Sig ASP MCX Virtus PCP air rifle: Part 1

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Sig Virtus
Sig Virtus.

This report covers:

  • Lookalike and much more
  • Accuracy?
  • Hunting?
  • Semiautomatic
  • Description
  • Combination tool
  • Loading
  • Sights
  • Accessories
  • Air reservoir
  • Discharge sound
  • Trigger
  • Cocking
  • Safety
  • Summary

Lookalike and much more

The Sig ASP MCX Virtus PCP is a pellet-firing copy of Sig’s MCX Virtus Patrol rifle. The firearm weighs 7.9 lbs. The air rifle weighs 7.5 lbs. The air rifle is finished in gray, which is one of the finishes the firearm comes in. So there are a lot of similarities, but also a couple of important differences.

Sig is careful to report that the MCX Virtus Patrol is not an AR-15, because the buttstock folds to the left side of the rifle. There is no buffer tube on the Virtus firearm that an AR would require. The butt also adjusts to one of 5 positions to vary the length of pull. But the Virtus air rifle uses a 213cc air cylinder as its buttstock, so it neither folds nor adjusts for length.

That said, this air rifle does touch upon a wide range of interest areas for airgunners. I’ve already mentioned the lookalike aspect, but the Virtus does it with a difference. Most lookalikes are powered by CO2 and more emphasis is put on appearance than operation. There are a couple exceptions to that, but not many. Most are either BB guns or pellet guns that are useful to short distances, only.

Accuracy?

The Virtus pellet rifle is a .22-caliber 12 foot-pound air rifle that is supposed to have excellent accuracy. That puts it ahead of most lookalikes. I shot it at Sig Range Day last month and once I started using the back up iron sights (BUIS) I found the rifle quite accurate. But I was shooting at steel swingers at 10-15 yards and judging accuracy by where the pellet was chipping paint off the paddle. I want to see how it performs in the real world — against paper targets at real distances.

Hunting?

Yes, I did say the Virtus is a .22 and gets up to 12 foot-pounds. That puts it into the realm of air rifles that can be used for hunting. American airgunners may not be used to that level of power but our UK cousins do it all the time with success.

Semiautomatic

And here is the big deal of the day. The Virtus is a true semiautomatic. That’s great for us, but it destroys the salability of the rifle in many other countries where semiautos are prohibited. So this one is for us, as in the US.

Description

The Virtus is a .22 caliber 30-shot semiatomatic repeating pellet rifle. The firearm provides for caliber changes by swapping barrels, but I doubt the pellet rifle does or ever will. At least at this point there is no mention of that feature.

The air rifle is slightly over 37-inches long and the pull that cannot be adjusted is 13-1/2-inches long. The rifled barrel is 17-1/2-inches long. The flash suppressor that serves no purpose on an air rifle is the open-ended 3-pronged type that was on the M16 back in the 1960s.

Combination tool

The front sight adjusts similar to the AR-15 front sight, but you don’t need a 5.56mm cartridge to adjust it. Sig has included a combination tool in the grip cap to adjust the front sight, the rear sight, seat the pellet in each chamber of the magazine belt and tighten the Allen screw on the buttpad that slips over the end of the air tank. Not only is this tool invaluable for operating the Virtus, it’s also held in the grip cap tight, so there is no rattling sound.

Virtus combo tool

The combination tool fits inside the pistol grip, where it is held tightly.

Loading

To load the magazine you remove the 30-round belt. Load each chamber then insert the belt back in the mag on the central track and push up. It loads and unloads quite easily.

Virtus belt out

Take the belt out of the magazine to load it.

Sights

I know most shooters will mount some kind of optical sight on the Virtus, but it does come with fully adjustable open sights that flip down out of the way when you don’t need them. The butt is straight and the butt pad doesn’t adjust, but with my face on the air tank and the rifle shouldered, the sights align perfectly.

The front sight is an open post flanked by two protective ears — very similar to an AR front sight. It adjusts up or down for elevation.

Virtus front sight

The front sight is a squared-off post that adjusts up and down.

The rear sight is a flip-up peep sight with a smaller hole for precision and a big one for rapid target acquisition. The combo tool has a flat screwdriver blade to adjust it for windage only.

Virtus rear sight

The rear sight adjusts for windage and has an index scale for reference. There are two different peep holes to choose from.

Accessories

There is a Mil Std 1913 Picatinny rail on top of the gun that is about 21 inches long, so there’s plenty of room to mount optional equipment. There are no other Picatinny rails on the rifle but the forearm has M-Lok slots on both sides and on the bottom. Even though the airgun Virtus forearm is made of polymer, there is a standard for mounting M-Lok accessories to a polymer forearm. Tighten both polymer and aluminum accessories to 15 inch-pounds.

Air reservoir

The Virtus operates on a fill to 3,000 psi/206 bar. The tank will seem familiar to anyone who has used the Air Venturi 13-cubic-inch tank, as I did when testing the Sen-X Onyx crossbow. It has a male Foster fitting for filling and a gauge to tell you where the fill is. And of course it is regulated.

Discharge sound

When I tested this at Sig Range Day it seemed very quiet, but I was wearing electronic earmuffs on the range and maybe they masked all the sound. Pyramyd Air says it’s a 4 out of 5 on the noise-ometer scale, which is pretty loud. We shall see.

Trigger

It’s difficult to evaluate the trigger without shooting the rifle and that comes in Part 2, which is velocity day.

Cocking

The Virtus cocks via a charging handle at the rear of the action. Pull straight back and release. Once cocked the rifle cocks automatically after every shot.

Safety

The safety is manual — hurrah! It’s located on the left side of the pistol grip where an M16 selector switch would be. There is no setting for full auto. If you served in the military the chances are you carried an M16 or M4 and the switch will seem natural.

Summary

The new Sig Virtus has a lot going for it. In this series I will test it in the normal way and, if the accuracy warrants it, I will push the limits a bit. This ought to be interesting so sit back and enjoy.

98 thoughts on “Sig ASP MCX Virtus PCP air rifle: Part 1

  1. I have been waiting for this one.
    Good looking, 12ftlbs, and .22.

    Now for the questions….

    You say its a true semi auto.
    Does it use part of the air to cock the system, like a co2 blowback gun?
    Or does it use the same double action system as the co2 .177 mcx/mpx?
    Can you tell how the flash hider is attached?
    Does it use the same inner steel rifled straw barrel surrounded by an alloy outer barrel, as the .177 rifles did?

    If it is actually a 4/5 loud, and the barrel ends in 1/2×20 threads, a nice moderator would swap out nicely.

    Shot count while you are at it please.

    I have more, but these are the main ones.

    Ian


    • Ian,

      True semiauto. That’s what I meant when I said true semiauto in the text. It uses blowback to cock the hammer. As for the belt advancement, I need more time.

      The metal (aluminum?) flash hider is attached to the plastic-shrouded barrel by some means. It looks like it is screwed on because it has two flats for a wrench.

      The other questions are all in Part 2.

      B.B.


    • 45Bravo,

      The MPX has a moderator available from DonnyFL and if as I suspect the muzzle fitting is the same you have a source for adaptor and can(s)…call Donny he will probably already know.

      shootski





  2. It sounds to be just like my Sig MPX only bigger and .22 caliber.

    And are you sure it’s a true semi auto that is operated by gas or I should say air. If it’s got the same mechanism as the MPX I think its actualy a double action trigger.

    There are several digrahms of the MPX and MCX and I’m pretty sure they are double action. I’m kind of thinking the Vertus is too. I’ll have to see if I can find a diagram for the Vertus.

    And I dont know if the Vertus is bundled (from Sig) with the Sig air gun red dot sight like the MPX is. But it’s a great little red dot. And to know for sure it is the one I’m talking about it say’s Sig Air gun on the red dot sight.

    Anyway cool gun waiting to hear more. Oh and I would (not) use wadcutters in it. My first MPX didn’t feed those well and I think it contributed to messing the gun up. I have only put Winchester round nose pellets through the MPX I have now and no problems yet.


  3. BB
    Looking at my MCX, it appears to be a complete redesign of the CO2 MCX with nothing interchangeable. At least not the big parts. Velocity aside, both listed at 700 fps. A little low for a PCP in my opinion. 900+ would be better.

    I had to use an adapter to install an air tank and the stock release is obviously missing on this one. An MCX A2? The Picatinny rail seems to mount differently too.

    Ditto on the question of air cycling the mag instead of the trigger. A true semiautomatic? I noticed a mod to the lower receiver in that area. That could mean a possible conversion to full auto 🙂 This will be interesting.
    I will be relying on your info before I order this one. The MCX is one solid rifle and I expect this one is too. Can’t see why this was not made for select fire. I would have ordered it already.
    Bob M




    • Bob,
      True, both listed at 700fps, but the PCP is .22 not .177. Plus if it’s true semi auto, it will use air to do that. We all know there is not as many shots per say than with C02 with the same size tank. So I would rather have a 700 fps PCP than 900 fps PCP if it mean more shots. With it being a Semi, rapid fire will likely be in order. Pumping up or charging a PCP would be more time consuming than just popping in a new C02 cart. My feeling anyway.
      All that said, how do you like your MCX? How many shots do you get out of her on a charge? Have you ever clocked her to see how many FPS you are getting? I also like the idea of the 1,100 reg pcp tank you can buy for her, but it’s pricey. Sorry so many questions, I like the looks of the MCX but have never seen one in person.

      Doc





      • BB
        If it is truly semi auto and has the same action as the Sig MPX and Sig MCX I say they would make a good price point pcp even after buying the adapter and HPA regulated bottle.

        I think you can get the Sig MPX for around $169 and the bottle and adapter for around $89 I believe. That’s still a good price for a true semi auto (if the Sig guns we are talking about actually are). Heck even if they ain’t true semi auto they are nice guns that shoot like a semi auto. Basically same effect down range. We just can’t go full auto and there’s nothing wrong with that in my book.

        Oh and if they are double action they are probably more reliable than a semi auto version. From what I have seen anyway.


  4. Until I hear differently I would guess that this one has the same firing set up as Sig’s CO2 models that many owners have converted to HPA with Air venturi bottle. I think it is an odd set up to be semi auto action with a double action trigger. The trigger advances the pellet belt and releases the sear.
    Gerald


  5. True semi auto is the real deal, otherwise I prefer to stay with my Evanix AR6K which doesn’t pretend to be something else than a revolver.
    I only wish the frame was made out of metal and not plastic but In any case SIG steps to the future with this one. Being a European I certainly appreciate the universally accepted standards of the 12fpe and I love the .22 caliber version. It seems that it will balance shot count with power.
    B.B WE EXPECT YOUR NEXT ONE ON THIS ASAP.
    Bill



      • I shot the .177 mcx, and mpx a couple of years ago at the Texas airgun show, I liked them.
        Great for spinners and reactive targets.

        This model in .22, and the energy level combined make it very interesting as a plinker, and a fun pester/hunter.

        If the accuracy is there..


  6. If it has decent accuracy at 40 yards and a decent trigger, then I think maybe we can consider it a price point PCP. I am really looking forward to you testing the semi automatic Marauder. That might be the closest we get to an M1 Garand.

    Brent


    • Brent
      If it’s like the trigger in my MPX it’s good. I had double action triggers that were way hard to pull.

      My mpx trigger is very predictable. It feels like a 2 stage trigger with a medium pull first stage. In other words the trigger pulls halfway then stops and it will release right after. And no stacking as you pull the trigger to stage two. A little more pull and releases.

      I have to say I do enjoy my MPX. And shot count is really good at that. The slowest part of the process is loading the belt. It’s only 30 shots. But it is enough for nice plinking. I’ll take it over the 10 and 12 shot clips like the 1077 and other semi auto/ (dual action) guns have. The 30 rounds give plenty of plinking time per load.

      Oh and with my MPX and Winchester round nose pellets and Sig red dot sight I can hit a 12 oz. beverage can at 35 yards all day long standing unsupported.

      If you get one I think you would be happy.


      • GF1,

        If you can link the belts together you can cut two holes in the bottom of the mag and shoot it belt fed. Even if you cannot link them, you could get several and load them up ready to drop in the mag.


        • RR
          A piece of tape as wide as a pellet on the inside of the link should keep it together. The advancing arm will pick up on the belt on the outside and keep advancing it. The belt can just feed onto the ground if you want or make a catch container. That’s what the drum did on the Air Ordinance gun.


      • Gunfun,
        These questions below is what I’ve asked Bob. I’ll asked you the same:
        How do you like your MCX? How many shots do you get out of her on a charge? Have you ever clocked her to see how many FPS you are getting? I also like the idea of the 1,100 reg pcp tank you can buy for her, but it’s pricey. Sorry so many questions, I like the looks of the MCX but have never seen one in person.

        Doc


        • Doc
          I have the Sig MPX. Is a nice balanced short coupled gun. It handles very well.

          Around 200 shots on a 3000 psi fill down to 1100 psi is what I get.

          Nope no chrony readings. It will go through both sides of a aluminum at 30 yards and through one side of a Ravioli can at 25 yards. And that is with the round nose Winchester pellets.

          And think of it this way. The MPX is the short compact gun. The MCX is the medium sized gun. The new Virtus is the long one of them all.



            • Doc
              Sorry. No.

              Only the regulated hpa bottle.

              I have with other guns though. And I have to say for fast action semi auto type shooting HPA is the way to go. No slowing down in velocity when your pulling the trigger fast. And if you shoot in colder weather HPA wins again..


      • Gunfun,

        I have a Winchester M4 that can fill that role but maybe not at 35 yards, I’ll have to try it. I’m saving my lira for the semi automatic Marauder after BB tests it. I think that’s the closest we’re ever going to get to an M1 Garand replica.

        Brent


        • Brent
          I’m very interested in seeing what the Marauder semi auto is all about.

          I really have high hopes for it. I hope I don’t get disappointed.

          Hopefully we will know soon.


  7. B.B. and Readership,

    Tom knows this, but the rest of you Reprobates that keep debating DA (double action) or TRUE SEMI-AUTOMATIC; why on Earth would SIG Air put a Charging Handle on a DA action?????

    I’m embarrassed for All Ya’all!

    Now watch me need to Eat My Hat! (Still got some of the Chocolate ones B.B.? Dark Chocolate, 70+% please if I need to eat it!)

    shootski


    • Shootski
      Have you owned one?

      I have had two of them.

      When you put a new Co2 bottle or hpa bottle on the gun you do have to pull the charging handle. It does cock the mechanism inside the gun. And yes I had my other MPX opened up.

      You need to search sig MPX air gun diagram gun and look at how the gun works. Its linkages and such that cock the gun each time the trigger is pulled and advances the belt.

      Look and then post what you see. And you have always been pretty thorough on your searches. Your slip’n buddy. 😉

      Now the gun BB is reporting on I don’t know. Can’t find any air gun diagrams on it yet. All I find is the firearm diagrams. Probably to early for the air gun diagrams. But just because there is a charging handle on a air gun doesn’t mean it’s truly a semi auto.


      • Gunfun1,

        “Now watch me need to Eat My Hat!”

        Should tell you that I’m just having fun. Research nah!
        But now I’m going to need to follow your advice…
        I gotta know…!

        shootski




  8. Sig Sauer is really putting effort into airguns. I bought the ASP Super Target air pistol, and have not really shot it much. Very impressed with the overall handling and construction. How many BLOG readers have one? What do you think of accuracy?


    • JerryC,

      I received mine had some Crosman Copperheads on the bench and a 10 meter air rifle target. Hung on trap walked back to other end of basement and fired five shots unrested. Then life happened and I haven had a moment more to shoot anything. I did order a few thousand different light weight wadcutter pellets to eventually shoot through her.

      shootski


    • JerryC,

      I have one. I got it and then shot it once for 5 rounds at 10 meters for more ore less a functional check using some Crosman Copperhead pellets I found in a drawer of my shooting bench. Everything else in .177 was for 10 meter rifle. I have a couple of thousand various brand/weight pellets on order and just got my 10 meter pistol targets today. I have dry fired and loads of air blanks with it just to get the feel of it.
      So now to try to post a picture of the only five pellets I have shot with my SIG ASP Super Target at a 10 meter air rifle target before getting very busy getting my wife through her surgeries at Walter Reed. These were shot at 10 meters in my basement range, unrested, two hand, modified Isocelies hold:

      shootski



      • Shootski
        Close the page and come back and the picture will be posted on your edited comment. Or just wait a bit. Don’t repost. The pictures take a little longer to reload.


  9. “The Virtus is a true semiautomatic.”
    B.B.,
    That, combined with the power level, make this one of the most interesting PCPs you have ever reviewed (so far).
    It will be nice to see if the on-board tank can (at least) empty the 30-round magazine before the power drops below 11 fpe. It’s already an intriguing rifle; it will be more so if it’s accurate. =>
    Thanks again for all you do,
    dave


    • Dave
      It should be a real narrow velocity spread when BB chronys. Remember the bottle is regulated.

      I haven’t chronyed my MPX but I can squeeze off all 30 rounds with no hint of the gun slowing down.


  10. BB.
    Very nice. I hope it can be fitted with a moderator. It would be a deal breaker if not. I don’t want to have to go to the range to shoot my air guns. An un moderated PCP is a range gun for me.


  11. B.B.
    Hunting with a 12 FPE rifle. Wouldn’t that be extremely challenging? Would you need to be in very close, or be very, very accurate. I have always wanted a semi-auto PCP that didn’t break the bank, and this certainly is a nice price point, but don’t think it would be good for the ground-hogs and nutria, and we can’t take sitting geese. I am still thinking this is Eagle Claw territory, but there is not much good information on the .22 cal version.

    regards,

    Jane



    • Jane,
      Just curious, are you the Jane who’s married to Burt Bacharach, the Jane who was co host on New York live or the author from Australia?
      Carl
      Ps
      I could hook you up with a pump assist in exchange for a nutria expedition.


    • Jane Hansen,

      When I hunt Nutria around the Chesapeake Bay from my kayak. I use a .25 cal PCP that can put out at least 80FPE shooting 43gn dead soft lead slugs. I have not had one swim after getting hit. Ground Hogs in the Mid Atlantic states are much more wary, usually duck and cover if you get within 50 yards and show yourself.
      The UK hunters seem to hunt the invasive Grey Squirrel, rabbits, Hare, as well as sitting birds (Snipe?) is my understanding. Maybe one of our UK hunters can let us know what is considered the largest ethical prey for sub 12 FPE? I know they have 12+ FPE airguns but they just treat them like firearms with lots of hoops to jump through!

      shootski



    • Jane,

      Twelve foot-pounds is a low energy level, but in the UK hunters take small game out to long distances. I call 50 yards a long distance for a pellet gun. Yes, more accuracy is required, but accuracy is always required of a gun that kills game by bleedout and damage to critical organs. So it becomes more of a sportsmanlike frame of mind, as in not taking the shot if you don’t know you can make it.

      Twelve foot-pounds is definitely too low for larger small game like nutria and ground hags/woodchucks. I’m not arguing that it can’t take them, but that it shouldn’t be attempted because of their size. That’s the sportsmanlike attitude I spoke of.

      B.B.






    • GF1,

      From looking at that video, I would say that the trigger is definitely indexing the ammo belt, is PROBABLY releasing the hammer ( I think the mechanism fell apart before we could see the sear actually move out of the way of the hammer), and the trigger plays no part in recocking the hammer. I assume that air is being ported to a piston of some kind to accomplish that. In my mind that makes this a “semi” semi automatic. It also means that, with the ammo feed system being advanced by the trigger, it will not be a candidate for full auto fire without some serious redesign.

      I’m assuming, based on the limited data out there, that the the Marauder uses a spring loaded circular magazine and for that reason it shouldn’t require the trigger to advance a pellet. If air is used to recock the hammer as it operates the loading bolt, it will be closer to what a traditionalist familiar with firearms would consider a “true” semiautomatic. I hope that’s what they give us even though that design probably won’t lend itself well to a full auto mode due to small magazine capacity. Maybe a large capacity windup mag like the Tommy Gun had ????

      Half


      • Half,

        Wind up? That is new to me. The M-rod mag. does wind up,.. in a sense,… in that the more you load it,… the more spring pressure is stored. Is there a magazine that in fact winds up,.. like an old clock or watch?

        Chris


        • Chris,

          I’m pretty sure that the 50 round drum magazine for the Thompson SMG from the prohibition era gangster movies was just filled with 45 ACP cartridges and then wound up with a key that stayed attached to the drum. It looks much like a skate key, if you’re old enough to know what that is.

          Half


          • Half,

            Thank you. I did skate,.. some,… (read: Moose on roller skates) LOL!,… but Mom and Dad (now 80 and 82) were quite the skate couple way back in the day.

            Chris


            • Chris,

              I was referring more to the steel skates from my childhood. I think they were referred to as “sidewalk skates” because they were used outdoors. They had a rack and pinion system that you operated with a key to lengthen the skate to fit it over your leather shoe sole then shorten it to lock these little tabs, front and back, onto your shoe. I doubt if you could even use the darn things these days with rubber soled sneakers and rough roads being so prolific. 🙂

              Half


              • Chris
                And you still have both knee’s working on your body? 😉

                I had those skates too. Lucky I didn’t twist my ankle right off my leg.

                And I did roller skate indoors as a kid and even did ice skates on the pond playing hockey with my buddy’s.

                One thing I never did was roller blade though. Dont know why. Just never did.

                And we had a hill that we called the double hill that we use to sled ride on in the winter and jumped up down in the summer time with our dirt bikes. The first part of the hill was about 75 yards long at 45° going down then went level for about 15 yards (was a dirt road) then another hill about 50 yards long and was also about 45°. We did try skiing down it. All was good till that second hill showed up. Not good after that. I did survive though. No broken bones and alive still. And I’m not going to even mention what we did with our inner tubes and 4 will drive pickups in the snow out there. All I can say is it was a crazy good time and never will forget the times we had back then. 🙂


              • Half (It’s been raining everyday here in the Puget Sound area – most rivers are at or near flood stage and I got so bored I grabbed your subject of skates and just started writing. I hope you find it entertaining.)
                Well, I can certainly relate here. I’m kept silent mostly these days due to first, being on the west coast, the rest of you readers have already beat me to whatever comment I might have made, second, as a full-on subscriber to the sentiment of “What do you want to use it (your air gun) for?”, I’ll never have any use for a PCP which is what takes up most of this, and other, blogs on the internet, and third, I’m just too damn old to change. (Well, almost. I bought myself an Asiatic horse bow, some wooden arrows, and a thumb ring that I plan on learning a new skill set on. Also, I gave up my Harley and replaced it with a Royal Enfield Himalayan that I plan to explore Washington state with when it stops raining.) Back to the skates:
                In the early fifties, when I was about 7-yrs old, my family moved to Lubbock, Texas where my newly ordained dad took the position as associate pastor of the 25th street Baptist church. We were very poor at the time tho I didn’t know it. The church first put us up in a pretty run-down house that was mostly goatheads in the front yard and sand, lava rock, and horny toads. I was in heaven. One thing was missing. The neighbor kids were racing up and down the dilapidated sidewalks on our block and my mom could see how much I wanted to join in. She saved S&H green stamps from the local Piggly-Wiggly, and one day she swapped them in for a pair of those steel skates. Now, not only did I have my own horny toad heaven, but angels descended and were singing just for me. As I inferred, that part of town was rather run-down so learning to skate was much like learning to tame a motocross course. Slabs of sidewalk had to be jumped and the larger cracks avoided.
                Brother Bartlett, (they called preachers brother instead of pastor or preacher in those days) must have seen the value in having my dad around as associate pastor because he also let him be the Sunday service song leader, the choir director, the youth director, young adult Sunday school teacher and the janitor for the lodge hall located behind the church, used on Sundays for Sunday school classes. Of course, mom was also allowed to help Mrs Bartlett with all the Pastor’s Wife duties which I was not privy to and not able to recount here. The church moved us into a better part of town (I was devastated) into a beautiful house with real grass in the front yard and a garden in the back. The sidewalks were smooth as glass, wider, and the block was looong. Well, I had to switch from motocross to grand prix style – I got fast!
                I don’t know what happened to those old skates. They seem to have gotten lost in the move back up North. It seems dad had graduated from his apprenticeship and was now ready to start his own church. I missed the old neighborhood. Catching horny toads (horny toads don’t like grass lawns so I never saw any at the new place), visiting my pal Mikey and his family – the older brothers that taught me and Mikey how to dodge dirt clods and play stretch ‘em with our pocket knives, his second oldest sister that could lay the front of her tongue flat to the back since she was little when she stuck her tongue out at her older sister who promptly clocked her with an uppercut, and their dad who had survived a lightening strike, but everyone still suspected was not quite right in the head. As I mentioned we were all pretty poor. He fixed me and Mikey a snack once that was bread fried in bacon grease and then sprinkled with sugar. Yum! They would frequently eat what they called squab but I was pretty sure was just pigeons. Them were good ol’ days.
                Larry the Luddite from Algona


                • Larry Mo (aka Not Curly),

                  Enjoyed your story and sorry about your luck over there on the wrong coast. At least it ain’t CA, huh. 🙂

                  We always seemed to end up taking our skates apart and nailing them to 2X4s to form the front and rear axles for a push cart that we would race in the street. For those that have never had a push cart it is simply a 2X4 with half a sidewalk skate nailed to each end. This would be attached in a “T” fashion to a 2X6 with a through bolt that gave you a place to sit and a front axle that you could steer by fastening a rope to the left and right side, long enough to drape across your lap. The rear axle was simpler. Just somehow get half a skate nailed to each end of a second 2X4 such that the wheels were roughly parallel to each other, then get that nailed solidly to the 2X6 as perpendicular as you could get it using salvaged nails and half a brick. A short piece of wood is then nailed across the rear of the 2X6 to provide something for your Push Board to push against. Take it into the street, get the fastest, strongest kid you knew to agree to push, get somebody you trusted to hold the pink slips and drag race all comers. Details like where the pushing ends and the coasting begins and what does the pusher get for his trouble all get worked out as the afternoon rolls on. Great memories.

                  Ever raced inside a truck tire? Again, great memories!

                  Half


      • Half
        I had my first MPX apart when it stopped feeding the belt. Just to say a return spring came off the feed arm. So pretty simple fix. But what I want to say is if he would of kept pulling the trigger all the way in the video that upper arm is basically the hammer and the gun does fire after that arm goes forward and hits the valve.

        So what I think I can say is the MPX anyway is (not) a semi auto action. It’s more of a double action to me.

        Now the Vertus I dont know. It may be a true semi auto action but I’m thinking it’s not deep down inside if you know what I mean. I think we will have to wait and see when a diagram or a inside look with a video comes about for the Vertus. That’s the best I can say for now.

        But a note maybe to Sig here. If Vertus is not truly a semi auto they should stop marketing it that way and possibly get some sales over on the other side of the pond.


        • GF1

          The reason that I said “semi” semiauto is because the trigger doesn’t seem to cock the hammer. The gun cocks itself once you start shooting, unlike a true double action that relies on the trigger to reset the hammer. The Ruger 1022 co2 gun and the Crosman 1077 would be examples of what I would call full blown double actions. These guns are an advance from that at least. I’m assuming that, since your not pushing the hammer back against its spring, the lower effort is what makes the trigger good.

          You aren’t saying that the hammer is pushed back to the sear by the trigger are you? And does your gun have a cocker that has to be pulled back for the first shot like the Virtus?

          Half


          • Half
            I have to disagree with your thought on the hammer and trigger.

            First this and here’s why with the trigger. Yes it does have a charging handle that pulls back on the linkage going to the trigger. And it does need cocked if you put a new bottle on the gun. And on my MPX if I have my finger resting lightly on the the trigger I can feel it bump when the charging handle is pulled back.

            And now for the double action trigger thought and cocking the gun for the next shot. Think about a 1077. It works the same but with less moving parts. If we took the trigger out of the MPX or the 1077 either gun would not be ready to fire the valve. The hammer on both guns pull back and drop off the linkage which let’s the hammer slip forward and fire the guns valve.

            No semi semi auto I’m thinking.


            • GF1,

              I don’t own any of the guns in this series so I rely on your feedback to understand them. If you remove the regulated tank completely and pull back on the charging handle, I assume that the hammer will drop when you pull the trigger. If you now pull the trigger a second time and you don’t feel the hammer drop, I think you have a completely different mechanism than the 1077 or co2 1022. The air or co2, the gas, whatever, is cocking your hammer and that makes it more like a semiauto than the previously mentioned designs and I choose to call that “semi” semiauto. What happens when you charge the gun without a tank attached and pull the trigger twice??

              Half


              • Half
                The trigger moves the striker that hits the valve on the MPX.

                If you don’t have a bottle attached to the gun and pull the trigger the belt advance works and the striker works but no air is released obviously.

                Attach a full bottle and pull the trigger and the hammer works and belt advances but no air is released.

                Pull the charging handle with a full bottle and pull the trigger and belt advances and gun fires. What I believe is there is a check valve in the valve and doesn’t allow air into the valve so when you put a new bottle in it doesn’t dump the bottle. That’s the reason for the charging handle I believe.

                I may be wrong. See if you can find some more videos on the MPX and see if you can tell what the charging handle does and how it all works. Just make sure you post the video and let me know so I can watch it. That’s the best I can say right now.

                Will be waiting to see what you find.


                • GF,

                  By reading the questions and answers on the MPX and MCX guns at Pyramid Air, it seems as if the co2 is not pierced well or if the temp is low or if the cartridge is about out of gas the gun will skip pellets and require you to pull back the charging lever each shot to actually shoot a pellet out. That tells me that it is a “semi” semiauto gun that has to have gas pressure to cycle the striker back into lockup. The trigger is just advancing the belt and releasing the sear so the trapped striker can be pushed forward into the valve under spring tension. If pressure is low the striker doesn’t get reset and the belt just rotates to the next pellet when you pull the trigger.

                  It’s pretty much the same way the slide resets the striker on the blowback co2 bb guns it’s just hidden from sight inside the MPX and MCX. The one difference is that the trigger doesn’t have anything to do with moving a fresh BB into battery. That gets done by the spring in the mag. Pulling back the slide for the first shot is just like pulling the charging handle on the MPX and MCX.

                  Half


                  • Half
                    Well there you go.

                    If it indeed is true.

                    Don’t you just love doing this detective work.

                    Wish we would of known that from the beginning. As if it really matters to me. I just shoot them. I don’t sell them. But somebody gets paid for that. Not me.

                    If you can find a video. Action is always better than words in most cases anyway.


                    • GF1

                      I haven’t had any luck finding exploded drawings of these 2 guns and I’ve run into several places where people are complaining because no replacement parts are available. Did you say that you’ve seen some drawings somewhere and if that’s true can you put up a link or a copy of the drawing?

                      Half



  12. Gunfun1,

    I watched the video three times. I think I’m seeing it? I wish he owned a tripod, all the moving doesn’t help, you when trying to trace linkages that are moving. I can only understand half of his write up, firing nozzle is Greek to me!. I’m also not seeing what the Charging Handle does either. Can see his complaints as well as the need for proper lubrication with so much moving of so many parts. I hope the Virtus Operating System is better.

    shootski


    • Shootski
      He stops pulling the trigger each time and repeats right before the strike hits the valve.

      The last time he pulls all the way and the trigger pops out of location andtbe striker arm doesnt fire the valve.

      What is that telling you about the action of the gun?


      • Gunfun1,

        That he BROKE IT? Just joking!
        I understand it and DA and linkage operated if I understand your question.

        I want to see a mechanical rawing of the MCX Virtus and I’m WISHING real hard that it is Semi-Auto all the way, self loading and cocking with Hpa!

        shootski


        • Shootski
          I want to see the drawing of the Virtus too.

          I’m guessing it will be the same action as the MPX and MCX. I may be wrong but it’s what I think.

          Hopefully we will know about the Virtus airgun soon.


    • Shootski
      I need to say this and as usual was in a hurry to post my other comment.

      This is kind of something important for me when I watch a video.

      The sound is (off). I want to pay attention to the video so I can concentrate on what I want. Not what they want me to pay attention to show in the video. I might watch certain parts of the video 2 or 3 times or more to get what I want out of the video. Then maybe and as I say maybe I might turn the volume up and hear what they have to say. Then I see if I pick up on something I miss.

      Just the way I roll. What can I say.



  13. Hi guys – lots of good information…

    Chris USA – No, I am not limited to 12FPE, I just never thought of 12 FPE as hunting material, and was curious as to B.B.s comment.

    Codeuce – None of the above, (but I’d have better air rifles if I were)…

    Shootski – 80FPE !, must be some rifle, I am quite sure it would take me a week to pump that up. Where abouts on the Chesapeake do you go, I visit on occasion.

    Gunfun 1- I agree with B.B’s comment, I would not likely try a small bird at 35 yards with a 12 FPE rifle, I don’t think 12 FPE is really humane, )maybe unless you’re nearsighted in the UK and shoot very small squirrels.

    Doc Holiday – I once shot the Hammerli 850, it’s very impressive for CO2. At 750 FPS with a 12 grain projectile, it’s probably just over 12 FPE. It didn’t seem powerful enough to hunt with.


    • Jane

      The pellet will go right through the bird like its a aluminum can at that distance.

      Been there done that. Have a lot of experience pesting. Yes 12 fpe will take a bird very easily at 35 yards. The questions are. Are you and is the gun accurate enough. That’s the humane part. And yes I grew up on a farm pesting to get rid of threats to the farm and hunting to have food on the table. You learn your guns very well in those situations. Do you know what I mean by that. Distance to shot come to mind real quick.

      I can see by your comments that you are asking questions and probably have no experience in pesting and hunting. Or maybe some with other guns. Well ???


    • Jane,

      I started back into air gunning with springers. TX200 and LGU. Both were great. Both .22. I eventually went all PCP. Much easier to shoot better,… quicker. I have the .22 Maximus (now regulated), a .25 M-rod in an RAI stock and a .25 Red Wolf HP which I just love. Yes, I do have a auto pump and tank. (Shoebox and a 98 CI CF tank) On hunting with 12 fpe,.. I would hold it to squirrels at 25 yards with good placement. Vana 2 (aka: Hank),…. has a “rule” of what range can I hold 1″ at? Bench may be one range, braced may be another and off hand may be another,… all progressively closer. I do admire the UK 12 fpe shooter’s skills and discipline.

      Hoping to hear more from you.

      Chris


      • Chris U

        I know that 12 fpe is the limit without a firearms license it the UK, but I think many of the hunting videos that we see from the UK on YouTube, for example, may be made by shooters that have firearms permits and are hunting with more powerful guns at the longer ranges. I’d like the Brits that read this blog to give us some insight into what the common practice is as regards small game hunting across the pond. I also want to say congrats on Brexit to those same British readers.


        • Half,

          Yes, hearing more from the UK would be nice. (Though,… I can imagine,… they are deeply envious of the US and our air gun laws,… for the most part) I would be for sure! I caught some conservative radio recently and discovered that there is some parallels to the current US environment. Yes,… a move in in the right direction.

          Chris


  14. Hey Gunfun – I’ve been hunting since a child with my dad, he never had a son so I had to fill in, We didn’t use airguns. The only reason I started with PCPs was for pesting – eradicating the vermin that kept encroaching onto my yard and digging huge holes in it. That’s when BB did his review of the Shinsung Career Infinity, which was a brute of a hunting rifle that my Korean friends used to take deer with. I gave that away when BB reviewed the Blizzard, and I bought the S-10. It’s good but it’s not the Career, it’s getting old and it appears now an orphan. I am hoping the new Eagle Claw is better. I understand the objective but I have not yet seen a hunting air rifle that can reliably take a head-shot to a bird at 35 yards – they just aren’t that good, (at least not with me shooting). You more-or-less need to hit them with something that will do the job no matter where it hits.


    • Jane
      Oh there are many pcps that will take a bird with a head shot at 35 yards.

      I think the answer is what you said. The operator pulling the trigger needs to do their part. That’s the trick. And of course that would be with the gun supported some way and the gun needs to be accurate too. Although there are people that can shoot pretty good standing unsupported.

      What I say is you have to have a accurate gun and you need to shoot that gun alot and learn and document how it shoots. The more you do that the more you learn what you and the gun can and can’t do. Its not only air guns but firearms also. And what you will find also if you shoot air guns and firearms enough is that air guns tend to be more accurate then firearms in certain instances. And the biggest thing is the more you shoot the more experience you get.

      Oh and by the way I have 2 daughters and no sons. One daughter is 22 and the other is 19 right now. They both started shooting at 7 years old. They give ole dad a run for his money but I still got some tricks up the sleeve. But seriously we have done a bunch of shooting over the years and they are both glad that they learned to shoot. Definitely good times.


  15. Jane Hansen,

    The 80 FPE is my favorite for kayak borne Pesting as it is all metal and an eight shot regulated bottle gun. There are many marsh areas on the Eastern Shore that have had big Nutria problems and almost no one hunts or traps them! They have done a great deal of distruction to the islands and shoreline. The number of times that the government(s) has declared them erradciated is almost a joke; if they eventually are that would be fantastic but it only takes one breeder and a male finding one another for the cycle to start all over. Here is a link: https://www.fws.gov/Chesapeakebay/conservation/nutria-eradication/index.html
    to the latest declaration of victory; lots of good history and information on where they could still be…. My kayak can get into places they have never seen from the water or land.
    My other airguns are mostly Big Bore going from .308 to .58 cal with FPE ranging from 200 to 550FPE without impractical length or weight. I favor Dennis Quackenbush’s rifles and pistols because he is a hunter that understands.

    shootski




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