by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier
Hatsan’s AT44-10 Long QE is packed with features for airgun hunters.
This report covers:
• First pellet
• What to look at
• Next pellet
• Last pellet
• Quattro trigger
• Discharge noise
Remember this report because I’ve done something with this rifle that I don’t normally do. To save some time at the range, since good airgun range days in Texas are often hard to come by, I’ve already tested the Hatsan AT44-10 Long QE at 50 yards. I took it along last week when I was testing the Shamal, and the day was perfect for 50-yard shooting. I’m not going to tell you the results today; but when I do show them, a lot of you will be impressed.
Today is velocity day. Normally, I would have already tested velocity when I went to the range, but this time when I shot for accuracy I had no idea how fast this rifle was shooting. You can’t tell from its muzzle report, either, because the AT44-10 QE is as quiet as a Benjamin Marauder. When I tested it today, Edith thought I was shooting the Benjamin Trail Nitro Piston 2 in my office, instead of a powerful PCP.
First pellet
The first pellet I tested was the 16-grain Air Arms Diabolo Field pellet, which is a dome. I’ll show you the first 20 shots, then explain what I’m doing. The rifle was first filled to the recommended 2900 psi (200 bar).
Shot Vel.
1………1003
2………1019
3………1018
4………1009
5………1003
6………1002
7……….994
8……….991
9……….987
10……..975
The average for this first string of 10 shots was 1000 f.p.s. The high was 1019, and the low was 975 — so the spread was 44 f.p.s. At the average velocity, this pellet generated 35.54 foot-pounds of muzzle energy.
The next 10 shots with the same pellet, and still shooting on the same fill, looked like this.
Shot Vel.
11……..970
12……..960
13……..961
14……..953
15……..950
16……..948
17……..931
18……..930
19……..928
20……..923
The average for this string of 10 shots was 946 f.p.s. The high was 970 and the low was 923, so a spread of 47 f.p.s. At the average velocity, the pellet generated 31.8 foot-pounds on this string.
The spread for the entire string of 20 shots was from 923 to 1019 — which is 96 f.p.s. We will look at where the pellets impact on the target with this pellet for both strings in the next report. And, yes, I have focused on this specific pellet.
What to look at
I showed you these 20 shots for a reason. What you see is that the velocity drops from the first shot to the last, with a couple exceptions. Perhaps the maximum fill pressure of 200 bar is understated for the rifle I’m testing, or maybe my gauge doesn’t agree with Hatsan’s gauge for the starting pressure. Some shooters would be tempted to fill to a higher starting pressure to see how the power curve might change; but since I’m at the recommended maximum, I’ll stay where I am.
The air reservoir had 1750 psi remaining after these 20 shots. That’s about the maximum number of shots you can get with this pellet if you’re looking for the best accuracy at 50 yards. If you confine your shots to 35 yards and less, I’m sure there are another 10 shots in the reservoir. The shot count depends on how you’re shooting the airgun. Please keep this velocity relationship in mind as we proceed because I’m not going to record the velocity of the other pellets 20 times. But you know that the velocity will continue to drop with them just as it does with this pellet.
Next pellet
Next up were 28.4-grain Eun Jin domed pellets. We know that these heavy pellets will probably be the most powerful in this rifle because it’s a pneumatic. Pneumatics usually do their best (achieve the most power) with the heaviest pellets.
This is a very long pellet that just fits in the circular clip, but it did fit and functioned fine. I filled the gun to 2900 psi, again, and shot 10 pellets that did the following:
Shot Vel.
1……….892
2……….886
3……….882
4……….876
5……….869
6……….867
7……….863
8……….850
9……….852
10……..836
The average for these 10 pellets was 867 f.p.s. The high was 892, and the low was 836 f.p.s. — so the spread was 56 f.p.s. Again, the velocity dropped almost linearly; and at the end of 10 shots, the reservoir was holding 2250 psi. This heavier pellet used more air than the lighter Air Arms pellet that shot 20 shots and ended at 1750 psi. At the average velocity, this pellet generated 47.41 foot-pounds at the muzzle. Remember that number.
Last pellet
The final pellet I tested was the 11.9-grain RWS Hobby. The gun was filled to 2900 psi once more, and another string was fired.
Shot Vel.
1………1128
2………1128
3………1123
4………1114
5………1110
6………1107
7………1103
8………1090
9………1087
10…….1078
The average for this string was 1107 f.p.s. The high was 1128 f.p.s., and the low was 1078 f.p.s. The velocity spread was 50 f.p.s. As with the first 2 pellets, the velocity fell off linearly. At the average velocity, this pellet produced 32.39 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle. The reservoir pressure after this string was 2500 psi.
We’ve learned that lighter pellets will use less air than heavier pellets. If you just plink at distances below 35 yards, you can probably extend the number of shots per fill to 30. Hatsan says you should get 30-40 shots per fill, and that’s about what I see from this test. I’m probably going to test it at only 50 yards, although I haven’t yet made up my mind on that.
There doesn’t seem to be a flat spot on the power curve. The velocity just drops from the first shot to the last. We’ll see next time how that affects accuracy.
Velocity and power
Hatsan says you’ll get up to 38 foot-pounds from this rifle in .22 caliber. In fact, I got over 47 foot-pounds, so they’re being very conservative. They also say the top velocity with lead pellets should be 1070 f.p.s., yet I saw over 1100 f.p.s. with RWS Hobbys, which are lead. Again they are conservative. Hatsan has the reputation of advertising realistic velocities and power for their PCPs by using only lead pellets, and this test confirms that.
Quattro trigger
I adjusted the Quattro trigger and got it to my liking. Stage one now requires 1 lb., 3 oz. and stops at stage 2 most of the time. Stage 2 releases at 3 lbs., 4 oz. There were a couple times when the rifle fired before I could feel the trigger stop at stage 2. I think that may have been partly my inexperience with this trigger, but it made me more cautious. At any rate, the trigger is very adjustable and should please most sportsmen.
Discharge noise
The AT44-10 Long QE is an extremely quiet air rifle — especially when you consider the power. Stay away from pellets that go supersonic and you won’t bother too many people when you shoot. It’s quieter than most breakbarrel rifles. You should be able to shoot it without bothering the neighbors, unless they’re listening for you to shoot.
So far, the AT44-10 Long QE is living up to its advertised potential. I just happen know the rest of the story as well; so, although I’ll make you wait a while longer, this is going to be a story you will want to read. If you’re looking for a quiet, powerful, accurate hunting air rifle, watch this test closely.
Maybe this rifle will herald the return of longer barrels for air rifles. With the increase in efficiency, you would think more companies would have a greater selection of such, but I guess customer demand has driven the selection toward compactness. Give me a 36″ – 42″ barrel and 1000 PSI fill. Yeah, I still want a Leige lock.
I agree. I don’t see what is quite driving the current mania in the shooting industry, especially firearms, for short barrels. 18 inches is considered borderline long. You’ve got 16 inches for 30 caliber rifles! And there are some 14 and even 10 inch models which are only available to law enforcement. Unless your profession is close-quarters battle, I don’t see the point. At a length of 24 inches or so, my M1 Garand would be considered ridiculously long, but it seems compact to me and handles very well.
Interesting about the foot-pounds for this rifle. Is it true that the UK is limited to guns with 12 foot pounds? That’s not much at all. If true, how does Air Arms sell the TX200 which must have quite a bit more power than 12 foot pounds.
Matt61
Anything over 12 ft.lbs requires a license in the UK as if it were a firearm, FAC is I believe what its called, equivalent to the US FID. I can’t believe it myself, especially with the popularity of airgunning in the UK, I would not be very happy with that limitation.
Matt,
The Brits have been building sub 12 foot-pound guns for their market for a half century and more. They destroke the piston guns and do other things to other powerplants. I have shot UK-spec TX 200s. You would not like them. They have a short lever throw that is heavier than our more powerful guns.
B.B.
My 1906 BSA is sub 12 FPE. Perhaps they are afraid of the Masses rising up against the Monarchy?
RR,
No, that was the state of all spring gun technology when that rifle was made. Spring guns that surpassed 12 foot-pounds did not exist until the 1970s.
B.B.
No we use pitchforks for peasant revolts! In fact the oddity of current firearms legislation in the UK makes it quite legal for me to sell ship and acquire a pre-1939 BSA with no restrictions, even though when well tuned the best of them will easily make 11fpe, because it counts as an antique, while a small, low-powered, plinking rifle like the Air Venturi Bronco (not sold in the UK of course) would have to be acquired from a Registered Firearms Dealer with id check and registration. Its a strange world.
I have a few of the early BSA’s and the improved model D’s (c. 1909-1913) and the later Standards (interwar) can all have quite astounding performance parameters and give even the most modern rifles a run for their money in terms of accuracy. The designer, Lincoln Jeffries, came up with a number of variations, including a direct breech loading variant that was considered a bit too complicated to manufacture back then, hence the taploader.
Matt
The TX200 sold in the US is sold in the UK as the FAC version. They also sell a sub 12 ft lb version for those without the licence.
It’s good to see a manufacturer understate the potential of their product. It allows pleasant surprise instead of…disappointment. Way to go Hatsan!
I was hoping they did a good job on this gun. Like I said before. I had my eye on the previous model before the sound changing device came about. And then I heard they made the changes to this new model and I really started watching it.
And I think I have a idea for some reason what the gun did at the range.
I’m going to ask a question if anybody ever tryed this with a PCP gun. Draw a straight line long ways across a piece of note book paper.
Put the paper up on your target board or backstop.
Aim for the line starting at the left of the paper and shoot the next shot aiming to the right of the previous pellet hole but try hard to aim for the line.
Shoot the amount of shots to end up at your low fill number that you chronyed the gun at or count off 25 or 30 shots if you didn’t chrony the gun before hand.
And hopefully you had enough room to get all your shots on one paper. And shoot at like 25 yards or less. 20 yards is probably the best. The closer you are to your target the less spread you should have.
If you connect the pellet holes with a marker it will somewhat show you a curve of your velocity as the fill pressure lowers in your gun. Of course there will be variation from your shots on your part. But if you do a different pcp gun the same way you should see a difference in the pattern of the shots. Try a few note book papers with one gun with the same fill pressure as you shot from before and see if the patterns resemble each other for each time you filled the gun. If you do good making your shots I bet you will see the pattern too.
If you go out to farther distances like 50 yards that will tell you what your kill zone will be for the amount of shots you get in a fill. If your first shot is a 1/2″ below the line then you take lets say 6 more shots and you are above the line a 1/2 inch then by time you make your 25th shot and you are at 1 and a 1/2″ below the line you know that you need to lower your fill pressure and end your shots sooner than 25 shots.
And maybe them 6 shots that raised a 1/2″ inch doesn’t bother you. Then you could keep your fill pressure the same and just end your shots sooner so you can stay closer to that line. Lets say if you wanted to stay in a 1″ kill zone. And maybe you have a bigger spread than 2” total from your beginning fill pressure to your ending fill pressure. That also means the gun will probably not be grouping tight when you start bullseye shooting. So if you reduce the number of shots with the 2″ pattern you got that gun should come in and group better next time you bullseye shoot again.
I guess what I’m getting at is fill pressure definitely makes the difference your PCP gun will group at. And I’m sure field target shooters know that already. 😉
GF1,
That sounds like an excellent guest blog topic to me! 😉
B.B.
BB
Your going to keep telling me about a guest blog until I do one aren’t you. 🙂
But while I’m here you should see how that straight line trick on a piece notebook paper works out on pump guns.
Put the paper out at 20 yards and take your favorite pellet in a pump gun. Pump it up 10 times and shoot at the line. Aim your next shot at the line but over about a inch to the right of your first pellet hole but with 8 pumps. Then do 6 pumps then 4 then 2 pumps. You will have a nice graph of what your pellet is doing at that range with the different velocities.
One of them 5 shots you take at that target will fall the closest to the line. That then would be the best amount of pumps for that distance with that pellet. Now do the same 5 shots at the line with the target at different distances and pick the shot that is closes to the line and you will know what pump amount to use with out using hold over or hold under.
I wonder if that’s how Ron Robison got data for his pump gun that he used at that one field target match? All I know is that paper and drawing the trick works out nice.
Last sentence should say.
All I know is that paper and drawing the (line) trick works out nice.
That’s a really great idea. I haven’t done it, but I’m definitely going to. Thanks.
Reb
It really works out nice on pump guns. You can shoot at a given distance at the bullseye then fine tune your amount of pumps without having to hold over or under.
Like field target shooting if you have targets ranging from 10 yards out to 50 yards. And lets say the hole is 1 inch in diameter that you will be shooting threw on your little rabbit or squirrel or crow knock down target.
All you will have to do is range find what distance that target is at. Pump the gun that many times from the data your little paper and line trick collected at a given distance and you should be on target. 🙂
That’s cool, It’s still good info!
Thanks Reb.
Rob
I was reading the reply’s on my break at work and noticed that my reply to you was addresed to Reb instead of Rob.
Sorry I was in a hurry to get out the door to go to work.
Gunfun1,
Get a package? I received my HW50 .22 this morning. Mounted a Hawke 4x in BKL mounts with a Beeman scope stop. The beech stock’s finish is bland, but satisfactory, as is the metal polishing and bluing. The barrel has noticeable droop and required a lot of “up” elevation. I have fired less than 100 pellets, but five H&N Baracuda Green 12.65 grain pellets average 7/8″ at 25 yards. The trigger is a bit heavy and needs adjusting. The spring makes a noticeable “HMHmhmm” on firing. Velocity is 625fps. I like the rifle’s light weight and good ergonomics. It takes some effort to cock, but the effort seems appropriate for its 15 1/2″ barrel and 11.0 fpe. I like it! We’re off to a promising start.
RB
RB
Im suppose to be walking out the door to go to work and the Fed Ex man shows up. So I got it but can’t do nothing with it till I get home tonight from work. It will be a long night that’s for sure.
And about yours real quick. You didn’t say anything about how loud it is or how much it kicks or what movement it makes when it kicks. I hope your going to tell me minimal kick and noise. Let me know.
But got to run now.
What a cool idea! Seems an easier method than the shooting/filling your gun.
I can’t wait to read your guess blog about it 😉
J-F
*guest not guess… sorry
J-F
No guest blog for me. We are doing it live right now. Try with a CO2 gun and see what happens from begining shot to ending shot at that piece of paper with a line.
J-F,
Guess blogs are reserved for all those critics who don’t actually shoot the gun themselves.
G&G
G&G
Good one. 🙂
Good one Mr. Smarty Pants 😛 😉
J-F
BB,Waiting is hard WORK!!!!!!!! This gun will be exciting and many good reviews wrote about it is my guess.Just wish the weight was a little less.It will be another 10 pounder in the woods with scope and all.Anyways got a good felling on this one.
I may have missed it, but is the cylinder removable? And if so how difficult is it to swap one out with that shroud?
RR,
In part 1 he said it unscrews for replacement in the field so I’m guessin’ it’s pretty easy,and each tank has it’s own guage. Really nice gun! Very well done Hatsan!
Reb,
Thanks for checking that out. And yes, the cylinder just unscrews and comes right out.
B.B.
And if you want low plinking, garage or basement shooting order yourself a Canadian non-PAL (our firearm license) and you’ll have a sub 500fps rifle with LOTS of shot compared to the full powered one.
If I’m not mistaken, there’s 2 length of cylinders for the AT44 and any parts made for the Hammerly Pneuma and AirVenturi Hailstorm will fit the same.
J-F
Sounds like this gun would be up for those extended hunting excursions-Grab a backpack full of grub, extra tank, gallon of water and pocket full of pellets.Don’t forget a helper to carry the game back. 🙂
I’m guessin’ there are quite a few hog hunters here in the ArklaTex that’re very happy about this gun coming in .25. Coyote! and Jackrabbit in the west . The bipod rail is a sweet plus!
Reb
Is there any way to tune the power curve of the rifle?
Noone,
Not without modification to the gun. In other words, no power adjustments that are easily available.
B.B.
You can adjust the spring preload but you have to take the action out of the stock (on previous models anyways). You need to insert a tool or rod to keep the parts from spinning inside the action and you can then adjust using an allen wrench from the back of the gun. Just google it.
J-F
B.B.
I’d like to know what would be required to interchange between .22 &.25 barels and how feasible would it be to take this gun to a larger caliber?
Thanks,
Reb
Reb,
Click on the link (or any picture). This rifle comes in .177, .22 and .25.
B.B.
Stuff like; How is the barrel mated and anchored to the breechblock, would it require a caliber specific moderator, and is there enough room to turn down a larger caliber barrel to fit?
Reb
Reb….
Do I understand that you want to put something larger than a .25 barrel on one ?
If so, then I want you to do something….
Go to the grocery store and buy a jar of pickles . Go to the hardware store and buy a few washers with .25 holes in them. Buy a few 1″ spacers with .25″ holes in them . buy a roll of tape.
Pass the pickles through the washers without touching the sides of the holes……these are your baffles.
Bunch the spacers together and wrap some tape around them to hold them together……this is your magazine. Now load it with pickles.
Getting the picture yet ?
twotalon
I was just playing with the thought of being able to swap from .22 to .25 barrels on the same gun.I know that the .25 pellets wouldn’t fit through the .22 moderator but how much might a .22 ‘s report be lessened from going through a .25 moderator ,I’m sure it would still be quieter than without one.
Then the thought of a .30 cal. barrel with or without a moderator of it’s own and fabricated slide-out single shot tray popped in from nowhere.
Remember if you say it can’t be done, you’re likely to be proven wrong. There are a lot of problem solving modders out there.
Reb
Reb
You will most likely have to have the entire action replaced because of things like bolt size and breech seal size .
twotalon
I think that’s the kinda stuff one would need access to the gun to be able to say yes or no.
That’s why I asked B.B.
Reb
Reb
If you put a .22 cal. pellet through a .25 cal. moderator it will be louder because the hole for the .25 cal. pellet has to be bigger. For the moderator to do its job. The closer the hole in the moderator that the pellet must pass through is to the diameter of the pellet the quieter the moderator will be. It would work it just wouldn’t be as effective. The whole problem with getting that diameter as close to the pellet size is you will start clipping the pellet on that hole it has to pass through. So that hole needs to be the correct size.
That’s why there is different sound lock kits for the different caliber AirForce guns.
Dang nabbit, see what I get for listening to you ‘experts’. Now tell me TT, how do I get this pickle out of the barrel of my TX200? Is there a special pickle cleaning rod? Do you work on air guns? Anybody need all these washers that I bought?
KH
There is way to many answers that I can think of for your question.
But Im just not going to answer. 🙂
I can only imagine what would pop up if I Googled ‘pickle cleaning rod’. But got to go, there are Starlings calling for me before the sun goes down. I wonder what the FPE would be for pickle chunks. BB if you get bored…………
😀
I like the gun but it’s difficult to get in Michigan. I have to go to an FFL dealer that would get it for me which is a bit of a distance away all because this has that shrouded barrel that our politicians say makes it more evil. Sometimes the pure stupidity of politicians makes me want to tear my hair out in frustration.
John,
I believe the integral silencer does not require an FFL transfer in Michigan. That’s one of the reasons manufacturers are making them that way rather than the removable ones. Take a look at this detail shot of the silencer on a Gamo Whisper and compare that with how the silencer looks on the Hatsan. The Whisper requires an FFL, but the Hatsan does not.
Edith
Is the one on the whisper removable to the point that if it were to be damaged you could just order a new one and just thread it back on?
Reb
Reb
Look at the 3rd and 9th image that is on the link I’m posting with this reply.
/product/stoeger-arms-x20s2-suppressor-air-rifle?m=2406
Its all one piece. And I’m guessing you wouldn’t need a FFL in certain states because of the fact that it cant be removed from the barrel. Its all one piece. The barrel and moderator would come off the gun as one piece. and the 9th image shows a nice cut away view.
Just thought you would be interested.
GF1,
That’s another example of an integral silencer that doesn’t need an FFL in Michigan.
Edith
Reb,
I doubt they’ll ship you a replacement it if were damaged.
Edith
I’m not too sure about that. Last time I tried to buy a Gamo Whisper with integral silencer the order was declined by pyramyd air. Same happened when I tried to buy a Talon SS so I ended up buying a Condor instead and putting a shroud on the gun aftermarket. Michigan seems to have politicians that fear silencers and quiet airguns. Normally if I still drove this would just be a minor inconvinience to have to go to that FFL dealer and place an order. But as I have around a 4 mile through a city full of bad drivers journey on bike to do it, that makes getting one a bit more problematic.
John,
As I stated in my reply, the Gamo Whisper has a removable silencer & still requires an FFL in Michigan. So, we’re in agreement there. However, things changed a few months ago regarding integral silencers.
Edith
They must have redesigned the whisper. The one I have here has the silencer molded into the front of the muzzle. It’s one of the older ones with the metal trigger. I bought it before Lansing started taking issue with airgun silencers, baffles and shrouded barrels that reduce the sound of the report. The most maddening thing about Lansing politicians is they make or change laws with no notice to the public at all. They did the same thing with an illegal “driver responsibility law” which the politician that introduced it is now trying to get rid of it and freely admits it is highly illegal and unconstitutional money grab. It appears they have done it again with airguns again changing it so if it can’t be removed or opened up to service it it is ok, but others you can open up are not then. I have not gotten the update until today. I might test this soon and try for a shrouded barrel gun.
Can this rifle be adjusted to increase the number of shots?
It looks like it would have to be modified.I would start with striker tension.
Reb
EJB,
The rifle would need to be modified or the shooter might try a higher fill pressure. If the max fill pressure is higher than I have been filling, there might be a flat spot on the power curve that we haven’t seen.
B.B.
GF1
Drawing lines with pellets….
I tried something along those lines once, but for a different purpose….
I started at 15 yds I think…
Shot once at the bull, moved the target 5 yds and repeated . Continued until I got to 30 or so. Don’t remember for sure . Had a vertical row of holes showing P.O.I. every 5 yds for the distances checked.
You need a VERY tight shooting gun to do this.
twotalon
TT
This is a little different. You keep the target at one place and shoot at the line. And it doesn’t matter if you have a accurate gun but it helps. So if we are talking about the pump gun and your worried about accuracy shoot 3 shots at 10 pumps at the line you drew on the paper. Then shoot to the right of that group 3 shots at 8 pumps and on down the horizontal line at 6 and then 4 pumps. Then circle those mini groups of 3 then connect the groups. It will give you a graph of what those pellets did at different velocity’s. And one of those groups will be closer to that line you drew. That would be the best amount of pumps at that distance to have your reticle on the bullseye with out having to hold over or under at that distance.
What we are doing with this test is to see where the POI is at a set distance with the proper amount of pressure from the pumps to make that happen. You can do the same test with a PCP and right down the fill pressure at each little mini group you make. All the same if we are talking the amount of psi to move the pellet and impact at that given distance.
When you change the velocity of the pellet it will change the POI. This straight line trick will show you were your pellet hits in relation to the pressure it used to make that pellet fly at that velocity.
And I talked about what your saying awhile back when we were talking about how a pellet flys.
I would put a target at 20,30,40 and 50 yards and label what yards they were at. Then shoot at the bullseye of each of the targets. Shoot about 5 shots at each target. Then go get the targets and lay them in order on a table and circle the groups then draw a line from one target to the next and it will show the pellet flight path.
Gunfun
That’s just ain’t fair that the fedex man delivered your new gun as you were out the door on the way to work. t will be a long night for sure. I knew you would not give up on your 60C you just need a break from it.
That is a good test you have developed to make it easy to make a graph of the shot curve of PCPs and also how to determine the number of pumps to use when shooting at different ranges without having to hold over or under to hit the kill zone. I will be using it as a test and tune tool for sure in the future.
Hope when you get off you can get some relaxing time with your new HW 50 and that it all you hoped it to be cause you need some good luck for a change.
Buldawg
buldawg
Long,long,long,long night.
But I will be opening it as soon as I set foot inside. 🙂
And let me know what you think with the paper and line trick when you try it.
Gunfun
I will definitely let you know how the line trick works out, its going to be next week before I can get to my buddies to make the fill fitting with gauge in it. so the line trick will help confirm that I am at the tune I want and just help confirm it even more when I can correlate the curve to the pressure in the gun. Then I can sight it at 50 yards and be able to change fill pressure for in my backyard or out in the woods just as you explained to do with a pumper for distance without the need for hold over or under. That will also allow me to conserve my SCBA and Scuba tank air supply by only using what I need for the range I will be shooting. This has created a new challenge for me to keep busy with and keep my mind off how much I hurt at times. Thanks for the insight and new learning experience that I can experiment with.
Don’t rush home in to big of a hurry and end up getting a ticket or worse, cause I know just how you feel right now. The 8 hours will be done soon.
Buldawg
buldawg
You explained exactly how I use the paper to find out the tune on a gun.
And 10 long hours. We do four 10 hr days. But its nice being off Friday,Saturday and Sunday. If they dont call me in on the weekend like they usually do.
Gunfun
My bad, the 10 hours will be over soon. Don’t answer the phone this weekend and you won’t have to work. LOL Its good to know I understood how to utilize the line trick.
Buldawg
buldawg
You got it. 🙂
I’m getting two very different answers concerning airguns like this. One person says that yes I can get one, the other says no, I must still go through an FFL and that only a fully shrouded barrel like the condor ss or talon ss is ok to ship now but guns like Whisper, silent cat, fusion, and the hatsan guns that have suppressor muzzlebrakes are not able to be shipped to Michigan. So now I am so confused as to what is able to be bought and what is too much trouble I’m a bit reluctant to even try and get the guns I want for fear of ordering something I shouldn’t order or face the wrath of Lansing, MI who apparently have made the laws concerning airgun barrels so complex that nobody really knows what is a good airgun barrel and what is an evil airgun barrel. So what IS the actual deal in Michigan now?
The actual deal in Michigan is the bleeding heart liberals are in charge and intend to strip you of all of your Constitutional rights, bit by bit and turn it into a Communist state. “Why would you want something like that? Just sit back and relax and we’ll take care of everything for you.”
Actually we are not. Our state congress is mostly republican with a republican governor. It’s only our D.C. senators that are raving socialists. It seems the airgun rules have been relaxed a bit opening up possibilities but what is confusing is what is it they are allowing now and what is still more evil? Don’t Judge all of Michigan on Detroit. Most of the state is actually pretty good about leaving folks to their own devices as long as you aren’t breaking any of the usual laws. However keeping in political vogue they seem to have made the law on airgun barrels quite confusing allowing this but not that and this which was hard to get is now ok while that is still hard to get even though they all do the same function on the airgun.
Just for my curiosity, is there a link for the current purported law?
I wish there was. All I have is…
A. All but certain guns are available mostly Gamo and a few others
B only completely shrouded barrels are ok but guns with muzzle break silencers are still not ok
And C. you have to try and buy it to find out if it’s ok to buy….How very Nancy Pelosi.
All of these answers from the PA staff. So at this point I have no idea what I can get and what I cannot get.
Wulfraed,
I didn’t read the whole thing so I don’t really know how well this may help but here goeshttp://www.ammoland.com/2011/09/sound-suppressors-in-michigan-silencers-part-ii/#
Reb
That’s a three year old article — and what it fails to mention is that, prior to that time, MI only allowed “licensed” silencer, but MI did not ISSUE such licenses… The Attorney General (or whatever the office was) decided that the paperwork the Fed’s issue to transfer a silence essentially constituted such a license; so if the Fed’s okayed the transfer, one did not need a state (non-existent) license to own.
But that ruling does nothing for air-guns with shrouds or silencers — as the Fed doesn’t issue paperwork on them. As I recall, on the Fed level, the Gamo Whisper passed only because it wouldn’t survive being cut off an air gun and mounted on a firearm (it might have some effect on the first shot, but would have been blown open by same — you might as well fit a 2-liter soda bottle over the barrel and shoot through it for a single shot silencer)
You could always ship yourself to a more free state and get what you want rather than what they approve of…
B.B. and all,
Just heads up there is a letter from Crosman on the Yellow regarding issues with the NP2.
Hope they get it straightened out.
Mark N
Mark N,
Thanks for the heads up. I have seen the letter and the responses. Jennifer Lambert and I are scheduled to talk about the NP2 very soon.
B.B.
B.B.,
No problem. Some folks sure are frustrated. I think they have a right to be. I certainly wouldn’t want one of these early rifles. And now I think it will be difficult to tell when corrected rifles start hitting the shelves. I think Crosman should recall them all but I’ll bet they won’t.
I know they can do better. I sure enjoy my 1701P and my Marauder. I have others that work fine too.
I wonder if the scope rail on your test rifle is suspect too?
Mark N
B.B.,It sounds like Jennifer’s gonna be a little busy.I wouldn’t hold my breath if I were you. Scope rails failing,as in falling off? It’s a shame, I wonder if it was an individual worker cutting corners or an engineer tweaking the design.
Reb
BB,
Oh well. Part of me was hoping this rifle might be a sleeper for bench rest at longer ranges (at a great price). But, you’ve already made reference to it as a hunting gun which I interpret to mean it’s very accurate for hunting. Maybe you’ll surprise me and the groups are match target good. I can dream can’t I? (LOL).
G&G
I’d bet it would produce acceptable results with a good pellet match and shooter at the trigger.
G&G,
Dream!
B.B.
BB,
I forgot to say that I don’t know which pellets you used for accuracy but I would have been all over JSBs.
G&G
BB, show me the targets… i like the numbers so far but I really want to see the accuracy with those numbers. This gun is interesting in that it has high fps and good shot count plus it has all the hunters features. I’d through a sling and a bipod on it and grab some heavy pellets and go hunt with it for sure. BUT, can it shoot… Can’t wait to see… Looks like the Marauder might have some competition…
B.B.,
If you haven’t tried them already, I’d like to recommend Crosman pointed14.3 grain.22 as a candidate for this gun.
Reb
RB&GF1,
congratulations on your new “favorite guns”! It looks like it’ll be at least one more month before I get to order minebut I’m still hangin’ in there.
Thanks Reb.
What one are you wanting to get? You talked about a few different ones.
You guys do know, that suppressors are legal in Michigan.
bb dont know if you are aware of this or not but hatsan makes their own pellets and they seem to be a little lighter than average lead pellets.. i was told thats what they use to test velocities so its worth checking them out just to get a frame of reference as to what they use..
nice report so far im a big fan of hatsan
Lead chucker,
No, I wasn’t aware that Hatsan makes pellets. But even so, I think the Hobby is still among the lightest lead pellets around.
B.B.