RWS Diana 34 Panther - Part 4
Final report
by B.B. Pelletier
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
JR asked about a shooting bench, and I promised to blog it today, but I forgot that this report was waiting. I'll get to the bench tomorrow.
The jury is back and the verdict is that the RWS Diana 34 Panther is a world-class air rifle and a super value. I'm so glad I had the chance to test this model, because the several Diana 34s I have shot in the past do not do the current rifle justice. It might as well be a completely new gun, and I want to tell you what I think the differences are.
T05 trigger
The more I use it, the more I like the Diana T05 trigger. Its straighter trigger blade gives me more positive control over the release, and the trigger feels as though Diana has refined the release dramatically. It has less creep in the second stage and a crisper break than ever before. Only triggers tuned by Ken Reeves on the older T01 triggers have felt as nice as this one feels right out of the box.
Synthetic stock
I love this new stock. Diana has employed a straight line, so there is no need for a cheekpiece or a Monte Carlo profile. It may look funny to new shooters who are used to the Monte Carlo look, but it harkens back to a time when Winchester put straight-line stocks on their rifles and they fit everybody. There is no difficulty aligning the eye with the scope, because the stock is so straight.
Also, this stock is dead. It does not resonate with each shot like a wood stock. I can't tell if the powerplant is smoother or I'm just feeling the deadness of the stock, but the RWS Diana 34 Panther is a very civil air rifle. It reminds me of the Gamo CF-X, which also has a synthetic stock, so there may be something to it.
Here's what happened
I told you in the last report that I wanted to test the 34 at a longer range, to verify that those tight 20-yard groups would continue. Last Friday, I went to a range where I could get 35 yards. That is only 15 yards farther, but it's the range at which groups start opening up dramatically.
What I didn't tell you before is that I am also testing a new mount that will solve the droop problem for Diana guns. The prototype I have isn't correct yet, and the rifle was shooting six inches low at 35 yards with the scope's elevation cranked all the way up. But I had an ace up my sleeve. The scope on the rifle is a Leapers 3-9x40 with red/green illuminated reticle and mil-dots. My scope is an older one than Pyramyd now carries and it doesn't have the TS platform or the side illumination switch, but it performs just the same. All I had to do was use the fifth dot below the crosshair intersection, and I was right on target...as you can see from the results. I have to take shortcuts like this because I may be testing several different things at the same time.
I settled right into the correct hold, which I'd determined was the rifle on the flat of my open palm just in front of the triggerguard. Yes that makes the gun muzzle-heavy, but I shoot off a bench with my hand resting on a sandbag, so there's no weight to support. If I were shooting from the prone, kneeling, or sitting position, I'd do the same. Offhand, I'd use my knuckles or fingertips a little forward of this point.
The day was getting ugly, with black thunderclouds rolling in fast. I'd been testing other guns earlier, so now time was running out. The wind was starting to kick up in gusts, so I had time for only one quick group at 35 yards, but the gun performed like it had at the shorter range: totally stable and dead-on. Shooting Crosman Premier 7.9-grain pellets, my one and only group measures 0.460." That's really good for a springer at that distance. Had I shot longer I feel confident this would have been representative of all the groups. I cannot remember a time when the first group in a series was also the smallest.
That's what a sub-half-inch group looks like. Shooting one from a breakbarrel at 35 yards is a big deal.
Bottom line
The RWS Diana 34 Panther goes up on the short list of spring guns that I consider best buys.
posted by B.B. Pelletier @ 4:30 AM
65 comments
65 Comments:
bb - this is off topic, but at distances past 35 yds is there any reason why .22 would yield better groups than .177? Setting aside fps, does mass affect stability of flight? What about counteracting the effects of wind? Thanks for a superb blog.
Airdog,
I think that .22 caliber may be superior at some distance, but it is farther than 50 yards because .177 does very well at that range.
Maybe 100 yards and farther.
B.B.
bb,any way you can verify whether the barrel is purposely choked for the panther 34?
thnx
Hi B.B.,
I may have missed the description of the synthetic stock, but how would you describe the feel of it? Is it smooth plastic like a pump Crossman, or is it the rubberized feel of a Gamo stock? Lastly, is it foam filled or hollow from what you experienced?
cheers,
Paul Capello
B.B.--good morning-scott reporting in. At the top of the blog I noticed something about JR and a shooting bench. I bought one at cabela's-thats where you directed me- and have been using it for about 6 months now. Don't want to step on anyone's toes , but if you like I'll be more than happy to give you feed back on the one I bought.--Thanks-Scott
Choked,
Only Diana can release that information. If the barrel is choked, I would think they would tell everyone, but they may not understand the marketing value in that.
B.B.
hi bb
i am a believer in strait line stocks. im a lefty so i can apreciate it. i think it would be beneficial for some companies to start using strait lines more to accomodate more shooters. just curiuos do yyou know what percent of shooters are left eye dominant? i took an archery class a while back and it seemed the class was split 50/50. thanks
Paul,
I probably didn't describe it as fully as I should have. It's smooth like a Crosman stock and dense like it has foam. A very neutral, dead feel.
B.B.
Scott,
Why don't you make your report as a comment to tomorrow's post? I will include a photo of the Cabelas bench for you.
B.B.
Lefty,
I don't know the percentage of people with ledt-eye dominance, so I have asked our resident eye surgeon, Dr. Mirfee Ungier, whether she knows.
B.B.
bb
thanks so much. im sure not many people are put in my position. now im very interested.
lefty
B.B.
I remember as a kid (about 6 years old) that I naturally used a left hand position for bow and gun. My brothers and their friends stopped me and told me to use a right hand position since I am right handed. That was my first indication that I was left eye dominant.
Unfortunately I've been shooting right handed since then. I found out about a half year ago that I am left eye dominant but have been hesitant to try left handed. How hard is it to switch hands?
Thanks,
.22 multi-shot
.22 multi-shot,
For someone like you, shooting right-handed is simply a habit - not what feels right. I am right-eye dominant and I can shoot left-handed with no problem, so you should be able to as well.
B.B.
Hey B.B.,
That's a real nice 5-shot group considering it was the only group and a rush job in building winds. Thanks for that review! I really like the sleek look of the 34 Panther. Your comments about the synthetic stock are compelling since I've already been wanting one, in .22 caliber.
B.B. wrote, "...The prototype I have isn't correct yet, and the rifle was shooting six inches low at 35 yards with the scope's elevation cranked all the way up..."
It's good to hear the Diana/RWS droop mount project has progressed to the testing stage. But, Ouch!
May be I misremember, but 6" low seems worse than what I experienced using a non-compensating mount with my Model 48 (4" low) at that distance.
It's unlikely, but I can't help wondering if the scope stop 'pin' was installed in the wrong end of the mount.
Anyway, what are you permitted to say about the mount, at this point? Does the clamping force and stop 'pin' design appear to be addressing the slippage issue?
Cheers,
GH
GH,
I can't say much about the new mount except that it looks encouraging. Droop correcting is all that remains to be fixed. No, it wasn't installed incorrectly.
Yes, this Panther is a real drooper. Probably the worst I have seen. It really needs the correction, so I'm going to use it as a testbed for the new mount.
The rifle is excellent in all other ways. Yes, I did say the front sight is fragile, but I don't see many people using it.
B.B.
sorry this is a little off topic does anybody know how much weihrauchs .22 cal. weigh.
Weihrauch weight,
I have asked Pyramyd Air.
B.B.
B.B. wrote, "...Droop correcting is all that remains to be fixed..."
Hey, that's great news! I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product.
Thanks for the feedback. I think the Panther will look slick with a long, slim muzzle weight (cocking aide) replacing the front sight.
Cheers,
GH
1/2 inch at 35 yards. Perfect for mini sniper.
How do you know if you have shimmed a scope to the proper level with the droopers? It seems the elevation adjustment will compensate for some droop - but is it better to be in the middle of the elevation adjustment range and shim the rest?
Ozark
B.B.--do all diana break barrel rifles havea sliding link that connects them to the cocking lever-on my 350 I removed the action from the stock- the cocking lever just seemed to have a bit of metal welded in place and popped out of the action as soon as I turned it over-thanks-Scott298---I had happened to come across an old post showing the dismanteling of a break barrel-hence the question
Scott,
The old post showed a Beeman R1, which is made by Weihrauch. Not every manufacturer uses the sliding link. Some connect diretly to the piston. They rely on the stock to keep the link aligned.
B.BN.
weihrauchs -
HW 100k - 7.47lbs
HW 100s - 7.9
" "t - 8.2
etc etc - airgunbuyer.com has the specs
Ozark
Thanks B.B., I'll have to go ahead and try left handed.
Have you found out what happened to the AS392T yet? I did find Pyramyd's hidden page, http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/model.pl?model_id=381. However, Crosman is not showing it on their web site.
.22 multi-shot
BB,
This may be related to issues on straight stocks. Normally, the air cylinder in located under the barrel. In this setup, if we follow the route of the flow of high pressure air during a shot, it seems to execute a U-turn. First, from the air reservoir, to the valve, up the gas port, to the probe, finally behind the pellet pushing it thru the bore towards exit at the muzzle. That is essentially a circuitous u-turn.
In straight stock design like in the AirForce Talon or Condor, the flow is very straightforward from tank-valve-pellet and out to target.
I would like to ask, does this different air flow pattern has any effect on resultant accuracy of our airguns?
Instinctively, I feel that the straight airflow configuration offers a logical advantage over the other.
Besides the Air Force, which other airgun employs this straight tank to barrel config?
A generic diagram on this mechanism for comparison and analysis might help explain the differences.
Thanks a lot sir and please excuse me for a long post.
Dave, the vise man
BB
Pyramyd says of the Beretta Storm
" The smooth, rounded corners of the synthetic stock won't get hung up on clothing. It slides from side to side and easily lifts to the shoulder. Perfect in battle situations!"
I do not think "Perfect in battle situations!" is an appropriate description. Can you see why? I have been shooting since 1968. Am I too concerned about safety?
I wrote to Pyramyd over concern.
On Jul 9, 2007, Sales Team wrote:
Thank you for your interest in our company. The Beretta CX-4 Storm is a BB gun, not an airsoft gun and should not be shot at anyone else as airsoft can be. However, overall great gun!
Thank you,
Alice CSR
Dave, I also noticed that a lot of airguns make the air do a U turn. I don't see how a straight flow would increase accuracy, but it does seem like it would be more efficient.
CX-4 Storm,
Those words didn't come from Pyramyd Air. Those words were written by Beretta. They are sent out to all dealers to use in the descriptions of their guns. If you read the first report I did on the gun, I even took the time to quote other similar words from the Beretta description.
There is no mention of shooting at anyone in the Pyramyd Air description. This is simply describing the gun in an attractive way for potential buyers.
I will mention to Alice that the CX-4 Storm is a pellet rifle, and not a BB gun, but as far as I can see, that's the only thing she got wrong.
B.B.
Ozark,
I though he was asking the weight of Weihrauch pellets.
Weihrauch weight guy - what do you want?
B.B.
.22 multi-shot,
No, I havn't found out about the AS 392T yet. I will get on it now.
Do you want to buy one?
B.B.
Dave,
A straight airflow in a PCP or CO2 gun does make for more efficiency, but not for better accuracy. The amount of gain is small, though probably measurable.
Accuracy is a function of the barrel, primarily. Other factors, like consistency, play a smaller part, but the barrel is the greatest part of the accuracy equation.
B.B.
Thanks BB. I had put the AS392T as a potential future buy, but if it isn't being made any more I'll have to decide while they are still available at a reasonable cost.
.22 multi-shot
.22 multi-shot,
I asked them and when they tell me I'll tell you.
B.B.
After you load the pellet into the barrel of the rifle, do you have to make sure it sits 'tight & square' to make the shot more accurate?
Thanks!
.22 multi-shot,
The word from Crosman is that the AS392T was not put in the 2007 catalog and is now listed as obsolete.
They found one in inventory. If you want one, let me know and I'll try to help you.
Today is July 17. A gun like this will be gone within days.
B.B.
Square and tight,
To the best of your ability, yes. That's not a problem with Premier lites.
B.B.
B.B.
I was afraid of that (AS392T discontinued). Unfortunately, as much as I would like to, this is not a good time for me to pick one up. Our vehicle was just diagnosed as needing a transmission rebuild!
Thanks for your help!
.22 multi-shot
What was the manufacturing date on the 34 panther you tested and believed the barrel was possibly choked. I am looking at a new 34 panther but the date stamp reflects 04 06. Maybe an older version.
The Panther I tested is also stamped 04 06.
Small world.
B.B.
According to your 33/35 yard groups - Panther is more accurate than Gamo CF-X? Which one of them you reccomend to buy?
Chris,
I wondered when someone would spot that. I was as surprised as you when I read it.
The Panther is a super-good valve except for the barrel droop problem that the scope mount has to correct.
If you are okay with the current way of compensating for droop, get the Panther.
B.B.
Dear Sir,
New to air rifles, save my Red Riders and Crossmans. Father brought his 34 (wood) purchased last year to me to rid us of some pest.
To the point, he gave me a 3x9 and weaver rings to mount on it. Can I buy a stop and be in business? If so, which one would best fit. If I need a B2 one piece, just let me know and which one.
All the Best,
Francis Marion
Francis,
The ONLY way to stop a scope mount from moving on any Diana air rifle is to use a one-piece mount and hang the vertical scope stop pin in front of the mount base on the rifle.
B.B.
Mr. BB,
Your profile says "there are no stupid questions" so here goes...
Regarding scope slippage on the RWS 34's:
Why would you not simply take the mounting plate off and bore a stop hole ALL the way through. In this way, you could position it where you need it for fitting your eye and it would be much deeper. It should offer just as much surface area for the stop pin as hanging it off the front would.
I probably have missed something obvious as I am new to this. Also, I have access to nice drill presses and metal working equip. Maybe that is the limitation for many.
What do you think?
Regards,
Francis Marion
francis,
Because there is a coiled steel mainspring inside that thin metal tube! The reason Diana puts a built-up scope mount on the rifle is because there isn't enough metal to machine dovetails into. There's not enough room to hold a stop pin well, either.
B.B.
B.B.,
I think you misunderstand me. I am not going to drill into the tube, even I can see the disaster there.
I would TAKE OFF the base and drill through ONLY it, then remount it with locktite. The new hole should offer as much metal surface area for a stop pin as the front would. No?
If you are worried about the stop pin touching the tube itself, you could put a piece of black tape under the hole as a small "spacer", but it would contact the tube hanging off the front too. No?
Again, I might misunderstand myself.
What do you thinK?
Much Obliged,
Francis Marion
B.B.,
I think you misunderstand me. I am not going to drill into the tube, even I can see the disaster there.
I would TAKE OFF the base and drill through ONLY it, then remount it with locktite. The new hole should offer as much metal surface area for a stop pin as the front would. No?
If you are worried about the stop pin touching the tube itself, you could put a piece of black tape under the hole as a small "spacer", but it would contact the tube hanging off the front too. No?
Again, I might misunderstand myself.
What do you thinK?
Much Obliged,
Francis Marion
Francis,
That might work.
B.B.
B.B.,
Thanks for all your help. It is appreciated.
Based on my reading, I would suspect you would recommend adjustable rings like B2 for this 34 rather than the weavers my dad left me... correct?
Some quick hitters on that point:
1- Based on my retapping the mounting base for the stop pin as described above, do I still need a one piece B2, or does it matter?
2- I assume the ring height is just to accomodate the scope rec diameter like a normal rifle right, in which case you want as short as you can get away with. Is that right or is there an advantage to going taller?
3- Will Pyramyd print "school supplies" on my receipt so my wife won't know what I am spending on this air gun verses a professional exterminator?
Last, if you are interested, I can email you pics of the mods I do to the mounting base and the final product if it would help the bloggers.
Many for putting up with this newbie,
Francis Marion
Francis,
The Weavers won't fit a Diana scope base without an adaptor, so they are out from the start.
There is no advantage to a higher scope. It introduces greater cant error, so lower is better.
If you have a good deep hole for a stop pin, two-piece rings/mounts are always preferred over one-piece, because of far greater mounting flexibility.
The wife we leave to you, but remember that wives are good people to have around.
B.B.
I recently bought a RWS Panther 34 .177 with scope . I've been reading that if you use the screw at beginning of the rail as a scope stop it will shear off (I had this happen on my .22 Beeman so I can believe it). I also read that the ONLY solution is to buy a one piece mount and hang the pin at the ramp, hence the mount is half way off the rail. After more research I found RWS makes a scope stop. My question is should I buy the RWS one piece mount with pin or the scope stop (does it even fit in the screw hole?)I am also not sure if the screw on the scope stop goes into the whole where the screw is now or if it just clamps onto the rail like the mount. Thanks
MMalvin
MMalvin ,
This is a well-known flaw with RWS Diana air rifles. The only solution is to hang the scope stop pin in front of the scope base on the rifle. Also be prepared to pout many thousandths of an inch of elevation on the rear ring of the mount, because RWS Diana barrels have a lot of droop.
Clamp the one-piece mount to the rifle and hang the vertical scope stop pin IN FRONT of the rifle's base. The mount will not be halfway off the base. At the most it will be off by 20 percent.
B.B.
Hi,
I had ordered this RWS Panther before reading this review. I not only returned the rifle over the scope B.S. but I will not ever buy this brand regardless the quality of the rest of the gun. I will buy Walther or Webly & Scott Ltd. in a springer or Benji in a PCP gun. I've ruled out CO2 for a few reasons but mainly the need to keep buying and installing CO2 ..leaks, etc. Thank you for this review. The gun has many good points but the scope and unusualy excessive barrel droop makes it a total loser to me. The Game CFX? A sales rep at Pyramid told me to avoid that gun for a .22 because it was designed as a .177 originaly and it wasn't changed enough with the .22 barrel to acomidate the new caliber properly ...said it had very inconsistant FPS rates in .22 and conversly was outstanding in the .177 caliber.
I have my desire set on the upcoming Walther Flacon Hunter Edition in .22. It looks very promising and the price looks really good especialy with that scope. B.B. what are your expectations for the Walther Falcon Hunter Edition?
Respectfully,
HedgeHocker
HedgeHocker ,
I have seen and held the Walther Falcon Hunter at the SHOT Show. It looks to be very well made and is certainly a rifle I hope to test soon. I think I will test it in .25 caliber, only because it is available, but the .22 should be just as nice.
B.B.
Hi BB,
Just got a Panther in .22 cal. installed scope with 2 piece rings, after 400+ shots, the scope and rings stayed put. The reason for the 2 piece rings is as BB had said was for mounting flexibility.
Here's how I did it; 1st-replace the stop pin with same diameter as
the shallow stop hole. 2nd-drill a hole through the other ring and drop a stop pin same as the 1st.
To Francis, it's almost imposible to remove the Diana base to drill the hole through,if you have a Diana you will know what I'm talking about.
As to the "droop" I think Diana made the droop to simplify POA to POI as near as possible with or without scope thus eliminating the 2" and 1.5" low sighting in thing..
Just my opinion & experience, not saying I'm right.
Hank
BB
Any other rifles out there in 22 cal that comes close to this rifle with the same trigger feel and adjustments? I read everything and that barrel droop makes me scared unless it can be set up correctly.
I like the 34 Panther but I want the barrel on the Panther Pro (no sights better grip when cocking) if it comes on a 22 cal. Do they make Panther pro in 22 cal?
Thank you once again
Gino
Gino,
The Panther Pro is brand new, and RWS USA has imported the .177 first. It will be available in .22 later.
Don't worry about the scope mounting problem. In Jun e there will be a new base that solves that forever.
B.B.
BrianAG618: I have been reading this article on the Diana RWS 34 Panther, and where everyone is either complaing about the gun with it's so called scope/barrel drop or how to mount a scope correctly. I am a trained HIGH POWERED Live Ammo Shooter, and the Rws 34 Panther is only the 2nd Air Rifle I have ever owned. The first was a Sheridan "BLUE STREAK" 5m/m Cal, which I purchesed New in the mid 1960's (currently being re-worked by Pyramya Air after 40+ years of use)and the 2nd Air Rifle was purchesed on the recomendation of one of Pyramyd Air Sales reps (Paul). The only change I made in his recomendation was the scope, and I went with the Leapers 3-9X32 AO scope because it was a scope I have used in the past. To stop the scope creep as you folks call it, I mounted a GAMO SCOPE STOP on the rear of the scope mount base, again with the reps advise, and to put it simply, there is NO SCOPE CREEP. This RWS 34 has much better feel and control as well as better balance, then most of the long range, high powered weapons I have fired, and I am more then happy that I went with the sales rep's recomandation (Paul). Out of the box with only a few clicks on the Rear Micrometer Sight it was hitting dead ctr at 35/ 40 yards. I then sighted in the scope using a Laser Bore Sighter, and again with only a few clicks she was hitting dead ctr at the same range, most of the time. Yes it took some getting use to, and as I was trained I fired, lets just say many rounds to get the feel of the equipment, I found that to hit dead ctr, again as trained, I had to use the MIL DOTS, do not always depend on just the Cross Hairs, I ended up with tight groups on my new set up (June 2008)by simply raising the scope by 1 MIL DOT and not depending on the Cross Hairs them selves. It takes many hours of shooting, and I mean 8+ hours a day to perfect the skills of scope shooting. (Read the book Marine Snipper, and any and all information you can find on this shooter, the book is based on, and YES IT IS A TRUE STORY)and you will understand the requirements and disapline of becoming a a National CUP Winner,(1,000 yards) Scope shooter/ Marine Snipper. To stop scope creep use a SCOPE STOP, to prevent barrel drop, learn how to use your equipment properly. And with that note, I have read the specs on the New Scope Elevation Compensator Mount MNT-DN034 (for the RWS Panther 34 Rifle) that both Pyramyd Air and Leapers are working on, I find it a very interesting way to help mount a scope, and correct a lot of scope shooting mistakes. I can not wate to get my hands on one of these mounts and try it out myself, but again it is only another tool to help a shooter, shot better, the real tool is to know your equipment, what it can and can not do, and make the needed corrections, and most of all, as I was told when I was taught how to shoot, pratice, pratice and more pratice (as with every thing in life). Your equipment must become part of you and every thing you do with it must be 2nd nature to you, only to breathing. Sorry I went on, but after reading these comments, I had to say some thing. As I stated read the book I mentioned, it is a thru story, "Carlos" is a real person (hero), and even to this day, no one has ever broken his record, yes this man was half crazy, you have to be to mount a scope on a 50 Cal, Machine Gun just to be able to hit your target at slightly over 2,000 yards, yes I said, a scope on a 50, and a record shot at just over 2,000 yards, with all hand me down parts and equipment that he used at the time. And all your questions about shooting with a scope, be it a high power live ammo weapon, or whats getting to be high powered air guns, the rules of shooting remain the same, with adjustments made for the only real thing that accounts for each and every shot, the SHOOTER THEMSELFS. Thats it I said my piece, so please quit shooting the messenger, he is only giving you his best advise from his years of experance.
B.B.---
Hello. I am a novice to airgunning and I feel that, according to it's description on pyramydair.com, and your blog, that the RWS 34 Panther would be a good gun for me. I am hopefully going to buy it soon, and I was wondering
A)Should I get a barrel cleaner, like you used, and lubricant?
B)What pellets do you reccomend?
Thanks,
Newshooter
Newshooter,
Which caliber rifle will you get? I can't recommend pellets without that.
You can clean the barrel with JB Bore Compound if you like, but it also takes a solid cleaning rod and a new brass brush. Or you can just shoot the gun 500 times and it will smooth out on its own.
You don't need any lubricant for this rifle when it's new. However in a year or two a drop of silicone chamber oil down the transfer port would be good.
B.B.
BB---
I was thinking of getting the .177 caliber Panther.
Thanks,
Newshooter
Newshooter,
Then definitely get Crosman premier 7.9-grain pellets. Premier hollowpoints will also work well.
B.B.
hey b.b. Cristobal here.
I might be asking a really tough question, but which gun has better accuracy, the rws 34 panther, or the gamo cfx? I was gonna ask in your cfx blog, but i decided to ask here. Not really much into the trigger of the cfx (got the grtiii mod for another gun, but don't have the cfx) and how different each gun is in the exterior and the stocks, though both synthetic. But which gun is accurately better? you can also put in both the .177 and .22 cal.s in the rws 34 against the cfx, as it is (well you know) only .177. or maybe in odd chances, both guns are closely accurate to each other? ok, thanks.
Cristobal,
Both rifles are equivalent, but perhaps the 34 is slightly better. However, being a breakbarrel, it requires a better hold to be accurate.
I've only tested the 34 in .177, but I would assume the .22 would be just as accurate.
The CF-X in .177 is great, but in .22 it doesn't generate as much power as advertised.
B.B.
ok, and wow, I just learned a new trick, a better hold for better accuracy! and thanks for the quick reply, I know i can count on you all the time for questions. thanks a lot!
Post a Comment
<< Home