Peep sights are great!
This report covers:
- History
- Why?
- What to do
- Discussion and a test
- Problem
- Peeps help aging eyes
- Ghost ring sight
- Where peeps don’t work so well
- Summary
Today we take a look at peep sights. We will find out how they work, what they are good for and when not to use them. We will also touch on that most popular peep—the ghost ring. If there is more that you need to know please mention it in the comments.
History
The last time I wrote about peep sights I said I wasn’t sure when they were first used. That’s still the case, but today I back my first use date to sometime in the 1600s.
I downloaded this image from a discussion forum and the writer said it was supposed to have been made around 1670.
There is some discussion online that the Turks may have invented the peep sight in the 1500s. I can’t find any proof for that, so the 1670 date is the one I will go with until I find something earlier.
Why?
Shooters today who have never used peep sights often ask why people like them. But once a shooter has learned to use them they tend to prefer them over all other non-optical sights. They are so easy to use, once the shooter has learned what to do, that militaries around the world use them.
What to do
I have heard complaints about how difficult peep sights are to use and the problem always boils down to the shooter over-thinking it! Like riding a bicycle, using peep sights is natural and easy as long as you don’t try to think about what you’re doing. Yes some learning is required but why do so many military organizations around the world use them? Because they are faster to learn and less problem to use than conventional notch-and-post open sights.
To use a peep sight you look just through the peephole at the target and the front sight. Nothing needs to be done with the peephole except to look through it. Your eye automatically centers the target and tip of the front sight because the center of the peephole is where the brightest light is. And that fact leads me to another discussion.
Discussion and a test
Look through the peephole. That’s 75 percent of it, right there. You can make a peep sight by poking a hole in a business card with a ballpoint pen. Now look through the hole you just made. That’s most of how to use a peep sight!
“How large a hole should I make?” That’s over-thinking it! The size of the hole is not that important. Yes, for target shooters and hunters shooting 500 yards the hole needs to be small, but look at the hole the Brits put on their SMLE No. 4 battle rifle in WWII.
The battle sight peep hole on this SMLE No. 4 is half the size of the bolt! The size of the hole doesn’t matter, and a large hole like this makes target acquisition very fast.
Recently I showed you some fantastic 10-meter groups with the Thompson submachine BB gun. The peep sight on that gun is also large but it works well, as you saw in that report!
The sight on a Thompson submachine gun and also on the Umarex BB gun version has both a notch rear sight and a peep.
Problem
Here is where peep sights loose a lot of people. To use them effectively you have to keep BOTH eyes open! You should do that with open sights, too, but they will let you get away with squinting your non-sighting eye. Peeps won’t.
Take that business card you just poked a hole in and hold it up close to your sighting eye. With both eyes open the hole looks bright and round. Now, close your non-sighting eye. The peep closes up! That’s the biggest problem with using peeps. Learn to keep your eyes open and things will work for you.
The rest of using a peep is to sight it in so the pellet goes where you want — no different than any other type of sight. I’ve shown you the typical sight picture and there are many variations, so set the sight up the way that seems best to you.
The Buffington rear sight was used from 1884 until around 1935. It combines both a notch and a couple peep holes. It was mounted ahead of the rifles’ action and was thus too far from the sighting eye for rapid use.
The Springfield 1903A3 was the last and best iteration of that fine rifle. Though the original 1903 Springfield had a Buffington sight, it was too hard to use in battle because it was too far forward, so on the O3A3 an adjustable peep was positioned back close to the eye, and the open sights were abandoned altogether.
Peeps help aging eyes
One thing peep sights do well is help older eyes. Because of how they work the eye only needs to concentrate on two things—the target and the front sight. They enhance the depth of field which makes it easier to focus on the front sight and target.
Ghost ring sight
A very large rear peep-type aperture sight is called a ghost ring sight today. When you read about them you will see most of what has been discussed in this report. The “ghost” name is because the ring disappears when used correctly, but the eye still centers the target within the ring.
Where peeps don’t work so well
When the light isn’t good, like in a dark forest, a peep sight might not work that well. It takes light to see things through that hole. Now obviously the larger the hole the more light passes through, so that SMLE peep shown above pretty much worked everywhere.
Also with moving targets it’s difficult to frame the target in the hole. So moving targets that are difficult for scopes are also very difficult for peeps.
Summary
There is your quick tutorial on peep sights. They are easier to use than conventional open sights. They are better for older eyes. They are quicker to use, too. Once you know how to use them peep sights are a wonderful way to go!
BB,
That is a great tutorial and explained peep sights very well.
I only wish I had it 30 years ago so I could have shown it to my co-worker.
He was ex-Army, and he told me how he hated peep sights because they were so hard to use.
So, I asked him how he tried to use them.
Yes, you guessed it!
He moved his eye farther back from the peep, and tried to line up the peep, the front sight, and the target.
I told him the same stuff you said here, but he wasn’t buying it.
Perhaps if he had seen it in print from a shooting guru like yourself, he’d have bought it. 😉
Blessings to you,
dave
B.B.
Good report!
My only problem with peep sights is figuring out hold over………
-Yogi
Yogi,
Why hold over or use Kentucky windage?
When you can use something like this:
https://www.creedmoorsports.com/centra-long-range-sight-weaver-mount
and dial it in just like on a scope.
shootski
It would not fit on my pistol, that is why.
Cool idea though…
-Y
Yogi,
Your humor is showing.
Yogi,
https://mrcompletely.blogspot.com/2006/06/taco-grip.html
shootski
“Without good trigger control, your stance and grip don’t make too much difference……”
Enough said,
-Y
I might be able to find 540 reasons….;o)
But I love perusing that website….
That’s where I learned that Meisterkugeln can be had in different head sizes (4.49 and 4.5mm)
Roamin Greco,
Santa may have one of these for me: https://www.creedmoorsports.com/creedmoorsports-inverted-know-your-limits-KYL-target looks like it is NIS now :^l
A box that was really heavy arrived a few days ago ;^)
Should hold up for years if i jut use it for airguns…
shootski
Well someone was a good boy!
Roamin Greco,
I hope i was good enough to have gotten a bunch of this: https://www.creedmoorsports.com/lapua-super-long-range-22lr-ammunition-l420167
And this:
https://www.creedmoorsports.com/lapua-point-22-lr-polar-biathlon-ammo
shootski
Yogi,
Yeah, holdover is hard with a peep.
BB
BB,
Holdover is easy with the that Lee Enfield No4 though, just flip from the 0-300 yard battle aperture shown to the micrometer-adjustable ladder peep sight and you can dial in ranges from 100-1300 yards.
Strange that the Germans didn’t adopt peep sights until the G3/HK91 in the 1950s. Their WWII stuff, Kar98k, MG42, StG44, etc., all used v-notch sights (Kimme und Korn).
B.B.,
Yup!
In PROBLEM above you covered the topic of shooting with both eyes open really well!
But then you went and left out the REST OF THE STORY!
You should of covered what that hunk of rectangular plastic with a hole in it at one end is for. You know that thing called an Eyeshield which doesn’t get used by most folks that don’t have a shooting coach, a well informed shooting buddy, or (i would have thought) The Godfather of Airguns® as an online guru.
The Eyeshield doesn’t protect you from ricochets.
shootski
shootski,
Once again you are overthinking it. Eye shields are nice in extreme marksmanship, such as the Olympics, but are not of much use when hunting. You could also mount a bubble level on your front sight. Hey, why not carry a tripod also? That could provide a nice, stable shooting rest.
All of these doodads take time to deal with, except maybe the eye shield. The problem with it is that it is a protrusion on the side of the rifle or shotgun which can be snagged on something. The idea is to use something quick and easy.
I made an eye shield for my AirForce Edge. It was made of a white rubber-like substance. It was great on the range, but not too practical in the woods. It blocked a good portion of my peripheral vision. Not good when you are hunting.
RidgeRunner,
Nope. My Beater-Loader carries all that stuff for me…
Sure it is designed for competitive type of shooting but it also works for training (or re-TRAINING old hands) shooting Aperture Sights (peep sights) with both eyes open.
Eyeshields also work to train optical/scope shooters to do the same.
What you missed was that the eye shields can be cut DOWN with scissors in small increments during training to eventually no longer be needed by most shooters. The official name for that is INCREMENTAL TRAINING.
The snagging problem can be solved using the type of eye shield that can be mounted on a pair of shooting glasses. Normal eyeshields are flexible enough to bend out of the way of the snags on their way to the shooting bench which most folks shoot from ;^)
shootski
I found for me that my dominant eye tends to shift from right to left and back when using a peep sight. The eye shield keeps that from happening but I also found that if I pull my ball cap down and to the left to just so that I can easily see the bill when I am shooting that my dominant eye stays on the right. This allows for faster shooting without messing with the eye shield.
I also use a clear aperture insert that makes it easier to see and hit squirrels and also easy to center on paper targets. You just need to pick your preferred ID from 2.8mm to 4.7mm. The apertures are also available with a black ring, yellow and smoke.
Though I did have to sand down the outer diameter to fit the HW front sight. I could not find any that were made for the HW only the standard target sights of 18mm and 22mm OD. The actual OD of the 18mm aperture is 16.98mm versus the maximum OD on HW of 16mm.
Mike
bmwsmiley,
Mike a big question:
How do you manage to keep the concentricity as you sand the front sight insert/element down to size? Or doesn’t that matter as much as i think it does?
shootski
PS: RR will probably accuse me of OVERTHINKING once again ;^)
I put some electrical tape to both sides to prevent scratches. Then pushed a small machine screw thru the aperture and tightened a nut to just snug and chucked the screw into a dremel running as slow as possible about 5000 rpm. I used 160 grit sand paper to remove material slowly, stopping periodically to measure the OD. When it was close about 0.005 inch big, then I put a radius on each side prior to sanding to the final OD. Is it exactly concentric? No, but it is close enough. I used a screw that just fit thru the aperture. Probably concentric to +/- 0.001 inches.
When I first started shooting air rifles seriously at 10 meters with the FWB300s, I initially was over-thinking it. It was a bit frustrating – I was supposed to be shooting hole-in-hole groups, what was wrong with the 300s?!? Hahaha… After I relaxed a bit, everything went smoothly.
The diopter sight on my FWB800 is so good that I can’t imagine shooting any other way. I also mounted a red dot sight once, and it was very precise as well. I was really surprised.
As B.B. mentioned in this great report, a peep sight absolutely needs light. That’s why I always keep a red dot sight in my FWB800 case when I travel with it.
The old wisdom is simple:
If you can see your target through the peep sight, you’ll hit it!
Tomek, you are quite right. The most important word is “through.”
People have to understand that you simply have to look THROUGH the peep hole. That’s it. The hole positions your head so that effectively, your own eye becomes the rear sight. It helps with consistent cheek weld, too! I like peep sights for the KISS principle.
RG,
There is hope for you yet.
Aww, thanks, RR!
Yes, KISS is the key 🙂
New readers who have little or no experience with peeps may want to know that peeps can help with some common types of astigmatism. Just point a pistol with one hand toward a target. Hold a common washer with the other hand in line with the shooting eye and front sight. Voila! The all important front sight gets in sharp focus when looking through the washer hole. This tip holds true even with long eye relief. But if you don’t see any benefit, you don’t have this type astigmatism.
Not much is said about this tip but I read about it years ago and have used it ever since. Plus it costs nothing to try if you own a pistol. It can help with rifles too!
Deck
I remember something similar that was like a sticker on shooting glasses.
I’m a big fan of peep sights, except when they bring the “floaters” in my eyes into sharp focus. It’s really amazing the depth of focus they accomplish.
Deck,
That’s one I never heard of. Thanks!
BB
I use peep sights quite often. They still amaze me with their accuracy potential. I do prefer to use the rubber eye cups that typically come with the precision peep sights. I believe the eyecups help with being able to see the target better and also are an aid in placement of the eye at a consistent distance from the sight.
Peeps are great! ‘Nuf said.
Weeell, maybe. They are my favorite sight to use. I have a couple of the Williams peeps that I sometimes use on sproingers, most especially the Weihrauchs. Sproingers will not often give you long range accuracy, so peeps work great on them.
Also, peeps are a lot faster to use than the old-fashioned notch sights and sometimes faster than scopes.
These old, tired eyes like peeps.
RidgeRunner of the Peeples Demakratik Republik of Virginia 🙁
Seems you answered one of FM’s questions: what peep sight will work on an HW’s dovetail? So a Williams should fit the bill, hopefully. Measured the distance between the dovetail slots or ridges on the HW30 and these are 13mm or about 1/2″. The other question is whether a peep sight will help when, as a result of a retinal detachment in the past, there has been some loss of depth perception.
At times have tried shooting the resident HW sproingers with both eyes open and seems accuracy was a little better when doing so. Tom’s reading glasses trick has also helped.
I like the reading glasses for focusing on the front sights also. I just wish they didn’t make the target so blurry in the distance.
Elmer,
They haven’t done that for me. I use +1.25 diopter glasses now but after my cataract surgery I used + 2.5. They worked at 10 meters for the 6 months I had to use them.
BB
I seem to still get more accurate results using the reading glasses. I guess it is better to have a good focus on the front sights than have a sharper image of the target. I will check the strength of the glasses that I use and use less strength if feasible. Thanks.
You must have the front sight in focus. The peep will help bring the target into focus, but that’s actually not as important, from what I have learned. Even if the target is fuzzy, if you can see the front sight, you can recreate the same sight picture with precision. Here though is the reason folks like scopes…the reticle and target are both in focus.
Look for Williams FoolProof AG or GR. I’m not sure of the difference except one may have more elevation adjustment, but it may bump against the left side of the stock. If you like to turn click-adjustable knobs, then get the AG-TK or the GR-TK.
The good thing about the Williams sights is that you can buy different size and style apertures. If P.A. doesn’t have them, try Midway. Or for the Ghost Ring effect for hunting, you can simply remove the aperture, too.
FM,
I have two of these.
https://shop.williamsgunsight.com/ecommerce/p/fpairgun-ag-014168
They work on the Weihrauchs.
P.S. I use the target knobs. I have not tried the others.
P.S.S. Do you want your TruGlo back? It works great with the Williams peep on an HW30.
RR,
A Williams peep would be great on the HW77k, but only on one with the old style stock. The new tutti frutti Minnelli stock has much too high a comb for iron sights.
The HW77k factory rear sight is useless anyway, even with the old style stock, as it is mounted on the dovetail, too close to the eye even when as far forward as it will go.
Weihrauch should bring back the old style stock and swap out the crummy rear sight for a nice peep.
Bob Ryan,
Apparently there were two major reasons.
The first was to make it harder to earn your Schützenschnur https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Armed_Forces_Badge_of_Marksmanship
Panzerfaust was fun. The Naval version looks good in Gold with the blue rope!
The other was that most of the shooting by Germans was hunting related and Jäger use(ed) kimme und Korn almost exclusively as i recall.
shootski
Shootski,
Very interesting. I had no idea there was a modern version of the Panzerfaust.
You can still get vintage Weihrauch peep sights on Ebay from some fellow in Bulgaria. I got some vintage Diana peeps from him.
RG,
I must have a look for him on Ebay. I’ve been on the lookout for a vintage peep sight for my Diana 52.
Almost forgot to tell you, some of the vintage Weihrauchs apparently had 13mm dovetail rails, so the vintage peeps were sized for 13mm. If your airgun has 11mm dovetails, you may need a different peep. I wish I knew more about this subject.
Bob,
Both of my Weihrauchs have the old-style stock. I pair the Williams sights with the TruGlo Front Globe. What?! RR is using a glowy thingy sight?! They work pretty well with the Williams peep at twenty-five yards or less. Am I hunting with glowy thingies? Only feral soda cans.
RR,
I don’t like fiber optic sights much either, but the TruGlo Front Globes look the business and I like that you can adjust the brightness by rotating the sunshade on them.
Unfortunately neither they nor Williams peep sights seem to be sold in Europe.
FM appreciates all advice and insights – no pun intended – offered, which is why this is his go-to airgun blog/forum.
https://shop.williamsgunsight.com/ecommerce/p/fpairgun-ag-014168
Thanks for that, enabler-friend. Returning the favor – Weihrauch website shows they still make the pump and manometer for the HW90. Unfortunately, no direct sales to customers. FM is certain you will find these stateside.
B.B.
I love peep sights more than any other type of sights (yes including scopes). But I learn something new everyday. I always keep both eyes open. I knew it was easier buy never thought about why. Guess I was keeping it simple. But yes I did what you said and made a peep sight (out of a post it note). I was shocked. You are correct in that as I closed one eye, it was much harder to use. I also learned years ago what Davemyster mentioned about moving my eyes/head back too far away from the peep. Thinking of that, I assume it’s not really possible to use peeps on a pistol? Funny a open notch sight needs to move away from the eye and an peep sight needs to come towards the eye.
Doc
Doc Holiday,
It isn’t the pistol that precludes using an Aperture Sight (peep) it is the shooter’s hold. You can use peeps on a stocked pistol and if you use the overhand TACO Hold you don’t even need the stock!
https://mrcompletely.blogspot.com/2006/06/taco-grip.html
shootski
On the Evanix AR6 pistol I keep an 1X prismatic sight. It works well either with the Taco hold or rested on something. Usually I pull back the stock with my left index finger against my right hand. The tiny dot doesn’t help speed shooting. Lighting the dot improves things.
Bill,
Wish i had known about Evanix back when i flew into Korea often.
Guess i should schedule a Springtime visit to https://www.dragonhilllodge.com
For a vacation ;^)
shootski
Shootski,
Once again you pull up old memories. When we flew into Osan or any other far east military base we always somehow managed to RON (Remain Over Night) in some nice hotel in town. Must have been to accommodate the short liberty period we had.
Once I had to explain, in my best diplomatic way, to a few young Koreans in the hotel lounge that it was not an American tradition to slow dance with another man and it would be extremely uncomfortable for me to do so.
And when we had an empty DC-9 in the SECO-C setup (SEat COndition – Cargo) The return flight often turned into a Sayonara Shopping Trip. Who could resist things like a new pair of the best brand name tennis shoes for $3.00. for example. Back in the late 70’s.
Too bad I was not into airguns back then. Come to think of it, neither were they.
I shot an Anschutz .22 biathlon rifle at the Whistler (BC, Canada) biathlon range one summer many years ago. It had a very simple and usable easy to use bolt, and a peep sight dialed in for the competition range of 50 meters. Three of us (my wife, son and myself) were all capable of knocking down targets with these. For me it was so easy I switched from the larger standing targets (4.8 inch diameter) to the prone targets (1.8 inches). Still easy, so I got up and ran a couple of wind sprints then shot again…and still went 5 for 5.
The peep sights are great for fixed distances like this, they are hard to knock out of alignment. And as BB says, once we were instructed on how to use them (keep both eyes open and set the target on top of the post) we could shoot like real marksmen.
BenT,,
Soldier Hollow in Utah, West Yellowstone Montana, Crosscut Mountain Sports Center North of Bozeman Montana, Fort Kent, Main and a few others all offer similar Biathlon Experience Packages in the USA.
Great People who ski and shoot ;^) i really am not biased…too much….
shootski
PS: that straight pull bolt was probably a FORTNER ACTION.