My new/old Webley Senior slant grip pellet pistol.
This report covers:
- The test
- Missed the target trap box
- Adjusting the sights
- Back to the first “group”
- 10 Meters with Wasps
- What to do?
- What now?
- BB shoots pistol
- Eley Wasps
- RWS Hobby
- H&N Field and Target Trophy
- BB’s plan
- Summary
Today’s report will be the first test of the accuracy of the new/old Webley Senior. This will be a very strange test and it may be of some benefit to a few of you. For the rest it will be a time to laugh at old BB. Grab your coffee or tea and let’s go.
The test
The test was SUPPOSED to be a test for accuracy off a sandbag rest at 10 meters, so that is how it began. I also intended shooting 5-shot groups, but as you will see that didn’t always work as planned.
I’m shooting with the open sights that come on the pistol and therein lies a huge part of today’s report. I didn’t know where it was last sighted in so I fired a pellet at the target that was taped to the rubber mulch pellet trap box. I shot from 10 meters with my two hands resting on the sandbag and holding the pistol. And I began with the Eley Wasp.
Missed the target trap box
Shot one missed the 12-inch by 12-inch target trap box altogether. Oh, my! From just 10 meters it’s hard for BB to miss a foot-square target. So I went down to 12 feet from the target and used a two-handed hold with a door jamb for support. That shot hit the box several inches below the target paper. Time to adjust the sights.
Adjusting the sights
Webley pistols all use the same method to adjust the sights. The rear sight is a flat plate (more on that in a moment) that slides up and down when a single screw is loosened. There is no scale for this, so it’s an eyeball thing. HOWEVER — that “flat” plate is on top of a second dovetailed plate that slides left and right, and it is also held by that single screw. It sounds and even looks good, but it’s really difficult to adjust with any precision or hope of repeatability. Crosman has used the same rear sight on some of their pistols and I have had the same problems adjusting those.
The Webley rear sight adjusts up and down and left and right by loosening a single screw.
Now, because there is just a single screw, that “flat” plate is also free to rotate left and right, and it does. So besides eyeballing where the rear notch ends up you also have to level the top of the sight. And here comes the worst part.
That “flat” plate isn’t completely flat! So, as you tighten the one screw, that flat/curved plate rotates as it wants to and moves the rear notch wherever it wants. That makes adjusting the rear sight a chancy thing.
Back to the first “group”
I adjusted the rear sight up and the next shot that I fired from 12 feet went below the bull but did land on the target paper. It’s roughly okay left and right, so I adjusted the rear sight as high as it would go and fired again. The pellet went 2.5-inches to the right and also up by about an inch. I felt it was now okay to back up to 10 meters and shoot again.
10 Meters with Wasps
This time I put five Eley Wasps into a 1.355-inch group at 10 meters. Look long and hard because this is my last 10-meter group for today.
There you go! The five holes by the dime are the group I shot at 10 meters. The two lower holes are me sighting in and adjusting the sights.
What to do?
I tried adjusting the sights again. Let me show you what I got.
This is me playing with the rear sight and shooting from 10 meters. Not so good, huh? No group here, just some stuff.
What now?
Do I abandon this pistol and get something else to test? I had already spent a lot of time today because I also had to change rubber mulch boxes. No, I don’t want to give up.
BB shoots pistols
BB Pelletier knows how to shoot a handgun. That much is certain. What does he do when one fights him like this Senior? Ahhh! He remembers teaching his former father-in-law how to shoot a 10-meter target pistol. He moves up to 12 feet and uses a two-hand hold with a door jamb brace. Yes — 12 FEET! What you are about to see was all shot from 12 feet.
Eley Wasps
Five Eley Wasps landed in a group that measures 0.506-inches between centers. Great group, but way, way too close. Hold your horses — BB has a plan.
From 12 feet the Senior put five Wasps into 0.506-inches.
RWS Hobby
There will be no more sight adjustments today. The next pellet I tried in the Senior was the RWS Hobby. They were also shot from 12 feet, as described above. Five Hobbys went into 0.862-inches from 12 feet. Maybe the Hobby isn’t the best pellet for the Senior. They did hit closer to the center line though.
From 12 feet the Senior put five RWS Hobbys into 0.862-inches.
H&N Field and Target Trophy
The last pellet I tested at 12 feet was the H&N Field and Target Trophy that has a 5.53 mm head. The Senior put five of them into a 0.519-inch group. Now we’re cooking!
The Senior put five H&N FTT pellets into a 0.519-inch group at 12 feet. This group is also centered pretty well.
BB’s plan
Now that I know the Senior is reasonable accurate, I plan to back up in stages and shoot the two best pellets from today’s test, plus I’ll pick one more. I have other plans yet to come, like flaring the skirts of the most accurate pellet to see whether that makes a difference. But first I have to get this pistol grouping at more than 12 feet.
I would also like to put them into the bullseye, so there is work to do with the sights. I won’t modify the pistol in any way, but I plan to find out a lot more about it as we go.
Summary
As I said in the beginning, today’s test was one of the strangest ones I have ever done. If some of you have airguns that are giving you accuracy problems you might like to try this approach, or some variant of it. If you do please tell us what you did and how it worked for you.
B.B.
Boy-o-boy, a pistol that is accurate at 4 yards.
That is enough to give pistols a bad name.
-Y
B.B.,
Ach Du Lieber! To starten you must get rid of the Silver Dime!
You need a One Mark coin to embarrass this British pistol into shooting straight!
Actually how much slop is there in the front hinge? It wouldn’t take very much with that short of a barrel.
RidgeRunner says they aren’t the “most” accurate pistols but….
I’ll be watching and hopefully you will perform a minor miracle!
shootski
shootski,
Yeah, I’ll be watching too! 😉
BB
Shootski,
I hope he does also. I know of some Webleys that would really like to be “accurized”.
Siraniko’s idea of using the feral soda can is a good one.
BB,
For those rare occasions maybe you ought to have a feral soda can at hand for size comparison.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
A genuine “minute-of-a-soda-can” accuracy guage 😉
H
DIY MOSC (minute of soda can) gauge: cut a rectangular piece of clear plastic, trace the outline of a soda can, label it “0.1 soda can @ 4 yards.” Then sell it for free plus $5.99 shipping. Just joking, P.A. I make lots of typos, too.
Stephan Archer of HAM has a minute of soda can target he uses on occasion.
I know. But I was trying to poke some good-natured fun at P.A.’s MOA contest with the typo on the little plastic card. They have circles for .25 inches, .5, .75, and then the biggest circle is .1.
Well, at least we know why this pistol was for sale….
Here’s to seeing more of this series. I hope we get to see how B.B. encourages this gun to redeem itself. It will be a quite educational.
The rear sights on my Crosman Mark I and II pistols are also difficult to adjust. Rather than one screw, though, there are four! Perhaps B.B. or 45Bravo have some tips on adjusting those as well?
RG,
This thing was likely for sale because the owner was one of those “collectors” who buy and sell airguns for profit. I myself had an UK Tempest that I foolishly sold many years ago because it was not near as accurate as my Izzy. I wish I had it back now.
I have a Webley Service Mk II that was given to me for Christmas by Mrs. RR. It is from the early 30’s. I also have a straight grip Webley Senior for the early 30’s also. If you search this ‘site, you will see both of these actual airguns. I now have a Webley Junior from the late 40’s – early 50’s that I am rebuilding.
If you are expecting sub-MOA groups, you had better spend a lot more money on Olympic style airguns. If you want an airgun that will last longer than you and even if it breaks, can be rebuilt, get one of these old gals. No, they are not the best shooters around. Almost none of these old gals are. But how many of these new super accurate things will be around 100 years from now? Do you think they will be rebuildable?
There is a Webley air pistol I am looking at right now. It is in horrible shape. It is being sold as a parts gun. I know I can restore it to shooting condition. It may not be pretty, but it will shoot, probably as good as when it was new. Just sayin’.
RR,
That horrible Webley pistol you are looking at sounds like your first BSA rifle I talked you into buying so many years ago. Do it and then tell us what you did! 🙂
BB
I hear you.
For, me, B.B. suggested I try a Crosman Mark I to get me and my daughter into pistol shooting, and I have to say, I have resealed 6 so far. Most of them were purchased for less than $100 (some way less). Why do I need 6 when I only can shoot one at any time? Well, one will be given as a gift soon to a relative who recently got interested in shooting for self defense. I have it adjusted to shoot cheap HN Excite Plinking pellets into a dime at 10 yards from a rest.
So I know exactly where you are coming from.
RR
You expressed, as usually, the exact description of the “collectors”. What a difference from my point of view of the term, regarding myself that is; I would like to collect so many airguns just because I like them, for whatever reason. Accuracy, power, scarcity, looks, built, you choose. Up to this point I seem to loose some money for what I want at the time… That’s ok since I feel like earning some more, happy, life through the process. Lost some happiness when I didn’t buy the last, Turkish, Tempest models two years ago.
Bill,
I myself am an “eclectic collector”. I collect for my enjoyment. I do my best to shoot every one of these gals around here when I can. I “play” with them all. You sorta kinda sound that way also.
RR
You most certainly hit the bullseye on my character regarding airguns. Wish you do the same, if you participate, in PA contest.
I hope that you will not mind me using the term eclectic collectors for myself from now on.
Bill, I don’t think of myself as a collector, I will likely keep as many of the Mark I and II pistols as I or my family will actually shoot and the rest, I will likely give away as presents to people I meet who might be interested in getting into shooting airguns. Right now I am having fun reseLing them and figuring out the most accurate pellet for each. However I have found myself with a growing collection of Diana breakbarrel air rifles that are branded “Winchester.” I really don’t know why. I was looking for something for one of the kids to replace the Beeman AR2079 that I got her for Christmas (it’s very heavy for her) and a Winchester 435 (Diana 35) caught my eye, but it was also too big for her liking. So I was looking for a Diana 25 and I found a Winchester 423 and a 425 being sold together. SO now I have 3 Winchester (Diana) air rifles. I find myself now looking for more even though I don’t need them. I guess that makes me a collector. I need more storage space!
B.B.
You need to let it pinch your hand before it will group well…..
-Y
Yogi,
I got pinched by my Dragonfly in the last test, so no thank you!
BB
Yogi,
I still have yet to figure out how you pinched your hand with one of these. The only thing I can figure is you were somehow holding the very front of the pistol and cocking it at the same time.
This evening I come to you seeking your experience in identifying airguns. I recently purchased a used pumper rifle with a beautiful hardwood stock. Judging from its diminutive size, this is a youth gun. It is a .22 cal pellet rifle. My question is: who makes it? I am unable to find any manufacturer ID other than the model number: 392 PA and serial number: 705700292. Are there any seers out there who can tell me about this pumper rifle? I purchased it for $75.00 dollars thinking my grandson might enjoy it, but ended up buying a Seneca Dragonfly MK2 for him instead . . . good purchase there, he loves shooting it. Thanks to you, BB for such good advice. Now, can any of you help in the ID of this rifle? I’d love to know it’s age if anyone can identify it by the serial number. I hope that I didn’t buy a $20 Chinese junker, but who knows. The fun is in the experience. Thanks, Orv.
Doc,
That sounds like a variation of a Benjamin 392. Perhaps with a modified stock?
BB
This Parts Diagram available at Crosman’s website indicates a “392PA”:
https://support.crosman.com/hc/en-us/articles/203361144-392-Owner-s-Manual-EVP-1995-1997-
I wish to thank both you and BB for your responses. It’s good to know what gun I have. I did search long and hard in my Blue Book of Airguns ( 13th edition) for a Benjamin/Sheridan/Crosman 392PA 22 cal rifle, all for naught, as I couldn’t find any reference to the 392 PA.. I have now been able to reference this pellet rifle on Amazon. My gun does look very much like other Benjamin 392s, just without the PA. As I referred to in my last post, my rifle does seem smaller than most pumpers. Once I get a new seal in it, mine should be ready to shoot. Yea for shooting! I hope to spend much of tomorrow on the range playing with my other toys. Thanks again. Orv.
You are most welcome.
Hi Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier), having looked at the parts diagram, I wonder about the rear sight adjustment…
It seems, the notched plate’s up and down movement is guided by the horizontal sliding plate beneath, which in turn sits in it’s recess. What I mean is, with the screw only slightly loosened, the rear sight should only move left to right and up and down, without rotating.
I wonder if the plates on your gun can be made to only move that way too? Also, I would use a plain washer and thread lock instead of the original grip washer. 🙂
Oops, I forgot to attach the parts diagram. Here it is…
Hi3,
Nice drawing. Unfortunately it doesn’t look like the sight on my pistol. I guess in the next report I will disassemble the rear sight and show the parts. I have to do it anyway — why not get a blog out of it?
BB
Your photo of the rear sight shows a base plate that does not fit in the dovetail slots and lacks the tabs to keep the sight plate vertical. Perhaps the base plate is not original?
RR,
Perhaps. What does the rear sight on your straight grip look like?
BB
BB,
My straight grip? 😉 It looks like the one in the diagram. It does not fit into the dovetail slots, though it fills the “gap”.
The Junior only has the notch plate.
B.B., comparing your photo and hihihi’s drawing, it looks like the second layer is either missing the vertical guides or is flipped over so the guides are against the body of the gun. Interested to see when your take it apart.
Roamin,
Me too!
BB
Chambers may have the part in question.
https://www.gunspares.co.uk/products/24544/Senior-Pistol-1935-64/
Cheers!
hihihi, did you ever see my collage of airguns and my reply to you?
(posted here: /blog/2022/08/an-unexpected-expedition/?swcfpc=1 )
If not, just let me know, and I will repost it to you; thank you.
Ah thedavemyster, thanks! And oh dear, I wasn’t aware of your reply, sorry.
Interesting ‘toys’ and, thanks to the labels, I knew what I was looking at.
What a great collage, thanks for the link and thanks for sharing! 🙂
You are most welcome. 🙂
BB,
You might try the 1911 hold on this pistol.
Everybody needs to keep in mind that Webleys are not 10-meter competition air pistols and were never meant to be. They are just fun to shoot.
That may be true, but if you can’t even hit a 12″ x 12″ box, let alone a pop can at a reasonable distance, how much fun will it be?
But I am hoping for the best with this series!
RG,
It is great for killing feral soda cans. You need to remember that I was comparing these to my Izzy. Like I said, they are not 10-meter competition air pistols. He missed because hit sights were way off.
To supplement my previous response, this is the problem I am having with my young son. Even though he passed B.B.,s “triangulation” training, I think his eyes are cross dominant and are throwing off his aim so badly, that he can’t hit anything with the real pellet guns. In frustration, he declared that shooting was boring. I have taped over the left lens of his shooting glasses with Scotch Magic Tape in preparation for the next opportunity for luring him into shooting.
RG
You might consider setting up a “mini sniping” arrangement for him. Kids love knocking tings down or breaking things,, so maybe some of those little green soldiers or some Neco Wafers,, if they still make those. Cans might be a bit large but they make noise when they are hit and so might hold his attention.
Sometimes paper targets aren’t for everyone,, especially kids.
Ed
Good suggestions. In the past, I solicited suggestions from the readership for reactive targets. I have cowbells in 4 sizes. I have a case of necco wafers, I have lollipops ( the flat, disc-shaped kind). I also have two cases of clay pigeons. One time I set up a shooting gallery with peeps on toothpicks.
My daughters are dead-eyes. But my son couldn’t even hit the biggest cowbell from 5 meters, which led me to conclude he has either crossdominant eyes or both eyes are dominant and they are competing.
So being a young and impatient kid, he gave up. But I think he will try again if he sees his sister. I figure I can eliminate the left eye confusing things by covering the entire lens with scotch magic tape, which is translucent. Otherwise, we may have to have him try left-handed.
Roamin,
Lots of easy ways to miss a target – yanking the trigger and no cheek weld/only aligning the front sight – are common ones with new shooters. That his sisters are shooting well could also be putting a lot of pressure on him making things more difficult.
Suggestions if I may….
– Remove all distractions (just you and your son, no sisters allowed 😉 ) and choose a good (quiet) time that he is not doing or planning to do anything else. Keep it casual.
– Eliminate the target (and the need to hit it), use a large piece of cardboard with a 1/4″ dot to point at.
– Have your son shoot at very close range (like 5 feet or so) and watch his form and consistently. Switch to a fresh cardboard and dot if he starts paying too much attention to where the pellets hit. Take a video to review later if you can do it without disturbing/distracting him.
What I’m trying to do here is setup a no pressure, casual shooting session to see if there is something he is doing that is throwing his shots off. Peer pressure (from his sisters doing well) could be causing “target panic” where he’s tense, jerking the trigger and (maybe) looking up from the sights before breaking the shot. Some people don’t shoot well in a competitive environment until the get their confidence up.
Hopefully you can find an obvious problem and take steps to fix that.
When teaching shooting (with a bow or a gun) I start with form and consistently; work with at a large target at close range and gradually increase the range/reduce the target size as the skill level allows. It’s a mind-game, got to keep everything positive.
Hope this helps.
Hank
BB-
Regarding adjusting the rear sight, here are some tips-
Without any sort of ‘scale’ to judge how far you are moving the sight pieces you will need to make your own. I use a magic marker to paint the metal surface adjacent to the parts to be moved. There are also commercial layout dyes available, but the magic marker usually works well enough. Using a sharp scribe, scratch lightly around the sight perimeter. Don’t go so deeply that you mark the gun’s finish.. You will now have an outline mark of where the sight ‘s original position. The second tip is to NOT completely loosen the adjusting screw so the parts can be moved by hand. The gun needs to be secured in a padded vise leaving both of your hands free. Use a brass drift and small hammer to tap the sight in the needed direction. Your scribed marks will allow you to see how far the sight has moved. Tighten screw, shoot, repeat. Good luck.
Thanks for the tips. I will try to use a variation of that on my Mark I and II pistols. Perhaps I can draw a very fine pencil mark across at the level of the bottom of the rear sight notch and another down the center and make another reference mark on the adjacent parts of the pistol. I am working on one now trying to find the best pellet and hammer spring tension combination. The next step will be adjusting the sights to move the group to the center of the bull. Then I can think about trigger adjustments. Amazingly, the low power setting lobs Meisterkugelns (pistol 7.0 gr.) pellets in slowly, but very consistently, and gives me over 90 shots per CO2 cartridge.
Paco,
You described how I adjust the sights, except for the reference marks. But the not-flat notch plate negates loosening the screw just a little.
BB
BB-
As a tread head you should already know my response.
Get a bigger hammer!
Paco
That was, among Ironworkers, the second line to the old saying about “If at first you don’t succeed”.
Ed
edlee,
Not ever an Ironworker; was an apprentice Steeplejack for the year I waited for my Pensacola Flight School class to start. The second line for them was get a sharper cold chisel; the hammer was already 5 pounds! Glad I survived that year…flight school danger was nothing compared to the Steeplejack experience.
shootski
B.B. — “the not-flat notch plate”
What happens if you remove the notch plate and put it in a big metal vise and tighten firmly? Move it to a few different positions on the vise and it ought to flatten out. Or is the metal too springy for that to work?
Cheers,
Guy
B.B.,
The Tempest with its two-screw arrangement is hard enough to get sighted in properly (it’s been years since I adjusted the sights; and I only did that as I had to switch to a new pellet as the old ones for which it was sighted in were discontinued; once I get the sights right, which is not easy, I leave them alone! =>). I could see this single-screw arrangement as something that would give me fits…but I’d gladly put up with it, as this Webley Senior you have is one beautiful pistol. 🙂
Looking forward to the rest of this series,
dave
thedavemyster,
That looks like the Lexus replacement for B.B.’s YUGO sight!
shootski
😉
Dave,
The Tempest I had only had a single screw sight. I am jealous. Don’t forget about RRHFWA. 😉
LOL! I lucked out; my 1980 Tempest was set up the same way, but this one, the one my Dad had me get for him a year later, was always the more accurate of the two; thank God after I sold mine, he gifted me his. 🙂
B.B. and esteemed Readership,
OFF current topic…sort of!
Just read the HAM article about shooting bullets (SLUGS) in airguns. I enjoyed the accurate reporting about shooting bullets (SLUGS) out of airguns UNTIL the picture with the very RED X and the author cocking a SIG ASP20 BreakBarrel of some caliber. Although a true statement of no .177 bullets (SLUGS) in the Pyramydair Ammo Almanac they do carry a surprising number of .177 bullet (SLUG) choices on-line.
Back to shooting bullets(SLUGS) in BreakBarrel airguns. Yes, most will probably not shoot them as well as a POWERFUL PCP but to not write that some of the most powerful BreakBarrel Air Rifles might just be able to do well with them is a disservice to Magnum BreakBarrel owners who hunt. Even with the 14+ grain JSB Knock Outs (a relative novice, ME, to BreakBarrel shooting) could get 2 MOA groups and with the 10.03 grain JSB Knock Outs getting 1 MOA or better much of the time (granted 5 Shot groups) at 25 & 50 yards. I have a great deal more to learn about shooting bullets (SLUGS) with BreakBarrel air rifles but I can’t abide by we never can shoot this, that, or the other ammo because that is how it has always been before!
We can’t allow narrow perspectives to hamper the growth of our sport because of preexisting conceptions that may be wrong as the manufacturers of ammo and airguns learn and improve a product.
END OF RANT!
maybe just maybe the answer to the Webley Senior’s accuracy improvement is a bullet (SLUG) since the ASP was a firearm manufacturers product as is the Senior.
BACK TO RANT!
Many have asked why SIG stopped making the ASP Air Rifles…one individual in particular made it almost a Crusade to dub them as “Firearm Shooter’s Airguns” SO WHAT…why the labeling of an accurate, perhaps too EASY to shoot airgun! Or like many of my fellow early adopter Dark Side colleague’s SECRET Handshake attitudes hampered the growth of PCP airguns for DECADES.
Firearm Shooter friendly sounds like a silly reason to not embrace an airgun to me!
AH! I feel much better already.
shootski
I’m with you, shootski. What better training for shooting firearms than a gun that mimics your firearm.
Shootski,
ROTFWL! I doubt the Senior will do well with a bullet as it was designed primarily for the UK market, under 6 FPE. Having said that, if you could find a bullet as light or lighter than the pellets used, it just might surprise us.
The reasoning behind everyone saying break barrel airguns and lead bullets will not mix is back pressure. What is/was encountered is too light a pellet would have the piston slamming into the front of the compression chamber with too low a pressure and too heavy a pellet would cause the piston to bounce back more than it should. The idea is to find the proper mass for the power plant. This does not account for the coefficient of friction.
Now as to the gas springs as are found in your ASPs. I may be mistaken, but I believe they are less likely to “bounce back” than metal springs. Most of these actually need more mass in the projectile to operate properly. I have experimented with gas springs in metal spring air rifles years ago and decided I did not like them. There were no lead bullets for airguns back then. This was back in the infancy of gas springs in airguns.
Will lead bullets work in magnum break barrels? Light ones should. Keep in mind that lead bullets in any airguns except for big bores is still in its infancy. Even the old big bores shot round ball. Also keep in mind that break barrels as powerful as your ASPs and still easy enough to cock by us mere mortals are a pretty new thing also. Up until very recently, a “powerful” break barrel would only put out around 16 FPE.
You, as a traditional “Darksider” venturing into the world of sproingers, will question many of the traditional views established by us old sproinger dudes. Some of those views will not change as you will discover. The laws of Physics are fairly well established. Some you will find no longer hold water as things have changed over the years, things you are not aware of and things we old timer sproinger dudes have not paid much attention to.
The best thing you can do is shoot those sproingers and see where they take you. Make your own path. I myself am curious where you may go.
RR and Shootski
In my opinion you two are writing new chapters for the potential of lead bullets in springers. Shootski first got my antennae up by using them in one of his ASP20 rifles. Sometimes being one of the try anything once nuts, I bought a tin of JSB Knockouts from PA. As reported earlier I tried them in my big store Ruger Impact that has resisted all attempts to group 10 shots inside an inch at 25 yards. There is lots to like about this rifle otherwise. Well it was more accurate with the Knockouts but still not sub 1 inch. There was nothing alarming with the shot cycle. Have also tried them in a gas springer, my Benjamin Titan. No problem but accuracy not affected.
I haven’t tried Knockouts in my ASP20 yet. Thanks to you both for your comments. I’m hoping others will tip toe into this experiment.
Deck
RidgeRunner,
I doubt it too! But then my RANT would have been Totally off topic without even a passing reference to the Webley Senior.
I have lots of different pellets and bullets (SLUGS) to try and then there is the ultimate step of going in the field to see if it hunts well.
I wish Ed and the rest of the SIG AIR team could have had the chance for a ASP20 Mk2-n series.
With the gas struts in automobiles, trucks and motorcycles there are ways to change the performance well beyond just changing the rams initial charge of gas. They have incorporated liquids and metering restrictions that do amazing things and are user resettable, read that as tunable. We need to get manufacturers to be willing to take risks and not set them up for failure with attacks and disinformation campaigns. Like I said about my fellow early DarkSiders it kills or at minimum slows breakthroughs.
I’m having FUN and will keep on until it isn’t anymore…I will probably hit my Expiration Date before I stop having FUN.
shootski
More than likely.
Maybe FM should be scouting for an ASP20 at the Newton show – with no expectations. He who expects little shall seldom be disappointed.
FawltyManual,
Certainly NOT going to tell you to avoid getting a SIG ASP20 at the show IF it is a good price. I’m not trying to sell ASP20 in my posts or that everyone should try bullets (SLUGS) in every airgun. I just want a more open minded attitude by all of us. I want to encourage the willingness for trying things that make sense, at least a little, and not just close ourselves off from change just because of what others claim to be facts. I did similar Off-the-Wall things with tactics, systems, & methods throughout my Military Service and it paid off more often than
found dead ends.
I read this blog of B.B.’s (with the Readership’s comments and guest blogs) and the HAM blog (not a FORUM) because they are typically much more accepting and open to change compared to the rest of the airgun Internet presence.
shootski
As to the ASP20, agree shootski if…and the caliber is two-two.
Too bad no one made a nice, reasonably accurate break barrel pistol back then …you know, something with a nice click rear sight adjustable for windage and elevation. Oh , wait!! They did!! The Diana 5G!
Motorman
St. Louis, MO
Motorman,
I have a Winchester version of the 5G at the Texas show.
BB
I already have three 5G’s and a 6. Sadly, going to visit in-laws in OH that weekend..
RG, RR and SHOOTSKI
I believe my post addresses the three of you.
RG: The shortened 350 , now with a Titan spring, is an airgun that”mimics” a firearm; 30 joules with relevant recoil and general behaviour…
RR and SHOOTSKI: In the am beast (350) I use 13.4 JSBs with success but for the elegant mannered ASP I would also try the Green Barracudas and FTTs. Wide, hard skirts might be successful.
Bill,
Thanks for the tips.
I have been eyeballing the Pyramyd AMMO Almanac to decide about future pellet, bullet (SLUG) buys. I hope it becomes an annual publication!
shootski
B.B.,
A long time ago you wrote:
/blog/2009/08/sometimes-close-enough-is-enough-a-tale-of-pellets/?swcfpc=1
With the PA Almanac on the way, in Snail Mail boxes, or in our hands it might be time for a blog about the changes in the World of airgun AMMO.
shootski
B.B. and Readership,
If you have a little time this is an interesting outfit and the links to other reading are worthwhile too: https://www.shootingsoftware.com/index.htm
Enjoy,
shootski
PS: this one is a long read I find it hilarious: https://www.shootingsoftware.com/nohelp.htm
“Garage Gun”
I know many of you have jumped on the bandwagon and bought a Crosman 362, and I did likewise..
Since I already had the Dragonfly Mark2 as a scoped rifle for longer range, I got the Crosman 362 to see if she could be a stand-in for my old Sheridan. In that role, she works perfectly; I can use her with 6 pumps (as I’ve used my Sheridan for the past 40+ years; 11.6 fpe is plenty for pesting or close range hunting); just ask our friends across the pond. =>), and she’s far easier to put 6 pumps in than my old Sheridan. Hence, I can keep my Sheridan for nostalgic reasons, and shoot her when I like; but the Crosman 362 has been getting quite a workout lately.
With the thinned-down front sight, I can see the end of the blade well enough to hit the end of a .410 hull at 15 yards. That’s sufficient accuracy for pesting or close-range hunting, and especially for plinking, which is how I use this rifle 99 percent of the time. I like her so much that she has become my “Garage Gun,” hanging underneath one of the Christmas decorations. So, this is my go-to rifle if I only have a few minutes for a quick plinking session, and I don’t feel like going into the house to dig out some other airgun. I’m in and out of the garage dozens of times a day, so this rifle is always close and convenient. But I do lock the garage at night; plus, the 3 acres around our house are inside the electric fence that’s patrolled by Reno, our 70-pound American Bulldog; hence, it’s not likely that the one airgun not in the house is likely to be stolen.
So, I kind of like having a Garage Gun, and I think Crosman has done a good job on this one in building a good economical all-around air rifle. 🙂
Wishing a blessed Sunday to all,
dave
So this is another Webley that confounds us when it comes to accuracy, The Mark XI has not been resolved yet, has it? Must not be a high priority with these airguns when they design them or it is simply overlooked assuming everything should work out well.
Once again supporting my desire for manufacturers to help us find the best pellet(s) to use in their airgun. Even if it’s just using a pellet gage to help us.
Off hand I’m suspecting movement in the barrels. How about clamping the barrel and shooting it upside down letting the rest of the pistol move around instead. Just trying to get a good group.
B.B. and Readership,
Could the problem be that beautiful KNURLING!
Instead of a “pinched/choked” shooting end (muzzle) of the barrel Webley always squashes the first third or so of the barrel. Granted with what is always a first rate application of Knurling to provide good finger tip purchase on the barrel for cocking.
Do the pellets get swaged by the bore constriction the Knurling must cause and then rattle down the rest of the bore?
shootski
RidgeRunner owns an early example of this Webley that was made without the knurling on the barrel (pictured in Part One).
Maybe the knurling is rolled into the metal without distorting the inner?
Shootski,
Makes sense to me and easy to checkout, just push a pellet down the barrel and see if it loosens up after the knurling.
Mike
Hello people. Off topic again as usual:
So I am looking after my ailing Dad. Doing the good son thing. There are good times and well, times where I learn to flex my personal resilience. Phew. Soooooooo I took some time out to use the scope that I paid good money for and do not use enough!
Rifle: Gamo CF-S with yet another custom stock and cheek rest. Pellet: H@N FTT. Range: 40 m ( 43.7 Yards ). Scope: 3-9×42 Nikko Stirling Airking. ( shooting at 9x )
Making the cocking lever good really does make shooting nicer: custom bush and lubrication. Really easy to cock, for me. I’m no gorilla but I do lift some dumbells to make I don’t strain my arms doing things.
Rest: Fore stock on fist on left knee, the rest of me sitting in a low deck chair with my left foot on a 6×6 block. siting on an angle to the chair. Pretty comfy and not toooo stable, still have to really concentrate on shooting. Not like a sand bag on a bench.
After fiddling with the turrets I managed to start printing on the actual paper target… and then I started to get the magic. I really felt that there is a bit of a jump in the rifle when it does it’s thing and I have to go with it. So a sort of loose grip, good balance on my knee and let it bounce in the right direction. So two 10’s and three 9’s and a mess of holes later I quite feeling like I had my game on. Will do better next time.
BB et al. What is the best pellet , in your humble opinion, for the GAMO CF-S / CF-X etc series ? I am pretty sure my “spread” is me fighting the gun, but it also could be “indigestion”. Wadayathink?
Hope you are all in good form . : – )
PS. Next time I will try out my Anschutz Dioptre peep after a bit of scope time to see which I prefer.
RobertA,
As to what pellet to recommend, I don’t believe that will be easy for BB to answer because every barrel is a law unto themself. What pellets are available in your part of the world? It would be no good for Tom to recommend a pellet that turns into unobtainium over there. JSB is a reputable maker accurate in most guns but there are always exceptions regarding the barrels and batches. Are there pellets there that you haven’t tried? What brands are they?
I’ll be praying for your father’s health.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
Thank you for your prayers. . : – )
Pellets: Well I have only tired H@N FTT. Buying other tins at $25 NZD each … is something I need to take seriously. so, hmm, I will consider making a “pellet library”. If I that tightened up my group I would be happy as a lark in spring. I must face the impending truth: Test thy barrel with different pellets….
Uh oh Dad made a funny noise . Best go and see how he is doing!
RobertA.
RobertA,
I feel your pain, my dad has been gone for some time but the wife is needing constant care so the things I like to do are kinda on hold till we get her better.
But back to the off topic on topic I think you are at .22 cal and these are some of the best I have found in several rifles,
/product/h-n-baracuda-match-22-cal-21-14-grains-round-nose-200ct?p=21
/product/jsb-diabolo-exact-jumbo-express-22-cal-14-3-grains-domed-500ct?p=421
/product/jsb-match-diabolo-exact-jumbo-heavy-22-cal-18-13-grains-domed-500ct?p=690
/product/jsb-diabolo-exact-jumbo-22-cal-15-89-grains-domed-500ct?p=584
/product/jsb-match-diabolo-hades-22-cal-15-89-grain-hollowpoint-500-count?p=1508
If you have not tried these give them a go they may work for you.
Mike
Mike in Atl.
Being a carer for my Dad is all new to me, it’s a learning curve for sure. Cooking him great dinners has really been the key stone of this new stage for both of us. He may even put on weight which is awesome. He loves food. The rest is just practical stuff. Lifting him up is a work out. I will make a crane. I have an engine crane…. mmm… : – )
Sorry I didn’t mention but those holes printed in my target are .177 sized ones. I failed the blog, this is bad. I will do better next time! I will look over yous selection of pellets though. Thank you!
RobertA.
RobertA,
Sad but true, Once an adult, twice a child….
-Y
Yogi,
I did talk to my Dad about the interesting role reversal, then he reminded me of the time he helped me out. We laughed. It was a touching moment. Actually we have a lot of those and funny one too. He is such a dag. : – )
At 40m, I think you can eliminate wadcutters. RidgeRunner has/had a CFX and he could chime in on his favorite pellet. You may want to either ask him on the most current post or search the blog with an advanced Google search limited to this blog’s website. I recall him saying that his CFX was very particular about how it liked to be held, as well, so that may be another reason for the large groups. Some guns like to be held near the trigger guard and some near the tip of the forestock and others somewhere in between.
What I like to do is establish a baseline for accuracy testing off a solid rest (you will likely need to use the artillery hold with the back of your hand on the rest and the gun laying on your open palm). I like to start close in like 10 yards and test a few pellets and holds and then take the best ones and go for distance. I also love it when the cheap pellets outperform the more expensive ones, so I sometimes start with the cheapest pellets (on a per pellet basis), and move up the food chain until I get a few that group well. Once you find a few good pellets, you can buy in greater quantities, or wait for sales, or auctions, and that will hopefully lower your cost. Also, since you gun is a Go, it wouldn’t hurt to try some Gamo domed pellets. You never know. Also, if your pellets are going supersonic, try a heavier pellet to bring the speed down.
RG,
It’s really just my wobbly grip, sooooooo I will try a bench and sandbag. Which means I need to make a collapsible shooting bench…. even more DIY. I am working on the hold, as my rifle is now a semi bullpup it seems to balance quite well on my left hand and I can hold the grip lightly… so there is no actual “heavy grip” and I’m trying not to “control” the rifle. More time at the range will tell. I would not feel comfortably “in the zone” until I shot a couple of hundred pellets off. I think I may stick withe H@N FTT till I feel like I am getting the best out of them, then try something else and compare. As mentioned baselines… I think I will make the FTT’s mine. The new pellets will go up or down accordingly. I have still have about 400pels to go. so that should give me a good idea. All I have to do is drive out there… as far as supersonic goes they only go really fast when the rifle diesels after long storage , this is bad. I know. I should really disassemble and clean it all out… ) but I don’t have a chrony so I have actual nor idea who fast they are going bar “by ear”, which is pretty silly really. I did try some cheap Gamo pellets, a domed variation and I was surprised at how hard they were. The FFT’s were soft in comparison. Weird. Thank you. : – )
B.B.
WordPress is tardy again. When I was tardy I got demerits!
Isn’t technology grand?
-Y
BB. : – )
How about a blog post investigation on pellet shape? With attention on how much of the pellet contacts the bore wall etc. I am pretty that not all pellets are the same in this regard. and some are clearly more contacty than others. Thank you! ( or maybe this has been looked at in previous blogs ? )
Warmest regards, RobertA.