by B.B. Pelletier
Paul sez I’ve noticed that certain specifications on scope mounts is near impossible to find on the Pyramyd website and on the internet in general. In particular, the maximum objective sizes for certain mounts, like the B-Square 17101. I know its a good idea for people to call with their tech questions, however when assembling a wishlist at 2 am its a bit difficult. Even the B-Square website has no specs on their models. Pyramid would be the ONLY website with this info if they decided to add it to the description. I’m guessing that ther 17101 is for objectives up to 44mm, and the High Mount version 17701 is for 50mm and above. I’ve already emailed Pyramid on this, I just thought I’d share it with the readers who may also be scratching heads.
I have heard this same question many times, so today I would like to address it. Why don’t mount manufacturers (or dealers, as Paul mentioned) list the largest scope objective bell that will clear a rifle with each mount?
The reason they don’t do it (in fact, cannot do it) is because all guns are not made the same. Let’s look at some dramatic examples that illustrate my point.
Spring rifles with straight receivers
First, let’s consider a spring rifle that has dovetails cut directly into the spring tube. The scope will clamp directly to the spring tube, which means that the height of the scope mount is all that raises the scope objective bell above the receiver. Look at what happens when that kind of gun gets scoped.
This Bug Buster 2 has a 32mm objective bell, but look how close it comes to the top of the receiver on this Hammerli Storm. With this gun, and if you use no other scope bases, you need high rings to go to a 40 mm objective.
I’m going straight to the opposite extreme, when I show you a Talon SS. All AirForce rifles have a raised scope rail that elevates the scope far above the receiver. You can mount a scope with a 56mm objective in low mounts on these rifles and still have room to spare.
The scope rail on this Talon SS raises the scope high! The reason the rifle has the AirForce TriRail and the B-Square Ultra High rings is for the shooter’s preference, but the scope’s 50mm objective would clear with ease – even with low mounts.
So, each type of gun has a different scope height allowance, if you want to talk about it that way. And, that’s before we throw in accessories that also raise the scope, like the AirForce TriRail shown above.
If this was such an important issue that the feds got involved, there could be standards like “measured from a straight receiver” in every scope mount ad. Then, the buyer would have to decide if his gun had a straight receiver or a raised one. If raised, how much?
But, it isn’t that important, so the airgun industry will just have to keep plugging along. Dealers will have to answer these questions because no table can be constructed to fit all the circumstances.
117 thoughts on “Why don’t scope mount manufacturers list the largest objective bell that will clear the gun?”
I found some information on B-Square’s web sight that gave me some general idea of what a scope mount would acomodate and I knew the gun that I was going to mount it on had a raised scope rail.
I go to the manufactures web sight any time I am looking for computer parts information, drivers, firmware, bios , ect.
After weeks of asking around the internet and getting no reply. I just called pyramid air and placed a order. I think they told me that if I wasn’t satisfied I could send it back. and go for the high mounts.
At the time it was driving me nuts ,but now things makes more sense to me.
I had this same problem when I wanted a new scope for my cfx. I wasn’t sure if I should get a 40 mm or a 50 mm objective scope. I got accushot rings because they were cheap and on leapers website (leapers makes the mounts) they said that the model ring I was looking at would accomidate up to 56 mm. I assume they measure from the underside of the mount (the part that would touch the top of the dovetail) to as close to the center axis of the ring. Well long story short for anyone with a cfx, A leapers 3-9×50 will fit with accushot high rings. Also, why couldn’t pyramydair just do this measurement themselves, and the customer could judge for themselves whether or not the rings would work on their own gun and scope.
Just some thoughts, Kyle.
Can you do a review on the LaserLyte Bore Sight because it looks like a good idea (if you could angle the light) but also would it fit to all Air guns even the Talon SS because the barrel does not go to the end of the gun.
Going back to an earlier posts by BB about dieseling. I just added a Chrony to my list of toys. The first measured shot out of my Beeman HW97K Mk-III was 1003fps. The following shots averaged 935fps. I assume this extra speed/energy was the result of a little dieseling on the first shot of the day. String of 10 results w/o the 1003. Lo: 923.4 Hi: 945.1 Ave: 935.6 Spread: 21.70 StdDev: 7.54 Energy: 13.6, pellets Meisterkugeln 7gr.
ive narrowed it down to the hw50 and the diana 48. in your opinion which would perform better in terms of trigger, hold, buzz ect. this is my first spring piston rifle. i like the 48’s ambidexterous stock because i am a lefty. i also like that i can mount a bigger scope and a sling eisier. i dont like the velocity or scope stop provisions. any thoughts on this?
That was the whole point of my post. Precise measurements are meaningless unless they’re related to specific guns. Even within models, there can be variationns. Low, medium & high ratings are as good as can be done without confusing everyone.
It’s a pity that all manufacturers do not use the same measurements for their low, medium and high rings. Just do the best you can. This is why it pays to ask a customer rep.
It’s futile to bore sight an air rifle, when you can sight it in at 10 feet. That’s why I’ve not reviewed any bore-sighting devices or collimators.
I do believe you’re right, that the spud will not index correctly on the Talon SS, because the end cap is not connected to the barrel, nor is it the right size.
WHAT?! You didn’t list the alloy composition of the pellet metal??? Really, how can I be expected to respond to an incomplete question or observation like yours.
Ha, ha. You win the prize for nominating Monday’s blog topic: “First shots.”
anonymous, you mentioned that you don’t like the velocity on the ’48. Too high? There’s always the option of getting it in .22, but either way BB is right – it’s a darned nice rifle. A bit on the heavy side, though…
Choosing between and HW50 and an RWS Diana 48 is like choosing between a Honda CIvic and cargo truck. You haven’t narrowed it down. You’re mixing apples and oranges. Get the HW50 if you want to shoot a lot; get the 48 if you want to hunt. The 50 has the better trigger, is easier to cock and is generally an easier rifle to shoot.
thank you bb,
i think i will be doing alot of general shooting. thanks for putting it in perspective. im just concerned that i cant mount a high power scope. ive been meening to call pyramyd to see the biggest i could put on but havent gotten around to it. there are no big scopes under the recomendations. why is this? are the rails too short? thanks again
I see no good reason why manufacturers and vendors both can not list dimensions for their scope rings. Leupold does it. Midway USA does it.
If I have a gun in hand, I want to know what will fit. I’m fully capable of making measurements, however without published dimensions I’m still left guessing.
I have experienced the same frustration myself over the lack of guidance on ring height vs. scope size. B.B.’s points are well taken, but I would really appreciate a company that at least tried to help me with rough guidelines. And as mentioned in the original post that started the blog, the company that starts doing this is really going to distinguish themselves in the eyes of consumer.
Even if they have to use a disclaimer which explains that there is gun-to-gun variation, different mounting systems, etc., I still think that consumers would appreciate a ballpark estimate of what X size rings from Y manufacturer can generally accomodate in terms of scope objective/diameter. I know I would.
In this self-service information age, more data is better to allow us to make decisions. It doesn’t have to be absolute. I’d rather have a rough guide to go by than nothing at all.
Pyramyd Air already does a great job supplying us with information (this blog alone is proof of that), it would be a logical fit for their brand to do this as well. C’mon Pyramyd, your loyal customers are rooting for you!
Precision Air Rifle Nationals on July 1-3 and 10-12. Will Pyramyd be there for either of those in Bowling Green, KY. I know i will be.
i am guessing you are about to do a report on the Hammerli Storm in the near future due to the photo on todays post. Am i correct?
BB already did the Hammerli Storm Elite – which is a fancy version of the regular Storm (I’ve got one in .22). Good accuracy and power, decent finish, some buzzing and twanging when fired.
Oh, yeah – and a really lousy trigger that almost ruins the rifle (for me at least).
Thanks for the explanation of the mounts/objective bells conundrum. It seems I stirred a bee’s nest of emotions regarding it, and thats a good thing!–its how we learn.
What brought up my question was the result of much reading (here mostly) and research into my next springer purchase. It’s a close call between the Diana 54 and the Diana 350. I like the uniqueness of the 54, and having read your very good review of the airgun, it
almost sealed the deal for me. I do however like the simple lines, slightly lighter weight and grace of handling of the long 350. I also feel that a break barrel is more suitable for switching arms to cock, where a side-lever seems its more geared towards right handed, or at least an awkward left cocking. That small detail however will not be the breaking point of a decision–just my initial observations
More to the point of your blog, it was the search for the best bang for the buck scope that brought me to the question of mount/scope matching. I’d have to consider a scope with a shorter overall length to accomodate the loading port of the 54, which limits my choices somewhat. The choce for a mount in my opinion, is a no-brainer–the B-Square on my Diana 34 has been working like a charm.
What it boils down to I guess is that I’ll call the fine folks at Pyramid and ask if the Leapers 4-16×50 and B-square 17101 will work nicely together–or will I have to shell out the extra $20 to get the high mount version–
Then there’s the question from a shooter’s perspective–how will the higher mounts/airgun combo affect my experience in the field—ahhh..so many questions–But enough from me, keep up the fantastic blogging!
Make sure a accommodate for barrel droop that Diana’s are known for, Fixed or break barrel.
A recent Diana Model 54 thread on the Yellow forums.
Thanks Bryan, it’s the reason I trust the adustable B-Squares that the masters of airgunning reccommend!
Just on another note, some thoughts I had. I have an Accushot 30mm “medium” mount here. Measuring from the top of the dovetail to the center of the ring is approximately 2.21″ This is roughly 56.1mm–so indeed the package statement is correct that if can handle a scope up to 56mm objective bell—
However, I dont think this takes into consideration any rubber adjustment rings or lens caps that might extend beyond the objective circumfrence. So I see your point even more clearly now about the difficulty of a standard. I do believe if the dimensions that I’ve taken were available to consumers, we’d be all the more educated in our purchases.
Here is a scan I made just for refference:
..and a correction..
“Measuring from the top of the dovetail to the center of the ring is approximately 2.21”
actually I meant 1.1″ or 27.94mm
sounds nice. What would you guess the trigger pull is? Not more than 5 pounds i hope.
i was curious about how hammerli guns rank as far as quality is concerned in regards to other airgun manufacturers. I know that they are made in germany which it seems is always a plus, but i have abslolutely no experience with them and noticed that they are relatively cheap. so how good are they?
i havent shot many guns so far so i dont exactly know what everyone means when they say lousy trigger. could you explain what the difference is with a good trigger, and a bad one?
If your going to consider spending that much money on a rws 54 have you considered a air armes tx200.
I just looked at pyramids web sight and was shocked. I though that the left handed version was about $100 more and was not available in walnut.
I was thinking of maybe getting a right handed one and getting a custom left handed stock.
Wow a left handed walnut version for the same price as a right handed gun is making me faint.
b.b are all the hc versions of the gun right handed?
rexdart I don’t know what you are going to use the gun for but I think you will be disapointed in the tx200.
Any comments b.b? Is it sweet in both calibers and versions(hc)?
correction won’t be disapointed in the tx200.
I’m not BB, but…
The Hammerli (at least the Storm) is NOT German. It is made in Spain by Norica, which is where the GH and GS series of Beemans come from. In fact, I’m virtually certain that the Storm is identical to the GH1050. The SS series Beeman guns are Norica clones made in China by Shanghai
To, me, overall quality seems comparable to the Gamo Shadow (and related) guns, with the exception of the trigger.
Norica has 2 triggers – the lousy one found on the Storm, which is a direct sear. Very heavy pull, like 6 to 8+ lbs. It can be made lighter, but I suspect that makes the trigger unsafe. Much inferior to the Gamo trigger.
The better Norica trigger, on the other hand, is a very nice REAL 2-stage with a good feel. This trigger is found on the Hammerli Razor, the Beeman GS1000 and old S1 series, and is cloned on the Shanghai AR1000. This is far better than the Gamo trigger.
BB, pyramidair lists the Hammerli Razor as having a non-adjustable trigger. I suspect this is incorrect. Is there any way of checking this out?
The HW 50S is not a long-range rifle. Big scopes normally go with those.
Just look at the dimensions and choose what you want, then ask the sales rep to make sure it will clear the barrel when it breaks open.
Pyramyd will be at the NRA National Junior Airgun Championships in Akron July 4-8 and at Camp Perry for the National Championships that start July 10,I believe.
I did a 3-part review of the Storm Elite. Here’s the last part:
I’ve asked Pyramyd to look at the Razor’s trigger.
Good triggers feel the same every time and they do not have creep. Creep is when you feel the trigger move and pause as you squeeze it. A good trigger releases without any feeling beforehand. It’s like a glass rod breaking. The snap is sudden, without any warning.
And always at the same level of effort.
The best triggers have stops so they don’t move after they release.
Pyramyd Air is now importing Air Arms guns directly, so there will be a broader selection as time passes.
Personally I like the TX best in .177, but a lot of readers have it in .22 and a few have the HC in .22 and they all seems to love their guns.
If your considering the TX200 why not the B40? in BB’s review it proved better then the TX200 and miles cheaper.
BB – hPyramydAir still lists the Hammerli Storm variants as having adjustable triggers! Apparently, they didn’t correct that yet…
That particular B40 may have outperformed a older (borrowed?) TX200 in accuracy , but then there is the trigger.
TX vs B40
Don’t forget the TX’s record for longevity, customer support, and resale value. What would a used B40 be worth?
Ok if you are not willing to work on it, but if you were then the B40 would be much better buy.
Since we are talking about mounts here, let me tell you about my experiences with the Hammerli Storm. I like it…I have the .22 version, I got it about a month ago. It has the dovetail machined into the reciever. So I picked up a bsquare 17701 mount and put a leapers 6-24×50 scope on it. Outstanding!!! But then…problems. That particular scope mount is too long to fit on the dovetails if you use the gun’s built in scopestop. So I took the scopestop off, and the bsquare mount just wont fit right. I beleive its because the bsquare mount has a flat bottom and wants a flat rail to mount to(no problems mounting it to my Diana 350). You see, the Storm’s dovetails have a “rounded” top, which is actually the top of the reciever. So now I am thinking that I may get a set of bsquare adjustable rings like the 10037. This would enable me to use the built in scopestop, and compensate for the barrel droop. Also note that I have the exact same problem on my Gamo Shadow, which has the dovetails machined into the receiver with a rounded top.
What do you guys think of my problems/solutions?
what is more accurate at 50 yards the daystste airwolf of the AA EV2? Under perfect conditions, NO human error, wind etc.
some people are not looking for the best buy. What you consider the best buy may not be what others think is the best buy. Its all an opinion determined by ones values.
I personaly think the air arms TX is the best value of all springers. This is because i value company’s reputations and product performance.
that was said by me
The B40 is a option , but I am not up on what people have been doing to mod the gun.
I’m starting to work springers though. Its not much of a option on cheaper guns to be satisfied on the triggers and shooting characteristics.
I have a Gamo s1k and used a B-Square 17101 mounts for a 4×32 AO. I removed the guns scope stop for eye placement. I didn’t have any trouble in mounting but I noticed some slippage after reinstalling the mount /scope. It may be that I didn’t let the loctite dry fully. Thats hard to do on my day off.
The BKl’s may be made different and fit the gun better, but then you need to know how much droop you have.
Its hard to say without knowing what exactly is going on.
B.B. Other than for for Adjustments (in some), What are the advantages of one-piece scope mounts over rings? Thanks–Don.
I think they just took care of it. Thanks!
I found a company that has the airwolf in stock. I will get an air wolf over an Air Arms EV2 because i dont care for the way the EV2 looks and how heavey it is. Out of curiosity i must ask you what you think is more accurate between those two airguns.
Thank you for thinking that I would know something like that.
If I had to guess, I’d go with the EV2 since it’s a field target rifle. In a real test, who knows.
One-piece mounts have no advantages over 2-pc. All they have are disadvantages. Two-piece can be adjustable, they are far more flexible for mounting and they’re just as strong as 1-pc.
HAPPY FATHER’S DAY, BB!
my powerline 880 has been through about 750 shots since i got it, and i think i should oil it soon…should i use silicone oil, or pellgunoil?
I have heard the air arms shoots .2 inch groups at 50 yards and I believe it. I have shot groups JUST larger than that with my theoben (.22). I always have liked 22 caliber more than 177 but i keep hearing 177 has better accuracy. I know there are more target guns in 177 and a larger pellet selection but it shouldent make a differance in pcps that are the same except the caliber.
Do you think .177 has better accuracy in the same gun in .22?
thank you and happy fathers day.
I have been through several fill ups of my Logun Solo with my handpump. I have some spray silicone lube, and I was wondering if that is okay to lube the o-rings on my fill probe? Thanks for the help.
Specifically about your comment referencing 1pc vs 2pc mounts…can you tell me if the bsquare 10037 ring has a rounded bottom to accomodate a rounded mounting surface such as what is found on the grooved receivers such as hammerli storm/gamo shadow1k. I’m doomed to using a BSA red dot on my hammerli storm (and even that doesnt fit quite right) until I can figure out what 2pc adj ring will fit properly on it. I can find no pics that show the bottom mounting surface part of the bsquare 10037, whether it is flat or slightly concave. My guess is that if it is flat then I would have the same fitment probs as with the 17701. May have to call bsquare or pyramid tech support, but I was hoping to find the answer here. 🙂
I am new to airguns but not to shooting rifles, revolvers, semi Auto’s,BB guns etc….
I bought a crosman sierra pro which crosman told me was really a Remington Summit? It came with a scope I installed,a crosman 3-9-40 AO.Anyway I have only shot about 50 shots, gamo wadcutters and initially was 12 in. low, 8 inches to left… I am very disappointed and feel like exchanging it for a Gamo or Beeman.The sierra Pro has a heavy trigger, hard to cock.Crosman doesn’t have specs on either item. I’m an old guy and it isn’t the fun I thought it would be.
Should I give it more of a chance or exchange right away?
the sierra pro is the summit(same gun, but instead of open sights, it has a muzzlebreak). it has the same internal parts as the genesis, which bb just finished a report on, so check it out before you do anything.
Thanx Dave, I will look BB’s comments up on the Genesis.
Use Pellgunoil or what the Daisy manual recommends, which is 20W non-detergent motor oil.
Your question about accuracy comes up all the time. I will blog it tomorrow.
Don’t use spray silicone on anything. Use diver’s silicone grease.
B-Square experimented with rounded profile scope mount bottoms and found it didn’t work. Every airgun has a different profile. Also, the three points of contact you get with a flat-bottomed mount work perfectly.
Thanks for that…that explains why even the bsa red dot which has a great mount, doesn’t fit right. Even it has a rounded mounting profile. I’m gonna try the 10037 rings and see if that works. If not, I’ll put the red dot back on it and wait for some other options. Meanwhile, the Hammerli Storm is absolutely deadly accurate with the red dot at 10-30 yards…or I can adjust the red dot for farther and it’s spot on until out to about 60 yards, then shooting style/hold starts to affect accuracy.
Dave, I read the Genesis reports thjat BB wrote and I think I am having the same problems that BB initially ha. He did say that the GAMO Shadow 1000 was a very strong competitor, so I thinkI’m going to bring the gun back and get the Gamo shadow 100, I am waiting on a response from BB. The SierraPro i a much heavier gun as well, almost 8 lbs. Since I want the gun from pest control and field target shootingI think I should have gotten the Shadow 1000 in the first place. The shadow 1000 was easier to cock and didn’t seem as loud.
i personally think you’ll have more fun, and like the shadow better. give it a try, and if you dont like it, the worst that you have to do is return it. btw, im pretty sure bb did a blog on the shadow 1000 combo, which is the shadow with a 4×32 scope. check it out.
Oh man, I have a shadow1k and it is awesome for short range pest control. In fact, lately I had to take out 4 skunks that were pestering the dogs. A carefully placed pellet to the head with a CPH put them down immediately. Also have taken many gophers, rats, and pestbirds. Accuracy is really good IMHO. It is very light and not loud at all. the truglo sights are great. I put a bsa red dot on mine. Get one!!! I love mine!!!
Great INFO! I will check upon the GAMO Shadow 1000…. Will the sope that comes with it good enough? The sierra Pro had a veriable scope, 3-9-40 AO.BB suggested me looking at the BAM 40.177 as well. SO I amlooking at thattoo.I am new to this so if its too expensive for a new shooter I will go for the GAMO shadow….
Thanx AGain, I really doappreciate allyou help..
ive heard bad things about the scopes that come with gamos…you should probably pick up a different one for it
well, for hunting, the leapers scopes are really nice. make sure its rated true strength. for fun and plinking, go with the bug buster 2, but for hunting, i like the 4-16x50mm. its like $90, which is a really good deal. you said field target also, so for that, i would go with the king of swat leapers scope. i think a good comprimise for both applications is the leapers 6-24x50mm, which is $100. let me know how the gun works for you. also, when you get pellets for it, ive heard good things about gamo hunters, and crosman premier light pellets.
i just read what bb said, and i think the cfx is better then the shadow as well…unless you don’t want to spend that much…then go for the shadow. and i know for a fact that bb and tom gaylord wrote reviews on the cfx(you can get toms review on the pyramydair website, when you click on tips and tricks). also, i recommend the cfx in .22 over .177, in which case, the same pellets will probably work. just so you know, the reason why i say the cfx over the shadow is because it is more accurate, less hold sensitive/produces less recoil, lighter to cock, and i also like it because its about 2″ longer…i like long rifles. no matter which one you get, whether its either of the gamos, or the bam, youll really enjoy it.
Thanx Dave, I willgo for the SHadow 1000 for now and get the BAMB40 as I get into the sportmore.
I do have questions though, on the scope mount the 1000 comes with the a 2 piece mount and I think its a cheapo way to go,also because there is no scope stop hole but a small metal piece I am thinking of getting the single mount attachment and a more robust scope stop that GAMO sells. The pamphlet that comes with the gun says the more robust scope stop comes with the gun but that is not true….
Question to BB as well as you and GAMO owners is show I replace the mount and the stop. The 2 piece mount and the small piece of metal for the stop seems cheap compared to what I had on the Sierra Pro.
I want toreplace the scope that comes with the Shadowas well, what mounts, stops,rings,and scope should I consider?
Again, thanx, bernie
That small metal plate may seem cheap, but it works fine. I would not remove it.
i already have a few suggestions for scopes, and if you get a new scope, just make sure you get rings to accomodate it. im sure bb will not have a problem with the scopes i listed. are you looking for something a little cheaper? or did you not see my suggestions(above what i said about the cfx).
Dave, leapers 6-24x50mm, gottit, yes, a bit pricey but at my age all fun things are pricey, I will be able to use it on the B40 so I think I will get it….If I use Pyrymid air will they know what I need for the shadow?? I want the single mount,stop, etc… as well….
BB I assume you agree with Dave on the scope? I am calling the store in themorning. Since I’m in Ca, they may be 3 hrs ahead of me.
Thanx for your help, Bernie
Anyone know where I can get a hard case cheaply?
well, if you want a single rifle case, pyramyd sells them for around $20. double scoped rifle cases, well, the one pyramyd has is probably one of the least expensive ones out there. it is less expensive if you get it from walmart, but ive heard a lot about ppl getting less then perfect goods from walmart. i’d just spend the extra $20 and get the double case that pyramyd has. btw, thats a plano case, for both the single and double rifle cases. lol, ive looked completely through their accesories, and rifles, and ammo, lol, really everything they sell…i just love looking at this stuff, so i can help out a lot of ppl if they dont want to put in the hours of looking like i have.
if you want a single mount, just make sure it has 1 inch rings, high, and dovetail. accushot, which is also leapers, makes one for about $20. just make sure it has high, 1 inch rings. if you want a scopestop, any one will do really, and the gamo one is only $10, so i would go with that. if you call pyramyd, they will set you up…they know what they’re talking about, and theyre very nice and courteous to boot! either take my advice, or give em a call…theres no customer service like pyramyd’s!
Great Info Dave,I will take your advice and order from Pyramyd. I have to get the premire dome light wtys as well….
Dave, thanx for all the infoyou have given me, I appreciate it…
Under the newer gamos scope stop is a scope stop pin hole. Either should work fine.
Is the scope stop pin hole the same hole that the screw that holds thesmall metal piece on the barel or a different hole?
Appreciate your help, Bernie
“Use Pellgunoil or what the Daisy manual recommends, which is 20W non-detergent motor oil.
So, BB, are you really saying I could buy a can of 20W ND motor oil and have enough airgun lubricant to last me several lifetimes? This is what I could lube the head of CO2 cartridges with instead of Pellgun oil?
On a gun that has the metal recoil stop plate, there is not stop pin hole. Those guns have receivers that are too thin for a stop pin hole. Use the recoil stop plate only.
No! 20w oil is used on the seals of Daisy single-stroke pneumatics. Pellgunoil is for CO2 seals, universally.
If I have said anything different than this in any place, I am now rescinding that.
Ok,I ordered the LEAPERS 6-24×50 AO Varmint Scope with Illuminated Reticle. the Gamo 1-Pc Mount w/1″ Rings, 3/8″ Dovetail,Gel Shooting Support, and CROSMAN .177 Premier Domed Light , Caliber – 0.177″, Qty – 1250, Weight: 7.9 gr .I will get the double hard case locally. I can’t wait for the new scope to arrive, I will use the old scope for spotting. unless I can sell it.
I will site the Shadow 1000 this week without a scope to see how it goes.
OK BB will use the small metal scope stop that came with the gun
Dang! And here I thought I’d found a way to save a bundle on Pellgun oil! Anyway, thanks for the warning.
Should I get a cleaning rod to clean barrel if I use the pellets that also claim to clean.I was told to shoot a few as is and then put a drop of oil on the last and fire one last time to clean. Will a 22 rifle cleaning rod fit the barrel properly?
if you want your gun to shoot as well as it possibly can, you’re gonna want to clean it with jb non-embedding bore compound, and a dewey rod, with appropriate end pieces to go on the dewey rod.
Will do, thanx Again…
Is this what I need,in what length, etc… also, they do not sell the jb non-embedding bore compound.I guess I’ll have to look this up too, lol
.17 and .20 Caliber Nylon Coated Rods
etc, what lengths.
pyramyd sells it, look up the accesories, and then click the maintenence and cleaning, and youll see the compound, and the dewey rods, and all tips for the dewey rods. it ends up being a bit much for cleaning stuff, but bb did a post saying that 3 piece rods can damage you barrel….i say, if you’re gonna make a few hundred dollar investment, i would make sure i dont destroy it, lol. if you do just want basic cleaning, you could get a regular cleaning kit, but you will lose some accuracy, because it wont give you the cleaning that a dewey rods and the compound can get you.
i would get a nylon brush, cleaning jag, and a few bore mops.(the mop is what you would put the compound on, so thats why i would get more then 1…1 to apply it, then another one to remove excess).
i just checked the pyramyd site, and it looks like for some reason they took off the 26″ and 36″ dewey rod in .177…..i would call them in the morning about it, because i know for a fact they did have it.
Will do Dave, I will check locally as well.If I interpret what BB says correctly, he doesn’t recommend cleaning very often or at all?
he says to clean it when you get it, to get the gunk from the factory out, and then only when you notice it shooting irregular after that.
BB,this is sort of off topic,but are you aware of any manufacturers coming out with lookalike .177 semiauto military rifles or submachine guns?The lookalike pistol market is pretty big,you’d think they would try long guns as well.
Another slightly off-topic: Are .22 calibers weaker for their size? They pack a fine whoopin for sure, but I’m wondering if a .177 model and the same rifle in .22 are equipped with the same pump mechanism (pnumatic pump-ups). If they are, then wouldn’t that affect how much power they can deliver? Would higher pumps make up for that?
Actually, it’s just the reverse. Gun for gun, the .22 is about 20 percent MORE powerful than the equivalent gun in a .177.
I just received the scope, a leapers 6×24-50 and i am disappointed because it doesn’t fit properly. Apparently I have to take the rear sight off the Gamo Shadow for it to fit in the rings. I have to figure out how to do this. I bought the Accushot 1 piece high profile Mounting rings as David had suggested.
David, BB, can you advise?
Thank You, Bernie
Something is wrong. If you have to remove the rear sight, you will not be able to cock the gun, because the rear sight is mounted on the barrel.
The 6-24 is a very long scope, as you have discovered. If you bought two-piece rings, can you back the scope up in the rear ring to get clearance? If you bought one-piece rings there is no solution.
Won’t the dealer will take the scope back and sell you a shorter one?
BB, I have no choicebut to return it I guess.I bought the one piece mount. I am going to get a call tomorrow from Chris at Pyramyd. Do they have a shorter scope with same characteristics at the 6×24-50 or should I keep scope and just get different mounting rings, also will I be able to see over the rear sight and front sights? Geez I am dissappointed.I was told pyramyd would know what I needed for the Shadow1000.
BB,I see GAMO has comeout with a Silenceron one of there Pelle guns,do you plan on testing it?
When a customer places an order, the company has to assume that the customer knows what he wants. They don’t know that the scope you are buying will go on the gun you just ordered. I sometimes order guns and scopes that will not go together.
In the future if you are unsure of something like scope fit on a particular gun, ask the sales rep to check the fit before sending the order. They will annotate your order in their software tracking program and the package will not be sent until things are checked.
As for another scope with similar characteristics as the 6-24, let’s look at this a different way. A 6-24 scope is inappropriate for a breakbarrel rifle. Let’s select a power and size that will compliment the rifle and give you good performance.
The Gamo Shadow 1000 is a small, lightweight spring rifle, so let’s get a scope that compliments that. Take a look at this Rex scope:
It’s smaller, to better fit your rifle and it has all the same features that the 6-24 had. I notice that the description says it comes with rings. They say the rings are 11mm but the picture looks like they are Weaver rings, so make them confirm that it comes with 11mm rings, so you can mount it to your rifle.
These are two-piece rings, which you now understand are better than one piece because they allow flexibility in scope placement. But these rings have only two screws per cap. You can use them, but a better pair would have four screws.
The 40mm scope objective is much better suited to your straight-receiver Shadow (remeber the blog on scope mounting from a week ago!).
As far as seeing the open sights of the gun with the scope mounted (I assume that is what you asked) you don’t want that. When you mount a scope, that’s all you’ll use. The fiction of using both open sights and a scope at the same time is just that – fiction. Nobody does it for real.
I may test the Gamo Whisper at some time, but since I have already tested the TX200 that has had a silencer for the past 7-8 years, I already know that it works.
BB, I am sorry I didn’t put my name on the last ? about the GAMO Whisper Gun.Ok, its the same gun as the TX200 and if I may ask, how does that gun stack against the CFX that you say is a very good Springer?
No, the Gamo Whisper is not the same as the TX200. You asked about the silencing effect and I commented that the TX200 has had a silencer of the same type operating for 7=8 years.
The TX-200 is a better gun than the CF-X, as it should be. It costs nearly three times as much.
BB,perhaps you can make a few suggestions for me. I seem to have all pellet guns shoot to the left and low, Still on the target paper but not in any circle and there are 10, an inch apart and the center is the tenth. I am ~ 50 feet aay.I have the gun resting on a soft towel or the gel pad from Pyramyd… This has happened with 3 pellet guns.Tomorrow I am going to the range to site in the Shadow 1000 with the BSA scope that came with the Shadow. a 3×9 scope.
You need to use an adjustable scope mount to compensate for the dropp of your guns. You are shooting all spring guns I assume, because they are the ones with the drooping problem.
An adjustable mount, such as the one mentioned in today’s posting, angles the scope down, so the groups will come up to the right height. The mount can also accomodate left and right adjustments.
I’ll cover this for you in tomorrow’s post.
BB Thanx, Where is the posting on mounts you mention?
I guesss thats what it may be, I hope, cause I have never had this type of problem when I was hunting with rifles and shot guns in upstate NY. Or even in the army, lol….
Is it common for a drop of 8 inches at 50 feet? With my old Crosman BB gun I had a drop but acceepted it and made adjustments in my aiming. I think I will start taking my 22 pump winchester(has a scope too)to see if I get the same drop. BTW I am told the winchester , model 61, is an antique? The scope thats on the shadow has elevation and wing adjustments, 1/4 inch at 100 feet. so it takes a long time to sight it in. at least for me cause I don’t have a short cut.
Thanx BB. I am checking out that scope you mention and the picture of it, as you point out the rings only have 1 screw on each side , this bothers me too. Is there a mount that has 4 ?
I have written a posting just for you on this topic. It will be in tomorrow’s blog.
When you adjust your scope, you set it so the pellet rises for the first 20 yards, stays flat until around yard 30 and falls to about three inches low at 50 yards.
If you’re looking for articles about sighting in a scope, be sure to read Tom Gaylord’s articles. Go to the home page of Pyramyd Air and click on Airgun Tips & Tricks in the left column.
The Winchester 61 is a classic, but not yet old enough to be an antique. It’s one of the finest .22 rifles made, in my opinion.
You won’t get a drop of more than about 1.5 inches at 50 yards from a .22 long rifle because of the faster velocity, plus the bullet retains velocity better than a pellet.
BB, I am looking for the Gaylord Article… and I will wait to go to range until I read your article tomorrow. The range where Iam shooting has a 10, 15 and 25 yrd hand gun range I have to use, the riflerang is way tolong, 100 yrds, etc… When I last went I used the 25 yd range and again all of my groupings where low to the left….
I didn’t know there where adjustments for the mounting rings Ithought the adjustments where on the scope itself?
These are special adjustable scope rings (mounts). Most mounts don’t adjust.
BB, Is it a better/quicker, etc… way to adjust than messing with the scop[e adjustments?
PS: I am reading the 3 articles on sighting that Gaylord wrote. When will you have the Blog article done?
For the third time – tomorrow.