Lov 21 CO2 pistol: Part 1

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Lov 21
The Lov 21 is a CO2 target pistol made in the Czech Republic. It doesn’t look like much, but people speak well of it in Canada and Europe.

A history of airguns

This report covers:

  • Findlay 2017
  • Still in production
  • First impression
  • Crudeness
  • Accuracy

This day was always coming, and today it’s here. The day I review an airgun I have never seen or even heard of. You won’t find it in the Blue Book of Airguns, either.  The Lov 21 single shot .177 caliber pellet pistol is from Lovena-Druzstvo in Prague. That’s in the Czech Republic.

And, with that, I have told you most of what I know about this air pistol. Oh, there is lots more to tell, but we are going to have to discover it together!

Findlay 2017

Remember the Findlay airgun show I wrote about earlier this year? Do you recall that Pyramyd Air was selling the remnants of an airgun dealership they had purchased? This pistol came from that dealer.

The price marked on the box (yes, it was new in the box and they had several) was $120.95. Looking at the gun, I would say that price is the reason so many were left over, because upon close examination it appears to be a $40 air pistol at best. I gave half that for it — just to have another odd duck to tease you with.

When Tyler Patner told me about this pistol he was sure I knew all about it, and of course I went along. Have to keep up the charade, you know? When I first saw it, I thought it must be a variation of a Drulov I hadn’t seen.

The gun’s appearance does remind me of the Drulov DU-10 target pistol Pyramyd Air sold many years ago. But that was a semiautomatic repeater (There — I just remembered another semiauto pellet pistol! Yesterday I couldn’t remember any besides the Desert Eagle.) and the Lov 21 is a single shot. I saw some speculation on a Canadian airgun forum of that same general similarity to the Drulov.

Still in production

In my research I found the pistol for sale on a UK airgun website and several other European sites, so it’s still being produced. And the UK retail price of 90 pounds works out to around $116, so the price marked on the box is legit.

I’m treating it as an obsolete model, though, because I think here in the U.S. it would be difficult to find a new one for sale. It certainly isn’t being sold by mainstream U.S. airgun dealers.

First impression

It really looks like the maker saw a Crosman Mark I or Mark II and tried to reproduce it in plastic. It looks so similar, cocks the same way and has an adjustable rear target sight. The grips are even contoured as ambidextrous target grips.

Crosman Mark I
Crosman’s Mark I/II target pistol was wonderful for its era (1960s to the ‘80s). Is the Lov 21 a modern copy?

Lov 21 cocking
Like the Crosman Mark I/II, the Lov has cocking “wings” on either side of the receiver. Pull them forward to cock the gun. There is just one power level.

Lov 21 rear sight
The rear sight adjusts in both directions. There are no detents and the windage is a push/pull arrangement with screws on both sides.

The trigger is shockingly light. It feels like a direct sear, which gives me some concerns about safety. I will test for that in part 2. There is no adjustment, so you get whatever the gun has to offer, but all the reports I read say the trigger is light and crisp. So, this one is not unique.

Speaking of safety, the Lov 21 has none. It’s all up to the shooter!

The pistol is all-plastic outside. The color is black all over and the finish is smooth to the extent of being slippery.

In the owner’s manual, which is written in the Czech language with only a poorly-copied German translation, they show a different type of CO2 cartridge that appears to have an attachment screwed on its end. That would mean that the end of the cartridge would have to be threaded, which our 12-gram cartridges are not. The “piercing cap” has a blunt post inside that looks more like it pushes open a valve (in the screwed-on portion?) than it actually pierces a CO2 cartridge. I made it pierce the cartridge, but it sure didn’t want to.

Lov 21 manual 1
In this manual drawing we see something (arrow) that appears to be screwed to the end of a CO2 cartridge.

Lov 21 manual 2
This drawing shows the cartridge separate from the gun. That “thing” is attached to the neck.

Lov 21 inside cap
And there is the piercing “pin” inside the cap. See why I think there must be something else? That flat pin was not designed to pierce a CO2 cartridge by itself.

A UK website says to expect velocities of 135 meters per second, which converts 443 f.p.s. That’s right where you want a target pistol to be.

Crudeness

The bolt has no o-ring. It’s just a plain pin that slides back and forth. It also does not rotate to lock in place, like I would expect. The Crosman Marks I/II have both things. Do you need them? This test will find out.

Continuing along the crudeness line, the rear sight adjusts in both directions without detents. That’s disconcerting on a target gun. Also, in another strange Crosman Mark I/II similarity, the windage adjusts by two opposing push/pull screws. Yes, I think someone saw a Crosman pistol when this airgun was designed.

Accuracy

If the targets I see on the internet are real, we can expect great accuracy from the Lov 21. If it is that accurate (quarter-inch 5-shot groups at 10 meters?) and if the trigger is safe, then the high price is more than justified, and I will have discovered something I never thought would be built — a Crosman Mark I/II target pistol in the 21st century!

This will be a fun test, because it’s not often I get to test an airgun I never heard of! Everything will be new to me.

134 thoughts on “Lov 21 CO2 pistol: Part 1




  1. Ran across a different version of the Embark that was recently reviewed. It’s called the Synergy Syntarg. Seems it’s available in the UK, in .177 and .22. No idea if it’ll be available in the US. The stock is the same design but in matte black instead of that green color.


  2. BB,

    That thing may be a valve on a refillable cartridge. Wild guess.

    I think you made a great buy for $20. This should be interesting.

    Do you think PA will show up at the Midwest show this weekend to finish selling off that collection?


    • RR

      We will be there. We have three tables and LOTS more guns coming with. I actually will have another Lov 21 pistol there if anyone is interested. Among a smattering of other stuff….and TONS of pellets.

      Hope to see you there, please introduce yourself.



      • Tyler @PA why don’t you publish a used gun list like Beeman did years ago on this stuff like pellets and guns that you buy off other dealers that liquidate so the ones that cannot make shows? Like an as is no refund, first come first serve deal or auction? Seems to me that it would be not much different than your open box stuff which is one of a kind stuff? Even a shot at the left overs would be welcome, especially from a respected retailer like PA and not some unknown like on E-bay or the auction sites.


        • Robert

          I’d really like to do something like that, but it’s very hard for us to do with the website. It monopolizes a lot of employees time to get something like that off the ground. Especially because folks will want pictures. These kinds of acquisitions don’t happen too often, and this is one of the few that I’ve been around for that we actually took on inventory that was not current enough for us to list online.
          And besides, it gives me an excuse to get out of the office and go to these shows! Which I enjoy a lot.

          Thanks


          • How about the “Josh”s Basement ” which seems to have gone away? I would think that pellets wouldn’t require pics. As to pictures, I have bought several vintage used air guns from one of your competitors that used the NRA style ratings to discribe the product and was happy to take to risk even without photographs. One time they even sent the wrong gun , but a quick phone call settled the deal and I bought that one too. Too bad, wish you could get something going at PA like that.


      • Tyler, perhaps you could check your remaining Lov 21 and see if you have those adapters. My question is how is BB going to check this pistol if he can’t fill it with C02 ?




    • I want to attend an airgun show but none are scheduled for the area that I’m aware of. Maybe next year…

      BTW, is the $30.00 “Early Bird” admission something that’s commonly done at airgun shows? I haven’t been in a while but I never saw that w/PB gun shows.





            • BB
              You wouldn’t believe what I seen at car swap meets. People take the time to get the things they want to the show and set up for sale. Mind you alot of work. Car parts for the most part weigh more than guns and gun parts and such. And do what their suppose to like paying the fees and getting stuff set up at the proper times.

              You wouldn’t believe how many people I seen walk out the gates with bc stuff before the show even started.

              It don’t only happen at air gun shows.




      • Hi there – semes that more people from our region where the pistols were made were lurking in the forum 🙂
        That “something” at the end of CO2 cartridge is indeed a “refillable/resealable end cap”. The cardridge used originaly in these pistols were old 8g CO2 “sparklets” used to make sparkling water in your own bottle at home. You would then take empty cartridges for refill – in the factory the “collar thing” would be removed, the cartridge filled, new piercable “sheet metal insert” fitted. I think the collar is threaded, but I did never have enough force at my disposal to remove it.
        In a pack of 10 you would sometimes find one that did not seal well and would be empty when you received it 🙂 Similar to the older crossmann ones you mentioned in the blogs.
        The “adaptor” itself is just piece of metal to offset the length of small co2 bulb. No threads, no nothing, just a piece of round stock – with some shaping to fit the pistol better if you are lucky. So if you use the small ones, you just put the adaptor before the CO2 capsule so the top/neck of the cartridge is always same height – regardles if you use 8g or 12g. The adaptor usually falls out from the reservoir when the capsule is removed.
        While I do not own the Lov 21, I do have Drulov DU-5 (5 shot repeater) with identical system. These could be also run as bulk fill – there was different “end cap” for the pistol – without piercing needle, but with valve to facilitate filling form old 0,5 kg CO2 bottles.


        • H3PO4,

          Welcome to the blog.

          As I tell everyone, there are over one-hundred thousand readers of this blog worldwide. That’s why I try not to use slang and jargon when I write. It’s hard enough to translate English — it doesn’t need to be made more difficult.

          I think a few things are missing from the box of the gun I got. My Drulov DU-10 had a better piercing pin, though I did bend it. And I have one more thing to show people next time that has to do with piercing.

          And thanks for the explanation of how these things work!

          B.B.


          • BB

            Over 100,000 viewers! I continue to be in awe that you read every post from viewers. You post a new blog daily in the wee hours of morning where you live. I’m guessing you don’t require much sleep time. The rest of us are just lucky to have you so we can look forward each day for the next blog. Just hoping you are still doing this for many years in the future.

            I can hardly wait to find out if the Lov 21 puts them in one hole.

            Decksniper


          • Well… if you have one from DU-10 you should be set to go. It uses same technology, dimensions and also the threads are the same as far as I know. Give it a gentle try – it should work. Concerning the piercing pins – the older ones bent and broke easily, newer version is square and hollow – and more sturdy. These can be still sourced here from time to time – people used to buy extra ones – because of the seals in these. They used to swell with co2 – so onece you spent a co2 cartridge you could pull it out – but usually not replace it with new one as the o-ring was swallen 10% bigger – it would not fit. So wor a few “pennies” we wuld buy one extra to switch them with cartridges…

            It would be usefull to see the oposite side of the end cap – from the photo I cant tell if it is the piercing one, or the one with valve to be used for bulk fill..


  3. B.B.,

    I typed in the Model, the caliber and the name and came up with 3 videos on you tube. The gun appears to come with 2 caps, one for 12 gram and one for 8 gram Co2 cartridges.

    I could link them here, but there will not be much left to report on,.. other than shooting it.

    It is amazing that it is not listed in the Blue Book,.. since it appears to have been around awhile. Congratulations! You have quite a unique find and you got it at a real bargain. I do think that 120’ish is a bit much though for what it is.

    Chris


    • There were a few models made in the “Lovena druzstvo” which was basicaly a small arms/airgun factory. For what i know the guns are no longer produced – the factory now produces custom springs. But there still may be “old new stock”.
      There were several intersting models out there. In our country Lov 21 as entry-level target gun for those who could not afford the TAU Brno models 5 or 7. There is also Lov 2 which is “just a toy” (todays airsoft pistols have more power and accuracy), then the Drulov DU-10 – 5 shot semi-auto repeater with linear tubular magazine (it came in 2 variants – as Condor rifle or Eagle pistol).
      Even here in our region (these were mady less than 3 hours driving from my home) these are not well known – outside o the airgunners comunity – so I would not bet that many of these are to be found in the Blue Book.


      • H3PO4,

        Thank you! I had hoped one of our European readers would tell us more about this curious airgun. From what you say, it’s not well known in Europe, either! I expected I was going to hear from several UK readers and discover I was the last person to find out about what everyone else knew so well.

        I had a DU-10 several years ago and liked it a lot. But I have to cycle through airguns to get to see as many as possible, so I sold that one.

        Your comments are one of the positives of this blog, because nobody can know everything. I’m learning just like everyone else!

        Thanks again,

        B.B.


      • H3PO4,

        Thank you for the added information. The one in the one video I saw had 2 caps and the fellow picked up the appropriate cap for each C02 cartridge. It is always a real treat to have people in other parts of the World post a comment.



  4. B.B.,

    What a cool looking air pistol! To my eyes the grip is reminiscent of the S&W 78G and the overall profile similar to the Slavia APP 661, both among my favorite CO2 pistols.

    Michael


  5. B.B.,

    I have seen photos online of the part highlighted in the fifth image, some seeming to suggest that it is a part of the CO2 cartridge.

    If Carel is reading, perhaps he can chime in.

    Michael


  6. B.B.

    “(There — I just remembered another semiauto pellet pistol! Yesterday I couldn’t remember any besides the Desert Eagle.)”

    Surely you haven’t forgotten the Beretta PX4 and Gamo PT85 semi-auto blowback pellet pistols, have you? Or do you not consider the PX4 and PT85 to be true semi-auto pistols because of their rotary magazines?


    • Charles,

      Those pistols use blowback to cock the hammer, but the trigger advances the rotary magazine. The Umarex Desert Eagle’s rotary clip (as I understand it, a true clip) it rotated by gas, unlike the other pellet pistols (1911, 92fs, C225, etc.) in the Umarex line which use the same rotary clip but employ the trigger mechanism to turn the clip.

      The Desert Eagle, like the Crosman 600, are true multi-shot, CO2, semiauto air pistols. Can’t think of another.

      Michael.


      • Michael,

        Do you actually own the Umarex Magnum Research Desert Eagle pellet pistol and can you confirm that the rotary magazine is advanced by the CO2 blowback mechanism?

        I don’t have the Desert Eagle so I can’t verify that myself. What I did do was to re-watch Paul Capelo’s Airgun Reporter review video, but he didn’t say what mechanism, trigger or blowback, advances the rotary magazine.

        Then I searched B.B.’s previous blog reviews for the Desert Eagle and found these statements:

        “Blowback means the slide comes back with every shot, cocking the hammer as it goes. That lowers the trigger-pull weight needed to fire the gun. The 8-shot circular magazine will still be advanced by the trigger, so I’m not expecting a pull as light as the Crosman 600, but it should beat all guns that are double-action only.”

        By that statement, the Desert Eagle works the same as all of the other Umarex semi-auto style pellet pistols with the trigger advancing the rotary magazine.

        If there is new data demonstrating that the Desert Eagle blowback actually does advance the rotary magazine, and not the trigger, I’d like to see a report of that data.


        • Charles,

          I own a Desert Eagle and yes, the rotary magazine is advanced by the action of the slide blowing back. For that matter, the Crosman Nighthawk also works that way, but Crosman made the trigger DAO, so all the advantage is lost.

          B.B.


        • Charles,

          I do indeed have the full-size Umarex Desert Eagle, and yes, it is genuine semi-auto in the strictest sense. I also have an Umarex Colt 1911A1 and Umarex Beretta 92FS (both in faux stainless :^). The trigger pull on the D.E. is much lighter and crisper than the other two, and one can feel the clip moving in the Colt and Beretta but not with the D.E.

          Furthermore, the D.E. has the fewest number of shots per 12 gram Powerlet than of any CO2 gun in my collection, current or past (all together a couple hundred air guns), despite it “holding” gas perfectly. I have always believed that is because it is true semiauto revolver.

          Michael



      • B.B.,

        In my response to Charles, above, I wrote that my Umarex Desert Eagle is a “true semiauto revolver.”

        That jogged my memory out of the ol’ cobwebs to another true semiautomatic revolver, albeit not an airgun, the Webley-Fosbery Automatic Revolver. The way my mind and obsessions work mean that now I must watch The Maltese Falcon for the umpteenth time this weekend! (Poor me. ;^)

        The reason why can be our private joke, unless another here knows the film well. And no, it isn’t because the Fosbery “is the stuff dreams are made of.”

        Michael




      • B.B.,

        You probably already know this, but in case you do not, and in case you have an 8 gram CO2 air gun, 8 gram bulbs are made in large supply and are affordable in bulk online, now that vintage cocktails and home bartending have become the rage again. Many a 30-40-year-old is discovering the wonderful effervescence of a home sparkling water charger.

        I expect backgammon to make a comeback next. ;^)

        Michael


  7. Hi BB
    The piercing pin on this pistol looks to be identical to the piercing pins on the Tau Brno pistol and rifle set that I have from the early 1980’s. Both the pistol and rifle came with 2 co2 caps each with what looks to be the identical piercing pin. The reason for 2 caps was the seals absorbed co2 and after each use they had to degas before being used again. I have never experienced any problems then or now with piercing co2 cartridges. Both guns also had bulk capabilities useing the 125 gram gas bottles which I filled from a 10 lb co2 tank. I only used cartridges when I knew I would not be shooting more than 60 shots.
    Another interesting fact was the manual clearly stated “DO NOT USE OIL ON THE SEALS OR CO2 CARTRIDGE CAP”!!
    After owning this gun for more than 30 years with moderate useage I have yet to replace any seals. I still have the 2 spare seal kits that came with each gun.
    Cheers
    Dave



      • B.B.,

        In case you are interested, the bolt is tensioned with a spring and ball bearing. It can be accessed by flipping up the rear sight. The bolt also slides back when the gun is fired from the gas pressure. It would be interesting to fire it over a chrony,.. while at the same time holding pressure on the bolt. From the looks of the video,.. it would (have to) up the fps reading. A bolt that blows back upon firing makes no sense at all.

        Chris




          • B.B.,

            Perhaps it was. Maybe that ball bearing and spring was not adjusted or missing.

            The video’s were almost bizarre in in a sense. A couple opened with about a minute of various firearms being fired full auto. That was then followed by a military gent in uniform, singing, in a fake car with a bunch of frolicking ladies in the backseat. Oh yea,… the momentary images of a mirrored disco ball too. The basement/room looked like a place where bad things happen. The sound of semi and full auto fire can be heard in the background throughout one video.

            As for the shooting,.. I can say that I did not see anything impressive. Perhaps yours will do great. It is brand new after all.

            Chris


  8. Hi BB
    It must be the material the seals and “O” rings are made from. Maybe the guns I have are older. The pistol is similar to but nowhere near the same as the Chameleon. Who knows how long these guns where in storage in warehouses in Europe and Canada before I got my hands on them so long ago
    After shooting a 12 gram cartridge the seals in the co2 cap are noticeably a little puffed up and as I said per the instruction manual I have never oiled either of them and they still work fine on the original seals.
    Cheers
    Dave


    • Dave
      That just might be a good thing you don’t lubricate. Over luberacating can be just as bad as under lubricating in some instances.

      Plus lube is basically some type of oil. Oil will deteriorate seals some kind of way at some point in time. It’s not if it will happen. It’s when will it happen. Does anything really last forever?


      • Gunfun1,

        As usual you have jogged my memory to other subjects. But first, my FWB 601 comes with instructions not to lubricate the action as the 601 is a precision intyrument machined to the finest tolerances, or something like that. They point out that even at the factory FWB uses only high purity silicone lubricants.

        Also, as I’ve shared before, watches and typewriters are best with extremely light weight and light application of lubrication.

        Finally, “Does anything really last for ever?” That is the ultimate of [philosophical and existential questions! To it I have two recommendations from opposite sides of the cultural sphere, Robert Frost’s poem “Nothing Gold Can Stay” and the Queen song “Who Wants to Live Forever?” along with the movie it was written for, “Highlander.”

        Michael


      • Gunfun1
        In this case the manual has proved itself correct. Back then my main co2 gun was a Crosman MK 1. It was my main gopher gun for years and it never saw any oil on the co2 cartridge. The seals did eventually go after about 20 years. I had the MK 1 resealed and it is working on another 20 years although this time I oil the co2 cartridges for every reload. Just have to wait and see if things will last any longer
        Cheers
        Dave


  9. If this pistol is anything like the Czech CZ line of pistols, it will be good.

    Bob M., the double-tap could make up for the lower power of the 9mm, but that concept has been around for awhile. I understand it was invented by the British SAS for just this purpose when they converted to 9mm. So, this method hasn’t solved the problem so far, at least for anybody by elite troops. I’ve also heard that the army is relaxing some restrictions on ammunition to make it more lethal.

    Matt61


    • Matt61
      Interesting story, I’ve always figured the military wanted ‘humane’ ball ammo and that a wounded enemy removed additional people from the action than a dead one. My favorite rule of thumb, “Never turn your back on a dead man!”
      I don’t think this idea works too well in todays warfare. +P hollow points are always on hand in my place.

      Bob M


  10. BB
    Another suggestion for a blog – after many years of enjoying the hobby and sport of airgunning I find myself in possession of more than 75 airguns. As encroaching old age catches up and moving to a seniors facility is no longer in the distant future I find I must seriously look at thinning the herd so to speak!
    The area of western Canada where I live sees only one or two gun shows a year mostly representing local vendors and no airgun only shows anywhere. There just doesn’t seem to be any great interest in airguns at all.
    My question is, what is the best way, given the local apathy in the field of airguns, to reduce my fairly large collection.
    Cheers
    Dave


  11. BB, tight fitting springs should give vibration free shooting. But I have fitted a 20 mm spring in a piston of ID almost 20 mm. It fits in perfectly snug. But now when I try to cock the gun their is grating sound and I can’t complete the cocking. The piston stops dead shut and won’t move no further. It is kind of like when two broken parts of spring get their coils interlocked with each other and can’t be cocked. Why is this happening?


    • Riki,

      Did it ever cock? If not, it may be coil-bound. You need to measure the available space and the length of the fully-compressed spring.

      If it did cock you may be right about a broken mainspring. If it is a Diana, that is very possible.

      B.B.


      • BB, the available space is 128 mm. The compressed spring length is 96 mm (3.2mm X 30 coils).
        The previous spring has broken, so I am in the process of replacing the spring. The previous spring had an outer diameter of 19 mm against the 20.2 mm ID of the piston. Remembering that tight fitting springs and guides giving vibration-less shooting, I picked up a a 20 mm OD spring. After lubing and installing it into the gun, I find that it is almost impossible to cock. Why is this happening?


        • Riki,

          Well, it is impossible to say for certain, but I can guess. Perhaps the spring guide is damaged and is catching the spring when it compresses.

          Oh, and there is one other possibility. If you got the outer diameter of the new spring too close to the inner diameter of the piston, that could be the problem. You see, the outside of the mainspring increases in size slightly when it is compressed. The increase is very slight, but it’s there. If there isn’t enough room inside the piston, that would cause what you are experiencing to happen.

          To test for this, compress the mainspring full outside the rifle and measure the outer diameter. Use a tool like this:

          http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2012/03/resizing-a-mainspring/

          B.B.

          B.B.


  12. BB, the compressed diameter of the spring is indeed wider than the piston ID, at 20.4 mm!! If I keep a .5 mm clearance, can I avoid this problem in the future?
    I had never imagined before that air-gunning was going to be such a complicated hobby!


    • Riki,

      First, I want to say I am proud of you for taking the time to do the work. Now you know for a fact what is wrong. Next, I want to confirm that 0.5mm is larger than 0.4mm. Get as close as you can and still be under and you’ll be okay. Better to use an undersized spring and fill the space with a sheet metal shim — the old “soda can” tune.

      B.B.


  13. Hi BB,

    I am a new user. I am also new to owning a Co2 Pellet Gun. I have never owned and operated a Co2 Pellet gun or Airsoft gun before.

    I had just ordered my first Co2 Pistol and it should be coming in this week. It is a 1911, and I also bought a few Co2 cartridges, a few pellets and this Crosman Pellgunoil.

    Do you have any important tips for me as a beginner for owning and operating these guns?

    I read your article about this Crosman Pellgunoil and I was wondering should I use this on my new pistol when it arrives?

    Any select info you think might be important pertaining to the operation, safety, loading, gun maintenance, or anything else.

    Just a few words on your behalf, I would greatly appreciate it!


    • Madmonkey68,

      Welcome to the blog.

      I would say read the owner’s manual before you try to use the pistol. Yes, use the Pellgunoil from the very first cartridge you pierce. That oil will keep your pistol operating for a long time. Pellgunoil is the only maintenance you have to do. There is no cleaning that’s required.

      Remember that whenever there is a CO2 cartridge in the gun it is loaded. It will shoot anything that’s put into it, not just pellets and BBs. So treat it as though it is loaded at all times.

      Good luck with your new airgun and don’t forget to tell us what you think.

      B.B.


  14. BB
    Not sure how you would classify the Daisy Model 45 Semiauto pellet pistol. The trigger pulled a pellet down from a spring fed horizontal mag that sits on top of the non moving slide, but it could be fired both single and double action. You could cock the hammer to lighten the trigger pull.
    I got it when they were still selling the 1894 Spitten Image Winchester BB Rifle. They claim 400FPS but I fired it BC, Before Chrono, so it’s still unverified. Has the optional silver receiver.


  15. BB
    Are you keyed in when someone makes a post on an older blog?
    I just received an extra mag for my Sig MPX Carbine and it came with three linked 30 round belts. The Sig 320 pistol has a 30 round linked belt mag ….I wonder if the links are interchangeable ?


  16. BB
    Just looked a little closer at the Sig P320 mag and it seems to have a closed loop non removable link set up so they probably are not interchangeable.


  17. .22 Maximus info.,

    I just came in from shooting. I sat out new 15-16 oz. steel food cans, painted fluorescent orange,.. for the first time this year. I wanted to see what the Maximus would do at 70 yards. (Clear through),.. (both sides). 15.89 JSB’s. I have not shot at paper with it at 70 yards,.. but after some holdover and windage calculations, I was able to hit 8-9 of 10 shots on the cans. It is for sure a 1″ at 50 yards gun. Scoped.

    Just some FYI for anyone interested.


    • Chris U
      Nice little guns aren’t they.

      Try some standing unsupported shots at the cans and tell me what happens. Just a note. Rest your off hand elbow up against your rib cage and position your hand on the stock in front of the trigger guard in a spot on the stock to keep the gun pointed naturally on the target. And in your case since your shooting left handed point your body to the right at about a 45° angle to your target.

      I think you might just surprise yourself how it’s not that hard to hit like that. You can also tuck your trigger elbow into your rib cage also. Oh and kind of lean your upper body back a little. And don’t freak out on the shake since your using a scope.

      Let me know if you try it.


      • GF1,

        Still have yet to give the off-hand much of a go. The main reason for the post was to give those that might not have an idea,… of what the penetration power is at an extended range.

        As a side,.. walking down to the mailbox the other day,… trees on both sides,… and a squirrel runs across the drive from right to left and just sort of hangs out in the woods. 15 feet in front of me!!! Ironic is all I can say. And no,… I am not packing the Maximus on every trip to the mailbox,… though maybe I should give it some thought.

        I do,.. keep it topped and have a hard-ish foam pellet holder with 3 ready to load, attached to the gun,.. under the scope. That is about as “ready” as I am going to get.


        • Chris U
          Yep I know that’s what you meant by your comment about the Maximus out at 70 yards.

          The reason I replied. A while back we talked about off hand shooting. And you mentioned the Maximus would be a good one to give a try since it was not to heavy compared to some of your other guns.



          • GF1

            I have not. I will be giving it a go though for a random squirrel if the opportunity presents itself… though I would try to find a steady rest (tree, house, etc.) if available.


            • Chris U
              I was thinking more one the lines of plinking fun.

              Throw some of the cans you mentioned out in the yard and see if you can hit them unsupported.

              Maybe if you practice enough you won’t need those things you mentioned to lean up against.


    • Thanks Chris.
      I’m interested. The Maximus is looking ever more interesting. Am going to wring some level of accuracy from my Gamo Hunter before making any change in guns. However, I expect that the Maximus will be my “keeper.”


      • GrandpaDan,

        No problem, just passing along what I am doing/getting. You mentioned “keeper”,… I have a TX200 and LGU in .22 and an M-rod in .25 and I can (honestly) say that that the Maximus would be my #1 keeper if all the rest had to go.


        • Wow! That’s really saying something. I don’t know much about the LGU but TX200, I have read, is THE top of the line spring airgun, and the Marauder seems to be the standard that a lot of PCPs are compared to…at least in a comparable price range. So that tells me something about how much you like the Maximus, which is really a low cost entry level PCP. It must be even better than the specs say it should be. If that’s true, the Maximus must be the best value, dollar for dollar, of any PCP out there.


          • Geo,

            Yes, the TX and LGU are good,.. very good,… but they are also heavier and springers. The Marauder is good also,… very good,… but it weighs even more. It all comes down to what you want to try and want you want to use it for. For a light weight, get up and go, accurate shooter at 30 yards and in,… the Maximus would be my #1 choice.


            • Sounds like just what I need…but then the Maximus wasn’t available back in 2013 when I bought the RWS34p. We’ll see how things go with Tom’s evaluation. He may have to replace a defective barrel. After his normal evaluation, he’s going to install a Vortek tune kit in it which may make all the difference in the world too. Both you and GF1 have given good testimony of the Maximus. Based on the outcome of my RWS34, my next airgun will most likely be a Maximus. I am grateful to both you and to GF1 for your helpful posts and suggestions….and also the info regarding the Maximus.



    • Chris
      Hey! Did you have those cans lying down and shooting at the ends? Probably not but still that’s pretty good shooting for that range I would think. Open sights, or scoped…what mag? Just curious. I plan to ship my RWS34 to Tom tomorrow morning for his blog report.


      • Geo,

        They were on sticks planted in the ground,… so they had some “give” to them after the pellet hit the first side. Scoped with a 3-12×44 UTG set at 7 mag. level. Forget opens at that range,.. even half that,.. for me. It is really a 50 yard and in gun with 30 yard being a no miss. .22’s just do not have the mass to go out much past 50 with any reliable accuracy. If something was pushing them 1000 fps+,… well then,.. maybe.

        On the 34,… I really hope something good comes from all of this trial and error. Best of wishes on that.


        • Chris U
          “.22’s just do not have the mass to go out much past 50 with any reliable accuracy. If something was pushing them 1000 fps+,… well then,.. maybe.”

          What???

          Explain what you mean please.


          • GF1,

            I am not even going to try. That is just my opinion. It is all relative,… mass and speed,.. and more,.. and then there is limits to all of that. You get better results than 99% of most anyone here,… so perhaps you might explain why you think otherwise?


            • Chris U
              I don’t get why you said that 1000+ fps would be needed out past 50 yards.

              I have had several .22 caliber air guns that shot out to 100 yards with repeatable results. All was under 1000 fps too.

              Didn’t you just say you shot the Maximus out to 70 yards. It’s .22 caliber and it’s not shooting over 1000 fps right.


              • GF1,

                I have not done it on paper at 70. Until that,.. I will not say what it will do at 70. And then,.. I would not make any judgement until after a few repeated sessions at 70. My 50 is hit and miss. If I am on my game for the day, I do very well, for me, with the Maximus at 50. All I am saying, for the average shooter,.. the Maximus does very well at 50 and under.. and does exceptional at 30 and under.


      • Geo
        You know that will be interesting to see what happens when BB trys it out.

        Don’t forget to send him some of your pellets so he can test with what you have used.


  18. Okay this is off topic but the only one I know that can answer this question is Tom “BB” Gaylord so here goes. I have a Crosman 2240 CO2 pistol (not that off topic this is about a CO2 pistol) that I modified. I bought something called the a “power pack plus” which is a modded valve that holds more CO2 and a modified transfer port bushing that is enlarged and a more powerful hammer spring. It is doing a great job of delivering a ton of air flow as I only get about 20 shots per cylinder and it is very loud, but I don’t think I am seeing a big change in velocity. My pistol is actually a 2300 that already has a 10″ barrel instead of the 7.5″ barrel but I believe I need one that is much longer in order to utilize all this extra CO2… Do you have any idea how much difference a longer barrel will make? Is there some rule of thumb like 10 fps for every inch of barrel or anything like that? Do you think a 12″ barrel will help much or would you suggest going up even more? I am thinking about buying a 14″ barrel but not if it is only going to give me marginal results. I can get them in 18″ or even 24″ but I don’t think they would look right. Any input you can give me would be very much appreciated. Thank you for your knowledge and interesting blogs, you are a superhero in the airgun universe.


    • Docteur Ralph,

      It would help if you knew the actual velocities. This is where a chronograph comes in handy.

      I can tell you that, all things being equal, a 14-16-inch barrel will perform better than a 10-inch barrel. So the answer to your question is yes.

      No way to know exactly how much better it will do. No “rule of thumb” to go by. But my guess it there might be at least another 100 f.p.s. in your .177-caliber pistol. Fourteen inches might be ideal for your gun. Anything over 16-inches and you pass the point of diminishing returns for carbon dioxide. Longer doesn’t always equal faster in a CO2 gun, after a certain length is reached. With air longer is better up to a very long length and that always depends on the caliber. The bigger the caliber the longer the barrel can be.

      B.B.


    • Docteur Ralph
      I had a few 2240’s running the factory valve and transfer port diameter on Co2 and HPA. Have done Benjamin Discovery barrels in both calibers on them.

      Definitely helps with the longer barrel.



        • Docteur Ralph
          Yep no problem.

          If I’m remembering right around 22 inches. And I always use the Crosman steel breech because it has the dovetail grooves so I can mount a scope if I want.

          And your gun already should have a steel breech. So yes the Discovery or Maximus barrel will go right in. But what you need to pay attention to is the bolt probes are different for .177 and .22 caliber. So you need the correct steel breech and bolt that is specific to what caliber barrel you want to use.

          Pyramyd Air has the two different caliber steel breeches. But you will have to get the barrels from Crosman.


    • Some general info:

      MV by barrel length (14.3gr. Crosman Premier)

      7-1/2″-(2240) = 416 fps
      10-1/4″-(1322) = 472 fps
      14-1/2″-(2250/2289) = 526 fps
      24″—–(2260) = 553 fps


      • Thanks Cobalt. I see that whole diminishing returns going on there. I don’t see adding 10″ to the barrel for less than 30 fps. It’s amazing that adding that first 7″ gives more than 100 fps too.


        • Docteur Ralph
          But look. Those are all different guns that Cobalt posted. They might all use a different transfer port orifice inside diameter.

          That will change velocity too.


          • I think the 2240, 2250, and 2260 are the same gun in different configurations. I know they use a lot of the same parts. I don’t see why people would be customizing the 2240 valve and port if the parts were available from a 2250 or 2260. I looked around and the 2240 claims 460 fps with the 7.5″ barrel and the 2250 claims 550 fps with the 14.5″ barrel, and things seem to drop off quickly there. I really think a 14.5″ barrel will make the gun come alive.

            On a side note I got a pyramyd catalog today with an article about why I should own a chronograph (like I didn’t already know) but there was not a single chrono for sale in there…. I was disappointed. I’m ordering one and testing this pistol before and after I put a longer barrel in it. The real reason I want a chrono is because I put a Vortek PG2 in my RWS Diana 350 and I want to know how fast it shoots compared to what it was before. It doesn’t really matter because it is much smoother and more accurate but I still want to know.


            • Docteur Ralph
              Not sure about what size transfer port inside diameter is on the 2250 or 2260. Have never owned one. But probably could go to the Crosman site and pull up the parts digrams them guns. Sometimes they do use transmission he same part number on different guns if it’s a shared part. But if distinct to that gun it usually has its own part number. Same with the 1322.

              And I do believe you said your gun was a custom shop gun. There has been talk that the transfer port orifices used might be different for different barrels on those gun’s.

              Probably the only true way to know is have each gun mentioned in hand and take the breech and barrel of and compare the orifice inside diameter.



  19. Now we’re talking! That’s exactly what I was looking for Cobalt thank you very much. And yes my gun already has the long steel breech. I ordered it with that and the 10.1″ Crosman barrel and the Maple grips in .22. They call the pistol the 2300kt and the rifle the 2400kt but like I said it just says Model 2300 on the side. I love it but I should have gone ahead and got the 14.6″ optional barrel. I’ve heard the Lothar Walther barrels are not that much better, in fact some people don’t like them. I’m going to go ahead and stick with the Crosman barrel mine is more accurate than I am. http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii61/DR_RALPH/005_zpsdjlzu6fl.jpg


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