This report covers:
- LFranke
- RidgeRunner
- Summary
- Adjusting the trigger
- Safer triggers
- NYPD trigger
- I want super light!
- Summary
Today’s report was suggested by reader LFranke, who commented to last Thursday’s report titled, Who do you trust?
LFranke
“The one thing I have paid increasing attention to as I adapt along is trigger safety. My older and most faithful arms all have tens of thousands of rounds in their individual histories. Tens of thousands. In particular my P-1/Weihrauch 45, taught me that sometimes you have to INCREASE the resistance to let off in order to protect the ceiling and drywall! The self-polishing of the triggers and restraining barbs, or sears, can made them extremely LIGHT.”
“Indeed, I’d like Brother Tom to consider a potential article on this very thing! The “SENIOR TRIGGER and YOU!” There’s always some ongoing communication about refining a trigger, lubing it and setting it up to be MORE RESPONSIVE about new guns, but there is silence about a trigger that gets so smooth that it becomes, in point of fact, dangerous. In trigger evaluations of new pieces, there will be comments about the feel of the late first or the second stage point of let off – as well there should be, and how to adjust them for more subtle function. But….”
“Yet, I remember denting a air duct over the shooting table, and putting unintended rounds into the cement backer walls in the ballistic closet that took me a while to understand were NOT simply ME, but a trigger that became too light – WAY TOO LIGHT.”
“Fortunately, none of these Zepher-light let offs were pointed at flesh, neither mine nor anyone else’s. The P-1 was the piece that exceedingly taught me that a three of decades and dozens and dozens and dozens of tins of pellets means that those disengaging and sliding trigger parts and piston sears become extremely slippery with time and self-polish. Even the slightest bit of RWS blue lube just makes things no longer lubricated but unstable to the point that I re-read the owners manual and INCREASED the trigger resistance to regain predictability and SAFETY.”
“Is it time for an article on Senior Air Arms? I think so with some technical counsel in order to keep the shooter and any observers (and the air ducts and drywall) safe from harm!”
“Again, maybe it is time for an article on AGING TRIGGERS? When should one begin to do a “study” on each elder weapon? What should one look for as a diagnostic check off pattern? Is there a relationship between the number of pellet tins (select a tin count standard?), and when one should do a purposed and detailed evaluation of the trigger function?”
RidgeRunner
Then reader RidgeRunner said “I must agree with LFranke on the subject of “Senior Triggers”. Dealing almost exclusively with these “old gals” I have on occasion come across triggers that are just too light for their own good. My 1959 Daisy 99 has a very light trigger. Being made of aluminum, I am quite certain it is just worn away. My Izzy has a super light trigger, but that is because I have adjusted it to be that way.”
“I have known an old .22LR that had a trigger you had better approach with caution, or you would find it going off as soon as you touched the trigger. Triggers can and do wear out. This is more likely to be found in old sproingers than PCPs because of the force they may hold back.”
“I have encountered this problem more with single stage triggers. As parts become worn, they may not engage as they should or they become easier to disengage, often from wearing smoother along the contact surfaces. I would be most cautious in removing a case-hardened surface. That is asking for trouble.”
Summary
Just kidding!
But seriously, these subjects should be addressed. So the subject is aging triggers. I will add a second one — triggers that can be adjusted too light. Today I will comment on the triggers that can be adjusted too light. I’ll do it with two pictures.
That’s a dent in the steel door of a cabinet in my office. It got there when the trigger of a modern repeating CO2 rifle I was testing was adjusted too light and slipped while being cocked.
That (arrow) is a pellet hole in my office wall, caused when the trigger of a BSF S55 was adjusted too light. It also slipped after being cocked.
Adjusting the trigger
Just because you can adjust a trigger very light doesn’t mean you should. Both these “stupidents” happened when I adjusted farther than I should have. The first rifle that dented the cabinet door was brand new and I was unaware the trigger could be adjusted so far.
The second rifle was an oldie and was well-used. Robert Beeman warned people in his catalog that BSF triggers could be adjusted too light and they do wear in to become too slippery.
The BSF rifle trigger was made of many steel plates riveted together. It was cheaper than machining a block of steel, and low-carbon steel plates could be used, once they were case-hardened.
Robert Beeman and Robert Law both warned that the BSF trigger wore into a VERY smooth unit. Any adjustments that were set light while the trigger was formerly stiff would become dangerously light as it wore in. What they became in my house was a hole in the wall, as I was testing the trigger adjustments of my well-worn BSF trigger for you readers! There was also a hole in the ceiling of my office from the same rifle but my wife made me patch it. I patched it the military way — with toothpaste!
The words “trigger adjustment screw” are written on the bottom of the BSF triggerguard with directions which way to turn it. Don’t adjust too light!
Safer triggers
There aren’t many aftermarket triggers made for airguns. The Mach II that was sold 25 years ago is the only one I know of and it was almost a handmade unit. It replaced a Rekord and was safe to adjust very light. There are homemade airgun trigger fixes all over the chat forums, but watch out for those that promise a lighter trigger. You may be endangering your ceilings and walls.
There are many more aftermarket triggers made for firearms and the AR-15 is the recipient of a lot of them. I put a Geissle unit on my rifle and I like it a lot. I also put an aftermarket trigger on my Ruger 10/22, just to get a crisper release. That one doesn’t adjust, but it now has a crisp release.
Ian McKee’s report on the Glock clone will be interesting because Glocks have notoriously rough triggers from the factory and aftermarket units will put them right. In fact, the current best replacement trigger for a Glock is made by Glock. That’s right — even they know there is a problem and they have a way to fix it — one that’s widely regarded as the best!
NYPD trigger
Ton Jones has a Glock 19 clone (the same one Ian McKee is reporting on) that he let me shoot recently and I noted that it was reliable and accurate and had one of the worst handgun triggers I have ever pulled. My guess was it released at 10 pounds. Ton thought it might be an NYPD trigger. He has two young boys and, although he stores his firearms in safe places, he retains the horrible trigger for an extra measure of safety.
For many years the New York City police department specified the trigger pull on their Glock pistols had to be 12 pounds, and you can read many guesses on the internet why that was. In 2021 the NYPD switched to a 5-pound trigger pull to help new recruits adapt to their pistols more quickly. They also discovered that such triggers were safer in the field.
I want super light!
There will still be shooters who want super light triggers. Most of them won’t be older shooters though, because the old guys probably have a story or two to tell when a light trigger surprised them. If you want a super light trigger and you want to be safe at the same time (plug your ears, RidgeRunner) you’ll have to PAY for it!
This double set trigger on my HW 52 (Weihrauch-dropping block rifle in .22 Hornet caliber) can safely be set to release at LESS than 1/10-ounce. My electronic trigger-pull gauge registers NOTHING!
Summary
So, LFranke and RidgeRunner — that’s my first take on light triggers and seniors. I didn’t talk about shooting in the cold or defense shooting. What I really did was show that MANY seniors have a story about a trigger that was adjusted too light. Today the discussion was about adjusting triggers too light. I will return to discuss triggers that wear out from use. Beyond that I don’t know what to say.
BB,
Great report here; I’m really looking forward to the follow on:
” I will return to discuss triggers that wear out from use.”
As for this:
“Beyond that I don’t know what to say.”
No doubt some of us here will have a suggestion, either today or after part 2. 😉
Blessings to you,
dave
Dave,
I was hoping for suggestions of things to report.
BB
BB,
There was a question that came to mind as I re-read this report. You said:
“The BSF rifle trigger was made of many steel plates riveted together. It was cheaper than machining a block of steel, and low-carbon steel plates could be used, once they were case-hardened.”
My question is this: on cheaper steels, like the low-carbon steel plates used here, is the very thin case-hardened surface more likely to just wear through over time than it would if they had used a solid piece of a better-quality steel and increased the depth of the case-hardened surface (if that’s possible)?
I figure if I had that thought, it’s likely that someone else did…just my 2 cents. 😉
Blessings to you,
dave
Dave,
The case hardening should not wear through if it was done correctly, which it almost always is. When better quality steel is used, the hardness can be throughout the piece, but the cost skyrockets.
BB
Thanks, BB; I’m constantly learning on this blog! 🙂
Tom,
Pardon my ignorance, but toothpaste?
Ok I will shoot a few 100 rounds of +10gr .177 through my “new” old gun before acting on my impulse to take it apart.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
White Toothpaste has been used by renters to repair Sheetrock/Gypsum board/plaster when small holes or dents are made by nails, screws, dings, bumps, scrapes and the person making the repair doesn’t have Spackle, mud, or some joint compound at hand. It can be sanded and painted once dry. It may crack during drying shrink which can be avoided by incorporating some crushed aspirin dust in the paste before application.
On you rifle you could dilute the suspected petroleum based oil used by the previous owner with a drop or two of RWS (or similar silicone) Chamber Oil to see if it helps lower the smoke level. If it does just keep adding a few drops more often then you normally would until you are happy or decide to take it apart to clean the light oil out.
shootski
Shootski,
Thanks for clearing that up since we didn’t usually use dry wall in our previous constructions. Cement with rebar and plywood with studs are the traditional construction methods I’m familiar with. Only recently have people been using cement fiberboard for construction.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
Having visited or lived in numerous countries around the world i knew it would be not understood.
As soon as i read Tom’s toothpaste repair sentence i suspected that The Readership in many countries would be having a huh? moment so i answered your posted reply with that as well as the suggestion to dilute the smoking oil in your airgun’s compression
chamber ;^)
shootski
That toothpaste-and-aspirin repair method seems pretty painless to Senior Citizen FM, shootski.
FawltyManuel,
Well I NEVER intended any of the SENIOR Readership to be quick enough to catch the PUN in that reply; your Sir are the consummate punster!
shootski
SIRANIKO: Toothpaste has long been the drywall patch of choice for those pesky holes appearing in our ceilings and walls . . . of course as air gunners, we always use Aim Toothpaste. I just had to say it, Orv.
Hoppalong Doc,
Where do you buy that? At your local Target? 😎
Siraniko
You guys are getting good at this PUNishing sport!
Siraniko,
;^)
shootski
Very good! Toothpaste was also used in college dorms to fix those holes for the very few dormitories that actually used sheetrock and not concrete block walls. When I first got my Baikal ISH46M, I found the trigger way too light. Same with a Marauder I had “adjusted” to the point that I could think both of them to fire. Had to add weight to both. On the other hand, a Barrett Spitfire side cocking rifle I bought at an airgun show (the Webley Tracker) has a trigger that, after 10 cycles, is painful to shoot! Was a piece of garbage! One of these days, I’m going to modify it.
Fred formerly of the Demokratik Peeples Republik of NJ now happily in GA
Hoppalong Doc,
Good one!
shootski
Siraniko,
If the wall or ceiling is white you can get a good match. It’s a GI thing.
BB
The GIs must have come from the universities to avoid being billed by the Bursar for damage to a dorm room?
Actually, one can buy very small units of pre-mixed spackle and use a plastic knife and finger to make great repairs that are not usually in need of a finish sanding – if one takes one’s time and care to make it totally flush. And a buffing with a damp cloth will handle extremely small blemishes.
A tiny dab of original Colgate, applied with a finger, will make nail holes and other small “blemishes” in college dorm drywall disappear instantly. Don’t ask me how I know. ;o) Cheers!
B.B.,
I read a report about the NYPD ND rate compared to the Baltimore PD’s ND rate and the researcher thought/concluded it had more to do with better training then trigger pull weight. The round accountability (miss rate) for NYPD compared to Baltimore PD also showed the difference that better training accomplished in Baltimore. NYPD had range time, (re)qualification standards and practice ammo shortages that were CRIMINAL during those years as well.
shootski
Shootski,
Just an example of bureaucracy trying a bizarre option rather than committing to teaching the end users the proper and responsible method of handling.
Siraniko
It is what you get when you allow ignorant, essentially anti-gun bureaucrats to be in charge of law enforcement weapons policy but then this is NYC we’re talking about.
B.B.
The first rule of gun safety I learned was keep your cotton pick’n finger away from the trigger until you have pointed your gun at the target. Why do you think trigger guards are shaped the way that they are??
Most of the above sounds like poor safety protocol to me!
-Yogi
PS heavy triggers are inaccurate triggers!
Yogi,
The Goldilocks trigger is what we seek. Not too light that it becomes unpredictable and not too heavy that we struggle to pull it when we want the gun to go off. And yes we have lots of shooters here wanting hair triggers on their rifles whether they use them for competition or not.
Siraniko
Yogi,
I have learned from police training scenarios that rapid response is the best way to stay alive. I don’t fault cops for their fingers on the trigger because if they draw their weapon they usually intend shooting.
BB
B.B.,
My daughter would.
She would tell you that poor situational awareness is at fault for most hasty draws.
shootski
Yogi,
And here I though they shape trigger guards the way they do to make it extremely difficult to wage war in Finland!
shootski
With gloves on….
-Y
Yogi,
I preferred: https://www.amazon.com/Jack-Pyke-England-Suede-Shooters/dp/B004FKN4WC
Mitts. These have all fingers knitted short but back in the day i bought mine direct with only the index finger short. They also supplied some fantastic Kid Leather Flying Gloves in light grey(UK) American gray.
shootski
Does anyone have any data showing the precision differences of a gun vs. the trigger pull weight? I realize trigger pull will likely influence a unique shooter more than others but in my experiences I have not seen where trigger pull has had a major influence on precision. For example, most of my testing has been done on the Crosman 362 series of guns. I don’t believe these guns have a “bad” trigger but I don’t see anyone bragging about them either or stating they rival that of the Rekord or others that are considered admirable. However, in testing, I have experienced these guns going from 6 MOA and greater (around 1.5″ groups at 25 yards) to 1.5 MOA (~3/8″ groups @ 25 yards) with select barrel/pellet combinations all with the same trigger and no modifications to it along the way.
It seems to me there is a lot more emphasis put on triggers than what can be justified. I’m also convinced, at least for me, that achieving sub 1.5 MOA is still primarily a function of a combination of factors of which the trigger is not a major contributor to but would agree it becomes more significant as the precision increases. In the hunt for the absolute ultimate precision such as in competition shooting I suppose it becomes a worthwhile focal point, but a 1/2 MOA gain in the typical air gun use range doesn’t seem like something to pursue with a lot of time and effort when other factors have shown to throw precision off much more significantly, especially when one considers the potential reduction of safety of the gun in the process.
I’m just curious if anyone is experiencing differences in precision in the >1 MOA range they can confirm is a result of trigger weight adjustment alone to learn of others’ experiences. Thanks in advance if anyone has data or personal experience of this.
AGA,
It has been my experience that a hard to pull trigger can most definitely affect accuracy, most especially at longer ranges. Having said that, once a person becomes accustomed to how a particular trigger behaves, a person can subconsciously compensate for such. That may have something to do with your improvement over time. That and wear.
In ten-meter air rifle shooting, you would likely be quite surprised by the low let off of the triggers these folks use in competition. With ten-meter air pistol shooting the governing bodies require a five hundred gram let off, I do believe for safety’s sake. That is really not very much. Most people would be surprised by the discharge. In 3P shooting, the required trigger pull is 1 1/2 pounds of pull.
The “average” finger finds it hard to distinguish the difference of a couple of ounces. Having a trigger set at less than one pound becomes dangerous for the average shooter.
Unfortunately, there have been those who have experienced massive doses of adrenalin while using firearms. For those folks, a trigger pull of five pounds is not even noticeable. Neither is the recoil.
RR:
I agree with your assessment on trigger weight an accuracy after a certain point of pull. I don’t measure the weight of my trigger pulls with a precise scale. No real need so to do, they are all acceptable but one. I do have a Trevox pistol that is beyond the pale, it’s pull is so incredibly high that pulling the trigger pulls the piece off target. The trigger is less like an arm than one of those coiled spring grip development exercise devices that acts like a pair of pliers with a horrific attitude. The trigger is so bad that the pistol inhabits the very back of the arms locker, and, as an arm, is just pretty useless. It can and will stay there as it isn’t worth a lot of, or even any, investment in it.
The point of my raising the issue of pull weight was to consider if a standard drill of some sort should be devised to do a logical evaluation of when to intervene on an aging trigger. Hopefully, Tom will be addressing this in issues to come….
I think some focus on a trigger maintenance discipline, or routine, would be in order – in particular with our older pieces. I’m not writing, here, about the discipline and routine of shooting the piece, but approaching its evaluation and function on a regular and sequential pattern.
I’ve kept paper targets related to breaking in different arms and used the sequence of the target roundels to show the progress (as designated by dating and sequence numbers, to work out kinks in their use and adaptation of peep sights or scopes. Applying disciplined sequences to aging triggers, what would be a reasonable outline for following an aging (or actually ANY) air arm?
For example, should one do some kind of a shooting sequence at X number of tins of pellets, with some kind of simple scoring of selected parameters, so determine the point when either simple maintenance or a return to professional service should be done?
With all my break barrels, for example (in a related way), I have established standard approaches to caring for the spring piston or gam rams I own. I start with a Bore Paste and bronze brush of the bore followed by felt pellets PUSHED through the bore to remove the worst of the paste and removed crud. Then felt pellets are drowned in Sheath/Barrier and pushed through and allowed to soak over night. Following the soak of at least 12 hours, dry felt pellets are pushed through to remove the oil.
During the overnight soak, the compression chamber is treated with RWS Air Chamber lube with the muzzle up and the butt stock down. This is shot out and the barrel felt pellet cleaned out after the bangs and smoking of the excess Chamber lube is gone.
The stock is Minwaxed and polished a couple of times for its stay in the arms cabinet so the Minwax has a good chance to harden, and the metal work coated with Sheath/Barrier on a micro-fiber cloth forms a dried film. The linkages and hinges are hit with drops of RWS blue oil and the excess taken off by a cleaning cloth. It takes time but protects the increasingly expensive investment of dollars from sweat and the elements.
All this protects the surfaces and gets rid of any machining offal that might have been left behind by the manufacturer. It also improves the discernment of what the potential is of the piece to be a spot on shooter or a piece destined for a long process of finding the right pellet that “fills the bore” or a place in the very back of the arms locker.
———
I am suggesting the maybe a suggested drill for trigger inspection, evaluation and maintenance could be suggested based on either tins of pellets (likely to start) and known trigger phenomena? In other words, a kind of Service Schedule for air arms not unlike the ones familiar to motor vehicles? It could be based on a schedule of initial care and then points wherein one should do a serious evaluation of the cocking function and lock up and trigger function at X number of 500 count pellet tins. It could include any tech tips that might be appropriate for non-tech users to use to EVALUATE their arms (not necessarily to repair them in the absence of tech skills and tools, of course). Obviously, included in such a guide would be the instruction to READ the MANUAL regarding adjustments.
Maybe as well some CRITERIA that would instruct the arms owner and shooter when it is time to seek tech service of one’s piece (particularly if one is not possessed of gunsmith skills or tools).
Many of us older shooters inherently probably follow “Dirty Harry,” the Clint Eastwood character, who said in a movie, “A man’s gotta know his limitations!” That’s true in all things, but for new air gunners maybe a little more true, for safety’s sake, than we usually think? A recommended service guide, might be helpful and prevent drywall damage?
My air arms will likely last for a generation more (or two?) because they are quality air arms AND I’ve learned the maintenance techniques required for them to shoot well and hard. I, of course, might not be the best shot, but the arms ARE as good and as well prepared as any and will perform well with a good shot (within their engineered limits). What I’m suggesting is that professional air arm techs and teachers (Hello, Tom!) might benefit the shooting community (and in particular those new to it) with a prototype Maintenance Schedule & EVALUATION GUIDE. Then….old triggers might be “experienced” triggers that work BETTER than the day they came out of the shipping box?
I
RidgeRunner,
Never experienced an Adrenalin RUSH…
COLD as ICE.
I have a river ford i can sell you i already unloaded my last bridge.
shootski
AirGunnerAmeteur,
One shot at a time precision or multiple shots quickly?
See my reply on Mass and Force.
shootski
One shot at a time as I’m commenting in regards to single-shot pellet guns but understand trigger action refers to much more than that (i.e. there is a much larger world outside of pellet guns) which I haven’t really discovered or got into so far. When I get on this blog my mind seems to revolve around air guns and need to overcome that mindset. Thanks for the more technical info regarding trigger action in related comments.
AirGunnerAmeteur,
Airguns have had repeaters for some time usually with a bolt action or a revolver action. Recently a number of true semi automatic and even a few full automatics have begun to grow in numbers and quality. Folks are going really fast in Silhouette and things are only going to get much more interesting as folks do more and more PRC competitions with airguns.
I look forward to the demand for increased shootability, quality, and performance in airguns.
shootski
Over the years it has been my experience that too light a trigger can indeed be dangerous. It took a bit of time for Blake (my fifteen-year-old grandson) and Quinn to learn to handle my Izzy. As I have said, it has been adjusted to have a VERY light trigger.
I have also seen some triggers on some “old gals” that have been worn so smooth and have so little catch surface that they are indeed dangerous. What is nice is being able to adjust triggers to where they are no longer dangerous, but sometimes you cannot do such.
Please do let me make it clear that this has nothing to do with the age of the shooter, although that can be a factor as their fingertips do tend to be less sensitive than most young’uns. That is why I put forth about my Izzy. Knowing your trigger helps. I have pulled what most sensible folks would consider horrible triggers. They were long, grindy, indistinct let off things. I have also pulled some that you think “shoot” and it goes off. For most folks, somewhere in between is a better setting.
Is that trigger of yours worn?
And here FM thought BB was writing about triggers FOR Senior Citizens…
It is a serious subject; for this shooter and that includes firearm shooting, the best policy has always been “if the trigger pull is satisfactory, leave the trigger alone.” Do not recall ever adjusting a trigger on a firearm/airgun because for one thing, FM is a believer in the “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” concept and for another, he subscribes to the philosophy of “he who expects little will seldom be disappointed.”
I think that proper user trigger technique is important. Learning from BB’s blogs and Jim Owens’ book I have become much more proficient with triggers. Jim relates the technique he was taught in the USMC. It is named “B.R.A.S.S.” which stands for Breathe, Relax, Aim, Slack, and Squeeze. I currently think about each of these in sequence as I shoot. Hopefully, it will become more automatic as time goes on. The “slack” portion is simply taking up the “slack” of the first stage of the trigger to where the second stage resistance begins to be felt.
If you shoot a variety of guns it usually takes a few shots to get used to the feel of each trigger. And that is where the habit of not touching the trigger until the gun is safely aimed at the target (as Yogi indicated) is most critical. Especially with the very light triggers.
I think some focus on a trigger maintenance discipline, or routine, would be in order – in particular with our older pieces. I’m not writing, here, about the discipline and routine of shooting the piece, but approaching its evaluation and function on a regular and sequential pattern.
I think you for the BRASS nomenclature. That describes what I’ve been doing unknowingly over a lot of years! The USMC put the process into words, which is certainly helpful for teaching.
I’ve kept paper targets related to breaking in different arms and used the sequence of the target roundels to show the progress (as designated by dating and sequence numbers, to work out kinks in their use and adaptation of peep sights or scopes. Applying disciplined sequences to aging triggers, what would be a reasonable outline for following an aging (or actually ANY) air arm?
For example, should one do some kind of a shooting sequence at X number of tins of pellets, with some kind of simple scoring of selected parameters, so determine the point when either simple maintenance or a return to professional service should be done?
With all my break barrels, for example (in a related way), I have established standard approaches to caring for the spring piston or gam rams I own. I start with a Bore Paste and bronze brush of the bore followed by felt pellets PUSHED through the bore to remove the worst of the paste and removed crud. Then felt pellets are drowned in Sheath/Barrier and pushed through and allowed to soak over night. Following the soak of at least 12 hours, dry felt pellets are pushed through to remove the oil.
During the overnight soak, the compression chamber is treated with RWS Air Chamber lube with the muzzle up and the butt stock down. This is shot out and the barrel felt pellet cleaned out after the bangs and smoking of the excess Chamber lube is gone.
The stock is Minwaxed and polished a couple of times for its stay in the arms cabinet so the Minwax has a good chance to harden, and the metal work coated with Sheath/Barrier on a micro-fiber cloth forms a dried film. The linkages and hinges are hit with drops of RWS blue oil and the excess taken off by a cleaning cloth. It takes time but protects the increasingly expensive investment of dollars from sweat and the elements.
All this protects the surfaces and gets rid of any machining offal that might have been left behind by the manufacturer. It also improves the discernment of what the potential is of the piece to be a spot on shooter or a piece destined for a long process of finding the right pellet that “fills the bore” or a place in the very back of the arms locker.
———
I am suggesting the maybe a suggested drill for trigger inspection, evaluation and maintenance could be suggested based on either tins of pellets (likely to start) and known trigger phenomena? In other words, a kind of Service Schedule for air arms not unlike the ones familiar to motor vehicles? It could be based on a schedule of initial care and then points wherein one should do a serious evaluation of the cocking function and lock up and trigger function at X number of 500 count pellet tins. It could include any tech tips that might be appropriate for non-tech users to use to EVALUATE their arms (not necessarily to repair them in the absence of tech skills and tools, of course). Obviously, included in such a guide would be the instruction to READ the MANUAL regarding adjustments.
Maybe as well some CRITERIA that would instruct the arms owner and shooter when it is time to seek tech service of one’s piece (particularly if one is not possessed of gunsmith skills or tools).
Many of us older shooters inherently probably follow “Dirty Harry,” the Clint Eastwood character, who said in a movie, “A man’s gotta know his limitations!” That’s true in all things, but for new air gunners maybe a little more true, for safety’s sake, than we usually think? A recommended service guide, might be helpful and prevent drywall damage?
My air arms will likely last for a generation more (or two?) because they are quality air arms AND I’ve learned the maintenance techniques required for them to shoot well and hard. I, of course, might not be the best shot, but the arms ARE as good and as well prepared as any and will perform well with a good shot (within their engineered limits). What I’m suggesting is that professional air arm techs and teachers (Hello, Tom!) might benefit the shooting community (and in particular those new to it) with a prototype Maintenance Schedule & EVALUATION GUIDE. Then….old triggers might be “experienced” triggers that work BETTER than the day they came out of the shipping box?
Ia
Interesting subject.
I’ve always wondered where the “hair-trigger” expression/requirement came from.
I suspect that excessively heavy triggers were lightened to be usable and somebody decided that if lighter was better then ultra light was even better still. Seen many rifles adjusted to being dangerously light.
IMHO, for most shooters, in typical scenarios (non competitive environments) the factory trigger settings are fine if they use proper trigger protocol.
A hair-trigger is not going to miraculously make an expert shot out of someone who needs to work on basic form and consistency. If anything, an overly light trigger can cause poorer groups than one set to a more reasonable weight… especially when shooting with cold fingers.
Hank
B.B. and Readership,
Trigger weight and trigger pull are often conflated; especially in target shooting circles.
The place where understanding the difference comes is when doing large volume SHORT interval timed fire. The goal is to be able to deliver one round every
0.2 seconds or less until the slide locks back on an empty chamber.
Trigger weight is actually better stated as Trigger Mass
And Trigger Pull as a quantitative Force vector when you need to have your shot cycle be as quick as possible in practical shooting competition or in the life and death circumstances of shootouts where number of accurately
placed rounds on Target (s) stops the threat sooner.
The holes/cutouts in slides and triggers are not for looks but rather to reduce Mass to allow the F=ma and a=F/m formulas to work to shorten the shot cycle.
shootski
And then there are the Double Action revolvers that were the standard duty sidearm for decades. Additionally the not uncommon DA/SA semi auto pistol such as the Beretta M9 series. A DA trigger pull of 9-14 lbs. would not be out of the ordinary. Makes sense to train with or for what you’re actually going to be shooting, if you’re wanting reasonable accuracy. Get to know your firearm/airgun ; then tweak as needed to maximize the performance for the intended purpose.
BB,
HW 52?? I have never heard of that rifle before, Weihrauch fanboy and all that I am. I am also totally unfamiliar with .22 Hornet caliber.
Could you please do a report on that rifle sometime, even though it’s a powder burner?
Bob,
This report will give you a look at the entire rifle.
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2012/11/treasure-hunting-for-great-airguns/
BB
I think some focus on a trigger maintenance discipline, or routine, would be in order – in particular with our older pieces. I’m not writing, here, about the discipline and routine of shooting the piece, but approaching its evaluation and function on a regular and sequential pattern.
I think you for the BRASS nomenclature. That describes what I’ve been doing unknowingly over a lot of years! The USMC put the process into words, which is certainly helpful for teaching.
I’ve kept paper targets related to breaking in different arms and used the sequence of the target roundels to show the progress (as designated by dating and sequence numbers, to work out kinks in their use and adaptation of peep sights or scopes. Applying disciplined sequences to aging triggers, what would be a reasonable outline for following an aging (or actually ANY) air arm?
For example, should one do some kind of a shooting sequence at X number of tins of pellets, with some kind of simple scoring of selected parameters, so determine the point when either simple maintenance or a return to professional service should be done?
With all my break barrels, for example (in a related way), I have established standard approaches to caring for the spring piston or gam rams I own. I start with a Bore Paste and bronze brush of the bore followed by felt pellets PUSHED through the bore to remove the worst of the paste and removed crud. Then felt pellets are drowned in Sheath/Barrier and pushed through and allowed to soak over night. Following the soak of at least 12 hours, dry felt pellets are pushed through to remove the oil.
During the overnight soak, the compression chamber is treated with RWS Air Chamber lube with the muzzle up and the butt stock down. This is shot out and the barrel felt pellet cleaned out after the bangs and smoking of the excess Chamber lube is gone.
The stock is Minwaxed and polished a couple of times for its stay in the arms cabinet so the Minwax has a good chance to harden, and the metal work coated with Sheath/Barrier on a micro-fiber cloth forms a dried film. The linkages and hinges are hit with drops of RWS blue oil and the excess taken off by a cleaning cloth. It takes time but protects the increasingly expensive investment of dollars from sweat and the elements.
All this protects the surfaces and gets rid of any machining offal that might have been left behind by the manufacturer. It also improves the discernment of what the potential is of the piece to be a spot on shooter or a piece destined for a long process of finding the right pellet that “fills the bore” or a place in the very back of the arms locker.
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I am suggesting the maybe a suggested drill for trigger inspection, evaluation and maintenance could be suggested based on either tins of pellets (likely to start) and known trigger phenomena? In other words, a kind of Service Schedule for air arms not unlike the ones familiar to motor vehicles? It could be based on a schedule of initial care and then points wherein one should do a serious evaluation of the cocking function and lock up and trigger function at X number of 500 count pellet tins. It could include any tech tips that might be appropriate for non-tech users to use to EVALUATE their arms (not necessarily to repair them in the absence of tech skills and tools, of course). Obviously, included in such a guide would be the instruction to READ the MANUAL regarding adjustments.
Maybe as well some CRITERIA that would instruct the arms owner and shooter when it is time to seek tech service of one’s piece (particularly if one is not possessed of gunsmith skills or tools).
Many of us older shooters inherently probably follow “Dirty Harry,” the Clint Eastwood character, who said in a movie, “A man’s gotta know his limitations!” That’s true in all things, but for new air gunners maybe a little more true, for safety’s sake, than we usually think? A recommended service guide, might be helpful and prevent drywall damage?
My air arms will likely last for a generation more (or two?) because they are quality air arms AND I’ve learned the maintenance techniques required for them to shoot well and hard. I, of course, might not be the best shot, but the arms ARE as good and as well prepared as any and will perform well with a good shot (within their engineered limits). What I’m suggesting is that professional air arm techs and teachers (Hello, Tom!) might benefit the shooting community (and in particular those new to it) with a prototype Maintenance Schedule & EVALUATION GUIDE. Then….old triggers might be “experienced” triggers that work BETTER than the day they came out of the shipping box?
Ia