by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier
This report covers:
• Recent trend of lookalike airguns
• Introduction of the Umarex Legends line
• Makarovs
• 4 Makarovs
• Makarov Ultra description
Umarex has made lookalike airguns for over a decade, now, and the guns they’ve made have had a big influence on my firearm ownership trends. It seems that I acquire the airgun first, then long to own the firearm as a companion. I know that sounds backwards, but that’s how it’s happening to me!
First was the Walther PPK/S BB pistol — a cool sidearm that spawned a desire for a firearm PPK/S. I satisfied that with a .22 LR Walther several years ago. Next was the pellet-firing Colt M1911A1. That one came after I had owned a number of 1911s; but when I got it, I didn’t own any 1911 firearms at the time. But within 10 years, Edith and I are broke out with them — having more of that type than any other firearm!
The Umarex pellet-firing Magnum Research Desert Eagle was impressively accurate but so large that I thought myself immune from its charms. But just a couple years ago, I added a .357 Desert Eagle to the gun closet.
The one firearm I never thought I would own was the Winchester 94. I’ve never warmed to that design; but when Edith saw the pellet-shooting Walther Lever Action, she warmed to it right away and soon there was a 30-30 in the closet next to it.
Here come the Legends
Umarex has decided to step up the pace on lookalike guns by introducing their Legends line. The Legends are also lookalikes, but they’re copies of firearms that are legendary. Not that the 1911 and the Winchester 1894 aren’t legendary — for they certainly are, but now Umarex will concentrate on those firearms that have achieved a spot in everyone’s eyes — either by their design or by their role in life or both.
They chose the Luger to kick things off. You all witnessed the test of the Legends Parabellum P.08 pistol that turned into a desire to renew my acquaintance with Herr Luger’s legendary 9mm sidearm. That happened just this past Christmas. As it was happening, Umarex launched their Legends C96 Mauser pistol! To that I said, “Absolutely not!” We’ll see how long that resolve lasts.
Just a week ago, I completed the test of the Legends Colt Python BB revolver. I owned a Python in .357 Magnum years ago and thoroughly enjoyed it, but it was one handgun I worried about spoiling by over-handling. I don’t need that. Give me a good old Ruger Security Six any day, and I’ll turn a blind eye toward the scratches.
Makarovs
Today, I’m starting the review of a lookalike handgun that has had a huge influence on me in a number of different ways. I’m now looking at the Legends Makarov Ultra BB pistol.
Legends Makarov Ultra is very realistic!
Umarex began the Legends line of guns as special copies of iconic firearms, and it was fitting that the Makarov was the first to be produced. That one was not offered with blowback, but I found it to be amazingly accurate when I tested it. Then I “taught” Crystal Ackley to shoot with a BB Makarov on American Airgunner, and the gun really took off. In truth, if you saw that episode, I didn’t teach her anything. All I did was tell her what to do, she did it and it worked! Always! Crystal was a natural shooter who out-shot everyone on the show.
Original Umarex Makarov (now inducted into the Legends line) does not have blowback.
At the same time, I acquired a Makarov firearm that I’ve mentioned from time to time in this blog. It’s the only semiautomatic pistol I’ve ever seen that has never jammed or misfired one time in close to a thousand shots. The design is rugged, yet the gun is accurate, and it has a light double-action trigger-pull and mild recoil. Too bad the puny 9x18mm cartridge it’s chambered for is so entirely unsuited to military use, because the gun is a rock-solid reliable piece. A 1911 should be so reliable!
This Bulgarian Makarov firearm fits right in with the airgun lookalikes.
To complete the Makarov story, I must mention the firearm Maks that were converted by Izhmash to fire BBs. They were imported into the U.S. for a short time, until our Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives determined they can be converted back to firearm status and stopped all importation.
This pistol started out as a Russian 9mm Makarov, then Ishmash converted it to shoot BBs. The Russian grips look different than the Bulgarian grips, but Makarovs had many different styles over the years.
That makes a total of 4 Makarovs in my possession at this time. Three are BB-guns and the other is the firearm. This is a mini collection within my airgun/firearm collection. Now the question is if the new Legends Makarov Ultra is a worthy addition to the party.
Four Makarovs — two as straight BB guns, one as a firearm and the other as a firearm converted into a BB gun.
The Makarov Ultra
The Makarov Ultra appears very similar to the original Umarex Makarov, but how different can it be and still be a close copy of the firearm? Of course, the big difference with the Ultra is the addition of blowback. When the first Mak came out, the usual suspects howled, “I would buy one in a second, if it just had blowback!” Now, it does.
The pistol is sized to the firearm, and I doubt even an expert could notice any difference unless he examined the gun. With a CO2 cartridge installed it weighs a shade under 24 oz., where the unloaded firearm weighs 26 oz. Only the slight presence of the folded cartridge piercing screw handle under the magazine floorplate gives any indication of what’s inside.
The metal finish is a matte black that’s more subdued than the blued steel on my Bulgarian Mak, but very similar to the Russian version. The grips are closer to the Bulgarian grips, though there are so many Makarovs in the world that just about any grip can be found on them.
The Makarov firearm is both single- and double-action. So, it can be safely carried loaded with a round in the chamber — just pull the trigger when you want to start firing. The Makarov Ultra is single-action only. The trigger looks like it will fire the gun; but pulling it with the hammer down accomplishes nothing. Once the hammer is cocked, though, every shot makes the slide blow back and cock the hammer again. After the last BB has been fired from the 16-round magazine, the slide remains open — to tell you it’s time to reload. Extra magazines may be purchased so you never need to stop shooting.
Both BBs and the CO2 cartridge fit into the Makarov Ultra’s magazine. As with all Makarovs, the mag release is located at the bottom rear of the pistol grip.
Two of the 4 pistols have a lanyard loop — the Makarov firearm (right) and the non-blowback Umarex Makarov.
The sights are fixed — front and rear. This is identical to the firearm. There are Makarov firearms with adjustable sights and double-stack magazines, but I believe these are civilian models, only. Contrary to what the wikipedia writeup says, the Makarov firearm is a very accurate pistol.
It disassembles
Yes, the Makarov Ultra does disassemble, just like the firearm. Pull the triggerguard down in front and slide the slide back and up off the frame. Disassembly takes about 2 seconds. There’s no reason to disassemble the pistol, but I know that some owners just have to do it! Just know that disassembly is not authorized by the factory; and if you damage your gun or lose parts, the warranty doesn’t cover you.
Summary
I give the Ultra model high marks for realism. It lacks the lanyard loop on the bottom left of the grip frame and the safety doesn’t decock the hammer like the firearm safety does; but other than that, it’s a remarkable package. For those who like realistic BB pistols, the Makarov Ultra is one to have.
B.B.,
Shocked at your apathy about the Winchester 94.
Could bore you with lengthy stories about this indispensable, utilitarian carbine that dispatched many animals. 30-30
kevin
+ one on the 94…
Kevin,
Sorry, but I have owned a Winchester 1886 and a Winchester 1892. Those actions were both butter-smooth. The 1894 always seems like a collection of junk, compared to those two.
B.B.
Have to agree with Kevin. I am shocked, shocked at this attitude towards the Winchester 94. 🙂 I admit that I haven’t had a lot of exposure to lever actions, and the 94 action is not the smoothest, but surely that’s not the only reason for your opinion. And I thought that the 94 action represented some major leap forward in terms of strength for lever actions, so there was some of the Browning genius built into it.
And what about what Stephen Hunter describes as the magnificent “equipoise” of the gun by which he means its handling characteristics? I challenge any modern assault rifle to beat the ergonomics of this gun.
Matt61
B.B.,
Remember why I liked it so much? As you know, I have a difficult time achieving proper alignment with most rifles. But when I picked up the Walther pellet rifle, it was as if it had been custom-made for me. Same with the firearm. I couldn’t turn my back on what appears to be the only long gun I’ll be able to properly shoulder and shoot. It’s not going anywhere!
Edith
Edith,
I do remember that! But a Winchester model 92 would fit you just the same and be a much nicer action.
However, I have attacked an icon, so now I’ll have to do my penance.
B.B.
Yeah. And shame on you,Naughty boy! I’m thinking that, like myself , many others have had a very limited exposure to any other lever action gun, except maybe the Red Ryder, so don’t take it too hard but be prepared for swift and brutal retaliation from the lovers these Icons!
Reb
What rifle did Lucas McCain wield? Whatever that was, that was THE cool-man rifle in my opinion. OK, that and the sawed off rifle in Wanted: Dead or Alive. That was cool, and I think one of the bad dudes in Once Upon a Time in the West had one of those, too.
That said, I’m like a magpie. I do like bright shiny things.
What is the current Henry lever action rifle, inside? Obviously Henry was one of the early makers of lever action rifles, but what is a Henry “Golden Boy” these days, basically? Everything I’ve ever read is how a current deluxe model Henry is the smoothest cocking lever action rifle of them all.
True? False?
Michael
For the time period…
.38-40 or .44-40 is likely (both were revolver rounds)
Replied too soon…
There are some limited edition reproductions of McQueen’s mare’s leg — as I recall they have to be sold as pistols, not rifles.
As for Henry Rifles… While the family may have a century of gunmaking history, they aren’t, from what I’ve seen, related to the designer of the original Henry.
The “Golden Boy” basically refers to the brass receiver used on the lever action (do they make anything else?). And their claim to be fully US production (Winchester and Browning are both now marques of Fabrique National Herstal [FNH, formerly Fabrique National de Armes de Guerre de Belgique, as I recall].
Wulfraed,
Henry does offer some blued lever action rifles, too.
Michael
Ah, but do they label them “Golden Boy” models?
How about that bean bag gun from The Bounty Hunter?!http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Hunter,_The_(1980)#Bean_Bag_Launcher
The” Rifleman’s” characters gun was a 92 Winchester, with a screw in the lever loop that hit the trigger to make the gun fire as the lever was worked. John Wayne carried a 92 in the movie “Stagecoach” with a similar oversize lever loop without the screw feature . The new Henry rifles are pretty but not as accurate or as smooth as the older Winchesters . Kinda like wood stocked Hatsan air rifles . Henry makes an alloy framed .22 RF as well as the brass framed golden boy, and a new .30-30. The new Henry .30-30 has a tubular magazine much like an oversized .22 RF tube magazine that you drop the rounds into from the front. Marlin has them all beat as far as practicality goes, in my opinion, but BB is partly right . A 86 or 92 is a stronger and slicker gun than a 94 , but the 92 is for little rounds, and the 86 is heavy, and for bigger stuff than a 94 .30-30 . The 94 in the .30-30 is just right as Goldilocks would say…
Robert nailed it. As usual.
Not really a matter of “attacking an icon” as much as it is that I’ve had a lot of lever action center fires and the 94 in .30-.30 is perfect for me for my uses. Not perfect but none better.
Kevin
I use a 92 clone chambered for .38 /357 because I can shoot it at indoor pistol ranges. Love playing cowboy with it and the SA Rugers. Ohio is also considering making it legal for deer, whereas the 94 has a bit too much power and range with the 30-30.
If the pistol cartridges end up being allowed in rifles I might have to come out of retirement.
Volvo,
Good to hear from you again.
B.B.
It seems to me the firearm version would be ideal for a concealed carry gun. That’s not a normal 9mm round though is it? Ain’t that 9mm round shorter?
And I always did like those lever action guns.
If you think the Mak is a good conceal carry, why not just carry a .25 ACP?
The Mak is between the 9mm Parabellum and the .380 in both size and power. Since neither of those are man stoppers, the Mak is out of the running also.
Ridge, You surely was kidding. While no powerhouse, it’s light years a head of a .25 acp. Bradly
You have misunderstood, however all of the ballistic charts show the .25 ACP with a 2″ barrel. I am curious as to what would be it’s performance with a 3.5″ barrel. Perhaps it may be found to be on par with the .22lr.
.25ACP????
Before the run on ammo, and even with current prices, if one is going to stoop that small, might as well get a .22LR model.
Or even .22 shorts. I must express my appreciation for this round, in short range, lightweight situations. Many small game hunts have ended in frugal success due to this round.
Reb, I so agree. While a lot of people laugh at it, they marvel at the great power of a Air Force PCP. No, I’m not trying to compare apples and oranges, I’m comparing energy to energy. The 22 Short is underrated. With good shot placement, it’s amazing what this round can do. Bradly
GF1,
The Makarov round is 9X18, one millimeter shorter than the 9X19 Luger round. But ballistically, it’s not much more than a .380 ACP. It is unsuited for being in a military sidearm.
B.B.
B.B.
Yet another addition 🙂
9×18 Mak is not only shorter, it’s also “thicker” than 9×19. Actual bullet diameter for 9×19 is 9,015 mm, for Mak – 9,25 mm.
On stopping power – that depends on load and projectile. Mak round is nearly the most powerful round that can be fired from moderate-sized direct-blowback handgun. Common military/police load is between 9×17 and 9×19, 300J of energy. However, there’s also 9x18Mak +P round that was designed for PMM – and its standard factory load gives above 450J, but it can be fired _only_ from PMM or Grach pistols, due to higher pressure and loads.
Later Russian 9×19 derivatives seem to come under bearing “We’re fed up with inferior rounds”. Russian standard military 9×19 load is 9×19 +P+ by Western standards.
duskwight
Duskwight,
And well they should. The 9X19 as originally envisioned was a powerful round. As currently loaded for inferior pistols, it is a very substandard round. The 9X18 Mak seems to fall into that category, as well.
B.B.
B.B.
Seems that’s the downside of humanity growing larger and healthier 🙂
duskwight
This is so strange given the Russian practicality and the longevity of this gun. If it was inadequate, you would think they would have gotten rid of it. Maybe the round, as Duskwight pointed out, is just limited by the gun’s action which really sounds exceptional.
Matt61
Of all the handguns my father has ever owned, he has always used his PPK,in .380 as his First line of defense.He loves that thing! After firing this gun,many times before my school-age years and I could already see why!It was my inspiration for swooping on the Makarov,as forcefully as I did. Both of these guns can go from standby mode to empty in such little time there is not much chance of resistance or escape!
Reb
I’d always heard that the Colt Model 1911’s were as reliable as a brick. And the .45ACP is a reliable manstopper.
You heard right. Likely BB’s experience is with one that is “accurized” or was worn out and in need of a trip to the armory. I have sent many a .45 ACP and absolutely love the round and the handgun.
I meant to say I sent many a .45 ACP round downrange.
Jon,
No question about the .45ACP being a reliable manstopper. And the 1911 is also very reliable. But the Makarov is even more reliable. It’s like a revolver!
B.B.
Would it be unfathomable to chamber a makarov for a more powerful 9mm cartridge? And they have micro 45s now, couldn’t a makarov be sturdy’d up for a 45? Then everyone’d be happy… The converted makarovs that were imported, they went from firearm to bb, so must’ve easily gone back right?
RDNA,
The Makarov action is a delayed blowback that is unlocked. It relies on the mass of the slide and the strength of the recoil spring to hold the cartridge in the chamber until the pressure has dropped to a safe level. As Duskwight said, that gun is already operating at its maximum potential.
The 1911 has a slide that is locked to the barrel, which causes a the cartridge to remain chambered as the barrel moves with the slide. Only after the internal pressure has dropped does the barrel unlock the slide, allowing it to continue to recoil backwards. This kind of action can handle much more powerful cartridges than the Makarov action.
B.B.
Aah, gotchya. And the Russian converts? They must’ve had to replace just about all the internals for it to shoot bbs, why’d they get banned?
RDNA,
Not really. I can see where the gun could be converted back into a firearm. It is so modular and the designers made the BB gun modular, too.
B.B.
RDNA
Not only, to prevent re-conversion they thermally treat the frame and rework the barrel fixture. Slide innards are “jammed” too. You can make a real Mak out of BB-Mak – by making a real Mak and fitting it with grips and return spring from BB one.
Some wiseguys try and do, but the result is most times slide through the head. A little bit more chances is criminal conversion to .22 LR, but still, it’s not slide through the head it’s just inability to eat Chinese food if you know what I mean.
duskwight
Duskwight,
That is the first time I have heard of the heat treatment of the BB guns. Boy, that is a catastrophe waiting to happen!
B.B.
B.B.
Oh, I must clarify. MP-654 is made basically of the same parts as serial PMM and its derivatives. The difference is that it’s intentionally made to be unable to be converted back to firearm (as you know, here’s the country of Handy and Clever, and the land of Paranoid authorities 😉 )
To make reconversion impossible they make 3 main things: mill down the barrel fixture, it’s able to hold BB-barrel, but anything hotter will tear it off); temper and mill down srategically the frame (say hello to slide through the head and say goodbye to a full set of fingers); mill away a lot of things inside the slide (see slide through the head part). This way MP-654 becomes irreconversible.
There are, from time to time, criminals who attempt to bend the laws of physics with MP-654. All of them end the same – in trauma unit and then behind bars. Lucky ones – after 3rd or 5th shot. Majority – at the first attempt.
duskwight
Duskwight,
Thanks for that explanation.
B.B.
$179, came with cleaning rod and a few patches,and extra magazine, all inside a neat little holster! This happened at a truck stop somewhere along the East coast we had pulled into for a layover, back in 1990 while I was running the Feltmans, as a carny.Back then I always had $400 or$500 in my pocket and full of vigor.I jumped All over it and instantly fell so deeply involved that we were soon we were iseperable(except while working, I, in no way condone this behavior and would discourage any such activity involving any gun whatsoever! but you get the point 🙂 I ran about 3 clips through this gun at the Twisted Pines Ranch, just as soon as I got back off the road and the gun functioned perfectly, no matter what I tried, only a slight windage( told Ya It was nice!) adjustment was necessary to align POA toPOI Unfortunately our relationship was ended abruptly by some jerk that knew I wouldn’t carry it with me everywhere with me(because that would’ve been illegal!)and knew where to look, while I was at work.I wanna nother !
Ultimately Violated,
Reb
Thank You for the second chance,Here’s a cleaner version. But was the first draft really that bad? I thought it was very entertaining!
It’s supposed to mention how this was my first brand new firearm, but I had logged myself out so my nephew could read tonights blog without incident or accident(Big Dummy! ala Redd Foxx!)
I got erased! Oh well.
The Russians always did make good weapons. The AK is a shining example. It is without a doubt the best assault rifle in the world. Also the T34, the best tank of WW2.
I still think the 1911A1 is the best military handgun though. The only ones that I have seen having problems were the “accurized” versions where the tolerances were tightened up. Just like the M-16, if it gets a little grimey, they jam. I always made sure mine would rattle.
Agreed on the Russian skill with weapon building and about the 1911 too. I’ve heard that the problems come with accurized 1911s using handloads. The issue 1911s with the military ammo were supposed to be extremely reliable.
Matt61
I have to ask!Has anyone here,apparently doubting the capabilities of the 9X18 round ever shot it through a Makarov? Because I have. and although(fortunately!)I cannot attest to it’s”instant Manstopping” capability. But I can tell you why it is one of, and maybe the most popular military sidearms of all time. Simply put, It is Very capable,And reliable.Trust Me!
Reb
Personally, I like the .45ACP round-plenty of power! But for me the main problem is the size of the frame needed to accommodate the round. Granted, There are some smaller framed designs available($!)but when the frame size matches your hand size,you are in the best position for complete and total control, therefore meaning increased accuracy
I believe this, above recoil, is the main reason for the tremendous success of the .40
Just my thoughts.
Reb
I used to have a standard frame 1911A1 with an Officer’s model top end. The standard frame fit my hand nicely and the short barrel and slide made it easier to conceal.
Don’t get me wrong. I am not saying the Mak is not reliable, I am quite certain it is. As I said, the Russians have always made good weaponry. They also made geegobs of them. And I am sure it is as capable as the M9. However, you need to ask yourself this question. Why is it that though they did not grow up with the .45 ACP as I did, when given the opportunity to choose what weapons they may carry into combat, U.S. military personnel choose the .45 ACP for their sidearm?
Oh man my tax return isn’t going to cover so many new guns!
I was hoping I would have time to place my order before you reviewed that gun since I have the older version I tought I’d be good and the newer Ultra version could wait but that all went out the window now.
J-F
J-F,
Ah HA!
My evil plan has succeeded! Nya-ha-ha! 😉
B.B.
It worked flawlessly… as usual.
J-F
Does the Ultra shoot as well as the non-blowback version?
Any idea what may be next in the Legends line?
DD,
We will see how well the Ultra shoots. As for what comes next — that is the subject if conjecture.
B.B.
That was what I wondered, the blowback uses a little gas so itll be interesting to see the chronys compared between this and the non-blowback. I’ve owned a few umarex co2 pistols, the usp in airsoft and bbs, the walther ppk blowback, the ppk was unbelievable, good power from a little blowbak gun. The USPs were choke full of quality for the price. In glad this one and a lot of others are using the drop mag instead of the removable grip panel, that kills it and Im glad its phasing out.
RDNA,
If you like the blowback of the PPK/s (I have two, one unmodded, and one I call Full Otto), then you should also try the Walther CP99 and the ULTRA bouncy and light-triggered ASG Bersa BP9CC. That is one FUN BB gun! I have compared it directly against a Walther PPS, and I think the bounce is a bit stronger (wider slide) and the trigger a bit smoother on the Bersa. (But I’ll bet they’re made in the same factory.)
Michael
Are you telling me you have the ppk co2 bb pistol running full auto??? That must be a fun little plink, and an expensive date on cartridges. Is that an easy thing to do on blowback co2 guns? I’ve been thinking about grabbing a plinkin pistol and if that’s something can be done easy enough, it will be a new project happening soon.
The thing with the PPK is if you mod it to get full auto you lose the semi-auto feature.
The GSG 92 (it’s replica of the Taurus 92) has a 3 position selector and with maybe 10 or 15 min including the parts you have to remove and put back you can use the third full auto position while still keeping the semi-auto feature.
You need a flat head screw driver, a pick or small screw driver, a piece of tape and a hand file (no grinder, it will remove too much material). I use the file on my multi tool because I was too lazy to go get a big one from my garage.
Really easy and a lot of fun.
J-F
RDNA,
I purchased Otto already “operated on,” but I believe there are web tutorials and youtube performance videos. Yes, it becomes FULL only, which is why I still have one that is unaltered.
Otto is pure novelty, and the novelty lasts right around 4 seconds, but man is it a FUN four seconds. Three shaken up diet cola cans at ten feet basically become a fountain. Hey, a fountain cola!
Michael
I can’t venture a guess about what’s next in the Umarex Legends line, but I did see online a KWC catalog with a blowback version of the Luger Parabellum P08 shooting 4.5 mm steel BBs. That same catalog also listed a full metal version of the Mauser C96 shooting 4.5 mm steel BBs. The Umarex Parabellum P08 was disappointing to me without the working toggle and the heavy double action trigger. If Pyramyd AIR gets that KWC blowback Parabellum P08, that will be a temptation I can’t resist.
B.B.
A little correction. BB-Maks (aka MP-654) is made not from actual PMs, but from PMM (modernized Mak) frames. PMM is modern version (sold in States as Izh-71X when chambered for .380 round) made to use 9×18 +P rounds, with “thick” 12-round magazine. Other changes include different trigger guard, more ergonomic grip, diggerent slide “chin” and different form and color (due to other chem treatment) of trigger, slide stop etc.
duskwight
Duskwight,
Thank you for that clarification! I got it right when I mentioned that the Makarovs with adjustable sights and double stacked magazines are the commercial pistols — not the military PM. And that was what the arsenal converted into the BB gun.
B.B.
B.B.
Well, PMMs are in fact military and police – but only those chambered for 9×18 +P. Commercial versions are .380 or similar.
duskwight
Duskwight,
Ah! I understand.
Thanks,
B.B.
I got another question about the firearm version of the Makarov pistol. What kind of groups will it shoot? And what is the average distance a person would shoot that pistol at? I thought maybe that round that it shoots could be a more accurate round or maybe worse accuracy wise.
Remember I don’t usually shoot pistols. The only pistol I have shot is my brothers 9mm Beretta. And I really haven’t shot it that much. When I go over to his house and he gets it out we shoot it at about 25 yards and some times out to about 50 yards at 2 litre soda bottles.
Just curious to know how the Makarov shoots.
GF1,
I put 15 rounds into a group the size of the palm of my hand at 20m feet last Friday. That was shooting offhand with a one-hand hold.
That is good accuracy for a defense weapon.
B.B.
Gunfun 1
In good hands and with good practice Mak can put the magazine into palm-sized area at 25 m offhand.
Typical police drill is to put 8 rounds into alpha at 25 m offhand or two-hand. I’ve seen with my own eyes shooting the whole magazine into alpha at 50 m (closed range). That’s I believe is its best. Anyway, it is self-defence weapon for quite a modest round.
duskwight
Gunfun, It’s been a long time but, I was easily able to hold dinner plate size groups @ 10m., starting in double action and could go through a clip in no time while doing so,with good concentration on a good day.6+1= alotta lead!
Reb
B.B.,Or anyone else!Somehow I musta missed an explanation of how the PM&PMM vary from the standard version.When I bought my gun I also purchased about 150 rounds of PMC ammo which was the dealer’s recommended load for the weapon.This along with the adjustable sights and care package that came with the gun now have me wondering if this may have been a very special,or at least limited edition offering.Could you please steer me toward some good information regarding this possibility? My brain’s just not working well enough yet,and my visual scanning and tracking are so Off I get dizzy too performing so many searches and keeping track of all the information.
Much Thanks,
Reb
Reb,
PM is “Pistolet Makarova” or simply Makarov – common military/police pistol since 1949 until God knows when, 8 rounds of standard 9×18 Mak in one clip. NOT able to shoot 9×18+P Mak.
PMM is “Pistolet Makarova Modernizirovanny” or, in other words, upgraded Makarov – since 1993, stronger built, better ergonomics, able to consume any Mak ammo, including 9×18+P Mak ammo and with 12 rounds mag. You people tend to call things wrong names 🙂
If you have Mak and it is Russian-made and adjustable sights and eats 9×17 aka .380 ammo – it’s most probably Mak commercial derivative called Izh-70-17 – in case of 8-shot mag or Izh-71X in case of 12-shot mag.
There are also what we call “eeer… licensed” copies made in Eastern Bloc, especially Bulgaria. They are made for 9×18 Mak ammo and in most cases 8-shot mag.
In brief, all you have to do is to read what’s written on the sides of your handgun’s slide and tell us the name and the ammo type designated there. That’s this simple 😉
duskwight
Please read my earlier posting @4:30AM., this will enlighten you to the improbability of your method being effective But I appreciate the courtesy! Sir!
Reb
Did you say you had a stroke? I didn’t read why you had surgery, but my father had a stroke and had to have a stint in his neck. He was ok for about 2 months and then about a week ago he was sluring his speech wicked bad and could not remember telling me things over and over. Through he was having another one, but then he was fine again and has been ok since. Was really scary, thought he was gonna go down. Hope you are feeling better and don’t be afraid to go to the doctor if things start acting up, my father wouldn’t go and some day it’ll bite him in the backside. Love and good health to you Reb, and everyone her too.
Yeah, and today’s not been a good one, so far.I got stuck across town last night and way overdid it before I could get back down gotta lotta pcyatica( hope I didn’t butcher this word too badly) and whatever the shoulder equivalent of that would be. I believe relaxation of the joints is the main culprit for this.My first followup is tomorrow if I can just hold out that long.
layin’ back down right now!
Reb
RifleDNA,Sorry to hear about your Dad. This is a Major struggle I will win!I can only hope and pray your Dad comes back as well as I intend to. Between the mind doing it’s own thing and the body being apathetic to the mind,there is a lot of very hard work in store. Helping him with his Physical Therapy is probably the best thing for everyone involved but not too fast. Encourage and applaud any improvements and take him for walks and talks often when he is able.All the greatest rewards are just o’er the mountain!
Good Luck to all of your family
Reb
I know exactly what you mean about the mind, keeping the tubules charged is certain necessity. Like the batteries we just discussed. If they aren’t charged by use, they lose their power to hold us on the plane of time. Its all about the energy. I know my fathers losing his energy, but he is also happier then he has been. He’ll stop trudging the ray when he is ready, but I know things have changed him recently that are for the better, and when he’s ready, he will be loved and missed- where that wasn’t the case for a long time unfortunately. Closure is a grace of a loving god, I believe.
A few years back I picked up a Bulgarian Makarov as much for the cool factor than anything else. Solid and simple is how I would describe them with a hats off to the PPKs.
Although a lot folks I’m sure aren’t walking around today because of the 9×18 makarov round I must agree it was an odd choice for a m&p weapon. Especially for the USSR who I always thought believed bigger was better. To arm your military and police with basically a backup gun seems to indicate they didn’t expect anyone to use it or didn’t care. Compared to the 7.62×39 and 7.62x54r their other m&p rounds at the time the mak looks fairly anemic.
Bub,
That’s what I think, as well. Most militaries don’t think much about sidearms — hence the ,32 ACPs and .25 ACPs that show up in WW II armies.
The U.S. cared at one time, which is why the ,.45 ACP was the choice for so long, but then I guess we lost our resolve. Suddenly handguns had to be acceptable to anybody and everybody.
At least we haven’t devolved down to the .22 centerfire yet. But I see it coming. It doesn’t kick, but neither does it work most of the time. The spin doctors will have to gin up a bunch of strange statistics to support it and then we will embrace it.
B.B.
Wasn’t one of the triggers for the .45ACP the deficiencies from a .38 revolver during some skirmish in the Pacific?
If I ever get notification that my CCW is approved (MI may be a “shall issue” state — but the licensing board and state police appear to have to requirement for “speedy processing”) I’ll probably be looking into a small 9mm Parabellum — mainly because I have a supply of 9mm for an old (and used when bought) S&W 459. I don’t really want another .40S&W (I used the P99 for the class; most powerful gun used by any of the students — most were 9mm, one .38special, and a few .22LR — and I also have a big/bulky S&W4006).
I’m willing to consider that modern 9mm defense loads may approach the older .45ACP loads (the .45ACP may be okay, but the plethora of 1911 clones doesn’t attract me).
Bub,
Soviet WWII experience showed that a handgun is at all times the backup gun, useless at distances more than 25 m. Just like one US shooter said – pistol is the way to get to my rifle. Thus arming soldiers with it is useless for weight reasons. Field officers would anyway prefer assault rifle. Armor teams and pilots would prefer shortened assault rifles, SMGs or machine pistols over any pistol.
And in all other conditions simple moderate-powered pistol is enough.
If you don’t like Mak, take longer and heavier Stechkin – 20 rounds, burst fire with rate reducer making it able to shoot from 2-hand hold. A true overkill for any other application except for a very few special operations situations.
So today it looks like this: rank and file gets AK-74M, all the rest (drivers, artillery, paras) gets folding-stock AK-74M, and enjoys it. For pilots and armor men – AKS-74U or “Kashtan” / PP-2000 SMGs, enough to save one’s skin, but not for a full-scale assault. Pistols are for staff officers or backup, just like I said – useless thing, weighing like 2 full mags for assault rifle.
If you want some takedown power in pistol size and you want it to be Russian – take SPS “Gyurza”/”Vektor” chambered for 9×21 SP10 and SP11 rounds. FSO and FSB trademark, slightly larger than Mak, 18 rounds, 600J on exit, also it can use armor-piercing up to Russian Class III (Class III stops 7,62×39).
Specops just buy Glocks and enjoy it, like the rest of the world 🙂
duskwight
B.B.!!!
I just checked out the New Products web page at Pyramyd AIR, and just about had to pick my mandible from my carpet.
Feinwerkbau is bringing back the 124! It’s called the “Sport” and is marked at $899.00.
I have a tuned San Anselmo 124 in lefty, so I’m set, but YOW!!!!!
Michael
Dayum…$900!!? Sheesh!! Classic or not, the tx200 mkiii is cheaper and better.
The TX200 is cheaper, anyway. And heavier. And iron sightless. And slightly harder cocking.
I am not a critter hunter, but which would you rather take with you on a two mile hike through the woods?
Michael
Emphasis mine:
I suspect one too many “airguns” in that opening.
Well… I tried to emphasize, but looks like double italics don’t matter…
Wulfraed,
Thanks. I fixed it.
Edith
I like that Umarex is making high quality firearm replicas but my only complaint is that I wish Umarex would make them with the capacity to shoot pellets and/or rifled barrels. I do the bulk of my airgun shooting indoors and use exclusively pellets. The Makarov is a prime example as I have been looking at the real thing for several months (C&R collector as well).
I second that, umarex is a mainstream company, and the mediocre gamo pellet pistols are all I can find, or the 357 revolvers, which shoot well but are not a modern sidearm by my standards.
RDNA,
Well, they’re not cheap, but if you want high-quality, CO2 pistol replicas with great triggers that are not (outwardly) revolvers, then Umarex’ Beretta 92FS, Desert Eagle, Walther CP88, and Colt 1911A1 are your options among currently manufactured airguns. The Desert Eagle is not all-metal like the other three, but I assure you it is their equal in performance and quality.
Every one of them is accurate as all get out up to about 15 yards or so, and except for the blowback Desert Eagle, they are easy on CO2 as well.
Michael