Monday, June 05, 2006

Get a new airgun from AirForce with just a tank change!

by B.B. Pelletier

AirForce has a new air tank called the MicroMeter tank. It's really the same 490cc tank they use for the other guns, but with a brand new air valve installed. If you already own an AirForce gun, buying this new tank will be almost like getting a second gun! That's because the MicroMeter tank uses less air for each shot. The shots are less powerful but also more consistent, and that's what this new tank is all about - consistency and power!

All three AirForce rifles were created for high power. Although they all have power adjustment wheels, when the power is turned down very low, their shot-to-shot velocity is less consistent. The MicroMeter tank tightens the velocity variance, but it does so at a very low power. So, you get an extremely consistent low-power rifle that's perfect for target shooting and indoor pest elimination.

Tight velocity strings at lower power
I've tested the MM tank on all three AirForce rifles. The tank was developed for shooters who want lots of shots with tightly controlled velocity - such as target shooters. Plus, plenty of moms and dads who bought AirForce guns for themselves also wanted to teach their kids how to shoot. Well, little Sally and Sam don't need the 25 foot-pounds of a Talon SS, to say nothing of the even greater power of the Talon or Condor. With the MM tank installed, your SS becomes a 10 foot-pound gun on the highest power setting. In fact, with the SS, the power wheel doesn't really do much (exception - if it's set below about No. 6, the shots do vary more in speed). It shoots .22 Premiers at 560 f.p.s. And, talk about quiet! It's SUPER-QUIET, with enough power to take out most pests at 25 yards! If you want more, install your standard SS tank, and you're back in the game.

Best on the Talon!
The 18" barrel of the Talon, coupled with the standard powerplant, gives you real adjustability. From a high of 13.8 foot-pounds down to a low of 6.7 foot-pounds, the Talon's range is very useful. Most of the adjustability kicks in below power setting 6. And, the Talon is a quiet gun at the lower ranges. Maybe not as quiet as an SS, but it's very neighbor-friendly, if you know what I mean. You can quickly get back to over 30 foot-pounds in seconds with a tank change.

And the Condor shines!
You MUST get one of these tanks if you own a Condor! The more powerful Condor powerplant and 24" barrel give a power spread of 14 to 15 foot-pounds, which isn't much, but this is the tank to tame the savage beast! How many Condor owners bought their guns expecting great power and quiet operation only to discover it doesn't work that way? The power you get, but a Condor is as loud as a .22 long rifle. With the MM tank, though, your Big Bird becomes a parakeet. With the Condor tank, you can't go below about 19 foot-pounds, but the MM tank clips off another 4 to 5 foot-pounds! It becomes a different gun.

The best of all
Talon and Talon SS owners who have the 24" optional barrel installed will get a HUGE adjustment spread! From 15 on the top end down to 4 or 5 on the bottom, they will have the greatest air rifle on the market - especially when you consider that just installing the standard tank will boost them to a maximum of 45 foot-pounds! There is nothing close to this performance spread anywhere else.

It's not every day that a manufacturer gives you an entirely new airgun for a fraction of the cost!

36 Comments:

At June 05, 2006 9:54 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB,

This might be not directly related to this particular post. In the recent 2005 AAFTA Nationals. four Mac1 USFT performed so well. Did they discover something sort of a techno breakthrough in accuracy?

Thanks.

Bamboo007

 
At June 05, 2006 12:15 PM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Bamboo007,

I doubt it. We are at the threshold limits of accuracy right now, and we have been there since the late 1990s, since Zasadny began converting 10-meter rifles to shoot FT.

What the Duram design has is a novel type of valve that gives remarkable efficiency with lower pressure fills. The barrels they use are nothing out of the ordinary - for top airgun barrels today.

Nothing in the design of the rifle makes it any more inherently accurate than any other top FT rifle.

What's happening is top FT shooters are now shooting this gun. They would do just as well with any top model rifle, as long as they felt good about shooting it.

B.B.

 
At June 05, 2006 3:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.

Do people use the talon for match competitions? Can the Talon/Talon SS/Condor keep up with higher end match rifles such as walthers or steyrs in terms of performance and accuracy since the airforce airguns use walther barrels?

Thanks

 
At June 05, 2006 3:46 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Match Talons?

No, AirForce airguns are never used for formal target matches. They lack the sights, trigger and ergonomics of a match rifle. And their Lothar Walther barrel (not a Walther barrel, which is made by a different company) is made to sporting speficications. While it is very accurate, it's not the same as the barrels found on an FWB or Anschutz target rifle.

By the same token, no match rifle made can keep up with an AirForce air rifle at 50 yards. They are too slow to reach out that far and produce the same small groups as the Talon.

Each type of air rifle is made specifically for what it's expected to do, and 10-meter target is far to specific a sport for anything but a full-blown target rifle to compete in.

B.B.

 
At June 05, 2006 9:12 PM, Anonymous Will said...

Hi BB,

I have no experience with scopes and no intuitive feel for choosing the right mag power for accuracy at a given range. I'm interested in the Bug Buster x6 but am concerned I might be disappointed for use beyond 25 yards, e.g. I doubt it is the right scope for 75 yrds & beyond. My point in asking is to make a good first-buy decision. I'm interested in being accurate from 10 to 100 yards, 1" groups from a supported hold (e.g. bench, knee).

You seem to like the 6x and have said it is easier to sight in on guns that you test, so it has its advantages.

A dealer recommend always getting an adjustable power scope with the highest mag (12x, 16x) you can afford and recommended against fixed mag, low power scopes.

Would you and any others that care to share their experience please offer some guidelines (mag vs range) assuming 1" groups from a bench or knee? Feel free to make any other required assumptions.

Thanks,
Will

 
At June 05, 2006 9:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB,

Is the difference of spread in velocity between the Talon/TalonSS with the 24" barrel and MM tank as compared to the Condor also with Micro Management Tank due to the heavier hammer in the Condor? If so in theory one could get the MM Tank and the Talon/SS hammer for the Condor and have a rifle with 5fpe to 60+fpe!

Jason

 
At June 06, 2006 8:19 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Will,

I agree with your dealer that a variable scope is your best bet. An AirForce 4 to 16 x 56 is my personal favorite at present.

I do like the Bug Buster for its convenience, and you can hunt deer with it to 150 yards with no problem, but for squirrels at 50 yards, it's a little underpowered.

B.B.

 
At June 06, 2006 8:22 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Jason,

You're getting a little far afield. A Condor with a Talon SS hammer is a Talon SS with a 24-inch barrel!

The Condor has no more velocity than the Talon SS with the optional 24-inch barrel installed. What you LOSE with the Condor is low-end adjustability.

B.B.

 
At June 06, 2006 4:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB,
You proved my point exactly. The Condor does about 20fpe to 60+fpe. Now if you bought the MM tank and installed the Talon hammer on the Condor, it will have the 5fpe low end of the Talon! Which would make the Condor a rifle which is capable of 5fpe to 60+fpe with tank and hammer changes!

Jason

 
At June 06, 2006 10:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB,

The idea of match Talons excites me. Is it practical and realistic to fit a FWB match barrel or any other match barrel and match triggers on a Talon?

My basic understanding of a match configuration would be a match barrel and match trigger and at pellet that gives the best accuracy. With FT, we use optics and of course we can the Talon has scope rails.

By the way, I did not know that Lothar Walther and Walther are different. Please tell us more, maybe in a post of its own on barrels. I heard the HW barrels are also very good.

It is very hard to find match barrels from Anschutz or FWB here in my area. We resort to steel barrels with brass inserts.

Bamboo007

 
At June 07, 2006 12:28 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.
I've seen pictures of condors/talons outfitted with paddings on the air cylinder to make the butt stock look similar to the one on the logun gladi8or. Does pyramidair sell those paddings as an accessory to put on talon/condor air rifles?

 
At June 07, 2006 8:37 AM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Jason,

The Condor powerplant upgrade can only be done at the factory without voiding the warranty. There is no way for an owner to do what you suggest without loosing his warranty, and, from listening to the howling on the Talon Owner's Group, apparently many of them have tried it to their great dissappointment! AirForce says they fix a lot of guns just because the owners go inside.

I don't need 60 foot-pounds from an air rifle. 45 is more than enough for everything I want to do.

B.B.

 
At June 07, 2006 8:43 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Jason,

An owner cannot change the Condor powerplant. It voids the warranty. Besides, 45 foot-pounds is more than enough power to do anything with an airgun.

B.B.

 
At June 07, 2006 9:30 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Bamboo007,

The trigger in all AirForce rifles is extremely complex and counter-intuitive. Many owners have wrecked their guns trying to make their triggers better. There is no known way to improve this trigger, and the ones advertised on the internet are a certain trip back to the factory for unwarranted repairs.

To install an FWB barrel you first have to get one. Where? Nobody with a barrel will sell it for anything affordable.

Yes, Lothar Walther is different than Walther. They are distantly related, but separate companies.

Wiehrauch barrels are average. They make a good target barrel, but like the FWB, where are you going to get one?

B.B.

 
At June 07, 2006 9:44 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Talon butt upgrades,

No, that stuff is do-it-yourself.

B.B.

 
At June 07, 2006 11:17 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.

I think I read somewhere that Airforce will be making a do-it-yourself kit to convert a Talon to a Condor in the future(I can't remember where I read it, but if I find out the site, I'll let you know). Have you heard anything about it, or know if that's true or not?

 
At June 07, 2006 6:48 PM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

I have spoken to AirForce about this. They initially thought they would make the Condor upgrade available to Talon SS owners, but when it proved to be a liability issue, they decided not to. They have no plans to ever make an upgrade available for owner installation.

B.B.

 
At June 09, 2006 3:21 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.
I think you mentioned somewhere that Airforce is considering or thinking about working on a repeater air rifle in the future. Are they still considering it in the future or has that plan been cancelled?

Thanks

 
At June 09, 2006 4:03 PM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

AirForce still has the repeating mechanism in the works. I think you might see something in 2007.

B.B.

 
At June 09, 2006 4:53 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks B.B. for your information. But I am curious though, when you say they are working on a repeating mechanism, do you mean that they are working on a talon/SS/condor with a repeating mechanism variation, or are they building a completely brand new repeating airgun. Sorry for asking so many questions, but I find the Airforce rifles very interesting.

Thanks and regards

 
At August 22, 2006 5:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.
I have been reading about Airforce rifles for a while now, I can't decide what to buy between the Talon SS and Condor, what would be your suggestion? I'm planning to use the rifle for both target shooting and hunting.
I also have another question how many shots per fill would I get with the talon SS and a MM tank and how many with the Condor and the same tank?
Thanks a lot for your help.

 
At August 23, 2006 6:49 PM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Either gun is wonderful. With the SS you always have the option of shooting quietly, plus you can boost the power by the addition of the optional 24" barrel. That would be my pick.

Both guns get hundreds of shots with the MicroMeter valve tank.

B.B.

 
At August 24, 2006 12:23 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.
Thanks a lot for your help.
I have another question; what happens if we use the Condor with a Standard Talon or Talon SS tank?
Is it true that it is just like a Talon SS with the optional 24" barrel?
Thanks again.

Osbiel

 
At August 24, 2006 6:59 PM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Osbiel,

A Condot wityh a standard tank gets about 75-100 f.p.s. more than a Talon SS.

B.B.

 
At August 24, 2006 7:01 PM, Anonymous B.B. Pelletier said...

Osbile,

I mean the SS with the short barrel. The Condor is horrible with the standard tank.

 
At August 24, 2006 11:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.
Thanks for your help, I guess I'll be buying a Talon SS.
Thanks for your help.

Osbiel.

 
At April 08, 2007 7:33 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB,

So I heard that the micrometer tank gets 40 shots at highest power setting for a talon ss. How is that different than the standard talon tank? I thought the whole purpose is to produce more consistent shots with the micrometer tank.

 
At April 09, 2007 12:06 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

bb,

I've got a condor using 12" barrel. How many accurate shots do I have with Micrometer tank out to 50 yards? What power setting do I need to use?

853

 
At April 11, 2007 4:49 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

853,

What you describe is a combination that I have not remotely considered. The Condor with a 12 inch barrel and micrometer tank is a weak Talon SS. So 50 yard groups will be problematic in any wind. You should get hundreds of shots on any power setting.

B.B.

 
At May 04, 2007 3:37 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello BB, im about to buy a .22 cal TalonSS with an aditional 24" Barrel (also .22), but since i dont have a chrony, i have a couple of questions...

1.- my main shooting pleasure, is shooting spinners silouetes at 50 to 60 yards, so i want to be able to get about 800 - 850 fps with a 15 grain pellet. Can you recommend an aproximate power setting to get this speed?, and how many consistent shots can i expect?

2.- Sometimes i would like to snipe those spinners at 100 yards, so i want 950 - 1000 fps with an 18 grain pellet. What setting would you recommend? and also how many shots should i expect?

3.- Can i really shoot at 100 yards with a TalonSS + 24" Barrel? or how far can i shoot with it at all? assuming larger groups of course, say enough to hit the bottom of a tuna can.

All questions assume the 24" barrel is installed of course.

Thanks!

Michael

 
At May 04, 2007 7:50 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Michael,

3. Yes, the Talon SS with a 24 inch barrel will EASILY shoot to 100 yards with accuracy. Just last weekend I spoke to two owners, one of whome had been shooting at targeta at 100 yards and was impressed that his pellets penetrated the 3/8" plywood backstop at that range. This was at the Little Rock Airgun Expo.

2. and 1. The number of shots you get depends on the velocity spread you are willing to accept. For number 1. I'd say 30-35 shots. For number 2 I'd guess 35-40 shots. But you will not get that velocity with an 18-grain pellet. You might get it with a 16-grain JSB.

B.B.

 
At May 04, 2007 4:11 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B., Thank you very much for your reply.

Just out of couriosity, just above, you mention that "The Condor is horrible with the standard tank."
A friend of mine has a condor with a Talon tank, and he seems to be happy with it, can you explain why is it terrible?
Thanks again! :)

Michael

 
At May 04, 2007 4:42 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Michael,

I read that comment and cannot remember what I was thinking of. A Condor with a standard tank gets more velocity, obviously. I believe I was thinking of a Condor with a 12-inch barrel, which is wasting most of the potential of the more powerful powerplant.

B.B.

 
At May 04, 2007 7:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

mhh, very interesting!, if the condor does in fact work OK with a Talon tank, maybe it would be better for me to buy a Condor + a standar (talon) air tank, instead of a TalonSS + a 24" barrel, that way, i would get a lot of shots (i have 2 tanks), and i get to keep the unbeatable power of the Condor! :)

I must say i resent you for answering my questions! (just kidding of course), cause now i can t figure out what to buy, Condor + extra tank, or TalonSS + extra barrel! :)

If you say the condor is fine with a standar air tank, it looks more apealing that the talon ss, cause to be honest, i really dont care (or need) a rifle that fires below 600 fps (i allready have a .22 Gamo CFX, that covers all my needs up to 50 yards).

What whoud i do ??!! :)

Michael

 
At May 05, 2007 8:00 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Michael,

Get the Condor. It's what you want and it's a fine airgun.

B.B.

 
At May 05, 2007 7:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello again BB, just to let you know, ibe decided im getting the Condor (.22 cal of course), plus one of these Micro-Meter spare tanks.
I figure that with this setup, i can fire a few 100+ yards shots with the condor tank, and then, (if i dont feel like pumping), i just slap the micro meter tank, and enjoy over 100 shots at say 600 - 620 fps? using 14.3 pellets at 50 to 60 yard ranges.

And also to thank you again for your input. You really helped me make an informed decision!

Thanks a Lot! :)

 

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