by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier
Hatsan’s AT44S-10 Long QE is packed with features for airgun hunters and long-range shooters.
This report covers:
• Most accurate test ever conducted!
• Scope and mounts
• Scope base design
• On to the range
• Airgunners…just like golfers!
• What happens next?
You waited for this report. I told you it was going to be a good one. I even advised a couple people to just buy this rifle if they wanted a quiet and powerful PCP that was also accurate. Today, you’re going to see why I said that.
Best test ever conducted!
To cut to the chase, this was the best test of an air rifle I’ve ever conducted at 50 yards. I won’t go so far as to say that the Hatsan AT44S-10 Long QE is the most accurate air rifle I’ve ever fired, because you’ve seen in recent days that I seem somewhat variable. I refer to yesterday’s good test of the Air Arms Shamal after a pervious mediocre test.
However, if I can repeat today’s results at some future date, then I’ll conclude that this rifle is the most accurate air rifle I’ve ever tested at 50 yards. But I’m getting way ahead of myself. Let’s see what happened.
If you’re a regular blog reader, you already know that I was having a good day because the Shamal had just turned in several great groups — including one stunner that measured 0.818 inches for 10 shots at 50 yards. Now, it was the Hatsan’s turn on the bench, and the weather was still perfect.
Scope and mounts
I had mounted an AirForce 4-16X50 scope on the rifle using UTG 2-piece Max Strength high Weaver rings for a 1-inch scope. One of our readers heard that the Hatsan scope base that allows both Weaver and 11mm scope rings to be mounted has problems with Weaver rings, so he asked me specifically to use rings that have a Weaver dovetail on their base. I did, and the UTG mounts fit well, though I will say that the Hatsan base is at the wide end of acceptable width.
But I think I see what the reader has heard about, and I want to share it with you. There are some shooters who feel that all mounts must look attractive and squared away or they don’t fit right. What these people don’t understand is that mount makers use base jaws that will fit as many different configurations of dovetail cuts as possible — because gun manufacturers do not use many standards when making their cuts.
Scope base design
I’m going to explain something here, and I want you to try to understand it because it will make all the difference if you do. Weaver bases are a standard that specifies the width and height of the dovetail, and the width of the cross groove that accepts the locking bar on the mount. But the angle of the cuts that shape the dovetail grooves are not as certain. No doubt, Weaver specifies them, but mount makers don’t always conform to that spec. They use dovetail cutters with varying angles. To deal with this inconsistency, many mount makers, including Leapers, cut the jaws of their ring base clamps with rounded points, so they’ll grip most dovetails, regardless of the angle of the cut.
If there was only one rounded point on the clamp base, the ring would sit cockeyed on the rifle; but when the other end of the same clamp also has a rounded point that engages a special cut in the scope ring and the two cockeyed points cancel each other. The result is a scope ring clamp jaw that looks cockeyed, yet the ring sits squarely on the gun.
In the 1990s, B-Square owner Dan Bechtel and I did a project to determine the standard width of 11mm airgun dovetails. This is where we discovered that those dovetails vary between 9.5mm and almost 14mm in width. The angles of cuts ranged from 45 degrees to 60 degrees. The Weaver base is more standardized, but the cut angles still vary and have to be addressed.
Here you see how the rounded point of the scope ring clamp jaw allows it to fit into a wide variety of rifle dovetail base cuts. Having a rounded point on the other end of the same clamp will cancel this odd angle and allow the scope ring to sit squarely on the rifle.
The genius of this clamp design is lost on many people who see the cockeyed part as a flaw or mistake. Actually, it’s a compensating part that assures an exact fit on a variety of different gun bases. The picture shows this clearly.
This photo shows how the compensating clamp jaw works. The jaw sits at an off angle, but the scope ring is perfectly level.
For that reason, my answer to the reader who asked whether the Hatsan bases will accept a Weaver ring is — yes. Many ring manufacturers make their ring base jaws this way. If you can tolerate the odd appearance, this solution works perfectly.
On to the range
I was at the range on a perfect day, so this test would be conclusive if a good pellet was found. In the past, you’ve seen me work through a list of pellets, looking for the best one. Well, on this day I happened to find that pellet on the second try. At least, I think that’s the case because that pellet did so well that I didn’t bother trying any others.
I filled the rifle to the manufacturer’s recommended 200 bar (2900 psi) and loaded the 10-shot magazine. The first pellet I shot was the 14.3-grain Crosman Premier dome. I put 10 into 1.463 inches, but I’m not going to bother showing you that group because of what happened next. I knew from the velocity test we did in Part 2 that this rifle probably gets at least 20 good shots per fill when shooting at 50 yards. The velocity does decline with every shot; but as you’ll soon see, that doesn’t seem to matter much.
The second pellet I tried was the 16-grain Air Arms Diabolo Field pellet. It’s a dome that sits comfortably in the middle of the .22-caliber pellet weight range. Although it resembles the 15.9-grain JSB Exact Jumbo and although JSB does produce this pellet for Air Arms, they do so on proprietary dies owned by Air Arms; so, the two pellets are not the same and should not be confused with each other. On other tests, I’ve seen different results from these two pellets.
These 10 pellets were fired on the same fill as the Premiers, so the rifle’s internal pressure was down around 2500 psi when I started shooting. Every pellet went to the same place on the target. It was like they were being guided, or something. The result was 10 shots into a group that measures 0.681 inches between the two centers that are most distant. I was stunned when the group was finished! I’ve probably shot a couple other groups that small with airguns before — certainly with my Talon SS and probably also with a Benjamin Marauder — but this still ranks as one of the best groups I’ve ever shot at 50 yards with an air rifle. And the day was just beginning!
Ten Air Arms 16-grain domes made this 0.681-inch group at 50 yards. This is a screamer.
Following that, I refilled the rifle, for 20 shots had now been fired. The pressure had dropped to below 2000 psi, and I think to as low as 1750. I filled it back to 2900 psi and went back to the bench.
The next 10 shots were with the same Air Arms pellets, only this time we started at a full fill instead of only a partial. Ten pellets went into 0.992 inches this time — a little larger, but still in good territory.
Ten more Air Arms 16-grain domes made this 0.992-inch group at 50 yards when the rifle was filled to the maximum. This isn’t a screamer; but coming on the heels of the previous group, it’s pretty good!
Now the rifle was back down to where it had been for the first great group. So, I loaded 10 more Air Arms pellets into the rotary clip and settled down to shoot another group. This time, all 10 went into 0.624 inches. A definite screamer; and with the first group, pretty good proof that the Hatsan AT44-10 Long QE I’m testing is a shooter.
Ten more Air Arms domes made this 0.624-inch group at 50 yards when the rifle was fired on a partial fill. This is the best group of the session and also one of the best 50-yard 10-shot groups I’ve ever shot with an air rifle.
Airgunners…just like golfers!
Like a golfer who shot a sub-par game in which he also got a hole-in-one, I decided that my good luck had probably run its course this day. Besides the 40 shots fired with this rifle, I had also tested the Shamal and shot an additional 40 shots there because there were some adjustments to the scope that had to be made. In all, I’d shot 80 precision shots this day. That’s tiring.
What happens next?
I’ve never had an air rifle that would shoot this many consistently small groups in succession. Either I was having the best shooting day of my life, or this Hatsan rifle can really shoot. I want to return to the range under similar shooting conditions and see if I can repeat this. And I’ll continue to shoot the Air Arms pellets.
I just want to make sure this test was a valid one. It isn’t every day that you shoot the most accurate air rifle you’ve ever seen. I told several readers not to worry but to just buy the rifle if that was what they wanted. Now you see why.
After seeing what can be done with the Air Arms pellet, I want to explore some other pellets in this Hatsan. Hopefully, it’ll do well with several brands so there’s a choice.
After that, who knows? Maybe I’ll try this one at 100 yards. You may remember that I shot a one-inch group of 10 at 100 yards with a CondorSS last year. I wonder if this rifle can do as well?
I knew it! That’s what the bipod rail’s for, 100 yard testing! might as well get one on order.
Reb
B.B.,
Another job well done! By all means, please go ahead and match as many pellets to this gun as possible now while you have access to all those pellets The end is nigh!When the Zombie apocalypse does occur you’ll be better prepared by knowing what all shoots well in your Melon buster.
Something else tells me that some burly, enterprising hunter will use this mount for a camera!
Reb
Today’s weather was exceptionally mild once again! Every time I grabbed a gun and went out to shoot another neighbor was working outside. I did find an opportunity to squeeze a couple off at 50 yards through the Bathroom window.My stance and hold were less than perfect and scope not yet dialed in for this round but I hit what I was aiming at! Tomorrow’s another day. After I finish sighting in the Airmaster I’ll be setting my 953 up for running the same8.18 wadcutter match pellet(saving my hunting rounds for hunting season!)
Reb
BB
I see why you told me to buy the gun. It does show great potential fro sure. I have also heard it does very well with JSB exacts at 18/13 grains. I am going to buy the gun only I am going to get the standard model as I am not concerned with it being quiet and the non QE model is a good bit cheaper and comes with iron sights. I don’t have the money for a scope in my budget now so the open sights will still allow me to enjoy until I can afford a scope.
Buldawg
Buldawg,
I’ll bet it’s gonna be loud. Probably louder than you think. You might wanna rethink that.Regardless, I’ve been watching Hatsan for a little while now and I’m liking what I’ve been seeing these last couple of years! Enjoy your new Sniper!
Reb
Reb
Thanks I just ordered the AT 44s10 long as we talk and I know I will enjoy it for sure. I was also looking at their AT44PA long which is the same gun only instead of being bolt action it is pump action like a pump shotgun, but I noticed this morning it went from 354.59 to 395.59 so I got the bolt action one. The pump would be nice to be able to rapid fire as fast as you can pump it rather than having to cock with bolt/sidelever which is what their bolt actually is.
Buldawg
Reb
I was mistaken on the price for the PA 10 model it is also 355 in 22 cal.
Buldawg
I’ll have to check out this pump action model, that sounds exciting!
That’s a nice little package!
Reb
Yea I stumbled on the sale by accident. Mine is 22 cal with the 23 inch barrel and I am definitely anxious to get it. I just could not let it get away at that price.
Buldawg
I only heard bad things about that gun. The pump is apparently really harsh and hard to pump and you have to really pump it like you mean it to make sure you pump it far enough, it’s not smooth like an old 12 gauge.
That what I heard about them when they first came out, the issues might have been resolved since then.
J-F
J-F
I have not heard any thing one way or the other on the pump action guns. I bought the bolt/sidelever model as I am not looking to rapid fire with it any way. It is good to know that it may not cycle like an old Remington or Mossberg pump shotgun. Where did you hear or read that and how long ago was it.
Buldawg
I’m in Canada and Hatsan is one of the very manufacturers who detunes airguns for our market but when they did it was one of the very first PCP’s available here so they sold a bunch of them in the regular/short format, then the BT65 came out and the AT long and BT long. We don’t have the QE with silencers but all other models and stocks have been available for a while.
It came out a few years ago when the Hammerli Pneuma and AirVenturi Hailstorm came out (same gun).
I have the AT44 10 shot repeater in .22 with the synthetic thumbhole stock, the only complain I have is the darn automatic safety, I hate those.
You can come and search the CAF (Canadian Airgun Forum) for info on the rifle. It’s a nice accurate rifle and it’s relatively cheap so it’s tempting to mod them. They are built on the cheap and some rifles will gain from being taken appart and cleaned a little, some have metal shavings and stuff like that inside.
But for the price they’re hard to beat.
J-F
J-F
Thanks for the info on the gun. I just bought the one you have ATS10 22 long, it has to be frustrating to not be able to get high powered pellet guns in Canada. I am in Alabama and we have no restrictions what so ever on air guns and they are not even classified as a firearm because they use no explosive to push the pellet with.
I got a Xisico 60C pcp gun about three months ago and have done tuning on it and I am very happy with it for 100 bucks. I take from what you are saying that the Hatsan is not on par with a marauder or other similar priced PCPs. How old is yours because I am wondering if they have improved their quality control since you got yours.
BBs review of the ATS10 22 QE model was very thorough and sounded like it is a high quality gun. Do you have a different opinion of them or do you think the newer ones have been improved. Because they are detuned for you market what have you done to improve it and tune it or did you just remove the things that Hatsan did to detune it for you market.
Any more info you can share would be appreciated.
Buldawg
We can get all the airguns we want as long as long as there is no noise lowering device on the gun BUT if the airguns exceeds a certain fps and energy level (you have to exceed both so you can have a .50 caliber canon if it doesn’t go faster than 500fps you’re ok, same thing with a needle, it could be going faster than 500fps if the energy level isn’t exceeded you’re good to go).
If it’s over our limits you gotta have a course and license for it and then there is the transportation limitations etc.
That’s all for long guns, handguns are really a pain, you need another course, more licensing, registration and handguns can only be used at official and licensed ranges and transportation regulations are insane.
I can’t really say if the construction of these are on par or not as I haven’t taken any of them appart. I know accuracy wise they’re pretty darn good and I’m sure pleased with mine.
I haven’t modded mine in anyway appart from adding a muzzle brake on it and having someone machine me a fill adapter that has a foster fitting instead of the treaded one so I can leave the female foster fitting on my tank and fill my AT44 or my 1701P without changing anything.
J-F
J-F
WOW That sounds like way to much to have to go thru just to have a good time plinking and target shooting. I am afraid that our good ole US of A is about to face some of the same restrictions, but I really hope not because I will fight back at every step. I just cannot deal with the gov’t trying to control my life or protect me from myself, I have made it thru 58 years of life without there help and I sure don’t want it now.
Any way, after my rant. So you are happy with yours and it is accurate also. I am a tinkerer so it will most likely be apart very shortly after it is shot to get some chrony numbers so I know if what I do is a improvement or not. From what BB has said in his review I will most likely just tear it down to know how it works and give it a good cleaning. I also like the foster fill fitting mod because that is what my XC60C uses and I also don’t want to have multiple fill setups.
Thanks for the info and one last question, do hunters have to go thru a smorgasbord of training to legally hunt in Canada also. I was hunting by myself at the ripe old age of 8 in 1964 with a 12 ga shotgun with my dads permission as I bought the Remington 1100 with my own chore and grass cutting money.
Buldawg
Of course hunters need a course too!
If I’m not mistaken, the license to own a firearm is a one day course, hunters is another one and restricted firearm (all handguns and a few long guns) is one or two days. Then you have to fill a ton of paper work and wait and 6 to 8 weeks later you have a license. If you want to actually USE your license to get a firearm you have more paper work to fill out.
That’s why I’m staying with airguns that aren’t considered firearms. I can use them whenever I want and almost anywhere I want.
I’m sure you’ll love your Hatsan PCP if it’s anything like mine.
J-F
buldawg
You sound like you grew up the way I did. And I’m very glad I did.
J-F
I posted here because there was no reply at the bottom of your last post.
Glad to hear that you like your gun and it has performed well for you. I would not be able to deal with all the laws up there, just seems the gov’t think they are smarter than the citizens and must protect us from ourselves. I can see why you stick with airguns.
Here in Alabama it is 20 bucks and 1 day for the county sheriff to run a background check and you have a concealed carry permit for any handgun you own, open carry is completely legal without any permit at all you just have to obey the stores policy as to whether they allow firearms in the store and the sign must be clearly visible at the entrance of the store. Of course they are not allowed in any state or federal buildings. There are no course’s required for hunting license’s either.
If you want to see what power is available in a airgun check out these two sites and look at the Quigley 72 xp-airgun.com and mrhollowpoint.com. The Quigley 72 is a 72 caliber airgun that fires a 735 grain hollow point slug ( think 12 ga slug only solid lead instead of being hollow on the back side ) at 800 fps with 1000 ft/lbs of energy at target at 80 yards, it uses 4500 psi air to shoot and you only get 2 shots on full power or 4 or 5 on low power. Watch the video on the mr hollow point site for it. The guy on the xp airgun site makes the guns and mr hollow point makes the bullets for the guns, you can get them in 308, 38, 45, 50, 52, 58 and 72 calibers and start at 1300.00 for 308 to 45, then 1600.00 for 50 to 58 and the granddaddy the 72 is 2000.00. They are made one at a time to order. The 72 is capable of killing anything that walks the face of the earth right now. Definitely very cool and overkill at the same time. I will own before I die that’s for sure if for no other reason than to say I do.
Buldawg
buldawg
Ain’t it funny how this is the United States but every state has some kind of different law. And I’m done and I will not say no more.
Thanks to the wonderful world of the internet I know about all those nice airguns I can’t buy LOL.
J-F
J-F
Did you check out the 2 sites I gave you and if so what do you think about the Quigley 72, it’s way overkill but totally a must own also. just think what the neighbors would think when they heard that cannon go off. Actually most of my neighbors would not pay it to much attention because we have a rock quarry near by so you are always hearing loud explosions when they blast the rock out for loading in the trucks, it is enough to shake the ground in my neighborhood. I know my neighbor 4 house down would investigate as he did when I first started shooting my 60CV PCP gun because it is almost as loud as a 22 rim fire on the peak of its power curve.
Buldawg
buldawg
That’s what I wondered about when you said you would be hunting with your gun. I have been able to take more than one bird or animal in the past because the gun was quiet.
That’s my main concern about a quiet gun. Its not about if people hear me shoot or not. Its so I can take more than one shot with out scaring everything away.
I have said this before. If I just want to scare something away why don’t I just throw a firecracker out there. But also if I did that then the song birds we feed would also get scared. And we want those to come around you know what I mean.
Gunfun
I understand your thoughts on having a quiet gun, but I am on a fixed income right now and the Air Gun depot is having a sale on the non quiet model for 355 now with free shipping and the QE version is 500 bucks so that’s a 145 buck difference which makes a big difference.
When I shoot my 60c in the back yard the animals don’t scatter. The trees at the back of my property are still filled with tree rats.
I took my 60C apart last night to get it ready to machine my new fill fitting with a gauge in it and inspected the valve seat material in mine and it is not falling apart like yours was, but it does show that the seal is not sitting evenly on the seat of the rear of valve body which would account for the slight leak I get when filling until I dry fire it for it to stop leaking.
I have some crosman brass valve with a harder delrin type seal instead of the softer vinyl seal that is used by Xisico. I pressed the shaft out of both the crosman and 60C valves and am going to make a longer shaft for the crosman to go in the valve because the shaft of the 60C is.117 in Dia and the crosman is .123 in dia and is a much tighter fit in the 60C valve body. That is why the seal is getting deformed because the stem fit is to loose in the body allowing it to cock sideways to much during operation. I will be turning an old axle from one of my on road RC cars down to go in the crosman valve because the axle is hardened steel and 1/4 inch dia so I will have plenty of metal to work with, just another project to do at my buddies.
I was wrong on the Pump action Hatsan as I went back and rechecked the prices and the S10 and PA10 models are both 355 at air gun depot. The PA10 doesn’t have the picatinny rail under the forearm to mount a bipod because it moves to load pellets which is actually a very cool feature, but I am not concerned with being able to rapid fire it anyway so I chose the S10 model
Buldawg
Buldawg
I’m glad you got the gun. I’m guessing its .22 cal. right? And I’m definitely waiting to see what you think about it. And yes I figured you had your reasons for choosing the one without the muffler (I like how that sounds instead of calling it the S word; and I think I stole the muffler saying from Reb)
And you will have to let me know how that works out on your 60. And I kept forgetting to tell you or maybe I did. But that’s how mine did before it went. The leak when you fill and then dry firing the gun to get it to stop. It didn’t take long on mine. And I haven’t looked at mine anymore. Been trying to get some time in on the HW50. But I will get back to it. So again let me know what you come up with on the 60 and your new gun. Hopefully you will have it by the weekend. 🙂
Gunfun
Yea its 22 cal for sure, I just like 22 better than 177 and if the Hatsan shoots at 1000 fps in 22 it should be a power house as BB has already shown in his review. The QE model he reviewed only has a 19.2 or3 inch barrel and then the muffler adds the extra length but does not add any velocity to the pellet, so the non QE model with roughly 4 inch longer barrel should definitely help in the fps area. I will let you know how it compares to my 60C in loudness for sure.
I already got my valve in the 60C fixed and it is a very tight fit in the valve body hole. I pressed the stems out of both the 60C and the brass valve for the pumper crosmans that I have 5 of, ( now four )
and found an old grinding stone with an 1/8 inch shaft that the stone was worn out on and busted the stone off the shaft, the hole in the crosman brass valve is .112 inches in dia were the shaft is pressed in so I took the 1/8 shaft from the grinding stone and put it my drill press and measured where I needed to size the shaft to press back in the crosman valve head and using a file clamped in my drill press vise I slowly removed metal until I got the shaft to .112″ and then with a couple drops of red Loctite pressed it back into the valve head and ground the other end of the stem to the same length as the 60C valve and the valve assy is back together and has a much better fit between the stem and body. The seat of the crosman valve is hard delrin so it should hold up better. There is very little sideways movement of the stem now and is probably about .003′ clearance to maybe .005′. I had to use the spring from the crosman valve assy because the valve head seat where the spring seats is farther down on the head which in turn hold the spring much straighter in the body also.
Now I just have to go to my buddies house tomorrow and make my fill fitting and the 60C will be back in business. I will let you know how it turns out. You may want to press the shaft out of your disco valve and make a new stem at work to equal the length of the 60c valve stem and be done with your 60c also. The stems press out quite easily.
Buldawg
Gunfun
Just got tracking info on the Hatsun and it is supposed to be here Saturday, I can’t wait for the weekend to get here. I should have my 60C back together and the Hatsun also so it will be the time for some fifty yard shooting for sure, just got to get my fire extinguisher buddy to get my scuba tank done so I have air to fill the Hatsun with without having to pump it to 2900 psi. Will let you know something Sunday. Think about my fix for the 60C /disco valve stem in the last post to you.
Buldawg
buldawg
Ain’t it great when you final get that tracking number. And I wish I could be there to see it shoot for the first time when you un-box it. That’s always so cool to me when you start opening the box and see how they package the gun. And you want to hurry up and get it out but you also want to take your time so you don’t scuff it or something.
Then its finally in your hands. Then you want to hurry up and load it up and shoot it. Then you realize maybe I really should read the instructions first. So let me know what you think about how its packaged. And I almost mentioned that about the HW I just got and my other guns I got. I keep all of my box’s and packaging my guns come in along with any tags or instructions that come with the gun. And I will say that some are layed out better than others. I know that sounds kind of weird but I do pay attention to that when I get a new gun and I’m opening it for the first time.
And I did read that about what you did to your valve in the 60 and that sounds like a good Idea. But I’m really thinking more about what I want to do. Not sure just yet. Since I’m experimenting with a different valve (the Disco valve) I think I’m going to try to make my own top hat out of derlin. I can have them order me a piece of round stock. Or I can get a piece from the scrap bin. We throw all kinds of stuff in there in case we could use it to make something else. I have took nylon blocks out of the trash at work that somebody threw away and put in or tool room/Machinist room scrap bin and machined to many things out of stuff people threw away.
And Don’t it seem like the clock stopped ticking. I love it when I order something and I know its coming. But I hate waiting for it to come. So I know what your feel’n. But when it gets here you will be happy.
Gunfun
Year I dying from anxiety waiting for it to get here and the knowing when it is getting here is sometimes worse than not knowing. I to take care when unpacking for the first time to see how well it is packed and always keep the box and packing material in case I have to ship it back or travel with it.
Yea I cower to unmanly task of reading the manual before I shoot it just because I already know it all but am just checking to see if the manufacture know how to work there own product LOL. I should have both PCPs working by Saturday so if the weather cooperates then I will be at my buddies land to sight in at 50 yards.
Is the disco valve different than the crosman pumpers, because I have the delrin valves s well as the same shape valve with a brass head instead of delrin. On the delrin there is now way to get to the stem to press it out so I modified one of my brass ones and it came out perfect with a better stem to body fit than the stock 60C valve stem. If I were you and had access to all the machine equipment I would press the stem out of the 60C valve so you make a new stem the same length as it only at .125″ diameter which is a perfect fit in the 60C valve body and then make a delrin head to press on it and you would have a perfect fitting valve that would last forever.
I will let you know all the good info when I get the AT44.
Buldawg
buldawg
The outside diameter of the valve itself for the pump gun is a smaller diameter. I don’t know if the internal parts are smaller or not. But I do know the valve they use in the 2240 the outside diameter is the same as the Disco. I will have to check that out also.
And do you keep checking your tracking info throughout the day to see where your package is at? I do. 🙂
Gunfun
Just got home from making my new fill fitting for the 60C to have gauge in the end of it and it turned out great, just got to put it back together.
Yes I check my tracking two or three time a day for sure so I know if has got lost or not and when it will arrive like a kid at Christmas.
I did not know the disco valve is bigger in dia. I know the brass valves I have for my pumpers are the same dia as the 60C valve so it is a perfect fit in the Xisico valve assy and should work for a long time. I will know by tomorrow when I get the gun all back together and fill it with pressure and shoot it, I just hope the crosman spring has about the tension as the 60C spring so I don’t have go thru tuning it all over again. The springs are the same wire dia it just that the crosman is longer than the 60C but it also fits farther down around the head of the valve for the crosman so it should be very close to the same spring pressure when the valve is assemble. I will let you know about it and my new Hatsan for sure.
Buldawg
Buldawg,
You said the other day that a local store sold the .177 Hatsan Long QE for $417. Was that an actual walk-in store — and you were in the store and saw the gun at that price? The AT44 comes in a variety of configurations, including a shorter gun without the integral silencer that’s much cheaper than the Long QE version.
Thanks,
Edith
Edith, Gunfun, Reb
The store that had the AT44s long QE was on Gun Broker and showed location as Montgomery AL, I don’t know if it is a brick and mortar store or not as I tried to find an address for them and was unsuccessful. However I have found that the Air Gun depot is having a sale right now on the AT44s10 long for 354.99 with free shipping. I was also going to purchase their air stripper for the gun . I know it will be loud, but do you all think it will be any louder than my XC60C 22 gun is. I shoot it in my backyard now and the squirrels and birds don’t seem to be bothered by the noise. I just cannot afford 500 + right now but total for the gun and stripper is only 383.89, that is what my main factor is cost.
I now it will be loud and I am ok with that.
Buldawg
buldawg
I don’t own one of the Hatsans but If your 60 was like mine when I got it. It was a very loud gun. So I’m betting the Hatsan without the muffler will also be loud. But you will know soon enough. 😉
But like I said above to you let me know when you get the gun. I want to know all about it. 🙂
Gunfun
Yeah I believe we both grew up with about the same rules and experiences just in different parts of the country. I just wish my G-kids could have some of those same experiences/lifes lessons because I think it would be a whole different world if kids nowadays had to go out and make their own fun and excitement instead of sitting front of a TV playing games or on a computer on Facebook or twitter and such. I truly believe that most of the crimes with guns committed by children today are a direct result of the video games that you can pretend to be in a war or street gang and go around shooting everyone up. the less mature kids just cannot separate reality from the videos they play and think that it works that way in real life. But I have no medical degree so its all just gut feelings, and enough said.
Buldawg
buldawg
I believe that I have to agree with you.
BB,
Dream on indeed. Seems my hunch about this being a sleeper for benchrest was correct. I would like to see the groups be closer to one hole (all shots touching). I’m betting that if you work with the gun for awhile it will do that. I’m not convinced you’ve found the best pellet for it yet. Great shooting BB and thanks for confirming my expectations. I can’t wait to see 100 yd. results.
By the way, I’ve been shooting a lot of official 25 meter USARB targets lately. Saturday I shot a conservatively scored 236 with 4x at an unconventional 35 yards with my AA S400 MPR FT. This type of score is becoming the norm for me now. Sorry for tooting my own horn but I needed to tell someone. I
am getting very excited about the future.
I may very well try one of these when they come out with wood stocks. I like everything else about it.
G&G
Nice shooting BB. I don’t care what everyone else says, you still got it.
I would like to remind you that you shot .658 inch groups at 50 yards with both your personal TX200, and from the newer model TX on loan from Pyramyd AIR. So I think the kind of results you posted here are right at the benchmark you have already established for fine rifles at this distance, and the Hatsan is in good company.
I did some searching for 50 yard results from your .177 cal Marauder to compare. I didn’t find them, but I did find a comment from a very wise and keen-eyed reader that pointed out that you had not done the 50 yard test on the .177 Marauder, and a response from you that stated you would conduct that test. You don’t want to disappoint the kids, do you BB?
SL
I hear you. I have been waiting for the .177 cal Marauder test. And now there is a synthetic stock version so that means we need to see a test at 50 yards for each. 😉
SL,
Here you go:
/blog/2014/01/benjamin-marauder-177-caliber-50-yard-test-special-part/
B,.B.
BB
You sure did test the wood one. And I would say weather conditions played a role in those groups. Maybe since your on a roll you will test the .177 cal. synthetic stock Marauder.
I don’t know if you have shot one of the .177 calibers with the new air valve in them yet. They definitely have a flatter power curve then the wood Marauders. And more shots per fill. Well mine does anyway.
Will you be testing the synthetic stock .177 cal. Marauder?
GF1,
Probably not. The action did change a little, but the guns are so similar that I think I will go on to other things.
B.B.
So the Marauder does not come off as well. My first question… Have we figured out why the Hatsan did so well this time and poorly before? If not, then all eyes will look to see this shooting repeated. 🙂
Matt61
Thank you BB, I don’t know why that blog didn’t come up when I searched for it.
And I was hoping this gun was going to do good. But I think there is something in the air. Or the Earths gravitational pull is in line with moon and the Coriolis effect has all came together at the right point in time.
So I got to show some of the groups I got with the HW 50 S Sunday. I posted them on the part 4 of the Shamal but I will post them here if anybody wants to see. And this is the same post.
Here is the pictures. And don’t make fun of my target please. Its a phone book with three 2×4′s cut to size and duct taped to the back of the phone book. Then I wrap around the tape over the front and around the back up and down wise then side to side. Then I just draw a blue circle with my ball point pen. Then once you shoot at it you just add some more tape. And draw more circle targets. This phone book has over 500 shots to it and still ready for more. And its fairly quiet when the pellet hits.
But here it goes. hope it works.
http://s1373.photobucket.com/user/gcars/media/0623141236_zps38f6f671.jpg.html
http://s1373.photobucket.com/user/gcars/media/0623141235_zps66d721ca.jpg.html
The one picture with the flyer is when I had my finger resting on the trigger and the gun fired. (yes I adjusted the trigger and its on the light side) And both pictures are 5 shot groups at 50 yards bench resting the gun. This gun is on the money. Very happy I got it.
I was going to say how much I liked that first group until I read that these were from 50 yards. I love ’em!
Gonna be a good one!
Reb
Reb
It was one of my better days shooting. But yep the gun amazes me everytime I shoot it. It doesn’t act like any spring gun that I have ever shot before.
The HW 50 has some good velocities for target shooting from what Im reading, do you have any chrony numbers for yours? I can imagine it must be fun to shoot, sometimes I wish the springers I get were more tame, but I can’t help craving the power. I, unsuccessfully to some extent, try to coerce them into shooting groups like yours and B.B.s, it just doesn’t work like that. Good job guys.
RDNA
Here is some chrony results from the HW50S. I already had about 250 pellets through the gun with these numbers. I posted them over the weekend in BB’s article about compramise.
695
695
693
692
692
692
694
695
692
694
That’s the JSB 10.3′s
And I went ahead and did the Superdomes that are 8.3 grn.
757
751
760
758
753
755
759
751
760
757
I think you can see wich pellet I used for the pictures of the targets. The JSB’s. Look how tight the velocity spread is with them. But there is something I did to help me with the groups.
I kept turning the magnification down on the scope till the dot in the middle of the reticle matched the diameter of my dot I drew on the paper. And I shoot with both eyes open. So a funny thing happens when I look through the scope. Its a Gamo 3×9 scope with a etched glass reticle. But the dot appears transparent as I place it over the the dot I drew on the target. I think that happens because of my eye sight. But it was very easy to keep the gun held on target.
I forgot the gun did speed up. I had more shots through the gun when I shot those groups. It sped up about 50 fps more when I shot those groups.
I am not going to make fun of your target, however I am going to make fun of your photo skills. 😉
That is some nice shooting, especially with a sproinger.
I like my triggers on the light side also. BB doesn’t like how I like to set them up. He likes a lot of 1st stage compared to the way I like mine. I like just enough to let your finger know it has found the trigger, then you think shoot and it goes off. Most of my airguns are for 10 meter, so you get used to a trigger you can adjust to a very fine line. Also, since none of them have safeties, you learn not to put your finger on the trigger until you are ready for it to go off. When you grab up something else, they feel horrible.
RR
I’m terrible at photography. But you know whats funny. That was one of my dads hobby’s. I remember when I was a kid he had a dark room set up in the garage. Again something I should of payed more attention to when I was a kid.
But I really think I got lucky with this gun cause it will sure shoot. My 54 air king wont shoot that good out at 50 yards. Almost but not as good. And again my first HW so I don’t know. Do they all shoot good or did I really get lucky??
All I know is it makes me want to get a HW30. I was thinking about this Hatsan but I think I’m good on the PCP guns. And it sure is nice to just pick up the HW50 and shoot. None of that filling up the bottle stuff like PCP guns.
But it does look like this Hatsan BB is testing is a shooter that’s for sure. And I know you said in the past you like long range shooting. Maybe the Hatsan will be able to stretch it out. Will see.
Gunfun 1,
Based on my experience with the HW30S, the R9(which is the HW95) and your experience with the HW50 it would appear that most, if not all) HWs are that good.
G&G
G&G
Thanks. And you said you have a HW30 right? If Im remembering right that you do have one. Does it have a noticable kick to it or is it calm? My 50 is calm.
GF1,
Yes I do own the HW30s. There is no kick at all. Dead calm.
G&G
G&G
Good thats what Im after. The 30 is looking more and more tempting to me.
Maybe PA will do another 13% off sale but with free shipping. And hopefully I will have some money if they do it.
Maybe I need to sell some of my RC airplane stuff so I can be ready. 🙂
RR,
Several pictures were taken with the camera set at ASA 800, instead of the 80 I usually use. I also didn’t zoom in before taking the pictures.
This is a good lesson that I will incorporate in my future photo lessons.
B.B.
I was ragging GF1, however upon review, I see a couple of yours are somewhat lacking.
That’s what happens when you take a picture from a phone. Well when I take a picture from a phone anyway. 🙂
Gunfun 1,
Excellent shooting. I’m glad to see your new HW50S is everything you wanted. I love it when that happens, which it doesn’t always do. On Saturday I took my R9 out to our USARB Club shoot just to try it out there. I didn’t do any official target shooting with it. However, frequently we’ll put up boards with rows of 1/2″ diameter bulls eyes on it. So I started shooting one of these at 35 yards (our 50 yard lanes are not quite ready yet). I had not shot my R9 in a long time so I was somewhat surprised when nearly every shot hit the 1/2″ bulls eye, not dead center of course but in the circle. I plan to start shooting the R9 more often but it does have quite a bit of twang to it which is annoying. I guess I’ll probably stay with the LGV as my main springer.
G&G
G&G
Thanks. And I think the PCP guns spoil us with their smoothness,quietness and lack of movement when we shoot them.
And I would say that is very good shooting with your R9. What type of sight do you have on it?
GF1,
Right now I have a Centerpoint Adventure Class 4-16×44 mil-dot scope on it. An excellent budget scope I might add.
G&G
G&G
Is it still clear at 12 power and up? I have had a few Centerpoint scopes and had good luck with them.
I’m surprised that the HW50S and R9 are that accurate at 50 yds. I had been thinking that I’d need a TX 200 Mk III or go to a PCP to get those results.
Jim
You don’t know how bad I wanted a TX200 mrkIII. Evreytime I think I had enough money something would come up. So I ended up getting the HW50S when PA had that Friday the 13th sale with 13% off.
And the only bad luck I had so far with the gun is that Friday the 13th sale could of been 13% off plus free shipping. Other then that the gun is excellent. 🙂
Jim K.,
Just to be clear I was shooting the R9 at 35 yards but it will do very well at 50. On the other hand the Walther LGVs are known to have PCP accuracy. At least mine does. It takes a lot of practice though and is not nearly as easy to shoot as a PCP.
G&G
Sweeeeet. If I had a rifle and the talent to shoot those groups, well I’d suspect I was in heaven or hallucinating. I’d probably call my friends, and they’d say, Yeah, that’s great. Yup. But, I’d still be jumping up and down.
Great shots from both you and B.B.
I wish P.A. Would host a picture sight where we could put our best shots with each rifle/pistol (including info about pellets and other influencing factors.) not only would I like to see how everyone else is doing with x-rifle, it would help me select the rifle and pellets I purchase. P.A.?
Rob
Rob,
You can post your images on Pyramyd Air’s site. There are thousands of customer pics already. For instance, go to this page for the Hatsan AT44 Long QE rifle:
/product/hatsan-at44-10-long-qe-air-rifle?m=3390
Look under the thumbnail images below the main image of the gun. See the blue text that says “Share your own images”? Click on that link on any product page, and you’ll go to a page to upload your pics for that product and any accompanying text you want to add.
Edith
Thanks, Edith!
Rob
Thanks. And again that was my best day so far shooting the 50. Lets just see if it will produce those results again.
And I would like to know if other people are getting good groups with the R9 and HW’s? I think At some point in time I will have another one I hope.
GF1, I purchased a HW 97k .20cal blue laminate just before winter and have broken it out on several occasions. Right out of the box it’s lazer beam accurate and smooth cocking and shooting. There is spring twang but not bad and could be tuned someday but i’m in no rush. I have not been shooting for groups as much yet just sighting in and getting use to a high quality springer. BUT when I grab just that gun and go to shoot I can do sub 1 inch easy at 45-50 yards and sometimes half inch or less with a couple of hole in hole shot’s. Laser beams… Just can’t shoot my gas ram or PCP first as it screw’s me up for shooting the sproinger after.
Ricka
Thats good to hear. I know Im liking my HW50.
B.B.,
The way things are going you should grab that NP2 and go for a Hat Trick-3 fer 3 on Dead Ringers!?
Good luck!
Reb
BB
You said the Condor did 1” groups at a hundred yards and wondered if this gun would do it.
All I got to say is concentration my friend, concentration. 😉
But seriously ain’t it nice when a gun wants to group. But really to call it a good shooter it has to do it more than one time. Well more like it needs to group good quite a few times.
Just like the groups that I showed for the HW 50 S. It was a dead calm day. And It was one of those days for me that I could hit good. It seemed my vision was real good and I didn’t have sweat running down into my eyes either burning them. I was more than steady when I held the guns for some reason.
We have 4 buckeye trees right were the corner of the yard starts the woods which is about 12 yards past were I put my 50 yard targets at. The buckeyes are still green and starting to grow. So they are right around a inch in diameter. Some bigger. Some smaller. I was hitting them everytime with the .177 and .25 cal. Marauders. And that was even shooting at the the ones I already hit and blew half of the side off. The HW 50 couldn’t quite keep up at the 60 plus yards. I did hit a few with it though. And that was bench resting the guns.
But a hundred yard 1” groups is some serious stuff. Have you been able to repeat that with the Condor or did you call it quits with one session of shooting it. If it will do it over and over again then you got one heck of a gun and your one heck of a shooter. 🙂
The article showing his condor groups was on January 15, 2013. Don’t have a link. Sorry.
11 shots, 1.003 inches at 100 yards using JSB 18.1 gr unsorted.
Very impressive especially for those of us that have spent some time shooting airguns at long range.
kevin
Kevin,
Here you go.
/blog/2013/01/airforces-new-condor-and-condor-ss-part-1/
B.B.
That’s unreal. That’s almost as good as my Anschutz with a much less powerful set-up.
Matt61
B.B.,
One major difference between you and me is………..IF I wrote this blog I would attach that 11 shot picture of the group shot at 100 yards EVERY DAY.
kevin
kevin I do remember reading that.
The AirForce guns are definitely good guns for bench resting that’s for sure.
You know, everytime I’m up at odd hours of the night and click on the blog, the first thing I glance at is the amount of comments so far posted by other crazy night owls such as myself. I saw the number 14 and immediately thought to myself, something is going on here. A rifle that BB saw fit to extend out to the 100 yard forbidden zone / promised land no less! How utterly amazing would it be to see some groups shot at 100 that most rifles couldn’t touch at 50, maybe even 25 in some cases? So in other words, no pressure BB, no pressure at all! All of us dyed in the wool airgunning freaks aren’t essentially foaming at the mouth or anything. Haha! One last thing, me and my grandfather are going to be going on our yearly trip up to the upper peninsula of Michigan soon. I remember reading before that Michigan has some wacky laws that effectively turn airguns into firearms, if only legally. I can’t remember if it applies to rifles, pistols or whatever, but if anyone knows I’d appreciate if you would let me know. After about an hour of searching online I ended up more confused than I started out as I couldn’t find any solid answers. I’m only asking because I’d like to bring one of mine with me because I have a million awesome places to use it at up there (ie: access to various family owned land) but If I’m going to be running afoul of the law somehow I’d really rather not even bother with it.
BB,
If I am not mistaken, if you were to take the clamps on the rings and spin them around you would find they do not look so defunctified. They are made that way because of the lack of standards in not only the depth and angle of the groove, but the width also. Yes, it is supposed to be a standard, but…
RR,
Oh, I have done that! They look exactly the same both ways.
B.B.
It would seem that mounts like these would not be perfectly centered on the rail except by chance. If one side is fixed and the other side clamps down on various width rails the center of the mount will vary in relation to the center of the rail.
I know BKL overcomes this issue with their mounts by flexing on each side but they don’t make weaver rings.
If the center line of the scope is offset to the center of the bore the poi will change from left to right at different distances.
What a mess.
Mark N
Mark,
It may seem that way, but it’s not. These mounts always center perfectly.
As I said, I learned about this from Dan Bechtel, whose B-Square company was, at one time, one of the best-known scope mount makers in the world.
B.B.
Yeah that would kill me, the angle like that. It just seems wrong, a weak connection that puts to much stress on the screw. I would looking for my DTP adapters at this point. Those are some good groups though, I would be very happy to post those for the sharp eyes here on the blog, even if we have to put our glasses on, yes I already need reading glasses 100% of the time, even though I have 20/20 vision…. weird huh? I guess I would’ve been crosseyed as a kid, now Im crosseyed as an adult instead! Anyway…. Been unimaginably busy, so glad to come back to such good shooting, keep it up B.B.
B.B. –
Good blog this morning! Sharp shooting. When you get groups like that at longer distances, how do you keep it to yourself for as long as you do? Most people would be posting from the range!
The more I read, the more interested I am in the Hatsan PCP’s. The quality seems to be getting better, and there is no arguing with the way they shoot. With all of the good reports of accuracy floating around, these kinds of groups don’t seem to be that uncommon. Apparently, the Turks are figuring out how to consistently make a good airgun barrel. Wanting a good, sturdy, simple hunting rifle, I recently bought a Webley Raider made by Hatsan. Like this one, the accuracy surprised me. Definitely a keeper.
I appreciate you following up on my request to double-check the fit of Weaver rings on this mount. Good to see that they work. My concern was actually the shallow depth of the crosscuts, and whether or not the rod in the rings would allow the rings to seat all the way down. As you pointed out above, the lack of standards for weaver mounts results in a lot of variation in how parts from different manufacturers fit together. We certainly know that UTG rings will work. That’s good for me.
Speaking of UTG rings… I have the same rings, and wanted to offer an observation that would help with the way yours are fitting in the photo. The clamping piece is actually asymmetrical. It has a short leg and a long leg. This allows the user to select a configuration that will securely fit wider and narrower mounts by simply flipping that piece over. In the photo, it looks like flipping the clamping piece over would square up the installation. Check it out. I think you’ll like it.
Regards,
– Jim
Jim,
I have flipped the jaw like you said. It is still offset like it is in the picture.
I’m glad you got what you wanted from this.
B.B.
Is the difference between weaver and picattiney just the spaces of the notches? Or are there other dimensional changes? Im sure its an easy find but might be good to have that info logged here too.
I’ll second this question.
The Weaver “standard” is not so much the spacing of the slots, but the width across the mount. With the Picatanny (or however you spell it), the width across, the spacing of the slots, the width and depth of the slots, etc. are supposedly “standard”. Weaver and Picatanny are usually compatible because the width across the mount is supposedly the same.
Wikipedia usually had those details…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weaver_rail_mount#Compatibility_with_Picatinny
Man am I glad you got those results! I’ve been saying my AT44 is accurate and Hatsan knew how to make accurate PCP’s and now there’s proof for the best there is in the business.
Thanks for the scope base report too, I tought mine was defective but since it seemed solid and shot well, I kept it like that. I’m happy to know it’s supposed to be like that but it DOES look weird and like it shouldn’t be like that.
J-F
B.B.,
WOW.
That is obviously one heck of an air rifle! And great calm weather to boot.
But man, you are in a ZONE. Really. All of these things seem to have come together, a la the stars aligning. Git you to an airgun competition immediately! Benchrest, Field Target, 10 meter pistol, something! Strike while the griddle is still smokin’!
Michael
B.B.
This is incredible shooting Sir & one helluva gun for sure. But then I clicked on the Condor SS link, Wow!! .5 ins at 50 yds. Don’t think ANYTHING can touch the Airforce guns for accuracy, power, versatility & sheer functional appeal. I also must mention that however good a gun is, its performance will depend on the skill of the shooter to a great extent as well. Go on keep shocking us.
Errol
BB,
very well done. Some great shooting and as SL says, “you still got it”.
Thought you’d like to know that I replaced the Bushmasters’ buffer retainer pin and spring and still had the problem of the pin and spring hopping out of the hole and fouling in the bolt on recoil so I did what any intelligent person would do. I posted the question to Google and, voila, a solution appeared. On an AR15 forum, others had this problem which is due to the buffer tube (the tube in the stock that holds the buffer and spring – this is for the recoil of the bolt) not being screwed in enough into the stock. It apparently is held in the stock by a castle nut. The solution is to loosen the nut and turn the buffer tube in until it’s even with the stock end and thereby hold the pin in place with just the teat of the pin poking up to halt the buffer. I thought the buffer itself was what held the pin and spring in place but obviously not. I’ll adjust tonight and see if this is the answer.
Again, nice job with the Hatsun. Now we need a shootoff between the Marauder, the Talon and the Hatsun for most accurate rifle in the hands of BB Pelletier.
Fred DPRoNJ
I second that.
Every time I ask I get a different answer about if PA can ship these to Michigan. So far opinion poll from PA stands at 50% yes they can now ship this and 50% no because the barrel shape is not allowed except through an FFL dealer. Does anybody KNOW what the actual law says now?
I’m wondering the same thing about Michigan airgun laws. I asked that myself on the blog earlier today and so far no replies, so maybe everyone else is just as confused as we are about just exactly what the laws are. I’m no lawyer so I can hardly make sense of the actual state law pages I’ve found as they are written in gobbledy gook lawyer speak. Maybe its one of those situation where they dont even know what the laws are themselves, but if you ever get picked up regardless, then they break out the law books, thumb through them with a notepad and start putting checkmarks next to whatever might loosely apply. :::sigh::::
John,
I asked Pyramyd AIR to give me an ironclad answer to this, and the president of the company just told me that if you order this gun, it will ship to a Michigan address. It will go directly to you, no FFL required. I hope you enjoy your gun 🙂
Edith
Edith,
I live in Michigan and just tried to order this rifle while PA was having their 10% off sale this past Superbowl weekend and my order was canceled. The support person from PA I emailed back and forth with said they couldn’t ship it because of the Michigan law against silencers/suppressors. They did say I could order the non-QE version of the AT44. I may go that route but, I really would prefer the QE – plus now I’ll need to wait until PA offers another sale since I lost out on the 10% off.
Does anyone know what’s going on with Michigan laws? I thought non removable suppressors were ok?
Phil
Phil,
I’ve forwarded your comment to the call center manager and will let you know what he says.
Edith
Phil,
Our call center manager (Chuck Citraro) said he’s going to handle this and contact you.
Edith
Thanks Edith. I did hear from the call center today – I wasn’t able to take the call but they left a nice message stating they were informed today that this gun could be shipped to Michigan. I replied via email to Pyramyd support and am waiting to find out if the previous price on my canceled order will be matched if I re-order.
Thanks again for your help with this, it’s nice to know we have someone to reach out to when questions/issues like this come up.
Phil
So far as I have read, the only thing MI did with regards to silencers is decree that the Federal transfer tax on them constitutes a “license” and hence such would be allowed by MI law requiring silencers be licensed. The prior interpretation was that the license had to be issued by the state — and the state didn’t issue any!
The state may allow suppressed airguns, but they probably have to go through an FFL dealer. Pellet pistols with rifling even require one to go through the permit to purchase/registration paperwork (the bills that would have reclassified airguns were vetoed by the governor; technically, even an AirSoft is a “firearm” in this state — as the exclusion is for smoothbore of .177 caliber and AirSoft is around .24 caliber).
BB,
I got the notification email that the HW30s are back in stock at PA, so I finally ordered one with the $10 for 10, and the Droop scope base. I read that the HW double jointed cocking lever sometimes makes contact with the receiver tube. Would pellgun oil be good for lubricating that linkage? I know not to get any inside the compression chamber, I have the correct beeman chamber oil for when it needs that. Do you think that the Bushnell dusk to dawn Banner 4x12AO would be ok? or too big? That’s the scope that I am planning on mounting on it.
Jim
Jim,
Any good oil will lubricate the cocking link — including Pellgunoil. Yes, that scope will be large on the rifle, but give it a try. I think you’ll like how it let’s you see the target.
B.B.
Jim,
Lubricating the cocking link to eliminate the receiver galling prominent in some weihrauch guns like the R7/HW30 models isn’t the solution.
You need an HW/Beeman Cocking Lever Insert like the ones that ARH sells. If you have an older R7/HW30 you won’t need to shim the insert. If you have a newer R7/HW30 you will probably need to shim the insert a little. Last ones I bought were around $3.00.
kevin
kevin
Does the HW50 have the same cocking link as the HW30?
Gunfun1,
Assume you’re talking about your new HW 50 which was formerly known as the HW99 and Beeman R6 and not the older HW50 which was also known as the Beeman R8 and very similar to the HW55 since they’re VERY different guns with different velocities, different cocking efforts, etc.?
If you’re referring to the NEW HW50 then the answer is yes. The new HW50 has the same double jointed cocking lever like the HW30 and the R7, HW35, old HW50, HW55, R8 and old HW50.
You need to keep an eye on your new HW50 for galling on the receiver which is not uncommon. Fortunately it’s easily and cheaply fixed if it does start occurring.
BTW, nice groups with your HW50 that isn’t even broken in yet! A suggestion to hopefully tighten your groups even more……….rather than a circle with a blue pen as a point of aim try a cross. Use a straight edge to draw your vertical line and use your straight edge to draw the horizontal line as close to 90* as possible.
Overlay the crosshairs in your scope onto these lines. If this requires that the rifle is somewhat canted so be it. Consistent canting beats inconsistent canting when shooting for small groups.
kevin
kevin
Yes I was talking about my new HW50S. And thanks for all the info.
And thanks about the groups I shot. And whats funny is I was just plinking with the 50 and my Marauders at spinners and the leaves that were laying on the ground and it was hitting just about everything the Marauders were hitting. So I decided to put my target out with a few circles drawn on the my target stop I made like usual and propped it up against my bail of hay.
I shot the groups on like 4 power I think it was. So when I went out to check I was supprised how well it grouped.
But I will try the horizontal and vertical lines the next time I shoot it and see if I can get serious and put 10 of them in .500” to .750” @ 50 yards instead of only 4 or 5 pellets. I hope anyway. 🙂
Thanks Kevin, I will probably pick one up, even if I don’t need it.
Jim,BB, sorry not dumping on the Bushnell banner but for the money or a little more there are some excellent options in scopes. Read all the reviews and check the numbers on Pyramid and other sites before you buy a scope, you just don’t sound sure and I have been down that road. If your shooting under 50 yards why not consider a 4×32 scope as there are many new ones available and some with AO’s. It would keep your gun light and later if you decide to go bigger you will know better what you want.
Jim,
On maximum scope length for your HW30s, I have a scope 13 7/8″ on mine and it just barely fits. The objective bell is about 1/4″ from the breach when broke open. And the eyepiece is in correct position for me. I will add though that I don’t lean forward as much as some people do when I rest my cheek on the stock to sight. So maybe 13 1/2″ to be safe.
David H
Thanks Dave, Ricka and BB,
I have an older R9 with a Bushnell airgun 3x9AO which has been discontinued for a long time now. If I have to, I will swap the scopes and put the smaller 3×9 on the HW30s, but I think I want to try the 4x12AO first. I have a hay bale backstop in my yard about 23 yards from the back door, and besides the bells and targets on the backstop, I have a plank on the ground infront of it coated with duct seal, and a bunch of little green army men stuck in it. With the HW30s accuracy that I read about, I think 12x would be perfect for that. 🙂 I will let you know if it fits. Ricka, I already have the 4x12AQ. I agree about scopes, the little bugbuster 3x9ao is pretty nice, I have it on a QB78 at the moment.
Gunfun, the HW50 does have the same linkage, but I have not seen any posts about that model having the galling issues. I have only seen it mentioned on older HW30s. I think the new ones do not have that issue. But for something that has close to match grade accuracy, its worth a drop of oil on the linkage every tin of pellets. I wish I had the time to wear out an air rifle. 🙂
Jim
Jim,
I bought my HW30S about 16 mos. ago and it shows no signs of galling.
G&G
Jim
Im going to lube it Im thinking.
And only if there was more time.
How does this thread, and almost any thread, get derailed? Who cares about the HW30S on this thread?
I am so very tempted by this rifle. I just wish, wish, wish Hatsan would find a way to make their guns lighter. I would use a gun like this to hunt with, but I am simply not going to lug an 8.6 lb gun plus another couple of pounds for scope and mount. I do have to say that this is the first Hatsan pcp that is very attractive. Previous models seem gaudy and tacky to me but this one is stylish and not overstated. So it ticks one very important box (accuracy), one less important box (looks), but is simply too heavy for me to consider as a carry through the woods gun.
I bought this rifle about a month ago. I also own a diana 34 & a 48, but wanted to get into the pcp ring. I was not disappointed. I do not have much arm strength so being able to hold the rifle tightly without it affecting my accuracy (as with the recoil in spring piston rifles) was a boon. However I wanted to ask you guys something. Whenever I change the air cylinder to refill it, once I install it again all hell breaks loose and it loses all accuracy (shooting from a bench, both with artillery hold & a tight hold). I zero it again, and works flawlessly until the next refill. Should I always fill it while connected to the rifle? Am I doing something wrong? I tested the scopes (Hawke Airmax EV & UTG) with my RWS and they show no problems.
Claudio,
Welcome to the blog!
I think the problem you are experiencing has nothing to do with your scopes. I think it has to do with how you fill the rifle. I recommend filling the tank while it is connected to the rifle. I have used tanks that disconnect on other guns and, with the exception of the older AirForce guns, I found them not to be practical.
Also, be careful that you aren’t overfilling the gun. To check that, try filling to an indicated 3000 one time and shoot until the rifle becomes accurate, then fill to 2800 and try it again. You will find the max fill (indicated on your gauge) this way. The numbers on the gauge are for reference, but they are not exact. Once you find where things work well, fill to that number, whatever it is and keep doing it like that.
While the artillery hold is okay for a PCP, all it really does is enforce follow-through, which is necessary with any gun. There is no harmful vibration to mess things up.
B.B.
Thanks for the quick response and for the warm welcome, I wish we had forums and blogs like this in Chile. Now that you mention it, I’ve been filing the cylinder within the “green zone” visible on the gauge on top, just a bit below red (by my pump meter, it is about 2800 PSI). While shooting this afternoon, once I held the rifle tightly and started going down on pressure shots tended to come closer together.
Claudio,
Those gun gauges are known for their inaccuracy. Do what I recommended and then check the gun’s gauge when the shots tighten up. That will get you into the right zone.
Good luck.
B.B.
Hello Tom,
I did as you suggested and indeed, accuracy started coming back at around 150-250 bar. I got two rabbits, one with the best shot I ever made (about 50 yards, right behind the eyes). Unfortunately the bliss has been short lived, since I tried shooting today and found that the cylinder was empty (I noticed since the first two shots didn’t come out). I refilled the cylinder and heard a leak on the top end (gauge end) coming from the valve hole. I emptied it again and tried dismounting it as shown on several sites but it is too tightly sealed (which is both good and bad). I suspect that humidity has corroded the innermost o-ring at the top, so I would suggest other gunners to use air sources that provide moisture free air (I work at a hospital and will try to fill up one of those quick refill bottles). As I live overseas I will have to order a new cylinder unless any of you can help me getting the top open (I have nothing to lose). Thanks again.
Claudio,
I can’t help you get that tank open. I think you know how to do it. It takes muscle and the right wrench.
Good luck!
B.B.