AirForce EscapeSS: Part 1

by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier

AirForce Escape: Part 1
AirForce Escape: Part 2
AirForce Escape: Part 3
AirForce EscapeUL: Part 1
AirForce EscapeUL: Part 2
AirForce EscapeUL: Part 3

This report covers:

• Summary of the AirForce Escape report up to this point.
• There are three different air rifles.
• EscapeSS is quieter.
• EscapeSS description.
• How does the EscapeSS differ from the TalonP pistol?
• What comes next?

It’s been a while since we last looked at the AirForce Escape air rifles. To date, we’ve seen the power, accuracy and general characteristics of the AirForce Escape and the EscapeUL, which is the ultra-light version. Today, we’ll start looking at the EscapeSS, which is the version of the rifle with some sound muting.

We’ve seen that the Escape rifles can generate tremendous power — up to 97.88 foot-pounds of muzzle energy from the Escape rifle when the heaviest .25-caliber pellets are used. We’ve also learned that the Escape rifles are at their most accurate when the fill pressure is lowered and the power is dialed back. That held true for both the Escape and the EscapeUL, so it seems to be a trend; and I’ll use that experience when testing the EscapeSS.

There are three rifles!
Before moving on, I want to emphasize there are three different air rifles. The Escape, EscapeUL and EscapeSS all have different specifications and deliver different performance. I’m telling you this because customers are starting to run the model names together and getting confused over which rifle does what.

EscapeSS three rifles
The three Escape rifles are the Escape (top), the EscapeSS (center) and the EscapeUL (bottom).

Each of these air rifles is unique and different from the others. The Escape is the most powerful of the bunch. The EscapeUL is the smallest and lightest, and the EscapeSS that we’re looking at today is the quietest of the three.

If you forget how the first two rifles performed, I urge you to go back to the reports linked above and catch up. I intend reporting on just one rifle in this report — the EscapeSS.

EscapeSS
The EscapeSS is a smaller rifle with a 12-inch barrel inside a frame that acts as a shroud.

Quieter rifle
The SS is the quiet version of the Escape — just like the Talon SS is the quiet Talon and the CondorSS is the quiet Condor.

To achieve this quieter report, the EscapeSS has three baffles ahead of its muzzle. They’re held tight in the frame by a Belleville washer ahead of the last baffle and behind the end cap.

EscapeSS baffles
Inside the EscapeSS shroud/frame are three Delrin baffles and a Belleville washer to keep them from rattling.

I’ve already been to the range and can report that the EscapeSS really is quieter than either the Escape or the EscapeUL. It has the same recoil of the other two, which is greater than the recoil of a medium-weight .22 rimfire rifle, but the sound is greatly reduced.

However — just because the muzzle report is greatly reduced from the Escape does not mean the EscapeSS is a quiet rifle. While it’s much quieter outdoors than a .22 rimfire, it’s also louder than a Benjamin 392 pumped 8 times. The EscapeSS is not for suburban backyards! It’s more of a quieter hunting air rifle for public lands. I doubt it would be noticed beyond a half-mile away.

The EscapeSS description
The EscapeSS is a precharged pneumatic air rifle that comes in both .22 and .25 calibers. It has a 12-inch Lothar Walther barrel; but like all AirForce sporting rifles, it can accept barrels of any length. It can also accept other calibers, but I don’t believe I’d try one in .177 caliber because this powerplant is so overwhelmingly powerful that it would be hamstrung by such a small bore size.

The rifle weighs 4.3 lbs., and its length varies from 27.75-inches to 32.25-inches — depending on how the shoulder stock is adjusted.

The rifle is made on an aircraft aluminum frame that houses all the parts, including the barrel. The 213cc air reservoir can be filled to 3,000 psi, nominally giving about 10 powerful shots. Like all AirForce sporting air rifles, the EscapeSS has adjustable power via an adjustment wheel located on the left side of the frame.

How does the EscapeSS differ from the TalonP pistol?
I have to address this issue before the questions start flooding in. Sharp observation will notice that both the EscapeSS and the TalonP have the same 12-inch barrel (that comes in both .22 and .25 calibers), and they share the identical powerplants. So, what makes them different?

First, the TalonP frame is shorter. This makes the gun smaller, but it also means there’s no room for the baffles. The TalonP is louder than the EscapeSS at the same power.

Next, the TalonP comes without the extendable shoulder stock. You can purchase one as an accessory if you like, but the basic pistol comes without it. The EscapeSS is a rifle that comes standard with the shoulder stock.

The EscapeSS and TalonP should both develop comparable power when they’re set up the same way. But the TalonP is more compact, and the EscapeSS is more of a carbine-length rifle. You have to decide which is best for you. You can always add the shoulder stock to a TalonP, but you cannot make it as quiet as an EscapeSS.

As I said, I’ve already been to the range with the EscapeSS. I used the experience obtained when testing both the Escape and EscapeUL rifles instead of testing every pellet in the rifle. And I knew beforehand that the fill pressure and power settings needed to be lowered, so I started low and worked around until I found the best combination.

EscapeSS power
We know that the EscapeSS has a 12-inch barrel. Knowing how barrel length affects velocity, we know that the velocities for this rifle are going to be lower than for either of the other 2 rifles. But when I tested the rifle, I discovered something I didn’t expect.

All these tests used the 43.3-grain Eun Jin pointed pellet. On high power with a 3,000 psi fill, the first 5 shots gave the following results.

Shot Vel.
1     785
2     776
3     763
4     749
5     739

This gives an average of 763 f.p.s for the first 5 shots. At the end of the shooting, the tank pressure still read 2,500 psi. At the top velocity (shot 1), this pellet produces 59.26 foot-pounds of muzzle energy. At the average velocity, this pellet produces 55.99 foot-pounds.

I then dialed the power setting to 8 and refilled the tank to 3,000 psi. That gave the following results.

Shot Vel.
1     784
2     763
3     759
4     748
5     736

That gives us an average velocity of 756 f.p.s. Not very different, is it? The tank pressure after these 5 shots read 2,400 psi. At the top velocity, the muzzle energy was 59.11 foot-pounds. At the average velocity, the energy was 54.97 foot-pounds.

Then, I dialed down the power to 4 and got a huge surprise. That gave the following results.

Shot Vel.
1     801
2     779
3     767
4     758
5     741

The average velocity for this string was 769 f.p.s. — the highest in the test! At the top velocity, this pellet produced 61.70 foot-pounds of muzzle energy. At the average velocity, it made 56.87 foot-pounds! So, the rifle was more powerful on power setting 4 than it was with the power wheel dialed up as high as it will go. The rifle’s ending tank pressure read 2,500 psi.

The 12-inch barrel is showing up in these results. Clearly the rifle is wasting air with this pellet when the power is set above a certain low number. I think the number is around 4, but it would take more testing to know for sure.

That’s as much velocity testing as I’m going to do now because it isn’t helpful. I’ll come back and do a more thorough velocity test when I know which pellets this gun likes. With this gun, it isn’t just about power. Accuracy is also very important. The best combination of both is what we’re looking for.

In my next report, I’ll show you the results of the first accuracy test, which are very encouraging.

The next step in testing the Escape rifles
After we complete testing the EscapeSS rifle for accuracy, we’ll start the next phase of testing for all 3 rifles. That will be testing their velocity at the most accurate setting with the most accurate pellet or pellets.

Following that, I’ll install a .22-caliber barrel in the Escape and test that. If I see enough difference between the Escape and the Condor, we may do more testing in that caliber, but I don’t know yet. It’s too far into the future to know for sure.

75 thoughts on “AirForce EscapeSS: Part 1

  1. Interesting that the power went up as you dialed the power wheel down. That makes it easy to tell you are wasting energy however with the short barrel. Does the talonp have a different valve than the escape presumably? I don’t know a lot about air force guns but I’m enjoying learning! Thanks again BB!


    • Mitchell
      If I’m remembering right the escape is using the same bottle and valve from the Talon pistol.

      And my Talon SS that I had liked the lower spring pressure setting for the striker/hammer also. 4 was the magic number also. And the gun did its best if I kept the fill pressure at 2200 psi or lower. It actually liked 1800 psi with 10.3 grn JSB’s. Oh and it was a .177 cal. gun.

      That’s kind of something you hope for with a PCP gun. A low fill pressure with a consistent velocity and reasonable amount of usable shots. So that was a blessing when my Talon SS did that good.


      • My TSS was set up with a high flow valve, weighted striker and a 24″ .177 Weirauch barrel. It did not overcome valve lock and reach the peak of the power curve until the pressure dropped to 1800 PSI. At that point it would sling 16 grain Eun Jin pellets downrange at 1140 FPS.

        When I rebuild the valve, I think I will set it to run at a higher pressure. Maybe. I will probably set this valve up for a long .22 barrel and set up the TP valve for .25.



          • It is a real old style valve and I contacted AF and have the parts to make it a new style. Yes, it would work great for .22, however I am wanting something with a bit more umph at range. I have even considered going .30, but there is not much of a selection of pellets yet. When I rebuild it I can tune it to the operating pressure I want.


            • Which guns do you know come in .30? I was just saying the daystate wolverine 303 would be a monster, a bit overkill on squirrel and rabbit, but you could probably get out to 75 or 100 all day. The pellets is the biggest deterrent isn’t it? That’s why I asked what other guns are 30, more guns come out the pellets will follow.


        • I just calculated these numbers because while doing it in my head the estimate was so high for.177. My calculations show your gun to be putting out 46.16FPE! And needs a rebuild?I am impressed!
          I’ll be coming over to the Darkside as soon as is financially possible!I really miss shooting endlessly, hour after hour, but sitting alone is so exhausting that I can hardly finish a thought,here in the comments, in one sitting.
          I also feel that I need that sidearm now more than ever and am considering an inexpensive CO2 pistol,which would require less left handed assistance and cut down on my frustration level, hopefully leading to more enjoyment in those times when I’m done rehabbing,cleaning, or organizing for the day.This pistol would inevitably be modified, due to my tinkering obsession and this should be one of the main considerations prior to purchase.
          Anyone with any suggestions or recommendations Please spit ‘em out & Let ‘em fly!

          Thank You
          Reb


          • The problem with that high a velocity is it was grouping at about 6 inches at 25 yards. I was able to “tune” it down to about 800 FPS and get about 2 inch groups at 50 yards, but everything else was still going supersonic. It just has way too much power for .177. AF has a “standard” valve for .177 that does not put out so much.

            With a 16 inch .25 barrel I can use what power it is wanting to put out and have a good chance of hitting what I am shooting at. Also, I can get cast and sized slugs and with a 24 inch barrel have some real power.


            • I agree with your conclusion of being overpowered for.177. And would say that you have plenty of power available to do pretty much whatever you want with it! Have you considered any of the Big Bores? It could prove to be too stressful,so I wouldn’t get too carried away,but I would start doing calculations first, to get an idea of what the end result could be and start as close to it as possible regarding projectile weight.This should tell you what caliber to start with.


              • I would also try to keep velocity under 1000fps, as this would leave a little cushion for variations in atmospheric conditions which may affect velocity.After this is completed you should be grouping in no time!

                Reb


                • Didn’t our host sort of prove a few years ago that it was barrel harmonics more than high velocity that affected grouping?


                  • Wulfraed, please read above.On BB’s gun this was the case, however that gun was still subsonic. This gun is putting out over 45FPE in .177!Way too fast for 16 grains.IMO


          • Hey! That’s my line :) have you read my blog lately? Couple new posts up. Try to do em on time but its hard, I don’t know how B.B. gets one up 5 nights a week…



              • We’ll have to ask.B.B. if rifleddnabloghost.wordpress.com can be posted again, I never got reapproval after aligning the language expectations to family friendly standards. Nothing to worry about yet, haven’t had a single comment! I wonder how Tom and Edith can keep up with such a busy blog as this, great job guys!



      • Thanks BB. I really wanted an Air Force gun almost ten years ago, and I’m starting to get the itch again. I’ll admit I’m not crazy about the looks of them all that much, but you can’t argue with the concept of a lego-gun. Build it up and tear it down which ever way your heart desires appeals to me quite a bit. I really feel like I’d be best served with a condor SS frame (I’d have more flexibility with a longer barrel I feel) and a valving arrangement that tames the power back to the 20 ftlb level or so instead of 40-50. That way I would still get decent shots on a fill, ample power for anything I’d care to do with it, and still be relatively quiet. How would one make this happen? This question is for anyone familiar with Air Force rifles by the way, as I’m most decidedly NOT! Thanks everyone!


        • No Problemo Mitchell,
          Get the CSS. Personally I would want .25 to be able to use all it can give, but if you plan to mostly plink then go with .22. When you want to tame it down, put an o-ring behind the tophat that is about half of the space. That will restrict how far the valve can open and reduce the power out. When you want the power, take it off and go.


  2. I like the last couple of things you talked about.

    Testing their velocity at the most accurate setting with the most accurate pellet or pellets. And installing the .22 barrel.

    What length barrel you going to use to do the .22 cal. test?


  3. The Escape SS is almost what I have been building. The difference is I am planning on using a 22 CI tank and a 16″ .25 barrel. I had suggested a larger tank to Mr. McCaslin. We will probably see that or a 17 CI tank next year.


    • RR
      When I had my Talon SS with the standard tank with the standard valve. I think you remember that I put a 18 inch long .25 caliber barrel in it.

      The gun still shot nice groups just like the .177 cal. barrel. But I definitely could tell the difference in the way I had to use hold over or under when I was out plinking with the gun at different distances and elevations verses just straight and level bench rest shooting. The .177 cal. barrel definitely shot more flatter and was easier to shoot in different conditions. I would have to hold the .25 at up to 2 mil dots and at the same distance and position of shooting the .177 I would only have to hold 1 mil dot. I like to try to get my guns to shoot at 1/2 mil dot high or low in different shooting conditions. If you get that to happen with a pellet that your gun likes it ends up being a pretty deadly combination.


      • Mine has a high flow valve, WAY too much for .177. I have a 12 inch .22 barrel, one of the old Eun Jin made ones, but I want at least .25 and 16 inches for more power and hopefully decent accuracy. I keep wimbling though. That .30 sounds mighty tempting.


  4. G’day BB
    ” I doubt it would be noticed beyond a half-mile away”…maybe a decibel counter is needed to accurately give a comparison. I don’t think I could hear a .22 HV in the bush at half a mile.
    Cheers Bob


    • Bob,

      The problem with sound meters is the ones that can really test impulse sounds cost thousands. The ones sold for under $100 are for ambient noise, like offices and cars. They fail to work with gunshots.

      B.B.


      • So that.s why no’one does sound level testing? Makes sense!
        I had suggested to Chris,the Manager @ my local scrapyard,that they invest in a Spectrum analyzer, in order to determine the content of “metals in question”, and informed him that they only cost a couple hundred $.He,In turn, informed me that the level of sophistication required to do this, effectively,and commercially runs the price up over $20000 for the entry level equipment.

        Still learning something new every day!

        Reb


  5. BB,
    Great to see that you are now reporting on the Escape SS and that you will also test it with a .22 barrel. I am looking forward to these reports. I was able to handle one at the NRA show and was impressed.
    Thanks


  6. Its curious that the UL has a longer barrel than the SS, you’d think they’d have it the other way around and have the SS almost full length with moderating shroud and the UL that much lighter and wieldlier with the 12″.


  7. The Air Force rifles all appear to have a much higher scope height above the barrel than other air rifles. It seems like this would make for lots of holdover/hold under variation throughout typical airgun ranges.


    • The extremely high scope mounting will cause you plenty of trouble up close. What you really get is a movement in your point blank range……it moves out farther. You might also notice that your point blank range gets shorter in length, because you start getting more trajectory curve with the increase in distance. This is based on the idea of two different scope height setups with the same performance setup of the gun .

      twotalon


      • I’ve started changing my zero distance from 20 to 30yd for my guns that have faster velocities and/or higher scopes. I don’t want the trajectory to go much above the line of sight. I don’t like having to switch from holdover to holdunder to avoid confusion. It’s easy enough to tabulate the hold either + or – in mildots for a given scope magnification and range, but I have frequently crossed up the plus and minus in a hunting situation and missed shots.


        • Well… First step is to determine what your acceptable circle of impact is (above and below point of aim). You then dial in your scope zero so that the midpoint trajectory is at the upper limit. That maximizes the “point-blank” aim range (no hold over/under from just before first/ascending zero to just past second/descending zero).

          Unfortunately, when I installed the latest ChairGunPro on the new computer, I lost all my presets for my airguns. Haven’t had the time to reset the databases.


          • Wulfraed
            I agree with you. about seting up your scope useing the Chairgun program. Its anice little tool to have.


        • Feinwerk, The confusion of holdover/holdunder is the leading cause ,for me at least,for missing in a hunting scenario, and it’s hard to “practice away! This is how you can miss a squirrel @5 yards, and it’s no joke. a lotta space helps.I’ve found that a deep plinking range with targets @ varying ranges is the best practice, but it’s still very difficult so I try to mount my scopes as low as possible, except when preserving the open sight picture for use in conjunction with the scope, which is my preference.

          Reb


          • I have found a great way to get a positive image of you poi in regards to trajectory, find a good place in the woods with lots of smooth trunked trees, not the huge lumpy pines. Setup so four or more are lined up next to each other at distances moving out. Up close you’ll see its under so much, next one out a little under, than zeroed and etc. The trees work good because you can keep your hold and line of sight vertically the same.


            • RDNA
              Or paper targets placed at different distances in a left to right fashion like you said.

              I made real simple target holders that will hold note book paper just fine for when I’m ranging in a scope.

              I get the wire coat hangers and clip off the two spots where they start to spin the two ends together to make the hook. You can then bend the wire to the shape of a rectangle to fit the size of half a piece of note book paper. I tape the paper to the wire with masking tape. I draw a one inch circle on it because that is what I like to call my kill zone.

              All you do then is poke the two wire legs into the ground and you got cheap little target holders.

              Give it a try and see what you think. They work real nice also if you have a hill that goes up or down. First sight your gun straight and level then after you have your parallax distances figured out for straight and level place the targets left to right going up the hill at the same distances you used for straight and level and see what happens to your hold marks you determined for level. Then do the same with the targets going down hill. You will find that both the up hill and down hill holds you will have to hold under and they will be the be the same as each other but different then your straight and level holds.

              And again ain’t air guns fun. :)


  8. Feinwerk,
    They do and it does. I really liked my Talon when I had it but found it difficult to hunt with. I finally added a laser for the close in shots but never really got the feel for ranges between 10 and 25 yards. The other thing you have to adapt to is how sensitive it is to any tilting to the right or left. The more you shoot it the faster you get but if you are like me and have several airguns its tough to get allot of trigger time on just 1 gun.


    • Good point about the tilting. The effect of being off level would be greater when the scope is higher above the barrel. This would cause a lot of windage at longer distances.
      Shooting at steep angles up into trees will require much more hold under as well. It took me awhile before I started hitting those squirrels reliably when shooting at 45-60 degrees up. Easily 1-2 mildots hold under. The higher the angle and the higher the target, the more you have to hold under.


      • Feinwerk,

        A correction if you don’t mind.

        You said, “The effect of being off level would be greater when the scope is higher above the barrel.” Being off level, commonly referred to as “cant” or canting a gun is not exaggerated or diminished by scope height.

        The discussion about cant errors and methods of fixing it always pops up from time to time. It is an interesting subject and as always, not well understood, as much of the phenomenon about increased canting errors not arising from taller scope heights is counter intuitive. It may be counter intuitive but it is true. Different scope heights have no bearing on canting errors. This was actually proven, IIRC, by NASA aeroballistics scientist Harold Vaughn and published in his book, “Rifle Accuracy Facts”. This book is fascinating reading BTW and is , or was, available through Precision Shooting magazine. Vaughn did do shooting tests to observe cant errors and from that proved the equation that calculates the effects of cant. The formula for horizontal error is “bullet gravity drop x Sine(cant angle ). The vertical formula is different but the constant, ie., gravitational drop, remains unchanged. Height of the scope is not a factor.

        Anyways, this formula has been borne out in practice. An old CF benchrest trick is to sight in the rifle so that the POI is lower than the POA by a distance equal to the gravitational drop of the bullet at the range fired (scope height does not matter). When you do this there is no cant error. This practice works and is not paper theory. But the mechanics are borne out in the equation shown above. If one tries this, and ponders the math behind it, then it becomes pretty obvious that scope height is not a factor.

        When you sight in so that the POI lies below the POA by a distance equal to drop, what you’ve actually done is adjust the sights so that the LOD (line of departure) and LOS (line of sight) intersect at the target. This is why the POI becomes independent of cant – no matter how you rotate the gun around the line of sight, that point of intersection doesn’t move.

        Here’s a good illustration since a picture is worth a thousand words:

        http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1234190462/The+belief+that+tall+mounts+suffer+worse+from+canting+error+than+low+mounts—

        kevin


        • The scope mounting is one of the reasons I sold my Talon SS. I didn’t like the way the POI changed at different distances. I tryed zeroing the scope at different distances and the gun still showed more hold under or over compared to my other .177 cal. guns shooting the same pellet at the same velocity.

          Oh and Kevin I looked at the link you provided and I think I know what your trying to show. If you (cant) a gun left or right it doesn’t matter how close or how far away the scope centerline to the barrel centerline. It is still (cant).

          But on the other hand some people mount bubble levels on there scopes to try to keep their scope reticle true to the way they held the gun when they zeroed it so they don’t produce (cant).

          I have messed around making shots with guns with high or low mounted scopes and (canting) the gun extremely to the left or right and making the shot to find that the pellet will definitely impact more to the left or right depending on which direction I (cant) the gun.

          Is that what you meant by scope height and (canting).


          • Gunfun1,

            I think you’ve got it.

            Canting the gun can result in pellets striking left or right of your intended target. A bubble level is one way to minimize the amount of cant/leaning.

            Scope height does not result in an increase in the distance your pellets strike right or left of your intended target.

            One could argue that a heavy scope mounted very high on your gun increases instability which could increase the potential for cant though.

            kevin


            • The counter argument would be that the greater scope height over the bore would make it more obvious that one is canted…

              Consider: a 1″ bore-scope height canted 0.1″ to the left vs a 3″ scope height which would have to be 0.3″ to the left for the same angular cant.


    • Sam, I feel your pain and sympathize with you,and every other shooter who has suffered this dilemma. “We need a cure!” Oo

      Reb


  9. Since the escape is a hunting/servivel rifle, you need to use a hand pump. No scuba tanks. Can you get the required 3000 psi or would 2500 psi fill be more what you can pump out in the field? Would the lower pressure make the hi power setting more powerful that the lower power setting giver the 2500 bottle fill?


    • Racer X,

      Welcome to the blog!

      I see you know AirForce guns, but you haven’t gone back and read all the former parts of this report. In both cases, the Escape rifles (the Escape and the EscapeUL) were most accurate with a starting fill pressure of 2,000 psi. So the tanks can easily be filled by a hand pump.

      B.B.


      • Thanks for the welcome. I read the past posts and learned so much. I kinda just wanted my idea confirmed. Thanks I look forward to the blog every morning.


    • I only use a hand pump and have filled my Talon SS to 3000 PSI. It just takes a little longer. As BB has said, the actual fill pressure you want will vary from one to another, depending on how the valve is tuned and at what pressure gives you the most accuracy. My TSS operates best at 1800 PSI. That puts it right at the top of the power curve. With that fill, I would get about 30-40 good shots. You will not get anywhere near that many with the dinky little tank these have, but for a day of hunting tree rats, you should have enough.


  10. This is an interesting shooting package. I can’t exactly call any airforce gun an gun since they have so many interchangeable parts. I figured out that you only need to ever buy 2 guns from airforce. A talon and condor. Then just buy parts to make the desired gun. For example, I have a condor. So I can make it into a talon ss by swapping out the barrel and air tank and end cap. Or what I did was get a frame extender and shrouded my 24″ barrel and I now got a condor ss on steroids. A talon can be turned into a Talob P or two of these new platforms by swapping barrel and tank. I can also make my condor into an escape ss with a barrel and tank swap. This is why I like airforce guns.


    • A tinker’s dream come true! I think that is how they came up with these. Apparently they did not have the big bore ready for this year, so they ran down to the shop and through a bunch of different parts together and Voila, off to the Shot Show!


      • I’ve come across some big bore packages online. But I’m not willing to throw as much into a big bore conversion as I would for a mid to top shelf new airgun. However if Airforce comes up with a reasonably priced conversion to .357 I might consider buying one. But I really have no need to go larger than .22 or .25 at this time. But if you can bring it to market that would be awesome.


  11. I thought that the Condor was just a more powerful Talon. How is the Escape different from the other two in its basic action?

    Matt61


    • Matt,

      The Talon and TalonSS (two different rifles) are entirely different than the Condor. The Condor has a Hi Flo air valve and a much heavier striker. It is impossible to convert a Condor to a Talon or Talon SS by a barrel and air tank change. The rifle has to be rebuilt. And the reverse is also true.

      The Escape has a valve that is different from either of the other two rifles. It is more efficient than the Hi Flo valve found in the Condor. All Escape rifles (Escape, EscapeUL and EscapeSS) have the same valve.

      B.B.


  12. Hey Everybody!I just made up my mind! I getting a Bricemount for my Red Ryder.I would like some input as to what would be the best optic to go with the order I’m setting up right now, and I want YOUR opinion as to what would be absolutely perfect for 10-20m target and plinking
    your opinion is important to me so everyone with one,please feel free to participate.
    ThankYou

    Reb


  13. B.B. and Edith, I know you guys are very busy, in just keeping an eye on the blog, let alone responding. I just had an idea that I think could make the blog much more user friendly, and would like to put it forward for consideration now.
    Would it be possible to have the comment that you’re responding to visible for reference for situations when there are more than one question are difficult to full address such comments for me,right now especially, in the current configuration.
    I hope it sounds like a good idea so it moves forward
    I feel this would expand our knowledge at an even higher rate
    Thank You for your consideration

    Reb


    • comments there are more than one things to be addressed are difficult to fully address when you have to stop to find the comment so you canreadit again in order to get to the next step I what Is mean.

      a little clarification
      Reb


      • Reb,

        If you need to refer back to the original post that you’re responding to I would suggest you copy and paste the post into your reply box. When you’re done with your reply highlight the original post and then delete it.

        kevin



          • Glad you get it. Sounds Greek to me.I think it’s an awesome idea I just wish I could explain it correctly. Aaargh!!!
            Kevin, We’re looking for something for everyone’s aid and I don’t think it would be too difficult to locate the earlier comment somewhere within view while responding.
            make sense?

            Reb


          • I tend to read via an RSS feed (Sage in Firefox). When replying to a post, I on the post title and use “open in new tab”. Then click on in that tab. If I need to refer to the original post I just switch active tab.

            It likely works if one is in the pure web page mode, using “new tab” on the link.



          • You’re prolly right,I seem to encounter more problems now, and I just learned how just before the strokes.I was Very surprised when I pulled it off on my first try
            Today has been Monumental in my recovery!After just a few 2 pound curls,I got some rotation back in my wrist!-Fabulous!!!Happened within seconds,with my brother watching!


  14. gentleman,A little input on how I salved the hold over and under problem.First I use the
    Hawk sidewinder scope set on full power and I Never adjust it after that. I believe mine is fourteen power.Next I get out the one hundred foot tape measure.Start the one hundred measure at the barrel of course until you get at one hundred feet.Then get some objects such as a can of what ever.Place these cans at every twenty feet and come back to the air gun.Now you have to put some white sticky paper on the Sidewinder wheel,cover the the factory yardage markings forget them.Noe focus the scope on the first 20 foot can,make sure its completely in sharp focus the wright on the wheel 20 next do a focus on forty feet and write 40 Do this up to 100 feet. Now sight the gun in on paper at say 80 feet.I will tell you why later.Now start shooting past 100 fee2t on paper and see were you found the pellet is start in to drop from its 80 foot POI.wright on the wheel 1up.That means one mill hold over.You can keep going up to say around 150 feet.Now get your yellow marker out and color the paper yellow over the area that your gun shoots flat and with no hold overs.Now get your blue marker out and color the area that starts in the hold over ranges and color that area.Now get your red marker out an color red say after a distance you are uncomfortable shooting because the distance is to great and not humane to cleanly kill a critter with a head shoot.As i sad I would explain why around 80 to 100 feet as a zero.That’s because at that distance in a wooded area is were most of wild game hunting shot will be made and foot pounds are still plentiful.Now you do not even need to wright any feet or yards on that wheel just colors.Here’s why.The hawk scope is very sensitive in focusing object into very narrow slices inside of say around 150 feet.that means its pretty accurate in distance finding. So by only using colors in the none holdover area,you know once you have the game in the scope and the scope is focused then take a quick look at the wheel and you see yellow you know you are in the flat shooting range and no numbers to read.If you spot your game and focus and look and its in the red with 2 mil wrote on it ya just hold over as needed and so on.I hope I have made this plain to you because this works so perfect for me for years now.And yes you will have figure out the AF holdover thing shooting up into game high in a tree because you guys are so correct when it come to AF shooting.The other airguns (PCP) I shoot,I have not hardly any holdover problems with um just AF but I still love my AF.


    • Steve
      I dont know if you remember the last time we talked it was about shooting sticks.

      Well i gave one a try like you said. Its a bipod and it adjust from about 60 inches down to about 24 inchs I belive. I have been using it in the yard plinking and out in the woods. I have been using sitting, kneeling, and standing. lnstead of propping up against a tree. And your right you can be deadly accurate with one.

      And I have been using Hawke half mildot sidewinder scopes for along time in 12 power. I love em. And I like the way you do your sidewheel markings. It sounds like what your doing is high lighting the pellet path on your sidewheel if Im understanding right.


    • Instead of a paper and markers, I think my wife’s nail polish is getting raided ( no, not the pink ones!) And I can do just this right on the bell in-line adjustment on the CP 3-9x that’s working so good on my np. It is very good at range finding, surprisingly.



    • Steve
      I forgot to say. I use to do mine like that but in yards and what holdover or under I need. But I didn’t do the high lights in different colors. I could see that to be helpful when out hunting when you don’t have a lot of time to range find quickly and try to see what distance your at. Your way of using the different colors gives you a quick visual reference to know where that shot will land. Cool stuff.


      • Gunfun,You got it.It really does not matter what the yards are because you have already determined the distance when you made the color markings with the 100 foot tape measure.The only thing you have to look for in regard to caution is the red color.That’s because that color tells ya its now out of range.And I forgot to say you will notice that the yellow range will be very wide in comparison to the blue and red.Those two will get pretty narrow because the longer distance is getting harder for the focus to slice its yards into smaller reading ranges if that makes sense and I’m not the best at explaining stuff but you have a Hawk so you know what I’m trying to say.Hawks are very sensitive to about football field and after that the range finding starts to get more yards into a smaller area on the wheel and for a airgun that is reaching interstellar space,way out there man! Anyway wish I could talk myself into a second Hawk Sidewinder but don’t want to spend that much again if I can keep from it but they are worth every penny if one is a airman.Anyways always good to read you comments every morn.over coffee before work.


        • Steve I forgot to ask and I don’t remember if you said the last time. But is your shooting stick a mono stick? And did you make it? I remember you saying you made something to do with a shooting stick or am I getting old and not remembering correctly.

          And yep I’m glad I use the Hawke scopes. They are some clear scopes.


          • Gunfun,nothing wrong with your filing mental cabinets,sometimes we just can’t open the right door.But you have a good memory.Yes I did make my own shooting sticks,really China did and I just put them together.Ya buy those telescopic mono shooting sticks they sell for about $10.00 each.They have a yoke one the end for your gun to rest on.Now get two of um.Then remove unscrew only one of the yokes and leave the other one on.Then drill a hole just above the soft hand grip threw both of the sticks.Then get yourself a small threaded bolt with some extra washers and one Teflon nut.Put the bolt threw one then add some washers so these sticks can move freely but must be firm after ya tighten down the Teflon washer.Put on the Teflon washer and tighten so sticks will move but not to loosely.Now for about$21.00 ya got yourself a fine pair of shooting sticks that work perfect and ya didn’t spent $80.00 plus.The reason I like these is with two compared to a single is you get no left to right movement.You can put lead in the same hole at great distances with these or any other by pod.The other big reason is many shots have to be made almost strait up.Most by pods that connect to the forearm are to short and clumsy.And I incorporate a hooked forearm in my gun stocks I carve.These keep the shooting sticks in place if I don’t want to hold on to the gun and my hands are free but the gun is always ready while I’m setting under the tree waiting.Sounds strange I know but If you could see it you would then understand what it looks like.The snake stock I carved for the talonP has the hooked forearm and the snakes head is the guns butt and the snake head curves over my shoulder and holds the talon in place ready for the shot when the critter appears.And lastly,do you remember me telling you last March one the 6th.I ordered the 24″ 25 cal.barrel? Guess what, it still ain’t here! supply and demand is all out of Wac.Not PA’s fault I guess there are allot of people getting one after the recent Ton Jones promo.Well maybe one the next shipment I hope.Early June squirrel season is almost here in Kentucky and I’d like to have at least two weeks to get to know it.So good talking to ya and I’m gonna wet a line for some bluegill for supper.


            • steve
              I did forget about the barrel. That drives me crazy when I got to wait.

              And I got a pretty good deal on my bipod. Was on sale at Rural King for 29 dollars. It has the yoke that swivels on it. Also whats kind of cool is it has a strap that connects to both legs and only allows them to spread so far apart. And you can close them together and they will latch that way so you can use it as a mono pod.

              And myFX Monsoon has that little bump in the end of the stock by the muzzle end. Its the synthetic stock version. I dont remember if the wood stock has the bump. And thats a nice idea with your over the shoulder stock on the AirForce gun. I bet that really locks you in nice. I will have to dream something up for my Monsoon. The butt plat is adjustable up or down.So I could add something to that to make it go over my shoulder. W ill see how it goes if I can find some time.

              And man some breaded deep fried bluegill sounds real good right now. Well have fun. And make sure you post when you get your .25 cal. barrel in.


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