Air Venturi MicroStrike PCP air pistol
This report covers:
- Air Arms 16-grain dome
- Discharge
- JTS Dead Center 18.1-grain dome
- JSB Exact Jumbo Monster Redesigned
- Discussion one
- Shot count
- Discussion two
- Last thing
- Summary
Today we look at the power of the .22-caliber Air Venturi MicroStrike PCP air pistol we are testing. There is a nice surprise in this report.
Part two is usually a velocity test and that’s what we will do today. But first the pistol needed to be filled to 4351 psi / 300 bar, so that is what I did. I used my RovAir Portable compressor and the fill went fast.
I had to remove the water filter because the hose that connects it to the airgun is leaking. Believe me—I don’t like doing this but these super high pressure airguns are causing lots of problems with fittings. Let’s get to the test!
Air Arms 16-grain dome
When I started the test the rifle was at 4351 psi / 300 bar. The first pellet to be tested was the Air Arms 16-grain dome. Ten of them averaged 601 f.p.s. The spread went from a low of 591 to a high of 609 f.p.s. That’s a difference of 18 f.p.s. At the average velocity the power was 12.84 foot pounds. I’ll say something about that in the discussion.
Discharge
I tested the pistol for the discharge sound three times. The average sound was 103.5 decibels, so the MicroStrike pistol is quite loud. Thankfully it’s threaded for an airgun silencer and no adaptor is needed. I wore noise-cancelling earmuffs while shooting today but in the future I think I’ll attach my silencer.
JTS Dead Center 18.1-grain dome
I tested the JTS Dead Center 18.1-grain dome next. Ten averaged 532 f.p.s. The velocity went from a low of 526 to a high of 536 f.p.s. That’s a spread of 10 f.p.s. At the average velocity this pellet developed 11.38 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle. While shooting this pellet I discovered a couple things that I’ll address in the discussion.
JSB Exact Jumbo Monster Redesigned
The last pellet I tested was the 25.39-grain JSB Exact Jumbo Monster Redesigned dome. At the start of this string the pistol’s pressure gauge indicated there was still 3,000 psi / 206.84 bar still in the tank.
Ten pellets averaged 439 f.p.s. The low was 436 and the high was 444 f.p.s. That’s a difference of 8 feet per second and it’s mostly due to something I discovered while shooting.
At the average velocity this pellet generated 10.82 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle. That’s a lot lower than the 27 foot pounds we see in the description and it deserves a discussion.
Discussion one
The MicroStrike is regulated. We see that in the small velocity variations, and it’s going to be a plus for us in another area—the shot count that is still to come.
The regulator is adjustable and it is quite unique in how it operates, which was covered in Part 1. So I have something special coming for you.
I also discovered while shooting that the pistol I am testing needs a LOT of time between shots for the plenum (the air chamber the regulator fills for each shot) to refill. That’s why the spread for the second and third strings is so small. The longer I waited between shots the faster the pellet went.
Shot count
The shot count is where the test pistol also differed greatly from the pistol Tyler Patner reported in his Insyder video. He said the pistol gets 26 shots per fill. I got 49. That is the nice surprise I mentioned at the beginning.
Let me show you the numbers after the three pellets were tested. I went back to the Air Arms 16-grain dome for this test. I also decided to end this test when the velocity fell below the 591 f.p.s. that was the lowest velocity for this pellet in the first string.
Shot……….vel.
31…………..600
32………….604
33………….594
34………….598
35………….595
36………….607
37………….605
38………….599
39………….600
40………….601
41………….606 1800 psi remaining in pistol
42………….603
43………….607
44………….605
45………….598 1600 psi remaining
46………….594
47………….596
48………….594 1400 psi remaining
49………….602
50………….582 end 1200 psi remaining
Discussion two
Because of the huge differences between my results and Tyler’s I would like to adjust the regulator pressure to something higher than 1,000 psi and retest to see what results I get. If you readers are okay with that I’ll do it.
I could have gotten higher velocity this time if I’d used a lighter pellet in the tests. An RWS Hobby would no doubt have given me higher numbers. I don’t need to see higher numbers but this is a .22 air pistol. I would adjust the reg higher if this pistol was my own. I’d personally like something around 20 foot pounds, but if we do the reg adjustment we’ll see what happens.
Last thing
I did one last thing. I photographed the pressure gauge after the test was complete. I won’t test this pistol again for a couple weeks and when I do I want to see where the air pressure is.
This is where the pressure is at the end of the test.
Summary
So far the Air Venturi MicroStrike PCP air pistol is performing just as it should.
B.B.
So we will need to wait several weeks until the next review of this gun?
Bummer!!!
-Yogi
Tom,
A note/memo should be sent to manufacturers. “Pressure beyond 3000psi will practically guarantee a leaky PCP. Leaky PCPs lead to complaints which will lead to decreased sales.”
Surely the adjustable regulator needs testing. Hopefully we can still get good accuracy out of the carbine with a higher velocity. Maybe you should do an accuracy test before fiddling around with the regulator? That way you can create a baseline for accuracy of the unit at hand.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
Oh, there is a note to manufacturers coming!
BB
BB
Will readers get to see the note to manufacturers?
Deck
Deck,
Friday.
BB
Let’s hope that AirForce will read this note. I recently realized they have a 250bar limit now.
Siraniko this is a sound proposition.
BB, I would like to add that this accuracy test must be done without any silencer (usual suspect) attached…
B.B.,
“The longer I waited between shots the faster the pellet went.”
– What? How long do you have to wait?… Never had something like that in PCP. I assume something like “rapid fire” does not work with this pistol.
tomek,
All regulated airguns work this way. Some take less time. This one takes longer.
That may change when the reg pressure is increased.
BB
B.B.,
It is clear for me, of course. What I mean – usually to fill the regulated chamber takes less than a second, never faced so slow airflow in regulated PCP.
tomek,
It varies. Some guns can take only a few seconds. Most take longer like this one.
BB
Ok, that’s a bit new to me. I do not have such a great experience :/ Good to know, it may take a really long time, ok, ok. I will be more careful testing new PCP’s now.
tomek,
Once upon a time I had a something or other that seemed to take forever to fill the plenum. I do not know what it was, but it lives elsewhere now. Everything I own now will fill faster than I care to shoot.
The speed of the regulator in actual use should not make much difference unless you are trying to shoot very rapidly. But then will you hit what you are aiming at?
However when shooting with CO2 this delayed is needed to allow the cylinder / cartridge to stabilize temperature / pressure to ensure consistent velocity / accuracy. I usually use a single shot swing tray from Maple when I am target shooting with my Diana Chaser. Then shift to their (Maple) magazine when I desire less time between shots.
https://maplecustomproducts.com
Mike
Mike,
Thanks for the link. I just may have to give that single shot thingy for the Marauder pistol a try. I would not mind finding something like that for my BSA R10 SE.
I just bought a Marauder pistol. It only fills to three thousand PSI. I start freaking out when the fill pressure needs to go higher than that. THREE HUNDRED BAR!!! Are you kidding me?! No wonder things start leaking.
I do need to get a new chronograph so I can see where the tops of my shot curves are so I can lower my fill pressures. I used to have an Airforce Talon SS that I filled to only nineteen hundred PSI. Any more than that and it would slow down. Even at that low fill pressure I would get over twenty shots before the groups started opening. How many shots do you need?
Lower fill pressures have my vote!
RidgeRunner of the Peeples Demakratik Republik of Virginia 🙁
RR,
I have had a PRod for 10+ years and I shoot it more than anything. 10,000+ rounds I’m sure. 500 squirrels worth, probably. If I remember 2800psi is a common top end, I don’t remember the bottom.
I would try a full fill to 3k, shoot at your most common distance (say 20-30yds), and when your shots start dropping, that’s your pressure to stop at, that’s your usable shot count.
My Prod shoots 1/4″ groups for 3 mags from a full 3k. There may be a 60psi spread- I don’t actually know- but for 3 mags it puts them in 1/4″. Simple, accurate, reliable gun. You don’t have to overcomplicate it.
PST,
I am with you! Why so high?! Why fill to three hundred bar? What happened to only filling to less than one thousand PSI?
I will wait until I replace my chronograph before I shoot the P-Rod. I will then fill it and start shooting and see where the peak velocity is. That is what I did with my old Talon SS. That is why I only filled it to nineteen hundred PSI. Why fill it to more?
B.B.,
I’m not surprised by the results (just like RR and others of your Readership) you reported in this blog.
Tom i hope you are successful in driving at least a wooden stake into the increase the pressure Vampires of the PCP manufacturers! I have been trying to get their attention for years.
It looks like Weihrauch has at least limited their Maximum fill pressure on the new HW 100X to 3,625 PSI (250 bar) indicating an understanding of the Gas Laws.
A Silver stake would be better if we believe in that Hollywood stuff.
Psalm 109 is more in line to my way of thinking.
shootski
One thing FM likes much about the Maximus Family is – 2000 PSI is all you need. OK, so can’t get 50 shots on one fill. Doesn’t matter; FM does not like being a shot-glutton. Now if we are talking about a full-auto PCP, then sure give us 3000 PSI+ air tanks so we can put at least 50 projectiles thru the barrel.
Better yet, tether it to a scuba tank and haul the tank around on your back. How many shots you get now?
And you thought a hand pump was exercise! ;o)
Hey, if you think that’s cool, you could pretend you are Baze Malbus from Rogue One! https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Baze_Malbus
Roamin Greco,
Get an SCBA Rig (Carbon Fiber) they are much lighter than even an aluminum SCUBA tank.
IMO i have a better hat than Malbus: https://geissele.com/super-sub-zero-beanie-black-2.html
and i can wear one of my Flight Suits and Flight Boots… but i need to get myself a CAPE ;^)
shootski
It seems to me that too many are quick to blame the manufacturers and marketers for their moving to higher velocities and shot counts when in fact it is us.
When I say us, I am referring to the collective “us”, the great mass of airgun users,,,,, and buyers. Can one really fault a company for giving us what their sales numbers tell them we want.
We,, the collective “we”,, have decided, just like the powder burners, that power sells. The marketers certainly don’t do anything to change our minds, tho. Not that they could.
It is really in our best interest to make an effort to educate ourselves and others, just as is being done in this discussion. There is a place for higher power, but that should be the niche, not the norm.
In the end, we tend to vote with our money, so just like in politics,, an educated public is good for the country and sport.
Ed
P.S. That is marketeers, not marketers. They are looking for the “fast buck” also and are part of the “enforcement arm” of the manufacturers. The other part is of course the budgeteers, otherwise known as the “bean counters” or accountants.
As Pogo said…
Yep.
Unfortunately, Ed does have a point. The folks who dream of going to one of the quickly multiplying shooting competitions are buying these overpriced, over pressured airguns so they can possibly stand a chance against the folks who do this for a living. Really? let’s see. Three thousand dollars for the airgun. Three thousand dollars for the scope. Untold thousands for the custom bench mounts, bipods, whathaveyou. How much for the plane tickets to get there? I do not know. I do not fly. How much are the entry fees? I have no idea. Hotel/motel fees. Meal fees. Yadayadayada. You folks want to spend this kind of money to stand a chance to compete against these folks who do this for a living? Not me. I will also let you in on a little secret. More often than not, quite a few of them get their overpriced airguns for free. Hey, what great advertising.
You want to somehow pry the bucks out of my grasp? Build me an air rifle that needs less than one thousand PSI. I will somehow buy it.
I will admit that a couple of my air rifles do indeed fill to over three thousand PSI. I also just bought a Discovery and a Maximus recently. There is a very good chance I will be buying a 3622 and a 3677 whenever Gamo brings it out. All of these air rifles operate at or below two thousand PSI.
Sounds like we may need a Regulated Air Recovery Scoring system (RARS) for manufacturers to post in the specifications information, on the box an air gun comes in as well as the user’s instruction manual.
This pistol was obviously not designed for rapid fire use, intentional or not. Whereas the Western Sidewinder for example was. It has an oversized regulated air plenum to accommodate a full-auto shooting option.
You cant have it all in a pistol. The Sidewinder is a bullpup design. A successful compromise between a pistol and rifle, for all the shooting performance you could want. The best of both worlds in my opinion. I am growing fond of carbine type airguns, for general purpose shooting anyway.
I was hooked the first time I held the AR6 Carbine and now have three variations of the M1 Carbine air riifle. Just right for my age.
Speaking of my age, if you remember I was going to do my best to isolate the cause of Tinnitus, for me anyway.
Best I can make out caffeine in coffee and soft drinks, and ?, highly exaggerates the existing ringing you always have in the background of your mind.
Be it from hearing damage or a long life. The ringing you may hear when you are in a totally silent situation that eventually just fades away when you don’t concentrate on it and go about your day.
I stopped drinking regular coffee and my Dr. Pepper for a few weeks and it stopped the loud ringing.
Other items may have the same effect, plus or minus, I am not aware of any.
To verify I drank a full glass of my favorite soda. In a while I had extremely loud Tinnitus for three days.
Now I do have hearing damage from working around jet engines and airport equipment for over 40 years so my background ringing noise may be louder than most people, but I have acquired the ability to virtually block it out in my mind, until I concentrate on it that is … Like now 🙁 But it is nothing like full blown Tinnitus.
Hope it turns out to be a Christmas gift from me to you. Drop a line if it works for you.
Decaf is not totally caffeine free, so I hear, I don’t drink it all day like some people.
So, my conclusion, if you don’t have any minor background ringing noise in your head you probably won’t have any Tinnitus. Enjoy your coffee!
B.B. Pelletier,
I hope you will forgive me for breaking in with an off topic question but I have honestly tried every other way I know how to contact you. The Pyramid Air auto assistant suggested asking you a question through one of your recent blog posts so here I am.
Briefly:
I have an airgun you have written about extensively in the past, the FWB-124 Sport(SN 40K). Cosmetically it is like new but it is not performing well. After reading all of your articles on the 124 it seems that it almost certainly needs a new piston seal. I would like your recommendation for:
1. Best place to have a FWB-124 serviced.
2. Best scope and mount for backyard plinking and pest control.
3. Best pellet for backyard plinking and pest control.
Thank you in advance for your help in getting this wonderful gun back in shape!
Mike
Welcome, Mike. Off topic comments are always welcome. Hope you stick around. It’s a nice bunch of friendly folks here. I’m interested in the answer to your question, too. I have had an FWB 124 for a while that needs a new seal. I was hoping to do it myself, but other priorities in life get ahead of building the spring compressor.
RG,
There does happen to be a spring compressor living here. You do need to build your own, but I do happen to have one.
I figure it’s a right of passage for me to build one. I have several old gals, like the FWB 124, waiting patiently for me to get a round tuit.
https://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/page/page/251483.htm
Parts.
Thx. Bookmarked.
Mike,
Best place to have an FWB 124 serviced? Golly, I’m not sure. Will Pyramyd AIR do it? You might ask them.
Best scope and mount. Bug Buster 3-12 for the scope. For the mount? Again not sure. The 124 has cross grooves for scope stops and they aren’t that popular anymore. Readers?
Best pellet? Start with a JSB 10.34 grain dome but don’t overlook the 8.44-grain dome. Pellets are really barrel-specific and can be something you need to test A LOT!
Hope this helps,
BB
Mike,
You are EXACTLY the kind of person we want reading this blog! Please do hang around with us.
BB
Mike,
I have never owned a FWB-124 myself, but if BB cannot be of help to you, I am certain there are others here who may be able to help you to find a decent place to have it serviced.
As for a scope, I do not know what BB may recommend, but I myself have become quite partial to the UTG BugBusters. With a very close focus distance, they are superb for up close and powerful enough for sproingers. They also can easily deal with the recoil such produce and come with a lifetime warranty (which I have never had to use). As for the mounts, I am afraid I can be of no assistance as most of my sproingers do not accept scopes. I would recommend one with some type of “stop pin” to prevent your scope from sliding off of your sproinger. I have had that happen in the past.
If my rememberer is working properly, the FWB-124 has the rounded slots on top of the tube for the purpose of “stop scope creep”. There are mounts designed for such, but I cannot think of where you might get them. This is likely another “BB or someone else” recommendation.
As to what pellet to use, many recommend wadcutters for close in work as the flat end transfers energy better. I personally use the pellet that provides me with the best accuracy in that particular airgun. I have some that prefer pellets I would not use in any other airgun. Your FWB-124 will tell you which pellet “it” prefers. I would recommend starting with the JSB Exact and take it from there. Sadly, your pellet collection will likely grow.
Mike
Welcome to this blog that has a mentor and readers who aim to help.
I don’t have a 124 or a FWB 124 Sport. But I do have the FWB Sport which has settled down to be one of the smoothest and most accurate of my springers. The only help I can offer is pellet choice. Mine is not pellet picky but it loves the JSB 8.44 pellets. It is capable of attaining near 1 MOA at 20 yards with 10 shot groups.
Deck
Well, thank you RoaminGreco, B.B. Pelletier, RidgeRunner, and DeckSniper for your responses- I really appreciate it and am grateful that no one felt the need to attack for breaking your train of thought on the current blog topic. So this is what I have gleaned from your feedback:
1. Repair of FWB-124 Sport: not sure where is “best” but I have some leads. When I finally have it repaired I will share my experience with everyone.
2. Scope & Mount: Bug Buster seems to be the way to go. I will search for a mount that is compatible with the grooves if there is one currently available. I will give feedback on this when I can.
3. Pellet- will most likely start with JSB 8.44 dome since it was recommended x 2.
As far as the very nice invitation by RoaminGreco to “stick around” to the blog I am not sure you want such an inexperienced person “contributing” as I almost certainly would be taking much more than giving since I am a complete novice.
A little background: my wife and I recently retired and moved to the coast of Maine. Love to fish, love to boat. I have never owned a pellet gun but machining is a hobby of mine and when I saw the FWB-124 at an auction I admired the workmanship and had to have it($50). That was ten years ago and have only rarely used it. Now, back to Maine. Love it here, wildlife pretty amazing but have a problem with incredibly cute little red squirrels; they are evil, arrogant, and destructive little creatures! I trapped one in a Hav-a-Hart trap and transported him far, far away. Unfortunately his buddies were witnesses to this event and will not go near the trap. Actually, I take that back, they will sit on top of the trap to mock me while they eat. Well, since they have been doing serious damage around our house and shed I decided to get the 124 out. I shot one but it was an awful scene since it was a poor shot from a gun that has poor performance. Well, I felt like you-know-what and decided that if I was going to take this approach I was going to get the gun and my aim in the best condition possible hence the quest to tune-up the 124 and add a scope.
Thanks again for your input. Will keep you posted.
FWB-124 Sport(aka “Mike”)
Never, ever be afraid to put in your “two cents worth” around here. This bunch will do their best to give you the info you need and a few of us other folk just might learn a thing or two along the way.
I resemble that remark!
I was inexperienced 2 years ago. Heck, I still am compared to some of the regulars here.
These rings seem to be appropriate, however, I would call PA to be sure: https://www.pyramydair.com/product/sportsmatch-1-rings-medium-11mm-dovetail-fits-fwb-sport-webley-patriot?a=5263
You have to match the rings to the rail. Some FWBs may have a 13mm rail. Others may have 11mm rail. Then the rings have to match the scope tube diameter (1″, 30mm, etc.). I’m assuming you have the Vintage FWB 124 (what a deal for $50, by the way!), so the top of the dovetail may not have a hole for a scope stop pin (mine doesn’t). If it does, great, but if it doesn’t it probably has 3 or 4 scallops or grooves machined into the top of the spring cylinder perpendicular to the dovetail grooves. The cross pin in the scope mount should fit in the cross grooves. This keeps the recoil from moving the scope bases and rings backward as you shoot. The alternative would be a one-piece base with more clamping force.
I plan on using a vintage FWB rear peep sight on mine.
This may be taken for granted by experienced air gunners, but it was the first bit of information I learned here to improve the accuracy of my first springer, a QB-25. No change that to hit anything I aimed at and store it away for many years because it didn’t.
Lets make that my first break barrel pellet shooting springer. I have a BB shooting Daisy Spitten Image Model 1894 lever action Winchester. For most of my life it was broken and it eventually led me to this outstanding place.
“Make sure the stock mounting screws are tight”. Mine were very loose.
Don’t overdo it. I truly believe airgun manufacturers, and probably others, intentionally do not tighten lots of screws to avoid stripping them out. Good business practice, bad for the consumer.
All screws and bolts have a recommended torque but in the real world it comes down to common sense. At least use the tool appropriate for the job. Match the screwdriver tip to the screw drive size.
It will at least save you from slapping your forehead when you find out later on your own.
Bob M
Thanks again to everyone!
Seems like a great group here!
I tried to upload seven images of the 124 scope rail and its measurements but received a big red notice that only one photo is allowed. I have no idea how to delete the others and no idea which one will be chosen for the actual post. I can’t wait to see what happens. Hopefully I will not crash the site. Here goes!
You need to reduce the resolution on your camera. Then you can only attach one photo at a time, but you can reply to your post to upload another picture.
None!
Well, I just tried to add the one that is most important. The others just show a Starrett digital caliper measuring the top of groove at 11.82mm(.465”) and the base of the groove measuring 10.80mm(.425”). Other images just had the stampings on the barrel. I am not sure where the rail measurement is taken. If it is at the narrowest part of the groove then I am closest to an 11mm rail. I will try to send a couple more photos to show where I took the measurements since I don’t think I have described that very well.
Looks just like mine. No scope stop pin hole.
Top of the rail:
Bottom of the rail:
Well, this has forced me to look at the scope mounting area a little more closely. I think the red arrow(A) points to the grooves where a scope cross pin would lie but does anyone know what the thin transverse slots indicated by the blue arrow(B) and the “V” marks medicated by the green arrow(C)?
Thanks!
By the way the stock mounting screws are tight-thanks for the tip Bob M
I think you are right about (A). I don’t know about (B) and (C), but I think (B) has something to do with the front edge of the Vintage FWB peep sight.
You have an 11mm rail. Close enough for government work.
I just read a horror story on another forum of the scope ring cross pin jumping out of its groove and wreacking havoc on the dovetail metal. You may want to invest in a bit of insurance…something like this to brace at least one of the rings…
https://ebay.us/m/sb8k4Z
Roamin Greco,
Grasshopper you are moving up nicely!
shootski
Found this pic on a search. Unless it is actually your rifle, it looks like the cross-pin cuts are factory made.
FWB-124 Sport,
Welcome! (Willkommen in my 1st language.)
If you don’t have an Owners Manual:
https://feinwerkbau.de/en/service/downloads/technical-information/manuals#luftgewehre
https://www.jgairguns.biz/downloads-c-2678/?page=6
An Internet Search can be of use to find more.
are two possibilities the one from the manufacturer is in German and English.
The Scope Stops are for different types that work with different mounts or rings. Most folks would have used non optical sights (Irons, Peep, Diopter pick your name) which could have used any of those perpendicular slots; but small airgun rated scopes are not ruled out.
shootski
PS: those V marks are INDEXING MARKS for consistent mounting of sight systems, indications of travel, as well for ensuring droop compensating mounts will give you the proper/consistent CANT (Depression-Elevation) on mounting or remounting. You would find the instructions with the specific mount.
Shootski,
First of all, thank you for the “Willkommen”!
I just noticed your post script on this message regarding the “V” notches. It seems as though the notches are factory made. I guess what is a bit confusing for me is that, as someone else pointed out, they are inconsistent in shape and spacing yet are still very nicely stamped or engraved and seem to follow a pattern. I suppose this may be a way of making each marking unique and a way of making it easier to keep track of which mark you have used when remounting a device or trying to follow whether there has been movement of a device.
If anyone has a WFB-124 Sport I would be interested to know if they have similar marks.
Thanks everyone!
124,
There are a great many reports on the FWB 124 on this blog. Type FWB 124 into the “search” bar at the top right of this page any you will find them. The longest one is here:
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2011/02/a-shrine-built-for-a-feinwerkbau-124-part-15/
BB
Thank you BB. This is a great source of information on the FWB-124. I believe I have read them all; it appears as though the 124 occupies a warm spot in your heart. I don’t recall any information on the “V” notches though.
I took a careful look and mine and wouldn’t you know…there they are. I will upload a couple of pics. My serial number is below yours. And mine was imported by Beeman.
Here’s the serial number.
Here’s the Beeman Stamp
I don’t know about you, but I now feel comfortable saying that the grooves, the thin slots, and the “V” marks are all factory made, like Shootski said a while back. It is interesting that on your gun the V’s are on the left side of the barrel and mine are on the right side ♂️.
I don’t want to beat a dead horse horse here so I think I will send an email off to FWB and ask them about the marks. I’ll let you know what I find out.
I packaged the 124 for mailing to AirVenturi today to have it repaired/tuned-up. I will mail it tomorrow.
Will order recommend scope, mount, and pellets today from Pyramyd Air today.
Then…watch out red squirrels!
Thanks again everyone for your help-I learned a lot!
Here’s what a scope stop pin hole looks like for your reference, from my Beeman R7 (Weihrauch HW30S). I was showing the folks here the stop pin I had installed in the bottom of a peep sight that kept sliding back on me.
When you get this rifle sorted out, those red squirrels better watch out!
Those cuts appear to be witness slots for the point to stop cutting into the tube. They appear at the bottom of the cross pin grooves as well. And those groves don’t appear to be factory made.
The ‘V’ marks appear to be somewhat irregular suggesting they were not made by the manufacturer. Reference marks for various optics to maintain proper eye relief?
You may have an unusual rifle on your hands? I don’t know much about this airgun myself.
Dovetail measurements do not appear to be set in stone. I have encountered some that are way off a standard cut. Especially for the depth of the cut. Then there are optics and possibly rings but mounts in general that do not fit on curved tubes. Sounds stupid considering dovetails seem to be intended for round tubes. Some China made enclosed dot sights come to mind.
Bob M,
Hey Shipmate…
actually they are WITNESS Marks/Cross Slots for various recoil stops and ALL are from the factory.
shootski
Shootski,
Sorry, I just noticed this post. So Shootski you think the “V” marks that appear to be hand made are also from the factory?
Newbie question, what is a “recoil stop”?
Does anyone else have a 124 Sport that has these marks?
That’s enough for me for today, good night all, and thanks!
Mike
FWB-124 Sport,
Since someone hasn’t answered this question of yours: Newbie question, what is a “recoil stop”?
On spring piston (Gas or Other springs) powerplants the Mass of metal that moves forward causes an equal and opposite reaction just like all other guns when they fire. BUT there are two major differences. The projectile isn’t what causes the rearward recoil but rather that compression piston being driven by the spring. Okay so far then the next BUT happens. That piston SLAMS into the end of travel hopefully into some highly compressed air but sometimes the metal wall at the front of the compression cylinder and the bounces BACK creating the signature bidirectional recoil that quickly kills scopes not rated for spring piston airguns and making any sight system not properly secured to walk in the mount to receiver.
The Stop Pin, Clamping Action, and Mounts/Rings and the Cross Slots on the receiver are the usual method to keep that from occuring. Most of the time it works; when it doesn’t it gets UGLY.
Weaver or PICATINNY bases are a much better mechanical method of keeping that walking from happening.
Hope the above is clear enough.
If not just ask more questions.
shootski
Shootski, thank you for taking the time to very clearly explain the “recoil stop” and why it is necessary. I had no idea there was such a problem with recoil in spring piston airguns. I would not have guessed that I would be thinking about all three laws of Newtonian physics when I asked on this blog about where to have my 124 Sport serviced! Life can be fun that way : ).
Thanks again for your help, it is much appreciated.
FWB-124 Sport
I found this graph online that was very helpful for me to picture the forces involved in spring piston airguns and to predict which side of the scope mount the recoil stop should be placed : ). I am truly a newbie. Thanks again.
Shootski, I will never doubt you again!
This nicely written and concise note is from FWB:
Dear Mike,
Thank you very much for your message and for your interest in our FWB 124 model.
We are happy to clarify the purpose of the markings you indicated:
A (red arrow): These grooves serve as locking positions for scope mounts. They are designed to prevent the mount from shifting under recoil by allowing a stop pin to engage securely.
B (blue arrow): The thin vertical slots are reference marks for positioning aperture sights or other sighting accessories. They assist in repeatable alignment during installation.
C (green arrow – “V” notches): These V-shaped notches are optical alignment marks. They were added to help ensure correct orientation of the sight line and accessories. They do not provide any mechanical locking function.
We hope this information is helpful to you and the members of your blog. Should you have any further questions about our products, please feel free to contact us at any time.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen | Kind regards
Emanuel Notarnicola
With regard to the “V” notches, I am not exactly sure what, “to help ensure correct orientation of the sight line…” means but for the moment I don’t think I need to know. As you said Shootski, are ALL marks are factory made.
Mystery solved, dead horse thoroughly flogged : )
Mike
FWB-124 Sport,
“Shootski, I will never doubt you again!”
Don’t put that on me Mike! Never or Always are dangerous words.
As a Flight Instructor i explained to my new Student Naval Aviators that if they detected or thought that i was in error or creating a dangerous condition that i demanded that they SPEAK UP promptly. Especially since they were in the front seat of a Tandem Cockpit and would likely arrive at the accident first. I also told them that sometimes it might be a test of their knowledge but it might be me screwing up just as easily.
I then pulled out my pencil and showed them the eraser on the end which showed signs of use. I further explained that i would only be worried if the writing portion didn’t get used up (get to short to write with) before the eraser.
lastly: i learned early in my Beach/Open Water Lifeguarding (first & fourth career) to NEVER blow smoke.
shootski
Shootski, it sounds like you and my wife probably would have a lot to talk about. She was a civilian pilot, flight instructor, and A&P mechanic for many years. She had her own little aircraft repair and maintenance business. When she was young she talked a retired fighter pilot out of retirement to train her to fly. They became like father and daughter over the years. We used to attend the Oshkosh event every year. I can recall walking around with those guys looking at airplanes and trying to figure out if I was looking at a Waco or a Stearman while they were talking about at which serial number they changed the engine from one type to another! Many great times with him and many wonderful stories from his time in the military. NNTR
An off topic to the current off topic.
A point I forgot to mention in my comment above about Tinnitus. There seems to be a symbiotic relationship between caffeine and dehydration, keeping in mind that caffeine contributes to it. A double whammy for starting Tinnitus.
I woke from a nap this afternoon with my mouth so dry I could not speak and a loud ringing in my head. Not Tinnitus but that background head noise. It faded away quickly.
Why? It was 80 degrees here with 10% humidity and I’m living in a tin box, AKA a mobile home. On top of that I believe my body is not retaining water very well these days. So much so, I now have crepey skin all over the place.
It takes a while to rehydrate, days to weeks, especially if it’s chronic. So, stay hydrated to help avoid or eliminate Tinnitus. Protect your hearing when shooting loud guns and try to avoid the problem in the first place. Nuff said.
Bob M,
Your body is only able to effectively use about a cup of water per hour. I usually keep a water pitcher on the nightstand mostly for that first drink of H²O on waking up. Then i carry a big insulated water bottle with me all day long.
If you are dehydrated for any reason Pedialyte is one of the best and cheapest ways to do it quicktime.
A 2% loss of water is enough to start some serious messing with the body’s systems.
shootski
Cautionary tale from FM, to whom this may be of benefit. At this year’s physical, his doc commented “kidney numbers are off – creatinine and GFR” – GFR has to do with how fast your kidneys filter stuff going thru them. FM confesses he’s never been that good at “hydrating,” something Mrs. FM does get on his case about and rightly so. Doc did not think there was anything seriously wrong except for inadequate fluid intake – the creatinine numbers could be explained by the fact FM started taking creatine earlier in the year at his cardio doc’s suggestion.
MRI and ultrasound tests found nothing of concern with the kidneys. So FM dutifully set about increasing his fluid intake to at least 64 oz. worth daily, mostly plain H2O. After several months of following the recommendation to the letter, things are back to normal. Bonus: FM had been experiencing intermittent – though slight – swelling of the ankles for years. That is no longer the case.
You all take care of your health so you can enjoy life to the fullest and keep on shootin’ as long as possible.
Y’mean there are no airguns in heaven?
Seriously, I find it interesting that increasing your fluid intake reduced the swelling (which is fluid) in your ankles.
Does coffee count as fluid?
Don’t fully understand the physiology behind it but speculate more fluid flowing = better drainage through our plumbing system. As for coffee, it does count towards your daily liquid intake but as FM’s doc cautioned, “don’t overdo the caffeine because it is also a diuretic.”
Are there airguns in heaven? Dunno – hope at least there is archery there. 🙂
FawltyManuel,
I’m no doctor of medicine but this guy is: https://www.daneverson.com.au/blog/stop-feet-swelling-in-hot-weather
Australian outfit so a long trip for treatment ;^)
shootski
There it is: “drinking more water can actually help prevent swelling by keeping your body hydrated and helping it flush out excess salt.”
Thanks, shootski.
Read the article shootski – it was good; short, sweet, to the point. Seems FM somehow is already doing many of the right things as suggested in the article. Thanks for pointing that out.
All, thanks again for your input. Since, like Bob M, I found other photos of 124s with nicely machined, spaced, and blued grooves A and slots B I believe they are very likely to be created at the factory. I believe that the irregular “V” marks, C, are witness marks not made by the factory. I think that despite the gun being in excellent cosmetic shape someone used it a lot since the witness marks are nicely, albeit manually placed. This indicates to me that someone used this gun a lot but took good care of it. Shootski, I also found a manual but unfortunately there is no mention of any of the marks but it did confirm that I have an 11mm dovetail groove which will help when purchasing a scope.
Roamin Greco, thank you for the lead on the eBay device for anchoring the scope. In an effort to keep things simple, I think I might try this type of scope mount first:
Looks good, but I would not use the vertical stop pin that it comes with. See blue arrow.
Roamin Greco,
Just an FYI for anyone considering a one piece mount for a Bug Buster. According to the manufacturer, the circled one piece mount has rings that are not properly spaced for the Bug Buster so it will not fit. However, the offset mount below it does fit the spacing on a BugBuster scope.
PS, BB publishes and new Blog every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.
This photo that I found online looks like the peep sight could be engaged in one of the thin slots like shootski suggested:
B.B. and Readership,
So one of our new active readers FWB-124 Sport wrote this: “So Shootski you think the “V” marks that appear to be hand made are also from the factory?”
This is no way intended to pick on anyone especially not our new active reader. I’m not certain about FWB-124 Sport but most most Americans and many other folks seem to believe that hand made is at best amateurish or at worst inferior to something designed and produced on CAD/CAM.
CNC (Computer Numerical Control) are automated manufacturing tools controlled by pre-programmed computer software, allowing them to perform precise tasks like cutting, drilling, and shaping materials (metal, wood, plastic) with high accuracy and minimal human intervention. CAD/CAM (Computer-Aided Design/Computer-Aided Manufacturing) integrates software for designing products (CAD) and generating instructions for automated manufacturing (CAM), streamlining processes from digital models to physical parts, enhancing precision, reducing errors, and enabling complex creation in industries like automotive, dental, and aerospace, using tools like CNC machines, 3D printers, and lasers to turn 3D designs into real products.
The issue i ask you all to consider is the term hand made. In Germany they use Hand Gemacht which can be translated as Handcrafted: It emphasizes skill, personal touch, and cultural value over mass production. I visited any number of European companies during my overseas tours of duty but the one that stands out the most was visiting the Anschutz factory and getting to see their apprentices using metal files on various pieces of scrap metal. I asked the Master why so much emphasis on this hand tool and his response was that it it was the quickest way to get the new apprentice to understand by touch and feel all the qualities and nature of the various metals they would be using on the machines. He also said that the Best of the Best would go on to work on the Custom Shop hand fitted pieces. We moved on to their Custom Workshop and the Firearms they were producing were a very clear cut above the already fabulous products they were producing on the production floor.
Hand Made is just like everything else in my opinion if it is done without basic refined skills and extreme attention to detail along with a measure of heart it just won’t cut it.
What do you all think?
shootski
shootski,
I’ll think about it. Might be a blog.
BB
Shootski, first of all, I do not any any way feel “picked on” : ). If I interpret your comments correctly, I agree with you: hand made does not mean poorly made. Some processes do not lend themselves to automation and are better done by hand. Just some random comments/anecdotes that might illustrate some of the comments that you made in your post:
Leica Cameras- Many of you are aware of the iconic German Leica film camera. For those of you that are not, it is a very beautifully machined piece of equipment bordering on art. I belong to an organization called the Leica Historical Society that is dedicated to the worship of these pieces of machining art. In a newsletter many years ago there was an article about a very skilled apprentice in the Leitz microscope factory named Oskar Barnak. This was before they manufactured cameras and Leitz Microscopes became Leica(a contraction of Leitz + Camera). Mr Barnak enjoyed photography but had asthma and was unable to carry the large, heavy cameras that were typical of the time. So Oskar Barnak went into the microscope factory and BY HAND created a miniature camera using movie(cine) film to make the very first 35 mm camera. He was able to do this partly because his apprenticeship at Leitz Microscopes included a period where everything was done by hand. In fact, I have read that the apprenticeship at Leica once involved making every piece of a Leica camera by hand. The end result was a hand made Leica camera for the apprentice.
Second Anecdote: My father owned a bicycle shop. As a young man I was the mechanic. I have always enjoyed “making things”. Even though my vocation was not machining I enjoy it very much as a hobby and continued it throughout my life. Another hobby of mine is fishing. Recently I needed a part for one of my fishing creations so I made it “by hand”, that is, a manual lathe and milling machine, no CNC involved : ). I made it out of titanium because of its resistance to corrosion, hardness and lightweight(see photo). It was a “one off” and had to be made by hand.
I have a friend that is a professional machinist. As a young man he quit high school, bought himself a lathe and started to make parts for local manufactures in his parent’s basement. He now owns his own business and makes parts for Mercedes and Volvo. I showed him my part. He said, “Holy *&$# Mike, you made this?! You’re hired”. He went on to say that he is absolutely unable to find young people that can work with their hands… “they don’t take apart things and fix them like we used to do because everything is disposable… they all want to do it on the computer.”
Shootski, I believe I have an appreciation of “hand made” items but like all of us we are a product of our past experiences. Today’s youth really have minimal experience with making things by hand and I think therefore are less likely to appreciate something crafted by hand. In my view it is unfortunate but not a fault, just the end result of their environment.
Anyway, I feel like I am beginning to ramble so will sign off.
Shootski, thank you for your thought provoking post.
Mike
I will attempt to post a photo of the “hand made” titanium piece that I mentioned above: )
Another “hand made” piece for this fishing project. This is made of 6061 T6 “aircraft”aluminum and Grade 5 titanium. Shootski, you talked about the apprentices working manually to get the feel for a metal. I completely understand this since aluminum and titanium have drastically different machining characteristics. If you try to machine a piece of titanium like a piece of aluminum you will soon, “get to start over” : )
I remember my mother once saying while watching my young son actively playing, “their play is there work”. I think that continues in retirement. Getting a little bit philosophical here so time to sign off : ).
THAT is a work of beauty! Kudos!
FWB-124 Sport,
Worth a BZ Mike!
shootski
Shootski. I just spent the last twenty minutes trying to discover what the heck “BZ” means. Thanks : )
Thanks Roamin Greco. I am embarrassed to reveal how long those parts took me to make. As I am sure you are aware, a CNC machine, once programmed, would spit one perfect part out every few minutes. Thank goodness we humans are still required to program the machines : ).
I had a good result and a fast turnaround on a Beeman Kodiak rifle repair from David Slade at Airgunwerks. He lists FWB as a make he works on.