by B.B. Pelletier
Today I’ll test the velocity of this inexpensive, yet surprisingly well-acclaimed UTG Navy Seal pistol. Before I do, I have to remark on the comments I received. This pistol strikes a chord with many of you who are looking for a high-quality, low-priced airsoft gun.
One reader advised me to consider the SIG Sauer SP2022 HPA from Cybergun. I looked at it online and, to my surprise, it has a perfect 5-star rating. There are only 4 reviews, though, while the gun I’m looking at now has 25. The Mk 23 has more perfect reviews than the SIG has reviews in total, so I don’t want to start discrediting this gun just yet.
I was asked to check both velocity and accuracy with and without the fake silencer attached. That’s what I’m doing.
Hard cocking!
One comment I must make is that the Mk 23 is especially hard to cock. I don’t know the reason, but it seems to take more effort than other spring-piston airsoft guns in the same power range. Once you get used to it, it isn’t a problem, but I thought I should mention it, because a new shooter might think his gun is broken when it’s just difficult to cock.
0.20-gram Air Venturi CQBBs
0.20-gram Air Venturi CQBBs were the first to be tested. They averaged 221 f.p.s. with the fake silencer off. The spread went from 218 f.p.s. to 224 f.p.s.
With the fake silencer on the average speed was 218 f.p.s., which is pretty close, but the overall spread went from 213 f.p.s. to 226 f.p.s. Having that can mounted is disturbing the BB in flight. It’s not an extension of the barrel. It’s just a hollow tube about a half-inch in diameter.
0.20-gram Tokyo Marui black BBs
The next round I tested was the Tokyo Marui black BB that Pyramyd Air discontinued some time ago. With the can off, they averaged 214 f.p.s. with a spread from 210 to 218 f.p.s. When the silencer was on, they averaged 211 f.p.s. with a spread from 209 to 213. They were more uniform across the board and less disturbed by the silencer than the Air Venturi CQBBs, but also somewhat slower.
0.12-gram generic BBs
Since the gun is also listed with 0.12-gram BBs, even though there are many warnings not to use them because they curve, I tested them for velocity. I have several thousand generic blue BBs laying around, so that’s what I used. They averaged 297 f.p.s. and ranged from 274 f.p.s. to 305 f.p.s. without the silencer. With the silencer, they averaged 293 f.p.s. and ranged from 277 f.p.s. to 299 f.p.s.
Where does that leave us?
The advertised velocity with 0.20-gram BBs is 220 to 240 f.p.s. The gun I’m testing averages 221 f.p.s. with the fastest 0.20-gram BB I shot. That’s right on the money! The advertised velocity with 0.12-gram BBs is 310 to 320 f.p.s. The only 0.12-gram BB I shot in this gun averaged 297 f.p.s. So, it’s close enough to say that it meets spec. If I had shot other 0.12-gram BBs, who knows if they would have been any faster.
I can also say that there’s no velocity benefit to adding the fake silencer. If anything, there’s a slight detriment, but it’s too close to call. It will be very interesting to test the gun for accuracy with the silencer on. I’m guessing it’ll be noticeably less accurate because the turbulent muzzle blast is allowed to associate with the BB in flight for roughly four inches before it exits the silencer. That’s a long time to be buffeted by turbulent air.
The silencer
This gun doesn’t need a silencer to be quiet. I own a real firearm silencer and this airsoft pistol is much quieter than any of my silenced firearms. I’ve also heard the finest airgun silencers, and this pistol sounds roughly equivalent to all of them. That’s with the silencer off or on–it makes no difference. The silencer is just for looks.
nobody intrested in this
try again
B.B.,
Is the .308 Exile usually filled to 3000 psi, 4200 psi, or somewhere in between? If there is a range of fills, why?
Give me a few days to get to that evaluation of MicroMeter 3600 psi fill and the .25 Condor #shots.
– Dr. G.
Dr. G.,
Quackenbush big bores have a nominal fill pressure of 3,000 psi, but most of them do better with a little more pressure. My .458 Long Action (Quackenbush now calls his .457 LA a .458, because that’s the actual bore size) prefers a 3.500 psi fill. It gives 2 good shots at that pressure and groups in about 1.5 inches at 50 yards.
Good deal on the Condor experiment. It’s worth waiting for.
Let’s make a guest blog with it. No pix needed.
B.B.
Hello Everyone,
The airsoft segment of airgunning seems to be growing by leaps and bounds. Entry level for younger adults?
Dr. G.,
The more I read about the airforce guns the more intrigued I am. I wish I could get over the looks. Why won’t someone make a more traditional looking gun that has the accessory options, power adjustability and air options like these airforce guns?
B.B.,
It was not my intention to add to your work load in suggesting another part to the diana 27 series. Nonetheless, I’m looking forward to the accuracy segment.
kevin
Kevin,
No problem! It seems several other readers have the same idea, so it is a natural.
B.B.
I think the airsoft guns are very interesting.they do offer a chance to nurture enthusiasm in shooting sports to younger people,who learn the fastest…my only concerns involve parents who buy one as an expensive babysitter.even then,my concern is more about the parent’s decision…
Dr.G,yes,please keep us posted with your Condor experimentation…your 30 yd groups are a little loose at 5/8…was that the 24in. barrel? Frank B
I’m a long time avid airgunner and I’m also like airsoft. I already own a few. I also started my son’s interest in shooting with airsoft when he was 8 YO last year. He learned basic sighting using irons. Learned how to hold pistol and rifle. He also learned how to re-load a magazine. The bonus is he doesn’t have to handle lead. Though I still got him into the habit of washing his hands after a shooting session, to get him started with the habit when we move to using lead. He’s now using airguns with BB’s.
BB, please keep up the articles on airsoft guns. As you found out in the Airwaves a few months ago, there’s a growing number of airsoft gunners out there.
Thanks.
Thanks for the continued review. I’ve found airsoft spring pistols to be sort of addictive and begun a couple of collections. In particular metal bodied pistols, not usually high quality, but fun, and the KWC HPA pistols. I’ve not had a bad one yet. Any reviews you can do of the higher end spring pistols or shotguns would be appreciated.
I did not intend to disparage the MK23 with my comment. I find the Sig 2022 to be more user friendly. It is easier to cock and easier to shoot accurately, though that is a relative term with airsoft.
I know you’re bucking most of your loyal readers when you review airsoft and I appreciate it.
Dr.G
Are you going to tell us when you blow the pump or the tank?
twotalon
twotalon,
Any idea on how to chrony a flying burst valve?
BB:
Here’s a basic, off-topic question for you to answer when you have time.
You tell newbies over and over that airguns normally need no bore cleaning, since there are no ignition gases and no copper from jacketing.
However, in reading some old blogs, I saw a comment from you that Crosman pellets have antimony and will foul a gun’s barrel.
Since I shoot a lot of Crosman Premiers, I guess I have to now start cleaning my bores.
Is there any substance I can use on a day to day basis to clean the bores without going to the elaborate bore paste technique you have often described?
(You’ve made it clear that firearms solvent, such as Hoppe’s, is a no-no in airguns.)
By the way, I’m eagerly looking forward to the TV show. Hope the negotiations go well.
Mr B
No idea. The trajectory could be pretty unpredictable. Would not want to stand in front of it and get fragged.
Wonder how much thrust force 3600 psi can produce coming out the burst disk hole. I have visions of the pump and tank spinning end over end bouncing off of everything in the vicinity.
Safe distance might be 200 yds.
twotalon
Leon,
The only time you need to clean your barrel is when accuracy falls off. If you’re shooting crosman premiers and the accuracy doesn’t change you don’t need to clean the barrel.
If accuracy falls off there is not substitute for scrubbing your barrel with a brass brush loaded with JB Bore paste IF YOUR BARREL IS STEEL.
kevin
Leon,
Oil the Premiers with Whiscombe Honey. I have said that in many blogs, but you probably didn’t pick up on it.
If not Whiscombe Honey, then some good pellet oil.
B.B.
leon
I leaded the crap out of a TSS in only 50 shots or so by shooting dry cp pellets.
Shoving a pellet through the barrel with a cleaning rod had the feel of shoving the rod down 10 miles of bad road. Not the usual smooth resistance.
A dab of fp-10 works for me to keep them from leading.
Go sparingly , particularly if you have a springer.
The faster your gun shoots, the faster a dry cp will lead it up.
You could use about any oil that does not burn in a springer.
The whiscombe juice B.B. mentioned is very thick and sticky so will not be as tricky in high temperature situations.
Of course, if it shoots good without oil then don’t bother with cleaning it until acuracy falls off.
twotalon
Anyone,
Has anyone used KryTech to lube pellets? Good or bad?
kevin
kevin
Krytech wax lube for bike chains?
A lot of guys swear by it. Clean and dry as opposed to oil.
I have tried Dupont wax/teflon lube from ACE with pretty good results, but still have not learned how to keep from squirting too much in the tin.
twotalon
Are you guys lubing pellets for more fps or to help prevent oxidation?
Anon
Prevent leading and to protect the bore from moisture/humidity.
Different lubes can also affect accuracy a bit, but that is up to the rifle to decide.
twotalon
Anonymous,
Here is an article BB wrote about why and how to lube.
/blog/2008/2/how-to-lubricate-pellets/
.22 multi-shot
BB and others,
I was prompted to write this after the Part 1 report on the UTG MK 23 toy, but by the time my rant was done the blog for that day had gotten stale and I saved it for another opportunity. Without a doubt, there will be many who disagree, but I really need to get this off my chest – Is it absolutely necessary to cover airsoft “guns” (toys) in your blog?
I know that Pyramyd sells airsoft stuff, but that is a different world and wouldn’t it make more sense for them to give it the proper emphasis and find someone else to run an airsoft-oriented blog? I look forward to beginning my workday with the Pyramyd Air Report, and it is a letdown when I arrive to find an article on airsoft toys. Just one more time – I know this is my pet peeve, and I’ve got no beef with those who feel differently.
Other than being shaped like guns, what do airsoft guns have in common with most of the airguns that this blog reviews and discusses? There is no genuine accuracy, other than relative to other airsoft guns. They shoot plastic pellets that have to be spun to (maybe) take a straight line. The fantasy design emphasis is almost exclusively oriented towards combat weapons, and worst of all, the games they’re used for involve pointing and shooting at other people!
Maybe that’s the crux of the difference – would one point a firearm at someone under any circumstances? No, of course not. Would one do the same with any pellet or BB-shooting air gun? Certainly not.
How about airsoft? Clearly a different matter, since they are literally designed (as toys) to shoot at other people. [No quibbling allowed on this point, everyone knows that is the way most of these guns are used by most owners.] But to be perfectly honest, its the main reason I don’t care for airsoft – toy guns are for children, no responsible adult picks up a mechanical device that looks like a gun and points it at another person. How can anyone go through formal weapons training (much less actual combat) and think this is OK?
Does that make airsoft guns “wrong” or “bad” or necessarily a silly thing for adults to get serious about? No, you can’t make blanket statements like that (without qualifying it as an opinion), its in the eye of the beholder; adults do lots of silly things, so why start here.
It’s easy to find cosmetic similarities between airguns and airsoft, but I feel that the differences I’ve outlined (plus others I haven’t considered) distinctly separate the airsoft and airgun worlds, as well as the enthusiasts thereof.
Of course there will be those who like both, but I suspect there are more who favor one to the exclusion of the other. So please consider not mixing them together here. There is nothing in this blog about airguns that I do not find at least a little bit interesting, but airsoft toys leave me stone cold. There’s a lot of interest in airsoft, it deserves its own blog.
Brian
Brian,
This blog is for the benefit of everyone. We all have different tastes, likes, dislikes, preferences. Yet we all faithfully read the blog. The blog is well tended by BB, and generously sponsored by Pyramydair. Yes, there are days when the blog article doesn’t interest me. Those days, I skim the blog or don’t read it. But there are still others who enjoy and benefit from those days’ blog.
If you wish for an airgun only blog, which discusses articles that interests you, perhaps you can start your own blog.
Brian:
How about considering airsoft like a commerical from Pyramid Air which helps to finance this blog? Just a suggestion-Mr B.
AZ Brian,
Thank you for such a well-informed comment!
I used to feel much like you do. I saw no reason for airsoft guns, and was even less interested in them than I think you might be.
Then I tested one and was surprised by the sophistication of the technology. Would you be surprised to learn there are some airsoft long guns capable of shooting half-inch groups at 10 meters? I was.
I was also surprised to learn that some advanced shooters pour thousands of dollars into action pistols so they can take part in full-blown IPSC events. All they lack is the noise and danger of the firearms.
That was when I realized that airsoft guns have a legitimate place in the shooting world. They are not just for kids and they certainly are not toys. They can be used to teach the fundamentals of safe gun handling before graduating to a more formal range situation. And for that, alone, they have great value.
I don’t review a lot of airsoft guns and I certainly don’t go off the deep end on the technology, because that’s not what Pyramyd Air sells. But I will continue to report on airsoft guns as I have in the past.
B.B.
Brian,
I fully agree, but I buy airsoft guns because I can’t afford to shoot a MP5, sig-anything, or many other guns. Airguns are an all around better invention being more accurate, more durable, and more powerful. You can tell by the way airsoft retailers include the “full metal”, we airgunners expect high quality components in most any product. Also, most airsoft pistols are exactly the same under the skin and give no real advantage
Shadow express dude
Brian,
I can’t argue about the negative aspects of airsoft and also feel that what attracts younger people to it is the exact opposite of the principles one would want to instill in future airgun or firearms owners.
Apparently, airsoft sells like hotcakes, though, and many parents either don’t understand or don’t care what they are condoning, through lack of training or simply the unintentional negligence and purposeful indulgence prevalent in parenting today. Sadly, these are likely the same parents who go insane when another kid gets into a fight with theirs at school.
Wayne,
I think if you call the number provided for pricing and availibility on the page linked below, these guys can make sure you have a nice shotgun fitted to your personal needs.
http://www.purdey.com/guns/side-by-side/
Brian
Though I have no immediate interest in airsoft…I have just as little interest in PCP rifles.
But, as they say, variety the spice of life and I learn something in nearly everything B.B. writes.
BG Farmer…you bring up a point worth taking. Many parents do buy their kids airsoft because they think of them as toys…so it’s even more important like blogs like this to inform those parents.
But that thinking isn’t new.
I remember all too well when I was about 7 (this would be the mid 60’s). A bunch of us kids talked our parents into buying us b.b. guns. Luckily in those days they were pretty low powered because the first thing we did with out new ‘toys’ was to head out and play army.
Luckily no one ‘lost an eye’, but I did ‘nail’ my best friend in the family jewels. A quick trip to the doctor ensured it wasn’t too serious, but all we got was a stern warning from our parents to be careful or our ‘toys’ would be taken away.
CowBoyStar Dad
twotalon,
Thanks for the feedback on KryTech.
Yes, the KryTech wax lube made for bike chains. I’m reading about many pcp users that swear by it for lubing pellets. I think I’m about 3 weeks away from having my first pcp and I’m re-reading alot of B.B.’s articles. I’m like a kid 3 weeks from Christmas.
kevin
Thanks to all who answered me on the cleaning issue and suggested lubing pellets.
I’ve been using Crosman Pellgunoil to lube all brands, but I hadn’t gotten up the energy to make up that “honey” BB wrote about. I should have tried it sooner.
I appreciate everyone’s respectful comments about my earlier post – sure didn’t want to start a flame war.
I accept a lot of what was said, but the essence of my beef about airsoft guns remains. If an object generally looks and functions like a gun, I classify it as either a weapon or a (for want of a better word) toy; the sophistication of the device is irrelevant.
My classification as weapon or toy simply depends on how it is used. If “the gun-like object” is meant for shooting other people for fun, then it cannot possibly be considered a weapon, it has to be a toy.
If it MUST be handled as a weapon, and has an indisputable capacity to inflict injury or death, then it is a weapon – and it seems like anything that hurls a metal projectile at speeds over 300fps (almost all airguns) would meet that test.
Anyway, I’ve made my point and feel better now. ‘Nuff said.
Brian
leon
Pellgunoil is a very expensive way to go. It’s good for seals, but I doubt that it provides an advantage over any other oil lubes for pellets.
Any time you use oil or any other lube, use it sparingly. Just a film will do.
Careful if using a springer…a drop in the base of the pellet will detonate. Must be how Gamo gets their velocity figures.
twotalon
Brian,
I’ve been sitting on the sidelines about your airsoft observations but I feel compelled to offer several observations.
First, I’m proud of the group of people on this blog. Civil and mature. I know several other forums that are filled with types that by this time would have verbally picked your bones clean.
Second, I agree with the substance of what you admit is your biggest quarrel with airsoft. Kids shooting each other with them. I’m a gun safety fanatic and was brought up, correctly I believe, to never point a gun at something you don’t intend to kill. Although B.B. has written quite a bit about gun safety and shooting safely (even one confession I remember about shooting a couch) I think parents are responsible for safety not B.B. To assume that the purchase of an airsoft gun automatically insures kids will be shooting other kids with them is generalizing that all parents will overlook gun safety. The best thing I can say about airsoft guns is that they are a less lethal alternative to teach gun safety to our youth.
Lastly, like you, I have very little interest in ever owning an airsoft gun. Nonetheless, these articles broaden my gun knowledge and are welcome.
kevin
So Kevin…you didn’t say WHICH pcp you were 3 weeks away from owning.now you know on this blog we live vicariously through the adventures [and misadventures]of the people we proudly call our friends!I hope you feel browbeaten into elaborating about your choice.I’m gonna go out on a limb and say you won’t select a Condor or Talon…no,your tastes run more traditional.probably not a TDR{take down rifle},but that’s as far as I’ll guess.does Wacky Wayne have you looking at Air Arms? I give up… FrankB
Re: Lubing pellets
Has anyone tried using the powdered graphite lubricant that they sell in the key department for lubing locks? It seems that it would be easier to avoid over lubrication, would effect accuracy a little less, and would not detonate. I guess it would make your fingers dirty though. Is that the same stuff that some pellets are lubed with from the factory?
Since Pelgun Oil–and its cost–has been mentioned in these comments a couple of times, I have a question.
I have read that non-detergent 20w engine oil is an excellent substitute for Pelgun Oil. I haven’t seen any non-detergent engine oil for many years. Is it still for sale anywhere?
–Witt
Witt,
ND motor oil is available at big retailer marts and auto stores everywhere. Last time I bought some (for airguns), it was about $2/qt. You might have some trouble finding 20W, though; most of it is 30W.
For a crosman 2100, would I use
20W or 30W motor oil?
Ian
How much of the previous Diana 27 post is applicable to my Winchester 425 (Diana 25)?
Also, I have a Remington Model 41P 22LR I got from my dad who says he got it when he was 12.
I can’t seems to find a serial number and was wondering where to look.
Any ideas?
Mark
Ian,
I would use 20W if I could find it, 30W if I couldn’t. Actually, I would probably use some oil from the barn, but I can’t recommend it, since some people say the detergents and additives can harm seals.
Oil guys……
Compressor oil is usually non-detergent 30W. Careful not to get tool oil…it is thin and loaded with additives. Good for protecting metal but could eat up seals.
B.B. has said that Pellgunoil has a special additive to condition seals. You might want to keep that in mind.
twotalon
The saga of the RWS 350 continues.
The Buna-N 109 O rings arrived today. I placed the two shims back into the barrel seal housing and fitting an O ring, it popped right in – a perfect fit. I then fired off 10 shots of 10.5gr Crosman Premier .177’s. My high was 845 fps and low was down around 816 but the average came to 830 fps, almost 100 fps faster than before the tune and my discovery of the leaking breech seal. That puts me in the 16 ft. lb range – still a bit light (2 – 4 ft. lbs) when compared to others’ results with the RWS 350.
I put some silicon oil around the edge of the O ring and shooting another pellet, still observed silicon smoke so I’m still getting leakage but it’s much less than with the original.
Vince, the O ring is barely proud of the breech so my next step is to make a shim from a coffee can lid, as you suggested. I haven’t gone the solder route yet to determine what spacing I have between the breech and compression tube but that seems to be the next thing to do to help with the shim thickness. If only I had some plastigage, this would be alot easier.
I’m almost home it seems. Tomorrow I’ll call PA first to see if I can get another external spring guide as mine is really butchered and I don’t know if I’ll be able to straighten it out to fit over the spring (it’s the sheet metal tube that fits over the front of the spring for those of you who are interested.) Now to see if I have the tools needed to make that shim.
To add my 2 cents to the airsoft discussion, even though I have no interest in this area and even less in pointing a gun at anyone who is not threatening my or my family’s lives, I find I still learn a lot of interesting things – especially from the comments section! If I’m not particularly interested, as I wasn’t in melting of lead, then I just skim over it. And then read the comments section!
I have about 2000 .177 Benjamin HC pellets that I’ve had 25 – 30 years. The lube that was on them when new has dried and left a whitish residue on the pellets….It doesn’t wipe off very easily. Can they be used, do they need some kind of lube treatment, or should I trash them?
Add Dexron III automatic transmission fluid to the oil. It has the additives to protect seals and o-rings. It also gives it the red color of pellgun oil.
Tiru
Frank B.,
Volvo figured it out.
Wayne was a major influence.
It’s an air arms AA S410 ERB, 10 shot magazine, 22 caliber, walnut thumbhole stock with adjustable butt pad. Been waiting since before Christmas for PA to have them in stock. They got one. I bought it. Because of some miscommunication regarding another gun returned, then replacement shipped instead of instore credit, I’m about 3 weeks away from getting the gun but it’s coming. I’ve had the pump, rings, scope, pellets, extra magazines, etc. for a couple months. Just didn’t have the gun.
kevin
I found this on the Crosman forum.
What Pellgunoil really is:
May 14 2008 Larry Harris
Crosman Forum Member
Response to Crosman Pellgunoil
A while back someone posted:
“I got the material safety data sheet from crosman on pellgunoil; apparently
it’s just “monolec GFS SAE 30 engine oil” made by lubrication engineers, inc”
This would make it specifically Lubrication Engineers Monolec 8430:
http://www.le-inc.com/products.jsp?productID=158
This is also from the Crosman forum.
We have all heard the same stories of ND motor oil etc. If you put one drop of ND motor oil between your thumb and index finger and SLOWLY pull them apart, you will see how far your fingers separate before the oil drop breaks apart. 20 wt. oil will separate sooner (closer together) than 50 wt.
Now try that with Pell gun oil and note the relative viscosity (distance)before the lubricant column breaks apart. Keep in mind that the distances involved are going to be small and requires a Steady hand. But after awhile you will notice differences.
Now get your hands on some type of ‘STP’ or ‘Motor Honey’ oil additive (for high mileage motors) and try the drop viscosity test (now you know why they call it motor “honey”).
Now get some ATF Dexron (red) and test.
OK! one is way too thick and the other is too thin in relation to our benchmark Pell Gun Oil ‘viscometer’ (your finger tips).
Now mix approx. 50% STP and ATF (automatic trans fluid) and see how close you can match the Pell gun oil. Keeping in mind that Both products you are mixing are Non Detergent and seal friendly, red in color and have that same distinct feel of ‘stickiness’ that Pell gun oil has.
Nothing else I have ever felt has that same ‘stickiness’ (Long chain Molecular weight) that ‘STP’ and ‘Pell gun oil’ BOTH have.
Hope this helps.
Tiru
Everyone with different recipes for oiling pellets,
Why are you reinventing the wheel?
Whiscombe honey works. Tried, tested and verified. Not only by John Whiscombe himself but by B.B. Mix two-thirds Hoppes Gun Oil with one-third STP Engine Treatment by volume. Mix them thoroughly, and they’ll never separate. I store mine in a plastic squeeze bottle designed to hold fluids like oil.
All you need is hoppes gun oil and some stp. Quit trying to reinvent something that may harm your gun in the trial period.
kevin
Fred,
Good news on your journey to making the 350 better. I’m sure shims will get you the rest of the way there. Keep up the good work!
kevin
Tiru,
That’s really cool. How about UTF, it seems to be thicker than ATF to start with, but has the seal conditioners. Did you ever try it?
Michael,
The white on your benjamin HC pellets is oxidation. They didn’t have any lube. Todays pellets have oil, wax or graphite (crosman premiers in the cardboard box have graphite) coating to discourage oxidation. Your pellets are disintegrating. Melt them down and make bullets (B.B.’s planning on a future article about this) or try to sell them to collectors.
kevin
Everyone,
Re: Pellet lube
The only pellets that B.B. has consistently recommended lubing is crosman premiers. The reason is the antimony that is added to the crosman premiers can lead barrels in MORE POWERFUL GUNS not all guns. If I remember, it’s guns that shoot over 750fps? Otherwise you shouldn’t worry about it.
kevin
Kevin,
Thanks for the info regarding the disintegrating and/or oxidizing Benjamin HC pellets. I’ll just trash them and keep the little cans with the screw on lids that they came in.
Chosen Clay (Mark),
The topic about the diana 27 breech seal should apply to your Winchester 425 (diana original 25) since they’re the same era (leather seals).
Regarding your Remington Model 41P .22 LR serial number. Remington started putting serial numbers on the M/41’s in mid 1936. The barrel code will also tell you the month and year of manufacture. Look under the barrel just in front of the forearm. Numbers are usually faint. Here’s some more info for your model 41P:
There were 307.000 made and you should find a number of what order it was made on the bottom of the barrel and the end of the stock as well.
Model 41
Description: Targetmaster – Single Shot Bolt Action
Introduction Year: 1936
Year Discontinued: 1939
Total Production: Approximately: 307,000
Designer/Inventor: C.C. Loomis
Action Type: Single Shot Bolt Action
Caliber/Gauge: .22 Short, .22 Long, .22 Long Rifle
Serial Number Blocks: Starting: 00001
Ending: 307000
Grades Offered: Model 41 Targetmaster, 41A, 41PS, 41AS
Variations: Model 41A Smooth bore, Model 41SB
it was made between 1936 to 1939 by c.c.loomis
kevin
Michael,
I wouldn’t trash them. These may not be the epitomy of collectible pellets but some people will pay an unbelievable amount for old pellets. Have you tried selling them on the yellow?
kevin
BG_Farmer
I haven’t used UTF. Use ATF because it is thinner,it thins out the thicker oil and has all the correct conditoners. Works for me. And I have never had a problem.
Tiru
Kevin…. at the risk of being considered ignorant, what is the yellow?
Tiru,
I meant UTF (universal tractor fluid) by itself, because you might not need to mix it with anything else: it is thicker than ATF, but does the same job more or less. Also, there’s often gallons of it “freely” available to me:).
RE: ATF. Its good stuff, example=Ed’s Red.
Michael,
Re: What is yellow?
Ooh, oooh, I know that one…
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/
😉
Herb
B.B.,
I thank you for the blog suggestion re. the MicroMeter 3600 Condor fill, and you can do what you want with it…perhaps mix it with the report that I wrote on the Condor CO2 tank that you thought of turning into a blog, along with your added touches, and you are done for the morning.
KEVIN….Air Force air rifles are just too cool, way over the top. My AirHog Condor .25 fitted with Anthony’s moderator is my A-1, Never Fail, GoTo hunting gun for small creatures. On high power, Kevin, I know that you know what it does, and on “low power” (Micro-Meter tank) you won’t hear what it does….Regarding fitting it to the body and sighting…It took maybe 30 shots to learn the knack and another 200 to make it natural, and then another 300 for it to be second nature. It beats any other gun for hunting, no doubt about it, no sir!
FRANK B….Re. the group, I have no doubt that if I tried a few more groups and took my time then I would pull it together to 3/8″ and who knows beyond that…I look forward to trying it in the late spring and summer when things warm up, and I will remember to let you know if I get 2/8.” There are not a whole lot of other people who care if I do, so I appreciate your interest… In my note I did not make it clear that in this part of the United States February is a cold, damp, and windy month. Although I was in a “heated” garage and holding an insulated airgun, the wind was a blowin’ and the mist was a flowin’ and I was bemoanin’ that I was even there. ‘
So, I was very happy to get 5/8″ on my first 2 groups and head back to warmth. I am very interested in kowing what kind of groups you get (I assume you have a .25, which is probably not as accurate as the other calibers due to pellets available) using the Micro-Meter, which I am sure you find is not as accurate as running above 800fps. I would be very pleased to hear if you get 2/8″ or even 3/8″ with this set up, as it gives me something to shoot for..ha-ha, a poet and a comic too!
2-TALON: If you have some experience with blowing up tank safety discs or destroying pumps, then please let me know if I am treading on hazardous ground, as that is not my purpose.
BRIAN….I used to think that Airsoft was for pussies or odd men or just for librarians, and I was annoyed that BB put toys on this blog. Then, after I bought the toys for my kids and played with them myself, I appreciated them. It is good and healthy for children to shoot each other with toy guns, to crash skateboards, to send toy cars over cliffs, and to kill 100s of creatures an hour on the video games (this helps greatly with hand eye coordination). Yes, of course other than children and young adolescents it is only odd men and librarians that play with these things….As for whether toys have a place here, I think not…Especially those garbage spring pistols (see my Report a couple months back) which cost under $60, and really are toys in every sense of the word.
..However, I think that when discussing the more sophisticated (viz., accuracy, rate of fire, reliability) AEG guns (even the $85 Pulse), one moves into a category of Adult Toys, which is a transition between Toys and Non-Toys…. Sort of like if this was a real racing car blog and BB had a story on a hot go-kart with a special engine; ..or if this were a farming blog and BB had an article on indoor gardening under lights…anyway, as Wos. indicated with such prescience, there is little interest here in this type of toy, so I am sure BB will stop this nonsense. I hope that if BB goes on with these Airsoft Gun reports that at least he will stick to the AEG stuff or the high end CO2s, which now are okay in my book.
– Dr. G.
Kevin,
Wow, thanks for the information!
After using a lighted magnifying glass, I can not see any serial numbers anywhere!
My 41P has no serial number!
I do not see any filing marks or any modifications at all.
Hm… is it possible that I have a prototype or preproduction gun?
Mark
I HAVE the UTG Navy Seal MK 23 spring airsoft pistol B.B. is reviewing, & it IS a very nice gun ESPECIALLY for the money.
I've had over 20 airsoft guns, everything from AEGs, gas guns, springers, etc., & pistols, sniper rifles, & machine guns. I've also had my far share of $20.00 springer pistols, & IMO… This is bar far the best one I've seen yet in this category!
Is it harder to cock than most?
YES! A little, BUT… it has a large slide to grab onto, & feels very solid. For a $20.00 gun, that's about it's only downfall, & you get used to it very quickly & eventually don't even notice.
I'd rather have that, than the very flimsy feeling of most other $20.00 guns.
I've yet to find a better feeling & shooting gun in it's price range, not to mention that it IS powerful, accurate, durable. I've put thousands of rounds through it & have never had a problem with it!
Put all of that together with the fact that it comes with a metal fake silencer AND two clips, & I dare you to find a better gun or value for that price anywhere.
I currently have 4 springer pistols, the UTG M324 Spring Airsoft Sniper Rifle, a couple of AK47 springers, the rifle version of the HFC C96 Box Cannon Non Blow Back Airsoft Pistol, the KJW Mk.1 Gas Non Blow Back Airsoft Pistol, HFC M190 Full/Semi Auto Pistol, the Thompson M1A1 by Cybergun, & the KSC's M11A1 Submachinegun, with the last 4 being some of my favorites.
My top 2 favorites are the HFC M190 Full/Semi Auto Pistol, & the KSC's M11A1 Submachinegun.
If any of you have shot these, than YOU KNOW what I'm talking about!
The UTG M324 Spring Airsoft Sniper Rifle, the KJW Mk.1 Gas Non Blow Back Airsoft Pistol, & the Thompson M1A1 by Cybergun, are also very good guns too!
So when I say that the UTG Navy Seal MK 23 spring airsoft pistol that B.B. is reviewing right now IS well worth every penny… Believe me, it IS!
Just my $.02 but I had to throw it in, because I've had & shot a LOT of airsoft. 😉
Like I always say… Hope that helps,
– The BBA –
BG_Farmer
I think I got a little off track here. I only use the mixture for lubing my guns. The thinner mixture allows it to flow into the places it needs to go easier.
For lubing pellets I usually use Kry-Tech, Dupont dry wax, or a shot or two of 100% Silicone Spray. Kels or CRC. CRC seems to be more readily available in my area.
I dont like to use the oil mixture or pellgun oil for pellets as it leaves them feeling too “oily”. The others will leave a dry film once the solvents have evaporated.
I suppose the UTF would work fine since its seal and o-ring friendly.
Tiru
ChosenClay (Mark),
Lack of a serial number on your M/41 is interesting. Not sure if it would be a pre-production gun but more likely an early production.
kevin
Dr. G.,
Your hearty endorsement, along with B.B.’s, of the airforce guns is worthy of a second look. The performance and almost unlimited mod’s possible is attractive. The “star wars” wardrobe is something I’m trying to overcome.
kevin
If you took apart your utg mk23 including the springs and put it back together would it affect the guns fps and how hard and fast it hits?
Thanks
Sirasao,
Just disassembly followed by assembly shouldn’t make much of a difference to the gun’s performance. Replacement of the standard parts like the piston seal and mainspring with aftermarket parts would be the way to get improved performance.
B.B.
thanks BB,
i have one other question. Would silicon lube spray be the best type of lube to enhance your guns performance, including accuracy,fps,hop-up, and other things like making cocking easier, and so forth.
Sirasao
Sirasao,
Silicone spray will help lubricate plastic parts, but it does nothing for accuracy and you want to keep it away from the Hop-Up that works by friction.
B.B.