Air Arms Shamal: Part 3

by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier

Part 1
Part 2

Shamal
Air Arms Shamal is an attractive PCP. It was Air Arms’ first precharged rifle.

This report covers:

• Accuracy at 25 yards
• Accuracy at 50 yards
• Pellets that didn’t work
• An observation
• Next time

We’ll begin looking at the accuracy of my .22-caliber Air Arms Shamal precharged pneumatic air rifle. We learned in Part 2 that this rifle wants to be filled to 2250 psi, rather than the 2600 psi that I remembered. Of course, the gauge on my carbon fiber tank is different than the gauge on the Shamal fill clamp that I no longer have, so some difference is to be expected. This is a good example of why a chronograph is so important when testing a PCP. If you don’t understand why I say that, read Part 2, where I used the chronograph to determine the optimum fill pressure.

I knew from previous experience the Shamal likes 14.3-grain Crosman Premier domes, so they were the first pellet I started shooting; but I have to tell you that the testing was done backwards. I actually took the rifle out to the 50-yard rifle range a couple weeks ago and shot it at that distance first, because I was certain it would not disappoint. I’ll show you those results at the end of this report, but first I’ll show you what the rifle did yesterday at 25 yards.

Accuracy at 25 yards
The range was set up in my house, so there was zero wind. Knowing that Crosman Premiers are good in this rifle, I shot the first group with them. Ten Premiers made a group that measures 0.447 inches between centers. That’s okay, but not great. I have spring guns that can do as well. I expected something closer to 0.30 inches from this rifle at 25 yards.

Shamal Crosman Premier target 25 yards
Ten Crosman Premiers made this 0.447-inch group at 25 yards.

Now, from the 50-yard test, there were a number of pellets that I already knew did not work well in the gun, so I tried some different .22-caliber pellets at 25 yards, hoping to find another good one. Alas, none of the pellets I tried were good! In a moment, I’ll include them in a list of all the pellets I’ve tried.

Accuracy at 50 yards
As I said, 50 yards was the first distance at which I shot the rifle. The day started out calm but picked up as I shot. I also had the EscapeSS to test that day, so I didn’t want the wind to get too strong. So, I shot only 4 different types of pellets besides the Premier.

Ten Premiers went into 1.254 inches, which was certainly larger than I expected. I shot the Premiers first, so the wind was calm as I shot.

Shamal Crosman Premier target 50 yards
Ten Crosman Premiers made this 1.254-inch group at 50 yards.

Pellets that didn’t work
At 50 yards the following pellets failed to group well.

JSB Match Diabolo Exact Jumbo Monster pellets
JSB Match Diabolo Exact Jumbo RS pellets
JSB Match Exact Jumbo Diabolo pellets
Beeman Kodiak Extra Heavy pellets

At 25 yards I tried the following pellets that did not group well.

H&N Field Target Trophy pellets
RWS Superdome pellets
H&N Baracuda Hunter Extreme pellets
Eley Wasp 5.56mm pellets

An observation
The breech of this rifle is vary large. None of the pellets I’ve tried have had any resistance until the bolt pushed them past the air transfer port, which is why I tried the Eley Wasps. They’re so large that I felt they might solve the accuracy problem, but they didn’t. I think the barrel is fine, but the breech is somehow larger to accept more pellets.

Although I have only 2 groups to show you today, I did a lot of shooting with this rifle! The 50-yard groups I’m not showing were around 1.75 to 2 inches between centers. At 25 yards, I quit shooting as soon as I had a half-inch group or larger. That happened with each of the other pellets by the fourth shot.

I’m surprised that the Shamal isn’t more accurate than this. I’m not going to leave it here.

Next time
I think the obvious thing to do now is clean the barrel with J-B Non-Embedding Bore Cleaning Compound. Since the design doesn’t allow convenient cleaning from the breech, I’ll have to clean through the muzzle.

I plan on returning to the 50-yard range to try the rifle once more. Do you see that the groups almost triple in size going from 25 to 50 yards? That sometimes happens. Many people, including me, think a gun that shoots an inch at 50 yards will shoot 2 inches at 100 yards, but it seldom works that way. Fifty yards is a much better range to test the accuracy of a rifle like the Shamal, which ought to be a fine long-range air rifle.

109 thoughts on “Air Arms Shamal: Part 3

  1. That is quite a surprise and a not very pleasant one at that. Hopefully cleaning the barrel will help.

    Now when cleaning the barrel of this thing, how do you keep from getting paste in the transfer port and how do you get it out? I guess a shot or two would do.


  2. Hey Rob,

    Yeah, I too am interested in the new offerings from Diana. I am quite certain that when they become available, we will see them here. I would be surprised if PA does not offer it. That by the way is meant for the US market. The Germans are not allowed to have that much power.


  3. G’day BB
    Have you got a 50 yard indoor range nearby? It would negate the wind variable and save a lot of time.
    The 1″ @ 50Yds and 2″ @ 100Yds maybe a lot closer without the wind.
    The wind even effects shotgun patterns with +7 1/2 shot I just found out and why shouldn’t it? Small shot has a terrible BC as do air rifle pellets to a certain extent.
    Cheers Bob


    • Bob,

      You’re right about this wind, but I shot the Shamal in dead calm with Premiers. Only toward the end of the session did the wind pick up.

      I hope that a clean barrel will help things.

      B.B.


  4. B.B.

    I hate to say it, but it looks like I am not the only one who can get a rifle that should do great…..but don’t.

    twotalon


  5. Spoiled.

    Wasn’t that long ago that a 1.2″, 10 shot group at 50 yards with a pellet gun was considered VERY respectable. We have been spoiled by this blog.

    Yes, I believe the groups will shrink after cleaning the barrel and maybe even with jsb 18.1gr or jsb 14.3 gr (because of the shamal’s velocity) pellets. That’s how spoiled and high my expectations are because of this blog. Surprised the jsb 15.8 gr pellets didn’t group??!!

    kevin


  6. Kevin,

    You’re right, we are spoiled. If a stock 10/22 shot a 10-shot one-inch group at 50 yards we would be dancing in the street! I guess I had unrealistic expectations for this rifle. I never shot it with 10-shot groups, or at 50 yards.

    I’m hoping cleaning the barrel makes a difference, too. We shall see!

    B.B.


  7. BB, you may want to try M Pro 7 bore cleaner. I have had good luck with it. It can be used with a nylon brush too.

    Mike


    • Mike,

      If JB Paste doesn’t work I will look for it.

      But benchrest shooters all use JB Paste and I have used it for years. It scrubs down to bare metal, so I’m hoping it will be enough.

      N.N.


  8. GF1

    Got to shoot this morning . Shot several short groups adjusting the scope back in.
    Hit the end of the fill (150 BAR) but shot a “tenfer” anyway with an empty tank .
    The group had 9 shots in less than 1/4″ , but with one out of the group high and left . #8 I think. That one also had a bit of a “grabby” feel when chambering.
    I closed the action carefully for every shot trying to see if I could feel any snags .
    Would still like the inleade to be a bit deeper and smoother , but looks good enough.

    Shooting 25 YDS.

    twotalon


  9. GF1

    Another thing I noticed…………
    Before, when I ran out of air, The POI started to climb and the groups opened up or would string out.
    Not this time…the POI just started dropping about like it should with the lower velocity.

    twotalon


  10. If that inch and a quarter @ 50 yds is bugging you, send the rifle to me and I’ll see that the horrible thing is disposed of properly so it cannot offend anyone else….


  11. Hi BB,

    Here are some of my thought on today’s blog:
    1. From what I hear from Field Target shooters, Crosman pellets may not be as good today as they used to be. At least that seems to be the case with the Boxed Crosman Premier Heavies. Of course, it may just be that the JSBs make the Premiers look bad.

    2. I wonder if you need to work from a higher fill pressure. You may not get as many shots with as tight a velocity spread, but the higher velocity may stabilize the pellets better.

    3. If this was happening to me, I would wonder if I was just remembering things better than they actually were. It may have been the best available at the time and that made it great. But, knowing you and the writing you have done I suspect that you have good records of what the gun did back when you had it before.

    I look forward to seeing more on this Shamal. I hope you can restore it to the tack driver that it was before.

    David Enoch


    • David,

      I don’t have a single gun that shoots best with Crosman boxed pellets. Not even the Marauder. It shoots best with JSB 8.44′s. Unfortunately, I have quite a few boxes of Crosman pellets.

      G&G



        • twotalon,

          I’m not sure which comment you are referring to. None of them mention a S500 (which I have also as you know).

          G&G


          • G&G

            I thought you were the other person interested in what I came up with on my S500 carbine for accuracy problems. Maybe got you mixed up with someone else.

            twotalon


            • twotalon,

              You’re right, I am the other person interested in the S500. I’m just not sure which of your comments refer to it. You do not reference the S500 in your comments so I can’t tell. Thanks.

              G&G


              • G&G

                Yes, both comments are in reference to the same rifle. GF1 wanted me to let him know how how the work I did on it came out.

                I still have to shoot it some more to verify that this would be the result that it looks like. Must be repeatable . If so, I got it down from a 5/8 group to under 1/4 . (not counting that odd one that did not feel right when loading).

                twotalon



                  • G&G

                    I was shooting 18 gr Exacts. The 16 gr Exacts and Baracuda were shooting nearly identical , so I simply chose one kind to work with.
                    Of course, I will need to see how things shake down after all that work. Might still be a tossup, might not.

                    twotalon


      • My Shamal seems to shoot the same sized groups with the CPL as it does with the JSB Exacts. Weird thing is, if I have centered the group for CPLs, the JSB group over to the side.

        David Enoch



          • BB,

            Do you ever encounter this problem? Sometimes when I shoot multiple bullseye targets, like the ones used in benchrest competition, the POI will shift as I move from the top of the page to the bottom. Sometimes it will shift as I shoot each bullseye left to right(but not nearly as much). What is causing this? I’m beginning to think it is the type scope I use. For instance, with a UTG 8-32×56 the POI will shift as much as 1/4″ whereas with a Hawke 8-32×56 there is very little shift. Do you think the POI shift could be due to the scope or is it likely something else? Thanks.

            G&G




                • G&G,

                  Yes. Stop it from contacting the barrel. That’s why so many PCP barrels are free-floated.

                  You can also lessen the effect by limiting the number of shots in the power curve. I may be dealing with the same problem with my Shamal.

                  B.B.


                  • Another possibility is what they call “natural point of aim. When you start shooting for extreme accuracy and the difference is in small fractions of an inch,, the point of impact can change because your body position is not the same relative to the new POA. What I was taught,, was to do everything you normally do in preparation for pulling the trigger,,, then close your eye for the count of ten. When you open your eye,, if you are not still on target,, your body position needs to change,, in other words,, if you have to push or pull your gun to get on target,,, don’t,,

                    This is why,, when high level competitors are given 1 1/2 minutes for each shot,,, they take ALL of it.
                    Ed



      • BB, I should have gone back and re-read the other article. I will do that. Tomorrow I mean to shoot some strings with my Shamal.

        David


  12. I’ve noticed with my marauder, some pellets show a very definite POI shift at even slight velocity changes (10-15fps) with certain pellets. JSB 18.1′s can do very small groups, but 15fps variation can make one group hit the bull, then the next group be .5″ to the side – just from the velocity variation from its unregulated reservoir and dropping pressure from the first 5 shots. This was very frustrating until I realized what was happening. Other pellets, like CPD’s do not exhibit this behavior. I think it may be from the very tight choke on my third party barrel – and the JSB’s are 5.53, and very tight.

    Also, some pellets will use more air (21 gr barracudas vs. 14.3 CPD’s) per shot – also causing different poi shifts as the pressure changed.

    It reminded me a little of the groups the Shamal showed with what are usually good pellets, and made me think perhaps some pellets might like a different fill pressure.

    I’m a novice, obviously :), but I wanted to pass this idea by some experts!


    • winpanzee,

      I’m running this rifle at the fill pressure that gives both the highest and most stable velocity. I(‘m limiting the number of shots to 18, to stay in the ideal part of the pressure curve.

      But you have given me an idea. Maybe the rifle might benefit from some power adjustments. I will consider it.

      B.B.


  13. B.B.,
    Is there such as thing as an air gun that shoots accurately up to 25 yards or around, and doesn’t shoot accurately at longer distances or vice-versa?

    If so, I would like to know of an article that elaborate on this subject, thanks.



    • Joe,

      I have at least two airguns that perform that way – an IZH-46M and a .22 cal Diana 25. Both will give small groups at 25 yards but neither will do better than 2 to 2.25 inches at 50 yards. Both are shooting in the mid 400′s, so that is probably a factor. Any wind makes 50 yard groups a hopeless endeavor.

      Paul in Liberty County


      • Hey, that is pretty good for an Izzy, especially since it was designed for 1/5 the range you are shooting at.


    • I had a Gamo CFX that would produce 10 shot groups at 25 yards that you could literally cover with a dime, but the 50 yards groups were so horrible I did my best to forget they even existed.


    • Joe,

      I have encountered this issue with rifles that shoot very much less than 700fps. For the most part lower powered guns are simply not intended to be shot at longer ranges. There are exceptions. I have not yet had a rifle that shot accurately at 50yds but not 25yds. Then again, I haven’t shot nearly as many guns as BB has. I have no doubt this occurs but I have no idea why. I’m eager to hear BB talk about this.

      G&G


      • My 953, while I had my 4×32 Tasco on it, was still hitting golf balls @40 yards but wasn’t able to keep em on paper @60.That was before I filled in the head space though. I’ll be investing in optics all around before much longer,The Airmaster is getting a nice upgrade with mildots&/or AOlong range one.I’ll need an inexpensive but nice & bulletproof with long range capability scope for the QB-36.Any good suggestions for it? I should also mention that I’m ready for mildots & adjustable parallax. I’m still getting that Bricemount (or equivalent) for the RedRyder. Anyone with suggestions just spit ‘em out.
        Thanks
        Reb


        • Reb,

          I would suggest the Hawke Optics 6-24×44 AO Varmint Rifle Scope, 1/2 Mil-Dot Reticle, 1/4 MOA, 1″ Tube. Actually, I like the Hawke Optics 6-24×50, 30mm tube more but it costs $90 more. If you want cheaper I would suggest the Bushnell Banner 6-18×50 AO Rifle Scope, Multi-X Reticle, 1/4 MOA, 1″ Tube. Notice that it is not a mil-dot reticle but I have used it with great success.

          G&G


          • G&G,
            Thank you for your suggestions! I’ll be checking these recommendations out a little later. I was just looking at the Bushnell Banner about an hour ago when I was picking up the battery for my Daisy Electronic point sight. so I can see what my 760 does with this $20 pack o’ pellets. I can’t wait til it’s time to zero it in on my RedRyder!

            Reb



  14. B.B.

    Does this rifle have a shroud on the barrel? It doesn’t look like it. I also assume then there are no baffles. I ask because I think this is why you are ok cleaning the barrel from the muzzle. From what I have learned it is a bad idea to clean a shrouded barrel from the muzzle, especially if it has baffles. I guess I’m wondering if you don’t have a problem cleaning a shrouded, baffled barrel from the muzzle. If this is true do you take any special precautions when doing so?

    G&G


  15. I had friend stop by yesterday who needed help cleaning out a shed. When she pulled up she had a telescope that she pulled outta the back seat. I had asked her the previous day what she was going to do with it because it was in front of everything else.She gave it to me! And while I was setting it in a safe place she pulled outta 6 target resetting target set. I just nailed it wit the QB-36 and 8.18 match pellet,which appeared to have vaporized with smoke outta the muzzle and off the target.I guess I’ll have to get one of my .22 cals going in order to stand a chance of moving them far enough to have to reset it but I’ve been looking for another spotting scope so I don’t have to keep moving the one I have.

    Reb


  16. Gunfun
    You got a chance to shoot any more with your 60C rifle to see if your disco valve holds up. Still trying to find a PC. Haven’t shot mine anymore to see if my valve is starting to fail like yours, it been windy and rainy here. Typical summer weather of windy in the AM and then thunder boomers in the PM.
    Buldawg



  17. RifledDNA,

    I have been giving your PCP pistol desires a lot of thought last night and today and I think I have changed my mind concerning my recommendations. What I keep seeing is a Marauder pistol with that AR stock and an Airgunlab double tank. The tree rats would tremble in fear. Quite frankly, if I did not have my Talon SS carbine that I am building, I think I would put that together.

    So many toys, so little money.


    • BB,

      Since today’s topic was a pistol I thought I would ask you about your experience(if any) with the Crosman 1720T. I don’t think you ever tested it which is curious because from what I have read it is an extremely accurate pistol. I have the Crosman Silhouette which is an absolute tackdriver. Anyway, I am on the verge of buying the 1720T and putting a stock on it for standing off-hand shooting (I need a light rifle) and possibly field target so I am curious about what you know about it. Do you know if a R.A.I. Adjustable A.R. Adapter and Stock will work with it? Thanks.

      G&G



        • BB,

          I believe your thinking of the 2300S and 2300T. There is no 1720S. The 1720T looks more like the Marauder P but has a Lothar Walther match grade, choked .177 barrel and is extremely accurate.

          G&G



            • BB,

              Yes, I was surprised you never tested the 1720T because I think it is the best pistol Crosman makes. It’s certainly the most expensive. I wish you would test it. Several “pro” field target target guys put field target stocks on the 1720T and use it. Can you tell (I can’t) from the photos if it will take the R.A.I. Adjustable A.R. Adapter and Stock? I definitely plan to use it for standing off-hand. As I said, I need a lighter rifle for shooting standing due to my back. Thanks.

              G&G


  18. Aljoh,

    If you should decide you would like to get rid of that .30 barrel, I know someone who would like to have it. ;)


  19. Hey Ya’ll,
    It finally cooled off so I could get back to shooting. I’ve put about a half dozen rounds between the QB-36 and AM77.When I opened the breech of the QB-36 the breech seal stuck to the breech. How bad could this be? The gun appeared to be dieseling when I shot it today. I was hoping to have a couple more months before I had to go into it. I have other guns to get by with but until I get some money coming in I’m broke.Anyway This thing’s cocked & loaded!Your suggestions? I have the seal and could actually put it back on to shoot it and leave it on the rack until I get parts if necessary but wanna know what you guys (&gals) thought.
    Thanks

    Reb


    • Reb
      If the seal is still somewhat intact and can be reinstalled to make a decent seal between the breach and barrel I would put it back in and fire it to clear the barrel and uncock the spring. if it wont seal good enough try to find a sink faucet washer or something similar that would create a seal between the breach and barrel. If you fire it without any seal it will most likely damage the piston seal and or piston itself. I don’t know if you can break the barrel open and while holding the barrel open pull the trigger to release the sear holding the spring and ease the barrel back closed while holding the trigger to allow spring to move back to its uncocked position. I assume it is a break barrel gun, I am not that familiar with a QB36. But your only two choices are to find a breach seal that will seal enough to allow you to fire the gun or try to break open the barrel and pull trigger to release the spring and slowly let the barrel close to release the pressure on spring and piston.


      • Buldawg,
        Thank for your reply! The QB-36 is an underlever fixed barrel so I don’t know about de-cocking? The seal is still in one piece, with no cracks or chunks missing so I almost stuck it back in to unload it before I brought it back in but the way my memory is now it would’ve caught up to me. It’s still the right shape although rather charred on the flat side where it’s supposed to stay seated.Looks like it’s been leaking for a while.I guess we’ll see what all happened when I get into it. I do remember a lotta smoke from that last shot, reminded me of my Black Powder days.Let’s give everybody a little longer to weigh in but I believe this to be the best approach so Thank You for your input Sir.

        Reb


        • Thanks B.B.& Edith,
          I’d sure like to know how to stop that from happening. Any guesses? The only coincidence I can come up with may be the links to the sales because the last time I remember it happening was while the Memotial day ad was linked,I specifically remember that one because I got caught in the ad for over 12 hours
          Thanks again,
          Reb


        • Reb
          It sounds like it detonated rather than dieseled and blew the seal out of the breach and that would explain the somewhat charred appearance of the rear flat side of the seal where it sit against the back of the breach area. You are lucky that it did not detonate more severely as it could have sent shrapnel into you body.

          Buldawg


      • Thanks Buldawg I just got’er done I had typed a somewhat lengthier reply but apparently it went to spam which is costing me so much sanity & time than I have to spare lately. Maybe it’ll show up tomorrow.’night ya’ll.

        Reb


        • Reb
          Glad to hear you got it uncocked. It being a underlever you should have been able to do basically the same thing as a break barrel. Holding the cocking lever while pulling the trigger to release sear and slowly allow the lever to close back to uncocked position. Did you shoot it with seal put back in or do the decocking procedure I explained above. Glad you got it took care of.
          Buldawg


          • Buldawg,
            I just can’t trust my left enough to do a decock on this gun yet. That last stay in the hospital packed a wallop! That’s also why I’m postponing the dive into this thing. I’m gonna leave it alone while I concentrate on my 760SS.

            Reb


    • If the seal looks good, I’d suggest putting it back – and then take steps to prevent the seal from sticking to the breech again.

      If the breech cone exterior is rough, polish it down with progressively finer grades of paper (take it to 600 or so). Put some lubricant on the surface so it doesn’t stick – a little dry graphite or moly powder. If you don’t have any, rubbing a pencil on it should work.

      The seal is the same as the lowly B3. I believe I have a spare, if you need it. In fact, I can send you a seal and several small pieces of abrasive cloth for polishing the breech cone, if you wish.

      Just let me know.


      • Vince,
        Thanks for the advice and offer of supplies I have plenty of sandpaper and am ready to strip this thing down so I can clean the bore and get an idea of what all It may need.I see people talking about these things going supersonic.This one never has on me but the Chrony was saying about 780fps so I’m guessin’ it may have issues, which I intend to resolve as soon as I get a work station set up that addresses my new set of challenges. It does sound unhealthy to me.Almost like a dryfire.

        Reb


  20. B.B.& Edith I guess I’m going to the spam folder again, I just typed a reply to Buldawg’s comment but it’s not here, could you please dig it out so I don’t have to type it again?

    Reb


  21. Wow a lot of interesting talk going on here today.

    Where to start?

    buldawg didn’t even get no time on the FDG. Got a super stupid crazy tooth ache and a tree fell the other day when it stormed. Had to clean that up before I could cut grass. Well at least maybe I will have more firewood this winter. At least this time the the tree got knocked down early so it can dry.

    And air guns. I just got a 2240 from Dave that makes the RAI stock adapter. And yes I don’t really like Co2 But I know these guns usually perform.

    Its a steel breech with a 2250 barrel that is .22 cal. of course. And it not quite as long as the Disco barrel. I shot it a few times and the velocity was to low for me; 450′s for the fps.

    I took the gun apart right away. The transfer port bushing was the bigger inside diameter one like the Disco’s. But there was a rubber seal by the barrel transfer port hole that is not usually there. It looked like it was rolling over in the hole and restricting the air flow. So that seal came out and the shorter side with the smaller hole got installed in the barrel. Then the other seal got put in tube where the transfer port is on the air valve in the main body tube. The longer bigger diameter side goes to the air valve side.

    Then I put in a little heavier spring for the striker and cut coils just till I was to the point of coil bind when I cocked the bolt. The gun then shot at about 550 fps. And was getting 30 shots before the poi started dropping off. I used two cartridges to make sure the gun was consistent.

    Guess what the Crosman premier 14 grn. pellets in the tin and box grouped good. the JSB 15.89′s grouped good.But of course the POI (point of impact was a little lower).

    The Crosman hollow points didn’t work good at all. And I had two target positions set up. One at 25 yards and one at 50 yards.

    This gun is a woods walker too.Its got 1399 stock on it which is even harder to keep your line of sight the same every shot verses the RAI adapter and AR stock.

    So the the different things that TT and me were talking about. I now believe is the problem with the .22 cal. synthetic stock Marauder because the 2240 is performing like the 1720T and the .177 cal. and .25 cal. Marauder. They are all hitting dead on. The pellets are definitely not the problem.

    I’ll tell you what when you get a gun hitting good it seems boring when you shoot. But when the dog gone things don’t want to work right it feels good to pick those boring guns back up and hit whatever you aim at.

    And I forgot the Marauder bolt was definitely pushing the pellet past the transfer port hole. I really want a different barrel to try. The lead in chamfer at the breech looks good and the crown is true and no burrs or anything. I have cut off barrels and recrowned them with good luck like TT has done but I wish I didn’t have to go there with the Marauder. I cleaned the barrel but not with BB’s favorite paste. So that just may be the next step before a aftermarket barrel in .22 cal. gets tryed next.

    And I bet everybody’s thinking why didnt my buddy just send it back.

    Maybe the new one would be ok. But maybe it would act the same. If I remeber right I have heard other people having problems with the .22 cal. Marauders. And there is supposed to be some aftermarket barrels available if I remember right. But the question is do they really perform better?


  22. GF1 & G&G

    This morning shooting the %00 carbine did not look quite as good as yesterday.
    Shot a 10 shot on the first half of the fill, then another on the second half, then another with my fill depleted. All three groups measured what looked like just a hair under 3/8″ at 25 yds . Light breeze from behind . The 1/4″ was not repeatable (yesterday) .
    Still looking pretty good . Had several pellets go through the hole and hit the ground behind without making a sound as they went through the target.
    POI looked pretty steady between all three groups today.

    Next will be to revisit 16 gr Exacts and Baracudas .

    twotalon



      • TT,
        You’re probably still doing better than I am. I seem to spend as much time, if not more, editing as I do typing. And that’s without using my left!
        Aargh!
        Reb


    • TT
      So you were able to get the barrel off of the gun. What one of the things you did to the barrel do you think really was what helped?

      And I’m getting ready to try something today. I got to into work today so I’m taking a barrel with me. Mike that sells the FDAG will sell barrels separately so you can make one of the guns .177,.22.or .25 cal.

      I ordered a .22 cal barrel extra for my FDAG a little after I got it. I was going to get a .25 cal. barrel put decided to get a .22 cal. barrel instead. The transfer port hole is in the same location as the Crosman barrels. But the barrel Diameter is smaller on the Crosman barrels verses the FDAG barrels.

      So I’m going to take the .22 cal. FDAG barrel and turn the outside diameter down to the size of the Crosman barrel and back the distance of how long the steel breech is. If this barrel works out good in my 2240 I just got I will try it in my 1377 and see what happens. If it works out I just may see if my buddy wants me to get another barrel and fix it up for his .22 cal. Marauder.


      • GF1

        I don’t know which of the two helped most, or if both helped . Then there is the transfer port too.
        I was not going to do one at a time while I had it apart.

        Would like to have had a bit longer and smoother inleade, but am going to leave it here.
        Could have done better on the transfer port if I could have gotten the brass bushing out. That is where the port is.

        At least all three groups today were completely covered with a dime. Two on the curve and one starting on “empty”. not a bit of hole showing around the dime.
        twotalon



          • GF1

            Not yet. farthest on paper has been 35, which is where I want the zero. Did some longer range plinking, but nothing I would call definitive. Shooting in the wind.

            twotalon



              • GF1

                Not on paper. Just some open field plinking at dirt clods and old corn stalks.
                I would guess that about an inch and a half at 50 is about as optimistic as I want to be at this point.

                twotalon



                  • GF1

                    I was getting Quite a few through the same hole yesterday. That gives me the odds of getting quite a few around the center of the groups at 50. Once again, need the right weather. Might have to be late afternoon / early evening for the wind to drop.
                    Do you know if those Thermacell things will keep me from being eaten up as evening comes on ?

                    twotalon


                • TT
                  It sounds to me like it should do pretty good on paper if it seems to be keeping them in one hole.

                  And we had sunshine and calm and then blowing like crazy in a blink of a eye yesterday. All I know is I wish I would of got a job as a weatherman. :)


                  • GF1

                    Went out this morning and lobbed some Baracuda 5.51 . Did not keep up with the Exacts.

                    Went home and pulled the barrel. Did some work polishing the breech end so the pellets would load a little smoother. Lapped the bore with pellets and polish. Did not do that part before because the bore had such a smooth feeling when pushing pellets.
                    Just came back in from more shooting. Exacts (18 gr only) . was trying very hard to do 1/4″ . Many just slightly enlarging a single pellet hole.
                    Saw the effects of the barrel needing conditioning after the serious scrubbing it got. Might get a higher percentage of shots into the same hole next time.

                    Weather got really soggy yesterday.

                    twotalon


                  • GF1

                    Yeah, 25 . Sorting through things at 25 before I stretch it out. That is how my plan runs.
                    Thought about trying 50 for you, but that is a plan deviation. I only alter the plan when I see a need for it.

                    twotalon



      • Gunfun
        Sounds like I gave you my bad luck from a couple of weeks ago. You sure have been busy with everything you said has happened. I don’t know if you know this trick or not but on the 2240 and any Crosman guns that use a transfer port rubber seal with a steel transfer bushing between the valve seat and barrel seat, I throw those two pieces away and go to your local hardware store a buy a foot of refrigerator ice maker plastic tubing for 15 or 20 cents a foot, it is the same outer diameter as the valve and barrel seats are and is 3/16 inch inside which is larger than the standard crosman transfer port is at 5/32 inch. I use them on all my crosmans (1400, 2289, 760, etc. I cut the plastic tube .050″ longer than the space between the valve and barrel seats and have never had one blow out and I pump my 1400 to 25 pumps very frequently at get 950fps out of it. It does wear you out pumping it that much. You have to open up the ports in the valve and barrel to match the plastic tubes inside dia of 3/16″. I like the ice maker seals cause there cheap and have not had any problems with them blowing out. On cutting down a FDAR barrel to fit a crosman just remember that the front barrel band will have to be open up for the barrel to pass thru and I don,t think there is enough material to go from 7/16 to 15 MM on the barrel band you will probably have to make a new one.

        I don’t know what Mike charges for his barrels but I do know that a disco barrel from Crosman is around 45 to 50 bucks including shipping and they come in 24 inch lengths so you can cut to length you want, it seems it would be a lot less work to replace the 2240 barrel with a new disco than have to machine the FDAR barrel and make a new barrel band to. Aren’t Mikes barrels over 100 bucks, if so the crosmans would be cheaper and quicker.

        Hope it all works out for you and let me know the route you take.
        Just got my AR lower done Thursday at buddies house, spent 10 hours doing the machine work ( measure three times and cut once). It turned out very good and just got done putting it all together. Now for the fun part of getting to shoot it and sight it in, still deciding on what type of sight I want on it, either red dot or high power scope. decisions decisions decisions.
        Buldawg


  23. buldawg
    I’m going to try to drill out that receiver for those side bolt holes for the Disco valve at work today. Hopefully I will get everything done at work that needs to be done early enough so I can do this other stuff without having to stay late. Will see how it goes.

    Should be fairly easy to do because the bottom hole on the receiver for the FDAG valve is at the same location as the Disco valve. I will just have to check out what half the diameter of the air valve hole is and measure how far up off the bottom of the receiver the bottom of the hole is.

    And the holes need to be a bigger diameter hole than the heads of the bolt. The bolts don’t tighten up to the receiver. They just pass through the holes and the bolt bottoms out in the air valve. The air valve should just float in the receiver so the air pressure can do its trick and center the valve to the bore. The bolts are there just to keep the valve from pushing out of the back of the gun if you know what I mean. The o-rings wont seal right if you pull the valve from side to side.

    But will see how that goes if I can get it on the Bridgeport tonight.


  24. buldawg
    I will have to try the tubing. And I have a Disco barrel on a 1377 and 2240 with a steel breech already.

    I will have to turn the barrel down around .130″and 170mm long for the barrel to fit in the breech and to clear the tube and cap to put the Co2 cartridge in the gun on the 2240. I aint figured how or if I want to do the 1377.

    The Marauder barrels are a bigger outside diameter then the Disco barrels if I remember right. So thats why I want to see if this works. Then I will make one of the FDAG barrels fit the Marauder.

    Oh also forgot I got to cut the barrel off to the first o-ring on the FDAG forit to work in the Crosman steel breech.


    • I forgot to say back by the transfer port is where the barrel needs cut off to the first o-ring.

      And I already have this barrel so its paid for if you know what I mean. My buddy will have to by one if he wants one for the Marauder.


      • Gunfun
        Sounds like you have it pretty well in hand and a lot of tedious work ahead with all the fitting and mods you are doing. Hope it all works out good for you.
        I know I’m Glad to finally have my machining on my AR lower done and it out together. That ten hours on my feet in front of the mill took its toll on my feet and knees that’s for sure spent Friday on the couch and just getting up to moving around today. It just reinforces what my doc has told me about not working. Got some lathe work to get completed next week or two to make new spring seats for my two B3s and a new fill fitting for my FDAR that has a provision for a gauge so I can get my peak fill and refill pressures figure out so I don’t waste any more air from my tanks than necessary. Got the chrony but don’t now pressure in gun when it hits the peak on the valve and falls off it without gauge on gun.
        Buldawg


        • buldawg
          Got the barrel done. I ended up turning it length wise all the way to about 7″ from the muzzle. Kind of makes the barrel look like it has a muzzle brake on the barrel the way the diameter steps up. And the barrel is also lighter now but will be muzzle heavy now because of the material I left there.

          And just so you know if for some reason you ever mess with one of the FDAG barrels make sure you have a old Crosman barrel next to you so you can make sure the distance from the transfer port hole to the end of the barrel is the same length. Also make sure not to cut the in-lead chamfer to deep or the o-ring on the bolt wont seal right.

          And didn’t have time to get to the receiver holes on the FDAG. Probably wont happen till sometime next week.

          And you mentioned about a air gage on your gun. That was one of the things that bothered me when I got my Talon SS with the standard tank. They didn’t have gages on them yet like the new spin lock tanks. What I did when I was chronying the Talon was when I saw the fps rise I stopped and hooked up my buddy bottle so I could see what the fill pressure was at. Then I would shoot the gun till I saw the fps stabilize then soon as it started dropping again I would hook the buddy bottle up and check the psi again. That’s kind of how I determined the fill pressure on that gun.

          Then I filled to that psi and shot the gun and when I saw my poi start dropping off I checked the psi with my buddy bottle and compared the reading to the chrony ending psi. It did work out to be pretty close to the same psi. I think I was within 50 psi when I saw the poi dropping. But yes a gage makes things simpler.


  25. I think the large breech may be the end of the search. I don’t know if this is the same thing as large chambers in rifles. Supposedly the large chambers in Japanese Arisaka rifles are why they are typically very inaccurate–although this same feature does not seem to hurt Enfield rifles which can be quite accurate. And, on the other side of the case, Savage rifles get their fabulous accuracy from their minimum headspace construction. Large chambers are supposed to be good for combat in accommodating dirt and grime. But there’s no reason for these chambers in an airgun.

    Matt61


    • I had a Type 99 Short Rifle that shot fine. It was early war manufacture. I would say that the problems with accuracy have more to do with quality control of both the rifles and ammunition going south as the war progressed. I often used reformed 8 mm Mauser brass with it since it was much more available and less expensive. The dimensions of the two cases are very close.

      Mike


  26. Well I think we got the .22 cal. Marauder straightened out this morning.

    The problem it was having it was shooting dead on then all of a sudden it would throw a shot to the left of bulls eye. Then then the next shot would be to the right. Sometimes it would go back and forth for 3 or 4 shots then start hitting dead on. And that was from the beginning of the fill to the end. it would start happening at random times.

    Went through all kinds of stuff trying to get the gun shooting right. Even cleaned the barrel. But tryed cleaning it today again. Didn’t use no cleaning paste of any kind. But I did use a different tip on the cleaning rod. We was using a nylon brush tip that had some wear on it. So I found my brass brush tip that was still basically new in the kit. I think I may have used it a couple times only.

    I ran the brush threw the barrel about 5 times and it started coloring the brass a little grey. So I dipped the tip in a little cup of thinner and got the brush clean again and blew it dry with the air compressor. Then ran it through about 5 more times and it verily turned gray on the edges of the brush. But on the last pass of the cleaning rod something came out and was stuck in the brush that made me happy. A piece of lead that looked like the shape of the rifling.

    Went out and shot the gun. No more poi problems. The gun is now hitting like the others. But you know what my buddy said when that piece of lead came out of the barrel. He said; You know what. I did load 2 pellets at one time and shot them when I was messing around learning how the magazine worked. You know what I said; I wish you would of told me that for the last week that we have been messing with this gun trying to get it to shoot.

    Oh well I’m glad that’s over with.


  27. Gunfun
    Sound like some of my customers stories after I spent two or three weeks to fix a problem and then they said oh yea I remember I did this or that. Having that info at the beginning would have made my job easier and there bill much less. Tell your buddy he is owes you a couple six packs at least. for the aggravation.
    Buldawg


    • buldawg
      That’s why I don’t really like to work on other peoples guns. It all ways seems there is that one little thing they forgot to tell ya.

      And he did get me a 12 pack. And he did come over yesterday and help me drink it. Well at least we had fun with the guns. And I’m surprised at how well his Marauder is shooting now.

      Oh and I did put the FDAG barrel in my 2240 and I did the .177 cal. barrel. I’m going to put the .22 cal. barrel in the FDAG when I get the receiver done. And I had to open up the transfer hole port in the barrel though. It was shooting a little slow at first. About 700 fps. Its now up to 800 or so with the JSB 10.3′s. And its shooting real nice if I keep inside of 50 yards. Them FDAG have pretty good barrels for some reason. Well this .177 cal. barrel works nice anyway. And your having good luck with your .22 cal. FDAG also from what I remember. I forgot did you get out to the 50 yrd mark with it yet. I think you said your were going to shoot it out by the river.


  28. Hey guys,just a fast drive buy here.Today I moved the target out to 50 yrds.on the TalonP with the 24″ barrel 25 cal.No wind shooting five one inch targets with 31 grn.H-Rs.So happy to report they all stayed in the one inch circle! at five shot strings.This thing can shoot! Next time will be at 200 feet and see if there is any hold over yet.Zeroed in at 80 feet and still keeping zero at 150 “.



    • steve
      I remember the other day you said your were trying out your new .25 cal. barrel and I forgot to ask how it was doing.

      From what you said it sounds like its doing good. What fill pressure did you end up with on that 24″ barrel?


      • Gunfun1,Hello,The fill psi. it seems to like is around 1950 psi down to 1500 psi.This is 5to6 rounds with H-r 31 grns.Believe it or not the H-r’s out shoot JSB’s.That’s a first for me.I thought JSB’s would rule but not so.I was really wishing polymags to be the best but not so in my barrel because there was to many flyer’s.And there will be about one flier in twenty with H-Rs but you know the second you push one into the barrel because it will fill a tad bit loose and your stuck with it and have know choice but to shot it unless ya run a cleaning rod down the barrel and shove it out.It takes a average of eight pumps per shot so a flier is a big deal when your pumping.The good side is that pumping to only 1950 psi. is not hard work unlike pumping to 3000 psi.So to sum it up with 24” barrel ya get more power in a shot with less pumping.The pellet gets more time to gather up more pressure in 24″ with less tank pressure and as I said it will shot threw the side of a washer,stove door,tractor finder on power setting 6 at 60 feet or so.Thanks for asking cause its fun telling what this thing will do not mention it will easily hold one inch at 150 feet one a good day.It shoots better in humidity with a warmed up barrel after about fifteen rounds then it really starts to dance.Have fun,life is short.


        • steve
          My .25 cal. guns love the H&N Barracuda’s. I tryed a bunch of the other pellets that I heard was suppose to be good and nothing compares to the Barracuda’s so far in my guns anyway. And that was something I liked about my Talon SS was the lower fill pressure even with the standard flow tank and the 18″ .25 cal. barrel.

          And I have thought about the heat and how it affects the barrel. Maybe that’s why my 1377 pump gun seems to shoot a little better group than my 2240 Co2 gun. They both have a steel breech and 24″ Disco barrel in .177 cal. And I just got another 2240 and put that turned down .177 cal. barrel on it. Its a little shorter barrel than the Disco barrels and the 1377 still seems to be the little better shooter.

          Sounds like different barrel temperatures could change things. I need to keep an eye on this for a bit and see what happens.

          And you are so right life is way too short.


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