Hatsan Factor Sniper Long.
This report covers:
- How did it hold?
- Adjust the regulator
- Filled the tank
- Leaking
- Replaced the seal
- Still leaking
- End of test
- Summary
Today we test the Hatsan Factor Sniper Long PCP air rifle for velocity after adjusting the regulator. Let’s get started.
How did it hold?
I filled the Factor to 300 bar after the last report in mid-September. Today (Nov 17) it has half the pressure it had then. So the rifle is leaking slowly.
Over about two months the Factor air tank lost half its air. The regulator pressure gauge doesn’t read correctly because there isn’t enough pressure in the air tank.
Adjust the regulator
To adjust the Factor reg you first remove the high pressure air tank. It unscrews from the action. Then you release the small amount of air remaining in the rifle. The Hatsan manual shows how to do this but I couldn’t see it that clearly. But you can also fire the air out as long as the rifle is pointed in a safe direction.
Once the air is removed Hatsan instructions say to turn the regulator adjustment screw toward + to increase reg pressure and toward – to decrease it. Unfortunately I could not see a + or a – in the picture in the manual. So I took my own picture for you.
The picture for adjusting the reg isn’t that clear in the manual…
… so I took my own picture. That thing with all the holes is the reg adjustment. Hatsan gives you a special tool to fit into one of those holes.
With all the air out of the rifle you turn the regulator adjustment screw in the direction you want it to go. I wanted to drop the reg pressure down from the 240 bar it was set to as it came from the factory to somewhere around 150 bar or maybe a little less.
Filled the tank
After adjusting the reg I attached the tank to the rifle and filled it again. I had to use the female quick-disconnect Hatsan sent with the rifle because none of my tank fittings fit the male Foster connector on the Factor. Switching the couplings was not straightforward but after most of an hour I had the new hose coupling working.
When I filled the tank I learned that the adjustment I had made moved the reg from 240 bar to 110 bar. That was lower than I had hoped, but I decided to shoot the rifle and see how it went.
The reg is now set at around 110 bar. The angle of the camera distorts the view a little. The tank was filled but in the time it took to take this picture (3-4 minutes) it leaked down a little.
Leaking
The Factor tank was now leaking audibly. I tried tightening it as much as possible but the leak never went away. So I took it off the rifle to see what the problem was. The bonded air seal (Douty seal) that seals the tank to the rifle appeared to be the problem. That was where the air was leaking.
The bonded or Douty washer seal that seals the air tank appeared to be a problem.
Replaced the seal
I removed the damaged seal and replaced it with a new one that came with the rifle.
The replacement seal (left) seems to be less distorted than the seal that was on the rifle.
After replacing the seal I tried filling the rifle with the Hill Evo 310 compressor. It filled quickly to 146 bar and then seemed to need more time so I left the compressor running and went back to my office to work. After 10 minutes I checked on the fill and it was still at 146 bar. I let the compressor run another 15 minutes and when the pressure remained at 146 bar I figured the new seal was also leaking.
Still leaking
I stopped the fill and removed the tank. Then I attached it to the rifle. It was leaking fast to very fast and no matter how tight I tightened the tank the leak remained.
End of test
It was at this point I decided to check out the reviews of the Factor. There was only one bad one out of nine on the Pyramyd AIR site, but it was for a leaking problem. When I went on the internet, though, there were problems with leaking everywhere. Many of them stemmed from removing the air tank for a regulator adjustment so I think that is a weak point.
I spent about 3.5 hours doing what should have taken an hour and I never got to shoot the rifle for the test. I don’t have time for this, so I’m setting the Factor Sniper Long aside to be returned.
Summary
The Hatsan Factor Sniper Long PCP air rifle has a lot going for it. It’s powerful, tunable, adjustable and the accuracy tests I’ve read online have all praised the rifle. But the leaking problem is a big issue because to adjust the regulator the air tank has to be removed.
I’m not saying to avoid the Factor. It offers features that currently sell for a thousand dollars and more above its retail price. I’m advising you to take advantage of the 10 for 10 test that’s offered for free and also pay for the PCP 24-hour leak test.
A Factor that doesn’t leak could be a real joy, as long as you keep in mind that this is a 13-pound air rifle that’s suited best for shooting off a bench or a bipod. In my opinion Hatsan made the Factor Sniper Long to be a giant killer and it has all the features that you need for that.
B.B.,
Were the Dowty Seals lubricated?
shootski
shootski,
Yes.
BB
B.B.,
Thank you.
Just looking at the two photos of seal that was installed by the manufacturer (?) there are the apparent indications (in my opinion) of a non perpendicular or (parallel) mating surface(s) and the subsequent extrusion of the sealing material on pressurization. That would also explain why any additional tightening could not slow or stop the leaking.
The higher the pressure of the fluid contained the more important that the “metal washer” and the mating surface(s) tolerance be nearer perfection.
That is one of the biggest failings of the Dowty Seal concept compared to an O-Ring groove design which reduces the number of engagement surfaces by at least half!
KISS
shootski
B.B.
Could you send it back to vendor under warranty?
Have a wonderful weekend everybody!
-Yogi
Yogi,
If it was mine I could no doubt send it back to PA under warrantee.
BB
This is another example of “compromise = when nobody is truly satisfied.” I would like to have all possible settings on my PCP, but as you can see above, combining all these features carries a higher risk of such problems.
Why to offer such a great option for individual setup and then introduce some trash seal in the most critical place to put it?…
With a Hatsan there’s always something that queers the deal.
I’ve had five Hatsan springers and they’ve all had flaws: The first has an oversized bore. The second had a plastic stock that split. The third has a gas spring that leaked completely. The fourth has a safety that jams regularly and the fifth has a rear sight with insufficient adjustment to get shots on paper at 25 yards.
Would I take a chance on a Hatsan PCP? No. Am I being unfair? Maybe. But five times bitten, ten times shy.
Good luck to anyone who does buy one though. Just keep in mind that your mileage may vary. Caveat emptor.
Btw, I also have a Hatsan Escort shotgun that’s been sitting in my gun safe since the day I bought it a decade ago. After my experience with their springers, I’m half afraid to discover what flaws the shotgun might have.
Bob Ryan,
I almost bought Hatsan, almost twice in fact… Thanks to comments like yours, I saved myself time and frustration. It is just sad, this Factor Sniper rifle could have been a bench shooting door opener for many people.
Bob,
I had a Webley/Hatsan Tomahawk. It was a halfway decent sproinger. I traded it off last year though for an AirForce Condor.
This year I traded the Condor for an Hatsan Galatian. It is a beautiful and well-made Hatsan. It does not leak.
I do remember when Hatsan first hit the market, it was not a good idea to buy one. The quality of their sproingers were horrible, most especially their variable gas sproingers. In later years the quality of all of their airguns improved dramatically. At one point the Hatsan Galatian was THE PCP to own.
What they have become, I cannot tell you. From what BB is telling us it does not sound good.
I have never been comfortable with a butt stock-air tank next to my face but my next PCP may have to be an Airforce as they seem to be the most likely not to leak . I know they all leak but from reading BB’s experience they should be the most trouble free.
I enjoy working on guns and air guns but I am just getting tired of chasing leaks mainly on my Dar GEN 3 Love the gun but we a have a saying in MS that applies to the Gen 3 DAR “he’s hell when he’s well but he’s always sick”
My ebay Daisy 99 Champion is due in tomorrow and I am like Ralphie on this one 🙂
ssc,
Over the years I have owned six AirForce air rifles. I own two right at this moment. These two will likely stay in my modest collection and be passed onto my grandson.
They are some of the best made air rifles on the market. I have had only one leak, and I fixed it with a little silicon oil. They will shoot with the best of them and if you are into it, they are a tinker’s dream come true. Just ask BB about the trigger on that Edge he got from me (which I would like to get back).
The only bb gun I have is a 1959 Daisy 99. You are going to like this one.
Hear, hear, Airforce may prove to be the HiLux of PCPs. The auto-safety can be a little glitchy but delete that, I mean uhh, “convert to manual safety”, and the rest puts up with unreasonable abuse. Even the CO2 adapter doesn’t leak, and even my constant tinkering hasn’t broken them yet.
Now SS, SL and FATS aside, if they would only have a limited-edition Edge run…
Mike,
That is not likely going to happen. The price of the Edge was artificially low to meet the price limitation. They were just too well made. I would really like to have mine back. I had given mine an eight-ounce, crisp trigger and installed baffles to quiet it a bit. I was getting 0.8 inch CTC groups at fifty yards.
If John McCaslin was to make that decision to bring back a limited edition, it would likely sell out very quickly. I would buy one.
Just checked on my Blitz 777 and its holding air just fine, they did check for leaks on the 10 -4-10.
Fortunately, there is no requirement to remove the bottle on this one.
This is a totally unacceptable condition and requirement for an adjustment. They need to install a shut off valve or better yet redesign the entire air rifle. Can’t the rifle just be shot to empty the bottle.
May be a pain but how many times will you need to adjust it.
Do they even have a quality control inspection prior to dumping them on the public, SAD SITUATION.
Bob,
My Galatian does not leak either. It is starting to sound as if as their market share increased, their quality control decreased.
RR,
Perhaps they are running too fast with new items after having a taste of success. It’s almost a gamble but hay, the Blitz 777 is around a thousand dollars less than the Western Sidewinder
BB,
That is a real shame about this air rifle. I have been pulling for Hatsan for some time now. I traded my .20 Condor for this .177 Galatian at the NC Show this year. I have been well pleased with it and have had no leakage from it.
There has likely been a big demand for this particular air rifle, and it would seem they are rushing it out the door to meet customer demand. A leak like this should not be happening and should have been caught at the factory.
The walnut stocked Discovery I had acquired at The Show leaked badly. After I disassembled it, I discovered why. It had been resealed, but in the process a couple of the o-rings had been shaved and would not seal. Their oops is my win. I picked it up for a real good deal. I am waiting for new o-rings at this moment.
There is a good chance that PAIR will send you a new one that does not leak. Eventually we will likely read a bit more one this air rifle in the future.
RidgeRunner of the Peeples Demakratik Republik of Virginia 🙁
Leaks like a sieve and the foster fittings don’t work with other foster fittings. Thanks. No.
The problem could be the seating surface or just a cheap bonded seal, or both. The bonded seals I am used to look like an o-ring bonded to the inside diameter of a steel washer. They also require a nice smooth surface to seal properly just like the sealing surfaces for an o-ring.
Mike
Here is a cut away of what I am used to seeing.
bmwsmiley,
Mike my understanding is that in our airguns dissimilar metals used at mating surface points can cause gap changes that occur when discharge (pressure drop) cooling causes the dissimilar metals to contract at different rates causing fatal gap increases leading to extrusion of the polymer seal.
Just looking at the Hatsan Factors dowty seal and the reservoir bottle – receiver metal/composite mating surfaces i am forced to wonder about the materials choices (oversights) made.
shootski
Typically aluminum alloys have an alpha T of 21 to 24 x10^-6 C and steel is 10.8 to 12.5
x10^-6 C. This results in approximately 0.001 inches difference in expansion per inch of length or distance of expansion per 100 C of temperature change. The more likely cause of leaks due to temperature change, is the rubber seals when the rubber gets cold it is very stiff and does not seal as well when pressure changes up or down. Viton is more susceptible to this than buna-n, the lower limits are -26 C / -15 F and -40 C / -40 F respectively. Like all rubber materials the closer to the limit you go the more likely you will have problems.
This is why hunting in the middle of winter can be problematic, this can be a real issue when the high for the day is -40 F.
Yes I have intentionally gone outside for extended periods of time when it is this cold. I learned to downhill ski in the mountains of Idaho when much younger.
But then again most critters don’t move much when it is that cold.
Mike
FM can only conclude, after hearing of all these Hatsan troubles, that the company’s quality-control people must all be…turkeys.
FawltyManuel and READERSHIP,
“Turkey is now officially called Türkiye because the government launched a rebranding campaign to align the country’s name with its own language and culture, and to dissociate it from the negative connotations of the English word “turkey”. The country has been called Türkiye in Turkish since its founding in 1923, and the official change is meant to improve its international image by avoiding the association with the bird and the definition of “turkey” as a “failure” or “stupid person”. ”
The only wild turkey (the birds) left on Earth are in North America to include the ones in Mexico which are mostly a separate branch. The rest were either hunted to extinction or fell to some diseases.
IMHO anyone who passes up the opportunity to buy a Quackenbush PCP is a TURKEY.
GOBBLE, GOBBLE, gobble, GOBBLE.
shootski
Turkeys were wise Ben Franklin’s suggestion for our National Symbol. Anyone who has hunted them knows how tough and wiley they can be.
Somehow, they got a bad rap. I suppose the Turks did too, but perhaps for different reasons, their quality control issues being but one….
RG,
I think turkeys have a bad rap because of the domesticated ones. The truth is even they are not that stupid. They are just penned up from the get go by us humans. Hey, the bald eagle is a scavenger.
RidgeRunner,
When i was a SNA (Student Naval Aviator) we were all called a TURKEY enough times by our Flight Instructors that you would think that you had a new name issued. When i became a Flight Instructor the Admiral banned calling SNA Turkeys…so one Instructor came up with a new nickname: Leper! The BAN was soon quietly rescinded.
OFF TOPIC ALERT
Speaking of bad raps i recently asked AI how many outboard motors the typical fisherman installs on a fishing skif; the answer was one or two. Then i asked AI how many motors the typical smuggler installed on their skif; the answer was four or more very powerful outboard motors to ensure being able to get more than 60 KNOTS to allow them to out run even the fastest law enforcement boats. Thank heaven for aircraft and faster projectiles.
Seems like we might suspect who are Turkeys (or complicit enablers) among the “Leadership” of various countries….
shootski
shootski,
I am curious as to why no one is asking how much money certain members of the DNC or the DNC itself is receiving from these “fishermen”. Perhaps the DNC and liberal media members are more concerned about the inflationary costs of their nose candy due to the actions of The Donald’s administration members?
As to what we are learning about here, I suspect that what we are seeing with the leakage of this and other problems many are experiencing with new “stuff” stems from many companies attempting to rush “the latest and greatest” to market and rake in the bucks before something “new” comes out and takes away their market share. “Maybe it does have issues, but we’ll fix it later”.
I have seen this for quite some time with the auto industry. I never, ever, ever buy a “new” design change from these folks until it has been on the market for a couple of years. We airgunners are starting to see this issue with our airguns. I am most hesitant to buy “the latest and greatest” airgun, or anything for that matter, until all of the bugs in it have been worked out.
Sometimes, but not often, we miss out. A prime example of this is the ASP20. The major problem with it was it was too expensive for many to afford it. By the time many of us figured out it was indeed a good sproinger, Sig Sauer started chasing after the big money being shucked out by “The Guvment” and stopped making them. Ah well, it is not the first airgun I would not mind having and missed out on.
There is another problem with the ASP20 that many of us have avoided. It is a gas sproinger. 😉
Roamin Greco,
See my response to RR above.
shootski
These days, it is all about rebranding, shootski. In that spirit, FM will rebrand/change his opinion on Hatsan’s quality control and declare, in Foghorn Leghorn style, that the company’s QC is in the “hands” of…dodos?
Would agree on your IMHO but he who misses the opportunity will from this point be considered a dodo.
FM believes a .25 QB rifle would be one of the rarer ones to find, but FM could be wrong as often he is.
FawltyManuel,
Rebranding doesn’t work; i my opinion!
See my response to RR above.
shootski
Shootski
Could you spell that name phonetically for those of use who are linguistically challenged?
Hatsan has been making a great effort to improve the quality of their merchandise. I am afraid that they are experiencing “growing pains” in the process. It is my hope that they will be grateful for the informed criticism and we will all benefit from it.
Ed
edlee,
Two syllables the first, Tür is emphasized as TOUR but the OU is higher pitched and more U sounding than usual; sort of like the oo in shootski The second syllable kiye rhymes with sky.
hth,
shootski
In Aviation we refer to those rubber bonded washers as “Nitro Washers” … Nitrile rubber bonded washers.
Think about it, they cant be crushed beyond the thickness of the metal washer.
Bob M,
Crush Washers can only be used once to the best of my knowledge = EXPENSIVE.
O-Rings take good design engineering and a modicum of SKILL/CARE to install correctly = Lowest Bidder Contractors/Manufacturers choose bonded washers…Ca-CHING.
shootski
The demand for high performance seals in space vehicles and other industries must be great.
Does anyone know if seal technology is getting the emphasis the airgun community needs? Has there been a big improvement since the 1980’s/1990’s? Like many here I no longer fill my PCP’s to maximum. The intent is to minimize leaking and maximize the seal’s lifetime. But I’m giving up shots per fill and my old shaky arthritic hands don’t need to be replacing bad seals.
Deck
Decksniper,
“Does anyone know if seal technology is getting the emphasis the airgun community needs? Has there been a big improvement since the 1980’s/1990’s?”
Tom makes a living writing about seal replacement and PCP leaks…for decades.
Hmmm…
shootski
PS: Okay, he does write about replacing springs as well ;^)
Shootski
I’m aware of our mentor’s experience with seals at least for my 13 years reading his blog. But I’m wondering about better materials used to make seals.
Deck
Decksniper,
Sorry misplaced humor on my part :^I
Nitrile Rubber was first made in post WW1 Germany. Then acrylonitrile-butadiene copolymers, given the name Buna N (most common material used for O-Rings and other seals) was patented in 1934 by German chemists Erich Konrad and Eduard Tschunkur, working for IG FARBEN. Leather and animal horn remained the go to proven/known materials to airgun makers and a bunch of other manufacturers of things that need pressure or vacuum seals.
We are mostly stuck with NBR because it is known, cheap, and works most of the time compared to other elastomers. Sadly for airguns as the pressures and temperatures increase NBR is probably not the best choice. I don’t think airgun design and engineering typically attracts the best and brightest. Exceptions to that reality happen but money talks the rest usually walk.
We maybe seeing some movement in the right direction but only time will tell.
Folks like Tim McMurray and Larry Durham of Mac1 Airguns (USFT designer-builder) knew about better seals and understood the Gas Laws.
It really worries me that most of the design and marketing types have a poor basic understanding of the Gas Laws.
shootski
…
shootski,
Manufacturers and marketeers are more concerned with making money than getting it right. Proper engineering takes away from the profit margin. Timed or balanced valves cost more than knock open valves. If an airgun has a regulator, they charge extra, often several times more than it costs them.
Yes, making it right in the first place means larger profits in the long term, but when you are more concerned about profits THIS quarter and do not give a hang about profits down the road… That is what happened with Sig Sauer. Sauer und Sohn used to make some awesome pistols. I did not buy their junk in the 80’s and would be most definitely hesitant to buy a new Sig these days.
Decksniper,
The airgun folks should be looking at this kind of information: https://www.machinedesign.com/materials/article/55332815/ensinger-keep-up-with-plastics-the-rise-of-thermoplastic-composites
However, will they?
Your guess is as good as mine!
shootski
Shootski
Wow! Sure hope the world’s movers and shakers in airgun manufacturing read that.
Deck
shootski,
And throwing away gas sproingers. 😉
RidgeRunner,
Properly designed Knock Open Valves have a place in high power Big Bore with very low shot count requirements. Timed locks are certainly an example of elegant craftsmanship.
You and i seem to have a slight difference in our understanding of balanced valves. I think of balanced valves as being a knock open were the Hammer/Striker spring rate is balanced by the valve closing spring and the reservoir(plenum) pressure usable range. The other valve type that comes to mind is a Spool Valve that uses a pneumatics or solenoid system for OPEN duration control.
SIG still builds some awesome pistols and rifles but many (perhaps most) owners/operators are not very well trained at SAFE Operational handling and definitely terrible at SAFE administrative handling.
shootski
PS: My daughter is now a Firearms Instructor for her PD!
I am with Decksniper on fill pressures. Do we really need to fill to over three thousand PSI? I just acquired a Discovery and a Maximus that only fill to two thousand PSI. If I install a regulator, these air rifles will easily work at three thousand PSI. Why should I do that though? That is just something else to go bad and having well over thirty good shots at two thousand is not too bad.
As many of you know, I am an unashamed advocate for lower pressures. The big bore air rifles of old operated quite well on less than one thousand PSI. Why must modern air rifles have such high pressures? Because the engineers got lazy. It is not just their fault though. The manufacturers and marketeers insisted that the engineers design in price cuts, such as knock open valves instead of timed or balanced valves. When regulators became cheap, the manufacturers and marketeers saw the opportunity to increase sales by increasing shot count by increasing fill pressures. I don’t know about you folks, but this dumb ole country boy ain’t gonna shuck out those kinda bucks. If they are depending on me, they are going to go bankrupt.
Do not get me wrong. I have owned and do own regulated PCP air rifles. You cannot get away from them. Would I spend the money if I could get an air rifle that had a timed valve that operated on less than one thousand PSI? You betcha. I am looking for one right now.
Until then, my next new air rifle will likely be a 3622. Now if Gamo brings it out this year, I will more likely buy a 3677.
RidgeRunner of the Peeples Demakratik Republik of Virginia 🙁
RidgeRunner,
I just found this LINK i had in my bookmarks: https://www.machinedesign.com/learning-resources/whats-the-difference-between/article/21835177/whats-the-difference-between-poppet-and-piston-spool-valves
It may be of a little help to folks that are new to PCPs in understanding what is being discussed.
shootski
RR
Do you own a HW100 or have it on the wish list? The price has come down some but still beyond my reach. Is it the holy grail of balanced valve PCP’s currently being made?
Deck
Ridge. I’m seeing the 3677 many places when I do a search I do not see them at Pyramid. Some results look dicey but some are from known and reputable companies.
The 99 Champion came in yesterday. I soaked the plunger and piston with Boudreaux’s secret sauce most of the day then shot it a few times last night. No Chrony numbers just five shots in the garage from 5 meters. Hit nearly point of aim with a satisfying shot cycle and sound. Very happy thus far. Best part, the seller had a buy it now of $49.00 with $8.00 shipping. ya I jumped on that 🙂