by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
This report covers:
• Introduction to 3 new pellets
• Test design
• Today’s test
• The pellet
• FWB 300S air rifle
• Crosman Challenger PCP rifle
• Bottom line
Introduction to 3 new pellets
Today, I’m doing something different. Pyramyd AIR has 3 different wadcutter pellets from the Chinese manufacturer Qiang Yuan. One is a standard-grade pellet they call the Qiang Yuan Training Pellet. The second is an upscale target pellet they call the Qiang Yuan Match Pellet. And, the top-of-the-line Qiang Yuan Olympic Pellet. Unlike Chinese wadcutters of the past, these 3 are not trying to compete on price. In each of their categories, they cost as much as or more than well-known premium pellets. I think a comparison test is in order.
Qiang Yuan is a pellet name that’s unknown in the U.S. Olympic pellets in the red box (200), match-grade pellets in the yellow box (200) and training pellets in the round tin (500). These 3 will each be pitted against equivalent pellets that are well known.
Test design
My test will pit these pellets against well-known established pellets of similar quality. Since I don’t know how accurate these pellets are, I am basing the test on their product titles and prices. These are all wadcutters, so the test will be conducted only at 10 meters. Wadcutter pellets of all types scatter wildly after about 25 yards, so they are primarily a target pellet, with secondary use for close-range critter control.
I’ll shoot all pellets from 2 rifles — an FWB 300S and a Crosman Challenger PCP The 300S is my most accurate 10-meter spring-piston rifle, and the Challenger is the best 10-meter PCP I have access to. Both rifles have been used in this blog several times in the past. All shooting will be done from a bag rest to keep as much of me as possible out of the picture.
Today’s test
Today, I’ll pit the Qiang Yuan Training Pellet against the popular RWS Hobby. Hobbys are certainly considered to be training pellets, and they cost almost 2 dollars less than the Qiang Yuan Training Pellets for the same quantity of 500, so this should be a fair test. Since I’m shooting 2 different accurate rifles, both pellets will have an equal chance to excel.
The pellet
The Chinese Training Pellet weighs 8.2 grains. The skirt is smooth, and the skirt walls are thin. Looking closely at the pellet, I see that it’s well made.
The Qiang Yuan Training Pellet is well-formed and looks uniform.
The RWS Hobby pellet weighs just 7 grains in comparison. The skirt has ridges and is also thin. This appears to be a well-made pellet on inspection, and of course its performance history bears that out.
FWB 300S
The first rifle I shot was the FWB 300S, and the first pellet was the RWS Hobby. Shot one confirmed the rifle was still sighted-in and I didn’t look at the target again until all 10 shots had been fired. Ten pellets made a group at 10 meters that measured 0.328 inches between centers. If this seems large, remember there are 10 pellets instead of just 5.
Ten RWS Hobby pellets went into 0.328 inches at 10 meters when fired from the FWB 300S.
Now it was the new pellet’s turn. I noted that when it loaded, it fit the FWB 300S breech much looser than the RWS Hobby had.
As before, I checked to make sure the first shot was in the bull and didn’t look again until all 10 shots had been fired. Lo and behold, 10 Qiang Yuan Training Pellets went into 0.234 inches at the same 10 meters from the FWB 300S. This is a clear and obvious improvement over Hobbys.
The FWB 300S put 10 Qiang Yuan Training Pellets into 0.234 inches at 10 meters. It’s easy to see this is a smaller group.
If these had been just 5-shot groups, there might have been cause to wonder about random luck. But with 10 pellets in each group, luck plays no part. The Qiang Yuan Training Pellets did the best.
Crosman Challenger PCP
Next up was the Crosman Challenger PCP target rifle. The rear sight fell off the rifle as I was filling it, so I remounted it and had to sight-in the rifle, again. As you’ll see, I didn’t quite get the groups centered — but it was good enough for this test.
First up were the RWS Hobbys. The Challenger put 10 of them in a group that measures 0.424 inches at 10 meters. You can see some tendency for the pellets to string on a diagonal.
Ten RWS Hobby pellets went into 0.424 inches at 10 meters when fired from the Crosman Challenger PCP.
Now, it was the Qiang Yuan pellet’s turn. This time, 10 went into a very round 0.181-inch group — the best group of the day!
The Crosman Challenger PCP put 10 Qiang Yuan Training Pellets into 0.181 inches at 10 meters. This was the best group of the day!
This test turned out better than I’d hoped. I say that because there’s a clear winner. And, also, because it’s easy to see how one pellet shoots better in one test rifle than the other.
Bottom line
The Qiang Yuan pellet beat the Hobby in both rifles today. It’s earned a spot among those pellets we call premium. Yes, they do cost significantly more than Hobbys; but, if I were shooting a match with either of these rifles, I would pick this pellet over the Hobbys.
How does this brand compare to your dwindling stash of match Chinese pellets?
Siraniko,
I’m wondering that myself. I haven’t tested the really good pellets yet, but when I do I guess we’ll see.
My Chinese pellets were sold on price, alone. Target pellets for $4 and change per tin. These would have cost $8, in comparison at that time.
B.B.
So here’s the questions.
Just because these pellets did good and they are lower on the totum pole of the 3. Does that mean the new match grade pellets and Olympic pellets will group better than these training pellets you tested today?
Or will each gun used today shoot those other 2 types worse or better than the training pellets?
Gunfun
It aint going to matter to you as when have you shot at ten meters recently, you generally shoot at 50 to 70 yards so I just don’t see you buying much less shooting any of these pellets any way LOL
It is interesting to see the Chinese pellets out shoot well known premium pellets in this first test.
BB
I don’t know if you have heard of or can get any of these pellets which is what they use at the CMP range here in town, but they are Vogel brand match wadcutters and they shoot very well in the daisy 887 and challengers they have to shoot at our local CMP range and I can buy them for 8.75 per 500 pellets. So for target practice they are a good deal for just letting the kids plink in the back yard and was just curious if you have had any experience with that brand pellet.
BD
Buldawg
That is true. I very seldom shoot at 10 meters.
But I guess what I was getting at is that the other 2 pellet types the match grade and the Olympic grade pellets are suppose to be better pellets.
But what if they actually don’t shoot as good in BB’s 2 guns. What if the training pellets are the best in his guns. Does that mean that the lower cost training pellets are better quality. Or is it the guns barrels and power plants better for the training pellets.
Even though I don’t shoot 10 meter that much I want to see what results the higher grade QY pellets produce verses what the lower grade QY pellet produced that BB just shot. Maybe the groups will get better as the grade of pellet increases.
The pellets do look good. And like BB said the wadcutters are nice for closer range pest control. They help when you don’t want to over penetrate and take a chance of damaging the surroundings.
That being said I would like to see what each grade of pellet will do out at 25 yards. Can you do that BB with these new pellets.
GF1,
Odds are they will do quite well, but you never know. The only way to be sure is to try them with each particular air rifle as you well know. Two identical air rifles are not going to shoot identically.
Gunfun
I was just picking at you and I to am interested to see just how well the other two higher grade pellets stack up against the ones BB shot in this test as I don’t do much 10 meter shooting either but my close range target backstop id just a hair over ten meters at 40 feet so those pellets will be very comparable at those ranges as well.
I to would like to see what they will do at 25 yards.
BD
Buldawg
Yep I know your pick’n. You know me. All good.
And I have used the Daisy department chain store wadcutters before along with RWS wadcutters with surprisingly good results out to about 30 yards.
But I think the gun has a lot to do with if the wadcutters shoot good or not.
After all they kind of resemble that dumbell shape that tends to work with the big bore guns.
It’s all about the combination.
Gunfun
I had not thought about the dumb bell shaped slug that did work so good in the big bore guns and a wad cutter does resemble those pretty close.
It is all about the combo that’s for sure and some guns will shoot them good and some wont just the same as any other pellets.
BD
Buldawg
You got it. 🙂
BD,
Vogel is a quality pellet made in Tennessee I believe. He used them when he did his review of the AirForce Edge.
RR
I am glad to see that they are made here in the USA as most such items seem to be going to cheaper labor cost counties these days.
BD
BD,
I have several tins of Vogel pellets. My friend, Scott Pilkington, makes them. But I don’t think Vogels do best in either of these 2 rifles.
B.B.
BB
so you don’t think they are considered a premium pellet or is just that you have shot them in your two guns and the guns don’t seem to like them that well.
BD
BD,
Vogle is more than just a premium pellet. They are world-class competition pellets. They simply do not work best in either of these 2 rifles.
B.B.
BB
I am just curious because that is what the CMP range sells and use in their guns that are for non members to shoot and they do have challenger guns there to shoot with as well as the 853s and 887s
I have shot all three guns there and they are capable of hitting the 10.9 ring very consistently especially with the challenger guns.
BD
BD,
You have to bear in mind that what the CMP sells is what works for them — to sell. You cannot make generalizations about competition ammunition. Vogle pellets are “good enough” to sell as world-class competition pellets, but when a real competitor selects a pellet to shoot he tests by pellet, head size and lot. Then he buys as much of that lot as he can afford (30,000-50,000) and uses it. That much will last a year or more in competition and practice.
Just because the CMP sells Vogle pellets doesn’t make them the best for any one gun. That’s like saying that NASCAR races stock cars.
I used to compete (at the regional level) in 10-meter pistol. I don’t look at things the same as an organization looks at them. I look at them the way a competitor looks at them. I need to find the one best pellet for the gun I will shoot in competition. That’s what I meant when I said Vogle pellets don’t shoot that well in either of the 2 rifles I am using in this test.
B.B.
BB
I do understand that world class Olympic shooter are very anal about the pellets they shoot and do spend countless hours sorting pellets to buy thousands at a times.
I also understand that you stated above that the Vogels did not shoot god in your challenger or 300s and was just curious as if it was just your guns that don’t like them or if you felt that the 300s and challenger gun as a whole do not shoot them good.
As far as NASCAR is concerned it did start as stock cars as that is what the name NASCAR stands for is North American Stock Car Auto Racing. What is raced today is the farthest thing there could be from a North American Stock Car Auto Racing as these new million dollar lookalike on the outside only are to me an insult to the racing heritage that once was NASCAR . Toyota is by no means or ever was a North American Stock Car and never will be so it should not be racing on the circuits with the Ford, GM and Chrysler vehicles. It used to be NASCARs motto that WIN on Sunday Sell on Monday as you could go to a dealer and buy just about the exact cars that they raced in NASCAR that very Sunday. It know is nothing more than a outrageously expensive demolition derby that has become a sport just like pro football that is only geared to entertain the masses and has nothing to do with the original intent and founding principle of what Bill France SR envisioned and started back in 1952 in Daytona beach Fla. NASCAR is northing more than a joke for the unenlightened racing junkie to waste his hard earned money on to go watch a demolition derby that used to be a 5 buck entry fee on the weekends at your local tracks.
I myself much prefer the Tudor World Sports Car Championship because at least they differentiate between a truly prototype race car and the lower classed cars that are still basically a car that any one can go buy from a dealer at any given day and put racing tires and some very minimal tuning into it and go compete against the very cars being raced in that racing series. Plus they race in rain or shine unlike the scaredy cat racers in NASCAR that are afraid to put rain tires on and still go out and race as yes they would have to slow down some but racing is about enduring the elements for a required number of laps or time and it is NASCAR that is the only racing organization in the world that does not race in the rain as even World GP Motorcycle racing races in the rain and they are on two wheels so as I said earlier to me NASCAR is nothing more than a money hungry over egotistical and wimpy bunch of so called professional car drivers that are afraid to get their feet wet. even pro football which is another overrated American sport play in the rain and freezing cold. So bottom line in my eyes NASCAR is no longer what it started out to be as I watched more Daytona 500 and firecracker 400m races at the race track back in the late 60 and early 70 thru the 80s until they went from real door slammers to the sheetmetal tube chassised million dollar non STOCK cars that they are now.
BD
BD,
You are missing the point I was trying to make. I KNOW NASCAR isn’t about racing stock cars — despite the confusing name. I used it for the irony it conveys.
When somebody asks me a question, I try to answer with only as much as I know for sure. I try not to speculate, because that gets me into trouble. So I can’t answer your question about Vogel pellets in every FWB 300 or every Challenger, because I have only tried them in my guns.
If I tell you what I feel (which is pretty rare), I will try to mention that in the statement. Too many people speculate on things with just a single piece of information. I’m trying to not be like that.
Too many people read this blog and the other stuff I write and think that I am some sort of expert on all these subjects. It would be too easy to just let them think that, but boy would it ever be embarrassing when the truth came out. So I answer questions like yours in a way that lets you know my limitations.
B.B.
Bb
I did not miss your you were trying to make as I do understand as I do understand that one gun can shoot one pellet very well when an identical gun may not lie that pellet at all.
I was just asking for your view and opinion as to whether the Vogel pellets are considered a premium pellet or just a cheap fair shooting pellet . I know just because they are sold at the CMP range does not automatically make them a great pellet and was just curious if it was just your two guns that they did not do well in or if you had ant experience with them in others guns as well and if so did they do good with them or not.
I am sorry for the rant about NASCAR as it is just a very sore spot with me as to what NASCAR started out as and has now ended up as today which is a world apart from the original intent of the sport.
BD
Buldawg
The guy Scott Pilkington that BB is talking about is the one that owns Pilk guns that I got my FWB 300s parts from. He does a lot of Olympic air gun stuff.
I think I sent you a link to his website before. He’s a good guy to work with and gave me some good deals on parts.
Gunfun
I knew about Pilk guns as that’s where I found out about the trigger mod for my 853 and also how to make a tool to replace the hard plastic cup on my Crosman 1400s piston when I rebuilt it.
I was not aware that he made Vogel pellets though or that he was such a big supporter of the Olympic shooting teams and sold FWB parts till you had told me about you getting the trigger for your 300s from him.
BD
Buldawg
So you do like the Vogel pellets?
Gunfun
yes I do as they are cheap at 8.75 per 500 with tax included and my 853 and the lower powered gun of mine like the B3s and the grandsons 760 if he does not pump it over 8 pumps shoots the Vogels very good. We have not shot them at anything over my 40 ft/18 yard targets though so I don’t know how they do at longer ranges as I did not have the 35 yard range setup when we were shooting those pellets. I have not been up to the CMP range in awhile to shoot or buy any more of those pellets. I need to go buy some for plinking out back as they do shoot accurately out to 40 feet as long as your gun is not a higher powered gun. I did shoot a few in my firepower before we ran out of them and it shot them pretty good but they were not as accurate as the domed CPs are at the higher velocities.
BD
Buldawg
I think I will have to give the Vogels a try. They just may be what I need for the 30 yards and under pesting.
Guynfun
If you cant find them in your area just let me know as I can get them at the CMP range here every Tuesday and Thursdays for 8.75 per 500 and they come in a clear plastic square container so that they don’t rattle around in a metal container and bend the pellets.
I know they are good to 20 yards but cant say out to 30 yards as I have nit shot them at that range but I may just go buy a container to test out to the 30 and 35 yard ranges.as they are cheaper than even the wally world CPs since the 8.75 includes tax.
BD
BD,
Scott Pilkington was the American airgun repairman to the olympic team for many years. He still travels to some World Cup matches to help out.
He is also a world-reknowned engraver. You will meet him is you come to the Texas Airgun Show on Saturday, August 29.
B.B.
GF1,
That’s why I’m testing them.
B.B.
BB
Are you going to do a 25 yard test then?
GF1,
No.
B.B.
BB
Remember your the one that mentioned above that they scatter after 25 yards.
So let me rephrase that.
A test at 25 yards or more would be nice so we can indeed see if your statement is true.
And as you say I guess we can just get some our self’s and try.
But darn that’s why we read the blog so we can see how the expert does it. That’s who we’re suppose to trust. Right? 😉
GF1,
I “proved” this on “American Airgunner” years ago, but I guess you didn’t see that episode?
So for you and others who are new to airgunning, I will do a test for this effect. But not during this test.
B.B.
BB
No I didn’t see the earlier episodes and I honestly haven’t watched any if them to be truthful. Not that I don’t want to its just I usually don’t gave time. I bet in a weeks time I may only watch tv for probably no more than 4 hours.
And I’m think people would could like it the test.
I know this newbie would appreciate if you did the test.
😉
Gunfun1,
Really?,…Gunfun1 and “newbie” in the same post?
Compared to a “few”, yes.
Compared to “most”, no
Time for an “upgrade” in your self-reference. 😉
Chris, USA
Oh stop now.
Well ok a little upgrade then.
😉
Very impressive groups!!
BB,
Please do include the H&N top grade match pellets and the rws R10.
The fwb doesnt like the 4.49mm…..make sure its at least 4.50mm.
You know if youre on a streak, when after pellet no.4 the hole doesnt enlarge anymore.
5mm groups…. thats what youre looking for.
Dutchjozef,
When I get to the Olympic pellets my plan is to use those premium pellets that have done the best in each of the rifles I’m using. For that test, each rifle will have its own best pellet pitted against the Olympic pellet. It will be a real test.
At this point none of the pellets have head sizes marked on their boxes.
B.B.
BB,
I believe this is the site and the head size is listed as 2 numbers, perhaps head size/skirt size here it is; http://www.qiang-yuan.eu/index.php/en/product-details
Mike,
Thank you for that. I think what they are listing is the 2 different head sizes these pellets come in. But since that is not marked on the box, it isn’t helpful.
But thanks for finding this link.
B.B.
B.B.,
I have been looking at these pellets also since they just came out. I am very glad to see that they look as though they are going to be excellent performers and we need more of those. Last week I received a tin of the new JSB Match Wadcutter, Diabolo Pellets, .177 Cal, 7.33 Grains. I am very anxious to see how they perform but the weather and being sick has kept me off the range.
I want to point out that although I can not get benchrest match grade accuracy out of wadcutters at 25 meters. The typical groups with wadcutters out of my better rifles and pistols (used for Silhouette targets) are in the .75″ to 1.25″ range at 25 meters. Not bad, especially for Silhouette IMO.
G&G
How come no pictures of the pellets to click on when your on the Pyramyd AIR page? Only a picture of the containers they come in.
And does the match and Olympic pellets come packed in a foam type insert in the container that keeps the pellets from touching each other?
Hi GF1
I just checked the Qiang Yuan website and they are showing the rectangular boxes with foam inserts protecting the pellets. The round tin is bulk-filled.
Was hoping to find that they made domed pellets as well – seems they are just making the wadcutters.
There is probably not much point in testing wadcutters beyond 10 meters – they are designed for lower velocity guns ( < 700 fps) and are notoriously inaccurate (relative to their optimum range) at longer ranges.
Vana2
Thanks for looking that up. And glad they packaged them that way.
Did they show any pictures of the pellets? I would like to see if the designs are different between each grade of pellet.
And I actually have good luck with wadcutters out to 25 – 30 yards doing pest elimination in barns and surrounding barns. I used them in my 1377 that I put a Discovery steel breech and barrel on. And I had the Crosman 1399 stock on it and a Tasco red dot.
It worked out real nice because I could control the power by the different amount of pumps I used. If I needed more power outside or less power inside the barn. It worked good for mice,rats and problem birds at the different farmers places that I have been at. The wadcutters work real nice and give you that nice energy transfer to the pest and they usually don’t exit the pellet stays in and gives less chance of property damage.
So don’t under estimate a wadcutter.
GF1
The pictures in this blog are the best – they don’t show much on their website. Judging by the specs, they have one mold and sort to get the different grades of pellets.
I liked the Crosman .22cal flat-head pellets (Super-Pells??) in my Crosman 101 pumper so I tried expensive Olympic quality wadcutters in the FWB 124 with great results at close range and terrible results beyond 75 feet. Must have been a pellet the 124 didn’t like because the regular domed and pointed pellets were more accurate.
I have a stock of H&N wadcutters for the FWB 100 and the 603 so I will try them in my other rifles to see how they do.
Thanks for the heads-up!
Vana2
No problem and post your results with the wadcutters in your guns if you will. I would like to see the results.
Thanks.
Anyone have a high dollar 10 meter rifle they want to loan BB to test the premium versions?
I’m rather impressed with the group from the challenger. I’m assuming you don’t have access to an edge to see how well it does with these….
Tim,
BB’s fwb 300s is as accurate as any high dollar 10m rifle. Ive got one too. The high dollar rifles will have an advantage when you have to do 60 shots at an official match. Ergonomics will play a part at such a long shooting session.
Lokal matches are only 12 shots. The 300s is perfectly capable of scoring the maximum number of points.
I have a 300s and its a very accurate gun even at farther distances.
And I haven’t never shot my 300s at 10 meters. But I will have to say that with the group size I get at longer distances that it should be pretty darn good at the closer 10 meters. The groups usually improve the closer in you get.
B.B.
Looks like you were in the zone.
Glad to see the Chinese producing quality products.
Pete
Pete,
I was quite surprised.
B.B.
B.B.,
Wouldn’t the test be more meaningful if the pellet weights were identical, 8.2 grain to 8.2 grain rather than 8.2 grain to 7 grain?
FYI, I am planning to make a tool sometime in the near future to straighten bent pellet skirts. A few weeks ago, I went to my friends tool grinding shop and we put three different pellets made by three different manufacturers up on an optical comparator. I assumed that the included angle of the skirt would be the same, no, they were all different, make that tools, plural.
Can you tell me the nominal bore and groove diameter of .177 and .22 caliber air rifle barrels?
Bugbuster
BB,
There are many ways to parse this test. I have done it one way. If you like it, why not get some of these and test them in your rifles?
B.B.
BB,
I can’t tell you the .177 barrel size, but a .22 pellet barrel is nominally 0.218″.
B.B.
B.B.,
Thanks for the reply and info.
Bugbuster
Bugbuster,
I have used an “optical comparator” and they are a lot of fun. Overall length, head diameter, head angle, head shape, waist diameter, skirt diameter, skirt angle, weight and grooves in skirt would all play into a pellet’s design and performance.
I’m sure someone has made a (detailed) study of these features, or at least some of them, especially in the matter of competitive shooting.
“Softness”,…is of interest with regards to expansion,..as in hunting. A “Rockwell” test?
Although, lead would most likely fall into some other test, other than Rockwell.
Chris, USA
Softness and hardness makes a difference in the way the pellet seals in the bore with the skirt of the pellet and also how well the pellet head and skirt engage the rifling.
So more to hardness than just hunting results.
Gunfun1,
Yep,…that too. I knew that, but failed to mention it.
I’ve shot some real good groups lately,…for me. As it turns out, last time I checked, I believe 3 of 4 types have the largest head size available, which can help with rifleing imprint.
Chris, USA
I figured you knew about the hardness with the sealing and rifling.
And we got more cold weather for the weekend here in Illinois.
So hopefully it will start getting warmer soon. And then maybe you’ll get some warm weather so you can start clearing your outside shooting range.
You haven’t got to stretch your TX out yet have you?
Gunfun1,
No,…41′ is it. I am getting 10mm. groups on a regular basis. Good for me. I am afraid that groups will only open up from there. We shall see.
Chris, USA
I know I’m going back in time to answer here.
But I thought you said you where going to clear you a spot outside and shoot when warm weather comes.
Chris, USA,
I agree that all of these dimensions combined will have an effect on the pellets flight, accuracy, B.C. and FPE at distance. In my opinion, it would be difficult and very time consuming to measure the hardness of the individual pellet alloy due to it’s very construction. In the case of pellet alloys, it probably is a well guarded secret of the respective manufacturers.
I sounds to me that you are in search of a good hunting pellet, a soft one, that will expand upon impact. If it were me, I would chrony the pellets at the longest range that you wish to shoot with acceptable accuracy.Be very careful with your chrony, especially if the readout is built into the unit, (this is why I prefer a remote display)! Using a ballistic gelatin as a medium (the less dense the better), select the pellet by accuracy, highest terminal velocity at distance and the one that penetrates the gelatin the least amount.
Bugbuster
Bugbuster,
Thanks for that info. Still need to get a chrony. And yes, it would be time consuming and would be a massive amount of information to compile.
Did you mean to say “least” penetration,…or,…most? (at the end)
Chris, USA,
Yes, I meant least. This will be an indication that the pellet is “upsetting” (expanding) in the medium which will impart more of your remaining FPE, inside the target rather than beyond it, ideally, all of it.
This will be yet another time consuming test, unfortunately, but it would be interesting.
Bugbuster
Brinnel (Brinell?) Hardness test?
Hi B.B.,
Did you only fire one group with each pellet from each rifle or are these the best of multiple groupings?
Thank you for your time,
Geezer
Geezer,
I shot just one group with each. That is why I stressed a 10-shot group instead of just 5. Five shots are a best guess; 10 are very close to the truth.
B.B.
Thank you for your prompt reply! I read your blog every day but this is the first time I have posted a comment.
Thank you again,
Geezer
Geezer,
Well, don’t be a stranger. Now you know how to do it!
B.B.
It looks good so far. I still have some of the old “Industry Brand” pellets that came with some of the Chinese rifles I used to sell from Compassco. The best use for those is to melt them down and make fishing sinkers!
Mike
Mike,
I use Industry Brand pellets to function fire the airguns that pass through my office. I get about a year from one tin.
B,B.
Good call BB. They would work for that.
Mike
Tom/B.B,
Thanks for this report.
It’s good to see a new pellet manufacturer (of quality pellets, of course) appear in the marketplace. I know that the sheer number of pellet brands and “models” can be bewildering, but it is always much better to have more choice of ammo than less choice.
These look REALLY good to me, as this is the type/caliber of pellet I use the most, and they are in the weight and price range I prefer, too. I will be certain to purchase a tin of these the next time I place an order with Pyramyd AIR.
And this report is an excellent reminder that the country of manufacture does not automatically determine the quality of the product. When they choose to, the Chinese can make very high quality stuff. Yes, I buy American whenever there is a choice, but really, how many U.S. made target pellets are there to choose from?
Michael
The match and olympic grade of the Qiang Yuan come in boxes of 200. That’s a rather salty price ($13 and $17, respectively). But, I suppose, if they work out, and you’re shooting a match, they’re worth it. At that price point, shouldn’t they be compared to the upper tier of the H&N Finale Match grade pellets?
I’ve had good luck with the H&N Excite pellets (just saying).
Chasblock,
When I test the better pellets I will change the pellets they go up against.
B.B.
Bugbuster, It has already been tooled! It’s called “Pellet Tool tm” by lonewolfair.com! I think the U.S. Paraplegic Rifle Team is using them? A two peace tool that works very well for re-sizing, with four sizes! I have a couple! I think that Paul Capelo shot a short film on it at the Malvern, AR Air Show a few years ago? Semper fi!
J.LEE,
Thanks for the reply. How do you like the tool, does it improve accuracy? Do you use it for all of your pellets, or just deformed ones? I can make most of these tools myself since I have two engine lathes and fortunately, access to milling machines and tool grinders. As I see it, the problem is that the angle inside the skirt of the pellet doesn’t necessarily match the external angle, and some inside angles are compound. I believe that the tool will have to closely match the inside angles/angles of the skirt so as to not create an imbalance of the pellet upon firing. I watched a video on you tube once where some idiot put a ball bearing or .177 bb in the skirt and hit it with a HAMMER, totally unnecessary, when thumb pressure would have been sufficient.
For what it is worth, my father was a WW2 Navy veteran, myself active Army (1966-1970) AND my oldest son,a “Jar head”, go figure, Semper Fi.
KYPD
Bugbuster
BB, love the “not all.. accurate” blog, I fell into the delusion of pcp accuracy and pcp power in a springer and finally settled on 70 lbs of cocking force to get 22s going 900fps is the most the design will ever do , the 25 cal is still not finished but will not be slamming when it is, its getting LOWER powered and built specifically for accuracy for a sort of novelty target gun (the stocks done up so nice) and close small game work (tight quarters, no over penetration UK style). The 22 is built to boom and will do anything needed for game I’ll ever use an airgun for and it would be a waste of a nice hatsan 25 to try and push its envelope. I just finally finished moving, and on the seventh day he rested, but will soon be back on the ball keeping up with the blog and getting into projects, my new place has a great workshop room, finally a place for dad and his tools! Yay!
RDNA
I still have not gotten back to my firepower/Hatsan air spring conversion that you sent me and it now has took a different path as well since my acquisition of a B40 and RWS 48 to use for my FT spring guns.
I now plan to make the firepower into a 25 caliber power house by researching the size transfer port needed for a 25 caliber spring gun to be most efficient and charging the air spring to 130 bar since the emails you sent me of your conversations with Hatsan tech stated it would hold a maximum of 135 bar. My question and what research I have done on Crosman site shows that the Benjamin Trail XL 1500 is available in 177, 22 and 25 calibers and while they list different part number for the barrels for each caliber as would be expected, the compression chamber for all 3 calibers is the same part number so it is leading me to believe that the transfer port in the compression chamber is the same size for the 3 calibers. What I don’t know is if it is the same size port that is used in the other NP guns like the Titan in 22 cal or the Venom in 177 or 22. I am thinking it is slightly bigger in diameter in the XL 1500 series since they use different seals and pistons that are likely larger in diameter.
I was thinking of opening the transfer port in the firepower compression chamber up to around .180″ to .200″ or just barley smaller than the 25 caliber pellet is so as to move as much air behind the pellet as possible. But then I want to keep the venturi effect as great as possible also so I wish I knew where I could find out the size of the transfer port in a trail XL 1500 gun to be able to open the transfer port up to that diameter and then with the air spring charged to just about it max level it should shoot the 25 caliber pellets quite fast and at least rival a trail XL 1500 in 25 caliber.
BD
Hobbies were already proven to be inaccurate in this, Mac’s, former FWB 300. Hobbies never shot well out of any of my FWB 300’s.
Guess they’re a good choice if you want to handicap the test and give this new chinese training pellet PA has started carrying an edge from the get go.
I think a fair test would be to pit another cheap training pellet against this new chinese training pellet not the hobby pellet that we know doesn’t perform in this FWB 300. H & N sport wadcutters are $9.95 per 500 for example. Meisterkugeln tins of 500 sell for $9.99 in many of our big box stores around here.
kevin
Kevin,
I’m pitting Meisterkugeln against the next grade of these pellets That was always the plan.
B.B.
Kevin,
There’s no agenda when testing anything for the blog. This and all other tests are done to gain insight. No test is done to give any product an edge. That would be dishonest, would invalidate all findings, and negate everything Tom does and everything he believes in.
Edith
Edith,
After all of these years you must know that I am among your most loyal supporters.
It was not my intention to insinuate that pitting the hobby pellet against the Qiang Yuan Training pellet was a conscious effort to create a bias by Tom. I was merely trying to make a point and did a poor job of it.
I know that Tom goes out of his way to be honest in his testing.
kevin
B.B.,
Why wouldn’t you use the H & N Finale Match Rifle pellets against the Qiang Yuan Match pellets since they’re cheaper and have already proven themselves in your FWB 300?
I’m not trying to be a nit.
I’m anxious to see a new proven pellet that I could justify buying to add to my 10 meter pellet stash. For the cost of the Qiang Yuan Match Pellets I would expect them to outperform a pellet like the Finale Match not the Meisterkugeln for potential buyers to be interested in them.
kevin
Kevin,
Well, later in the test you will be able to see that.
B.B.
BB, while you are at testing pellets, let me ask you one thing that has come to my mind from time to time: do you have a system to record the pellet preferences for all of your rifles? I have about a dozen rifles and pistols, and I am not much of a “pellet collector”, so I can remember which pellet a particular gun likes. But even with a modest collection like this, it is very difficult to remember every detail of that gun’s performance without a system. I was thinking of attaching a tag to the trigger guard with the basics for that gun. And you, do you have any system that works for you?
Fred_BR,
When I want to find out which pellet does best I read about the gun in this blog. That is my system.
B.B.
Looks like a rock solid experimental method. Did you use a rear bag by the way? The results indicate a sea change in Chinese products from just trying to undersell competitor so beating them on quality.
On the subject of Mosin pellet rifles, Duskwight showed me a picture of a break-barrel Mosin spring rifle from Russia that looks very close to the real thing. I would rather have that or a CO2 version in the original dimensions rather than something cut down. B.B., how does your Mosin group with the scope mount. I recall you saying that you had achieved impressive accuracy with Mosins but I don’t know if it was this one.
Matt61
Matt,
No rear bag. My bag is so long the entire rifle is supported in it.
A Mosin springer would be very interesting, if it looks and feels realistic.
My Mosin groups no better with the scope that it does with open sights. About 3 inches at 50 yards so far.
B.B.
Hi…
You guys in the USA rarely use the Geco pellets (also made by RWS), right?
Here in Germany, it’s a very popular budget pellet.
I compared it to the similarly priced Umarex Mosquito and RWS Hobby and Club. I never got very good results witht the Umarex (but my Diana seems to like the pointed but otherwise similar Cobras). The Hobby and Club pellets were ok, but overall the Gecos seem to be the best.
I can get 11 tins of Gecos (5,500 rounds) for € 30 + shipping.
Somehow this report makes me want to see what I can do with the Gecos. I’m going to shoot 10 shots from my Diana 31P (scoped) and from the FWB300S that I just had apart for replacing the springs and seals. I’m still a beginner and I only have a 9m range. But let’s see how this turns out.
Kind regards,
Stephan
Stephan,
I have used Geco pellets in the past. I don’t know if I have any on hand now, or not. Love to see your groups.
B.B.
B.B. and all:
I have been shooting RWS Basic pellets in my 1377c with good results for me. I’ve looked at the RWS Hobby pellets on PA but have not shot them. Both are wadcutters with a 7.0 grain weight. What is the difference between the two pellets?
Thanks,
Jim
Jim,
I have both and the Hobbys are larger in the skirt. The Basics are good, but the Hobbys usually do better.
B.B.
B.B.:
Thank you for the information. When I run low on the Basic pellets, I’ll order the Hobby pellets. I’m not sure that it will make much difference for me since my arms have grown too short for me to reliably see the back sight.
Jim
Ok, here are my results:
I guess Tom or Edith will have to get this out of the spam folder because it contains links 🙂
Somehow shooting felt like a bit of a struggle today. My hand didn’t feel very “steady”.
Diana 31P (scoped)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3-WponaeJmkanZTTnNnWlBuYU0/view?usp=sharing
I don’t think the low shot was the rifle or pellet’s fault. I think I blew that one by twitching just before the shot broke.
The remaining nine made a 1,2cm / 0.47 ” group.
FWB300S (1973 model):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3-WponaeJmkVGdqbFVRMTJRd0k/view?usp=sharing
Somehow I also feel I can do better here. I notice my shooting performance is very dependent on my state of mind 🙂
Anyway, that’s a 1,4mm / 0.55 ” group.
So, in this test, the Diana actually did better than the FWB. But then the Diana is scoped and the FWB300S has the diopter sights on it.
Maybe I’ll try this again another day 🙂
Stephan,
Your Diana 31 did very good, indeed! But I would try both rifles again, because you are comparing 9 shots to 10.
B.B.
Cptclotz,
If you find the right pellet, the group of your fwb will shrik at least 50 percent. Mid 70s fwb like the rws r10 4.5000 mm.
If you feed the 300s the 4.49 mm……your group will grow.
Diopter isnt a handicap….its a Great aiming aid.
Sure, benchrested en scoped properly, you can really put every pellet in exactly the same hole
@Dutchjozef: I shot a smaller group with the FWB300 and JSB Exacts in 4.50. I think I had a better day and the pellets were also better. It was the best I’ve ever done so far.
I would post a picture but I don’t want to create more postings that go to the spam folder for today 🙂
I think at the moment I find using a scope easier than using the diopter sights, but it doesn’t necessarily mean I can shoot better groups with it.
@BB: Yup, my pictures went straight to the trash 🙂
@JimQwerty: Now that I read your post, I remember that I actually haven’t used the “Hobby” pellets yet. I think the ones I had were “Basic” and “Club”. I don’t really know why RWS has 4 kinds of pretty similar wadcutters. Maybe it’s so shooters can try which one works best in their guns, I don’t know.
My experience is that the Gecos are pretty good for my FWB300S, Diana 31, HW35, HW45 and Hämmerli S26.
The HW45 which has crazy power for a pistol is a little quieter and calmer with slightly heavier pellets. But that doesn’t mean I really shoot better groups. I’m still struggling a bit with the HW45 anyway 🙂
CptKlotz,
Your comment has now been approved.
We fight a daily battle with spam, receiving many hundreds a day . . . many with just 1 or 2 links in them. We’re at war with spammers.
Edith
Edith,
On behalf of all of us,…Thank You! Hundreds?…Really?,…It should not be so hard for something as “down home” and “down to earth” as this.
Yes,…I know it’s not as “basic” as all that. But thanks anyway for putting up the “good fight” everyday.
Chris,
Yes, hundreds. When we go to the blog first thing in the morning, we’ve seen as many as 230 spams in the spam folder. We can’t just delete all of them with one click because some legitimate comments will have been caught, too. So, all have to be looked at. Just as soon as you delete that big pile of spams, another 30-50 appear within seconds. Then, we get about 5-25/hour during the day. I estimate we get between 400-500 spams every 24 hrs, with most coming overnight.
Edith
And, as if that isn’t enough, I go thru all the legitimate comments submitted since I signed off the day before to find spams that made it thru the spam filter.
Edith
@BB: I will try again, but I think today this is as good as it gets for me 🙂
JSB Exacts seem to be a little better, but they’re more than twice the price. I think I also had a good day when I shot the great group with the JSBs 🙂
@Edith: I know the problem because I run a little web forum myself. I wonder if your math question safety has been broken by bots. It *might* be worth a try to ask something a little harder for machines to solve (“how many legs does a dog have?”, “how many letters does the word ‘airgun’ have?”. If the spam is posted by actual people, that won’t help at all, obviously.
CAPTCHAs can be a problem as well. The easier ones can be cracked by computers and some of the harder ones are really annoying. I’m 34, with good eyes and I find some of them hard to solve.
CptKlotz,
Thanks for the info. I’ll see if altering the CAPTCHA is doable for them.
Edith
BB and Airgunners
I’m always in favour of more choice for the sport of airgunning, and others. “Competition always improves the breed”. I believe this is a semi accurate quote attributed to Zora Arkus- Duntov, considered the father of the Corvette. He loved his creation, and if Chevrolet had let him, would have made the Stingray of the 60’s a real overall racing contender as was briefly proven during the 1963 Sebring Speed Week, with his Grand Sport program. China has shown it can not only compete in price, but also quality when it chooses to do so. There just seems to be more of a market for cheaply produced goods here in the west. We must be willing to pay more if we want quality too.
Ciao
Titus
Good old Zora.
Just think what Chevy could of been like with out him.
That’s a guy that I would of never got tired of hanging around with.
And I had a few of his Duntov cams in my old small block Chevy high rev’n sreamers.
Dang phone
High rev’n screamers.
You know what I really like about these pellets? They are a Chinese made product marketed under their own name as opposed to a Chinese made product being sold under the name of a European or American company. I like seeing them making the effort to establish their own reputation and improve their quality and design.
Nowhere,
I agree completely.
B.B.
Bugbuster, Pellet Tool is two tools! Very nice! No! Not all pellets! Just match pellets! But! U.S. Paraplegic team uses several! Regularly! Suggest you leave a memo at lonewolfair.com and my name J.LEE! You probably get all the information requested. I would like to Thank all of your family for your service to this country! Semper fi!
J.LEE,
Thanks for the info, I will check it out. I have had an idea about a pellet sizer/uniformer tool for months, possibly this tool is along the same lines as what I am thinking about. How long has it been available?
Bugbuster
I took a look at the “Pellet Tool tm” by lonewolfair.com that J.Lee mentioned.
It looks interesting but is out of stock. I would be most interested in the resizing die.
I use an audio adapter to round out damaged .177 skirts
A 1/4in to 1/8in audio jack adapter is easy to hold and a slight pressure and twist is all that it takes to remove the dings in the skirt.
Ron
Bugbuster, “Pellet Tool tm has been out for several years! I have a couple in the bag that they come in somewhere? Also the one I use when needed! They work well! lonewolfair.com gave me so many pellets to test and shoot that I got tired of the re-sizing! Late getting back! Semper fi!