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    Product: Walther PPK/S Black BB gun

    Walther PPK/S Black BB gun Air gun
    Review entered on 2010-10-05 06:29:23

    Overall rating:5 5.0

    Value for money:5 5.0

    Accuracy:3 3.0

      By Howard from USA on 2010-10-05
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    31 rating
     
    Things I liked:This is real value for the money. Just a fun BB gun. Forget accuracy, shoot with as much time between shots as you can manage, and enjoy it. VERY realistic, feels like the real thing. A great bargain and a fun shooter. I highly recommend it as a plinker. Particularly great for gun-shy gals, young shooters, and Old Dogs like me who just enjoy "shooting things."
    Things I would have changed:Nothing

    Product: UTG Deluxe Tactical Red Laser Sight, Weaver/Picatinny Mount, Remote Pressure Switch

    UTG Deluxe Tactical Red Laser Sight, Weaver/Picatinny Mount, Remote Pressure Switch
    Review entered on 2010-12-08 10:21:49

    Overall rating:2 2.0

    Value for money:2 2.0

      By Howard from USA on 2010-12-08
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    51 rating
     
    Things I liked:STURDY TUBE; LOCKS ON WEAVER MOUNTS OKAY.
    Things I would have changed:MUCH BETTER ADJUSTMENT SCREWS. I JUST BOUGHT TWO; THEY WILL NOT REPEAT NOT HOLD ZERO, EVEN ON LOW POWERED SPRING/CO2 GUNS. I DO NOT EXPECT MUCH POWER OR RANGE (WHICH THESE DO NOT HAVE) BUT I DO EXPECT THE ADJUSTMENTS TO HOLD FOR MORE THEN 10-15 SHOTS. I TRIED THREAD LOCKER WITHOUT SUCCESS. UNLESS YOUR GOAL JUST SOMETHING "COOL LOOKING," THESE ARE A WASTE OF MONEY.

    Product: UTG Red Laser, Integral 3/8" Dovetail Mount w/Adjustable Clamping

    UTG Red Laser, Integral 3/8 inch Dovetail Mount w/Adjustable Clamping
    Review entered on 2010-12-08 10:28:37

    Overall rating:2 2.0

    Value for money:2 2.0

      By Howard from USA on 2010-12-08
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    11 rating
     
    Things I liked:GOOD METAL TUBE AND MOUNT
    Things I would have changed:ADJUSTMENT SCREWS DO NOT REPEAT NOT HOLD THEIR POSITION. AFTER A FEW SHOTS THE LASER WANDERS WAY OFF YOUR POI. THIS WAS TRUE ON LOW POWERED AIR AND CO2 RIFLES -- NEVER MIND MORE POWERFUL SPRINGERS. THREAD LOCK DOESN'T HELP. EXCEPT FOR LOOKING SEXY, THESE ARE USELESS. IF YOU WANT A RELIABLE, WORKING LASER YOU HAVE TO SPEND AT LEAST $100.

    Product: Daisy Powerline 617X

    Daisy Powerline 617X Air gun
    Review entered on 2010-12-08 15:57:57

    Overall rating:5 5.0

    Value for money:5 5.0

      By Howard from USA on 2010-12-08
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    00 ratings
     
    Things I liked:Realistic looking; excellent single action trigger; very accurate at 5 meters; mine likes R10 7 gram Pistol wadcutters, which it shoots (at 5 meters) as accurately as my much more expensive S&W and Colt pellet guns at the same range. Forget BB's ... any pellet will do far better. The barrel latch is too flimsy ("delicate") for my liking, so close it carefully. I get about 80 shots at decent power - downhill rather abruptly after that. Really good --- but non-adjustable -- rear sight. Mine shoots fairly consistently a bit to the left -- Kentucky windage after the first shot or two eliminates most of the problem.
    Things I would have changed:An adjustable rear sight ... charge $5 more for it. This is a winner ... particularly for the price. I own 7 pellet CO2 pistols .. at 5 meters this is among the best. For the price you cannot go wrong. I don't sweat the protruding "screw key" to lock in the CO2 cartridge .... it is efficient, and one can shoot the pistol without its getting in the way. A GREAT VALUE, FUN TO SHOOT, ACCURATE ENOUGH AT SHORT RANGES TO MAKE TARGET SHOOTING FUN.

    Product: Walther CP99 CO2 Gun, Green

    Walther CP99 CO2 Gun, Green Air gun
    Review entered on 2010-12-11 04:32:00

    Overall rating:5 5.0

    Value for money:5 5.0

    Accuracy:4 4.0

      By Howard from USA on 2010-12-11
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    00 ratings
     
    Things I liked:THIS IS A CLASS ACT IN THE CO2 PISTOL CATEGORY. FINE WORKMANSHIP, EXCELLENT HEFT AND FEEL; QUITE ACCURATE AND FUN TO SHOOT. FOR MY MONEY THIS IS AS GOOD - AND IN SOME WAYS SUPERIOR TO - BOTH THE EXPENSIVE COLT AND S&W CO2 PISTOLS. IF YOU HAVE THE BUCKS, BUY THIS GUN.
    What others should know:I USE THE R 10 PISTOL PELLETS AND FIND THEY WORK WELL.

    Product: Leapers Golden Image 3-9x32AO Rifle Scope, Mil-Dot Reticle, 1" Tube

    Leapers Golden Image 3-9x32AO Rifle Scope, Mil-Dot Reticle, 1 inch Tube
    Review entered on 2010-12-11 04:40:16

    Overall rating:4 4.0

    Value for money:5 5.0

      By Howard from USA on 2010-12-11
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    31 rating
     
    Things I liked:variable power, AO feature, and easily turned adjustment knobs. .. AND NO RPT NO EXPENSIVE AND FAIRLY USELESS ILLUMINATED RETICULE. Don't yet know if it will stand the test of frequent use, but for starters it looks great. Remarkable how much they can get into a scope that is this cheap in price.
    Things I would have changed:the lens covers are useless..... don't include them and drop the price a few bucks.
    What others should know:it is long ... be sure that your rifle can accept this length of scope.

    Product: Walther CP99/CPS Laser

    Walther CP99/CPS Laser
    Review entered on 2010-12-11 04:47:47

    Overall rating:4 4.0

    Value for money:4 4.0

      By Howard from USA on 2010-12-11
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    00 ratings
     
    Things I liked:snug fit; well designed to go with the pistol. It looks like good quality, but I don't know if it will last and/or retain zero..... time will tell. For starters, however, it's a good bet - and makes shooting a breeze.
    Things I would have changed:The door to the battery compartment is flimsy and can be difficult to operate.
    What others should know:BE CAREFUL WHEN INSERTING BATTERIES.

    Product: Daisy Powerline 617X

    Daisy Powerline 617X Air gun
    Review entered on 2010-12-26 06:06:28

    Overall rating:4 4.0

    Value for money:5 5.0

    Accuracy:4 4.0

      By Howard from USA on 2010-12-26
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    51 rating
     
    Things I liked:This very cheap pellet-firing CO2 gun gives very high value for the money. Quite accurate: with R10 wadcutter Pistol pellets AND a rest I shoot groups of between 1/2 and 3/4 inches at 15 feet.... no doubt better shooters than I am can do better than that. Good groups ... but they hit nowhere near the point of aim, so if you actually want to hit a specific POI you have to figure out the Kentucky windage needed to place a group where you actually want it. I have learned to expect about 75 shots at fairly high power, after which power drops off dramatically. I think that is very acceptable. Unless I want to play "mad minute" with rapid fire - which it will do fairly well in terms of consistent power - I ONLY fire it Single Action (i.e., I cock the hammer every time before firing.) Using it double action reduces accuracy significantly.
    Things I would have changed:The sliding latch used to open/close the barrel for loading is ridiculously flimsy, and I doubt that it will last very long. Strengthening it would be a really cheap fix, and add enormously to the durability of the pistol. Given the flimsy overall construction of the pistol, Daisy should at least improve this part. Also, it should have a provision to attach a laser ... again, a very low cost up-grade that Daisy could do. (But won't, of course ... when did anyone ever see a manufacturer actually pay attention to reviews?)
    What others should know:DON'T DROP this pistol ... it is so flimsy that I can't see it taking any rough handling. Inserting the six shot pellet clip takes some care ... don't expect it to just "drop in." Open/close the barrel latch VERY carefully, trying to put as little stress on the latch as possible. This should extend the working life of the latch. Given the really cheap and flimsy construction of this pistol - compared, say to the quality of the Walther CP99 - I figure that it might last a year or two (say ... 2,000 shots) before it just plain breaks. (I hope I'm wrong, but if it does last longer than that ... great!) Treat it very gently as it is fun to shoot and good value.

    Product: Umarex SA177 BB Gun Repeater

    Umarex SA177 BB Gun Repeater Air gun
    Review entered on 2011-01-08 12:23:31

    Overall rating:4 4.0

    Value for money:4 4.0

    Accuracy:3 3.0

      By Howard from USA on 2011-01-08
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    00 ratings
     
    Things I liked:This is a big BB pistol, with a heavy, robust feel to it. Slide blow back is hard and noisy. Excellent magazine - robust metal, good spring action to hold BBs. Good magazine release. Adequate sights given that this is NOT an inherently accurate BB pistol. Takes a laser. At 15 feet, slow fire trying for accuracy, I keep 18 shots within a 2 1/2 inch circle, with a few shots more or less in the bulls eye. Rapid fire, I keep around 18 shots inside a 2 3/4 circle, nothing near the bull. (Granted I am only an average pistol shot.) Shoots roughly 115 BB's before there is a severe drop off in power. I just plan on shooting six or seven mags (of 16-18 BB's each) and then changing the CO2 cylinder. I'm happy with 100-120 shots per cylinder, and why waste BB's and time ion order to milk a couple of dozen low powered extra shots.
    Things I would have changed:Biggest problem with the gun is loading the CO2 cylinder. The "key" to tighten the cylinder is well concealed in the grip, BUT it is consequently a very small half-moon affair that flips around on a pivot (i.e., it is not fixed in the turning position.) I can't turn the key quickly enough with my fingers to avoid losing a bunch of CO2. SO .... I have learned to turn the key (once it is just snugged into the mechanism) with a pair of fairly wide-jawed pliers. It takes a fair amount of rotation to get the CO2 cylinder punctured and stop the leaking. The double action ONLY trigger is god-awful .. lots of slack.
    What others should know:The blow back action is noisy and rough .. it really shakes the pistol. This doesn't matter in rapid fire, but it throws off your aim if you are trying to shoot for accuracy. If you like lots of slam-bam shake and noise from a reciprocating slide, you will love this pistol. I beat (sort of ) the lousy long trigger pull (when shooting for accuracy) by pulling it way back until it feels like it is near the end of its travel..... THEN I shift to my aim point and complete the pull. Its a fun gun, but there is nothing "slick" about it.

    Product: H&K USP CO2 BB Pistol

    Heckler & Koch H&K USP CO2 BB Pistol Air gun
    Review entered on 2011-02-28 05:10:37

    Overall rating:4 4.0

    Value for money:5 5.0

      By Howard from USA on 2011-02-28
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    00 ratings
     
    Things I liked:Many shots per CO2 capsule. Rugged body. It's fun to shoot.
    Things I would have changed:The magazine. As others have noted, the mechanism to release the spring hold-down is flimsy and erratic. Care needs to be taken to make sure that it works, and I have no confidence in its durability - I suspect it won't last long. This is THE problem with this inexpensive gun. Also ...inserting BBs takes some care.
    What others should know:Load BBs, when using the excellent and useful loader, ONE AT A TIME, or the thing jams. Accuracy is pathetic: at 15 feet, shooting from a pistol rest with the pistol firmly "locked down," groups run from 1.5 to 2 inches. That's the best it could do. Shooting freehand, my groups average a pretty steady 2.5 to 3.5 inches.

    Product: Desert Eagle CO2 Pistol

    Magnum Research Desert Eagle CO2 Pistol Air gun
    Review entered on 2011-02-28 05:25:55

    Overall rating:5 5.0

    Value for money:3 3.0

    Accuracy:5 5.0

      By Howard from USA on 2011-02-28
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    54 ratings
     
    Things I liked:An excellent CO2 clone of this ridiculously over-sized, unwieldy and heavy semi-auto. I can't imagine why anyone would buy the real thing except for bragging rights. It could inflict real damage if thrown at someone - perhaps that is the rationale. I can't help but think that its Israeli designers did the whole thing as a joke, knowing that Americans think that bigger is better. A Very Accurate pistol.
    Things I would have changed:CO2 consumption - I get no more than 24 reliable, more or less full power shots out of one CO2 capsule. After that, power drops like a stone.
    What others should know:Shooting from a rigid pistol rest, gun fully secured, I get groups at 15 feet that can be covered by a Dime. Freehand, same distance, 1 inch groups are possible. Super accurate pellet pistol. Be sure to take a gun bearer along to carry the thing and all the CO2 capsules you will need.

    Product: Air Venturi Bronco air rifle

    Air Venturi Bronco air rifle Air rifle
    Review entered on 2011-06-08 15:21:06

    Overall rating:3 3.0

    Value for money:3 3.0

      By Howard from USA on 2011-06-08
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    00 ratings
     
    Things I liked:Decent trigger; moderate cocking effort. Iron sights are acceptable, but put a cheap scope on it to optimize performance. Nice touch to put a scope stop "hole" at the rear of the receiver.
    Things I would have changed:THE STOCK. Not only is the color unattractive (which was okay by me, since I planned to Dura Coat it anyway) but it is FAT. All over. It simply feels FAT and looks FAT. To me, it looks like it is about half-way to being finished. This has been noted before, and I am mystified why an alternate stock isn't at least offered .. charge another $10 if you must. If I were a competent woodworker I would remove about 45 percent of the bulk. The idea was a good one, but it utterly fails in execution because of the wood.
    What others should know:I don't think that this is a "youth gun". First it's too heavy (because of the fat wood); it is difficult for young hands and arms to maneuver; and cocking is not all that easy. I tried it out on three grandchildren, ages 9 to 12. All thought it was too heavy and hard to cock. Very off-putting to the kids. I'm keeping it for myself, but had I bought it only for the kids I would have returned it.

    Product: H&K USP CO2 BB Pistol

    Heckler & Koch H&K USP CO2 BB Pistol Air gun
    Review entered on 2011-08-01 06:46:45

    Overall rating:4 4.0

    Value for money:4 4.0

      By Howard from USA on 2011-08-01
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    31 rating
     
    Things I liked:Very good "replica" in terms of heft and balance. The CO2/magazine unit was defective, which I only learned after the 90 day PA warranty - BUT PA made it right when they didn't have to. THANKS>
    Things I would have changed:The Magazine/CO2 cartridge release mechanism is odd, a poor design, and anything but snappy and precise. Kind of an irritant. As noted by several reviewers, the odd little spring at the bottom of the magazine - which must be "operated" in order to release the magazine spring follower - is a real pain.
    What others should know:TEST YOUR AIRGUN AS SOON AS YOU RECEIVE IT. Since it was a gift for my son, I did not test it right away, and it was a couple of months before I gave it to him and fired it. We immediately found that the CO2 cylinder leaked like crazy, and I wasted three capsules proving that it was defective. This meant that I was beyond the 90 day warranty with Pyramid Air. Umarex was unhelpful, but PA kindly replaced it. If they had not, I would have had to throw it away.

    Product: Walther PPK/S Black BB gun

    Walther PPK/S Black BB gun Air gun
    Review entered on 2011-08-16 07:41:20

    Overall rating:3 3.0

    Value for money:3 3.0

    Accuracy:3 3.0

      By Howard from USA on 2011-08-16
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    00 ratings
     
    Things I liked:All the things other reviewers have commented on... looks and feels great.
    Things I would have changed:Quality control. After perhaps 200 shots the trigger stopped working normally: now I have to push it forward to get it set up to fire the next shot. Pretty crummy.
    What others should know:With only a 90 day warranty - which had, of course, expired when the trigger problem developed - PA is out of the picture, and the cost of sending it to Umarex plus paying (an unknown amount) for repair was more than it is worth. I no longer buy anything from PA (from whom I have purchased more than a dozen air guns) that doesn't have a one year warranty. I suspect that the 90 day warranty reflects their experience with the pistol.

    Product: Walther PPK/S Laser

    Walther PPK/S Laser
    Review entered on 2011-08-16 08:13:35

    Overall rating:3 3.0

    Value for money:3 3.0

      By Howard from USA on 2011-08-16
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    00 ratings
     
    Things I liked:Looks good, great if/.when it works. Okay for indoors, short range, which is all that should be expected from such a cheap unit.
    Things I would have changed:A) The instructions are imperfect and should be more detailed. This complaint has surfaced before: why can't PA pay attention, do up a better set, and just slip the improved version in the shipment. B) The set screws holding the unit to the frame shake loose fairly quickly as a result of the recoil. I finally gave up and epoxied the unit to the bottom of the frame. C) the adjustment screws vibrate loose all the time: they should be improved. D) The ring around the front of the laser just fell off: I epoxied that too.
    What others should know:This is a cheap laser, so don't expect much. Given the above problems I would NOT buy it again.

    Product: CenterPoint 1x25mm Multi-TAC Quick Aim Sight, Weaver-Style Rings

    CenterPoint 1x25mm Multi-TAC Quick Aim Sight, Weaver-Style Rings
    Review entered on 2011-09-16 08:54:47

    Overall rating:5 5.0

    Value for money:5 5.0

      By Howard from USA on 2011-09-16
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    41 rating
     
    Things I liked:I "moved up" to this slightly more extensive "tube type:" red dot sight from cheaper "reflex" red dot sights, four of which, at roughly half the price of this item, simply did not hold up. I figured that this unit - because it has a life time guarantee and appears to be much more robust (so far anyway) - would be worth the cost. So far I have been right. I like its relatively small size for a "tube" type red dot, and have mounted it on both a large frame revolver and several rifles. Its adjustment features work well, and it has held zero for several hundred shots. I am going to buy several more.
    Things I would have changed:Would be nice if the adjustment turrets had "finger knobs" instead of needing a small screw driver to turn.

    Product: Walther PPK/S Black BB gun

    Walther PPK/S Black BB gun Air gun
    Review entered on 2011-09-16 09:08:39

    Overall rating:3 3.0

    Value for money:3 3.0

    Accuracy:2 2.0

      By Howard from USA on 2011-09-16
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    11 rating
     
    Things I liked:I echo the positive comments for realism in terms of weight and appearance.
    Things I would have changed:The magazines are really, really poor quality: flimsy, and lack a built-in means to lock the spring follower down when loading. I have about ten magazine fed CO2 pistols, and these magazines are by far the least sturdy and hardest to load.
    What others should know:The metal from which this is made is NOT steel, but some sort of a very soft material - which does give the pistol much more realism than the all plastic jobs. Just remember ... it is not steel: when installing the Walther laser its set screws dug right in to metal frame.

    Product: Dan Wesson 8" CO2 BB Revolver, Black

    Dan Wesson 8 inch CO2 BB Revolver, Black Air gun
    Review entered on 2011-10-01 09:39:11

    Overall rating:4 4.0

    Value for money:4 4.0

      By Howard from USA on 2011-10-01
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    00 ratings
     
    Things I liked:Very realistic HUGE six shot revolver with an 8 inch barrel (at least the barrel shroud is that long. Okay trigger when fired single action. Heavy but okay when fired double action. Nice grips with an unusual manner of swinging open. The amusing part is that it comes with 12 hollow "bullets: you insert a BB into each bullet. Chrono'd at 400 fps average. Comes with a rail for a Weaver mount.
    Things I would have changed:The manual is written in unusually poor Ching-lish. Only has a 30 day warranty, which makes me nervous. Have only put 100 shots through it, so far no problems, but I worry with such a limited warranty.
    What others should know:It is heavy, and all metal. Finish is flawless. Adjustable sights work okay. Like most BB pistols, this is NOT particularly accurate. From a rest the BB's walk around a two inch circle at 15 feet. Maybe that will improve. Fun gun ... impressive to look at and hold.

    Product: Dan Wesson 8" CO2 BB Revolver, Black

    Dan Wesson 8 inch CO2 BB Revolver, Black Air gun
    Review entered on 2011-10-03 18:26:44

    Overall rating:5 5.0

    Value for money:5 5.0

    Accuracy:4 4.0

      By Howard from USA on 2011-10-03
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    00 ratings
     
    Things I liked:This is an addendum to my earlier review. I have now installed the rail provided with the revolver and mounted a Center Point Red Dot sight. So equipped I have fired about 200 BB's. Accuracy has greatly improved: at 5 meters (15 feet) from a locked down rest all six shots fill a one inch diameter bulls eye. WITH an occasional flier. The CO2 capsule inserts easily and the built-in "screw" easily punctures the capsule end ... but be ready for a gas leak if you don't complete the movement quickly.
    Things I would have changed:Please offer extra "bullets". To the maker: This would be worth modifying (including rifling the barrel) to shoot pellets.
    What others should know:I get about 40 shots before power falls off. The BB's fit nicely into the "bullets." I am impressed with this gun: it is NOT as good (quality/accuracy) as the S&W revolver, but it costs half as much. Loading the "bullets" is a minor chore, but it all makes for a more realistic experience.... and slows down rate of fire, allowing the gun to warm up between shots. I have the feeling the finish will scratch easily, so handle with care. a BIG gun that easily accepts a Red Dot or scope. So far, good value for money. ( But I still am worried by the short 30 day warranty. What does the maker know that does not give him the confidence to give a longer warranty ? Hummmmm)

    Product: Winchester M14 CO2 Air Rifle

    Winchester M14 CO2 Air Rifle Air rifle
    Review entered on 2012-06-23 08:43:23

    Overall rating:4 4.0

    Value for money:4 4.0

    Accuracy:4 4.0

      By Howard from USA on 2012-06-23
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    00 ratings
     
    Things I liked:Accurate; and great to have an airgun the size of a real battle rifle.
    Things I would have changed:Be prepared: this thing is Pure Plastic.... it feels much more "plastic" than any of the other 10 air rifles I own that are also largely plastic. I would put some sort of additional weight in the butt stock and in the forearm - it is just almost silly light weight. I would love some ideas from people on how to put some weight inside ... can the stock be removed from the the barrel/receiver group to allow for inserting some weight??
    What others should know:The tiny round "clips" have several failings: First, they are cheaply made and NOT ROBUST! Second, they do not hold pellets well: take care in loading or your pellets will fall out - or, worse yet, get jammed inside the gun. It takes some practice to insert pellets far enough in to get the necessary friction fit.I found I could safely use only Flat-headed pellets .. you must be careful that in seating a pellet in the "clip" you do NOT to allow the head to project above the flat face of the clip (muzzle side.) Flat nose pellets do this best. I got almost 100 shots out of the two CO2 cartridges... on a warm day, firing fairly slowly.

    Product: Legends C96 CO2 BB Pistol

    Legends C96 CO2 BB Pistol Air gun
    Review entered on 2013-12-09 15:37:27

    Overall rating:3 3.0

    Value for money:3 3.0

    Accuracy:3 3.0

      By Howard from USA on 2013-12-09
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    00 ratings
     
    Things I liked:The original Mauser was a weird gun, and this is a good approximation of it.Yup ... all plastic except the magazine/capsule assembly and a couple of internal parts. about AS CLUMSY A Pistol as possible.
    Things I would have changed:I found the "recoil" very strong... from a rest I needed both hands and a death grip to hold it on target.Accuracy sucks ( Copperheads gave me 2 inch groups at best.) REMEMBER to 1) PUSH THE SLIDING BIT AT THE TOP OF THE MAGAZINE forward before loading, and make sure it is still forward when you insert the magazine ... or YOU WILL GET A JAM. 2) push THE SLIDE ALL THE WAY FORWARD AFTER YOU HAVE PULLED IT BACK TO LOAD AND COCK THE PISTOL. mine DID NOT CLOSE THE LAST 1/8 INCH AND THE GUN FAILED TO FIRE.
    What others should know:This is an amusing addition to a collection, but don't buy it if you a looking for BB gun accuracy. I'm not even going to bother trying to shoot it free hand the recoil is so severe. (And this gun had the 10 for $10 treatment.Money wasted.)

    Product: Legends Parabellum P.08 CO2 Pistol

    Legends Parabellum P.08 CO2 Pistol Air gun
    Review entered on 2014-02-18 05:52:30

    Overall rating:4 4.0

    Value for money:4 4.0

    Accuracy:2 2.0

      By Howard from USA on 2014-02-18
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    00 ratings
     
    Things I liked:Replica appearance and weight; all-metal construction. Lots of shots per CO2 capsule (I got nearly 120). Clever job of concealing the CO2 capsule and mechanism.
    Things I would have changed:Front sight MUST be painted white to be visible. The horrible trigger.
    What others should know:As a D/A only pistol this has the hardest trigger of any "handgun" I have ever fired. The only way I could manage "minute of pop can" accuracy was to pull the trigger back until it almost broke - then pause, aim and complete the trigger movement.
    Over
    ammo packs sold