manufacturers, retailers or the gov to blame. Just buyers overreacting purchasing all that show up.
B.B.:
A good hammer improves a 10/22 all out of proportion. I just checked and Volquartsen is now selling a target hammer and sear combination for $80. That may be more than you want to spend. They say on their web site that it will bring the trigger pull all the way down to 2 or 2.5 pounds, and that was my experience.
I had never tinkered with anything mechanical until my very accurate Daisy 953 jammed badly. I plucked up my courage, gathered a couple of tools, and a couple of hours later I had taken it all apart, solved the jam, and put it back in working order. What a sense of accomplishment!
I then decided to tackle building a 10/22. With the help of a couple of great web sites, I managed to put mine together piece by piece over time. It’s great to shoot air guns and firearms you had a hand in making accurate. I find most firearms much simpler to deal with than air guns.
Thanks for all the great information in your columns.
Leon,
No, $80 isn’t out of the question. I was just not wanting to spend a couple hundred on this rifle. But if I get the trigger nice, then I may want the chambering after all.
Oh, well! I guess we’ve all been down this road.
B.B.
The ole Airmaster is really coming together today with a Tasco 4×32 i’m nailin’ em @ 60 yards!
BB. Lipstick on a pig? That cracked me up.. I have a friend who says ” can’t make a silk purse out of a sows ear “. Kinda the same thing I guess. Gotta question. I’m looking to purchase a 1911 BB pistol. I’ve done the research and believe the Tanfoglio would be a good choice. Realism is a must. Weight and operating features are a must. What do you and all you others think? Opinions and suggestions are definitely welcome. Thanks ! Toby
Is it just me or did anybody notice BB using phrases from comments on the other daily blogs, BB are you turning into “US”… or was this done with a purpose “wink wink”.
BB. Lipstick on a pig? That cracked me up. A friend of mine occasionally says ” can’t make a silk purse out of a sows ear”.Kinda the same thing. Gotta question. I am looking for a 1911 BB pistol. Weight, functional features and decent accuracy are a must. I have done my research and figure the Tanfoglio is a good choice. Any feedback from you or the readers of this blog are more than welcome. Thanks! Toby
as a guy who originally requested the 880’s review and got responded to; i hate that 880-part 2’s comments sick so hard in your craw.
i want to stop and apologize for any an all rudeness, i personally did, and others wrote, because no one who posted back then will respond to your comment on Monday. but i will.
i would hope, we are all just a bunch of guys trying to prove you can get good results out of a daisy, on a budget. i have been fighting this fight (with the opposition’s fans, crosman) since most of us got our first pellet shooter (see us as 12 year-olds if you wish), and as you and i have seen before, this is a fight of equals will result in a fist-fight till we grow up.
what i am saying, is that, when you try to convince any one to consider the other side, they get mad, just like if you told them that their gun was trash. this is why (insert any gun here) the daisy guys come out of the woodwork to shoot-down any review that does not saint (that said gun) daisy herself. (i believe in st. Daisy, and San Crosman, both)
but i honestly wanted to know what the 880 would do as new, as i have bought a new one within the last few months. i wished i could have read parts 3-7 before i bought the 880, just to know more, but sometimes you and i may not agree. it isn’t a problem, just a point of discussion. i have the greatest respect for your opinion, but i have read (years) enough to know how to add just enough salt for me, salt to taste, as you do with my comments.
i apologize for all my fellow daisy fans. what we lack in tact, we make up for by telling you how great daisy is. for every great 10 shot group, we loose 1 month of reliability, or whatever…trade offs, like cost vs. craftsmanship, or materials vs. cost.
(man, last week in oklahoma kind of sucked (come back thursday and try to battle 25mph winds down on the little river, it will be bikini weather, 78F.))
thanks, for your time.
rob
Rob,
Sometimes I need to get angry. It shakes me up and stops the complacency.
If you guys can’t say what you mean then this blog is diminished.
Just tell it like it is and let the chips fall.
B.B.
By the time I sold the 880 I commented about here, the gun was very respectable with nice balance good weight and plenty of power. The lead shims I added to the receiver/buttstock connection made a big difference by adding much needed weight & rigidity. I can’t wait to get my hands on another one!
i believe in the whole pantheon, lord air force, st. daisy, san crosman, lady diana, lord styer (the most awesome), underling gamo, etc.
the entire industry deserves praise, but not sure? selling most of their #’s to now-nothings? golden age? way to not die like any other American industry, way not to see manufacturing, cheaper or better, as a benefit.
to get stuck on one brand, is to be tied down to a post or brand.
rob
I do like the fact that you are going to be reviewing a Daisy 880 and thank you much for it.
I think that your older Daisy 880 was giving poor results because it had been largely in disuse. Daisy 880’s that are regularly used and kept oiled tend to last a very long time and stay up to par. The one big thing that I know of (other than seals decaying) is that some times enough oil will build in the valve that you need to open it and drain out the extra oil.
I do respect your opinion. I understand that your Daisy 880 was not the greatest.
I use my Daisy 880 every day and it is a good hunting as well as plinking rifle. I was disappointed in your review of the Daisy 880, though only because it was an older Daisy 880 and it does not keep up with any Daisy 880 that I know of. Now if you were to get a not as good new Daisy 880 I would understand that it is the Chinese lottery giving you the worst end of QC.
I do thank you for all of your reviews, and hope that they continue. I think that you will likely get good responses when you review the new Daisy 880.
I also shoot other brands of MSP Air guns, and do think that they all deserve there fair view.
I shoot Crosman and Daisy guns the most, though I have had others.
Again thank yo much for your reviews BB and keep up the good work.
DavidS,
We already saw several owner reports of velocities on their 880s that agree with you. The older ones are slower and the newer ones are faster and more consistent.
I’m close to starting the first report of the new gun.
B.B.
I am looking forward to it. I am sure that your review will give a good clear and accurate image of the New Daisy 880 that you receive.
As a quick heads up some report trouble with Pellgun oil. I know that 30wt non-detergent oil works well (and is what the manual calls for).
DavidS,
As I indicated in the last report, the manual, which is online at Pyramyd AIR, calls for 10-, 20- or 30-weight motor oil. Pellgunoil is made with 20-weight motor oil, so it is in the middle of the desired range.
B.B.
Ok I just checked (I got the manuals out this morning for a different reason).
One of my paper manuals that came with the gun says 30wt non-detergent, the other says 10-20-30 weight non detergent, and the Web manual says 10-20-30wt non-detergent.
I do not know why the difference. Thank you for pointing it out.
I look forward to your review.
Tom, I for one always find your reviews and comments to be the very best. Reviewing a fifteen year old air rifle is not only fun, but with all the older guns that are being “discovered” it is needed. How someone finds fault with it is beyond me. Keep it up. There are always going to be people who think your job is to only focus on their particular area. Personally, I like to read about all sorts of stuff. You never know where a new love or idea is going to come from. Thank you for your even-handed and most complete reviews. I am looking forward to your review on the NP2. I really want one, if the real-world models are as good as the SHOT Show version!!! Thanks, Ken
Ken,
Is this your first post here? If so, welcome to the blog!
If this is just a handle change, you are still welcome.
I’m looking forward to the NP2, as well. I told Crosman if the one I got from them shot like the one I tested at the SHOT Show, I would buy it.
B.B.
First post. I am a PA customer. I do like the way the NP2 looks. It appears to have very little recoil. Should be good for scopes. Like I said earlier, if the reviews, especially yours, come in favorably – I WILL have one.
Ken,
I updated the spelling of your name. If you refresh the browser, it will come up as Ken.
Welcome.
B.B.
does anybody out there know what lapping a barrel is???? steve, why dont you take that pig you have been putting all different kinds of lipstick on and try properly lapping the bbl??? take about half the rifleing out and shine it up to look like a mirror inside and it will shoot with you best guns…stop throwing OUR money away.