by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Update on Edith
Edith was transferred back to the ICU because her oxygen level had dropped low. Her doctor ordered X-rays and a CAT scan to try to find out what is happening. The Guillain Barre Syndrome has been fully treated now, but here is the deal. The myelin sheaths on her nerves has been destroyed and hasn’t regenerated yet. With GBS it will do so, but it takes time. Imagine a complex electronic device that’s submerged in water all the time. Then the insulation get’s stripped off the wires. That’s what has happened to Edith.
They found large blood clots in her veins in the lungs, so she was fitted with a mask to force pure O2 into her lungs. They are worried that the clots may grow and obstruct her blood flow, so they put a clot filter in her inferior vena cava. And they are giving her blood thinners through the IV to keep the clots from growing. The next 48 hours are very critical to her.
Her brother is coming up from Houston to visit her this weekend, and of course I will see her every day. I will keep you informed.
This report covers:
- “My son is an excellent baseball pitcher…
- “I need a new airgun…
- Equipment doesn’t win
- Sometimes new is better
- Practice
- Scoring 10-meter pistol targets
- My score improved
- The leesson
I was going to publish a different report today, but Wednesday’s blog seemed to resonate with a lot of you. Something Duskwight said hit home the hardest for me. A scoped rifle doesn’t make you a sniper. Boy, is that profound! Let’s explore that topic this weekend.
“My son is an excellent baseball pitcher…
… and I think that makes him a good candidate to compete in air pistol at the Olympics.” Yes, someone actually once said that to Edith. It wasn’t that direct, of course, but it was that absurd. It’s similar to, “My four-year-old daughter listens to classical music all the time and I’m thinking of sending her to Juilliard to become a concert pianist.”
People love their kids and grandkids, but actual world-class talent isn’t that common. Yes, extreme application of study and practice can work wonders, but real talent is invaluable. Besides that — whoever said that man’s son wants to be an Olympic air pistol competitor? Maybe he wants to be a major-league baseball pitcher, instead. To which he might answer, “Oh, he’s too short for that. He’ll be good, but he’ll never make the majors. His arms are too short”
Well, how many Olympic air pistol champions do you think there are in the U.S.? A heck of a lot less than the number of major-league baseball pitchers! In fact, there are probably fewer Olympic-ranked air pistol shooters in the U.S. than there are pitchers on one major-league team.
“I need a new airgun…
… because my field target/10 meter match score hasn’t improved in the past year.” And guess what, folks? It isn’t going to improve until you lose 30 lbs., stop drinking caffenated coffee, start walking/running/swimming 7 days a week and generally take better care of yourself. If you compete in air pistol there are also upper body exercises you need to start and stick with.
“What? I said I want to compete in field target — not run a marathon!”
Take a look at the winners of field target matches — not the local matches, but those who win the national and world matches. Do they look like they are out of shape? This is the reason shooters are also called athletes. Not that they can run 100 meters in 10 seconds, but they do take care of themselves –realizing that their bodies are an important part of the shooting equation.
Just as a new car will not make you a better driver, so a new airgun will not make you a better shooter. The exception to this is the guy who has been shooting his father’s Diana 35 in local 10-meter matches for the past 20 years and suddenly he comes into a Crosman Challenger PCP. Yes, in his case, the much better equipment will add points to the score. And the 10-meter pistol competitor who upgrades from a Daisy Avanti 747 to an FWB P44 will gain some points, as well. But those gains will stop unless the shooter practices more with the new equipment.
I have seen shooters in the field target game buy one rifle after another — searching desperately for the one that made them as good a shooter as the person shown in the ads for the same gun. I’m talking about rifles that cost $2,000 to 4,000. I believe our reader, Bulldawg, is currently engaged in an experiment to “educate” some folks who are of that opinion. I refer to his work to get his Benjamin Marauder to shoot as accurately as some much more expensive European PCPs.
I have seen the same thing with scopes. In fact, I once saw a scope ring set that cost $500 (in the 1990s, no less!) that was purchased to improve the shooter’s score.
Equipment doesn’t win
The fact is — equipment doesn’t win. People win. That is not to ignore nor downplay genius, when it is encountered. If there is a master violinist, someone gets him an instrument worthy of his talent. But for the rest of us fiddle players, almost any old thing with strings will do. The neat thing about airguns is that for only about $3,000 a person can own a target rifle capable of winning the Olympics. And if you’re on a budget, $600 will get you an FWB 300S that is almost as good and nearly as accurate. You can’t do that in most other sports, and you certainly can’t do it with violins! To paraphrase reader Duskwight, owning a Stradivarius doesn’t make you Yahudi Menuhin.
Sometimes new is better
We treasure vintage airguns because of the craftsmanship that went into their construction. And (Bulldawg and others, please forgive me) we treasure vintage Detroit Iron for the same reasons. But, when was the last time you had to set the points on your wife’s Toyota minivan? Never, right? Adjusting engine valves is becoming a lost art, where I used to carry a feeler gauge, wrench and screwdriver in the glovebox of my VW Beetle. I could tell you the timing in my sleep, and I had a timing light hanging in my garage like the rest of you dinosaurs. I haven’t timed an engine in the last 20 years — because I haven’t had to! My car engines just run as long as I pus gas in the tank and change the oil.
Before you explode, I acknowledge you gearheads who still live in that world. That is your fascination and I appreciate it. I also love the world of vintage airguns, so in a sense, we are connected in that way. You have read about me oiling the piston seal in my vintage Weihrauch HW35. But I haven’t oiled the piston in my Beeman R1 in the last 10,000 shots! I haven’t had to, because the use of synthetic seals and high-tech lubricants makes it unimportant. They just last and keep on doing their thing.
The new spring guns have good power without the horrible cocking effort they needed just 15 years ago. The new gas springs are actually easy to cock and get reasonable power. Manufacturers are using buttoned pistons (pistons with bearings around their sides to stop vibration), better mainsprings, better triggers and better barrels than we were seeing just 20 years ago. Yes there is still a lot of room for improvement, but today’s makers know that a Rekord trigger is the standard and they are taking their corporate heads out of the sand. In short, the technology is improving.
Practice
I’m sure you have heard the one about the tourist in New York who asked the local how to get to Carnegie Hall and the answer was , “Practice, man. Practice.” Funny, but also true.
When I competed in 10-meter pistol I tried to practice an hour each day. I thought I was really going all out, until I read that most Olympic champions dry-fire for 4 hours a day and shoot a full match (60 shots for a man) on top of that. And that is over and above the other 4 hours they spend on physical conditioning. What I had been doing was the airgun equivalent of practicing my piano for 45 minutes while I watched the clock!
I was writing The Airgun Letter at the time and thought I would see if this dry-fire thing really worked. So I upped my practice time to 2 hours of dry-fire and then shot a full match every day, 5 days a week. The first thing I noticed is that I really blew through those expensive target pellets fast! A tin was gone in a little more than a week. I had been buying pellets one tin at a time, but I upped it to 10 tins to cover the use.
The next thing I noticed was I could see the front sight much more clearly than ever before and because my pistol did not recoil, I knew where every pellet went. I started scoring myself after each shot from the image of the front sight when the shot broke. My scores that I was calling were uncannily correct, too. I could call a 9 or an 8 and I knew when I shot a 10 every time.
The inner circle is a perfect 10 that’s used for breaking ties. The next circle (arrow) is the actual 10-ring. The circle to the right of the 8 is the 9-ring, and the space between that circle and the smaller circle where the pellet rests is the scoring zone for a 9. It is unmarked to keep the target from becoming too cluttered.
Scoring 10-meter pistol targets
The smallest ring in the center of the target is a perfect 10. On other targets it would be called the X-ring and would be used to break ties. The larger ring around it is the actual 10-ring used for scoring a match. After the match finishes, the top shooters fire 10 more shots that score fractionally. For only this final 10 shots the smallest inner circle is rated a 10.9 (if your pellet is perfectly inside) and a pellet that just breaks through the second scoring ring out scores a 10.1. This is how they differentiate shooters who never miss the 10-ring.
My score improved
I was telling you that I increased my practice time with the pistol and in the very next regional match I added 23 points to my score! I advanced in the NRA national standings. That proved to me that practice and not equipment is what wins matches.
All this time I was shooting a $400 Czech target pistol called the Chameleon that is not even close to the quality level of a top 10-meter pistol, yet it is capable of shooting a near-perfect score. As I continued the practice I started to see the next scoring plateau, which would advance me another 15 points, taking me to the national champion level. I actually shot that well in practice, but my match scores were always 10–12 points less, which is pretty normal.
It was at this point in my competitive career that I started to feel the real need for a better air pistol. But certain things happened that caused me to stop competing, so I never rose to that level. I saw it, but never achieved it. But the additional practice was definitely what made the difference — expecially the dry-firing.
The lesson
Today’s lesson is simple. Buy that better airgun if you want it, but don’t do it thinking that it will make you shoot better. Only practice can do that. Of course when you do practice, do so with the best pellets you can find and learn how your gun wants to be treated.
Continuing to pray for Edith’s health. I hope that the treatment works and she gets to breath well on her own.
Yes, our prayers are with you and her.
I used to shoot IPSC and 3 gun matches in the 80’s (long before it was called 3 gun).
At one of the Bianchi cup matches, I heard one of the top shooters say while giving an interview: “it’s not the guy that spent $2000 on a new gun that worries me”, (1980’s money) “it’s the guy that spent $2000 in powder, primers, and projectiles that I look out for…”
That man knows his stuff!
Bruce Lee’s approach: “Fear not the man who learned 10000 moves, fear the man who studied one move for 10000 times” 😉
B.B./Tom,
My thoughts and hopes and prayers are with you and Edith. I find myself thinking of the two of you during much of my day. Try to take comfort and resolve from knowing that an awful lot of folks out here care about you and Edith and are pulling for you.
Michael
B.B.,
Regarding what it takes to become really good at something, and of course natural talent is also necessary to be at or near the absolute top of anything, most of it really does come down to extreme dedication (i.e. practice) over a long period of time.
The examples that come to my mind are several. Itzhak Perlmann, the violinist, said on the Tonight Show once that the typical professional classical musician, from a ninth-chair oboist in the Peoria Orchestra to a world-class soloist violinist or pianist, practice amounts to six to nine hours a day, five or six days a week. Bruce, now Caitlyn, Jenner said in an interview that Olympic-class decathletes train for nine hours a day, six days a week for years before they compete at that level. Tennis players train much more scientifically these days, but Bjorn Borg at his peak kept things simple. Between tournaments he would run (run, not jog) six miles, take a shower and lie down for an hour, and then he would play tennis with no rest breaks, against multiple hitting partners, for six straight hours. He did this six days a week. Recently in an interview he said that not once did he ever feel tired in a match.
Practice, practice, practice.
Michael
Poor Caitlyn practiced hers right off!
🙂
Reb, Reb, Reb
🙂
I see you threw one in there for Lance too!
Or something. 🙂
Didn’t somebody write a book that said it took 10,000 hours to become proficient(whatever that means) at something?
Thoughts and prayer are with you, extra for the next two days…
-Y
Yogi
I did read that book some years back and I can’t recall the name of it. And if I’m thinking of the right book it was all about how you perceive something. They had things catorgrized and what it took to have a win, win situation.
I hope somebody here can give the name of that book. And my old boss that taught me many things about the machine shop world was the one that gave me that book.
He was a very wise older man and I always enjoyed talking to him.
It was called Outliers, I believe. Quite eye-opening!
it discussed how the month you were born could affect your hockey game, and why being among the smartest men in the world didn’t mean success, and how the early computer geniuses AND the Beatles achieved success through simple exposure to those ten thousand hours…
Bejezus
What you described is exactly what the book is about.
I wish I still had that book. I would definitely read it again to refresh the memory.
The book was Outliers: The Story of Success by Malcolm Gladwell published in 2008. I believe that it is still available through Amazon.
It was an interesting book. However, if I remember correctly there were several papers disputing the claims in the book.
I believe that the point is that it takes much pratice and continued practice go get good at something and to stay proficient at it. I try to shoot every evening after work but for the last several weeks I was working out of town and did not have a chance to practice. When I had a chance to shoot last weekend, my groups started out horrible. After about an hour my groups settled down and I shot one of the best 35 groups ever (for me).
Jim
Yes after you done something for a given amount of times it is suppose to give you more exsperiances than somebody just starting.
And it was about the mindset you have when you encounter a situation.
I thought it was a very good book. I’m usually not a book reader but like I said I would read it again.
Our Prayers and thoughts are with you and Edith. As a newbie airgunner and a old guy to boot, I will just buy a new gun when I can afford it and really want it. No particular reason. I am getting quite a collection of them, most of them recommended by you BB . I enjoy the historical significance of some of the replicas. Other’s , I just enjoy the actions. All in all a very cool hobby.
Thank you
Harvey
BB
I’m glad you gave the update about Edith.
So nerves can rejuvenate? I didn’t know that. And I guess I really should read more about the desease. Have they said how or where the desease comes from. Can you do anything to prevent it?
Probably to many questions and im sure its hard to talk about. But would like to know how or what makes the desease come about.
And many prayers are being said for you both and your family and friends. Hang in there.
It will be better. I know it will.
Yes, neural regeneration is possible! The outer layer is where impulses are received and translated. The thought of someone’s whole body short-circuiting is absolutely horrifying to me.
Reb
I do not like thinking about that either.
I plan to be at the Texas show this Fall and my favorite thing is gonna be shaking her hand.
Reb,
I will tell her you said that. That will encourage her.
B.B.
GF1,
I didn’t say her nerves had to regenerate. It is the myelin sheath of fatty material around the nerve endings that the GBS has strioped away — the same as with MS. The difference is with GBS, that sheath will regenerate, where with MS, once it is gone it never comes back.
B.B.
BB
Now I understand. I never have really researched what ms was all about either. Thanks
Edith and Tom:
Our thoughts and prayers are with you and Edith.
My wife has had MS for over 20 years. There are three types of MS. In the progressive form, the myelin sheath does not regenerate creating permenant problems. In the relapsing/remitting form, the myelin will heal but imperfectly so residual problems exist but not to the same extent as the progressive form. The final type is benign where a person will have one or two attacks but not suffer long-term problems.
Jim
Jim,
Thank you for that explanation. As you can tell, I don’t know much about this. But I have gained an appreciation of how horrible MS can be.
B.B.
Hello B.B. and Edith,
From my readings, nutritional support for myelin care includes folic acid, b12 (use cherry sublingual methylcobalamin tablets) and omega 3 fatty acids from fish oil.
Wishing you both strength through this difficult time.
Thanks for that information!
That’s the kind ofinformation I was wanting to share but couldn’t find,I’m gonna get started ASAP
BB
I hope for some good news in the next few days with Edith improving some every day and we will keep you both in our prayers. My wife has fibermyaliga which to some extent is the same degrading of the myelin coating of the nerves and muscles just not to the extent of Ediths and every day is different with her and the pain she endures from it. I hope Ediths is regenerated quickly so as to relieve her pain soon.
You are correct to my quest/experiment to show that a roughly 1100 dollar gun can and will out perform that 2500 Dollar custom Rapid that was bought by one of our chub members and built for him.
My 25 caliber Brod for bottled Mrod is being built exactly like yours in the review with all the same parts from RAI with the exception that I am using Dave’s modular stock like yours that is supplied by Wicked Air Rifles in their 550 cc bottle kit for the Mrod with their WAR valve and a Huma regulator. I will post pictures when it is fully assembled. I will be very similar to yours only the air cylinder will be replaced by a bottle on a drop down block that uses the gauge and foster fill fitting in the drop down block with a shorter air cylinder tube of about 12 inches in length with their proprietary WAR valve and the regulator in front of the valve. I have discussed with Travis the limits that I can expect and tune for with his kit and if I want all out power it is capable of shooting the Eunjin 45 grain pellets at 1050 fps for 100 fpe. I am more interested in shooting either the 25 grain JSB heavies at 950 fps for hopefully 60 shots per fill or I have some of the new 34 grain JSBs that I may tune to shoot at the same 950 fps for 40 plus shots and a power level of right at 70 fpe. That Rapid is shooting the 25 grain JSBs at 930 fps for a power level of 49 fpe so all I am really after is to out do that and ring our 100 yard spinner just as easy as his Rapid does and it only swings it back and forth not fully around so I would really like to tune to shoot the 34 grain KSBs at the 950 fps for right at 69 fpe and not only hit the spinner repeatedly but spin it completely around several times to boot to really make him upset that my 1100 dollar home built gun shoots better than hie custom bought gun does.
BB
You do not offend me with your comments on vintage Detroit iron as you say they have their disadvantages as well as their advantages. my stuck in the 70 attitude is not so much of the mindset that those are the only well built car ever made as I to just bought a new ford escape so I can just take it to a dealer and say fix it when it breaks rather than me having to do it as my health is limiting what I can do anymore on my car and bikes even with my 45 years of tools at my disposal. My loyalty to the old iron is more to do with govt emission regulations and the ability to build the car or bike with a motor that is not subject to having to meet any emission requirements since none were in effect at the time of manufacture and therefore there are none I have to be concerned about when building the vehicles. My 77 KZ 1000 street legal 9.5 second quarter mile drag bike has a full race motor in it that if it was in a new bike would be illegal and land me in jail at the first stop by a law enforcement officer, but since the first emissions of any sort for motorcycles were in 1979 and consisted of plumbing the crankcase vapor into the air cleaner to be reburnt in the motor when running my KZ has no emissions it is required to meet and therefore my full race motor is perfectly legal for street use as well as the near full race motor in my 76 Shovelhead FXE superglide Harley that outrun Evo and Twin Cams all day long much to their anger and bewilderment.
my next project is a 1978 Datsun pickup that will be having a small block chevy 400 4 bolt built along with a Borg Warner super T-10 4 speed trans and an 8.8 inch ford rear end with disc brakes. it is a 2200 pound truck that will have a mild 450 plus HP motor in it with the 4 speed and posi rear end and air ride suspension at all 4 corners so it will not only go fast in a straight line but do corners equally well.
Oh the fun of being the underdog and seeing jaws hit the ground when you out do all the big money buyers with homebrewed toys.
BD
My hotrod has wings–a plans built (no kit) 190 mph two seat, all metal polished angel that seats two, is fully aerobatic, and has my blood, sweat, and tears in every weld and each one of those 13,000 rivets I drilled, countersunk, and drove!
It’s nice to get away from it and plink. I keep 3-5 air guns in the hangar for when problems need a little cogitation time. Plinking really refreshes the soul!
And B.B. And Edith….this would be a great time to re-run a week or two of your favorite blogs. While we loves us some fresh BB, BB re-warmed is good eats too! Take care of your wife, not us, and we will be here when she gets better!
That sounds like fun!
But the dedication to direction is worthy of commendation!
Happy skies!
BD,
I remember laying under a 1978 VW bus, doing a simple oil change when a gas line popped and dumped gas in my eyes. After that I told Edith my days of fixing cars were over. I was only about 45 at the time, but I felt my time could be better spent. But I do understand and appreciate the attraction.
B.B.
I was about the same age as you when I realized it was time to stop doing my own car work. Instead, I could simply take my cars to a dealership, throw some money at them and they would fix them. I realized this one time in San Francisco. I too had a VW bus. When I replaced the brake linings, the vehicle stopped stopping. And when I tuned it, it stopped running. Things had definitely changed from when I was a teen: for one thing, I had more $$ to spend and for another, crawling around under a vehicle wasn’t the fun it had been when I was young and foolish.
I’ve had gas dumped on my face/chest. It’s kind of hard to breath fresh air huh. While I panicked some I immediately pulled of my hat, jacket, shirt and went right to the tub to rinse and wash the rest off with hot a#$ water and soap.
I had to throw out the rest of my clothes and smelled/smelled like gasoline for a week.
BB
I have worked on VWs as a very young and green mechanic and can say this of all the cars ever made the VW although about the easiest to work on was my most dreaded and unfavorite car to ever work on as they leaked like old Harleys and to do any real work on the engine required at minimum of an hour just to remove the 20 pounds of sheet metal to find the engine to work on it.
so I fully understand your realization that your time could be much better spent. They can be made to get right down the road but it was way more work and money for the little gains you could achieve from them.
To all I had surgery on my right eye yesterday to have floaters removed from my retina that had become a result of cataract surgery in 08 and the surgery went very well with no problems or issues and all the floaters were removed so I have one weeks recoup time and should be back to 20/20 vision in both eyes.
The floaters ( I call them cobwebs because that’s what they look like ) were at first only in my peripheral vision but have moved into my direct line of sight and were most bothersome when sighting thru a scope as it gave the appearance of bugs crawling down either side of the targets I was shooting at and also made driving at night very tedious as the oncoming head lights would be all but blinding and the glare off the floater made it difficult to see the lines on the road. All is well and they are gone so I am looking forward to my renewed vision out of my right eye and will not have to shoot at bugs anymore when FT match shooting, LOL
Glad you found something else to better use your time for or we would not be here right now LOL.
BD
BD,
I know what floaters are. Most guys my age have a few, but when they get to be more they really mess up your vision. I’m glad your operation when well. Soon you’ll be behind the trigger, where you belong.
B.B.
BB
That’s why I had them removed as they were not content to stay in my peripheral vision anymore and had began migrating to my line of sight and were affect my aiming with the bugs on the target issue so the had to go.
it should be all good in a week as it is much better already just still somewhat light sensitive from the dilation and I was awake the whole time it was being done and looked like a mini vacuum cleaner in my eye sucking up all the little black particles floating around inside my eye.
BD
Ok now about this thing called practice.
I raced dirt bikes. I raced cars at the dragstrip. I raced RC planes. I played a clarinet in school. I learned how to be a machinist.
Practice, practice, practice.
Just the other day somebody told me boy you sure do shoot alot. I honestly say that I shot on the weekdays at least 3 hours a day. But has been a little tuff lately to make the time. And on the weekend I can spend the whole day shooting. Of course I take breaks to eat or do other activities. But usually I have at least 5 guns setting out in my shooting room. Basically the breezway that attaches the garage to the house. It’s actually kind of a sun room. But it has about 8 windows that are 2′ wide by 4′ tall that open up. And they are about 2′ feet off the ground. So really a nice place to shoot outside from. And you notice I said at least 5 guns. Well I can tell you a little different story about how each one acts. And one of the guns that’s a challenge is my 22. rimfire rifle. I shoot 4 different rounds through that gun when its included in the 5 gun roundup. 710 velocity 20 grn bullet, 710 velocity 40 grn bullet, 950 velocity 60 grn bullet then last but not least the trusty old 1200 velocity 40 grn bullet. Talk about one gun having many personalities to learn how to shoot and do the holds correct without rezeroing the scope for each round. My dad would load his on centerfire rounds and he could pull one bullet from let’s say 3 different boxes of his load and tell you where it was going to hit at a given distance with out putting hold over or under or clicks in the scope.
And as far as what kind of money I had in my things I was usually always the underdog. But what I always did is found out what worked best for what I had in front of me. And I was always looking for or I should say experimenting with different things to try to improve myself. And there is something that does come out of that. You learn real quick what is no good and then your happy as can be if you did find an improvement. And it could be as simple as moving the gun forward or backwards on your rest. How you position your arms. I was just talking about that yesterday. Even when I bench rest the stock of the gun is rested and my look eft and right arms are locked into my ribcage and the rest is at the proper height so I’m sitting straight up. I even do that when I shoot from shooting sticks now. The Y in the sticks just rwsts the gun. I control the gun with my body even sitting down. But the question about breathing and being winded would not be good for controling the gun movement. And then comes the practicing part of how to breath. I know I’m getting long on my post but its just all things that need to be practiced to get better. And when you practice taking a breath and slowly let it out as your comming down on your target you’ll find how it slows your heart beat and you really become steady and you can intake more air and last longer letting it out. Heck I have been breathing smoke and oil mist for over 30 years and I can’t do my breaths ad good as I use to when I was younger shooting. But I do think the breathing exercises or practice have helped my over all breathing and I can do that to that when needed to slow the heart rate down.
I probably rambled on more than I should. And I do have other things to say about equipment with air guns but I will wait because this only day one for the weekend blog. I think some interesting things will come up this weekend from today’s blog. But got my eyes on this one that’s for sure.
Ready, Set, Go. Ha-ha here we go. 🙂
And sorry it was just one of those nights at work. Trying to unwind if you will.
Jeepers, B.B. All my good will and best wishes for Edith.
I can remember being much impressed, as a teenager, with Jeff Cooper’s insistence on the same topic. He used to joke about industry marketing campaigns that would say (working from memory here), “Out where ranges are long you need [insert brand name here] performance.” Cooper’s response was “Balderdash. Out where ranges are long you need to know how to shoot.”
We will be praying for you and Edith.
Amen!
Edith is a very special person. We need her around to keep the “Boss” in line.
Hope she is out of the woods very soon.
Pete
Gunfun1
You brought up more excellent points that I do practice as well but I guess it has become habit for me so that I find myself not thinking about what I actually do and therefore forget to put it in words. It has most definitely helped improve my FT scores by working on controlling my breathing which in turn help lower my heart rate also and that is my biggest challenge with having COPD and heart issues so to have finally found the inner strength to control those two thing has improved my shooting ten fold.
I am up and ready to leave for the tri top Birmingham to get the floaters removed from my right eye so that hopefully my eyesight and ability to sight with the scope without bugs crawling down the sides of the target will help me improve more as well.
I will text you later this morning to give you the results of the surgery on my eye.
BD
Buldawg
I got your text and responded.
Glad all went well. See I said a prayer for you too. 🙂
GGunfun1
I know you have said that you are very paranoid of any type of eye surgery as you can see now and would not be able to deal with out have your sight and I too have not taken this surgery lightly and found a surgeon with a exemplary reputation and track record so I was at as much ease and confidence as possible when dealing with sight issues.
Thanks for your prayers as they were heard and the surgery was a outstanding success as my vision is already 75 % better than before and no floaters can be seen anywhere in my eye by the doctor or myself so a weeks time to fully heal an return to normal and I should be as good as a 60 year old eye can be and as said above I do not have to shoot the bugs on the field target anymore.
BD
Gunfun1
Well I guess my eye is oit back to 100 % yet as I missed the two Gs in your name but then that’s probably my mind not being here rather than eye sight and I have not found a doc that can get it to stay with me all the time yet. LOL
BD
Buldawg
I’m glad it all went well. And yes I am paranoid about eye surgery.
That’s one issue with being a machinist. The hot metal chips flying. I always waer my safry glasses at work. Even with safty glasses on is not a 100% gaurentee they will keep the metal chips out.
I see the young new guys come to work at the shop and running and working on the production machines with no safety glasses on.
I tell them all the time to put them on. Some don’t like it some put their glasses on. I tell them its their eye sight do what you want. But when you don’t have your eyes there’s no turning back and life won’t be the same.
I even wear safty glasses when I work on air guns. To many things that can come loose unexpectedly and go flying.
So yep anything to do with me loosing my eye sight bothers me.
Gunfun1
I agree with you 100% on safety glasses and have had rusty metal in my eye three times when starting work as a young mechanic and was not wearing safety glasses as I had to wear prescription glasses and thought those would do as good and found out otherwise when I had to have the rusty exhaust pipe metal pulled out of my right eye .
I to know wear safety glasses when ever I am working on anything as I value my eyesight as much as you and when at Harley it was a performance issue if caught without safety glasses on when working on anything and the only time you were not required to wear them was when you were at your PC doing paper work PERIOD.
I am surprised that the size company you work at and the fact that it is a machine environment it is not mandatory for them to be worn as it is an OSHA regulation for most all manufacturing companies that they be worn at all times in the work areas.
Those young worker will only learn the hard way and just hope it is not by loss of sight.
I was most definitely leery of having eye surgery and have been thinking and researching about it for months now and found a doc with very high reports and reputation before finally going for it so it was not just a last minute thing although to get it covered by insurance it seemed to be a rush job buy that was all that was rushed and not any part of the finding the right doc or risks involved as this doc would have not done the surgery if he did not think he could give a great deal of improvement and had high confidence in favorable results so he is by no means a knife happy eye doc and is why I was as comfortable as I was letting him do the surgery.
it all came out good so it is just a week or so and it will be behind me .
BD
Buldawg
You know how that goes. It is mandatory to wear the safety glasses. But you know what happens when the boss’s are gone.
How’s that saying go. When the cats away the mice will play.
Gunfun1
Yea they do at that but when it your sight that is involved it is not worth the risk at least for me it was not as I learned at 21 or so just what rusted metal feels like in my eye and wanted no part of it so I always wore mine from then on and still do today.
BD
Buldawg
Same here. I got metal in my eye when I first started out at the machine shop. And I had my safety glasses on.
They tryed getting it out with a magnet first but they couldn’t. So then came a pick. They were able to dig it out then use the magnet.
No fun is all I can say. And that’s the least of your worries if you loose your eye sight.
Gunfun1
I went to an old eye doc that tried the magnet and it was not strong enough to pull the metal out so he clamped my head in a fixture that kept me from moving my head and used a very fine pointed pair of tweezers to grab the metal and pull it out and it made a pop sound when it came out and my eye was rust colored brown for a couple weeks after each time i got metal in my eye so I learned real fast that prescription glasses do not serve as safety glasses and never though twice again about wearing them when working either at home or when at work.
BD
Buldawg
Yep you got it.
Hope it works out well for you!
Reb
It went very well and got all the floaters so back to 20/20 for now but they can return in time just hopefully not for 6 to 8 years like it took before .
BD
B.B.,
Prayers and best of wishes. One thing gets better and something else gets worse. Good thing is the X-rays and CAT scan found stuff, that now identified, can now be treated. Better than not knowing it’s there.
You and Edith will be in my thoughts and prayers all weekend.
Nice article,….a bit of a “reality check” if you will. (pun intended) The throngs of fans, huge tropheys, free gear and tons of money will have to be relegated to my dreams. (pun intended,…again) 😉
Chris
Edith, your Kiwi fans are here and thinking of you. Rick.
Add my prayers and thoughts for Edith.
My sons are very involved in archery. A couple of years back they took a weekend archery course from a past Olympic medal winner.
She said (as you mention) equipment pales in comparison to practice as far as improvement was concerned.
I don’t know if this was a figure she pulled out of her hat (I think it wasn’t), but she said if there was something that you decided needed improvement…where you tucked the arrow on your cheek, how you held the sight pattern, whatever…that it took about 10,000 times doing it the ‘new way’ before it truly became second nature.
She said that what set the champions apart from the very good was literally thousands of hours worth of practice.
I know she can’t hear me, but – Edith, keep up! I know you’ve got spirit and strength and whatever it takes to win. Cheat, play dirty, use loopholes in the rules and hit below the belt, the only thing that counts is to win. Everybody here is hoping and praying for you, waiting to greet you when you get back to us!
B.B.
Yes, that’s the only way. Practice, practice and practice. Almost every airgun shoots better than the man or woman using it.
Here pellet tins in pack of 10 are called “sausage”, 5000 shots, so the usual slang term is “Me and my gun ate 3 sausages last year” and experience is measured like “a sausage back I shot worse”. From what I learned from my own experience, it is close to a sausage to get used to an airgun and get full understanding of it. And to keep skills with the airgun in question on reasonable level requires 2 ssg/yr. That’s why I always keep no more than 3 “work guns” at the time and the rest are just my collection.
And hey, being a gearhead is not this bad! There are a lot of fellow humans who wear pants but don’t know how to unscrew a bolt and get their gun to the right condition, I don’t even mention improve it. And that is despite the fact that simply lurking in different forums can empower anyone with enough knowledge to build or repair anything. And so they bring their guns and their money to those who know. Including yours truly 😉 Tinkering with all that gives a good food for thought and a lot of examples that you learn and think throug with your own hands.
New is not better anymore I believe. Well, at least for the major part of the market. What I see now in airguns is the degradation. Lots of plastic instead of good old metal, that stupid fps race (with some gold-plated pieces of unknown alloy), moving production to China etc. etc. Of course, there are some good things on the upper end of the price scale, but what worries me is that lower end becomes worse and worse, disabling newbies of getting positive first experience and tinkerers from unearthing guns’ potential.
duskwight
BB,
I am praying for Edith and for you also. If I can help give me a call or e-mail me.
David Enoch
David,
Thank you. Right now I have everything I need. I’m busy, but keeping up.
I want to get Edith thinking about the Texas airgun show, because I know she wants to attend.
B.B.
Please tell Edith that we will see her there. We already have our reservations and my vaction time approved.
Jim
It sounds like the Doc’s are doing everything they can for Edith. A least that’s what my limited medical knowledge tells me. Hang in there! I can remember timing an engine by ear because I didn’t have a light. Yes, those days are gone. Equipment can help. With Trap Shooting, you will shoot better with a Trap Gun than with a field gun. But you won’t be winning anything without a lot of CORRECT practice. Every gun has a certain number of misses in it. You have to shoot it until you get all the misses out! 🙂
Mike
BI-Are you sure it is not, a gun has only so many “hits” in it. Do not waste them! LOL
-Y
BB,
I don’t understand half of the medical stuff, but I hope everything goes well for Edith.
As for the gearhead thing:
Duskwight’s line resonated with me as well because I have been telling people a very similar thing. I play Badminton and I know some people who won’t bother to learn even the simplest things about tactics or technique yet they keep on buying “better” racquets.
Sometimes, I tell them “a top racquet doesn’t make you a top player”. I’ve noticed the same with cyclists, audio enthusiasts, musicians, etc.
My comment on typical Internet recommendations was inspired by a discussion that I read elsewhere. Somebody was asking whether an HW35 would be a good beginner rifle.
I think it’s a perfect beginner rifle. It’s high-quality, will last forever and it will probably “grow” with the increasing abilities of the shooter. Many others are, of course, just as good.
Inevitably, not everybody seemed to think so… Some people thought it was too heavy and a Diana 21 or HW30 would be better. Others felt it wasn’t good enough and the guy should get an HW97 or a Walther LGU instead. Some people thought diopter sights were good, others didn’t, some liked scopes etc. etc.
So instead of telling the guy to simply try the thing and if he liked it, to stop worrying and start shooting, they discussed what *they* liked. I’m fairly sure 1000 shots with an HW35 improve your shooting more than reading 100.000 words about under-levers, diopters, scope sights or whatever.
But apparently, that would have been too easy 🙂
If you ask the folks on the Internet, you can’t buy a toaster without discussing the laws of thermodynamics. And that is before you know whether you even *like* toast that much…
Stephan
Stephan,
Boy, do you have it right! You have an innate sense of how people think and that carries through your writing.
If have found if a person wants to buy something, let them buy it. They need to learn for themselves, because each of us is different.
B.B.
I’m a bad guy in this way, because I love to troll people 🙂
When someone asks me for some intro session and wants to shoot “PCP only, as they are inherently accurate!” I give him my PCP and get on the neighboring line with CFX.
Man, I just love to watch their faces when inherently accurate gun can not even touch the outer ring and that springer trash is keeping within 1 inch at 50 m 🙂 Some start to understand…
If I was to put it as a rule, it would be something like “The only way to learn how to shoot and the only way to find your first rifle is to try every rifle in your reach and buy yourself one that is most accurate in your hands without training. Then train (correctly) with that rifle until you feel it’s completely predictable and gives a predictably high results. Then search for one that makes you shoot radically better. And then repeat”
duskwight
Duskwight:
Here, we call those 10-tin packs of pellets a “Stange” (=”bar”) of pellets. So far, I’ve gone through 2 bars of RWS Gecos. I’m considering getting “SWS Thunder” from Sportwaffen Schneider next time. I think it’s quite likely that they’re H&N Sport for a cheaper price.
Of course, there’s nothing wrong with being a gearhead. I own 5 pairs of studio headphones simply because it’s an interest of mine. Still, I don’t think everybody should be using studio headphones and certainly not for every possible use.
Stephan
Stephan
Yes, stange is fine too 🙂 In Russsian it’s a name for barbell (among other things, mostly tech stuff), and 5000 pellets in each hand can make for a good set of training equipment 😉
As far as I remember myself I almost got through 4 sausages of Gecos (red tin) for my 300S. If not for a month offline and a month I’d call “a waste of ammo”, 3 sausages made my groups shrink significantly and with 4th I started to get true understanding of things.
duskwight
B.B.,
My prayers go out to God for Edith and you. May she feel His healing touch.
I completely agree with everything you wrote. I would like to add that just as you should shoot the best pellets you can get(afford), you should also shoot the best gun, be it handgun or rifle, that you can get(afford). Let best be defined however you wish to define it. For me it’s accuracy. In my experience the best guns make a significant difference. They do not make you a champion shooter, only natural ability combined with great practice can do that. But it does make a difference. I think we all understand what we are capable of and are usually realistic about it. Sometimes my imagination soars but not normally.
As far as cost is concerned, we all need to be good stewards of our finances.
Again B.B., my prayers and best wishes go out to you, Edith and your family. I wish I could do more.
G&G
P.S. My search for a FWB 300S continues. So far all I have found is a 300 (without the S) and another I believe he called a FWB 300s “mini” (I didn’t understand it)?
Try egun.de Lots of that stuff there for reasonable money and I believe they send to US, but check first.
Not sure, but “mini” could be Junior with “girly” stock, sized S for some petite shooter.
Tandwweir,
I think that “mini” is a “FWB 300 Junior”. That’s a smaller, lighter version for women and youths. I *believe* it has the same action.
You can see some of the different models at w w w (dot) muzzle (dot) de (not sure if the spam filter will still eat posts with URLs and Edith isn’t here to fish them out of the trash).
Stephan
Stephan
Exactly the same. The only difference is that it comes minus barrel weight/shroud and the stock selection starts with M. I own 300S Junior myself and find it OK on the weight side, but I had to add a 20 mm “shim” and then some to the buttstock to adapt it to my size.
duskwight
I’m glad to hear I’m not the only one that has some (sausage) shot through my guns and a fair amount of sausage at that.
Somebody just made a comment to me the other day about my pellet collection. Maybe collection ain’t the right word. Maybe I should say air gun food. And just certain type of food.
All I know is I have some hungry air guns and they just want to eat all the time. And believe me I try to feed them. And man you ought to see how they act when I try to feed them something they don’t like. But I’m learning what makes them feel better. And believe me it helps when you hold them right. They are always happy when I do that. And I know they are happy when I wipe them down to put them away. But I think they are anxiuosly wait for the next time I get them out to shoot and feed them their food for the day.
You know I didn’t realize how much work there is to keeping a air gun happy and shooting well. But boy they will shure let you know if you shoot them enough.
Have fun shooting and learning is all I can say and listen to what your gun says. If you listen close enough it will tell you what it likes. I love my air guns. Always will. 🙂
Ok, I just did a little “reality check” of my own.
I’ve shot 2×10 shots at 10m from an offhand position, to see if the better gun will perform better.
First with the Diana 31, then with the FWB300S.
The targets were 14×14 cm “hobby” targets with 1-12 rings on them (similar to these but with a “12” in the middle: /product/gamo-paper-targets-100-pack?a=147)
The Diana was used with: Leader 4×32 scope, H&N Sport .177
The FWB was used with: Nikko 3-9×41, RWS Geco .177 (set to 4x magnification)
Results:
Diana 101 / 120
FWB 100 / 120
So in this case, the Diana gun doesn’t seem to be the limiting factor. I know 2 targets are not statistically relevant, but the result is pretty typical.
I think I don’t have much trouble with using the artillery hold on the Diana. My greatest problem is still wobble and the gun can’t change that.
When I shoot from a rest, the FWB usually performs a little better.
I guess it’s fair to say that I am far from even using the potential of the affordable springer. But still, the FWB is a really cool gun and I enjoy having it 🙂
Stephan
B.B., I will go back up to read today’s blog report, but not before I say how I am affected by your update. Although, not as intense for me as for you today, I have a feeling very similar to how I felt when my wife was hit head on by the drunk driver. I pray for healing for Edith. I know it will take time. I pray for you; you are a strong person, but you must lean on the strength of others. There is hope. ~ken
When I bought the “Benjamin Titan GP” in 2011 I had no delusions that it was anything but a relatively inexpensive .22 caliber springer, although I was interested in the Nitro Piston. I started researching it after I bought it, an experience that was as frustrating as it was entertaining.
I was somewhat disappointed that it lacked the power I expected, but I accepted that as a fact of life. By power, I mean kinetic energy, not just FPS.
I could fill a plastic 1 liter coke bottle with water, tighten the lid on it, shoot it with the Titan and have a Crosman Premier hollow point bounce off. This was at 15 yards.
Yesterday, with the new “Nitro Piston” installed, I performed the same exercise. There was an entrance hole and there was an exit hole.
Life is good.
~ken
That’s better!
Congratulations on your successful rebuild Ken!
Thanks, Reb. Now, with 10000 hours of dedicated practice I may be able to shoot as accurately as the Titan is able to. ~ken
The exercise is hardly clinical, but it is satisfying in its own way. ~ken
About all I’m able to muster is maybe an hour per day After my prescribed bicycling my legs are quivering and my back is screaming.
I understand!
I gotta let my muscles heal this weekend.
Logs,….???
“sausage”, “barbell”, “stange”,……. may I add “roll” or “log”……? 10,000 huh…???? Man !,….I got a ways,…a LONG ways,…to go ! Only got 3 empty 500 tins in the cupboard. A few 250 and 500 tins close behind. Got my first “roll” the other day. 5×500.
Talk about a “Reality Check”,…..!!!! 🙁 Got to go,….gotta a lot of catching up to do….make lots of targets….quit my job…….got to shoot,…got to shoot,… got to shoot,…. 😉
BB
The VW spewing gas in your face certainly brought back memories. We use to say back in the day that a person was in “classic Volkswagen position” i.e “Dead on the side of the road!” I finally started making enough money that I went and bought a new truck. No more fixing other’s bad fixes. Can’t be good at everything and while I can shade tree mechanic if I have to, other things are more interesting.
The discussion about practice brings to mind a saying from a Zen master I knew once. “Practice doesn’t make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.” While I used to be a pretty fair shot with a rifle, pellet guns have proven to be an interesting challenge. I’ll never bother with 10-meter competition, but I do like going out back in the evening and putting 60-90 pellets thru a Birchwood-Casey shoot-n-see target. By that time it’s getting dark and I’m sweating so it was fun.
Yes there are people with “talent.” An attribute that we can’t ever seem to define, but we all recognize when we see it. I’ve got what would be called a mid-level rifle in the ~$250 range. After tossing the scope, replacing the trigger, and putting a decent scope on it (and tuning it based on instructions from one of your older posts), I can sometimes put 30 pellets in a 3″ – 4″ space off-hand at 50′. Some nights though, I’m lucky to keep them all on the paper. Clearly even this cheap gun is more accurate than I am.
Steady, regular, “perfect” practice can make most anyone better at most anything. On the other hand, there’s a plateau were improvement becomes incremental and requires absolute focus and commitment. It would be called diminishing returns in a design paradigm, but it’s the only way to join the truly elite. Me? I just like to punch holes in paper, go thru the great shots and the “S*** can’t believe I pulled that one!” It’s all fun as long as I accept that it’s just for fun and not get in competition with myself.
As for your partner and having been in a place much like you are, all I can say is “Keep the Faith” and keep on keeping on.
“Yes there are people with “talent.” An attribute that we can’t ever seem to define […]”
I would define “talent” as an amount of skill that a person naturally has without having to work for it.
Talent can be substituted by practice and vice versa. Talent *and* practice make the master.
FINALLY,, I was able to find the scrap of paper with my password on it.
Edith,, I was very sorry that you won the rare disease of the week contest,, and You have my earnest hope that you will soon be “over the hump” and on your way to recovery. I don’t know you,, but I love you, babe.
BB,, (sorry about the I love you stuff,, but I gotta tell it like it is),, Remember to take care of yourself, too. It’s all too easy to let yourself get run down while caring for someone you love. As has been said before,, we will understand if you have to cut back on blog posts for a while,, even tho I know it seems to be a little bit of normalcy in a sea of uncertainty.
As for todays blog,, it was well said by you,, and reiterated well by many others. I have never reached for the heights in any discipline,, have been satisfied to surpass mediocrity when possible,, but even I have found the truths stated here to be valid. What little success in 3 position 10 meter air rifle I have had was solely due to practice. Not just pulling the trigger,, but seeking and accepting help from those more knowledgeable than myself, and using that knowledge to make my practice better.
That’s why I come here,, and I am seldom disappointed.
Ed
Ed,
No need to apologize for anything. I have said that before myself.
B.B.
B.B., /Tom,
All day today I found myself thinking about Edith and you. Then, at the end of my working day, I read all of the above as well, including stuff about oil changes, timing, and points, of all things. (That might have been an earlier blog.)
When I learned how to drive, my dad insisted I learned how to parallel park, change the oil, and change the spark plugs. Since then I have forgotten everything except parallel parking (the trick is to DO, not think how to do, just DO — VERY Zen) and to save coupons for oil changes at the local dealer. Times do change.
Quite atypical of me, I have nothing else to add, except that I hope for a very good night and tomorrow for you and Edith.
God be with the two of you,
Michael
Hi BB.
My thoughts are with Edith and yourself. I wish the best for both of you.
Rob
My name is Dr. Emmet Brown and this is temporal experiment… I mean Reality Check #2
Today I did fairly poorly with the rifles and fairly well with the HW45 (by my standards, anyway)
Diana 31: 99/120 (Scope, H&N Sport)
FWB300S: 97 / 120 (Scope, RWS Geco)
HW45: 86 / 120 (Iron sights, Umarex Mosquito)
At every meal I proclaim that it is “my favorite”… which is absolutely true because what is on my plate is what is being served so enjoy it!
I feel the same is true for whatever equipment or tools we have available to us. Learn the capabilities – identify the weak point and minimize them; identify the strong points and maximize them. Work within the capabilities. No point in wishing for something else.
My uncle demonstrated this very clearly when we swapped cameras for a day – the pictures he took with my $10 fixed-focus Kodak “Brownie” were much better that the pictures I took with his Nikon $$$$ with all the lenses I could carry!
I have used rifles that had poor triggers and inconsistent power-plants and learned to shoot them reasonably well – within the effective range of the equipment and the operator.
That being said, I always recommend buying the best equipment that you can afford that is appropriate to the intended use (you don’t “need” a Lamborghini to drive to work – though it would be nice 🙂 ) .
A well-made precision rifle is a pleasure to shoot. You can shoot knowing that any misses are not equipment related but are probably caused by a malformed pellet, the wind, rotation of the earth, solar flares and other uncontrollable influences. 🙂
Vana2
Vana2,
Solar flares !!! I knew it wasn’t me. 🙂
A cool test I saw on “Long Range Pursuit” on the Pursuit channel,….something like a 1000yd. shot(s). One due East,…the other West. One landed low,..and the other high. All due to the (Earth’s rotation) and the shorter/longer (time) it took for the bullet to get there.
I shoot due North,….what does that mean ????? Windage compensation on a calm day? 😉
Maybe a 3/32 mil-dot hold off ?
It’s got to be something,….I’m sure it’s not me. ( Denial, denial,….denial)
( Hope and pray Edith is doing better),……Chris
Chris USA
It’s called the Corilus effect if I’m spelling it right.
If you look at the old fuely ( fuel injected) drag cars of the 60’s they had 8 velocity stacks sticking out of the intake manifold to feed each cylinder. They were different lengths and angled in different ways. It was suppose to direct the intake charge in its best path to the intake valve. But they thought if they weren’t angled correct and the legnths were wrong it would up set the air flow to certain cylinder’s.
I wonder if anybody knows what the ehaust does when it blows out the tail pipe. Does it blow straight out? Or does it spiral?
What way does the water in your toilet spiral when the water flushes?
Hmm here’s a question. Wonder if people have tried left or right hand rotaion rifling in a barrel. And I’m serious. I think I remember hearing of left and right hand rotation rifling.
I actually witnessed a full size blazer blowing perfect smoke rings one brisk morning. Except for the blue tint anyway. 🙂
Reb
The exhaust spirals when it comes out.
The smoke ring happens for another reason. The exauhst stops for a split second then pressurizes again. Then the smoke ring then if the smoke was to continue after the smoke ring it would spiral.
Reb
Also remember when you said Vortex the other day when you was talking about the Vortek kits.
Well there’s a reason Chevy called their heads Vortex heads.
Look at what happens at the wing tips on jet fighter planes. The spiraling vortacies.
Well that’s what Chevy did. They unshrouded the valves to pick up the air flow at the valve. Which is a old trick to head porting. But it creates a spiral effect that starts scavenging the air from the intake port.
That’s why headers boost performance on a engine. The equal legnth runners comming from eacch individual exhaust port make down to the collector and it turns exhaust pressure into scavenging. It starts pulling the exhaust out of the cylinder. That’s how the Tri-Y headeds came about.
Then that’s why they have tuned pipes on 2 stroke engines. We use to put tuned pipes on our R/C airplane 2 stroke engines. You could hold the engine rpm at mid throttle and slide the pipe for ward or backwards on the header pipe and the engine would in crease or decrease rpm. When you got max rpm we would mark the header then cut off the header pipe at that spot and attach the pipe and the engine would then be tuned. But you better not change props and load the engine different because the engine wouldn’t come on pipe as we called it. It would be a dog unless you went in a divw and unloaded the engine. That’s why 2 stroke motocross bikes act that way.
And we use to do the same to the drag cars. We would paint the collector pipe after were all the pipes came together at the header. And go make a run with out mufflers on. When you came back and parked you would look for where the paint was burned off. Then you would cut the pipe there and run open without exhaust or attach the mufflers or a x-pipe or h-pipe at that point. But that’s were the ehaust would actually start scavenging the exhaust flow. Kind of like a mini tornado.
Gunfun1
You have been talking about headers and scavenging and painting the pipe to find the optimal length for the pipe to be cut to which is all correct for a particular engine and rpm range as in drag racing, but that is exactly what its for is an engine that is used in a very very narrow rpm range such as drag racing where you are only concerned with wide open throttle and nothing else.
To tune for a all around street driven vehicle that needs to run best at just above idle to the engines redlines it is all a compromise as to carburetor, intake , head, camshaft, compression, exhaust and so on to get a package that performs best in a wide rpm range and unless you are drag racing only the combo for a drag car will make a very poor street car or bike.
My KZ 1000 drag bike while it does run very good on the strip with a 4 into 1 Vance and Hines header that is tuned for it to run between 8 to 10000 rpm between shifts it suffer greatly on the street with that same header in the bottom rpm range since the 4 into 1 header actually over scavenges at low rpm causing precious fuel to be drawn out the pipe before it gets burned in the cylinder to make power at rpms below 6000. I switched from a scavenge header to a reversion header that works by using the cylinder pulses to force fuel to remain in the cylinders at lower rpm but still removes the burnt fuel as well if not better at high rpm. Which is what Doug Thorleys tri Y header actually was as it used the same reversion principle of utilizing the engine pressure pulses to push fuel back into cylinders at lower rpms and still scavenge better at high rpms so in a sense you get the best of both worlds.
I was lucky enough to find an old Warrior header for my KZ 1000 that is a Canadian made reversion 4 into 1 into 2 header that when installed was immediately noticeable as to the increased bottom end power with no loss of high end and actually even better high end power was realized as well. Since with the 4 into 1 Vance and Hines header I would have to clutch it to light the rear tire at 10 to 15 mph in first gear to get it up to the 6000 rpm start of the cams power band and with nothing more than the swap to the Warrior header all I need to do to light the rear tire at 10 mph is whack the throttle wide open with no clutching and the tire goes up in smoke and will keep it smoking thru second and in to third and it revs to 10000 rpm faster than it did with the Vance and Hines header.
So drag pipes are just that for drag racing only and are not the first choice for the street and is why so many Harleys have little to no bottom end power when drag pipes are installed as compared to any brand of two into one pipe on a Harley as they are for wide open throttle only and most Harley riders do not ride at wide open throttle everywhere they ride. For Harleys the best street pipe is a thunder header and second best is a supertrapp, but any two into one will outrun drag pipes all day long unless the whole motor is built around those drag pipes and then it will be so cantankerous to ride on the street it will not be of any enjoyment while riding as you will be so busy shifting to keep the motor in its very narrow power band that you will be worn out in 20 miles.
BD
Buldawg
Headers when done that way with the painting thing will improve overall performance.
The vehicle will be more responsive throut the rpm range. But will be the most efficient when the cam comes in.
Remember my race cars where muscle cars and they were street driven. And driven to the dragstrip. No trailer queens for me.
So when I was building a car a very important thing for me was to keep it drivable on the street.
Do you remember that series of racing that was called “The fastest street car shoot out”. That’s what I raced. Part of being able to race the event the cars had to complete a 30 mile cruise.
There’s alot of charectrics of the cam profile that has to be looked at to make a car work on the street and dragstrip. And headers and painting the cllector pipe does work across the whole power range of a car. But its just more affective at certain rpm ranges.
Gunfun1
Yea I remember that series and knew also that you drove your cars on the street as well as raced them but just wanted the less experienced here to understand that the term drag pipe or race exhaust is misleading to the general public in terms of what they will or can expect from adding headers or other performance parts to vehicles as it all has to work together or the end product will be a very poor running and disappointing vehicle that will seem like they just thru their hard earned money down the drain.
Especially with Harleys or other long stroke v twin engines as they are far lore affected by poorly matched parts than v8 motors and will show the results much more pronounced than engines with more cylinders do as the more cylinders you have the more forgiving the exhaust pressure pulses are and the less noticeable mismatch parts seem to be in the performance of the vehicle. On a Harley drag pipe are the worst exhaust you can use unless you are using for just that “drag racing ” as that is all those pipes are good for is wide open throttle. sure they sound fast as can be but in reality any Harley with a two into one will run circles around you on the street so everything has to work together just as in air gun to be fun and enjoyable and keep our sport or any sport thriving and growing.
BD
Buldawg
Yep that’s why they are called tuned headers
See what happens with a car engine if you go to bug on the primary tubes on the headers comming off the exauhst ports. People all whent crazy getting the big tube headeds that had like 2.5″ diameter and even bigger. Those cars were slugs below 4000 rpm. They could verily drive the car to the staging lanes.
I stayed with the 1.5″ primary tubes and I would burn their you know what when I would beat them and drive home with the a/c still blowing cold while they were loading the trailer queens up.
Hmm kind of reminds me of what somebidy is doing with a .25 caliber Marauder. 😉
OUCH !
(you can do it BD,…I got faith)
Chris
Gunfun1
Yep tuned indeed but the problem is most do not understand that term fully as tuned for what and at which engine speeds or camshafts and so on and on.
Tuned to most means it is better or faster or smoother depending on the application. So while those 2 1/2 primary pipes may be tuned for a 800 cubic inch drag only car they were way overkill for the average street hot rod.
That is why your small tubed street/drag car was so fast as you had it TUNED correctly where everything was working together to make it the best it could be.
I hope my Brod will be able to be TUNED to the same level of power that I have planned for it and know it will I just have to do the time and effort to make that happen.
BD
Not just any old.25 marauder but the one you put up for adoption. 🙂
Buldawg
The Mrod or as you call it Brod will perform.
Remember you already said that they were tryed and tested with other people saying the components worked.
But at least when you get the Mrod converted to the Brod you will be able to give us info first hand.
You already know I said I was watching your biuld to see how it all ends up.
Gunfun1
I do know it indeed work and very well from the reviews I have read and researched leading me to the modification I am doing on it so its just waiting for the rest of the parts to get here to complete the build and tune for the pellet of my choice which I am planning on using the new JSB 33.95 grainer shooting at 950 fps average which is right just above 69 fpe power and should spin that 100 yard spinner around several times.
There will be a full report on tuning and settings here when it is completed and tuned and has put that Rapid to bed with out supper .
BD
Buldawg
You know I’ll be waiting.
But I know you will be texting me as you do the assembly of the components.
🙂
Gunfun1
Yea you will be there with me every step of the build as we have become as close to brothers as anyone could be and not truly be brothers.
I am hoping the WAR parts arrive here today so I can get started on it .
BD
Gunfun1,
Yea, those cars were/are cool. As for the rest of the ?,…spiral, ?….yeah, I heard that before, but, mine is more a straight down flusher,…just checked, and the last,..I do not think it would matter on spiral/barrel twist….twist being the same.
So,…..how did it work ? Drillin’ 1 holers at a 100 yds. ? If it did not work as planned, see post below. Man !,….have I got a deal for you ! 😉
Chris USA
Maybe it would matter. Maybe if the barrel had the opposite rotation than the Coriolis effect the bullet wouldn’t drop and go left or right.
You know when you pkot a trajectory you shouldn’t only look from the side of the pellet flight for the pellet rise and fall.
You should also look at your pellet flight from the top. When velocity us its strongest at the beginning and looses velocity towards the end of its flight it will shift left or right.
Gunfun1,
Interesting,….I remember “way back” you set out targets at 10,20,30,40 and 50 yds. and shot. At least I think it was you. That,…would show (that) effect.
Chairgun does not illustrate that, does it ?
I would think,…that paper (only) could be used,……if backers were used,..it would slow down the pellet and give a false reading of what the pellet would do in un-obstructed flight.
Please,….do tell more….
Chris USA
You got it. If you know how to read your targets that are placed at differnt distances you will be amazed what that paper will show.
I ran a buncha duals back in my day and velocity and the venturi effect had a lot to do with how I did my job.
Custom Y-pipe for a lowrider? I keep hitting it on these speedbumps. 🙂
No problem sir. 🙂
Reb
The good old days is all I can say.
🙂
Sad part is I could still be doing that stuff if I only had 2 personal assistants and a shop full ‘o equipment.
my Dad told me long ago how heavy car parts were and there were many more desirable professions to choose from but I proved I could pull it off for a while!
Reb
Working on cars is for sure hard work at times.
I’m about to go out and start my reality check for the day.
I hope that Monkey bag I just got from PA helps me get my act together. One day I will get rid of that darn scope wiggle. I know I will. Won’t I?
And I did a test fit last night with it on my saw horse and 2×4’s and I think I’m going to like it. You can undo the Velcro that’s on the weights and open them up. I draped the weights over the front and back of the 2×4’s and it seems like it is going to stay in position nice. And the bag feels just right on how much sink the gun will have into the bag.
I think I’m going to like it. Hmm wonder if I will need 10,000 shots before I know. Who cares I’m going to have fun finding out I’m sure. 🙂
Gunfun1,
You ?,….get your “act” together ?,…….uhhhh,…yea,….right. 😉
Yea,….keep telling yourself that “wiggle” will go away. ( for sure,..your’s must be less than mine )
Just got a set of “Gyroscopic Rings”,…..cancells all “wiggle”. Dead still. 100yds.,…no problem. They had a 2 for 1 sale, so I got an extra set. But,.. since your a friend,….I will let you have the spare set at the un-heard price of $999.99 ! It’s a sacrafice,.. I know,…but what are friends for.
😉 Hope the new rest helps……..Chris
Chris USA
Shhhh, quiet will you quit giving out all this top secret info.
Now everybody will be shooting 1 hole 100 yard groups. 😉
But about the bag. I did email you some pictures of my shooting today. Got a picture a the saw horse and the Monkey bag sitting on top. Had to remove one 2×4 to keep my shooting height right.
But no real improvements in my groups with the Monkey bag. But it did make it a little more comfortable to shoot. The gun doesn’t slide forward or backwards anymore with the Monkey bag. I can set the gun in it and it stays were I put it. So for just that reason I will keep using it.
And let me know what you think of my two trophy ferral cans I took today with that HPA converted 1077 with the redot sight on it.
They didn’t have a chance. 🙂
Gunfun1,
Will check out later,…..heading out to shoot the LGU some more. 85, humid and sunny/cloudy. I sit in the shade with a fan for skeeters….so all in all, I don’t suffer too bad.
Of course, that’s nothing compared to your all weather “Deluxe” indoor shooting “parlor”. Really,…did you have to go that far in describing it ? I’m jealous. A/C that puppy. Heck, I would never leave the parlor except to change targets. Then again, do like the indoor shooting ranges do,…hit a switch and the target zings out,…hit it again and the target zings back.
Got ya’ thinkin’ huh ? 😉
Chris
It does have a/c and heat vents piped out to it.
It has a door to the house so doesn’t affect my utility bill anyway.
And I do have to keep a fan blowing at the window I have open. It helps keep the hot outside air out and the bugs.
The dang mosquitoes out here where I live now will carry you away. Got to have the one up on them any way possible. It’s like they attack big time when your outside.
Gunfun1,
Really,….????,….clear out the garage,…I’m moving in !
Did the 4×10 at 30 yds. 40, 28,28,18mm…… 🙂 = me
At 50yds,…..38mm with 6/10 at 16mm.
The 40 was rested at the rear of the cocking slot,…the rest were rested on the tip of the “schnable”
Happy Camper,……Chris
Chris USA
6 out of 10 @ 16 mm. Now where talking.
So as it goes. A Tx and LGU could both feel at home at a feild target match. I believe anyway.
Gunfun1,
In the spirit of sharing, I decided to post the chrony info. you and BD were asking about.
( for the rest of you, this is a .22, LGU, broke in, with 15.89 JSB )
591, 590, 591, 591, 588, 588, 596, 593, 587, 587……( = or > than .5 was rounded up )
lo 586.7
hi 596.3
av 590.2
sp 9.57
sd 3.0
So GF, how does that match up with what you got ?
Nice spread. I was surprised how close the fps were.
Chris
Chris USA
Pretty interesting. Your closer to my readings than what Buldawg has been getting. With air guns anway. We both shot some rimfire rounds through the chrony and we got pretty much the same thing. But his air guns that he got from me have been reading as much as 100 fps slower than what my chrony says.
He’s got the red chrony and I got the green chrony so we are just trying to come up with reasons why such a big difference.
But what my chrony said shooting the JSB 15.89’s was from 615 fps to 625 fps. So as it goes my chrony is reading a little faster than yours also. But not like the difference Buldawg has got compared to mine.
What chrony do you have?
Gunfun1
Chris’s chrony is the same red alpha master as mine with the remote readout so now we have a third data point and still only speculation as to why the readings vary by the amounts they do as Chris is close to the same longitude as you are but slightly more east in latitude whereas I am both lower and more easterly in latitude and longitude than both of you so its still a mystery as why we do not get closer readings.
BD
GF1,
Yup, BD got it……red w/removable readout. Interesting.
Chris and Buldawg.
I usually chrony outside in the direct sunlight with the sun shades on.
And the humidity is pretty well around 50% and 85 degrees or more when I have been chronying the guns.
Me and Buldawg talked about maybe the difference could be the altitude difference. But we all are probably close to the same sea level.
And what is odd is that the 710 fps 40 grn CCI bullets both shot the same fps out of our rimfire .22 caliber rifles.
My question is maybe the air guns are affected by weather conditions and the thickness of the air at different altitudes.
Im not sure why the different readings. But would like some more ideas of why or how that could affect the same gun but at different locations in the states.
I’m open for some more ideas.
I’ve got the stock off my new Ruger Impact to tighten it’s barrel joint which is very loose now and affecting accuracy but it’s unclear which side tightens.
Help!
It took all the lights on and an open door along with reading glasses but I got it back together now.
Reb
Nothing like having the proper equipment for the job at hand. 😉
Reb,
The left side tightens and the right side is usually a nut.
B.B.
Is that something I should get around to pulling out and picturing or does that sound like a “not so good” idea?
I’ll try again:
Should I pull the screw and apply loctite to cut down on disassembly requirements?
The forearm screws only fit well on their favorite sides.
Reb
I Loctite by barrel pivot screws and also paint a white line at the screw head slot on the receiver fork to tell at a glance if the screw has loosened. Just make sure the fork threads and screw threads are clean and free of oils before loctiting and I use a screwdriver headed socket on a ratchet so I can snug the screw up easily without the chance of the screwdriver slipping and scratching the gun and it allows for downward pressure on the screw driver headed socket as well but you got to use what you have I just have more tools than most people would use in their lifetime but mine a made a living with so not having the right tool cost me time which cost me money.
BD
My prayers go out to Edith and you. I have spent too much time in hospitals so I feel your pain.
I’m just home from shooting a Three Gun Match. It’s the first one I have shot in four years. Great fun. There was a LOT of height tech equipment, which also means high dollar. One guy had a tricked out HK AR he said cost him $5000.00! Well, not to brag buy my 1975 SP-1 Colt beat the HK. When I saw what the course of fire would be, I brought and used my Win 1897 pump that I shoot for Cowboy Action. Since you had to load the gun on the clock, it was much faster to single load the old Winchester than to fill the mag tube on a tactical auto. In the end, the years of shooting Cowboy Action payed off and I was top gun. Practice, Practice, Practice.
Just now at home there was a Red Squirrel cleaning out my bird feeder, so it’s back to air guns!
Mike
Big Iron,
Congratulations are in order,…….4yrs.,….not bad ! Must feel good……
Sound’s a bit like the “quest” ol’ Buldawg76 is on. ( high end vs basic stuff ).
( Got yo’ ears on out there BD…? Hope the eye stuff went well. )
Chris
Chris, thanks for the kind words. I had a good day. Now, when I shoot Trap, it doesn’t work out so well!
Mike
Chris, USA
Eye surgery went perfect and all floaters are gone so no shooting bugs on the target that I could never hit for me anymore and just a week of non strenuous activities and drops in my eye 4 times a day for a couple weeks at will be back to 20/20 vision.
So glad I took the chance and got it done as it has paid off greatly.
Just waiting for my power parts from California to get here to start my bottled marauder build to see if I can put 40 shots down range at our 100 yard spinner with enough power to actually spin it fully around several times instead of just swing like the Rapid does so time will tell and may the underdog triumph once again.
BD
Buldawg76,
Glad the eye stuff went well. While the “floaty bug” things may be fun to shoot at, I bet the group would look pretty awfull. Got some myself. Worse when really tired. 90% of time = none.
Did the chrony test this am…(results posted just above,…. to GF).
Will be interesting to see comparisons. Hopefully solve the “mystery”.
Chris, USA
Yea glad my eye is back to as close to 100% as possible for our ages and should be one more thing to help my FT shooting.
Checked out your chrony data and it is much closer to GF1s data than mine has been but both of you are at about the same longitudes and only different latitudes so that may be an indication that location does make some noticeable difference but does not explain why firearm rounds are within 10 fps of the same reading versus 100 fps difference with air guns.
The mystery continues.
BD
BD76,
Longitude and Latitude,…???,….really? Where did you come up with that one ?
Don’t get me wrong,….I know your a “straight shooter” and must have heard it somewhere.
Just have not heard that correlation to chrony’s before.
You never heard about toilets flushing by swirling the water the other way in the southern hemisphere?
Reb,
Yup,….heard that before,….this blog matter of fact.
As for the chrony, yup,…thought about shooting it, ok, maybe flushing it,….but really,…after doing the indoors and 500W Halogen bit,…..no problems. 10/10 today with no issues.
Chris, USA
Its all about location and that is what is used to determine our locations and since you and GF1 readings are very close as compared to mine and you both are much farther north than I am it only stands to reason the you both are close to the same longitude with latitude being the main difference in location/ weather and atmospheric conditions as compared to me down in the heart of Dixie so I am just trying to figure out why firearm rounds show up with very little fps difference as compared to air gun when both are shooting below the 1000 fops velocity range.
it is just one of those thing that has been bugging me and will not let up until I have a plausible and reasonable answer.
Did not mean to go all scientist on you but it is the way our earth is laid out in a grid pattern to determine exact location and atmospheric condition related to those locations.
BD
BD76,
🙂 Don’t worry about “going all scientist on me”…….. I get a little too far into that myself from time to time.
And yeah,…..it (the chrony diff.) bugs me too. While the average person ask why once,….I keep asking….often to a great degree of of frustraton.
While most would not tear into a TX, I’m glad I did,….several times ! And learned a lot. Now I can make a more relevant comment on tunes and such.
Maybe a head to head chrony test ????
Chris, USA
Yeah BB are you reading this as it would be a good report as to why chronys do or will read significantly different when used in different locations and what if anything could be the cause or done to negate such large differences such as GF1 and I have between our two when shot with the same gun and get 100 plus fps difference in reading.
I have bought several guns from GF1 and he has told me that they chrony at a certain fps range and when I get them and chrony them on mine I have seen as high as 200 fps difference with mine reading low as compared to his and he has the green alpha chrony and mine is the red alpha master chrony with remote read out and Chris just used his alpha master ( red ) to chrony GF1s LGU and got close but slightly lower fps than Gf1 does on his alpha chrony and we have been trying to determine the cause.
We have shot the quiet 22lrs that state 710 fps on the boxes on our chronys and both read within 10 fps of the stated 710 fps as an average velocity with a spread of around 30 fps max so they read close enough with powder burners but are anywhere from 100 to 200 fps different with air guns and that is the mystery we are trying to figure out.
I am sure we could get many readers to provide their data if you set the parameters as far as pellets, guns, power levels and such to see if location does have any significant effect on the actual reading and if so by how much .
BD
BD76,
The only way that could happen is that P.A. would have to send BB several different chronys,…and then,…as he travels,….test them with the same gun. Thinkin’ that ain’t gonna’ happen.
It still bugs me,….but in the end,…at least you/we have an idea of a “tunes” impact,…wherever we live. And I think it goes without saying,…no one can trust the fps on the box ! 😉 Unless your using some air filled aluminum pellet that goes haywire 10′ from the muzzle.
We got some really smart people who visit here. Maybe one will see the question and offer a plauseable answer or theory.
Chris,USA
Go to bottom as no reply button
BD.
Buldawg I just left a response to Chris above and to both of your attension.
I didn’t read down this far yet but responded in about the same words you just did.
I would like more info and data about the guns having different readings in different locations.
Rwad my comment above to you and Chris.
Maybe there is somebody that has done chrony testing in different areas that can shed some light on this.
As you say another mystery to solve.
I’m all ears right now.
I’m thinking the sealed firearm rounds are merely less susceptible to current atmospheric conditions(they bring their own air).
Reb
I thought about it many times.
It keeps feeling like I keep missing one key thing that will give the answer.
I do still wonder if anybody has chronyed air guns at different locations around the world even. Not just here in one city in the USA.
Reb
You may be right as they use powder instead of air so in a manor of speaking they do bring their own air indeed.
BD
First off the tag/name change. I’m trying to use the same one for all the airgun forums i post to. I was John E. or John Eroh. Any ways on to my actual response.
Practice is so key I forgot about it. I did very well at the Crosman FT event this year, placing second in my class(hunter). I had been practicing my off hand shooting 4-6 times a week for two months, 30 to 60 rounds each session. I had been doing that for two months leading up to the match. After that event I didn’t have a match for five weeks and worked worked worked but had not time for practice, off hand or otherwise. The next match I attended I did not do well. I shot a 39/60 and I attribute this to my lack of Practice.
Hi folks,
I’ve been wondering whether there’s a rule of thumb for the correct length of pull on a rifle…
I googled and there seems to be a rule called “crooked elbow to crooked trigger finger”.
Does that mean you bend your arm at about 90°, place the butt of the rifle on your bicep and then look where your trigger finger ends up if you bend it the way you do for shooting?
BTW, some more “reality checks” (again, the maximum score is 120):
Diana 31P: 101, 104
FWB 300S: 105, 108
It still doesn’t look like the Diana is “limiting” my score, especially if you bear in mind that the FWB also has the better scope on it.
CptKlotz,
Yea, I read that awhile back,..or something similar.
For me, it came down to this,…..what felt right to me. But, what can you do to change it if you want more? Unless you can buy ready made spacers,…or are pretty darn handy with wood, your stuck with what you got.
What I ended up trying was (recoil pads). The first, and cheapest worked, but not a real good fit. The second was a LimbSaver brand. Very nice, very pliable, very grippy. It added 1″ and they come in sm/med/large to fit different stocks. A med. fit the TX and LGU very nice. Easy to remove to slather your “baby” down with it’s favorite polish/oil. Also, when done shooting, the pad has canted a bit, which means it setteled into my shoulder for a more custom fit…..which in my book,…is good.
I highly recommend them. I am 6’4″ and wear a large shirt fine, but the sleeves are a bit short. Thus, I must have longer than average arms.
It works for me…….Chris
Chris,
I’m about 6’0″ and it seems if you apply that rule, the Diana 31P and the HW35E fit me almost perfectly.
On the FWB 300S with the Nikko 3-9×42 scope mounted, I noticed that the eye piece was a bit closer to my eye than I liked. I can’t move it forward because then I wouldn’t be able to load pellets anymore.
However, I removed the buttcap and noticed that it has *very* long screws that go into nut that is inside the rifle’s butt. So it wasn’t hard to put some spacers in there which helped with the scope situation. Also, the rifle now fits the “elbow and trigger finger” rule better than before. So I guess this is a good thing unless there are different rules for dedicated target rifles.
The recoil pads are probably also a good solution, especially when the buttcap is made of plastic instead of rubber (as it is on the Diana).
Stephan
CptKlotz,
Upper arm at side, fore arm bent 90 and in front, trigger finger bent. From inside of elbow to inside of trigger finger, on me…..meausres 14 1/8″ which is what I get on the TX. The LGU measures 14 1/4″ by my measuements. Now that I think about it, I’m pretty sure that’s the “guide”.
But, for me, I wanted or felt I needed more. What ever works for you.
Chris,
it seems we understand the rule pretty much the same way.
Maybe it has to do with your preferred hold and some other factors as well.
I haven’t really “learned” shooting. I do it at home for fun and try to apply the things I read 🙂
It seems that for me, the rule is valid as far as I can judge.
Stephan
CptKlotz,
I agree,….
I read, learn and (try) to apply what I learn,…just like you. Just home fun for me as well. Sometimes I get to takin’ things a bit too serious,…..that’s when a “reality check” is in order. 😉
No one ever taught me “how to shoot”. I guess,… that is one (of many) good things about here….lot’s of info. and really nice people ready to offer up some good advice. Just up to me to digest it and practice it.
Was hoping to “brag” about some groups today,…out of ten, 10 shot groups,… ;( …which leads me back to “practice”. Believe me, there was nothing to brag about. Talk about a reality check…..
Been trying different holds with the Impact and it seems to like the offhand out by the cocking slot.
There, it’s been recorded!
My day is done!
Reb
For one particular gun. Or have you tryed different guns to see what they act like?
I can only afford this one and everyone else with the money seems to be trying something else but I kinda like it like that, at least I don’t have to buy em all to get the experience!
Guess I should get a 500W lamp for chrony readings but anyone who knows me should understand that:
So long as it hits where I’m aiming with the authority of Thor’s hammer the only # I’m interested in from there is: how many times?
Reb
I’m with you on shooting performance.
What happens at the target is what counts.
Chris, USA
You need to realize that by not being taught to shoot you have not been taught or learned any bad habits that need to be forgotten or broken so in some respect you are ahead of lots of us here that thru the years of learning have formed habits that while at the time seemed right or good but now we find that they are bad or wrong and its much harder to break old habits than learn new ones so be thankful you have only to learn good habits and not forget bad ones.
BD
BD,
Good point,..one I had yet to remind myself as of late.
But for now,…I will will borrow and use an excuse from Vana2,…..Solar Flares !
They will mess up a group every time ! 😉
Chris,USA
I will second that as solar flares mess everything up and are no good for anyone.
Lets just hope the NASA scientist are wrong about the solar flare cycle the sun is supposed to be going thru in the next two years that will create an EMOP of the magnitude that it will destroy all electrical systems as we know of today and plunge us into the dark ages for years.
Practice , practice\, practice as your springers may be your only source of meat providing for years to come.
BD
Chris, USA
Meant EMP not EMOP or more specifically and electro magnetic pulse that will destroy electricity as we know it .
BD
So that’s what it was?
Do we need to send Virgil?
We have the brightest minds from around the globe gathered here today 🙂
Something’s gotta give!
Reb
No mind today can compete with Mother Nature so lets just hope she does not get that mad at us.
BD
I’ve got the scope about 1/2 mounted on my Ruger Impact. Guess we’ll find out if they got the droop issue resolved on this one, that’s one of the main reasons I’ve steered clear of the Diana’s and their clones.
This gun came with a picatinny rail mounted in its dovetail. I’ll be going with bo shims to get an idea of whether they addressed droop or not and hopefully how effective it was.
About3 shots had the rings audibly sliding on the rail between stops with the thumbscrews fingertight.
project postponed, pending further research. 🙂
Reb
You got to tighten them more than finger tight to keep them from moving on the weaver rail and they should have a slot for a coin to fit in or a large screwdriver but tighten them down very snug as just the crossbar will keep them from moving back but not from sliding back and forth so tighten them puppies up and secure the scope as well and sight it in and enjoy.
BD
Thanks for the advice!
The thumbscrews are about the same size as the mounts on my Tasco(no stops) that normally woulda been first.
but yeah,it’s gotta Kick!
Reb
You got to get them good and tight and move them back against the rear of the slot so they cannot move backwards after they are tight and then secure the scope tight and you should be good to go.
BD
I think I got it backward in my scrambled brain so Thanks for the clarification!
Your thoughts on pulling the pivot bolt for loc-tite application?
I have blue and red.
Reb
Blue Loctite as you need to be able to remove that screw for future service or repair. Just use a Q-tip to clean the threads in the fork with brake clean and the threads on the screw as well to remove all oils and apply the Loctite to the inside of the threads in the fork not the screw so the Loctite does not get on the pivot portion of the screw when installing it and lock the barrel closed. Then let it sit over night or at a minimum of 12 hours to allow the Loctite to set fully and you should be good to go with no issue of the screw loosening again unless you do it.
I also just put a paint mark or some way to see if it does move by painting a small dot at the end of the screw slot so you can tell at a glance if it has moved.
BD
Reb,
Watch that red loctite,…!!!!! If you clean the threads as BD recommended, it will take a TORCH to get the screws back out. I can’t see using that on an air gun,…ever.
How many places can you use a plumbing torch,…or even a pencil torch,…on an airgun ?
Just a heads up……
Chris
Chris,USA
I was not meaning that he travel the country to get data from various locations but rather he set the parameter for us the readers to send the data here on the blog to be reviewed and compiled to see if there was any common data info that could be used to explain if indeed the location plays a significant part in the reading or if it is a difference in the actual quality of the reading that our chronys give us.
It may be that they are not as accurate as we are led to believe or they may be highly accurate and the location/ weather or atmospheric condition have a great deal of impact on the reading we get .
Just a way to get even more reader involvement and answers for us all.
BD
BD,
🙂 See the above ? I do believe GF may have a little doubt in your success. Sound’s like a challenge to me.
Good ideas on the chrony’s. Factory stock (gun) comparisons. I’m a bit limited, since my 1 of 2 is tuned. But hey,….I’m game.
Better hurry though,…if I know me,..that 1 of 2 will turn into 2 of 2 in the future.
If GF ever reads this he will never speak to me again ! 😉
Chris,USA
Quite the contrary as that was a word of encouragement not doubt as we have been talking about this mod for awhile now and he believes it can and will come to fruition so no challenges but rather partnership as to my success.
You are right in to achieve a valid and repeatable test for chronys the guns would need to be close to the same levels of tunes as possible but then even brand new guns vary by some large margins so it would not be possible to do a highly controlled test but rather just a general gathering of data to see if any correlation or similarities could be formed from the data.
Yea I believe since its your gun now it is yours to play with as you chose and he will only hope that you do not make it worse as a result of tuning it .
BD
Buldawg
You know me to well.
Again I left a comment above with out reading all the way through the blog.
You know that I said I will be watching your biuld on the Brod. And like I said above. Other people have done these mods your doing and their proven.
But I want to know your results. I think the readers of this blog would be amazed about the things me in you have discussed in texts and phone calls. Definatly we share some kind of chemistry for some reason.
And we both have similar ideas and we also have different ideas about things. But the biggest thing is we both can talk and express your thoughts and discuss them.
And in the end we both are usually more knowledgeable about what we discussed.
So far a 100% win, win situation when we talk about making something happen.
Suppose to say our thoughts.
Gunfun1
You are exactly right as in the seemingly short two year we have known and been talking/texting with each other we have had disagreements as well as agreed many times but what is most important is we both realize the we bring varied and vast amount of experiences and knowledge to the table that is a benefit for both of us and others as well.
It is true friendship that allows us to discuss and express our differences as well as similarities with open and respectful dialogue so that we both benefit from our discussions and grow together as one.
I agree it is most definitely a win win situation and friendship that will go on from now on and can only be made better by the day we meet face to face and get to shoot together and share our enjoyment and friendship united in the hear future.
BD
Gunfun1
meant near future
BD
Buldawg
You said it. I’m sure we will have some fun when that day comes.
Gunfun1
Fun will be an understatement as we will be having a blast in more than just the sense of the word and the worst part will be saying our goodbyes as we both will not want the time to end .
BD
Buldawg
All true.
Chris USA
Read my comment below to Buldawg.
You know what I’m like also. I always say don’t be offended about what I say. But tell me what you think about what I say.
If you can’t honestly talk about something then there will never be no gain.
GF and BD,
Since weather, humidity changes all the time, I am not sure you can really chaulk it up to that. I would bet that it’s the same at one time or another in all 3 locations.
An obvious test would be to shoot crooked through the chrony on purpose (and still get a reading). I try real hard to do a good full rested set up with level and straight in mind. Indoors, 500W and lights out. 70 degrees.
Outa’ here,….Chris
Chris,USA
You may be correct in it may be the same at any particular time and place as well but what is puzzling to us is that both chronys read the same with the 22lr 710 fps rounds but not with air guns so that is the million dollar question.
BD
Chris USA
I already brought that up to Buldawg about different ways through the chrony and tryed it.
There is a little difference in fps but not 100 or more fps.
We thought about pellet size, thought about what range of velocity the eyes may see better at. If shadows trick the photo eyes. Does the pellet waist diameter throw false readings verses the solid side of a bullet.
The eye is suppose to break the sight path at the beginning of the projectile and end it the same way. I do know I have got false extremely high readings out of a let’s say 10 shot string. And yes even tryed changing to a new battery.
There is some reason that the chrony see’s the bullet different than the pellet for some reason. I thought maybe the pellet was wobbling comming out of the barrel and takes some movement to stabilize. Maybe the bullet since it has more initial pressure gets the bullet out of the barrel at a velocity that stabilizes that shape better and gives a truer velocity.
And as usual we are probably over thinking this and its all going to come down to shooting results no matter what the chrony says.
Again more ideas are welcomed.
GF1,
Yea,…the variables could be endless. The only pure test would be if you 2 had your chrony’s side by side. Mine is less than a year old, yours ?, and BD’s ? It’s possible that the eyes are newer and more sensative. Who knows…..
And oh,….by the way,….thank you for your “push” on me getting a chrony “way back” when I first got here. For anybody that tunes or just wants to check the “health” of thier airgun,…it’s truely an invaluable tool.
Chris USA
I did say for you to get a chrony didn’t I. I forgot about that.
And my chrony is getting on the old side I’m thinking. It’s got to be at least 6 years old. So maybe time is taking a toll on it???
SEMPER FIDELIS!!