Rifle scope.
This report covers:
- Background
- Joseph Juran’s pencil exercise
- Personal test
- Adjusting the scope after every shot
- Better ammo
- Whadda ya do?
- Tell us
I recently had the opportunity to witness one of the things I write about and used to teach. It was so dramatic that it caused this report.
Background
I was at the outdoor rifle range with a buddy who had mounted a scope on his centerfire bolt-action rifle. On this day he was trying to sight the scope in. He started at 100 yards but when several shots failed to hit the 2-foot by 4-foot / .61m by 1.22m backer paper, to say nothing of the bullseye target that was stapled to it, we dropped him back to 50 yards.
Even at 50 yards he was off the paper. So I boresighted his rifle and got a shot to hit the paper. Then it was time to adjust the scope. And he did what I have seen several others do. He adjusted the scope after every shot! If you wonder what’s wrong with that, today’s report is for you!
Joseph Juran’s pencil exercise
Dr. Joseph M. Juran was one of several Americans who “invented” Japanese management (Dr. W. Edwards Deming was another) in the 1950s and ’60s. If you don’t know what Japanese management is, this is a good tutorial.
Dr Juran had an exercise designed to demonstrate to senior managers why it isn’t a good idea to make frequent changes to a system. They call it “tweaking” but it’s interference just for the sake of it so they can feel good about doing something.
Juran had a student stand over a piece of rectangular white paper with a dot in its center and drop a pencil, point-first, onto the paper, trying to hit the dot. The pencil eraser was held to the tip of the student’s nose before dropping and the pencil was as close to straight-up-and-down as the person could make it.
Wherever the pencil struck the paper, Dr. Juran then reported the result (where the pencil hit in reference to the dot) to the rest of the class who couldn’t see the paper. They were the “managers.” They then developed instructions for the tester to adjust for the next attempt. He had to do whatever they told him! Within a few drops, the pencil wasn’t even striking the paper any more!
Personal test
I taught the Department of Defense about Japanese Management in the 1980s and ’90s and I have run Juran’s pencil test in my class. It works out the same way EVERY TIME! Allowing people who don’t see the problem firsthand the opportunity to make corrections always gets you into trouble.
That may have been a management training exercise, but the same thing happens when a shooter takes a new air rifle and starts adjusting the reticle on the basis of two or three shots. Worse yet is adjusting the scope after a single shot. Shoot a group of ten, and then you’ll know what to do – which MIGHT include looking for a better pellet!
Adjusting the scope after every shot
Adjusting the scope after every shot is doing the same thing on the horizontal as the Juran pencil test is on the vertical. The shooter who does it will soon be off the paper, even if they started with the first shot in the bullseye.
Better ammo
And let’s also consider that “better pellet” remark. When you sight in a scope make sure you give the firearm or pellet gun the best possible chance of hitting the target.
But what if you have never shot this rifle previously? How could you possibly know what a “better pellet” might be? Of course you couldn’t. But there are things you can know! This is why I often refer to some pellets as “premium.” They won’t always be the best for a particular airgun but they most likely won’t be entirely bad, either.
There are pellets that are entirely inaccurate. In my limited experience, Gamo Raptor pellets fall into this category. And what holds true for pellets also holds true for firearm ammo
Many firearm ammo brands are reasonably accurate but the stuff that comes with steel cases and corrosive primers from eastern Europe is probably not the stuff to sight in with. Yeah—it goes boom when the trigger is pulled and a bullet does come out of the barrel, but where American-made ammo might group in 3-4 inches at 100 yards, this stuff is lucky to group in 8-10 inches or worse!
Whadda ya do?
What you should do is shoot groups of ten shots with your scoped rifle before adjusting anything. That gives you a good idea where the center of the group really is. Some shooters have gotten lazy and shoot only two or three shots before adjusting a scope. Well, if you’re shooting a TX200 that you’ve shot 5,000 times before, you can probably get away with stuff like that. If you’re shooting a spring-piston air rifle for the first time, it’s another story.
Tell us
I told you about my recent experience. I know you guys know better than to do that but do any of you have tales to tell about similar things?
B.B.,
“I was at the outdoor rifle range with a buddy…”
Where did you find this “buddy”?
shootski
shootski,
He’s a friend of mine from church. What difference does that make?
BB
B.B.,
Actually there are at least two reasons that it makes a difference. Your Reply(s) makes your buddy into more of a fleshed out person beside just another “ignorant” firearm owner. That might have created less of a chance of a blood bath by the Readership of your blog who very fortunately and typically know much more about hooting than many firearm only shooters typically do.
Hopefully he or she thanked you after you were of assistance in the process of sighting in.
Hopefully your shooting buddy will continue to learn and provide material for this blog and its readers.
shootski
shootski,
Okay, gotcha.
We are not finished sighting in that rifle yet. Need one more trip to the range.
BB
B.B.,
At the very least!
shootski
Tom,
I wonder why he was sighting in at a 100 yards from the get go? Wouldn’t it be better to shoot closer in before going farther out?
Siraniko
Siraniko,
Of course it would. I assumed he had bore sighted the scope before we started.
BB
Tom,
Ah there is that word ASSUMED. Which can make an A** of U and ME. From the way you you describe what happened on the range I think he just mounted on the scope and assumed it would hit the target as shown in a lot of movies.
Siraniko
I’ve always used a torso or large cardboard target for any rifle with a new scope. Once youre on paper just make groups and adjust. Seems like a no brainer
Taemyks.
The paper we put behind the target was the plain back of a human torso target.
BB
To me, the takeaway is the number of shots in that initial group. Before getting back into airguns and reading this blog and other sources, I thought 3-shot groups were enough. This was for sighting in the ol’ deer rifle for hunting season. Especially since centerfire ammo was so expensive or I only had limited quantities for sighting in AND hunting, I ended up chasing little 3-hole triangles around the paper, when I should have just followed the right, time-tested procedure. Start with a close up target to make sure you will be on paper, then 5 or better 10-shot (20-shot is close to best) groups to find the real center and size of your group. FYI: “Fliers” outside of a 5 shot group are rarely still fliers when you shoot a 20-shot group.
It’s really a game of statistics and probabilities. What will give you the best chances of all your shots landing within a desired-sized circle at a desired range? I learned the hard way that 3 or 5 shots is not a big enough statistical sample size for predictability.
Yeah, start at 25. Get on paper. Math it out. Then move back. Generally I can go from 25 to 100 to 200 with proper feedback from chronograph and ballistic app.
Hey Guys, here’s what happened:
I mounted a scope on my new Walther RM8 and zeroed it at 10 meters (in my basement). At my shooting ranch, I wanted to reset the zero, first at 25 meters. Why did I also need to adjust the horizontal alignment? Is my scope not vertically aligned correctly?
tomek,
It could be that—not aligned vertically—or your pellets might be spiraling.
BB
Thank you! I’m affraid there is some missalignment. It means I need to work on this one again. Some years ago I was happy to do the scope setup, now I really hate it!
Another possibility is the bore could be ever so slightly misaligned with the outside of the barrel or the scope rail. Depending on how much you have to adjust horizontally at your max shooting distance, you may find the differential at shorter distances is negligible, or at least, tolerable.
If the differential is repeatable, then you could records adjustments for different ranges in a D.O.P.E. chart. Shootski will have more. Gotta run.
tomek,
Your 25 meter range is out of doors? Even a gentle breeze that hardly registers on a wetted finger will shift the horizontal trajectory a surprising amount as well as the vertical; but by a bit less.
Then there is cant (side tilt) that shows more at greater distances as well as the sight line and bore axis not being symmetrical in the Z axis.
There are a bunch more things that could be the cause in this game of slaying the VARIABLES.
shootski
RM, Shootski,
Thanks for the info. The range was outside, slightly windy. The groups were fantastic (one hole) – but on the left side. I zeroed at 25 meters and went back to check at 10 meters. The group was slightly to the right. I was just expecting a difference up – down, not a left-right issue. The scope’s reticle is fine, from my feeling. Hmmmmmm… Need to take someone to check how am I holding the rifle.
I can tell you that this RM8 is boring, just too accurate 😀
B.B.
I heard Dr. Deming speak twice.
So much “common sense” it almost laughable.
-Y
Yogi,
I am impressed! I was never privledged to hear any of those men, but in teaching about the things they did I was overwhelmed by all their common sense.
My late aunt once told me that common sense isn’t all that common.
BB
“They call it “tweaking” but it’s interference just for the sake of it so they can feel good about doing something.” That perfectly describes FM’s experience in dealing with government manager-types and why “government manager” is just another oxymoron.
If all else fails, read the instructions, provided these were written by someone who actually knows/understands the subject of the instructions.
Ah, but then you run the danger of losing your “man card”.
Fred formerly of the Demokratik Peeples Republik of NJ now happily in GA
FM
I have “been subjected to” quite a number of government managers and have found that they are not all that bad. Since they are a constantly changing group, subject to promotions, demotions, changing stations, or choosing to pursue civilian status, their experience in a single position at a single base is often limited to the length of a single tour.
So it is not really military management that should be described as an oxymoron, but military intelligence may better qualify. I’ve been subjected to,, and the subject of that as well.
Ed
I was in charge of implementing a Quality program at my work place, so I read about the ‘gurus’ of quality. Though Management mandated a program originated by Crosby, I was quite familiar with the work of Deming and Juran. I was fortunate enough to attend a seminar by Stephen Covey. Those guys led a change in thinking that transformed industries. It is sad that they – and their teachings – are sometimes forgotten.
Henry
Yogi,
Do you think Dr. Deming was a springer man or PCP devotee?
jumpin
Jumpin
Definitely a pcp guy. Way too much unsolvable variation with springers. His statistical teachings would become laughable.
Deck
This is exactly what I was talking about when I stated that using a pellet rifle for target shooting can be a source of anguish in trying to achieve accuracy.
Sighting-in to a group is obviously helpful but you need to find the pellet that works best with the rifle to achieve the smallest group first.
And now we have PCP and Multi-Pump “Power Adjustments” or pressure drops to deal with and how each pellet will react at various distances.
A scope would likely need readjusting for each pellet type at each distance at each power setting and if you don’t have a regulator, at various air pressures remaining.
So, unless you shoot the same pellet, at the same distance, at the same power setting you probably should keep a logbook to record everything and use a scope with an indexed reticle or mildots to avoid re-sighting your scope all the time.
For pesting I prefer a 4X, dual reticle scope. The inner reticle I used as a sort of index reference. Scope sighted-in at thirty yards, my average shooting distance.
Bob M,
Oh oh! Are you trying to get my job? 😉
This is why I said the readers of this blog wouldn’t do what I was describing in the story. You guys know SO much more about shooting!
BB
Really, BB? FM still remembers installing a scope bass-ackwards on a Maximus gifted by Gunfun, then being totally puzzled by the groups “crawling” off the paper target, believe to the left, becoming increasingly frustrated by what was going on. It took sending Gunfun a pic of the scope as it sat on the rifle for the obvious to surface. He then diplomatically pointed out the adjustment knobs were incorrectly oriented so when FM was trying to adjust for windage, he was actually messing with the vertical adjustment.
Moral of the story: not all who visit and/or comment here “know SO much more about shooting.” As for taking shooting/scoping advice from FM – ye have been warned! 😉
Basil,
Sometimes it’s the stupid stuff that helps us learn the best. That’s why I am a teacher.
BB
B.B.,
I learned a great deal from my students about flying.
As an instructor i found also helped me fend off the COMPLACENCY MONSTER.
Which is the biggest killer in aviation.
shootski
Soon after getting into airguns I mounted a $100 scope on some springer I had acquired. At only 10 meters I took a shot which landed on paper but too far left. I made several clicks to get on target. Shot #2 was still in same place as the first. Quite a few more clicks were called for. You guessed it. Shot #3 missed the entire paper. Long story short. This taught me at least two lessons. Start with turret spring tension (both turrets) at least 3/4 of maximum and bump the scope to overcome stiction after adjusting. Since then I also learned to not pay much attention to first few shots with either the gun or pellet change.
PS: I was not new to rifle scopes and bore sighting. I had even had my eyebrow baptized by a 30.06.
Deck
Deck,
Ahhh! The reliable eyebrow kiss! How many of us have done the same? 😉
BB
Likely far more than will admit such, myself included.
I got a big thumb bump on my nose with a T/C contender loaded with full house .44 Mag. Lesson learned!
Henry
Henry,
Ouch! I remember the Contender .44 Mag as a wrist-breaker.
BB
BB
Like touching your finger to a hot stove, one lesson is all you need!
Deck
Deck,
Or not getting your thumb out of the magazine well of an M1 Garand quickly enough!
BB
BB
Ouch or much worse and I’m betting everybody who has shot one a lot has done it.
Deck
You would lose that bet, but I have come close. They have given me a sore shoulder though.
Ah, the dreaded M1 thumb. Fortunately for me, I had learned about such and learned how to avoid it before ever having picked one up. I can see in the heat of battle how such could easily happen though.
RR
My minor pinch happened not long ago. Not from mag loading, rather from careless cleaning with bolt open. Happily, no lasting damage to a finger tip.
Deck
Amen
One issue many of the powder burner folks have is the cost of ammunition and as you have pointed out in this blog, ignorance. Most do not wish to spend their money on several boxes of quality ammunition just to sight in a scope. They also expect to just slap a scope on top of their rifle and wherever they look, the projectile should go.
Most of them also do not do their own reloading. Every projectile should do the same thing, right? They look the same. So what if it is a different brand?
I sometimes find myself at the range down the road. I often see young folks there blasting away with their Mattelomatics and various 9mm pistols. What I really find amusing is some will lay out clay pigeons on the bank at one hundred yards and expect to hit them with rapid fire.
Usually, the serious shooters will show up relatively early in the morning, take a few shots and leave by time the “kids” show up. Do not get me wrong. Some of the “kids” will show up with the old geezers to learn what is really going on.
BB,
I thought I was more or less adding information about problems involved in ‘using’ or not having to adjust one for accurate target shooting, not really about adjusting one. A good example of problems with airgun accuracy.
Being articulate is challenging.
Speaking of which, I just watched a news article on the anniversary of the Los Angeles wildfire.
They had a woman clearly articulate the life changing and emotional stress a family has after losing their home and everything they ever owned and the fact that they will never be able to return to the life they had again. Emotionally stressful to hear.
She then went on to articulate the failure of government, prior to, during and after the LA Palisades wildfire. Extremely informative. I believe she was an attorney living there.
Kind of like you presenting information to us.
Looking forward to a great new year. Not sure about the part of being 79. Just had a dream about my storage being robbed. The worse part was I could not remember what was in there.
Bob M,
“… I could not remember what was in there.” Man, do I identity with that!
Got rid of the storage locker a couple years ago. Gave the contents to two storage locker buyers for clearing it out. Then started saving hundreds of dollars per quarter for a roomful of stuff I never used!
FINALLY cleaned out my office! Threw out a ton of stuff I never needed and one thing—the steel muzzle cap for the threads of a .22 rifle—that I did. Then Ian McKee told me those things are generic and sell online for about 12 dollars. I bought one and everything is now fine!
Yes, 79 is on its way this year. My advice to youngsters is don’t get old, but they tell me the alternative isn’t that good, either.
BB
BB,
You obviously haven’t seen the YouTube videos that show that you only need three shots to sight in your new rifle. 😉
I enjoy working on airguns, setting up, finding the best projectile, sighting in, break-in, and tuning are all a fun part of preparing for shooting.
I’m thinking about this because I have a new pcp (my last one), a Christmas gift from my wife, coming tomorrow. In spite of winter and snow, I’m looking forward to starting the break-in – even if I have to shoot from the bedroom window! 🙂
Hank
Funny how a lot of ( last ones ) get replaced with ( must haves ) that transition into last ones. I have a few of them myself.
That part of fun preparing a new airgun to shoot may also contribute to airgun enjoyment enough that it leads to doing it again, and again.
Airgunning may be a perfect hobby?
B.B. and Readership,
This topic is one of the Best of the Best!
You have all touched on the Precision and Accuracy debate once again.
Groups are the measure of Precision of the device (in this case powder charge and barrel performance) to deliver projectiles to the same place with a minimum of variables coming into play. There is only a need to aim at a consistent POA (Point Of Aim) and to get somewhere on the paper to record a large enough group to get a measure of the precision of the system.
After that accuracy is getting the POA to coincide, within reason, with the POI (Point Of Impact) at a chosen distance and that is the Sighting In part of this entire process that Tom’s buddy and many other shooters don’t know or forget in their haste to “get sighted in” now.
EVEN when i have a known shooting system i don’t expect to ever have a refined sight in when some time has passed or the conditions (VARIABLES) have changed.
Think about a COLD BORE shot…how do you sight in for those? Do they only apply to Firearms?
Did your scope internals temperature change or did the atmospheric pressure change significantly enough to change the scope tubes alignment? Are you shooting to the East and your last sight in was to the West? Just too many things to remember? One word:
DOPE covers much of this, NO not that kind, the shooters kind.
shootski