by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Hatsan Gladius Long.
This report covers:
- Quiet
- A couple things
- High Power
- Baracuda Match 4.50mm
- JSB Exact Heavy
- Low power
- Medium power setting 4
- What to make of this?
- Trigger pull
- Accuracy
- Evaluation
We’re back with the Hatsan Gladius .177 long today for the velocity test. Hatsan advertises that this rifle gives up to 90 shots per fill. You may get that many, but not on full power. This is a hunting rifle and you want hunting rifle accuracy. For me that means keeping all your shots inside an inch which is the size of the kill zone on the smaller game the Gladius is designed to take. Now, when you throw distance into the equation things get confused very fast, so my way to simplify things is to say that 50 yards is the distance at which I would like to see one-inch groups.
Plinking, though, doesn’t require such accuracy and I’m sure that is what Hatsan has in mind when they say 90 shots per fill. You also need to know that the manual doesn’t mention the power adjustment, but it’s there on the rifle and I’ll test it for you today.
Quiet
I learned a lot from today’s test. For starters I learned that the Gladius is silenced very well. Given the enormous power of the rifle, I found it easy and not at all disturbing to shoot in my office on full power without hearing protection. It’s not silent by any means, but for the power it is very well-mannered. My cat, Punky, slept in the office the entire time I tested the rifle without complaint. It’s about the same level of sound as a powerful spring-piston rifle.
On the lowest power setting the noise is so low that the rifle could be used in tight suburban yards. You Gladius owners have to learn what works best for you.
A couple things
I told you in Part 1 that the safety sets automatically, even though the owner’s manual says it is manual. It comes on each time the rifle is cocked. You can also set it manually if you like. It is a manual safety that’s also automatic.
Next, there is no mention in the owner’s manual of the power adjustment knob. It’s on the rifle, though, and I will test it for you. Let’s look at it now. On the right side of the receiver is the power wheel with 6 settings. A button on the opposite side of the receiver must be pressed in to unlock the power wheel.
The power adjustment wheel has 6 settings. But it doesn’t rotate freely. You have to push a button on the opposite side of the receiver to unlock it.
This button (arrow) must be pushed in to unlock the power adjuster.
High Power
Okay, let’s see what this rifle can do. I will begin on power setting 6, which is as high as the rifle goes.
Baracuda Match 4.50mm
The first 10 H&N Baracuda Match pellets with 4.50mm heads averaged 1138 f.p.s. At a weight of 10.6 grains, this pellet generated an average 30.49 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle. Hatsan only claims 27 foot-pounds, so they are very conservative! The spread went from 1150 f.p.s. to 1126 f.p.s. — a spread of 24 f.p.s.
The velocity started falling off on the third shot in the string and continued downward steadily. I will shoot a group at 50 yards with this pellet, just to see how it does. There probably aren’t two magazines’ worth of shots at this power setting.
JSB Exact Heavy
For fun I shot a second magazine of 10 JSB Exact Heavy pellets. They averaged 1096 f.p.s. but the velocity was still falling steadily, so that’s not what the first magazine would have done. At that velocity this pellet produced 27.84 foot-pounds of energy — still higher than the Hatsan claim!
The spread went from 1117 f.p.s. on the first shot to 1071 f.p.s. on the last shot — a spread of 46 f.p.s. As the pressure drops the velocity gets less stable.
After these two magazines (20 shots) I fired one more Baracuda Match and got 1074 f.p.s. Clearly the rifle is low on air, though there was about 2500 psi in the gun when I filled the tank. Time to adjust the power
Low power
I set the power to 1 — as low as it will go. Using the same Baracuda Match pellets, the first 10 shots averaged 562 f.p.s. The high was 569 and the low was 551 f.p.s., for an 18 f.p.s. spread. The power with this pellet averaged 7.44 foot-pounds.
I then fired 40 blank shots to use up some air. Then I reloaded the magazine for shots 51 through 60. The average was 466 f.p.s. — nearly 100 f.p.s. slower than shots 1-10. So your plinking has to be at close range to get this many shots! Are there 90 shots per fill? Maybe. A lot depends on what you are doing.
Medium power setting 4
I thought by using a medium power setting that I would get more than one magazine at the same velocity. No dice! The velocity still dropped steadily, just as it had on high power. I do like the velocity range better though.
First 10 shots with the same Baracuda Match averaged 956 f.p.s., which is good for 21.52 foot-pounds. The high (first shot) was 974 and the low (last shot) was 936. The spread was 38 f.p.s. I then shot 10 blanks and then 10 more shots for record. These averaged 869 f.p.s. — 87 f.p.s. slower than the first 10. The high (second shot) was 893 and the low (shot number 7) was 852. The spread was 41 f.p.s. and the average energy was 17.78 foot-pounds.
What to make of this?
I’m not going to concern myself with the Gladius’ power band and constantly falling power. If it will group at 50 yards, I don’t care how broad the velocity spread is. And if it can’t — it doesn’t really matter, does it?
Trigger pull
The trigger is adjustable, of course. It came set to two stages with stage two breaking reasonably crisp at 4 lbs. 3.5 oz. I think I will leave it where it is for now.
The trigger failed to fire numerous times at the end of today’s session. I had to re-cock the gun numerous times to reset the trigger ever time it failed. That may just be an adjustment issue. I hope that’s all it is.
Accuracy
I think I will start shooting the Gladius at 25 yards indoors, to get the feel of the gun. That will give me time to adjust the stock and trigger as well as find the best pellet. In the long run it should save me some time and give me one additional report on this airgun.
Evaluation
The low noise of the Gladius was a surprise. So was the power adjustablity. The rifle is heavy, but pretty ergonomic, which offsets the weight a bit.
The trigger was the worst feature so far. Let’s hope it returns to normal in the next test.
Interesting test.
I have been following various threads on the forums about the Gladius, but all are in other calibers, but no one has mentioned the steady velocity drop.
I want one, but still am on the fence.
A question here, in firing the blank shots, doesn’t that waste more air per shot than firing with a pellet?
I mean the back pressure caused by the pellet has to account for something in the overall equation.
Ian
Ian,
If I am not mistaken, the back pressure can actually hold the valve open longer. That is one of the problems that can be encountered with the AirForce air rifles. If you try to push too much air through too small a caliber with them, the back pressure can hold the valve open and you have a tank dump.
Ian,
I believe RidgeRunner has it correct. I know it isn’t perfect. It’s just a lot faster than loading and firing 40 pellets for no reason, other than to get to shot number 51.
B.B.
Like I always say. I don’t care if a gun has a 100 fps velocity spread as long as the gun POI’s good enough for how I’m using.
I’m thinking the guns going to do good at 50 yards with the velocity on the higher power setting.
Will be waiting for the results from the accuracy test. Bet the extra weights going to help benchresting it too. I’m thinking it’s going to be a shooter.
GF1,
I think you are right about the 50-yard accuracy. Hatsan PCPs have always been accurate and I think this one will be as well.
B.B.
B.B.
You’ve said from the beginning that this Gladius is first and foremost a hunting rifle. Going along with what Gunfun1 just said about benchresting, could this Gladius possibly be used in benchrest competition at 25 to 50 yards?
Charles,
Well, yes it could, but benchrest today usually starts at 75 yards. For private use it would be fine, but to compete the Gladius will have to be a tackdriver.
We’ll see.
B.B.
Cstoehr
Might even make for a good feild target gun set on medium power. Some people like the heavier guns for that type of shooting too.
But again. All depends on how good of a shooter it is.
B.B.,
Nice testing with lots of data. I was glad to see you tested at both extremes of the power wheel. It for sure is doing something. Now familiar with the M-rod and it’s adjustments, I would suspect that the power knob is an air transfer port restrictor. It is curious that they can do that in just a 1/2 turn as opposed to the 4’ish that the M-rod requires.
Looking forward to the 50 yard. Hopefully the 25 grouping will deem it worthy of a 50 test.
Chris
This one isn’t quite my cup of tea. For me, it is just too big and bulky. When I think of a bull pup, the Edgun Lelya comes to mind. Something light and compact. The PRod with a collapsible stock might do nicely for me.
I am glad to see Hatsan offering the Gladius and the Bull Boss. They are actively pursuing the airgun market with offerings that are affordable and they have also been improving their quality.
RR,
Yes — I need to test one of the Ataman bullpups this year. And perhaps the Air Arms Galahad.
B.B.
B.B.
Would it be possible to regular this air rifle? Would that give you consistent power at the different power levels?
Or would that just make adjusting to the different power levels difficult to impossible?
Thanks
-Y
P.S. Any chance that you can interest Meopta in making air gun scopes?
Yogi,
I believe the Gladius could be regulated — maybe even with Hatsan’s new add-on regulator.
I used to own a Career 707 that was regulated and the reg did give me a lot more shots. I only wanted 30 foot-pounds and the reg, plus adjusting the power as I shot, made it possible to get close to 90 shots at 30 foot-pounds from 500cc of air at 3,000 psi.
B.B.
lattereughs like the rifle is in desperate need of a regulator. A 70 fps drop over 20 shots is quite a bit.
IMHO, In spite of the power I would not consider this a hunting rifle. The velocity would give a nice flat trajectory but at 4.5mm you would get “shoot through” on small game resulting in most of the energy going down range. Found that 650-750 fps to be best for .177 calibers.
Interesting that you chose a yardage and a kill-zone size then check to see if that is within the rifles effective range. I approach it the other way – for a given kill-zone size, I start at close range and increase the distance in 5 yard increments to determine the maximum effective range. For hunting, my maximum effective range (of hardware and the shooter) is where I can hit the kill-zone, shooting offhand (since I don’t bring a shooting bench when I go hunting 🙂 ), 8 out of 10 times.
My maximum “hunting range” considers the effective range and the energy required at that distance considering what game is being pursued (e.g. a rifle suitable of rabbits at 25 yards may only be suitable for ground hogs at 10 yards).
Sorry to ramble. The difference in approaches seem to be between Target/Hunting and a Hunting/Target perspective. I follow the latter… for every 100 pellets shot at paper I shoot 400 at small spinners. 🙂
B.B. Hope you have a chance to test a .22 caliber rifle.
Hank
Hank
Have you ever tryed those extendable shooting sticks.
I have one I use when I go out walking the feild or woods. It’s got the yoke at the top where you place the gun and rotates 360°. And the 2 legs open up with a strap that tethers them together. I can use it all the way from sitting on the ground to kneeling to fully standing. It colapses short enough so I can hang it from my belt loop while I’m walking. And the legs exstend quickly with flip over clamps when I need it.
I use to support my guns off of tree branches and such when I was a kid and didn’t think about how I was taking care of my gun. But now no way would I do that. So the bi-pod shooting stick is what I have used for some time now. So it helps take care of the gun and by far more steady than shooting free hand.
GF1
I learned to hunt in dense Quebec bush and there were always lots limbs/tree trunks (usually too many) to use as a rest if you have time – usually you only had a second or so to shoot and all the looking you did at trees was trying to find a clear channel through to the game before it disappeared 🙂 .
I would always cushion the gun on my hand or grab the limb and shoot off the crook of my thumb and wrist.
Your suggestion is a good one, I have a (very) heavy duty camera tripod with quick-adjust legs that might do if I converted it into a by-pod.
I do most of my shooting off hand at 1″ spinners I make out of a couple of fender washers and some coat-hanger – have them scattered all over the property, so I can snipe at them when I am out for a walk.
Hank
Hank
I use to do the washers from a string at the old house from the trees. Ain’t got no trees close by now at the new house. So that’s out. But I bend coat hangers in a square (U)and put them with the legs in the ground then a hook on it to gold a 1″ piece of angle iron with a hole drilled in one end. I have the point of the (V) pointing away from me. That way when I hit it. It sends the pellet to the middle then down. Less chance for ricochetes that way.
And that camera tri-pod might work real good with the 3 legs. And yep that’s what I started doing to was holding the limb then placing the fun on my arm. But once I got my shooting stick it’s how I do it now. And I even use it as a walking stick at times too when out in the feild or woods. So it’s fully extended and in my off trigger hand. So it’s ready in split second to shoot off of. I carry the gun with hand that operates the trigger. So pretty quick that way.
Suppose to say to hold a 1″ piece of angle iron. Not (gold).
GF1,
Friday off,…. again! 😉 Pondering testing. I figure a good one might be to do a 3500 fill on the M-rod and shoot the Cuda’s in 5 shot groups and keep shooting to see if the groups improve over the declining air pressure. If I see the groups get better between, say group 3 and 4, then that would give me a fill range that might work better with them, What do you think? I would chrony to back up, but it seems that it would work to see if they will ever “get it together”.
Chris USA
Plus the Barracudas are harder than the JSB’s. So it may take a good 30 or more shots to get the barrel to come in.
Plus try a few drops of the silicone oil in the barrel.
GF1,
Good test parameters though? Find the fps range that they shoot best in? I figured that as the fps dropped, that the groups will tighten up at some point, if they ever will. It sounds quick and easy and a way to get them “nailed down”. I figured 40 or 50 yards to do the test. Yea?
Ok on the 30,…. I figured to factor that in.
Chris USA
Ok and have you tryed a few drops of oil in the barrel yet?
GF1,
Yup, 1 time. So you sayin’ the Cuda’s need some oil? They load/ push the same as the JSB’s from what I can tell. The HN’s all load real tight in the TX and LGU.
By the way,… lookin’ into arrow testing the M-rod. 5/16″ brake line or SS tubing at 5/16″. Specs. are 5/16 OD and .273″ ID and .020″ walled. Any issues that you see? Of course, a 1/2″ step down adapter would be needed,…. I am figuring a 1/2 bushing/sleeve tapped for a 3/8″ compression fitting down on the 5/16″ tubing. Full length alum. shaft arrow of the correct size.
Thoughts? Anything going to “blow up” on me? 🙂
Chris still looking for arrow shooters? Check this out; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR_MILmjvfs
Ted always cracks me up, guess it is just an advert for the Crosman Pioneer air bow but still it is fun.
Chris USA
Don’t think your going to blow up.
Now maybe the arrow your making or something else might blow up. But I don’t think you will.
😉
Mike in Atl.,
Hope you see this, out of room to reply. Very!!! cool and yes they are funny.
What is cool is the power. Wow! Thank you very much.
5 stars and a must watch. Thanks, Chris
Hey Chris, sounds like you are having a hoot with all this airgun stuff – you have me smiling! 🙂
I was wondering if the Crosman Pioneer air bow (which I presume is optimized for launching arrows) releases a larger pulse of air over a longer duration than a regular rifle. Thinking about the huge difference in mass between pellets and arrows.
You do realize that changing the size of the bore will change the velocity/pressure. Check out Bernoulli’s Principle, this link talks about fluids but it also applies to airflow (especially high speed air flow)…
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/pber.html
Hank,
You may remember way back that I made one out of a real nice paint roller handle that extends with just the push of a thumb. I added holes between the holes that were already there. I have them at every inch. I drilled and tapped the top and have an open top pipe ring in the top. You are quite handy. Give them a look. The one I made is better than anything you could buy. Shur-Line, red and black with silver aluminum. Looks very sleek as well.
Chris
Hank,
Thank you for the below link. I will check out. I had thought about that. I was going to run it past Buldawg for his thoughts. To me, a 5/16 barrel, with as big as ID as possible without sacrificing too much barrel stiffness would be the goal. A lot of stuff has to happen and then it all has to mate,… so we will see. I got some buddy’s that do their own arrows and can fletch and glue stuff. Plus, getting the balance all good is a factor. Without a nock at the rear, that throws things off….. but I have a remedy.
I will have to dig out my notes and re-familiarize myself with them. I remember you were quite the help at the time of the 880 and bolt testing.
Chris
Hank,
Me again,…. yes,…. some adjustments would be in order to facilitate a full/max air dump. Even if there was some waisted air. The M-rod has three adjustments, so I am sure I can max. it in pretty short order.
I am thinking the scope hold over is going to be pretty crazy. I hope it is still “on screen”.
Chris
That was interesting, first word of the post got garbled. That sentence should read:
“Sounds like the rifle is in desperate need of a regulator.”
In the ‘low power’ section you accidentally put “I then fired 40 blank shots to udse up some air”. Great article though, for a fairly budget bullpup gun the gladius looks pretty interesting. Sounds like it really wants a regulator though, with small bore rifles consistency seems to be even more important than outright power. Hopefully its an accurate rifle.
Auronotcs,
Corrected. Fat fingers. 😉
Thanks,
B.B.
B. B.,
I am way too late on this…
My sincere condolences to you on Edith’s passing. I have been away from the blog for a while and recently found out about this. What a beautiful tribute you wrote about her, giving those of us who had never met her an insight to what an amazing woman she was. Thank you for sharing these blogs and again I am sorry for being late on this.
Jeff
Jeff_290,
Thank you.
B.B.
I’m pulling for this rifle because of it’s cool name. 🙂 But I don’t see how you can retain accuracy in .177 with those high velocities.
Here’s a story I recently heard that seems appropriate. It deals with a woman in Florida where alligators have started pulling young children into the water. The woman is deathly afraid of reptiles, and she woke up one morning to find an iguana sprawled across the top of her car. She claims it was 6 feet from nose to tail which seems a little unlikely but possible. In a panic and having to get to work, she called up a taxi company to get a ride, but the company said that they had no taxis available. Almost incoherent with fright, the woman screamed, “But he’s still out there. He’s out there.”
This gave the taxi company pause. Who knows if they were worried about liability or they were showing genuine compassion. The receptionist huddled with co-workers over the phone to assess what to do. As they probed the situation and asked questions, they finally figured out that the source of fear was an iguana, and they started laughing! They told her that they thought she was talking about a stalker. Now in much better humor, they undertook to advise the woman about her predicament. At this point, perhaps because of rising temperatures, the iguana had moved underneath the car so that only his tail was sticking out like a dragon. The taxi company advised distracting the iguana with fruit. So, the woman rolled a few oranges and cantaloupes his way. The iguana was unresponsive. She rolled a few right into him. Maybe it was the type of fruit or maybe the iguana was finally getting irritated, but a fruit rolled to the driver’s side finally caught his attention and lured him out. Exactly at that moment, the woman darted into the passenger’s side of the car and roared out of the driveway.
I don’t know if an airgun could have taken care of the matter more effectively in the end, but I suppose it would have been faster.
Matt61
Matt,
High velocities and no accuracy? Have you forgotten this test:
/blog/2011/12/pellet-velocity-versus-accuracy-test-part-11/
B.B.
B.B.,
I had to go looking for this and in spite of a few necessary distractions I found it and was going to post it now.
I think our issue may be that adjusting the harmonics is not so simple on most guns. We then go in search of the ones that have the adjustments built in.
~ken
Ken,
Harmonics are of great interest to me. I have not played with them much, but it seems that any firearm, or airgun with the barrel exposed,…. the harmonics can be manipulated with collars that adjust fore and aft. If I understand it correctly, the ideal is to have the bullet,… or pellet,… leave the barrel at the “neutral” point of the barrel “whip”.
Is that the “harmonics” that you are talking about?
Chris
Chris,
I believe we are talking about the same thing. B.B. was working with the Whiscombe harmonic optimized tuning system (HOTS) that was part of the rifle. I believe I understand what you are speaking of, but I don’t know how to implement it. But then, I do have a low frustration tolerance.
~ken
Ken,
Yes, the Whiscombe was one of my favorite articles. The hard part is finding any kind of barrel that an adjustable weight can be applied to. A split collar of the correct size would be the most applicable tool. Too many are shrouded and have muzzle baffle assemblies that are non removable. Plus, the barrel would have to be fully unsupported from the breech to get it to work. Let it “whip”,…. then control the “whip”.
To me, that would be a nice sales pitch,… that has some real merit in application. Would anyone really fool with it though? Too many want a “tuned” air rifle straight from the box,.. for 100$, even 200$. That ain’t happening.
Chris
Chris,
I agree with B.B. Good explanation.
~ken
Chris,
You stated the value of optimum harrmonics perfectly.
B.B.
I was thinking of the speed of sound as a threshold where the pellet gets destabilized from the unusual aerodynamics. I forget exactly what this threshold is in fps. I believe that the 1500 fps pellets were definitely above it. But I believe it was around 1000 fps. My 900 fps B30 is just below it, and the highest velocity in that test was 772 which falls under. I would think the Gladius velocities would be especially destabilizing for .177.
Matt61
Matt,
That was an 11-part report that I linked you to. In the earlier 10 reports I showed that vibration and not velocity was the factor that affected accuracy the most. The rifle was accurate at over 1100 f.p.s. and inaccurate at under 900 f.p.s., depending on how the HOTS was adjusted.
B.B.
Ah yes, I don’t believe that I read every installment, and I don’t have time to read it all now. But I got curious and looked at the speed of sound and in feet per second it is supposed to be 1125.33. So it is possible that a pellet could go faster than 1100 fps as in the earlier test without encountering the barrier although not much faster. The published velocities of the Gladius are pretty well over this barrier. The sound barrier is known to affect bullets with all of their mass and velocity, so one would suppose that it would have an even bigger effect on pellets. And the Gladius has no HOTS. Still, I always favor experiment over theory, so bring on the accuracy tests.
Matt61
Matt61,
“experiment over theory”,…. always best. 😉
Matt 61
The actual speed of sound depends on temperature. There’s a formula for it. As far as best accuracy you want the bullet or pellet to be either well above or well below that speed all the way to the target. For .22 rimfire, target ammunition is intended to be subsonic ( the Winchester 52 had an extra long barrel so the additional friction would slightly slow rounds that were a little too fast). You don’t want the bullet to start out supersonic and somewhere between muzzle and target slow to subsonic because exactly where it would happen is unpredictable from shot to shot. The flight characteristics of the two modes are very different. Also, in transonic or supersonic flight the bullet’s wake is much larger which makes it more wind sensitive.
Hope this will help u plan ur accuracy tests. It’s neat to be able to vary the mv!
Fido3030
Fido3030
I agree with that. A bullet or for us air gun pellet shooters, pellets chrony a given fps at the barrel then are going slower as the distance increases. Pellet weight and design come into play also of how the pellet slows down over time.
So if you find a pellet that hits or groups good at different distances its probably because the pellet is still moving at a adequate speed for that design or shape of the pellet I should say.
Some pellets tend to be more aerodynamic in design and help the pellet maintain velocity for a longer amount of time.
I think that is exactly why some pellets can have a big spread in velocity when you chrony but can still produce good groups. That’s why when I see BB test a gun like the Hatsan he’s testing today and the velocity drops on each shot kind of significantly it doesn’t bother me. Like I said before. If a pellet gun has a wide velocity spread and it still POI’s good than that’s good. What does it matter if the velocity drops.
And I think when a gun does still POI good its because the pellet is staying in its usable velocity area better than other pellet designs that show a small spread at the muzzle when chronying but give bad groups.
All I know is that I have been surprised many times with airguns and pellet performance. It’s best not to think about what the chrony says and just shoot the gun and see what is said on the paper.
What other way is there other than shoot and see what the paper says?
Gunfun1
I agree. I’ve had guns that had very little difference in velocity from shot to shot but just wouldn’t group. And I’ve had shotguns with lousy patterns that were deadly on clay targets. (That’s why I seldom pattern anymore.)
Theory is nice but in shooting there are just too many variables. That’s why i love my machine rest. It eliminates the biggest…me!
Fido3030
Fido3030
Then throw in the thought of how accurate do you need to be for the type of shooting you do. Of course the most accurate is always nice.
When hunting or pest eliminating it all depends on the size of a kill zone that has to be hit. So that gun being used needs to be able to shoot accurately and with the correct energy for the particular animal or pest that is encountered.
Then there is plinking. Things don’t need to be as critical. But…sufficient accuracy and energy is still needed.
Sometimes I think maybe people beat theirselfs up trying to shoot the best group possible out of their gun. I know I have been like that throughout time. I like a accurate gun no doubt. But like you said there is so many variables including the shooter that all contribute to accuracy.
I think the search for accuracy will always be something I’m after. But it don’t happen overnight. You know what I mean. Too many things to test and try before the best accuracy is found for a given gun.
Gunfun1
Right again! So often i’ve got hung up on shooting tiny groups when they’re not needed. I shoot a lot of movable targets and spinners now. My current favorite is pieces of grey pipe insulating foam about the size and color of a squirrel’s head. Getting ready for the real thing if they don’t quit chewing my garage. Don’t need <1/4 inch groups!
Fodo3030
Fido3030
Yep and the more a person shoots the more you will find can be wrong.
I have 4 main airguns I shoot now. Got them pretty well dailed in. So luckily I have been just enjoying shooting them. Kind of nice to get them out every weekend and just shoot. No more mods or tests needed. Just enjoying them. It feels good when you finally make it to that point. I’m liking it that’s for sure.
Gunfun1
I have not yet reached that happy state. I still like to tinker and mod. Doing some interesting experiments now with sound. I bought a couple of precision meters. One currently selling for $4500 but i got used for a tiny fraction of that but it works perfectly.
I have a book “Report 1896” of government tests of silencers used in WWII plus lots of very technical information on sound measurement, bullet flight noise, etc. it’s also online. It’s NOT a construction manual and i have absolutely NO intention of making one. But i did wonder how they sounded. With my new meter i can follow their protocol using a 1377 shooting premier lights as a sound source. Ok, they list the OSS/CIA Hi Standard .22 spy pistol at 113 DB 5 meters to the side.
A 1377 gives that at 8 pumps!! (5 meters to the side.) Not very quiet!!! Not like the movies. So now i know!
I build hi-fi tube amplifiers so I’m be using my new toy to analyze speakers etc. Which is why i bought it in the first place.
Fido3030
That’s pretty cool. I would like to have something I can measure sound with. Just so I know. Would be nice to try different weight pellets and record sound difference and also see how putting different tunes on a air gun changes the guns report.
Sounds like fun stuff to me. 🙂
Gunfun1
Radio Shack sells a digital meter. Not very accurate in absolute numbers but you can record results and see if a mod makes louder or softer.
Fido3030
Fido3030
If the Radio Shack one ain’t too exspensive I may just get one. Thanks.
Gunfun1
Might be useful for pcp’s to measure pressure drop from shot to shot. I’ve used sound meters for CO2 guns to show when pressure starts to nosedive before it’s detectable by ear.
Fido3030
Gunfun1
The Radio Shack i’ve used is #33-2055.
Lots on ebay
Fido3030
Fido3030
Thanks for the part number. I will check it out.
And that’s interesting that that the sound would change that much on the Co2 guns. So the sound of a co2 gun is pretty consistent then I guess. I know I use the sound of a PCP gun to help determine the tune.
Where running out of room here though on the replies. But I’m going to check out that part number you gave me. Thanks.
I’ve been away from the blog for a very long while. To BB, my sincerest condolences. I wish I had responded sooner.
Sadly, I couldn’t even remember my password.. Noticing a lot of comments about age-related maladies and it is nice to feel included. Struggling with shoulder impingement syndrome, this is “sorely” testing my love of springer’s. I still haven’t jumped to PCP’s. Got sidetracked with firearms and even .22 lr club shooting. Eventually I came back, so it’s great to hear the latest from the blog. I love that there are still so many familiar names and so many new ones. Curious whether Matt61 is still shooting his IZH 61, and if it’s on its original mainspring… I’ve totally lost track of my rough shot count with mine – but it’s still original. A real problem when a gun is so easy to shoot and you have about 10 magazines. Picked up the .30 cal Hats an springer on a whim, now my fourth Turkish gun (Wesley Alec to, Stoeger Cougar 9mm, Wesley Typhoon – definitely a mixed bag!) and have to say I am very surprised by the quality of the gun. It’s the polar opposite of the IZH in terms of shooting ease. A monster to cock, very heavy, and the pellets leave the muzzle around only 500 fps. Low reward for the amount of effort. But very well-made. Beautiful stock, nice metal finishing (except for the cheesy safety). Not very familiar with Hatsan guns, but this is the prettiest I’ve seen. Really like the trigger too. Pretty accurate as an off-hand shooter. I’m shooting it well – probably due to the expense of the pellets and my need to concentrate on each and every shot. It’s nice to see plate targets get visibly moved down-range, not to mention the satisfying “clank.” Fantastic garden gun so far.
So what you’ve proven beyond a shadow of a doubt is the gun as delivered is in VERY POOR tune. Why even bother to shoot for group size. We all know that with a declining velocity each pellet will hit lower than the previous (assuming it doesn’t shotgun so bad the groups start out as a random 4″ dia group to begin with). Again… If you’re shooting anything more than a 3%-4% ES why bother?
Jr_Explorer
Why a 3-4% spread? Why not a 2-3% spread? Or 5-6% spread?
Why is a 3-4% spread the magic number to make pellets group good?
And what about distance. As we shoot at increased distances should we want better than 3-4%?
Jr_Explorer,
Why bother? I do it because I have been surprised a great many times. What I thought was right turned out not to matter at all.
So I test. Then we will all know for sure.
B.B.
B.B., as a cat rescue person, I would like to see a pic of Punky woven into this blog. like perhaps sitting next to one of the targets in the accuracy test portion? =)
Thedavemyster,
Here you go:
/blog/2009/12/healthways-plainsman-bb-gun-part-3/
B.B.