2014 Toys That Shoot Airgun Show: Part 2

by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier

Part 1

Here’s what we’ll cover in today’s blog:

• Correction to the first report.
• Some vintage airguns.
• There were parts for sale.
• Vintage store displays and boxed BB guns from WW II.
• Ft. Worth airgun show.
• NRA Annual Meetings and Exhibits.

This is the second part of the report on the Toys That Shoot airgun show in Findlay, Ohio. In the first report, I showed you a lot of vintage collectible airguns — some commanding very high prices. Today, I’ll show the other side of the show — the one where regular people would buy and sell. Before I get to that, though, there is a correction to the first report. I mentioned seeing a muzzleloading big bore air rifle on Dennis Quackenbush’s table, and I gave you the impression that he designed it. He did not. That rifle was designed by its owner, Mike Paulus, who commissioned Dennis to build his design. Dennis told me as much at the show, but I wasn’t listening. I thought he was being modest; in fact, he was telling me that Mike designed the rifle. Dennis just made the parts for him.

Paulus rifle

Mike Paulus’ big bore airgun was mislabeled in Part 1

Mike also made the stock entirely on his own. Dennis said the concept was so well thought out that it was very straightforward to build, and Mike is extremely pleased with his new rifle.

Vintage airguns
Let’s be honest, we go to these shows to see the extremely rare guns, but we also go to buy fine vintage guns that are affordable. This was a wonderful show for this. In past reports, I focused on guns like the FWB 124 or the Diana 27; but this time, I looked at the other kinds of guns collectors and shooters want.

Let’s start with some desirable vintage pistols. I saw a good number of Crosman 600 semiauto repeaters at this show. They ran from $90 to 200, depending on condition and what they came with. If you’re looking for a classic pellet pistol, this is one that’s hard to beat! The 600s were selling for $75-125 more than this just 5 years ago, but the boom peaked and the price has fallen back. Now’s the time to buy.

vintage pellet pistols
Crosman 600s on the left at the top and bottom and a Mark I or II in the center. On the right from the top are a chrome Hy Score 800, Crosman 150/157 and a Benjamin 100/107 at the bottom. All were affordable, and I believe they all worked.

If you’re more of a collector than a shooter, these same guns were available in their boxes with all the original accessories and literature.

vintage pellet pistol boxes
The same vintage pistols were also available in their original boxes. These were incredibly affordable!

Somebody remarked that there were a lot of fine Daisy model 25s at this show. He was right. I didn’t photograph them all, but one stand was particularly picturesque. It looks like an arsenal “organ” of guns from the 19th century.

rack of Daisy 25s
Sharp eyes can pick out at least one very early Daisy model 25 pump gun in this rack, but there are actually many variations, including different types of wood stocks. All are vintage and desirable!

Parts, parts and more parts!
One thing that’s always needed are the parts to fix these old treasures. With guys like Ron Sauls, Tom Slocum and Larry Behling at the show, you’re connected to the best and finest. Ted Summers had a huge display of vintage parts for Crosman and Benjamin guns — as well as two custom salesman’s cases that were used to transport the Crosman airguns to stores when representatives made their calls.

parts
“Where can I get …?” was answered all over the Findlay airgun show.

Store displays
These weren’t for sale, but it was fun to see the store displays that were popular back in the 1940s and ’50s. I’m not old enough to have seen some of these when they were new, but they sure do make me nostalgic for those old days. It’s nice to see that simple cardboard displays made it down through the ages.

Daisy double barrel display
Lucky was the boy or girl who got a Daisy double-barrel BB gun.

Daisy Defender display
That’s a copper-plated Daisy Golden Eagle on top and a boxed Daisy Defender from WWII. Very few Defenders were made (in 1942!), and fewer still survived with their boxes. I don’t know if this box is original or a repro, but it looks perfect next to that fine air rifle!

What would B.B. do?
I went to this show with a couple guns in mind. One was a BSA Meteor Mark I or II, to compare to the Mark IV I’m currently working on. So many people told me the Marks I and II Meteor are the best of this model, and I wanted to get one to compare. The one I found at this show turned out to be a gorgeous Mark III; but, as that was just a bit too late in the production cycle, I had to pass. Too bad, because the condition was very nice!

Next to it in the rack I visited at least 5 times was a Slavia 631 in great condition. So, when blog reader Mitchell in Dayton Steve Darr mentioned he was looking for one, I sent him over for it. He got it, as you will soon learn; but from our conversations, he knew I was also looking for an El Gamo 300 rifle to go with the XP 68 I tested for you in 2012-2013. The 300 is very similar to the XP 68, but in a conventional stock.

Imagine my surprise when Mitchell returned with his Slavia and told me that right next to it in the rack — yes, just 2 places down from the BSA I had been looking at for 2 days — was the El Gamo 300 I was looking for. Well, I rushed right over and was so enthusiastic that I lost all my bargaining power. I paid almost the full sticker price, simply because I could not wipe the grin off my face! Well, it wasn’t that much money, anyway (which is how I justify the mistake to myself).

El Gamo 300

El Gamo 300 is a plain rifle that promises to be interesting.

The other acquisition is one that walked right up to my table. A young fellow was carrying a rifle bag, and I asked him what was inside. He said it was a Hakim. Now, most of you don’t know this, but my airgun kryptonite is the Hakim rifle. I’ve owned more than 15 of them and they all worked when I got through with them (except for a pile of parts I shipped to the talented Vince). But this Hakim was different! The stock had been replaced. While that does lower the collector value on most guns, in this case it was like plastic surgery that turned the bride of Frankenstein into a pretty woman.

The new stock is honey-colored walnut that shows lots of straight grain. The metal parts have a lot of original Parkerized finish remaining, so the overall look is quite nice. I tested the action right there at the show, and it didn’t seem to be anything special — but we’ll see when I test it for you here.

Hakim
I’ve never seen a Hakim air rifle with a stock like this. Let’s hope it shoots as nice as it looks.

I bargained very hard with this young fellow — mainly because I was about to spend a lot of money on this gun. I gave him a nice offer that was still about $100 below what I see people asking for them on Gun Broker. And this rifle is probably worth the higher figure. But I did not care. If I could get it for what I offered, I would buy it; if not, I would still have a lot of money in my pocket.

He was reluctant to sell at the price I offered; but since it was a lot of money and since he had nothing in the gun, he finally accepted. This may be the first time I’ve bargained so hard for a bluebird walk-in airgun that I really wanted! At any rate, I now have a very pretty Hakim to test for you.

One additional thing. My friend Wayne Fowler offered me my old Air Arms Shamal rifle that I sold him when I left Maryland. He offered it for the same price he paid me; and since it is a beautiful air rifle, I asked Edith to buy it as my birthday present. She agreed because she also feels this is one of the most beautiful airguns I’ve ever owned. And the accuracy was stunning.

Edith has told me I can have the rifle as soon as it arrives, so there’s one more great airgun to come out of the Findlay show. Naturally, I’ll review it for you.

Summary
I had a lot of fun at Findlay. It was a show that reminded me of airgun shows from 20 years ago. It had the guns, the buyers and all the excitement I remember from the great airgun shows of the past. If you can go to just one airgun show, put the Toys That Shoot show at the top of your list! Or — come to my show in Texas.

The Ft. Worth airgun show
As some of you know, I’ve been putting together a Texas airgun show. Click here to read/download a flier. The show is sponsored by Pyramyd Air.

The American Airgunnner television crew is coming to film the show. AirForce will be there with a table, as will Dennis Quackenbush, Eric Henderson and Jim Chapman. I hope to get Umarex USA and Daisy to attend. There will be a dedicated airgun range at the gun club where this show will be held on Saturday, September 6. If you want to see what airgun shows are all about and meet the two top airgun hunters in person (Henderson and Chapman), plan on attending this dynamic one-day show.

The NRA Annual Meetings and Exhibits
Pyramyd Air has a booth at the 2014 NRA Annual Meetings and Exhibits being held today, tomorrow and Sunday in Indianapolis at the Indiana Convention Center. Pyramyd Air provides the public airgun range at the show, besides having a display booth (No. 4523). The NRA show is like a mini SHOT Show, only it’s open to the public. Admission is free to NRA members, and a small fee is charged to non-members. This is a wonderful opportunity to see the new guns and the people who make and support them. If you’re able to come, consider attending. Here’s some info on the range and which guns, ammo and accessories will be featured there.

90 Responses to “2014 Toys That Shoot Airgun Show: Part 2”

  • Chris Says:

    B.B., Just wondering if you will be attending the Kalamazoo MI airgun show? And is there an online listing that you know of for airgun shows? Findlay was my first and I absolutely loved it, can’t wait to go to the next one and spend more money than anticipated!!!

    • Mitchell in Dayton Says:

      Oh no, there is a show coming up in K-zoo? I don’t think I can manage a trip all the way down to Texas for the show down there as much as I would like too, but Michigan is right next door. My poor wallet hasn’t came close to recovering from Findlay as it is….

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Chris,

      I won’t be attending the show in K-town this year, but I have been there in the past.

      Ron Sauls has a calendar of airgun shows on his website:

      http://www.bryanandac.com

      B.B.

  • Ronald Fernandez Says:

    B.B.,
    Speaking of vintage airguns, would you happen to know the muzzle velocity range (and muzzle energy ballpark) that an Abas Major air pistol puts out? I am also curious about the velocity capabilities of the Warrior air pistol (in both .177 & .22). I have been doing research over the internet about the subject, but I have yet to come across actual chronograph figures for both these rare British concentric air pistols. Thank you.
    -Ronald

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Ronald,

      No, I’ve never tested an Abas Major or a Warrior. I’ve only seen them at airgun shows.

      My guess is they shoot slow, because of their age. Guns weren’t that powerful in those days.

      B.B.

  • Mitchell in Dayton Says:

    As a footnote, had I not spent so many years lurking on this blogs pages (and only recently posting), I would have never even considered owning a 631. I kind of consider it a poor man’s R7. In other news, I have a chrony on its way so I’ll be able to contribute a little more meaningful data around here in the future.

    • Gunfun1 Says:

      Mitchell glad you got you a chrony. Definitely a nice tool to have.

      Maybe you will have a nice little 1377 fixed up to test. :)

    • RifledDNA Says:

      Ahh, chrony. When I finally get a chrony it’ll be like the first time man realized he could track the minutes in a day. I’ll feel like Newton getting hit in the head with an apple.. Benjamins Lightning! Haha, you like that? I think that’ll be what I name my frankeNP, np limited (nps) in a Legacy stock, really limited now! Loving it too, much more comfortable. Waiting for new pellets for it, in pretty good shape right now with my airgunning. Chrony, you are my next hill to climb!

      • Gunfun1 Says:

        RDNA
        So you do have the new stock on the gun? And when you going to have the pellets?

        • RifledDNA Says:

          The new stock came Tuesday, sorry bout not getting on here, I didn’t even get a chance to read 880 pt 4… but yep after a lot of trimming it went on, the pellets are supposed to be here probably tomorrow, maybe sooner, hopefully not later. I got a picture to B.B. but so many things have changed I might as well have him scratch what I sent, wait for the pellets and put the mods and accuracy together… I thought I was done modding it, I should’ve known better. Day after I send pt 2 crosman says they have a stock… and she time ordered pellets.

          • RifledDNA Says:

            …she time? How about- same time…

          • Gunfun1 Says:

            RDNA
            Make sure you check out part 4 of the Daisy 880 review. There was some interestic topics that got talked about.

            And then the stock is working out like you thought? How about your shroud. Did you ever get it back on?

            • RifledDNA Says:

              It didn’t fit right in like I thought, but I made it fit and it definitely was worth it, the trigger is in a good spot and the whole deal looks mint, like a short barreled lupua sniper. I had the shroud on and off about 4 times now, its off right now and can go right back on, so I have the option, might have to find the most accurate pellet then see how the shroud on or off changes things. Its definitely louder without it, but more manuverable and I don’t have to think about whether In knocking it around cause its not 100% secured front to back though it stays centered.

  • RidgeRunner Says:

    I hate airgun shows. All they are is a big boy’s candy store and all you have is a nickel.

  • RidgeRunner Says:

    Speaking of gas spring air rifles, does anyone know of a source for appropriate gas springs?

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      RR,

      They have to be purpose-built. The dimensions are critical.

      If you just want to play around with PVC and ping pong balls, you can buy a gas spring at any auto parts store.

      B.B.

      • RidgeRunner Says:

        That is kind of what I suspected. I think I have found a source for them. I will have to determine the dimensions, stroke and force I need and see if something will fit. I can make any bushings and such I may need.

        • Michael Says:

          RR,

          Are you in need of a gas spring for a specific air rifle? If so, the manufacturer, especially if it’s Crosman, might sell you an exact replacement.

          Michael

          • Mitchell in Dayton Says:

            Pyramyd sells a few different gas springs that are already used in a few models separately as parts. I’m sure someone handy enough to whip up some washers, bushings or even guides could get one of these to work. I would imagine the main thing to overcome is figuring out the swept volume and the overall length of the assembly both relaxed and cocked in order to keep it in the same range as a spring setup. Heres the link. http://www.pyramydair.com/a/Accessories/Parts/Gas_springs/76 The Best part is that you know they are already good for airgun usage.

            • RidgeRunner Says:

              I have not ruled one of those out. First I must determine if they will physically fit and then whether they would have too much force for my desire.

          • RidgeRunner Says:

            I am tinkering. A Theoben would probably be what I want as they are adjustable.

      • Michael Says:

        B.B.,

        I’m afraid you just got the twisted tinkerer in me thinking, often a dangerous thing.

        Could a spring piston for, say, a large truck, along with a custom made huge piston, fitted into a big pipe and mated to an aftermarket air rifle barrel, be a springer that, once loaded with a 1.49 grain alloy pellet and cocked by slapping the muzzle end with a cricket bat and cocked by backing a car against it with one end of the rifle propped against a brick wall . . . could it kill one of those giant alien bugs from Starship Troopers?

        (Sorry for such a long question.)

        Michael

  • hankmcrae Says:

    B.B.,
    Great report on a show that looks like a blast to attend. The name always makes me cringe a little. It was drilled into me at an early age that any projectile launcher is not a toy, but I suppose I should get over it.
    That Hakim is really beautiful! Your test is highly anticipated. The examples on gb and others are still a little more than I want to spend, especially for a spray painted rellic thats been drug down a dirt road!
    -hank

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Hank,

      Those Hakims are what the rifle usually looks like. I describe the stock as one that’s been used for pole-climbing practice. And the metal parts are usually scratched and bent. But underneath it all lies a genuine Anschütz rifle with all the quality that implies.

      I look forward to the test.

      B.B.

      • Mitchell in Dayton Says:

        Easily my favorite part of Hakims are the spooy skull and bones in front of flames cartouche thats on them. I remember reading what it was for somewhere but the details escape me at the moment….

        • B.B. Pelletier Says:

          Mitchell,

          And, by “spooy,” I presume you mean spooky?

          B.B.

          • Mitchell in Dayton Says:

            Yep. Im trying to post on my phone while im waiting in the doctors office. Its a little hard to type on this thing.

            • Gunfun1 Says:

              Phones are cool but I dont like them at times either.

              I think mine messes with me on purpose

            • RidgeRunner Says:

              You should try to type on mine. Having to hit each key two or three times is a real pain.

              • Gunfun1 Says:

                RR
                I know what you mean. Mine is like that also. And then sometimes it makes double letters and double spaces when you hit the screen once. Then when I try to backspace to clear the extra letter or space then it even takes one more character out. So its like that saying take one step forward and two steps back.
                Takes me like twice as long to type something. And some days it works great. So yes my phone is a pain in the you know what too.

                • RidgeRunner Says:

                  LOL! Screen?! I am talking buttons. I carry a flip phone.

                  • Gunfun1 Says:

                    RR
                    I know I had one of those. Then one of the slider phones that have the little key board that slides out. I would always hit about 3 keys at once all the time.

                    So I dont know which one would be worse. All I know is they sure can be a pain in the butt thats for sure.

  • Bradly Says:

    B.B. love all the eye candy here! You’re new Hakim is so nice! I’ve never seen one of those or the Daisy Defender. I do have a question about those Daisy double barrels (I have seen them). Do both barrels fire at once, or do you get two shots in a row? That would be neat to get two shots with one “cock”. Thanks again, Bradly

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Bradly,

      There are two different triggers on the double barreled guns — one for each barrel. So they shoot one barrel at a time. Both barrels cock at the same time, so it’s cock once and shoot twice.

      B.B.

  • JoeB on Orcas Says:

    Tom, Edith is a very reasonable person. You found some great bargains at this show, but your prize bargain was in getting Edith to marry you. Congratulations to you both!

  • RifledDNA Says:

    B.B., when I go big for a pcp, Im looking into FX and Daystate and wondered why pyramyd doesn’t carry these brands, I only see em at AGoA, or their respective websites. PA does have Evanix which is another though. Does anybody have any experience with these? Semi-auto is a huge attraction if Im going to spend 1000+$… like the FX Bobcat, that looks cool, or the Max bullpup from Evanix.

    • RidgeRunner Says:

      I don’t know myself why PA does not carry them, but I would venture to guess it has to do with licensing for one thing. AoA probably bought exclusive import rights.

      Also, have you looked at the price of those things?! Shooting wise, you can get as good or better for less. Now as to the quality of these airguns, I cannot give a good comparison. I have had the occasion to look at a FX Indy bullpup and I thought it looked to be of good quality construction, however I did not have the opportunity to see if it was of that good of quality.

      I would probably have to sell my entire airgun collection to buy a FX or Daystate. It had better be something.

      Just my humble opinion.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      RDNA,

      Why don’t Ford dealers sell Chevys? It’s all about business. RR got it right.

      B.B.

      • RifledDNA Says:

        Wow, I would think super high end airgun makers would want as much exposure as they could get, especially with the most popular sites, no offense to them over there, but aoa looks a little stingy on their site development. Maybe they put their time and money to better things, but it turns me away a little. I don’t feel as confident when there’s rough edges around a website, makes me wonder where there are other edges to be snagged on. I can’t imagine Pyramyd Air not being the top seller of airguns on the web, and would think they would want to be working with these companies, they are exploding in the high end market. A lot of the hunting videos using airguns are with an FX, a big seller for me since that is what I do. If I can happily achieve the same end at half the price, though, then I can see that pyramyd picks up plenty by not carrying these HEAGs, and keeping with companies that provide the same quality and power at reasonable price.

        • Gunfun1 Says:

          RDNA
          I asked that same question in the past about Daystate and FX.

          And I don’t have a Daystate but I have the FX Monsoon. And I will say that it is a well constructed gun and very solid feeling. And they are made in Sweden which I have found to be quality conscious people when they produce something. That’s were the Hydromat machines derived from that we have at work.

          But I will say this if I had to do it all over. The FX Monsoon would of been it if it was the 1 and only air gun I would buy. And it would be probably the gun that would make me sell all the other guns I have. Hmm, what am I saying. I did sell some of my guns to get mine.

          And it now is the gun that took over the position of back door pest control that’s always ready and waiting by the door. It holds 12 pellets in .22 cal. And I don’t have to worry about if the battery is low on charge like other guns you mentioned.

          And if you ever shot any true semi-auto guns there ain’t nothing like popping off rounds as fast as you can pull the trigger. I was shooting yesterday at one of those Caldwell resettable targets that my neighbor gave me. It has 4, one and a half inch targets in a row. And one that’s the same size on top that resets all the bottom ones.

          I had my single shot .25 Marauder, the .177 synthetic stock Marauder and the .22 cal. Monsoon shooting at the resettable target from a bench rest at 50 yards. And all I can say is its nice to aim at the first target shoot and immediately pick up the next target and shoot and so on. My neighbor came over when he heard the Monsoon popping off the metal targets real fast. He thought I was shooting my Winchester 190 .22 cal. rimfire gun the way it was shooting so fast and ringing the metal targets. Well of course he had to give it a try. Same results. So I can say this. the gun is accurate and easy to hold and can make fast back to back shots when needed. Oh yea and its making a little over 30 fpe with 15.89 JSB domes. I suppose that’s enough power to get the job done on those pesky spinner targets anyway. You know. Well and some of the others also. :)

          • RifledDNA Says:

            You got it, that’s what Im looking to hear. Im Swedish too so I think FX will be a winner for me. I just got the pellets, did a penetration/expansion test to go with an accuracy test, rainy crap day here so hopefully tomorrow. I am pleasently surprised the jumbo monsters run perfect in the short barrel gas piston, sound like they are no slower then the 14s, even sounds like a smoother shot cycle. Can’t wait to see the results for accuracy! I would love to see the chrony on those bad boys, if they run as fast as they feel, Im getting some serious power out if this np.

            • Gunfun1 Says:

              RDNA
              Im posting from my phone and never shows how thin the threads getting. So I hope this aint no one liner.

              What was the last pellet you shot that sounded better to you? And how much did it weigh?

              • RifledDNA Says:

                Nope, still got a couple spots left. So I tried to get an accuracy test in but it was wet, the rest setup was terribly uncomfortable and by the time I settled in I had shot all the pellets I brought! I did get a 3/8ths ctc with the benji domes that came with the sample pack, but that was the last pellet I shot and they literally got progressively tighter with each pellet so it was a quick half-butt attempt but good practise anyway. When its nice and I have time to warm up I think we’ll see some really good groups. By the way, I was looking for a 30 pounder, well all ten rws superdomes I shot cracked. That would be at least 30 lbs if the moisture in the air doesn’t lower the velocity necessary which sounds like it might. Anyway, breaking this NPLega-C in has me happier and happier.

        • RidgeRunner Says:

          If you have the change, I would not be afraid to do business with AoA. They are indeed a top shelf company. Like you said, they are not wasting a lot of time and money on making their website blingey. If I can scrape up enough money, I intend to buy a HW from them. PA does not carry the model I want.

          These two companies have different business models. PA is concerned with volume sales. They also are targeting the newbies to airgunning. Those who AoA attract are those who have been popping pellets for some time and are sick of the stuff made by Wang Po Industries and are after the top shelf stuff. Yes, PA does sell some real nice stuff, but you have to know what you are looking for and dig around and find it. PA also has a large inventory where AoA does not. When Uncle Sam wants his share, that can really take a chunk out of the profit margin. The guys at AoA are just a couple of old fogeys like me who have found a way to make a living with what they like to do and they are real good at it. I doubt very seriously they really would like to grow to that point. They have found their niche.

          There goes my humble opinion again.

          • Gunfun1 Says:

            RR
            Your humble opinion sounds dead on to me. I have purchased from AoA also. And they have some nice combo type deals like PA does also.

            When I got the Monsoon from my buddy he only purchased one extra magazine when he got the gun. And they also had a special going on that included a free Hawke 30 mm tube with the big sidewinder AO adjustment wheel with 3-12 power. It is like a 470 dollar scope. So that 1500 dollar Monsoon turned into a 1000 dollar gun if you know what I mean. That would of been around 2000 dollars if the Monsoon would of had to be paid for and the scope purchased separately. Alot of money but still a good deal I guess.

            And back to the magazines. 2 magazines wasn’t going to cut it for me so I ordered 2 more. When my order arrived I only had one magazine. I called them up and told them one was missing and no questions asked they had me one at my door in about 3 days. So that was good. So yes I have no problem at all doing business with AoA.

  • RidgeRunner Says:

    Speaking of other airgun companies, I have had quite an experience dealing with Pilkington Competition the last couple of weeks.

    It started out when I ordered two FWB 300S’s from them a couple of weeks ago. They shipped one out that day and the second a week later.

    They were shipped by OOPS. At this point, you can probably guess what happened. When I received the first one, I opened the almost pristine box and my heart sank. Somehow they managed to bust the stock into several pieces without causing damage to the box. They must have a special school where they train their drivers and handlers on how to do such.

    I called PC the next morning and they were quite apologetic and sent me another stock. Well, when it arrived I discovered it also was broken! I strongly suspect that it was broken before shipment though. It was not as obvious a break and the person who shipped it out may not have noticed it.

    So once again, I called PC up and they sent me another stock out that day. It managed to arrive safe and sound and I hope to put it on sometime this weekend. Just in case you are curious, the other air rifle arrived safe and sound despite OOPS’s best efforts.

    I would not hesitate to do business with Pilkington Competition again. They have demonstrated to me they will go the extra mile. I doubt very seriously they made any profit on that deal, but they were determined I would be a happy customer.

    • RifledDNA Says:

      That’s great, glad they did right by you. Its always nice when businesses remember that WE pay THEM, and don’t treat people like their hard earn money is worthless to them. Case being my gas bill. Store tried ti send it to electric, electric said, obviously, not our account. They told the 3rd party bank to send it to a gas company I don’t have. Nice. That company took the payment knowing the account was not theirs. This was two months ago and after Fetwisting a dozen arms the gas idiots are refunding my money. 3-6 weeks… TO SEND A CHECK? Its just stupidity and negligence and disregard for the customers. But, anyway, yes I’ve seen the prices and am not going to spend that kind of money before going over all the options and whether a airforce or … would be just as good at half the price, but true semi-auto? Sounds fun.

      • RifledDNA Says:

        I don’t know where my phone got fetwisting, it must be aware Id like to perform some kind of star wars finishing move on these gas people, lol.

      • RidgeRunner Says:

        Hey, I love a Maw Deuce. But feeding that thing is right expensive. Even with a pellet popper, it does not take a long time to go through a bunch of lead and air. I don’t know about you guys, but that would be a lot of pumping for me. I doubt I will end up with a compressor and a bunch of tanks and trips to the dive shop are way too expensive to consider.

        Another thing to think about is misses. My experience is that a quick follow up shot usually misses. Single shot or bolt action forces you to slow down and make the first shot count. Less chance of a wounded animal getting away and suffering.

        Yeah, at times it is real fun to rip a stack of cans apart, but other than for plinking, I don’t see much use for those things.

        Once again, that is just my humble opinion.

        • RifledDNA Says:

          Isn’t ripping them cans apart enough use in itself? And I have to agree and disagree about hunting semi auto, the follow up may miss, but how often do the quarry really hang about? When I take that first shot I know exactly where it hit and I can tell if that animal is dropping in one heartbeat or two, if I have three beats before that animal bolts like a bat out of hell then I can be sending lead immediately with a semi. I might have sent three or four follow up shots by just that third heartbeat and the third shot hits him behind the ear…. sounds pretty dramatic right? And fun? Can’t react like that when your fumbling for a pellet.

        • Gunfun1 Says:

          To me the semi-auto even works nice when you do bench rest target shooting. You can keep concentrating on your target. You don’t have to remove your hand to cycle the bolt or load the pellet. Look at the military sniper rifles now days. They are mostly semi-auto. It just makes things simpler and also you have the confidence that you have another round ready.

          Its easier for me to stay on target and you keep your hold the same also. When I was shooting the single shot .25 Marauder and the synthetic stock.177 Marauder with the magazine. Those 2 guns could no kind of way do back to back shots any kind of way as fast as I can with the Monsoon. And yes I was hitting the spinners with all 3 guns but the Monsoon definitely shines for its price. And it should if somebody is paying that much for one.

          But as it goes everybody has different ways that they are use to shooting. Just like some people don’t like to mod and some do. So as its said just my opinion.

          • RifledDNA Says:

            Im pretty sold on a bobcat, I am a carbine/compact rifle guy, the shortest functional length is the tops for me, love to be able to sneak through trees and tuck it close under the arm. Have you seen the wolverine 303? Little bit overkill maybe, and options for pellets are limited I might guess. But it sure did make the fur fly! I like the availability of .22 and that your getting a pretty powerful shot with a flatter trajectory than any bigger. For my ranges its perfect. I didn’t get the 15… but went crazy to the jumbo monsters just to see how it pushed virtually the heaviest pellet I could get, definitely heavier then I’ll ever actually use but knowing it runs something that heavy fast and smooth is a good/comforting thing to know. They gave a perfect horizontal string group though… what does that mean? Heavy long pellet wobbling out of the short barrel?

  • Gunfun1 Says:

    BB
    I forgot. I was going to ask about the El Gamo 300. That does look like the gun that was in that ARH catalog from back in 71 when I was a kid if I’m remembering right. And It had a synthetic stock version available listed right next to it.

    What I always thought that was neat about that company was how you could purchase a accuracy tune for a additional cost. And they had different levels of tunes. And they showed what kind of accuracy to expect from each level of tune.

    I know Dr. Beeman owned the company back then and Jim Maccari now. (I hope I spelled his name right, I’m going off of memory.)

    But they never said exactly what they did to achieve those different level of tunes. I guess I really need to dig that catalog out and check it out again. That was a long time ago for me to try to think I remember something.

    But I wondered if the tune jobs that they talked about for the spring guns consisted of lubing like the other day when you was talking about spring air gun maintenance? Is that part of what they did to achieve a cartian level of accuracy tune?

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      GF1,

      Dr. Beeman owned Air Rifle Headquarters? Never. He was a customer of theirs for awhile, but that is as close as they got.

      If you want to know more, read this:

      http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2010/09/a-brief-history-of-beeman-and-air-rifle-headquarters-part-3/

      B.B.

      • Gunfun1 Says:

        BB
        So that means that 1974 is when Dr. Beeman split ties with ARH. But what year did ARH become a company. Was ARH established yet in the 60′s?

        Now I really want to go look for my catalog. The funny thing about that catalog is I had that catalog in my tool box at work from back in 82 when I started working at the machine shop I’m at. Then I brought it home a few years back. I put it in a box and I cant remember what box for the life of me.

        And what about the tunes they did to the guns. I still wonder what exactly they did?

        • B.B. Pelletier Says:

          GF1,

          Yes. ARH was started in the 1960s. The tunes they did are similar to the lube tunes we do today — special lubes, deburring and little else.Today’s top-end tunes go much farther.

          ARH and Beeman were doing tunes on a production schedule. Beeman also did some better hand-done tunes, but they had to be negotiated one at a time.

          I once owned a 124 made for Mrs, Beeman that had such a tune. It went well beyond anything I have ever done to a 124.

          B.B.

          • Gunfun1 Says:

            BB
            The 124 that was for Mrs. Beeman that you had was there a noticeable difference in the way it shot compared to other 124′s that you have shot.

            I was around 11 years old back then in 71 and I dreamed about getting one of the German springer’s out of the catalog. And then I would sit and figure out how many weeks of grass cutting it was going to take me to get one. And how much more grass cutting I would have to do to get that special tune when I ordered the gun.

            Well it never happened. I ended up buying a .22 cal. Benjamin pump at the local Grandpa Pigeons store. And I never ordered one from ARH.

            And Its just always has been in the back of my mind what one of those special tuned guns was like to shoot. I’m glad I got that Benjamin pump. But I sure wish I would of got one of those tuned springer’s.

            Just think what we could be shooting now days if we could go back in time.

            • B.B. Pelletier Says:

              GF1,

              Mrs. Beeman’s gun, that I dubbed the Queen Bee, shot dead. No vibration, like a modern tune. Also the trigger was adjusted perfectly.

              You can be shooting these fine guns nowadays. All you need to do is buy them.

              B.B.

              • Gunfun1 Says:

                BB
                Well a least I feel better about missing out on the opertunity to own one of those guns of the day.

                And I do like my 54 a lot. And Im really wanting a TX200. And we got the overtime starting to kick in. So maybe I can get one. Will see.

                And I think when you test that El Gamo that it may turn out to be a nice little gun. I guess will see soon enough. :)

                • Gunfun1 Says:

                  I just thought of something. Maybe thats were it came from and it will have that special tune.
                  Just a thought.

  • Gunfun1 Says:

    Mis-spelled in the last sentence. “Is that part of what they did to achieve a cartian level of accuracy tune?

    Should be certain level of tune.

    • RifledDNA Says:

      Nope, still got a couple spots left. So I tried to get an accuracy test in but it was wet, the rest setup was terribly uncomfortable and by the time I settled in I had shot all the pellets I brought! I did get a 3/8ths ctc with the benji domes that came with the sample pack, but that was the last pellet I shot and they literally got progressively tighter with each pellet so it was a quick half-butt attempt but good practise anyway. When its nice and I have time to warm up I think we’ll see some really good groups. By the way, I was looking for a 30 pounder, well all ten rws superdomes I shot cracked. That would be at least 30 lbs if the moisture in the air doesn’t lower the velocity necessary which sounds like it might. Anyway, breaking this NPLega-C in has me happier and happier.

  • Matt61 Says:

    I think you would need a lot of knowledge to take full advantage of these airgun shows, but if you’ve got it, then you’re in the right place.

    Saw Captain America, The Winter Soldier, and it was great. There was even a bit of shooting in the plot with a mysterious bullet lacking all rifling marks so that it cannot be traced. How, they got the bullet to go straight was never explained. Anyway, just as we live in the Golden Age of airguns, it could be that we are also living in the Golden Age of superheros. No longer do we have to rely on the crudely (though evocatively drawn) cartoons of previous years. With cgi and other special effects, characters on the screen really look like superheroes and do everything they are supposed to do in a realistic way. It’s a great film!

    Matt61

    • RifledDNA Says:

      I just saw the newest Superman and Iron Man 3, Iron Man was hilarious, the big budget comic book movies are really getting cool, special fx and all, remember the first batman movies? They are ancient history to the new crop of super hero movies.

    • Wulfraed Says:

      Any sabot type round will lack rifling marks… The sabot will fall off just past the muzzle.

    • Pop’s SLR Says:

      I have been thinking about that…I cannot imagine anything more rare than a modern powder burner with no rifling in the barrel. It would make it incredibly traceable. A calling card actually. But…it sure sounds cool.

      The movie was great.

  • RifledDNA Says:

    Nope, still got a couple spots left. So I tried to get an accuracy test in but it was wet, the rest setup was terribly uncomfortable and by the time I settled in I had shot all the pellets I brought! I did get a 3/8ths ctc with the benji domes that came with the sample pack, but that was the last pellet I shot and they literally got progressively tighter with each pellet so it was a quick half-butt attempt but good practise anyway. When its nice and I have time to warm up I think we’ll see some really good groups. By the way, I was looking for a 30 pounder, well all ten rws superdomes I shot cracked. That would be at least 30 lbs if the moisture in the air doesn’t lower the velocity necessary which sounds like it might. Anyway, breaking this NPLega-C in has me happier and happier.

  • RifledDNA Says:

    Ok, lets try this again… gunfun, tried to do an accuracy test but it was wet and the rest I jimmy rigged was terribly uncomfortable, by the time I got settled in I had shot all the pellets Id brought. That and the groups got progressively better with each pellet since I didn’t work up. But the last group with the benji sampler domes shot a 3/8ths ctc… not too shabby, liking the NPLega-C better and better as I get to shootin, when its nice I’ll redo the test and warm up first. I Will say this, the rws superdomes cracked all ten shots, I don’t know if the moisture in the are makes that happen at lower velocity, but if 1000-1100fps still that means In getting at least 30 lbs with that pellet… this thing is a hammer!

    • Gunfun1 Says:

      RDNA
      Looks like your having the posting problems like I have sometimes.

      But yep sounds like its shooting pretty good if its going that fast with a 14 grn pellet. And I was wondering if you had any of the JSB 15.89 grn. dome pellets in the bunch you tryed. I have had good luck with them in multiple guns I shot them out of. And maybe they will get you back down in the 900 fps range where the pellet would be more stable and you will still retain your knock down energy.

      And I put up 2×4′s that are about 10″ tall out about 25 yards to check how different pellets penetrate. Whats funny how the same pellet that weighs the same grains and has the same shape will penetrate different when you try different brands. Some are hard and some are softer. So that’s another thing to think about when your trying to find a pellet for hunting. The hard one could over penetrate and the soft one may mushroom to much and not penetrate enough even though both weigh the same and are shooting at the same fps. Again don’t you just love theses airguns.

      • RifledDNA Says:

        My reply is above since I accidentally posted the same thing 3-4 times.. lol. Yeah the phones have problems on the cloudy rainy days more often than not. It always seems its the weather when things aren’t posting.

        • Gunfun1 Says:

          RDNA
          I just posted here.

          There has been conversation before about horizontal strings. And there are multiple opinions of why it happens.

          I think it is caused from the trigger hand. I belive that you have to get your grip peasure right to over come the pull preasure on the trigger. Again my opinion by what I experianced when had that going on.

          Thats one of the reasons why a semi auto is nice. You get your grip right and you dont have to change your hold. You should be more consistant when you shoot your group.

  • robert w. Says:

    want to attend just an air gun show, but looks like you hit the mother lode bb.all the gun shows I attend are pb shows with a few air guns in hard to find places

  • Joe Says:

    BB,
    In one you’re your recent articles you were asked by representatives from the European airgun industries, “where are all the American airgunners?” Your reply was that just because you don’t see them, that doesn’t mean they don’t exist. You went on to inform them that most American airgunners don’t shoot competitively in matches or join a club, and that they do most of their air gun shootings in the privacy of their home, in their basements and backyards. Now that those European representatives know that, how come they don’t built airguns that are quiet like the Benjamin Marauder???? Most airgunner shoots in their backyard thus needs an air gun that shoot very quiet.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Joe,

      It took the American automobile industry several decades to change their thinking and build the cars their customers wanted. What makes you think European airgun makers are any different?

      B.B.

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