Daisy 880: Part 3

by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier

Part 1
Part 2

Daisy 880
The Daisy 880 multi-pump is a classic.

I was going to shoot my old Daisy 880 at 10 meters with both pellets and BBs, and then again at 25 yards with just pellets, but I figured — what the heck? I have the brand new Daisy 880 on hand, and I’ve already stated that the accuracy might fall off at 25 yards with my old 880 because of the velocity variance — so why not switch over to the new rifle now?

So, I opened the box and took out the rifle. According to the box, this rifle is made in China, but I can’t tell any difference between it and my older rifle, except the lettering on the metal and plastic parts has a slightly different font. Even the front sight is the identical red fiberoptic sight that’s on my old 880.

Start the test
This time, I thought I would test the rifle exactly as it came from the box, so I didn’t oil it. But I did open the manual and read how Daisy recommends oiling it, when it needs it. Because some of our blog readers have insisted that Daisy only recommends oiling with 30-weight non-detergent oil, I photographed the section in the owner’s manual that comes with the new gun. It’s shown below.

Daisy 880 manual
This is straight out of the manual that came with the new gun. Clearly, Daisy recommends a range of motor oil viscosities.

So, I started shooting without doing anything to the gun. I tested exactly the same way I tested my old 880 before — starting with 7.9-grain Crosman Premier domes.

Pumps Velocity
2           396
3           481
4           538
5           530,   473,   438 —   oil!  –  450,   457,   449

The plan was to shoot the rifle with Premier lites up to 10 pumps. But on pump five, something strange happened. The rifle did not shoot faster — in fact it slowed down. Thinking I’d made a mistake while counting the pump strokes, I did it again, and that shot was even slower than the last. I did it one more time, and once more the gun shot even slower. In fact, it shot slower than it had on just three pumps!

At this point, I assumed the rifle was suffering from a lack of oil on the pump head; and since 20-weight Crosman Pellgunoil is exactly in the middle of Daisy’s recommended range of oil viscosities, I used it to oil the pump head. Then, I shot three more shots with five pump strokes each. As you can see, they did increase in velocity; but by the third shot, they were coming back down again.

I decided to start the test all over. The gun was not oiled, again.

Pumps Velocity
2          267
3          351
4          431
5          466
6          474
7          512
8          502,   474,   502
9          529
10        545

This time, the rifle’s velocity tapered off at 8 pump strokes. I shot two more shots on 8 pumps and then completed the test so you could see the results. The new rifle was clearly not performing up to snuff.

Next, I decided to try a string of shots on five pump strokes to see what would happen. I got this.

Pumps Velocity
5          428
5          432
5          425

Oiled gun with 30-weight non-detergent oil and retested with 5 pumps:

5          450
5          462
5          475
5          490
5          487

Okay — 30-weight non-detergent oil
When the velocity in the string above was lower than it had been before, I wondered if all the hype about 30-weight oil might have some merit. I stopped in the middle of the test and oiled the gun with 30-weight non-detergent oil. You can see what happened after that.

I decided to rerun the whole test, now that the rifle seemed to be performing better. This is the rifle oiled with 30-weight oil.

Pumps Velocity
2          354
3          427
4          491
5          496
6          488
7          485
8          490
9          512
10        513

Observation
The BRAND NEW Daisy 880 I’m testing is clearly not performing as well as several of our readers have reported. And, just as clearly, it has very little to do with the viscosity of the oil used to lube the pump head. The only slight advantage 30-weight oil seems to have over 20-weight oil (Pellgunoil) in this new test rifle is that it does hold up for a couple additional shots. I think it’s obvious that this brand new test gun doesn’t live up to the advertised level of performance.

I am returning this rifle to Pyramyd Air. I will think about what I want to do next. I could rebuild my old gun, but I would be doing it with Chinese-made parts that might not work as well as the parts that are in the rifle now. Or I could just continue testing with my old rifle, since it is the best 880 I have.

One thing I AM NOT going to do is to keep chasing after 880s until I get a good one. This evaluation is supposed to resemble what a customer would experience, and I think it may have done just that.

One last comment
I couldn’t have done any of this testing without a chronograph. I would have been flying blind if I had no way of timing each of the shots that were taken. And I probably would have enjoyed my new rifle exactly as it was. My point is this: If you can’t chronograph the shots, be happy with what you have but stay out of velocity discussions. I think most Daisy 880 owners probably don’t chronograph their guns, and they’re happier for it.

220 thoughts on “Daisy 880: Part 3

  1. Ha! All that trouble about the first one being old and the brand new one is getting a hundred fps less at each number of strokes! What a strange ironic proof of every airgun being different. Maybe daisy dialed the eighty back? How dare you, its not broken in! Disgusting. A sham! Ooh boy, that was epic- good job B.B.


  2. Just curious…I’ve own an 880, but I’ve got no dog in this fight…do you think there is something wrong with your new 880. Is it a lemon, is there that much variance in production, or has production power been dialed back? If you think something is wrong, what would be your best guess as to what? Again, just curious.
    Rob


  3. BB
    So we are blob’s now so now I see what you think of us readers.

    “Because some of our blob readers have insisted that Daisy only recommends oiling with 30-weight non-detergent oil”

    Anyway you got a typo there. How about this… Beacause some of the (blog) readers….


  4. Btw, as I said I do have an 880 and I don’t particularly like it. It was a gift from someone who had given up on it. I much prefer my 2100, but if there was some Fix for the 880, I might try it.
    Rob


    • Rob
      I have enjoyed the 880′s that I have had. I like my smooth bore 760 just as well as my rifled bore 760. And I never in my life thought of running them through the chrony.

      Back when I was a kid shooting the guns I just talked about they performed well. I would shoot cans, starlings, plastic model cars, and those small plastic soldier figures and so on with no problem out to sometimes 30 yards with open sights. I didn’t even think about a scope on them until my later years of shooting when the eyes didn’t work as good anymore.

      Then I got a .22 cal. Benjamin pump gun in I think around probably 1974. Now that gun was a beast compared to the other Crosman and Daisy pump guns. I think that Benji was a little more serious gun than the other pumpers.

      And then now if I compare those guns to my PCP guns that I have now. Well there is no comparison. When you step up to the PCP level of guns things seem to get better. In my experience anyway.

      And before somebody starts going off about what I just said. I will say this that I have changed a lot of the Crosman pump and C02 guns around with different components that’s available in the Crosman line and have made some neat guns. The Discovery breech and barrel on a 1377 or 2240 model and you got a pretty accurate shooting pump gun that puts out decent feet per second.

      I kind of think we are being over critical on the 880. Heck maybe BB needs to test a old rifled barrel 760 and a new smooth bore 760 on the chrony and for accuracy just for the heck of it. Maybe we will be surprised.

      Of course after BB gets his chrony under control. :)


      • Just got to make a little corection. Ileft something out.

        “I will say this that I have changed a lot of the Crosman pump and C02 guns around with different components that’s available in the Crosman line and have made some neat guns. The Discovery breech and barrel on a 1377 or 2240 model and you got a pretty accurate shooting pump gun that puts out decent feet per second.”

        Just forgot to say… you got a pretty accurate shooting pump gun (and Co2 gun) that puts out decent feet per second.


      • When it comes to accuracy, it can be a shooter. The one I just sold to my brother will easily take out pop cans @ 40 yards. If you can get the O-rings sealed, that’s when you get the power. This type of valve dumps All air, giving the gun a nice, but mellow report. I’ll have to get ahold of one with a better reinforced pump handle to wring any more outta it but as I said earlier,I’d be willing to bet this one’s pushing 8fpe






          • Hey Reb.
            Noooo, the gun is fine as far as it goes. I didn’t mean to misrepresent it. It shoots fine–that is, it shoots hard. I don’t have a chrony, but I don’t have any complaints about the power. My problem with the gun is it doesn’t shoot as accurately as I believe it should…or maybe could. My 2100 will outshoot it. For that, my 1377 will outshoot it. I’ve tried a variety of pellets, but maybe I just haven’t hit on the right one yet. Any recommendations?



            • While you have the shroud off, check the barrel for a tight fit in the breech block, if loose, use a block of wood to protect the crown and carefully press in tighter via hammer. careful of the plastic!
              Good luck!

              Reb


  5. BB
    It just hit me in the face. I know what the problem is and your just going to fall over when you realize it.

    You have to get a new chrony. How old is your chrony any way. I hope your not trying to test these guns with a old chrony. I think you should have PA send you a new chrony and then the test would be more fair. How in the world could you ever think of testing with a old chrony. Shame on you BB. ;)


  6. Another question–this one completely off topic. You know the raised rear sites that the old buffalo guns had. You could basically point them up like cannons if you wanted and I guess they were surprisingly accurate at distance. Are there any such pop-up rear sites for pellet guns? We might not be aiming for 1200 yards, but for 120 yards instead. It would be a lot of fun. Any guns with that feature or after markets to buy?


    • Rob
      I think that was brought up quite a while back when BB did a review on one of them guns. The old Buffalo guns.

      I have shot firearms in my younger days that had the flip up sight on them and I loved that kind of shooting. My eyes just wont focus right anymore. Other wise I would sure have something rigged up on at least one of my airguns. And I have really never looked into something like that for airguns for the reason of my eye sight.

      That’s why I was excited about the See All sight. If something like that was done to that sight where it had a micrometer adjustment that could elevate the magnifying lens for greater range use I would love it.


      • You’ll be surprised, GF1,, at how well you can see through an aperture sight. I have found I can actually shoot without my glasses, if I like. It will change your view of open sights. Of course, They aren’t as good when trying to acquire a moving target,, but for paper punching,, or tin can punching,, well,, You gonna like it!!
        ed


        • This is why i’m still considering the scope options. My gun will retain it’s original sighting system for close range quick acquisition purpose, as long as I don’t cover it up, it will remain serviceable.

          Reb


        • ed
          I’m not for sure if this is why I have had trouble in the past when I tried peep sights.

          But I have astigmatism, and where bifocals. I can’t focus in closer than probably 12 inches or so unless I have my bifocals or reading glasses on. And I cut my right eye on a cornstalk leaf when I was 16 years old. ( I’m not making that up about the cornstalk leaf; I’m dead serious) So I have this little fine line that runs vertical and kicks a little to the right. And its just to the right of the center of my vision if I’m looking straight ahead and it is a little blurry around that line depending on the light. And I shoot right handed.

          So that’s some of the reason I shoot with both eyes open sometimes. If you watch me shoot and watch my eyes I will blink my left eye open and close to get my sight picture to sharpen up. And depending on the light conditions (usually I see the line more when the light is brighter) It will mask that line out of my vision if I have both eyes open.

          So that’s why its kind of a pain in the you know what for me to shoot different types of sights. That’s why scopes help me because I can use the scopes eye piece to sharpen up the reticle.

          Anyway just another thing you know.



    • Rob,

      Years ago there was a popular fad that even became an event at some FT (Field Target) get togethers. It was called the Quigley Bucket Challenge. It was inspired by the scene in the movie Quigley Down Under where Mathew Quigley (Tom Selleck) shot a bucket, offhand with his creedmoor vernier tang sights.

      You couldn’t use a pcp but the old sheridan msp’s were popular in this shooting challenge. It was encouraged that you have a ladder type sight. The sky is the limit on what you can pay for a good ladder sight. Saw a sight set for a Marlin Ballard sell on ebay a few months back for almost $2,800.00.

      Most airgunners used the aftermarket creedmoor vernier tang sights from track of the wolf in their long range, quigley rifle builds.

      http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/883/2

      kevin



      • Thanks Kevin. Those are great. Kind of expensive–not for what they are as replicas for antiques, but as fun add-ons for pellet guns. Still, I will keep them in mind and may try to make one work.
        Rob


      • Kevin
        Thanks for that link. I got a idea in my head to modify a See All sight. Now I think it will be easier than I thought after looking at the link you posted.


  7. Sorry to hear about the problem with the test 880. I am not real impressed with the quality of the all plastic Daisy air rifles. My first Model 35 shot really well with pellets, for 11 months when it died. Daisy sent me a warranty Model 35, which was very inaccurate and through lots of fliers. It died after about 5-6 weeks. I gave up. I then ordered a new Crosman Model 66, and it is shooting better than either Model 35s, as it should being a true rifle, while the 35 is a smooth bore. Amazingly, the trigger on the Model 66, while having quite a bit of travel, is quite light, and way better than the very stiff and gritty feeling triggers on both the Daisy Model 35′s. If the Model 66 will hold together and last for a few years at least, then it seems to be a winner.




      • I’m still in shock that he has a ready supply of non-detergent oils… Think of how long a quart can of non-detergent oil is going to last if it’s only used for Daisy pumpers… Can’t use it for anything else that I know of…



          • Unless my mind has gone — all automobiles of the last 20+ years specify a detergent blend oil. Non-detergent oil is not “regular” any more.


            • I guess you got me Wulfraed! When I looked it up it says it has been relegated to reciprocating components not susceptible to combustion for it’s anti-foaming properties. Still used in compressors transmissions and Daisy airguns!


              • My compressors have been oil-less models…

                Last manual transmission I worked on was spec’d for ATF (Chrysler A-833 Overdrive-4). I didn’t like the clunking from the synchronizers so drained the ATF and poured in 80wt gear oil… The higher viscosity helped the synchro’s match speed much better doing fast shifting (hey, when Chrysler stuffs in a something one step down from a Hurst Competition shifter [it lacked the adjustable over-travel stops of the competition model, but had the very narrow 2-3 transition with a spring assist -- one just had to push the lever forward and the spring took it to the next gate]).



  8. How about the Daisy 845 and the new(?) Daisy 74? I’d like a report on them, they both seem like nice plinkers.
    I know you’re away so I’m not expecting an answer rigth away, no rush.

    J-F


  9. As I read this, I was reminded of the buggy whip manufacturers that went out of business because they failed to keep up with the changing times. Could the proud Daisy company be starting to suffer from this? Has there been any technological advances or improved quality control or new models lately from Daisy?

    Fred DPRoNJ




        • I gotta buddy that has an underlever he said he wants $50. Not a bad copy, construction was pretty decent, velocity in the low 6′s. I’d definitely check accuracy before making an offer, but I’m considering it. Whatcha think?


          • If it’s a B3 it’s worth nothing to me but about $10 in the market. Every time I turn around I see one of those chinese underlevers. They seem to follow me.

            kevin


            • The first thing that I noticed was that it was a Chinese replica of a very nice gun. I’ll check it back out when he gets home. My curiosity killing me.




    • By the time I got done playin’ with my last one the pump handle was flexing over 2″ on the 10th pump. If I ever get a chance I’ll send chrony results. I’m thinkin’ I broke 700fps with 7.9!


    • O rings are easy! Inner valving that cannot be seated will have to be ordered, the problem is the plastic. It squeaks, cracks, flexes, strips out and breaks. With a plastic model all repairs or modifications should be accomplished in as few disassemble/reassemble cycles as possible.
      I still have a basketcase 880 with a broken receiver/butt connection and can’t wait to get another!
      If you get ahold of one with a metal receiver Fix It! Or talk to me.


    • Jim
      If I can find my old one I will sell it but you know with inflation and all I would have to charge $400 for it. So you might as well just buy yourself a good PCP gun and get it over with.


  10. B.B.

    I could feel your frustration when pumping and testing the Daisy :-) Actually 8 pumps gave you lower velocity than with 4 pumps (after some oiling with 30-weight oil).

    Please be careful, B.B. – you might be in the danger of loosing some hair during testing such airguns :-)

    Eddie


  11. This feels like one of those times where you see an old beater sitting on someone’s farm “Oh, That old thing? You can have it if you’ll haul it off”. I witnessed such a rebirth while in high school. One of the members in my class received an old, obviously worn smooth out, Beetle, as a gift. He drove it to school for a couple of months until we gradually just stopped seeing it, everyone figured it had finally given up, never to be seen again. Until one day a few months later, there seemed to be a new car on campus.? What kinda car was this? the bumper was about 6″ of the ground,Blue metallic paint, It had 4 square Halogen headlights, a roll pan in the rear coupled with some of the most unique tail lights I had ever seen. When we finally saw him walking toward it, at the end of the day, There were many questions “Where’d you get it?” “How much?” and “Did you trade?” all went unanswered and he climbed inside, and winked as he hit the ignition. When the engine fired you could tell, this wasn’t gonna be pretty. after a couple of minutes of warm up he began to delight us with donuts all over the parking lot, which in the end left a cloud of smoke that could be seen 5 miles across town(Don’t ask how we found that out)!
    Turns out he had gotten ahold of a Porsche 914 and used this as a donor along with some ingenuity, elbow grease and time off for spring break(and a 50 shot o’ no2) had really paid off! I’ll never forget that valuable lesson in respect for junk


    • Reb
      That’s what we were doing in the late 70′s and on. We would find muscle cars setting by a barn and such. We was buying them up cheap like $800 up to $2000 dollars with the average of about 60 to 90,000 miles on them.

      We would fix em up drive’m and dragrace them. Then sell them and find another one and do it all over again with another one. Your not going to believe this but I lost count at around about 30 something muscle cars that I had through out time.


      • Until 2004 I had never spent over $1000 on a car, and that was the ’76 El Camino SS! One of my favorites was a ’78 Plymouth Arrow I’ll see if I can find an example…


        • Reb
          I know what the Arrows are. One of my favorite little sleeper cars that I had was a 86 if I’m remembering the year correct 2 door Turbo Lebaron. It was black with a red interior. Had stuff done to it and it ran its best time of 12.90 in the 1/4 mile but averaged usually 13.40′s or so. And it looked stock as a rock. Fun little car.



  12. B.B.,
    Is it a common practice to oil the piston seal using a non-detergent oil for a single stroke pneumatic or a multi-stoke pneumatic airgun? Any brand of airgun not just Daisy.




    • James,

      Yes, the Williams 5D-SH (SH is for Sheridan) is a peep sight made for the Sheridans. Unless you have two holes ONE THE RIGHT SIDE OF YOUR RECEIVER you will have to drill and tap holes to mount the Williams 5D-SH.

      Another option, not as refined as the Williams 5D-SH is the Benjamin No. 273. It mounts using the two left holes on your receiver. Bryan & Associates carries these and they’re $35.00.

      kevin


  13. Has anyone ever tried a Webley Rebel or one of the other variants? If so I’d like to hear anything and everything you know about them.
    Thanks

    Reb


  14. Does anybody know what model the beeman “combat pistol” is in the budk catalog? And if you guys get field/stream there’s an article in marchs called “Faced with an Anti” that anybody that hunts should read. Really good stuff.


  15. i just noticed that there is a “f” in a pentagram stamped into the receiver on the top right corner of the left side. the “f” in a pentagram is a mark for the german market, insuring that the gun will not exceed 7.5 Jules (7.5J = 5.53 ft/lbs., 5.53 ft/lbs with a 7.9 gr pellet = 560~560 ft/sec.)

    my question is: does daisy make different guns for different markets like crosman will for canada?



      • The only one I’m familiar with off hand (and offhand come to think of it…) is the Daisy/Avanti 853. There’s an 853C version which is used by the Canadian Armed Forces Cadet program for shooting training and competition. It’s also available on the general market from Canadian retailers. The changes seem to be a (very) slight reduction in velocity from 510 to 499 fps and the addition of a five shot indexing magazine. Makes me wonder if the adopted some 953 parts to the 853 to make the 853C. It’s quite a good rifle especially for the price. I tried one and came close to buying one because I wanted a target air rifle that wasn’t PCP and wouldn’t require a firearms license (which I didn’t have at the time). Found a detuned used FWB 602 for sale at the last minute though! Of course now I can’t blame the rifle when I can’t shoot straight.


  16. BB:
    Sorry you got a low end of QC Daisy 880. I am glad that you took the time to test a new daisy 880. The now two Daisy 880′s that I have recently purchased were both on the good end of QC and shoot in the high 690′s and low 700′s on 10 pumps respectively with 7.4 grain pellets.

    I guess that the QC swing is greater than we thought. I do hope that more of them are on the good side than bad.

    Thank you for taking the time to try a new Daisy 880.

    For your old Daisy 880; I would recommend just getting a new set of seals and only replacing the seals. The part numbers to order from Daisy are:
    169362-k00 : Abutment Chamber Seal Kit $3.00.
    169439-000 : “Valve Assembly” (actually just the poppet valve, stem, and cover) $300.

    And that will give you all of the seals in the action. I do not think that you need worry about the O-Ring on the bolt.

    I look forward to your next review of the Daisy 880.


    • BB:
      Also I do chrony ALL of my guns. Most Daisy 880 owners that I am aware of do. We tend to get much better results than you have. There is no reason to insult us for telling you what we get when we chrony our gun.




      • Are you certain the the cup seal that you are talking about is a 100% match for those in the Daisy 880′s?

        Also you did not mention the O-Rings (one on the piston and one in the abutment chamber).


        • I used the 2 O-rings that matched the valve head and the piston, shimmed with the Teflon tape. Hottest 880 I ever saw!



            • There is no cup seal. the O-ring on the sliding piston does the sealing and the flat face of the piston meets with the flat top of the valve head minimizing head space.


              • The metal plat that the piston presses into is the face of the check seal. The check seal behind that is a cup seal. That is what I was speaking about.

                As for the exhaust valve that is a poppet valve and the seal is a Teflon infused plastic.

                Yes the piston seal is an O-Ring, so is the seal for attaching the pump tube to the valve body.



                • Another trick I’ll give you, and you should read this Whole blog, along with my comments on my repairs in part 2, would be to fit an Oversized sponge oil wiper, in place of the original. This mod has a Significant impact on compression/velocity along with the other repair/modifications/”restomod”.

                  Reb


                  • Thank you for the Oil wiper trick. As far as other I have power modded one of my Daisy 880′s to the point of getting over 11.5FPE on 10 pumps.

                    Since I got into Power modding with my first Crosman 2289 I can not leave a new gun alone :).


                    • Be sure to read all that other stuff too. I’ll say it again, by the time I sold mine the pump arm was flexing over 2″ on the 10th pump. I have no chrony yet but will post the #’s when I gain access to one.



                  • Thank you Reb:
                    I have read your mods, and I will have to open my Daisy PowerLine 880 back up and do some more modifications, push the power up a bit more.

                    Also some of your mods will help with taking out some head space in my Crosman PowerMaster 66, Crosman 1389 Backpacker, and Crosman PumpMaster 760.

                    I especialy like the use of Teflon tape.


            • If you’re talking about the exhaust valve, I basically lapped it in. I didn’t mess with the intake valve. These are the parts I had mentioned in my earlier post, that would have to be ordered if no longer serviceable.


  17. I had the Sears version wih a gold plated side plate,but it was every inch
    a Daisy,but my kids ruined it in a month by over pumping and abuse
    I only wish I could of saved it for my collection, and I should of given the
    kids the standard version.All I have left is the Sears owners manual.


  18. @BB:
    Does the new Daisy 880 that you got have the F in a Pentagon mark on it. It was just pointed out to me that sometimes these get sold in the USA even they are much lower power than the Standard Daisy 880 for the USA.



      • wouldn’t that mark tell us that the gun is going to shoot less than 7.5J (5.53 ft/lbs) in order to be sold without a license in germany? pyramid air ships to germany right? they must comply with the rules everywhere they ship. so why would any gun with the “Freimark” shoot more powerfully than the laws allow? (7.9 gr pellet at 545 ft/sec) that would put the gun you just tested, just under that, at 5.21 ft/lbs, right? i wonder if there is an export model and another usa only one, but both use the same receiver molds.

        thanks again for taking your time to test this out, and as always you cause me to think of more questions.

        thanks,
        rob


      • Neither of my two new (less than 3 months old) Daisy 880′s have that mark.

        I think that might be the reason that you are getting the low numbers. So I would ask that you continue to test with this new Daisy 880 as well as your older Daisy 880. Just make sure to mention that it is a version that is legal to export to Germany and as such is restricted to 5FPE. So you may have a good Daisy 880 just power restricted :) .

        I think that Pyramyd Air may have only the restricted version due to dealing with international customers. I had gotten both of mine from another US only vendor. Yours likely represents the norm for Daisy 880′s purchased from Pyramyd Air.


        • DavidS,

          That is possible. But I want you to look at the top left side of your receiver, back by the tiny screw that holds the plastic receiver halves together. There should be a Freimark cast in the plastic within a half-inch of that screw.

          Take a look for me. It’s on both of the guns I have — the old one and the new one from China, though the mark on the Chinese-made gun is VERY faint!

          B.B.


          • It is not on either of mine. I have looked, and looked at the PA pic that shows it (very faintly) to verify that I was looking in the correct spot.



              • I appreciate it much. Also could you post some of the FPS numbers from Daisy 880′s that people purchased from Pyramyd Air with the 10 for 10?


                • David,

                  They send the chrony tickets to the customer; they don’t retain them. Also, I’m unsure how many people ordering a $46 gun will ask for a $10 test in light of the fact that they can return a slow gun on Pyramyd Air’s dime.

                  Edith


                  • Ok:
                    Then would it be to much to suggest that Pyramyd Air have a group of pretested high speed Daisy 880′s for an extra $15? I think that there are enough people out there that would be quite willing to pay the extra $15 for a gun that is known to shoot above 690FPS with real world pellets, and maintain a reasonable level of accuracy.

                    That is unless the Pyramyd Air batch is indeed F in a pentagon rated. Then that idea is null and void.

                    Have it PA verified or some such. Then take the units from the test batch that do not quite measure up and sell them at a $5 discount (so long as they function correctly)?


                    • They already have that! Pay ten for 10$ and exchange it in and just keep paying ten bucks till you get the speed you want, they might hate you for it but they’d be making money so it evens out.


              • i would ask for y’all to find out, for us, the truth. if the gun is “Freimark” compliant, it would shoot much slower than the 800fps, or even 715 fps. Freimark compliant would put it somewhere under 550fps. if PA sells the export model, that’s fine but the #’s on the site should reflect this.

                i still contend there are 2 models. one “Freimark” compliant, one for export. both are marked the same on the outside and on the box, i don’t know why…..?

                thanks for stepping in it for science.

                rob


                • B.B., They answered about the metal cocking levers, right? By the way I didn’t realize that’s what was happening, or would’ve said Thank You,Sir!


          • Correct me if Im wrong but the most recent bathes of 880 are said be be rated at 800 fps in bold letters on the packaging. But at $39 what more does one expect the barrels on most European springers cost 3x times that.


            • Chris,

              Classic issue. Daisy posts several different velocities for some of their guns. I checked their 880 manual online just last week, and it does not say 800 fps. The problem is lawsuits!

              I once asked Daisy why they print several different velocities in different places for their guns. Upper management said they put one velocity in one spot and another in another spot. No explanation provided. Therefore, 800 fps is on the boxes & on their site so they don’t get slammed by another lawsuit that accuses them of selling something powerful or dangerous. The manuals will often have lower velocities. I got the real scoop on this from B.B. :-)

              Edith


              • Gotcha, I do remember some while back Daisy being sued because of misuse of airgun, very sad case. Thank You and BB for this blog and your responses. Thanks again..


          • Tom,

            I just checked my 880. Like yours, its got a pentagon with a F in it on the left side of the receiver back by the small screws. Not sure if this helps or not, but I did not buy my 880 from PA. (I’d say where I got mine, but I’m not sure if its kosher to mention the big-box retailer by name.)

            Also worth noting… Since I don’t have a chronograph, I normally test my airguns’ power levels on soup cans. I seem to recall that when I first got my 880 it would put a pellet through both sides of a soup can. However given that it’s been shot a fair amount I doubt it would do that now.

            J.


  19. “I think most Daisy 880 owners probably don’t chronograph their guns, and they’re happier for it.”

    I think that’s probably a pretty safe assumption. Given the Daisy 880′s price point and who is likely to buy one, I also think that’s probably a pretty accurate assumption.


    • I think that is inaccurate. Most I know buy the Daisy 880 as a good small game hunting gun, and thus I think that most chronograph it.

      The Daisy 880 is an Adult MSP with the needed power so what else would we buy it for?


      • Topping out at around 600, I would suggest to your friends that small game with an 880 is borderline inhuman past 10 yards, 50$ more and you won’t have to worry so much. I’ve taken game from 700fps and up but that low was in absolute confidence of shot placement. Not saying it cant be done, and even my own suggestion of the trail np pistol, should be advised against only because we’ll then entice the inexperienced to pick up these medium powered plunkers for hunting.



        • Both of my Daisy 880′s topped out quite a bit higher than that factory stock. With in a few FPS of 700 with Crosman Premier Domes at 7.9 grain (one slightly low and the other slightly high). And I have power modded both since.

          Just you got a poor shooting Daisy 880 at the low end of QC does not mean that we did.

          And every Daisy 880 that I have used will produce up to 9.5FPE at 12 pumps with 9.68 grain Winchester pellets.


          • Never have owned an 880, had plenty of 760s and airmaster77s and some others, I don’t know the 880 personally so what Im talking is pure ft lbs energy, and not everybody buying an 880 is going to power mod it up, so my advisement stands. If you look at the package for the 880 does it say suggested use small game/pest control? Does pyramyds suggested use say either? That was all my point was, out of the box for most the 880 is not qualified for hunting/pest control. And you disagreed with what B.B. said that most buyers of the 880 are not running it over a chrony, he is right, most people buying a 40$ airgun aren’t getting it to test the velocity with a chrony costing 3X as much. Your the exception here not the rule, and of course there are others that make this exception. Believe me when I mean no offense, I saw the folly in myself suggesting the pistol. That’s not what they are meant for because the majority will not supe up and zero in and hold perfect and smoothly engage the trigger and follow through the shot of a medium powered airgun.


            • Ah ok, I see where you are coming from. I had been tought from the time that I was a young child that I should not hunt with any AirGun, PB Gun, or Bow unless I can consistently hit a target less than half the size of the kill zone of the smallest thing I will hunt at least 10 yards further than the longest rang shot to take while hunting. And this is the reason that every one of the AirGuns that I hunt with gets at least 50 shots of target practice every single day with out exception.

              Though I can see how not every one would follow such strict rules, and for some the Daisy 880 may not be an appropriate hunting gun. Thank you fro pointing this out.


              • No problems, its hard for me to imagine not being obsessed with accuracy and efficiency as well. I doubt there’s a huge following of this blog without any knowledge whatsoever, otherwise you couldn’t really have found yourself here, but we should try to acknowledge the pure beginners. I wish I could go back to those days of complete abuse of rifling, that was one of many offenses committed back then. Thanks for being understanding of what I meant.


        • My 618 was under 500fps, but it was so accurate that I’ d take up to a half dozen Eurasians a day, using Daisy wadcutters @ 10-20 yards. Dropped ‘em like a rock!


      • If it is marked with the Pentagon-F, it is not powerful enough for killing anything bigger than common grey house mice (whereas the white-footed field mouse is aggressive enough it might attack if shot just to show its displeasure*)

        {the greys caught in glue traps tend to just sit exhaustedly looking depressed; white-footeds caught in glue traps tend to chew the edges of the trap off, and even try to nip me when I take the trap to the dumpster}



        • I’m probably going to draw some official ire for this one, but it needs to be said…

          “If it is marked with the Pentagon-F, it is not powerful enough for killing anything bigger than common grey house mice …”
          I can say from experience that you are incorrect. Its been a 4 years ago (dang, has I really had this 880 that long…), but I knocked a gray squirrel out of a tree with 1 hit to the head from my 880 at about 40-50 feet during squirrel season. The squirrel was dead by the time it hit the ground. And my 880 has a Pentagon-F on its receiver.

          That doesn’t mean I think the Daisy 880 makes a super-amazing, bestest possible, hunting airgun. Its not by any means. (And if you want to hunt, you’re better off getting a more powerful airgun, even if it is a cheap, Chinese-made 12-15 ft-lb springer.) But the 880 is more capable than you’re giving it credit for provided you put the pellet in the right spot and respect the gun’s limitations (AKA limit yourself to head-shots at very close range).


      • I’m just going to focus on one part of your comment since the rest of the stuff has been addressed by rifledDNA.

        “The Daisy 880 is an Adult MSP with the needed power so what else would we buy it for?”

        I can’t speak for anyone else, but these days I mainly use my 880 for plinking soda cans at 50 feet or so.


        • Ok. I always think of plinking as a secondary :) . I had not thought that it may be a primary for some.
          Thank you for that.


          • No problem. We all tend to be a bit focused on how we use stuff. For what its worth, I imagine a lot of people probably use the Daisy 880 (and the Crosman 760 for that matter) as starter guns and plinkers for older kids learning to shoot because of the relatively low cost. Hence why I pointed out plinking as a primary use for some. :)


  20. B.B., after a rather prolonged slump I am breaking the barrel again. We have cats and each morning we pull the top off a 5.5 ounce can for their breakfast (they get dry food the rest of the day). After throwing so very many away my wife was inspired to suggest I use them for targets. By design they hang nicely on a nail. I still throw them away but now they are full of holes. ~Ken



    • Ken
      I save my old pellet tins. The ones that have screw on lids I save and put stuff in them like o-rings and parts for my guns. The pellet tins that have the snap on lids get used for target practice.



        • Reb
          Ha ha, I know what you mean. Me to at home and more at my brothers house. I was just talking about the small stuff and a way to keep it organized. I put a piece of masking tape on the lid and mark whats in it. At least it keeps me somewhat organized.

          I’m like that with my tools in my tool box also. When I had the tool box tray that I took under the muscle car when I was at the dragstrip it was organized so I could just feel where the wrench or what ever I needed was with out having to reposition myself to look. Made things go a little faster and easier that way.


          • I have an empty tool box because all of the tools are in the third drawer of my bureau where they are accessible for all my “tinkering”. Its one of those tall dresser bureaus. Top drawer is all paperwork, second is all parts, targets, pellets, airgun specific miscellaneous, thirds all the tools. In desperate need of a “man town”.



  21. BB:
    You said:
    “I think most Daisy 880 owners probably don’t chronograph their guns”
    Most of the Daisy 880 owners that I know of do chrony there gun. The Daisy 880 is a good small game hunting gun if you get a good one. Also you need to chronograph it to do well with target shooting.

    It is an adult air gun that has good power and fairly good accuracy so these are the two reasons to buy this gun. I could understand if it were a kids gun, though it is not.

    Thank you again for taking the time to test a newer Daisy 880.


    • DavidS
      When you chrony your 880 how do use that data in relation to hunting. I have a few ideas but maybe you can teach me a new trick.

      I’m serious. I’m not try to be a smart you know what.


      • Well it is about point of aim. You need to know how much to adjust at what range for the arch of the pellet in order to hit the very small head shot kill zone on small game 100% of the time.

        In the process of learning a new gun you need to know how fast it is shooting and calculate the numbers from that for the flight path with your preffered pellet for that gun. These numbers then help you to learn to hit the target accurately regardless of distance by helping to learn the correct hold-over and hold-under to hit the kill zone every time.

        So it is the same reason it is needed for target shooting.


        • DavidS
          Ok I just talked about that on yesterdays blog about FT. I got a few pump guns and a chrony; well and a bunch of other type of airguns also.

          I got a Discovery barrel and breech on a 1377 pistol with the 1399 stock and the See All sight. I was using different pumps to determine POI at different ranges. And was shooting 5 shot groups to get a pattern established.

          But I didn’t chrony the gun because all that would do is put a number associated with that amount of pumps at that range and to me anyway the fps would be a useless number unless I was using the gun to shoot at pests or such. That way I would want to know if the gun is making enough energy to kill the pest if you know what I mean. I guess chronying the gun at different pumps more than one shot at that amount of pumps would tell me if the gun will be consistent or not though. So yes there would be some benefit.


  22. Now, I’m starting to wonder about Daisy. Derrick just got my 747 in the mail, and after some minor adjustments, it’s working well! Maybe this is an example of the black hole that guns go into when they are in transit for repair. But I can say that nothing like this has happened with my IZH 61 which continues to wear like iron except for a spring replacement every now and then.

    Matt61


    • I think the problem is that BB’s two Daisy 880′s both have the “F in a Pentagon” rating to be legal to export to Germany. That means that they are restricted to 5.5FPE at the muzzle. The ones that are made for US only usage are a different story.


    • Matt61
      I hope I don’t get one of my dreaded double posts here. I made a reply and it didn’t show up so here it goes again.

      You know I have said these air guns have personality’s.

      I think your gun is just being stubborn right now and not wanting to listen. But at least you sent it away for some training to Derrick again. I think your gun will behave a little better when it gets back home this time. :)



        • Hello Edith
          We are having a thunder storm and some wind when I made the post. I’m on my lap top at home. I looked down at the bottom of my screen and I think I lost my wireless connection when I hit the submit button. So another one of those little technical things with modern technology you know.

          But I believe the magic is still out there. Thanks. :)



  23. Update on airgun club in worcester ma area- I’ve found a place to go that will allow airguns on their range, is open to me starting an airgun match/club. The north oxford rod and gun club is also having a discount for new members that attend an April 11th meeting. First year is 160$ and 110$a year after that. People that come to that meeting pay 110$ first year. Unfortunately I’ve spent my airgun allotment recently on the new np .22, but I will be joining as soon as possible for my own shooting pleasures and will from then on be collecting as many people to join as possible. Members can bring one guest so two people could essentially split a membership. I will keep you posted when I do get to join and hopefully we can get a group together and start a club.



      • Im excited to be one step closer, hopefully someday it’ll be worthy of a visit from Tom, that’s something to work towards.. do you happen to know the dimensions of ten meter AR competition targets in inches? Im out and trying to draw some but all Im finding is millimeters and its not translating correctly, it says 45.5 mm as the outside diameter and that’s only 1.79 “….. ?


        • AR-5 target,, each target on the sheet ( 12),, is 1 25/32 wide, with 1 3/16 being black with white lines. Each of the 9 divisions are about 3/32 and the dot in the center is approximately 3/64.

          This is the target used for precision air rifle tournaments. It has ten “record” targets surrounding two “sighting” targets.
          Ed



  24. The Daisy 880 is a starter air gun and a disposable one at that because of the extremely low price($45.95).This test BB is doing is a clear indication what to expect I do like the 880s I have three in my collection that I reported the crono’s on part 2 of the Daisy 880 blog comment’s. Again its a OK inexpensive/cheap gun, every one of the 880 will need to be modified by their owners to stabilize the wobbly barrel for better accuracy not to mention the loose stock that will happen over time especially in hand of kids with adult supervision. So if you want a airgun that last a long time and pass on to your kids/grand kids this is not a good option.


    • Chris,

      I doubt if anyone really buys an 880 with the intention of making it a family heirloom. But they are enjoyable guns to have in the collection, as you have discovered. I own two of them, and a late-model 856.

      I really like the 856 better to shoot, but the 880s are more attractive. The 880 is cheap to buy, but it is also cheap to repair, so it should be possible to use one as long as replacement parts are available. The 880′s replacement parts add up to a cost no larger than the assembled gun. How many things can you say that about?

      And the customer service at Daisy is great. If you need an exploded drawing or parts list, they will e-mail you one. Shipping is fast, too.

      Altogether, I think the 880 is a great deal for the money. It is a classic coming-of-age air rifle that even kids can afford. It is the perfect step up from the Crosman 760.

      Les


    • I like what you say for more than one reason and consider it to be accurate in as far as being inexpensive and not very durable, replacement parts are available and inexpensive and some can be improvised or reworked. I also like that some people consider them disposable, making a used one even less expensive, or FREE!



      • chris
        I agree with you 100%. A very good example of what cost in relation to what type of gun you have and what it is. And yes so true. I like my old 760 just as much as my .25 caliber Marauder that I have done too much stuff to. I wouldn’t get rid of either one of them.


    • I understand that any Airgun can be abused to death. Though the Current Daisy 880 is a lot more sturdy than the old Wood and Steel models. For this reason I must disagree.

      Not to mention that if you get a good one these are very accurate and powerful guns, especially at this price point. And if you get one that is not up to snuff it is easy to get it there at little to no cost.

      Further if you enjoy power modding this is an excellent gun for that purpose. And if cared for it will last forever. It is one of the best ADULT MSP air guns that I have ever shot.


      • David you are 100% right. I tend to reply to air guns I’ve had or have and while the Daisy 880 is a good gun I sometime point out the week point and also good. When I first saw a Beeman R1 on PA web site I couldn’t comprehend the cost compare to a Daisy 880 or a Marlin mod 60 22lr till I actually held and shot one. I don’t wanna compare apples to oranges just want to put out there were the Daisy 880 sits among the competition for the many readers who don’t respond. This 3 part blog of Daisy 880 sound to me like BB was using my 3 880s in his test.




        • By adult MSP I mean it is an MSP air gun that you DO NOT want to give a kid as a first gun. The Daisy 880 is way to powerful to give a kid to teach them safety, and shooting technique. It is also designed in size for adult usage. I hope that answers your question. Power and size.

          Also the Daisy 880 is primarily a Pellet gun. Its barrel is not good for use with BB’s.

          If you want a gun for your kid get a Daisy Grizzly 840, or for even younger kids get a Red Rider.



            • Not if she is ready for it. If she is ready for it, and ready to handle it safely thane great.

              I was thinking of more a first gun situation, like you would give to a 7 year old to teach them to be safe.


  25. Aheem . . ., the reminder is back. In reference to your response, to the blog of 2014-03-24 ~ in reference to lubrication; I asked the question ( you may like, & me too), . . . “would a good Preventative Maintenance measure for an AF tank valve assembly (Spin-Loc) be; (1) or (2) drops of “air chamber silicone oil” added to the nipple, every 1K – 2K rounds? Or is that “asking for it”?!!”

    I see by a previous (above) blog responder that they lubricate valves (what-ever that is ~ PCP or ?) “every other season”. Is that frequency adequate, valid or appropriate?


    • Rich
      I don’t know if this is the right way to maintain a PCP gun. But this is something I do.

      But first here is some of the guns I got and some of the equipment I have for PCP guns. I had a Air Force Talon SS but just sold it recently. I have 2 Marauders right now. A .25 cal. that’s got bunches of stuff done to it. And a new .177 cal. synthetic stock Marauder that has nothing done to it. Also just sold my old wood stock .177 cal. Marauder. And here is one of the PCP guns that I have that I keep a real close eye on. To much money involved in it to not take care of it. Its a FX Monsoon in .22 cal.

      Then I got my trusty Benjamin hand pump and a Hill pump. And then here is the other one that I make sure I take care of. Because if I don’t I will be pumping my butt off. I have a ShoeBox compressor to fill my Benjamin carbonfiber 4500 psi buddy tank.

      I didn’t buy this stuff in 2 days if you know what I mean and I did a lot of overtime that I really didn’t want to do to get this stuff. So taking care of it is top priority for me.

      But here is the magic ingredient that I use on my PCP guns and equipment.
      http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Hill_Hand_Pump_NLGI_2_Silicone_Grease_40g/3888

      I will usually put a small dab on the male Foster fitting and smear it around and then put a little dab in the hole on my gun and compressor. Then my AirForce gun was a old style tank that you had to screw the adapter on to fill. It wasn’t a spin lock tank. So I would put a little dab on the top hat and wipe it around then a little dab in the opening.

      I will do this every time I fill. But when I say a dab its like you can’t even see it on my finger. It will be just enough to like make a dull surface shine when you touch it. A very, very thin film. The main thing is I don’t want the o-rings to get dry. But I don’t want them saturated either. So that’s why I wipe it on the male fittings.

      I hope I didn’t make it sound to confusing. And that’s the routine I follow so maybe other people have their way that they can tell about also. I do know for a fact that over lubricating can be just as bad as no lubrication. Because I did that with my ShoeBox compressor when I got it. So like anything you just need to do it. But don’t over do it.


  26. Everyone,

    I just head from Joe Murfin at Daisy. Joe is the VP of marketing.

    Like I thought, ALL 880s are Freimarked, and they are all supposed to develop the same power.

    Joe has asked for the serial number of the new gun I tested, so his QC guy can look into the problem.

    B.B.


    • BB
      Im going to ask this. Is there really a problem with the fps that your gun is making?

      There has to be variables in the types of materials that are used in a 50 dollar gun or however much it costs. And I would bet the process used to make the componants of the gun are not the same as thier Avanti line of guns. Maybe Im wrong about that statement. But Im thinking the process is not the same.

      I guess it makes me wonder also if each gun is tested for a specific fps before it leaves the factory. I also wonder what weight pellet they use if they do test.And then what happens to those guns if they dont make the given fps that they established as acceptable. Do they take them guns down and inspect them for the cause of the problem. And do they do any kind of tests on the assembly line. Like when they assemble the tranfer port valve.

      Just wonder if you may know of any of the process they use.


      • I’m obviously not Tom, but I’m going to try to respond to some of the stuff Gunfun1 raised in his post here.

        “I’m going to ask this. Is there really a problem with the fps that your gun is making?”

        There’s probably not a simple answer for that question. In an absolute sense, the answer would probably be no. Tom made the point that without a chronograph he would have enjoyed his 880 as it was since he wouldn’t have a way of measuring muzzle velocity and wouldn’t have worried about it. And if you just use an 880 for shooting soda cans, eggs, or paper targets in the back yard it doesn’t really matter if you’re getting 550 fps or 700 fps. Once you learn the proper hold and get the sights set, you should be able to hit the target and that’s all most folks probably want to do.

        The issue that emerged in the reviews is that there appears to be a significant variation in energy level from gun to gun. (As well as a trend for the energy levels to drop as 880s get older.) And since Tom’s reviews normally carry a significant amount of weight, people were a bit “vocal” shall we say about pointing out the difference and wanting to make sure the 880 got a fair shake by giving it the chance to perform. Which it now has had. That doesn’t necessarily mean that all 880s will produce numbers that match Tom’s. Some may do better. Some may do about the same. Maybe even some will do worse. Not meeting the published velocities is a quality control issue as much as anything since it indicates the internals may not be quite up to snuff in some guns.

        “There has to be variables in the types of materials that are used in a 50 dollar gun or however much it costs.”

        I seem to recall a guest blog where someone explained how quality control is done. If you’re really interested you could probably find it with a search. I’m probably getting a bunch of stuff wrong and dreadfully over-simplifying it, but I’ll try to explain it in short form… The basic materials are probably all the same, or at least the same within a certain margin of error. Ditto on parts. They’ll be mass produced to a certain standard that they can’t exceed by a certain margin (tolerance). The differences in performance would probably result from the tolerances, quality of materials, and how carefully the manufacturing process is performed. Probably the easiest way to illustrate this is with another Chinese built gun, the QB78. Stephen Archer has a video and blog entry where he points out that just replacing the factory O-rings and breech seal with better quality ones will usually add about 70 fps give or take a bit. That’s because during manufacturing the lower-quality factory breech seal can be crushed and that constricts the flow of co2. Since the 880 is an inexpensive, mass-produced gun built in China, the same sorts of quality control issues probably affect it.

        “And I would bet the process used to make the components of the gun are not the same as their Avanti line of guns. Maybe I’m wrong about that statement. But I’m thinking the process is not the same.”

        Actually I would disagree with you there. Unless all the parts in the Avanti guns are hand-made and assembled (like a gunsmith would have done back in the early 1800s), I would imagine the same basic mass production processes used on the 880 are used on the Avanti guns. The difference is that since the Avanti’s are usually (a lot) more expensive the tolerances are tighter, the materials are probably better quality, and more care is probably taken during assembly. So the finished product is going to be better quality. If it helps, its like comparing the difference between an inexpensive .22 bolt-action (like say the Daisy model 8 Tom tested recently) and a high-end .22 bolt action (like say the Kimber 82C or Sako Finfire). Both guns may go bang (at least most of the time), but the Kimber is more likely to work correctly every time, last a lot longer, and probably produce better groups.

        “I guess it makes me wonder also if each gun is tested for a specific fps before it leaves the factory.”
        This is probably just a wild guess but given what Stephen Archer said about the breech seals in the QB78, but I think its more likely that they probably just test to see that the gun is functioning. And they may not even test every gun. They may just pull 1 gun from every lot (say ever 10 or 100 guns) test it for function, and only look more closely at the lot if the test gun fails to function. Then again what do I know maybe they test function, durability, and performance. I don’t know what QC standards Daisy insisted on.


      • GF1,

        J. gave a wonderful answer, but I will add to it.

        No testing of any kind is done on 95 percent of all guns manufactured — both firearms and airguns. Once the makers know they have the manufacturing process down and that it will build products within specifications, the only testing they might do is sampling off the production line — not of finished guns but of the parts that go into them.

        Testting like you mention went out decades ago. Some small builder still do test, but in larger companies, it isn’t done anymore.

        B.B.


        • I would hope those firearms proof markings aren’t just stamped as part of the finishing line without having a proof load fired.



            • I could be wrong about this, so I’m going to explain my understanding of what a proof mark denotes to ensure I’m not basing this on faulty logic. If I am, please feel free to point out my error. Unless I’m mistaken, in the firearms industry a proof mark means a gun has been tested with a load that is several times more powerful than normal to make sure that it is safe and will not explode.

              If my understanding of what a proof mark represents is correct, then the counter argument is that the freimark isn’t a technically a firearms proof-mark. If I’m reading the summary of German airgun laws correctly, it denotes an airgun that is not subject to German firearms laws because it produces less than 7.5 joules of muzzle energy not that a gun has been tested with a proof load to ensure it is safe to fire. So if the relevant regulatory body has tested a given model (probably through a representative sample) and confirmed it produces less than 7.5 joules muzzle energy, I’m not sure that a company would have to test each gun so long as there were no changes to the design/specs since all the guns of that model should be fairly close to the same performance, allowing for a certain margin of error due to the previously mentioned in the discussion about quality control and how it affects performance. Then again what do I know. I’m not a lawyer specializing in German airgun laws. Though it might be worth kicking that question to someone at Daisy, Crosman, or PA who does deal with these sorts of issues to get a more informed opinion.

              I think that last bit is also partially related to why people reacted so vocally to the initial performance results Tom reported. But again I think I mentioned that in the mini-book I wrote last night.


              • And I just looked over the comments again, and realized Tom and Wulfraed may have been talking about firearms when they made the comments about testing being 100%.

                /me bangs head against wall…

                I gotta stop posting stuff late at night when I’m tired.



                  • I was tired and thought they were saying that a freimark was the same as a proof mark. Hence my follow-up comment about replying when its late and I’m tired.


    • That’s interesting and actually a bit confusing. So if all 880s are freimarked, what does that say, if anything, about the power level for the 880? Does it mean that its going to be less than the 7.5 joule (5.5 ft-lb) limit? If so how does Daisy reconcile that with its stated velocity/power claims which peg the 880 as being over that limit? Or am I overthinking things?


      • J,

        I’m confused, as well. But I don’t believe we will get a straight answer. I do know that Freimarked guns cannot exceed 7.5 joules, and I doubt Daisy would treat that lightly.

        B.B.


        • That was why I was wondering about it. I can’t see Daisy putting a freimark on a gun that they know would exceed the 7.5 joule limit. The consequences would just be too unpleasant, both for the customers who buy the gun (legal troubles) and for Daisy (legal troubles and possibly being barred from selling at least some of their guns in the country). But at the same time the reported power levels on the 880 are all over the place (with some guns being over and some being compliant with the 7.5 joule limit)…

          I wonder if the Germans specify the ammunition the gun has to be tested with or if the company simply says they’ve tested it (and provide the chronograph readings, ammunition weight, and KE figures) and that it complies with the law. If that’s the case, I wonder if Daisy tests the 880 with BBs instead of pellets… Like you said we probably won’t get a straight answer…


          • J.
            I thank you and BB both for your answer. And it got me thinking after BB’s response about him talking to Joe Murfin at Daisy.

            I have worked at a machine shop for a bunch of years and worked on many different projects that came up through time and had many different responsibility’s through out time.

            And I was curious to know what kind of work procedures Daisy follows. And I want to make it known that I like Daisy guns all the way from their cheepy’s to the expensive ones. And I do know that Daisy has been in trouble in the past. So anytime these type of conversations come up they could be taken the wrong way.

            And I didn’t want to bring this up because I have mixed feelings about this. The different problems with China producing products. I have said it in the past and I will say it again. The people of China are smart people no doubt. But there processes do not seem to be as controlled as other countries around the world. I can speak from experience on that part. In a round about way the machine shop that I work at has had parts made in China. (don’t no exactly how that decision got made to produce the parts in China) It seriously only will take about a month and we will be producing the parts again because of numerous reasons.

            I do know that Crosman has parts (Not) made in the USA now.But is supposedly assembled in the USA. At least that way Crosman can keep a eye on the products they receive from the out sourced party.

            But I will say this the companies are messing with trouble by not doing the work themselves. And if out sourcing is suppose to be a way to save a buck it my be all fine and dandy now. But in the long run after things start showing up wrong it could hurt in a big way and in more ways than one.

            I said up in the beginning of the blog that I didn’t want to make a remark about China but I went and done it again. All I can say is the companies better beware.


  27. OK, Tom: NOW I agree: I see the small pentagon & “F” for Freimark on my Mart-of-Wall purchased Daisy 880 (about 2 months ago) on the left rear of the plastic receiver. This one, now broken in by about 300 shots is delivering ~583 fps avg ((at 6 pumps)) on a diet of 7.9 gr Crosman Prem Domed Lts, thus 6.0 ft-lbs. AND, the Std Dev’n is 0.6%: I like that consistency. Looks like your newbie Daisy was “not the best”…


  28. Now is one of those times when it would be nice to know what Daisy’s work instructions would read.
    I wonder if they follow something equivalent to QS9000 standards in the airgun manufacturing world?

    I bet not.

    BB you seen some airgun plants. Did they have work instructions and quality alerts posted at the work stations? I’m kind of thinking that maybe the airgun world follows their own set of rules when it comes to quality.

    Just a guess.



      • BB
        I kind of thought it was like that. We do automobile work and military. There is nothing but paper work and procedures on how to do the work. We have inspectors that go around and check parts and assembly’s at different stages. Then they even have a procedure to follow for how the part is checked and how often.

        Its all kind of a pain in the butt. But if you think about it. It protects the person making or assembling the parts and of course the company.

        So that’s the whole thing about the products or parts that are not being made here. And then talking about the airgun companies. I’m sure that they have tool logs and such to keep track of how often a tool should be changed and so on. Usually that doesn’t happen with the China companies. They will run the tools in to the ground if you know what I mean.

        And then take a look at the FX airgun company. Look at all of the procedures they go through to make their guns. The video of the company shows the owner hand straighting each barrel before it is approved to be placed on a gun. I would say that I’m taking a good guess nothing like that is happening with the China companies.

        I could go on and on about quality and procedures but I think you know were I’m coming from.


  29. B.B. have you (or anyone else on here) every tested a Daisy 901? If you haven’t, I’m not asking you too. Just wondering if it was also easy to pump and what was different (other than looks) compared to the 880. I was looking at all the multi pump rifles on PA’s site, the 901 is the highest rated of all of them (throwing out anything with less than 10 reviews). Thanks, Bradly


  30. I just bought a remanufactured Daisy Powerline 880 @ CAL Ranch on 12/12/14. Came with a scope. (BTW, where can I find the date of manufacture on the gun… it’s gotta be stamped somewhere, right?) I’m using “unleaded” Gamo Raptors. Love the gun… it’s got such a nice “SNAP!” (or would it be a “CRACK!”?) when you pull the trigger… compared to my Marksman “Zombie Splat” BB Repeater rifle (using Crosman Copperheads (made in USA, baby!)). At 46 yrs. old, I still consider myself a Toys R Us kid! :-D Never owned a gun before (except an Airsoft gun or two last year). Won’t go near “real guns”. Too loud and scary for my taste!

    With all the arguing over the age of one 880 and the poor performance of a new 880 and one oil being better than the other… has anyone tried using different lubes? You know, like Transmission Fluid, Gear Oil, Brake Fluid, or even Tractor Grease (the thick grey-black stuff you lube tractor hydraulics with… used to hafta do that with our tractor in Acton, CA when I was a kid (8-12 yrs. old)). The thicker, the better, right?

    And… the scope that came with my 880… why is it I can’t see though the thing? No, I have both lens covers off… and it’s facing the right way (first time I installed it, couldn’t figure out why the image was so tiny! HA!). But this black blob obscures my view most of the time. If I angle the gun a certain way and hold my eye at a certain angle, I can sometimes get a nice view, but other than that, it’s usually either totally blacked out or I see things though a tiny hole with the rest black, like I’m looking thorough a pupil or something!

    What on earth is going on?

    Lastly, my 880 is super easy to pump. I mean, EVERY pump is just like the previous one (up to the full 10). Maybe a tiny difference, but barely noticeable. I remember the BB gun (I think it was a Daisy, back in Acton, CA when I was 8-12 yrs. old) my friend had was harder and harder to pump, every pump (don’t recall what the maximum was back then, but I think 10 was really pushing it!). Was it just my kid muscles back then or did that gun have a better pump mechanism?


    • Luposian,

      Welcome to the blog!

      I have no idea about dating an 880. They were never made with dates, as far as I know. Maybe there is a code on them, but I haven’t looked into it.

      As for the scope, the light that exits the eyepiece is called the exit pupil. It is a cone of light that is only about 2-3mm wide when it reaches your eye. If you are no aligned with this light, the scope will be black. You have to move your head until the image becomes bright.

      B.B.


  31. HELP! I have an older Daisy Powerline 880, All metal except grips and had the foam washer fail. Replaced the foam washer and now reassembling everything.The pump-tube and chamber-valve-seat and pump don’t seem to be installed correctly. The pump tube wants to slide out when I try and pump it up. No pressure being built, I’ve looked at the videos on Youtube and they all seem to be for the newer models which have a different pressure tube, pump seat, etc. Any help appreciated.


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