Airgun lubrication — gas guns

by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier

Airgun lubrication — spring guns: Part 1
Airgun lubrication — spring guns: Part 2

This report addresses:

• Molecules versus atoms
• Crosman Pellgunoil
• Can’t over-oil with Pellgunoil
• “Fixing” leaking guns with Pellgunoil
• Transmission stop leak oil
• Oiling moving parts
• Ballistol

Let’s look at lubricating gas guns — and by “gas,” I mean CO2. What I’m about to say will also work on airsoft guns that operate on green and red gas, because both those gasses work similar to CO2; but there are no pellet or steel BB guns that run on any gas except CO2 (excluding air).

CO2 is a molecule — not an atom!
Many folks thought that high school science class was a waste, but in the curriculum there were things that matter to airgunners. How levers work is one of the most important things, and yet I still see youngsters grabbing breakbarrel rifles five inches back from the muzzle — as though the length of a lever has no significance! The fact that CO2 is a compound made of molecules is also important.

Atoms are very small. When they’re inside a pressure vessel (air is made of several elements that are atoms), they try to escape through the smallest holes imaginable — sometimes through pinholes in the casting of the metal. Molecules are combinations of atoms that are much larger than atoms, by definition. They also try to escape, but they need larger holes to get through. This fact is what saves the CO2 airgunner, and it’s also why CO2 guns can be made with larger tolerances. That makes them cheaper to build.

Crosman Pellgunoil is our friend
When I started seriously shooting airguns in the early 1990s, nobody talked about Crosman Pellgunoil. I didn’t even know if it did anything. Then, I met Rick Willnecker, the man who runs Precision Pellet — one of the top repair stations for vintage CO2 and pneumatic airguns. Rick always had a jumbo bottle of Pellgunoil on his workbench, and he applied it liberally to valves, seals and o-rings whenever he assembled a CO2 gun. He told me that I should always put a drop of Pellgunoil on the tip of every new CO2 cartridge before it was pierced.

You cannot over-oil with Pellgunoil
I asked Rick how much oil was too much. He said it is impossible to over-oil a CO2 gun with Pellgunoil. Apply it liberally. What doesn’t stay inside the gun gets blown out the muzzle. This was all news to me. I’d grown up with the bottlecap CO2 cartridges of the 1950s that leaked before you even put them in your airgun, and I thought CO2 was a gas that was totally unreliable. Rick’s revelation turned this around. I discovered CO2 is a very reliable gas if you use Pellgunoil.

bottlecap CO2 cartridge
In the 1950s and ’60s, Crosman was capping their CO2 Powerlets with bottlecaps that leaked a lot.

But the discoveries didn’t stop there. Soon after learning about the benefits of Pellgunoil, I bought a Crosman model 111 target pistol at a flea market for $35. It was in the original box and came with the original 10-oz. CO2 tank that Crosman sold with the gun back in the early 1950s. I bought this gun thinking it would have to be resealed. It’s seller told me it had laid in a closet for a minimum of 20 years before she brought it to this flea market, so how in the world could it possibly have any gas left in it?

Crosman 116 pistol and bulk tank
This .22-caliber Crosman 116 bulk-fill CO2 pistol and tank were sold up until the model 150 came out in 1956.

Well, that gun was still charged! What is even more important was the 10-oz. CO2 tank that came with it was also mostly full, so I was able to connect it to the pistol and charge it many times — for another 50 shots each time. Each time I charged the pistol, I applied more Pellgunoil, and that old pistol kept right on functioning for almost 2 years. When the seals finally did need to be renewed, I took the gun to Rick Willnecker, and he got me started in bulk-filling CO2 guns. I bought my first 20-lb. CO2 tank and the adapter to connect it to the 10-oz. Crosman tank, and I was off to the races. Since that time, I have owned five 20-lb. CO2 tanks and have been filling my own bulk tanks at home for more than 15 years. Where a CO2 cartridge costs about 50 cents, I pay about 5 cents for the same amount of gas!

But it didn’t end there, either. I discovered on my own that by using copious amounts of Pellgunoil, I could get non-functioning CO2 guns to work again. That’s when I started buying up old Crosman gas guns that were leakers and “rejuvenating” them with Pellgunoil. I still own a Crosman 180 rifle that I bought for $20. It has been holding gas for about 20 years so far!

Transmission stop leak oil
Dennis Quackenbush taught me this trick. He said he “fixed” a leaking Crosman 112 bulk-fill pistol with transmission stop leak oil — the stuff you get at the auto parts store. I had a Crosman 116 bulk-fill pistol that was a fast leaker, so I thought I would give it a try. I put several drops of this oil in the fill port connection of the pistol and filled it with CO2. That was about 2-1/2 years ago and that gun is still holding gas today!

transmission stop leak
Transmission stop leak oil (this is just one brand…there are several others) will swell and make supple the seals inside an older CO2 gun.

Several people wrote comments telling me that this oil would turn the seals in my airgun to mush and it would be an even bigger leaker than before; but as I said, 30 months have passed and that gun is still holding gas. So is Dennis’ gun. This stuff seems to work.

Oiling the moving parts of the gun
You can oil the moving parts of a gas gun with any good brand of gun oil, and I even use household oil (yes, 3-in-One brand) on mine. If you want to buy a good oil from Pyramyd Air, I have used Gamo Air Gun Oil for many years for this purpose. All you’re doing is providing simple lubrication, and oil is correct for that.

Ballistol
Finally, you can wipe down the gun — wood, metal and plastic — with Ballistol. Ballistol removes rust, protects against fingerprint acids, lubricates and generally is the single best lubricant for an airgun or firearm.

89 thoughts on “Airgun lubrication — gas guns

  1. One quick correction, both the nitrogen and oxygen that make up 99% of the atmosphere are diatomic molecules. I teach a mnemonic for remembering which elements are diatomic at standard conditions to my chemistry students: Have No Fear Of Ice Cold Beer, for Hydrogen, Nitrogen, Fluorine, Oxygen, Iodine, Chlorine, and Bromine. This works great in Wisconsin, home of ice, cold, and ice cold beer.



      • CO2 is larger than O2, since it contains also contains two oxygen atoms plus a carbon atom in the middle. H2 is the smallest molecule that can exist since Hydrogen is the smallest atom.

        Here is a chart of atomic radii:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_radius#Empirically_measured_atomic_radii

        Chlorine is larger than Carbon and if we ignored how the atoms are bonded the size of CO2 and Cl2 would be the same.

        We cannot really ignore how they bond, since they can sort of overlap:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Waals_radius

        I could continue, but this will get complicated and boring. In short there is no hard and fast rule about CO2 being larger than diatomic molecules.


      • CO2 is larger than O2, since it contains also contains two oxygen atoms plus a carbon atom in the middle. H2 is the smallest molecule that can exist since Hydrogen is the smallest atom.


        • No such fast and loose rule can be made about CO2 being larger than diatomic molecules, since Cl2 and Br2 would be the same size and larger respectively. This ignored bonding distances and vander walls radii. Which I could link an explanation too, but this comment system is not allowing me to do so.


      • Well BB, you asked the question and I decided to drop everything and surf over to a periodic table to see if I still remembered how to calculate this stuff. The CO2 molecule has an atomic weith of 34.01 and a calculated radius of 163 picometers or picometres, which is 1 trillionth of a meter. I added the radius’ together of carbon and oxygen gas which may not be entirely correct. Oxygen gas’ atomic weight is 32 and radius of 96 pm while nitrogen gas is 28 and radius of 112 pm. I guess the winner is still CO2 as you suspected.

        I will now wait for Herb, the good Dr. Ramsey, Wilfraued and perhaps BG Farmer to weigh in here (pun intended) and correct me if I’m wrong. It sure would be nice if Pete Z were well enough to comment. I miss his contributions.

        Fred DPRoNJ



        • Well, can’t resist now… :-)

          ————
          This has been well covered so far. Who says you can’t teach an old dog new tricks. Me thinks we taught BB something today. Got to admire someone who strives to learn….

          ———-
          Once small point about weirdness of CO2. “Enough” pressure and it converts to a liquid of course. The liquid contains a lot more molecules per unit volume than the gas. “Enough” in this care being a reasonable low pressure that can safely be reached, and at room temperature.

          Oxygen and nitrogen won’t do this at room temperature. You can get liquid oxygen and nitrogen but they are cryogenic liquids.

          ——
          The other thing is that the atmosphere contains small amounts of argon which is a noble gas – it exists as a single atom. Any helium that gets released boils off atmosphere into space.


        • Good job,Fred! -And B.B. How awesome Is it to risk thinking “outside the box” and challenge naysayers, only to emerge victorious?!
          Kudos to both of you,for sharing this valuable knowledge, regardless of the challenge of presenting these bits of wisdom,and open mindedness!

          Back in grey

          Reb



  2. I can attest to the therapeutic properties of Pellgun Oil, having saved more than one QB78 by application of some drops and then leaving to soak in. A question though, is it not basically the same as transmission oil?


  3. B.B.,

    I noticed something new (to me, at least) on the Pyramyd Air website: ASG Ultrair 12-Gram CO2 Lubrication Cartridges. The description says, “Each cartridge contains 0.80 grams of silicone oil.”

    I know ASG is an airsoft maker (“green gas has a bit of lubricant in it), but they have entered the CO2 BB gun market big time recently.

    What are your thoughts about silicone in a CO2 gun?

    Specifically, the thought of an Umarex Fusion CO2 rifle with a couple of these every now and then crossed my mind, as their seals are fragile.

    I am thinking of getting one.

    Michael



      • B.B.,

        I will buy one, and I do think I’ll like it. And here’s the best thing: It uses 12 GRAM carts instead of 88/90 gram carts!

        CO2 is cheapest through bulk fill, of course, but 90 gram disposable carts are twice as expensive, gram for gram, as 12 gram carts. It is a myth that they are cheaper.

        500 Crosman 12 gram carts through Pyramydair amounts to 3.5 cents per gram of CO2. 24 Air Venturi 90 gram carts amount to 7.8 cents per gram of CO2. Yes, the convenience, but at more than twice the cost? And with the added weight?

        I have both a 2×12 gram Walther Lever Action and a newer 90 gram one, and I MUCH prefer the older. It balances better, it looks better — it IS better. And the charging process has never been an issue for me.

        Just my, ah 3.5 cents,

        Michael


      • What do you think about using a bulk CO2 tank to refill 88 g CO2 cylinders that have been fitted with a check valve? Have you ever done this? I got a check valve for the 88 g cylinders from Bryan and Associates over the internet. I don’t yet have a bulk CO2 tank because I am not sure where to get one locally and whether or not to buy or rent the bulk tank. I read some reports on some forums that the refill process doesn’t work very well. Because of that I may not even try it. What do you think?


        • I am not familiar with an adapter with a check valve that allows the refilling of 88/90 gram cartidges, essentially turning them into 3 ounce bulk-fill tanks. If there is one out there, and if the thing will still fit in the three 90 gram using airguns I own (doubtful for the newer Walther Lever Action and Crosman Nightstalker, a maybe for my 850), then I’d buy one.

          There have long been a few different adapters on the market that allow the use of these disposable 90 gram carts into bulk-fill guns, and using bulk-fill tanks (presumably small ones like old steel 9 ouncers) in place of the 90 gram disposables in guns like the EBOS and Hammerli/Walther/Umarex 850.

          As for buying bulk fill CO2 gear, keep in mind that while the gas itself is cheapest that way, probably through a beverage service company, the equipment (tanks, adapters, fittings, gauges, scales for weighing the tanks, etc.) can get pricey. The only way that you end up saving money vs. using 12 gram powerlets (at under 4 cents a gram about half the cost of 90 gram cartridges, which are almost 8 cents an ounce) by going bulk fill is if you go through a LOT of CO2 over a long haul. Like HPA, CO2 tanks must be hydro tested every five years (except for no longer made steel alloy tanks that are less than two feet long and less than two inches in diameter, which never need testing).

          Hydro testing for 12, 20, and 24 ounce tanks is more expensive than a new tank. If you bought a 20 pound tank, then hydros would probably be cost effective. So, if you are a casual hobbyist, not a major CO2 user, bulk fill might not pay for itself.

          Michael


          • Michael,

            I think you are right about bulk fill not being cost effective because most weekends I may get two to three hours of shooting time on either Saturday or Sunday. With Spring here I may get less because of lawn and garden chores. I’m not using enough CO2, especially the 88 / 90 g cylinders, to make the bulk fill pay for itself. My plan was to find a way to gain some flexibility in the use of the rifles that were made for the 88 / 90 g CO2. I want to be able to use part of the 88 / 90 g cylinder then take it out without losing the rest of the CO2. When I bought the Hammerli 850 rifle, I also bought the 850 2×12 g CO2 adapter accessory. I really like that 850 2×12 g adapter because it gives me enough shots for about 2 hours of shooting which fits my schedule very well. I think I spent about 5 hours consuming the first 90 g Air Venturi CO2 cylinder in the 850 rifle. I don’t have that much time for shooting very often. I just got the 88 / 90 g CO2 version of the Walther Lever Action rifle and would very much like to buy a 2×12 g CO2 adapter accessory for it. Unfortunately Umarex does not sell those adapters in the U.S. any more. The 850 adapter does work in the Walther rifle, but it is too long for the rifle stock and prevents the re-attachment of the butt pad. Pyramyd Air posted my picture of the rifle with the 850 adapter showing that it is too long. Here’s the link.

            http://www.pyramydair.com/customer-product-images/m/Walther_Lever_Action_CO2_Rifle_Black/2445



  4. Haha, I guilty of grabbing my breakbarrels 5″ back, but I have to, the first 5″ always go missing! And that seems to have really worked for the NP, I was telling Gunfun its spitting rws superdomes over the sound barrier, everytime… I asked him if he thought the moisture in the air would lower the sound barrier? If the air is thicker and wet, would it slap back together different? Like when you shoot into water, it loudly smacks, would the water in the air smack, but not truly be the cracking of the s.b.?


    • RDNA
      I remember you asking about that and I think we started talking about something else.

      There might be a easy way to find out about the moisture in the air and the crack. Shoot your gun with the same pellet on a day that is opposite of the moist day and see if you still get the crack. If so then the moisture has nothing to do with it. I ain’t no scientist so I can’t answer you with a technical answer. But I bet what I described will give you a answer. :)


      • Yeah I wish it were nice out to find out, another crummy rainin’ day… might be good to do another shooting test to have more rainy day examples, if they crack today but not on s dry day there will be more data to compare against. I found a camera tri-pod to use as a rest out in the woods, I’ll be able to set myself up comfortably instead of trying to get comfortablearound something that wasn’t working. I’ve always shot off-hand will in the field hunting but trying for groups and an accuracy test id a totally different thing. That and ordering ammo now means benchrested groups are needed to find the best pellet, where as I used to just go with what was available for .22 (cphp) but .177 there’s a few more options.


      • It’s another crummy raining day again here, but that might be a good time to go see if they all crack again, then when its dry and I test again I’ll have more data to compare to.


        • RDNA,

          When your postings hit the spam folder, it doesn’t help to repeatedly try to repost your message. It just takes me that much longer to go thru them & figure out if they’re all the same text or if they’re different postings and all have to be approved. If there’s just one, I can figure it out in a few seconds & immediately approve it.

          Tom and I stay vigilant and will find your comment and approve it within a short period of time. Even at night, we monitor the blog to make sure everything is fine.

          We’ve been inundated with spam recently, so you’ve inadvertently said something that a spammer once said — and the filter got you.

          Edith


          • Sorry, I’ll keep that in mind. It used to happen all the time and if I tried again it would work so I always figured it was my phone. Darned spammers, don’t they know berading people with advertising is the absolute best way to NOT sell a product?


          • As someone who was guilty of this earlier today, there is no way to know you ended up in SPAM vs the website just not working.

            A message that says something like “Your post appears like it might be spam, please let us review before posting again” would be very helpful.



              • Unfortunately, such an idea is just going to provide “training material” for the spammers on how to create posts that won’t be rejected as spam.


                • Wulfraed,

                  We get spam based on what we discuss in our comments and in the blog. If we get off on a tangent of cars, car oil, transmission fluid and other car-related items, we soon get spam comments about car-related things. When we have a lot of comments about motorcycles, we get spams related to that subject. No matter what, they seem to find us :-)

                  Edith


                  • But why give them hints on how to pass any automated spam filter by announcing that the message is being held for review…


          • Edith,I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to you,personally, for what I believe may have been a Fiasco involving myself and the loss of a very important filter, along with all those brain cells.
            i keep having bad dreams about a lotta frustration and maybe even unacceptable language.
            I hope it’s justa bad dream-but just in case, I’m sorry

            Reb


      • Science, Gunfun, is all about experimenting and document the results. Pretty much what you suggested. They just couch it in multi sylable words,, or dead languages,, to make it sound ” SPAYSHUL”.
        Ed


      • Air is definitely more dense with H20 molecules suspended in it. This would also encourage more interaction between molecules and atoms that makeup the air we and our guns breathe. However, It would also mean a higher compression rate.This would be an interesting subject for analysis and experimentation! What’s the sweet spot for air saturation? And does this change with different powerplants,or even individual guns? I’m sure discussion of this topic would add many more,also, interesting questions.
        This should be a blast!Thanks!

        Reb


        • RE: “Air is definitely more dense with H20 molecules suspended in it.”

          Actually the opposite is true. Humid air is less dense than dry air. Of course fog is more dense because most of the water is liquid.

          The other thing to consider here is that the absolute amount of water than can be in the gaseous state decreases as the pressure increases. That is why water collects in a typical air compressor tank.


          • Herb, Huh?-Wet air is lighter than dry air? Please explain. Although I believe what you say to be consistent for steam. Steam has the added benefit of being heated, therefore reducing the compression of said mixture.
            Or maybe I’m still suffering from the cobwebs of a blown head gasket.

            Reb


      • So I just got back from a wet adventure, went out in the pouring rain to shoot and had a heck of a time! They were still crackin’ good, only brought the superdomes. After ringing a pan stuck in the ground at about a hundred boots, (13″) to get centered i then went the other way to a big old soup can that was already out there. After hitting three dead center, I sighted on a mushroom on a tree that was 35 boots past that. To go with the “first shot counts” hunting style, I took one shot at it. Dead center, high by a quarter inch in what would be the dome top, perfect shroomy headshot! The target was an inch and a quarter tall and 2″ wide… 135 boots is 140 feet, +6″ for gaps, that’s 47 yards. I packed it up after that a happy camper.


        • RDNA
          Was you using that camera tripod as a support. Or was you shooting free hand.

          If no support you can shoot a break barrel better than me. Or Im getting to commfortable with my pcp guns. I seem to need to be resting against a tree if Im shooting a break barrel in the woods. I can shoot the pcp guns un supported for the most part. Dont ask me why.


          • I was kneeling with the tripod, but I didn’t readjust the legs from the can shooting so the legs were way out together like 3-4′ in front of me and I held that and the gun together just forward of the trigger guard. Swaying a lot. I kinda let it sway most of the time and use the trigger pull to stop the sway on target. Probably not the best for real consistency, but when cheap springers with hard triggers are your bread and butter you learn to adapt. Finally doing effective tunes has made a world of difference with the guns, but my techniques are long used with these types of AGs and seem to work well enough. A guy from Tennessee wanted squirrel for pie his wife makes and was ecstatic I ate em too, said he was craving em for years and hadnt met anyone else that did. I gave him 7 or 8 in a couple weeks time last summer. Must of had me a dozen more that I had. Only have gotten one so far this year, they must be on to me.. lol.


            • RDNA
              Them little critters are fast learners thats for sure.

              And I love eating them. We boil them with some whole white onions and whole cloves of garlic with some salt also.

              After the meat starts falling of the bone I let the meat sit in the Fridgerator for a couple hours in a beer batter I make.

              Then we deep fry them after we bread them with some Andy’s fish breading. We tryed the other breadings they have but like the one for fish best. We use the batter and the breading for blue gill and crapie allso.

              Man my mouth is watering now!


  5. hello mr bb
    I was just wondering if you could maybe do a test on how some if the alternates oils suggested by the forums compare to specially designed ones ue: 30wt motor oil, silicone shock oil, transmission fluid etc
    thanking you


    • Hello,

      I have heard that ATF works well, and I don’t see why it wouldn’t. I do know that Crosman Pellgunoil is 20-wiight oil with an o-ring preservative added in.

      Thirty-weight motor oil is okay as long as it has no detergents.

      Silicone shock oil I have no information on.

      B.B.


  6. I’m not a CO2 airgun guy.

    Had a friend with a leaking Crosman 38T. He brought it over last summer asking for my help since he knew I shoot airguns.

    I remembered B.B.’s advice on pellgunoil. I must have used half the tube of pellgunoil and 8 or 9 CO2 cartridges but the gun slowly sealed itself up. He thought I was brilliant. Next time I’ll try the stop leak.

    Always good tips on this blog.

    kevin


  7. BB,
    Thanks for the article.
    Can I apply Transmission stop leak oil to a single stroke pneumatic airgun, such as on the piston seals where it will get blown into the valve and all the other internal seals?


  8. BB,
    I was told that the piston design of the the FWB 300 is unique among steel spring powered air guns, mainly because it has steel rings in lieu of leather or rubber seals (a lot like a car engine pistons). FWB claims that their piston rings can last over 100,000 shots. Did you ever do an article on this? I would like to learn more about it, and about its pros and cons.


    • Joe,
      I do not know if this is so or not, but I am about to find out. I recently bought two FWB 300′s and I hope to have time to disassemble them this weekend and put new seals in them.

      As far as the steel rings on the piston, I have no idea. What I can tell you is the compression chamber has a seal that mates with the breach of the barrel and the piston has a seal that goes on the end of it.

      I will let you know what I find inside.


      • RidgeRunner,
        Look forward to you findings. I did shot a new FWB 300S (newer version of the 300) once, and the firing behavior is very very smooth, more so than any well tune spring air rifle I ever shoot, thanks.


    • Joe,

      I have never done an article on FWB 300 seals, but they aren’t unique. Webley rifles and pistols were using piston rings back in the 1920s. But it doesn’t appear that I have disassembled it and taken pictures.

      B.B.


  9. BB
    transmission fluid may very well be similar to pellgun oil as I don’t know the actual make up of pellgun oil, but trans oil is a very high detergent oil in order to keep the internals of the trans clean and prevent the sticking of the valves in the valve body from build up of sludge and particle of the friction material of the clutch plates in the trans. The black thick film covering the bottom of the trans pan that you see when you pull the pan off to service the filter and change the fluid is the clutch material that has worn off from the clutches and would cause the shift valves to stick if not cleaned away by the high detergents in the oil. So I know that ATF does work in airguns to aid in sealing because as a 10 year old with a crosman pumper I never new if there was pellgun oil at that time or not, but my dads ATF he kept in the garage for our cars also made it into my pumper and 45 years later it is still working like new. As for Dennis discovering the trick of trans stop leak reviving old hard and worn seals in air guns I can say that it will definitely soften and swell the seal and bring the guns back to life and likely last for years as the O-rings and seals in pellet guns do not get subjected to as much heat and rotational movement as in a auto trans because I do know from 40+ years of auto mechanic experience that putting trans stop leak in a auto trans is nothing but a very short lived remedy because it does in fact soften and swell the seals but due to the heat and seals having parts rotating on those seals at speeds up to 5000 rpm the seals will stop the leaks for 2 maybe 3000 miles and then the seals wear out three times as fast due to the softening and swelling from the stop leak and you end up with what was a slow annoying leak to a gushing leak that is three time as big as it was before the stop leak was installed. So in short in does work for air guns, but is not a good cure for leaking trans as it just creates a bigger issue that requires immediate attention to prevent the trans from failing completely. Also 30 motor oil is mostly a non detergent blend of oil as compared to multi weight auto oils which have a good amount detergents to also help with sludge build up, I remember back in the 70 all bad publicity that Quaker state got about their oil causing heavy sludge build up in engines if not changed every 3000 miles as I tore down many a Quaker state lubricated engine that was full of sludge from extended oil change intervals. One especially due to the fact that when I removed the intake and rocker covers I had to get a 5 gallon bucket and scooped out enough tar like sludge from under the intake and top of heads to fill that bucket 2/3 full of sludge. That issue is not a problem any more due advances in technology and the industry getting away from paraffin based oils.
    Mike


    • Pellgun oil is also very high detergency oil.
      It’s diesel motoroil meant for engines used in tug boats and similar applications made by monolec if I remember right.
      You can find the spec sheet on Crosman website.

      J-F


    • Mike,

      OT…

      You too, huh? In the mid eighties I tore down an average of 8 engines per day for rebuild. I always asked the people I got them from what they used for oil and if they used STP. Almost all of the engines that had piles of sludge were running either Quaker State or Pennzoil. Some were running STP for long periods of time. Not too surprising since Pennzoil and Quaker State both were made from Pennsylvania crude with has a really high paraffin base. Great stuff at the time for a racing engine that is rebuilt every 500 miles or so, but not the family car. Before that experience I ran both QS and Pennz in my cars. After that I switched to Valvoline for a while, and then switched to Mobile 1 after it was STC’d for use in general aviation aircraft and never looked back. I still change oil every 5K and get 200+K miles on an engine with it and they still show no signs of getting weak!

      Back on topic…. By transmission oil you mean Dextron III, the red stuff?

      /Dave


      • Yea Dexron III or motorcraft trans fluids for pre 2000 model year cars. I change my motor oil in my cars every 3000 miles religiously and every 1500 miles on my motorcycles, oil is the life blood of a engine. I just bring myself to go to even 5000 miles as I feel it is cheap insurance to make an engine last. Its the old saying pay me know or pay me later. The GM trans fluid for 2000 and up cars is really no different other than GM saying it will last 100,000miles which is a load of crap. Ford since 2005 does not even have a dipstick to check the level in the mustangs, never was a ford fan except for the 64-67 Shelby AC 500 cobras which is my dream car that if I could own any car ever made it would be the 67 AC 500 cobra. My buddies 05 mustang has no dipstick and does not require a fluid change ever LOL. In all my years as a mechanic and numerous GM service schools the normal life span of any ATF fluid is 15,000 mile period I don’t care what or how you drive if you want your vehicle to last well in excess of 2 to 300,000 miles. I like you Dave have a Nissan with 230,000 miles on it and never any problems other than wear items and would not hesitate to take across country trip today in it. I change trans fluid every 15,000 miles and in 40 years of driving have never had a trans fail on me.


        • Very interesting info here! I like this.

          I guess you never owned a 1986 Ford Taurus. That tranny on my car failed with a “bang” at 71,000 miles. Wasn’t the fluid but a nylon gear that couldn’t take the stress, so I’m told. Then there was the tranny in a brand new Dodge Durango that stopped shifting and my wife never noticed. I was wondering why the engine was turning 4500 rpm at 35 mph. Solenoid pack.

          Fred DPRoNJ


  10. Dave
    back then I used Kendall motor oil only because the shop I work at used it and we had a couple engine rebuilds that went south in a few hundred mile and Kendall had a program that they would analyze your oil samples and if they found that it failed due to their oil they would pay for the new rebuild. The two engines that spun bearings shortly after the rebuilds had oil that Kendall stated had excess levels of silicates and copper in that batch and therefore they covered all costs involved in the rebuilds of those two engines and also the area rep would always give the mechanics free tickets to the 12 hours of Sebring and 24 hours of Daytona which was my kind of racing. Long distance endurance racing, speed up slow down turn right and left and race rain or shine day or night. Nascar is not what it used to be back when you could actually buy just about the same car that they raced with.


    • Mike,

      Kendall is good stuff too! Amazing support for their product! You don’t find that much these days… I went with Mobile 1 because if the FAA trusts it enough to type certificate it for use in aircraft, it must be good enough for my cars. I see that they are stretching that out to 7.5K and beyond, but I don’t go any more than 5K between changes on my cars and about 2K on my bike. I guess if someone wanted to go 100K they’d pay the price. I don’t even do that on gear oils…

      /Dave


  11. Fred
    I never owned any ford although my dad was a die hard ford owner until I started working as a mechanic, first at a independent shop then to a GM dealership and he only switched then to GM cause I could get him a discount on a new Oldsmobile. I do remember when he bought his first 64 and 1/2 mustang new there was a AC cobra sitting on a pedestal in the showroom and being 8 years old I tried to get him to by the cobra as it was only 10,000 dollars ( the mustang sold for 2800 at the time) and the cobra was only a two seater, but if he would have bought it and I still had it today it would be worth well in excess of a million dollars easily. If we only knew and it was the 289 version not the 427 model.


    • buldawg76
      Whats up. Haven’t seen you post anything in a while.

      But you was talking about Nascar and how in the old days a normal everyday person could go by a car from the dealership that was pretty close to the cars they were racing.

      Well that’s why I got into the muscle cars when we where kids. Back in the mid 70′s and up. Everybody back then. I’m talking kids and adults had some kind of everyday car that resembled the cars the big boys were drag racing around the country. And it seemed that almost every stop sign or traffic light was a mini drag strip. Man the story’s I could tell about the races I seen.

      And I had all different makes and models of muscle cars through out time. I lost count of how many I had. And they all made it to the drag strip with out a doubt when I had them. But I will have to say this. Oldsmobile was my favorite. Had a Canadian built 68 442 with a bench seat 4spd. with the black vertical stripes on the front fenders behind the tire. And it had the red front fender wells and the ram air option with the 2 scoops under the front bumper. Wood spoke steering wheel. And it was a documented 455 car.

      But all through time I always used Valvoline standard motor oil. But now I use nothing but synthetic. And I had a 72 Cutlass that I built a bored and stroked 455 for back in around 1982 and put standard Valvoline in it. My buddy has that car still today after I sold it to him back in around 1990. He has drag raced it through the years but not on a regular bases and cruises the car all the time. But we pulled the valve covers off of it a while back to run the valves. Yep run the valves. I converted it to a solid lifter Mondello camshaft with adjustable rocker arms from a big block Chevy. But the engine has close to 90,000 miles on it now and it was clean as a whistle when the valve covers came off.

      So I would say using the right oil is definitely something that needs to be thought about no matter what your doing.


  12. Its good to know that pellgun oil is the same as good ole ATF cause I got three or four gallons of it in the garage that should last me awhile on my pellet guns huh.


    • Not quite.

      Apparently PellGunOil is based on a lubrication oil.

      ATF is not only lubrication, but also a hydraulic fluid — as (at least, pre-all electronic controls) automatic transmission shifting (and clutch activation) was based upon hydraulic pressure valving. It also needs to be very low foaming as the torque converter has lots of shear forces until the input/output sides approach equilibrium (Lock-up Torque converters then latch, so the fluid is not being used to drive the two sides).


      • Wulfraed
        You are correct that ATF is a lubricating fluid as well as a hydraulic fluid. but is does not matter whether it is pre electronic controls or not as the electronic controls are only electric solenoids that control the flow of the fluid to move valves in the valve body just the same as if they were controlled by the governor and throttle valve cable connected to the linkage on the carb or throttle body. The ATF still serves as a lubricant and hydraulic fluid regardless of system used to control shifting. Yes it has anti foaming additives also as well as heat dissipating additives due to the heat build up in the torque converter during the torque multiplication of the converter until the converter clutch locks up which came out in GM vehicles in the 82-83 model years and was controlled by basically the same type of electric solenoids that are used to control the movement of valves in the valve body of today’s electronic transmissions. The main reason for the switch to electronic controls was to meet the feds demand for more fuel efficient and cleaner emission standards. The computers can control shift points and converter lockup much more precisely and accurately than the old governor and throttle valve systems could. it I believe is still a good substitute for crosman pell gun oil. So yes it does serve to purposes in trannys .
        mike


  13. To finish out my report, Derrick successfully repaired my Daisy 747. The interesting theory about porous casting apparently was not the cause of the problems with the cocking lever swinging open. That was due to the air adjustment cylinder lacking sufficient friction to stay in place and “walking” over time. Derrick fixed it with some combination of loctite and tape, and that cocking lever is solid as a rock. Thanks, Derrick.

    Ballistol is great stuff and one of my greatest discoveries from the blog. Not only does it make maintenance of airguns easy but it does so for firearms as well. If I remember, Ballistol was invented by the German army and used for both World Wars. That is quite a testament, but it does raise an interesting points. Reports from the Eastern Front say that the German guns would freeze up in the extreme cold. That must have included Ballistol as well. I guess those are pretty extreme conditions that none of us are going to encounter. On the other hand, the Russian guns kept working, including the Mosin. This wasn’t so much because of Russian lubrication but because of loose tolerances in the design. I must say that the Mosin is a neglected player in the debate on the value of controlled round feeding. The Mosin does not have controlled found feeding, but it is the most accurate of all my bolt-action rifles including the Mauser 98 and the Enfield No. 4, both with controlled round feeding. The Mosin simply never fails to feed and extract, not even close.

    Matt61


  14. Hey Gunfun1 and Dave
    Yea I been under the weather for a bit but feeling better now and been busy tuning and modding the XC60C I bought that you turned me on to in the earlier blog. Best 100.00 dollars I ever spent. The gun is pretty surprising quality for 100 bucks and Mike is a great person to deal with also. Yea I miss the 60s and 70s muscle car era. I had the luck of having a best friend that in 72 got hold of 64 GTO 389 tri-power, 4speed ,3.30 posi rear, delete ac, power windows, power brakes, power steering and sound proofing/deadening. It was the car that John Wagners and Fred Delorean snuck out from under corporate GM bigwigs nose and started the muscle car craze. It was the fastest 1/4 mile showroom stock made that year, it out ran the 327 fuelly vette in the quarter for showroom stock at 12.70 in the 1/4. it only had a alternator on the motor and four wheel drum brakes with a single cylinder master cylinder and weighed only 2875 pounds. A 67 six cylinder Camaro weighed 3300 pounds. He bought it from the original owner that was a Pontiac mechanic from Colorado with only 40,000 miles on it. There was not another car in Cocoa Beach for several years that could out run that goat. It would smoke the H60-14 that it had on back then to 100 miles an hour thru the first 3 gears and straighten out at 100 when shifting into fourth and run up to 145mph in a heart beat. You could be running 60 mph in fourth and have a kid in his hot rod pull up next to us and my buddy would down shift to second dump the clutch and punch and the rear tires would go up in smoke and the kids wanting to race would just back off and disappear. We made most of our money jumping cigarette packs with the left front wheel cause you could dump the clutch and lift the left front tire 6 inches for a couple feet before the rear tires went up in smoke so we would have the suckers put100 bucks in the pack of cigs and place it in front of the left front tire and he would dump the clutch hop over the cigs stop open the door and pick up the pack and say see ya, pissed a lot of people off with that trick. I got given that goat when my buddy moved up to a 66 SS 427 chevelle and had a blast with it. I built the engine with a hotter cam and headers and drove the wheels off it the best part was if you would keep your foot out of the tri power it would get 22 mile per gallon on the highway at 80 mph and 18 around town, but if you open the tri power you could watch the gas gauge drop with every time you punched it. I wrapped it around a 72 Cadillac an a wet road when I forgot I had the tri power hooked up and stepped on the gas to go between two cars and when the tri power opened up around in circles I went and hit the caddy sideways with the rear of the car bent the frame. The caddy had small ding in the bumper,broke headlamp and scratch on the fender. Like a VW hitting a tank. I miss those days. I read a study a few years ago from a nuclear physicist that did a study on oil and viscosity life span and Mobil 1 was at the top, but what was surprising was that plain old Castrol GTX was second best compared to all the other synthetics other than mobil1. Go figure
    Mike


    • How about the hundred dollar bill taped to the dashboard.

      Have somebody sit in the pasenger seat. Take off from a dead stop and if they could grab the hundred dollar bill before you hit 4th gear it was thiers. But if they couldnt they had to pay you a hundred dollar bill.

      That was some good times back then.


  15. Yea Gunfun
    That was before I was old enough to drive my friend uncle bought a brand new Yenko Camaro from Bob Steele Chevy in Merritt Island FL that was shipped there by Dave Yenko from his dealership in PA. It had a 427 tunnel ram 2 four barrel motor with 800 horsepower , a close ratio Muncie four speed crash box with every other tooth on the syncro brass blocking rings machined off and a 4.11 rear end with blankets around the trans and rear end with a bullet proof bell housing. He would sit in neutral at a light and when the passenger said go he would slam the shifter in first without using the clutch and nail the throttle with the 100 dollar bill taped to the glove box and if you could grab it by the time he hit third gear it was yours to keep. nobody could ever grab it because he did not have to use the clutch due every other tooth on the blocking rings not being there, but you also could not downshift and use engine braking to help slow you down because of the missing teeth would cause the trans to tear up from the reverse torque loading. I was only 13 then and my friend was six foot tall and could press 110 pounds on a barbell over his head and just about touch the ceiling with one hand and he never could get the 100 bucks. That Camaro ran his uncle broke in a little over a year at only 4 miles per gallon even at 25 to 30 cents a gallon. It cost him 10 grand for that Yenko in 68 and just think what it would be worth today. That was the fastest street legal LOL car I have ever been in for quite a few years. Yes it would have left the 64 goat in its dust. As I said the good ole days
    Mike


    • buldawg76
      Do you remember the 302 zappers that they put in the 67,8 and 9 Z28′s.

      Well I had a 74 Nova that had a small journal 283 bored .080 over with 461 heads with the big valves. And had the heads milled .030″.

      Then we took .020″ off the bottom of the main caps and line bored .020″ up in the block for the crank. Then we used flat top pistons and milled the top of the pistons off to zero deck the engine. That put the top ring closer to the top of the piston instead of milling the block to get zero deck. We took and put the main bearings in up side down so there was no oil hole going up to the camshaft and we drilled .070″ holes in the main bearing to oil the cam. That’s how we made oil restricters instead of buying them. That kept the oil on the crank were those high winding short stroke engines needed it.

      It had the 3rd design off road Duntov solid lifter cam in it And a spring rev kit that held the solid lifters to the camshaft lobe to help the engine not get valve float at the high rpms. Like 9,000 of them high winding rpm’s. And it had a torker intake on it with a 750 cfm Holly.

      And I used one of Grumpy Jenkins tricks where he used one of the old style clutchs from the water pump fan and adapted the clutch to the crankshaft pully that drives the water pump pulley. We even made a bracket and a pulley that went on the rear end yoke and mounted the alternator back there and had the battery in the trunk in the back right. So there wasn’t nothing taking away from the crankshaft horse power. And yep it was a standard brake car because the big camshaft didn’t make enough vacuum to operate a power brake booster.

      Then we had a transmission adapter plate that accepted a 13″ flywheel, clutch and 3900 pound 3 finger Borg and beck pressure plate from a 1965 dump truck. Yep 4500 rpm launches with slicks that I drove on the street. 4.56 gears with a close ratio muncie rock crusher 4 spd. And yep did the same thing on the synchronizers. And it was still a leaf spring car but I had ladder bars that connected under the front seat and it had sub frame connectors to that it all tied together.

      That car Idled at 1200 to 1800 rpm and it loped so bad from the cam that it would sound like the engine would shut off about every 2 or 3 times it fired. I could be cruising down the road at 60 mph in 4th gear at about 4500 rpm and have somebody pull up and want to race. I would tell them to go and I would just put the pedal down enough to stay along side them and I would say is that all you got. Not even down shift and we would be around 100 mph and I would hammer it and on the street it would start squealing the slicks up to about a 130 then finally start hooking and pulling hard. The car would run about 150 mph.

      At the track I would leave at 4500 rpm and it would pull both front tires about 6 inches and carry them through almost through 1st gear. It ran 10.50′s at about 140 mph. At the track there was no spinning. That was 1980 when I had that car and they would allow you to use vht or bleach with your burn outs back then. I think we used the vht later on and the bleach at first. And whats crazy is I drove that car every day back then and never thought nothing about how much gas I put in it. And the pro stock cars were starting to run in the 8′s at that time. And the super stock cars the big name guys were driving was running in the mid to high 9′s at that time. I was about a second off of their times and driving my car everyday. So that old Nova was a fast ride on the street at that time. That was a maroon car. Some people here has herd me talk of the 72 purple Nova I had later on. So not the same cars.

      The maroon car was all throttle and no bottle. The purple care was all throttle and the bottle. So two different cars at two different times but with one thing in mind. Go quick and get there fast. :)


    • That game is still being played today.
      1320videos has a bunch of them on youtube, just type “100 dollar bill challenge”, the have turbocharged and supercharged cars. Most have over 800 hp.

      J-F


      • Yea
        The technology today is so good hot rodders can squeeze so much more out of there motors with less effort and creativity than we could back then. We had to use every trick in the book to stay up front and invent some of our own. Now you can just about put anything together and throw enough nitrous and turbo or superchargers to it to make a rocket ship. Gunfun that same buddy that had the goat and then the 66 chevelle ( he had a silver spoon in his mouth when he was born) also had a 64 Nova II wagon that we put a 283 in with about the same work you had done on yours and would drive it on the street also. It would turn 10,000 rpm all day long and with a vette m22 rock crusher close ratio 4 speed and and 4.11 rear gears we would leave at 8000 rpm and it would carry the front wheels in the air for fifty feet or so till you bang second at 10,000 grand and lift about 6 inches again. We would drive it on the street out parting at night and put 2 or 3 of us bigger guy in the back up against the tailgate and do wheel stands that would make the Little Red wagon jealous, it would drag the bumper so hard that we finally had to weld some plate steel on the bumper to keep it from grinding the bumper off to the point that the gas tank would start to grind on the pavement, not a good scenario with sparks and gasoline. We had the most fun it that nova out of all the hot rods he ever had. It was so cool to see the looks on the face of people you were getting to race from a stop light when you started revving it up to the 8000 grand launch rpm and they would look at us like we were about to grenade the motor and them leave the light with the front wheels in the air that most of the kids would freak out and just let off cause they thought we were out of control and going to wreck or crash into them. Yea I wish I had the money to build another hot rod today the old school way like we did back then. When I get my disability ( been denied and have a lawyer so just waiting for hearing) I got a Little Datsun 620 pickup that I am planning to drop a 400 4 bolt small block motor I have in it just to play with which should be fun cause the trucks only weighs 2200 pounds and with that 400, a4speed borg warner super T 10 and a ford 8.8 or 9 inch rear if I can find a cheap one it should be a hand full of fun. and get some jaw dropping looks when they realize it got a V8 in it.
        Mike


        • buldawg76
          Your right about building things now days verses what we had to figure out on our own back then. And I never dynoed the maroon Nova but did dyno the purple 72. The engine in it was a .030″ over 350 built basically the same way. But it had the longer 3.5″ stroke verses the shorter 3.0″ stroke of the 283.

          I did rear wheel dyno the 72 with the 350 and it was making right over 600 hp and 495 ft lbs. of torque. And I had a 150 shot of nitrous on it. With the nitrous it rear wheel dynoed 758 hp @ 7900 rpm and but it was making a whopping 660 ft lbs of torque. I had a bunch of stuff don to that car. Moved the engine back 3″ and moved the rear end forward 3″. Had the fuel cell and battery in the trunk and we filled the original gas tank with water for more weight behind the wheels. Then we bolted a 3 inch diameter pipe filled with concrete and lead up inside the rear bumper so you couldn’t see it for more weight behind the rear wheels.

          The car was a automatic with a reverse transbrake valve body and 3500 stall and I had a MSD box on it with a 2 step and I could adjust my rpm that I could leave at. I could leave at 5000 rpm if I wanted or 1500 rpm. But it would drag the bumper on the street like your Nova wagon And it only had 8 inch wide M&H Racemaster dot cheater slicks on it. And it only had 3.42 gears. I tryed 4.11′s and it slowed it up.

          And that truck will be nice when you get it done. And yep I had a little blue Chevy S-10 with a 350 and auto trans with a 3200 stall and 3.73 gears. That was a fun little ride too.

          J-F
          I had no idea they were still doing that with the hundred dollar bills. But I have watched some videos of the newer tuner cars making the horsepower your talking about and the drift cars. And they were giving girls rides and most of them were like freaking out the whole ride. It was funny to watch. And you could see the look on their face that they were relieved when the guy driving let off of the go pedal.

          And boy did we get off topic but that was a nice little bench racing session we just had. And that even reminds me of old times when we sat around talking about the previous days of races that we were involved in. And a lot of times after we raced we would pull over and tell each other about what we had done to our cars. But there was some that didn’t want to talk after they got beat if you know what I mean. Again the good ole days. Its just the way it was were I grew up.


        • It’s not that easy to make the power we’re talking about. Yes it’s easier than before but it’s not easily done and certainly not cheaply done!
          I’ve been racing with my cousin since we were about 18/20. He now owns an 800hp Corvette and I can tell you it was no easy task. He has a f1 procharger on it. Lots of time spent on the dyno, methanol injection etc. That thing is brutal.

          It’s the white ‘vette in this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jKUkUV9aRk&list=PLF62842A83B17F133&feature=share&index=4

          J-F


          • J-F
            I agree it is not easy to make 800 hp out of the newer cars also, but compared to 40 years ago when nitrous had not even been discovered in the mainstream and turbos and superchargers were only reworked Detroit diesel parts to fit gas motors IE. 6-53 and 6-71 chargers and big sized turbos from Cummings and international trucks. We had to use more home grown good old American know how to make a truly fast hot rod as back then you had bis ply belted tires that would literally not hook up at all or run cheater slicks that were crazy dangerous in the rain. To go fast today is easier but II did not say cheaper. there is just way more aftermarket support and computer controls systems that you can change many variables with the push of a few keypad clicks. Back then we had no computers and very limited access to dynos for testing it was good ole seat of the pants or go to the local drag strip on run what you brung night and burn gobs of fuel, make jet and timing changes and burn more fuel and hope you you made the right changes, so when I say it easier I mean there is more support and info to utilize and yes it is still expensive to go fast. The new cars run very good but I still feel there is nothing like sitting behind the wheel of a old big cubic inch American muscle car to get our American red blood flowing. At least for me any way. My car of cars if I could any car ever made would be a 1967 Shelby AC 500 GT, The two seater not the Mustang, It set a record that stood from 67 till 2006 when the Bugatti Veyron beat and it was the ability to go from 0mph to 100mph and back to 0 in 12 seconds. They worth many millions of dollars today. The amazing thing is Carroll Shelby had to have 100 cars built to meet the FIA homologations rules of being a production vehicle to race in the 24 hours of lemans, so he had 100 cars made but only assembled 57 to race himself and sell to other racers back in the sixties. There has been 43 of them sitting in crate in a warehouse in California until 95 when he had a heart attack and needed a heart transplant and because of his fame he was able to get one and survived, but while in the hospital he saw many other less fortunate than him so when he got well he commissioned a company in California to assemble the remaining 423 cobra and sold for 500,000 each and donated all the money to the American Heart foundation. I can tell you how I wish I had a half million to buy one of those original cars. I could ramble all night.
            but it getting late and got to save some for another day,
            Mike


  16. Gunfun
    We definitely got way off topic but it seems we would have had a blast if we grew up together because you have done a lot of the same things growing up that I have just in a different part of the country. The kids today really don’t know what they are missing out on with all the technology today. I know I have to almost force my g-kids to go outside and play unless it is to shoot otherwise they want to play video games or talk on face book. We did not have that choice we either sat in front of the TV watching old reruns or go outside and make are own fun and adventures. I wish our country could get back some of those old traditions that have seemed to disappeared nowadays. I think there would be a lot less of these crimes and shooting that are allover the news if the kids had to make there own fun and learn the hard from there mistakes like we did. Spare the rod and spoil the child seems to be the norm today and wonder why these thing happen. Got to go now so UPS just arrived with parts for my tuning project on my 100 buck Chinese PCP that you turned me on to in another blog
    Talk to you later Gunfun
    Mike


    • buldawg76
      Im sure we would of had a good time runing around together.

      And my 2 teenage daughters are like that also. They will go out and shoot the airguns and bow and arrows. But I believe your right. And I agree with what you said.

      And that was good talking with you about the muscle car days. Got a bunch of good memories rolling through the old brain. Thanks and dont take so long between visits to the blog thi next time around.


  17. J-F and Gunfun
    Glad to see some old traditions still have been passed down thru the years with the 100 dollar bill trick. Yea Gunfun we would have definitely been hell raisers( hope I can say that on this blog) if we would have run together. My very best friend is now a actor in the big apple and has had pretty good success at it, never became famous but make good money. If you remember the Capitol One credit card commercial a few years back of a elf climbing up a ladder to put a star on top of the tree and the tree fell over and the elf landed in all the presents, He was the elf. he was just recently on the TV show on ID Discovery channel called The Perfect Murder and played the Killer in the first part of the show with long hair,handle bar moustache and no shirt on. He has a part in the new movie with Russell Crowe ” NOAH ” and plays a warlord in that movie so I guess he is finally starting to make a name for himself in the big screen. I know for the Capital One commercial he got paid 15,000 grand for two days work, so not to bad huh. I got no idea how much he got paid for his part in NOAH, but I would bet its in the 6 figures.
    I try not to stay away so long but I been looking and researching over on the Gateway To Airguns forum for tuning and mods I can preform on my XC60C that you told me about cause pumping my old 1400 is just not as easy as it used to be with the aches and pains I got now So I have slipped into the dark side as they say on the GTA forum.
    BB
    I have been watching last years American Airgunner TV shows that you and Rossi had done as I have switched from cable to dish and can get them now. I never knew you made them till I was flipping thru the guide one night and came across the shows. The Hopper is set to record the series so I won’t miss any now. Are you doing ones in 2014 still or was it just in 2013 because the ones that I record are all from 2013.
    Mike



    • buldawg76
      Your buddy’s a famous movie star! Maybe you will be getting to hop up a new Ferrari or Lamborghini pretty soon then when he comes to pick you up for a ride. :)


    • Wouldn’t it be cool to win the lottery and get ALL the cars you want? I work at an auto parts store so I get to visit some nice places and see some cool cars. One of our clients just got a beautiful all black ’68 Nova SS, nothing fancy, just a well tuned 383, making about 600hp. Another client stopped by with a brand spanking new Nissan GTR, it wouldn’t be my first choice of cars but the sound that’s coming out of those tailpipes is so cool, it’s one of the best sounding car I’ve heard, especially for a stock car and then there’s the owner of the business (not our store, I mean the WHOLE chain of stores and garages) who comes to work in a very nice Aston Martin. One of the Hyundai dealers around here has HUGE warehouse where they keep all of their used cars and prep the new sold ones, that place has 6 lifts, washing stations and a paintbooth and that’s all on one wall and the rest of the building can probably fit about 300 cars if packed correctly.

      If I won the lottery this week-end I don’t know what muscle car I would get first. There’s just so many of them that I would want… I think I’d start with a Cadillac CTS-V and maybe a Ford GT (don’t know why they stopped making them?) and I love how the 60s Cougars look, a few big cruisers, I mean some HUGE land barges would also be very nice. The 72 Camaro with the split bumpers is also very appealing to me as are the Challenger and Charger of the late 60′s. I can’t pin point ONE car… I’d buy them as I found them, restore some, sell some with a few exotics in the mix.

      I’ve been a subscriber to HotRod and CarCraft since the 90′s. If you like the roadtripping with a junker and fix it as you go type of thing you have to go to youtube and search the motortrend chanel for roadkill. It’s 2 staffers from HotRod who do fun stuff like swapping an engine over a week-end in a summit parking lot or travel from California to Alaska in an old Ranchero to go race it on ice.

      J-F


      • J-F
        What auto parts chain do you work at, is it one of the big national chains or just a state wide one. I started working on cars in 1976 at 18 at a independent shop and then in 83 moved to a GM dealer in Merritt Island FL. I have been a ASE certified master technician since 77, a GM master tech since 85, Cadillac master tech since85 and Oldsmobile master tech also. I moved to Alabama in 93 and worked for a Cadillac dealer until 98 when I got a job with Harley at the Talladega Test Facility until they picked up and moved everything to Arizona in 09. I became a Harley master tech while at the test facility, we tested new model Harleys and it was the best job I ever had because it combined one of my hobbies ( motorcycles) with my job as a durability test mechanic. It was research and development facility right next to Talladega Super Speedway and we tested inside on the speedway. I started on third shift ( they tested bikes 24 hours a day and sometimes when it was close to new model year rollout it was seven day a week for two or three months) working from 10pm to 6.30 am for 2 1/2 years then got to switch to first shift (6 am to 2.30 pm) much better hours as I could never sleep during the day. I have been around the high bank of the speedway so many times I can’t remember , especially when I first started on third shift at 2 in the morning with only the headlight of the bike to see with cause Talladega has no lights. You have to be going 60 plus on a bike to be able to start to lean it over in the banking and you have to be going 90 plus to stay up the high bank in a car and that is what speed the pace car leads the pack around it at. We would work on 2 to 3 years newer bikes than the current model year ( as in 01 we would be testing 03 and 04 model year bikes) most of the time we had no info on the test bikes like a service manual or parts book at all. just a build book with very limited and crude drawings and part lists but I loved every day because it was always a challenge to perform the diagnosis’s and document all the work done. It would be cool to drive a rat rod around the country and work odd jobs to fund your trip as needed. I do know the two cars I would buy first if I won a lottery, they would be in this order 1967 Shelby AC 500 Cobra ( the two seater not the mustang) and a Bugatti Veyron because those are two cars that have set records that have stood for many many years. The cobra would do 0 to 100 and back to 0 in 12 seconds off the showroom floor and the Bugatti is guaranteed to do 257 mph off the showroom floor. I would have to be a large lottery purse because those two cars would set you back 5 to 6 million alone. From there it would have to be a 64 goat 389 tri power four speed posi and delete everything but a alternator. and then probably a split bumper Z28 and then I could not really say cause I want all the old muscle cars oh would have to have a 69 COPO Camaro also as well as a 2013 COPO and the list goes on. Boy are we way off topic but that’s whats so cool about this blog is its all ok as long as it clean and polite
        Good to talk with you and remember the old days and dreams people have, never stop dreaming
        Mike


        • I had forgotten about the COPO’s, those are cool. Did you see the Gas Monkey Garage guys build a COPO at the GM plant? How cool it must have been.

          Wow that’s very close to the dream job you had testing future models!

          I used to work at CarQuest when I was 18. I did a few other things and I’m now 37 and back into the auto parts business at an AutoValue store, sadly not much performance parts but I’m working on my boss to change that ;-)

          J-F


          • J-F
            It was my dream job working for Harley with all the benefits and perks that came with it like a corporate American express card wit unlimited credit on that I used to pay for plane tickets, rental cars and motel rooms when I went to Milwaukee for service schools or to Kansas city to help setup the Vrod engine assembly line or to Arizona to the Ford Motor Company proving grounds to perform high speed durability testing on the Vrod in it very early prototype stages on the 5 mile oval there. It had everything a employee could ask for or dream of in a job. The main reason I got the job there is because they were getting ready to start durability testing of the Vrod bike in it early stages in 98 for its release in 01 and none of the mechanics at the test facility had any experience with fuel injection or computer controls and coming from Cadillac I had to regress to 85-86 model years GM vehicle systems as it is a simple speed density injections system and was using all Delphi electronics just the same GMs used. Actually the tps, map, iat,ckp and other electronic parts were the same as on the cars literally interchangeable from a car to the bike. Got paid on a salary basis where anything over forty hours a week was time and 1/2 and Sundays and holidays were double time. so during the early testing of the Vrod we were working seven day a week 24 hours a day to get the testing done for rollout. I made some good money and had fun doing it. Yea I saw that episode, he actually bought like 10 or 15 of the rolling chassis for the COPOs the only bad thing about the new COPOs is they are not street legal like the first gens were. I wish they did not pickup and move to Arizona to the proving ground there but since we tested inside the speedway whenever the races came we could not test and with the Dale Jarrett racing experience starting up and Talladega was one of the track they were offering it on our testing was going to be greatly interrupted at the speedway so they decided to move to Arizona where it ids a fully secure proving grounds. I went back to cars after I got laid off for awhile and wasn’t happy doing that so got a job at a bike salvage yard till my health went south and I am now out of work waiting for disability to get approved. Just to many projects I want to do and not enough money and all the time.
            Mike


  18. BB
    I glad to hear you will still be doing the American Airgunner in 2014 as I really enjoy the show and my g-kids are also watching as part of teaching them gun safety and hunting skills. definitely like the roundtable and airgunner challenges as it has given me ideas for new backyard targets for the g-kids to practice with.
    Mike


  19. Gunfun
    My buddy has not made the famous part yet although the part in the movie NOAH may give him a big jump start. Up until the part in the movie NOAH he has done mainly small bits and pieces here and there with commercials and small stand in parts. He does get to use some of his cars and guns in the shows as props and such and that gets him even more money by using his stuff. In the TV show The Perfect Murder the gun that they used and showed as being part of the evidence collected by police was one of his guns. He does not have any Ferrari’s or Lambs yet but you never know it may not be long, he has 9 acres in upstate NY and his next door neighbor with about 200 acres is Eddie Murphy and he does go over and hang out with him and do work on his property and stuff so that’s pretty cool.

    Yea I thought about Li Pos when I messaged BB but in his review he referred to the batteries that air soft guns use as still being Ni Cads and I did not even think about the Li pos. They are better in the memory dept but they also have their own limitations in that they can be ruined very easily if discharged below a minimum voltage level and the new RC planes and cars speed controllers have built in shut down software to prevent damage to the Li Pos from over discharge. I don’t believe the air soft world has adopted that technology yet and therefore are still using Ni Cads because you actually want them to be fully discharged to maintain good charge life. I have Ni Cad packs from the late 80s that I used for car racing back then that when I stored them 25 year ago I fully discharged them with a with my Hitec charger/discharger and also with a auto halogen light bulb to the point that they would not even make the bulb glow and I have got them out about a year ago and cycled them five times with the Hitec and they came back to about 90% of the milli-amp rating I wrote on the packs 25 years ago so LiPos give out much more amperage but are very sensitive to discharge thresholds and that is why I think the air soft industry is still using Ni cads.
    Mike


  20. B.B.,
    In your article you said “My vintage CO2 guns, on the other hand, are always charged and never leak. They are like PCP guns, in that respect.”

    I would think the opposite is true, that the PCP guns leaks gas and the co2 unlikely, because I thought co2 molecules are larger than air molecules. So why PCP doesn’t leak?


    • Joe,

      PCPs are made better than most CO2 gun and their seals are in the right places and shaped correctly. Good ones never leak.

      Sometimes a seal will have a pinhole that leaks, but when it is changed, the gun stops leaking.

      B.B.


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