Crosman MAR 177: Part 4

by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Crosman MAR
The MAR177 from Crosman.

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

History of airguns

This report covers:

  • Sighting in the MAR
  • Scope?
  • Shorten the front sight post
  • Back to sight in
  • The test
  • Gamo Match
  • Trigger
  • Sig Match Ballistic Alloy
  • Qiang Yuan Olympic
  • H&N Match Green
  • RWS R10 Match Pistol
  • Discussion
  • Summary

Today we look at the accuracy of the MAR177 for the first time. But before we do — a saga!

Sighting in the MAR

I wanted to shoot the rifle with the iron sights it came with first. To me putting a scope on a military rifle is a bit redneck, unless that rifle is a sniper rifle. 

I shot from 12 feet and the pellet hit the target 2 inches below the aim point. I knew it would climb when I backed up to 10 meters, but it only climbed a quarter inch. Oh, no — I have to adjust the front sight of an AR for elevation. No military person who has carried the M16 likes to adjust its front sight for elevation. It is a slow and tedious process of pressing down a spring loaded pin and turning the front post one click at a time until its where you want it. The rifle was shooting low so I started adjusting the post down. After three clicks the post bottomed out, as in no more adjustment.

Scope?

I then attempted to scope the rifle so the test could continue, but to no avail. I found umpteen things that stood in the way. The Picatinny rail on the receiver is too short to accept most scopes and anything other than a 2-piece ring set. The magazine sits up so high that only high rings will clear and short scopes present a problem because the flare on their objective bells gets in the way of both the magazine and the forearm. Fortunately I learned everything I need to know to scope the rifle when the time comes.

Shorten the front sight post

I didn’t want to alter the front sight post, but it would never work as it is, so I got out a Dremel tool and a small Swiss file and removed about 0.150-inches from the post. The rifle was shooting low so the front sight had to go down. Remember to adjust front sight in the opposite direction of where you want the pellets to go. The post is now down where I had wanted to adjust it in the first place. Perhaps a better BUIS front sight would give more adjustment — I don’t know.

Back to sight in

I knew the rifle would now be close at 10 meters. Lo and behold it was now in the black! With the first pellet it was perfect for height, so I left it where it was for the remainder of the test.

The test

I shot 5-shot groups to speed things up, as well as allowing me to test more pellets. I shot off a sandbag rest at 10 meters with the rifle rested directly on the bag. The A2 stock on my AR prevents me from getting as close to the peephole as I would like. This is where a good 6-position adjustable stock is nice to have.

Gamo Match

The first group we will look at was made by 5 Gamo Match pellets. They went into 0.264-inches at 10 meters. We are off to a good start!

Gamo Match target
Five Gamo match pellets went into 0.264-inches at 10 meters. They are a tad low, so if I were shooting them for score I would have to lower the  front sight just a bit more.

Trigger

I noticed right away that I needed to get used to the Geisselle trigger once again. Maybe that’s because I was now shooting targets and not just testing the velocity, but I think each time I shoot the rifle the trigger needs a short break-in, or I need a brief familiarization. It’s a strange thing, and I’m recording it now so I’m aware of it next time.

Sig Match Ballistic Alloy

Next up were 5 Sig Match Ballistic Alloy pellets These are sometimes very surprising and today was no exception. They produced the best group of the day — five in 0.152-inches. It was almost a gold dollar (under 0.15-inches, C-T-C) and was most worthy of the trime (under 0.20 C-T-C).

Sig Match target
The MAR177 put 5 Sig Match Ballistic Alloy pellets in 0.152-inches at 10 meters. This is the only trime-worthy group of the test.

Qiang Yuan Olympic

Next to be tested were 5 Qiang Yuan Olympic pellets. They were almost perfectly centered on target in a group that measures 0.226-inches between centers.

Qiang Yuan Olympic target
Five Qiang Yuan Olympic pellets were close to the center of the bullseye and measure 0.226-inches between centers.

H&N Match Green

The next pellet I tried was the H&N Match Green target pellet. Sometimes these are very accurate. but this time five of them went into a group that measures 0.388-inches between centers. It’s the largest group of this test.

H&N Match Green target
The MAR177 put 5 H&N Match Green pellets into a 0.388-inch group at 10 meters. It’s the largest group of the test.

RWS R10 Match Pistol

The last pellet I tested on this day was the 7-grain RWS R10 Match Pistol pellet. I actually fired it first, but I wasn’t settled down and the group was not indicative of what the rifle can do. So I shot a second 5 of them at the end of the test and got a 0.247-inch group. That is representative of what the MAR177 can do with this pellet.

R10 Match Pistol target
Five RWS Match Pistol pellets went into 0.247-inches at 10 meters.

Discussion

I’m pleased with the results of today’s test, though I don’t think I have found the best pellet yet. The magazine is breaking in and now seats in the receiver quite easily. And most pellets drop all the way into the chambers of the mag without any help.

I think the time I spent working on the sights distracted me a little and I would like to have another go at this, now that I have the sights where they need to be. I would really like to find the best pellet.

I do plan on shooting with a scope, as well, but I want that to be a separate test, after I have finished with the open sights.

Summary

The MAR177 is proving to be as interesting as I remembered. I think it can do even better and I hope to see it soon.

111 thoughts on “Crosman MAR 177: Part 4


  1. B.B.,

    Shooting very nicely with the stock peep sights. The groups seem to have a little vertical movement influencing their size. The front sight was blackened after your alteration? So when you scope it, what is the plan? High rings and the Meopta?

    Siraniko



  2. BB
    And when you say you think it can do even better. Does that mean you will be stretching its legs a bit.

    Doing better for me in my opinion would be at a longer distance. I think it will do good farther out.


  3. B.B.

    Strange as this my sound, would this be a candidate for the HS Marksmanship Program?
    At 10 meters is sure is accurate!
    Have a nice weekend all.

    Stay safe, stay sane,

    -Yogi




        • Shootski & Yogi,

          That was what I was thinking. It seems like a very expensive setup for HS teams. At 10 meters a Precision 10 meter air rifle would likely be a better choice, do you not think?


          • RidgeRunner,

            SOME of those Shotguns aren’t cheap either!
            As far as the MAR177 i think that would cause most High School PTAs in most states to have appoplexy!
            After all it is one of those BLACK ASSAULT Guns! = Vietnam, DRAFT, Kent State….
            I think this is a product for AR owners and could be very a very successful seller if the marketing was done well. Especially with 4,500psi air source and choice of small bore calibers along with a regulator with a moderator optional.

            shootski


            • Shootski,

              I do not think it will do well. First the economy is going to have to recover from this mess. Very likely that once “they” start hiring again, the wages will once again be lower. You may rest assured that this will not cost less than previously.

              It seems strange, but the gunfire around here has greatly diminished in volume, most especially the AR type. I guess they have started hoarding their ammunition, what with our glorious governor and his cronies finally having the power to trample upon our Constitutional Rights.

              Ah well, it was inevitable. So many have never been taught what those words mean. Oh, the media flaunts the 1st Amendment, but so many fail to grasp that without the 2nd there is no 1st, or any of the others for that matter.

              They have never been taught how throughout history the people surrendered everything to the government and the results of such became catastrophic. In recent history this gave rise to such as Hitler, Stalin, Tojo, Mao. Who will be next to join this most illustrious list? Putin? Xi? Sanders?

              I shall surrender the soap box to others now.


              • RidgeRunner,

                Recent history? Those names mean nothing to todays students…they don’t get History the way it was once taught. Anything before Global Warming, Smart Phones, and the World Wide Web is like the Time Before Time! We have at least one Supreme Court Justice who believes the Constitution she is sworn to protect is worthless in todays circumstance…her Oath meant nothing?

                shootski


                • Shootski,

                  Of course her oath meant nothing. She is one of those who will say or do anything to achieve power. We do not know what is good for us, but she does and will force us to her will.


  4. BB,

    “I think the time I spent working on the sights distracted me a little and I would like to have another go at this, now that I have the sights where they need to be.”

    No! You are never allowed to shoot this again!

    Duh. It’s yours. Who would nay say you? It is the weekend. 😉


  5. BB,

    Fine shooting!

    On “logging in”,….. I was confronted with a “I am human” check box,… then had to clear, ID,… 2 pages of objects (the 1st time was buses and the 2nd time, motorcycles),… before proceeding to the usual log in. I did it twice. Logged in, read a bit, logged out and then logged back in a 2nd time just to verify what was happening.

    What a pain!!!!!!! 🙁 Is this new and (for others),… is anyone else seeing this?

    Chris



  6. Everyone,

    Off-topic, but certainly an air gunner’s topic.

    I have decided my old safety glasses are getting too scratched up, so I am shopping around. For me that is a tough search as it must be a pair of anti-fog safety glasses that will fit over my prescription eyeglasses, and even those that are designed for that rarely do the job well, in my experience. (I cannot wear contacts.)

    I kept seeing the usual standards abbreviations and decided to look them up. CSA is the Canadian standard(s), and ANSI is the American set of standards. I found a detailed description of the ANSI standards and tests for safety eyewear on the below website. It is for a manufacturer, but they provide a thorough explanation of the testing requirements and what each part of the code (D3, D4, D5, etc.) means.

    Enjoy!

    https://www.hexarmor.com/posts/what-do-lens-markings-and-z87-mean

    Michael


  7. BB, please check your local laws about electric bikes. Most, if not all, do not allow motors or “other powered” vehicles on bike lanes, sidewalks, Rail Trails,paved recreational trails, mountain bike trails, city park trails, ect. A 20 mph electric bike doesn’t mix well the new mom and baby with a small dog while wearing headphones.
    Get a helmet, I know, I hate them too.
    Get some cycling gloves. They are padded and when you fall protect your hands.
    Just want you to be healthy and safe.
    Off soapbox now.
    My girlfriend and I pack up our HW30s, they are light, take golf wiffle balls, shotgun hulls,ect. Some lunch and drink
    , ride into the Ocala National Forest. Great fun shooting and quality times together.
    Steve, retired bicycle mechanic.
    Stay safe and a great weekend to all.


    • Bicycle exercise, May 1940.

      Ocala National Forest – wonderful place; the only Black bear I ever saw in FL was during a trail ride there with my military vehicle club buddies. The bear bounded across a trail about 200 yards from the lead vehicle, too fast for anyone to photograph or film it, That was back in the mid ‘80s.


      • Great photo! Classic stuff there. Long smooth riding bikes.
        Seen a few bears. We find panther tracks sometimes.
        We have a small prairie/lake area that has a endangered fish about 1/2 mile in. So we are quite protective. I’ll hike around with my HW77. Locals think it’s dbl rifle. Ha,ha!
        Moved here from St.Petersburg 3 yrs ago. Never looked back.
        The Villages community is just south. 3, yes 3 airgun 10 meter ranges. Good club there.
        10 rings to you.
        Take care
        Crazy times


  8. B.B,
    I, for one, am glad you decided to fix the irons and shoot this military-style gun as it was meant to be shot.
    Although, I will add that it will be interesting to see how it does at longer range (perhaps 25 yards?), but I think it would be cool if you shot it at longer range with the iron sights, and then at the same range with a scope; you are pretty adept with military receiver sights; I am thinking the delta in group size would not be much.
    Anyway, it was really nice to see this military-styled airgun shoot so well with iron sights; I think a lot of AR15 shooters, should they happen across this blog, will be kicking themselves in the pants that they didn’t buy one of these bad boys when they had the chance, hahaha! =>
    Looking forward to the rest of the testing,
    dave


    • Dave,

      In some places yes. Here, no. Not when you can buy an entire AR for what this cost back then. It was just too expensive. If this was brought back into production now, the price would be over a grand or it would not be worth buying. You can buy two ARs for that.


      • RidgeRunner,

        No cleaning or much maintenance needed!

        TOTAL COST OF OWNERSHIP.
        Cheap ammo in the long run is the reason to go with this MAR177 even if it were to cost $1,000.00; after 2,500 rounds (even if you reload (reloading gear $$$$) you have paid for. Not to speak of the fact that a few more of those HOT rounds and you need to get a new barrel (okay re-chamber, sometimes, if you bought the pricey barrel) and the small “expendables” start adding up too. You can shoot your way to the Poorhouse if you let those semis or automatics rock and roll!

        shootski


        • Shootski,

          I understand what you are saying, but most do not. Some of these guys around here have ten or more ARs and who knows how much ammo squirreled away. In their thinking airguns are for kids.

          You need to remember, there were bunches of ARs out there when this product came out. That was why it came out in the first place. It did not sell enough to maintain production. “Why do I want a toy when I can have the real thing?”


      • RidgeRunner, I guess I am an anachronism; I have no ARs; for the price of one, I would rather have a Winchester 1873, or even an 1892, in .44-40…either would still protect the homestead today just as well as they did back in their own day…just my opinion. =>


    • The Davemyster,

      I have been ever since I stopped being issued all the 5.56 OTAN-NATO ammo (and other ammo) i can use….
      For well over thirty years i never understood the term fuel or ammo shortage.

      Thank you Taxpayers!

      shootski


      • “For well over thirty years i never understood the term fuel or ammo shortage.”
        Shootski, you have got to be one of the luckiest guys I know…more power to you! =>


  9. This comment was sent to me via my Godfather website, but he is a reader of this blog.
    ———————-
    Re: MAR177, Part 4 where you chopped the front post— did I miss something? Why couldn’t you adjust the rear sight up? Was the elevation wheel locked or damaged?
    Tried to reply on the blog, but couldn’t log in. Couldn’t get pest the Captcha gizmo thing. Just to reassure you, I am a human. Thanks for all you do.
    Cheers
    Bruce


  10. Bruce,

    Go back to Part 2 and read the bit about the sights again. It’s in the section titled “Receiver difference”.

    The rear sight on M16s and most AR-15s does not adjust for elevation. You have to adjust the front sight. I said in this report that no person who has carried an M16 like to adjust the sights — especially the front sight. Read the section titled “Sighting inn the MAR”.

    B.B.


    • Bruce replied to me, saying,

      Right, I read that claim in part 2, and you are correct that the M16 and M16A1 are not elevation adjustable. I’ve been shooting this platform for close to fifty years. But the MAR177 is clearly an A2 model that does have an elevation adjustable rear sight, which was why I ask if it is damaged or inoperable in some way.
      Cheers
      Bruce




  11. I purchased this Colt AR 15 about 40 years ago and it is an SP-1 model. My old eyes just have trouble using the iron sights but I just didn’t want to be a redneck with a scope. So I added a red dot sight, which I guess makes me a red-dot-neck. I also had to buy the special Picatinny rail that has a slope shape to fit on the handle. Incidentally, the way it is attached, one can still use the Peep sight. I also added a brass catcher so I didn’t have to hurt my back bending down to pick up the spent brass, which incidentally, I reload.



    • B-I-L
      Here’s a picture of my semi auto Winchester 190. I guess I’m a red dot redneck too. And see the black bag. That’s my case catcher. You know what I made it from. It’s the case to my laser range finder. It works real good. It never drops a case.

      It’s a fun little setup. And I can shoot all the rimfire bullets from the 710 fps rounds up to the 1750 fps rounds. And it holds15 long rifles in the tube under the barrel. And to mention this gun is 48 years old and I’m the original owner. It’s the first rimfire I got for Christmas when I just turned 11. The gun is still in good shape and is accurate and cycles great.



        • Dave
          Thanks.
          I’ll never get rid of it. My dad got it for me when I was 11 years old for Christmas. My oldest daughter already said she wants it when I kick the bucket. And that’s fine with me.



    • BB,

      OK???? I found the site and saw no blog/comment section,… so I am assuming that you answered the inquiry?

      Let me guess,………… you told him to leave it alone? 😉

      Chris


      • Chris,

        No, he wants to do it and you know how it is done.

        He says he is new to blogs and can’t find his way around, so please respond to this message with the links he is to go to for the conversion.

        BTW, his name is Lee Smith.

        Thanks,

        B.B.


        • BB,

          Well,… if Mr. Smith is not so internet/blog savvy,…. then I would suggest keeping it simple.

          Call 470-636-1200 (Crosman) and order part # 169750-000 which is called a “1938 plunger assembly”. While this is an assembly, the spring is the only thing he will need. The spring is not sold separately. This is an assembly for a Red Ryder.

          Cheap,… like less than 10$ as I recall and that is shipped.

          In the meantime,…. Mr. Smith would need to get logged in here so that we can have a conversation.

          While not too hard,…. some mechanical aptitude (will) be required. No special tools. There is one that can be easily made to facilitate spring removal and new spring insertion.

          Hope that helps.

          Chris


      • Chris
        Finally gotten to this. As I wrote yesterday, I am trying to persuade voles and chipmunks from eating and living in/around my wife’s much toiled in garden/bird feeder area. My shooting distance w the 499b is 20’+\- 2’. When I am lucky enough to see a vole and get a hit, that’s all it takes to dispatch one. They are mighty sporty targets though! I have had a little trouble with chipmunks and 1 shot and have been thinking that I needed more speed to kill rather than maim. I also understand shot placement and try my best to obtain a head shot. I am also re-pattering my rifle at this distance. Tests to be done this afternoon. Question: what are your trepidations about Replacing the spring ? I readily admit I am no gunsmith. Do it take special tools/talent to remove the existing spring and replace it w the new one? Or, in replacing it, does it increase BB speed but have other negative unintended consequences? I have swabbed my barrel and it was more clean than dirty as expected.
        I also asked Tom about opportunities to improve the accuracy of my less than 5 yr old RR. Your thoughts on this matter too are appreciated. Regards. Lee


        • Lee,

          Forgive me if I am slow to answer today as I am doing a bit of cooking. Glad you found your way here. If we run out of room, just start a new post. I will see it. You can always catch me on the current day blog (on another day),…. I will see that too.

          Do you have the manual? There is an exploded view in mine on pg. 13.

          As for power increase, you will go from 207 to 412 fps. Just tearing mine down and lubing things better got me 240. So yes,… at 20′ I think you will fine on the chippies.

          Trigger effort will stay very much the same,… 2 – 2 1/2 #’s. Cocking effort will go from about 5# to about 10# measured. Point of impact went up about 3″ at 41′.

          I will post this for now and be watching.

          Chris


        • Lee,

          On the Red Ryder,… forget it. It has more power than a 499 but horrible on accuracy.

          On mechanical aptitude,…. Have you changed spark plugs in a car? Done brakes? Can you tear down a small home appliance and put it back together? Or,…. something like that.

          On tools, nothing special. A small socket set and some screw drivers. Maybe some fine picks.

          Here is a picture of a tool that would be good to make:

          http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/images/1/1b/DAISY_SPRING_COMPRESOR.jpg

          A piece of wood and a couple of coat hanger pieces. This is what aids on spring insertion and removal. More handy on putting the new one in. (We can talk more on that later).

          Looking back at my notes, I see that I was tuning this back in Dec. ’15. I have no pics and any drawings I have are hand drawn. So,… I may not recall every little detail,…. but I think we can do just fine.

          That is about it for now. I don’t want to overwhelm you with details.

          Chris



  12. B.B. and Readership,

    A moment of silence for our Northern neighbors, please!
    Because a criminal went on a Crime Spree; Canadians who were law-abiding will now have their Mini 14s and ASSAULT STYLE weapons banned! Honestly, We Don’t Want to Take Your Guns! You will, however, need to turn them in!

    Canadians WILL BE SAFER! This time?

    shootski



    • RidgeRunner,

      Great to hear that Vana2 is just busy!

      Was out on the Potomac River today for the flyby with Blue Angels and Thunderbirds on a fantastic Spring day for a tribute to the Front Line Medical types.
      I won’t comment on which group flys better formation; i might be accused of being biased!

      shootski


      • Shootski
        Don’t comment on which group flew better.

        It was nice seeing those F16 Thunderbirds for a change. Always did like those little but mighty jets.

        Not that I don’t like the F18 Blue Angels.

        I thought it was cool to see them fly together. Good stuff.


        • Gunfun1,

          I was honored to be able to see both teams fly together in person. That is a very uncommon thing for them to do! I look forward to the 75th Anniversary of the WW II Victory Formations. Since i started flying in Big Radial Engine aircraft the gutteral stutter of a prop starting has always tugged my heart strings! 2,000+ BHP/56 inches of manifold pressure is fun to crank to life! And the Blower Shifts from low to high blower are always a treat!

          shootski


          • Shootski
            Been around a lot of aircraft in my 40+ years of aviation maintenance. Even got to watch an SR-71 Blackbird taxi in front of me. But the hands down most impressive was a C-121 Super Constellation.
            A great proud standing curvy lady of the sky that sounds like a mechanical orchestra with singing brakes rolling along the taxiway.
            Never got run-up qualified on radials but stood fire bottle watch enough to know what you mean. It is an overwhelming experience to bring a Big Radial to life. Smoke, fire, noise, smell, spinning blades and wind.
            Bob M


            • Bob M,

              Our Squadron was getting rid of our last Willy Victors when i checked in to fly EA3B and EP3E aircraft. I initially fell in love with the Super Star on a charter flight to europe when i was a teen.
              When the Willy Victor crews found out i had thousands of radial engine time i got to take part in a few of the last EC121 flights! The WV start was easier than the R1820 start! I think it had to do with all that Mass in motion after 12 blades. The blower shift was given over to the FE but i could tell the Compound Shift was not among their favorite evolutions. Good times and fond memories! Glad i was part of the Golden Age of aviation…. I know you understand.

              shootski


              • Shootski
                Ditto that last statement. The rules and regulations were more like suggestions. I checked into VAP-62 (JAX ) in 1969 an A3 photo squadron that had already received its decommissioning orders and spent most of my time trying to recover all the original GSE it was issued for turn in. Only worked the Line for a bit then they slid me into VA-87 at Cecil Field, A7’s. A3’s had the most obnoxious exhaust stink. A6’s would rattle your teeth and shake your bones on a cat launch. Hell of an exciting life.
                Bob M


          • Shootski
            Always enjoy going to the air shows. Our RC plane club got to fly a couple years at the Scott Air Force base air shows back in the early 90’s. I flew a 1/4 scale Extra 300s with smoke. It was fun stuff.

            And love when those big radial warbirds do a fly by. They did a bombing reenactment that had some P51’s and such that was pretty good too.

            And love when the Harriers fly. Heck I can go on and on about planes. But yep I thought that was pretty cool when I seen the Thunderbirds and Blue Angel’s together the other day on tv. Wish I could of been there. But still was good to see.


            • Gunfun 1,

              You named another of my favorites the P51 but a well flown Lightning is the straight engine pilot dream unless you were lucky enough to fly Moonbat…only one ever flown but just looking at it tells me it would be a stick and throttle blast.

              shootski



  13. Log in this morning was different than the “I am a human” test that has been the norm as of late. Today, a screen flashed up and said that it was checking something or other,… then flashed away to the normal log in screen. Maybe 10-15 seconds. Odd,…. but better than picking cars (or something else) from very poor, small, obscure pictures.

    Hey,.. it is progress. I’ll happily take it! 🙂

    Chris


    • Chris
      Last night I had the same brief interruption but this afternoon I went through the bus trick.
      They are obviously trying to keep virus’s out of the PA blog and perhaps vise versa.. Just be glad we don’t have to put on a face mask!
      Only difference I could find is my Malwarebytes had completed a scan before I tried to log in last night (Runs one every time I turn my laptop on) and today it did not complete it yet.
      Bob M


      • Bob,

        I do not know. I use Malwarebyte’s as well. I have not used it for several days. I will try and run it ((now)) and see what happens. I use the free version.

        Chris


      • Bob,

        5:44 to run and 295,000 items searched. I did have to do the “I am human” bit on my way back in here. Umbrellas this time. Go figure? 🙁

        Maybe wrong, maybe not,…. but I think there is too much internet activity for some systems to handle. I live very rural and my speed is WAY better in the early AM.

        Anyways,…. that is my report back to “headquarters”,………….. 😉

        Chris




      • Chris USA,

        Emmentaler please with a nice white! I have never thought of Swiss cheese as sharp? Now Blue Cheese is another story! How does a Bacon Bluecheese burger with Blue Fries (Bluecheese sauce over those double crisped fries!) sound?

        shootski

        shootski


        • Shootski,

          I am a cheese junkie! On one end of Swiss,… you have Baby Swiss. Then on the other end,… you have Big Eye Swiss (big holes) which is much sharper. Some people can not eat the latter due to mouth skin reactions. Same for the Cheddar varieties. Me?,… I can eat it all. I am also a hot food/sauce junkie and love the hot cheeses. I know,………. I need “help”,………… 🙁

          😉 Chris


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