Silver Eagle pellets for speed, gas springs for lots of guns & the new P38 airsoft gun by Tom Gaylord from Pyramyd Air” /> Silver Eagle pellets for speed, gas springs for lots of guns & the new P38 airsoft gun, airguns report post” />

Friday, December 28, 2007

Cleanup day:
Silver Eagle pellets for speed, gas springs for lots of guns & the new P38 airsoft gun

by B.B. Pelletier

I had planned to share the accuracy test for the pump-assist Benjamin 392 today, but it's been postponed for a while. The design is being tweaked with a few improvements, and Pyramyd Air has deactivated the product for the time being. When it's available again, I'll announce it and test it with the new intermount.

Since I had some time on my hands, I thought I'd use it to clean up a little business. Buddy wanted me to try the Benjamin Super Streak with Crosman Silver Eagle lead-free pellets. He says he's gotten over 1,500 f.p.s. from his Gamo Hunter Extreme, and he wanted to know what the Super Streak might do with them.

You may remember that 5-grain Gamo Raptors averaged 1319 f.p.s. when I tested this rifle. With Silver Eagle wadcutters that weigh 5.2 grains, the velocity averages 1340 f.p.s., with a high of 1,367 and a low of 1310. That's too broad a spread to expect good accuracy at long range, but under 30 yards they should be fine.

The lighter 4.8-grain Silver Eagle hollowpoints averaged 1411 f.p.s. with a spread from 1310 to 1454. I can see where Benjamin's claim of 1500 f.p.s. comes from now. Of course, a 144 f.p.s. extreme spread is too vast to expect accuracy, though the majority of the shots were above 1400 f.p.s. Maybe with careful sorting by weight the rifle would shoot them well. Anyway, Buddy, now you know.

And we now know that Crosman has the fastest metal pellets on the market. They boosted the velocity of the Super Streak by 90 f.p.s., so if it's braggin' rights you're looking for, here they are.

Next subject - gas springs
You've followed my reports about the gas springs and now many of you want them for your own rifles. Here is a list of air rifles that will accept the gas spring that fits the Gamo Whisper:

GAMO:
Big Cat
Whisper
CFX
Carbine Sport
Hunter 440
Hunter 890
Hunter Elite
Hunter Extreme
Hunter Pro
Hunter Sport
Shadow (all)
Varmint Hunter
Viper
Viper Express
Nitro 17
Recon
Delta (may fit with adjustments)


CROSMAN:
Phantom
Quest 1000
Quest 800 (may also fit with some adjustments)

BENJAMIN:
Legacy 1000

Additionally, there's another gas spring for:

WEBLEY:
Patriot (Beeman Kodiak)

Lastly...a new airsoft gun
Airsoft enthusiasts have learned to be patient on this blog, because I don't devote a lot of time to them. But now I have something new to announce. The Walther P38 green gas pistol will be here in January, and I have an advance copy to test for you. I'll try to get to it next week. I used to own a 9mm P38, and this new pistol looks to be made better than that one, though anyone who has ever owned a sheetmetal wartime P38 can tell you that's not hard to do.


Walther P38 airsoft pistol operates on green gas and looks well built.

89 Comments:

At December 28, 2007 6:51 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi BB,

Overall, how would you rank these in .25 cal. (first, second, third
choice), and on what basis? The choices are Career Infinity, Sumatra 2500, Career III 707.

Thanks
Tedd

 
At December 28, 2007 7:07 AM, Anonymous Vince said...

FYI (but as you probably know) this list isn't quite complete. There's a number of rifles that share the same powerplant as these rifles that aren't listed.

 
At December 28, 2007 8:20 AM, Anonymous Dr. G. said...

B.B.
If I am shooting my Condor .25 at 10 yards at 730 fps and then bump it up to 950 fps, the pellets show no apparent drop. Same thing at 30 yards, where I can see AT MOST a 1/4" drop, which is too small a distance to make any difference for hunting. So, when you write about accuracy and fps spreads (which you frequently refer to), I assume that as long as the pellets are travelling between 730-1030 fps and are being shot under 30 yards (as you specified in today's article), any fps spread naturally occuring from even the most variable air rifle will not be a factor in accuracy (viz., reliablility of pellet placement), especially for hunting. . . . . On a separate note, a big X-Mas/New Year's thank you for introducing me to the effectiveness of Perfect Rounds (lead) over metall bbs in the Drozd, for improved accuracy as well as for increased energy. At 10 yards, these (as opposed to the Gamo lead balls, which jammed frequently) improve accuracy by about 1" (far fewer fliers) and, at 8.4 vs. 5.3 grains, definitely hit harder and bounce back far less. Yes, I must wear eye protection anyway. - Dr. G.

 
At December 28, 2007 8:24 AM, Anonymous TeflonTron said...

We should take a Powerful PCP and test the Raptors and their ilk. I think that that would be interesting, as even the most powerful Springer is relatively weak compared to Condors, BAMs, Careers etc, and I know that PCPs gain power with heavier pellets rather than light, but there is so much air on tap, and a 24" barrel etc is a wonderful head-start.

 
At December 28, 2007 8:25 AM, Anonymous Scottdog said...

Hi B.B
I have a Gamo 890.Its on your list for the gas spring conversion but I cant find the link that shows details and cost.Is there one?
Thanks
Scottdog

 
At December 28, 2007 8:27 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see what all the hoopla is about ultra-high velocity air guns. If I want to go over 1000fps, I'll use a .22 long rifle. I won't say that there isn't any need for them though. I guess people just wanting something that powerful will always justify the product.
I'm pretty sure a company will come along with pellets that resemble bullets and push velocity even further, which is something that could possibly blur the line between firearms and air guns to the BATF.

At this point in my life, I'm most concerned with accuracy and enjoyment. I just ordered a Daisy 747 and a Daisy 953 to hone my skills with, and from everything I've read about them, they appear to be good, solid deals.

Sorry to blab on and on. Great blog BB. I read this every day that I can and feel that you truly have something very special here.

Al

 
At December 28, 2007 8:46 AM, Anonymous Stabbs said...

Sorry to go totally off topic again. Does anybody know if the bam b-30 has the same scope rail problems as its Diana 54 counterpart?

 
At December 28, 2007 9:07 AM, Anonymous PA Gunner said...

so i can convert my gamoVE to gas spring? oh well, thats not gonna fix it.
the next thing im gona spend big b ucks on in the airgun world is a Webley Patriot with gas spring.

 
At December 28, 2007 10:15 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

TeflonTron,

I'm thinking the same thing. I have a 25-inch Weihrauch barrel for a Condor, so we should see some high velocities.

B.B.

 
At December 28, 2007 10:18 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Scottdog,

You are way ahead of the power curve. Pyramyd hasn't even decided on a plan for these other rifles yet. When they do I'll let everyone know.

The price should be the same relative increase as the Whisper.

B.B.

 
At December 28, 2007 10:19 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Al,

I'm with you. When velocity goes much above 900 f.p.s., I lose interest. But many shooters are interested, which is why I report them.

B.B.

 
At December 28, 2007 10:59 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Tedd,

I haven't shot the Infinity in .25 caliber. I found the Career 707 and the Sumatra to be equally accurate, at about a 1.5" at 50 yards level. The .22 caliber rifles from both makers have always out-shot the .25s by a considerable margin. I believe that's because .22 pellets are made better than .25s.

B.B.

 
At December 28, 2007 11:00 AM, Blogger andreas said...

B.B.

Regarding falcons. Are all the FN19 repeating models the same mechanism? They have FN19HS or FN19RS etc etc... are the only differences in stock appearance?

I have contacted the company but they still haven't replied.

Also, what kind of groups can I expect? - What were you getting with your old FN19 ?

Thanks a lot

 
At December 28, 2007 11:00 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Vince,

I held back a number of guns from the list I published. The real list is more than double what you see, but there are small things that need to be done to make it work. I didn't want to get into that yet.

B.B.

 
At December 28, 2007 11:11 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Andreas,

Loading mechanisms have changed a lot over the years, so I cannot say with certainty that all
repeating mechanisms are identical. If they were created at the same time they probably are, because manufacturers try for commonality as much as possible.

The FN19 is one of the most accurate airguns I ever tested, though I tested a single-shot, not a repeater. Look for groups of less than one-half-inch at 50 yards.

B.B.

 
At December 28, 2007 11:24 AM, Anonymous nate in mass said...

BB,
Thanks for even spending time with airsoft. I know many people dont like it, but it is a type of airgun nodoubt. When you test the P38 could you shoot some 10 meter groups? Im curious to see how this stacks up against some bb pistols.

Nate in Mass

 
At December 28, 2007 11:31 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Nate,

Will do.

B.B.

 
At December 28, 2007 12:20 PM, Blogger SquirrelKiller said...

Stabbs,

Drop pin holes are deeper on the Bam Scope rail. From my perspective and recent experience, you should be able to attach a reliable/stable scope-mount with no problems.

 
At December 28, 2007 12:38 PM, Anonymous Buddy said...

Thanks for the test BB. I really appreciate it, You're a fine fellow, boy there sure was a lot of spread, wonder why as you had some really tight spreads using the heavier 8.4 exacts. Well anyway you did what I ask and the results were'nt exactly what I was exspecting, but what the heck. You really don't have to do the accuracy test on my part, with that big a spread I don't see how it could be as good as the others. Thanks a bunch. Buddy

 
At December 28, 2007 12:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB (or anyone): I grew up with single-action revolvers and would love to have one in AirSoft. Problem is, when I type in single-action, I get tons of AirSoft guns that are single-action springers (IOW, just about every AS gun ever made). Does anyone know of an AS SA Colt Army etc.?

Thanks,

--Joe B

 
At December 28, 2007 12:53 PM, Anonymous Buddy said...

Hi again BB. , Boy I was was glad to see my rifles on the list for gas springs, now could you tell me when and where I can get them installed and about how much dough are we talking about. I think I would do my shadow sport first as it is the one with the Twang and Buzz , for some reason my 890 is very quite. Thanks again for some great work. Buddy

 
At December 28, 2007 1:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB,

thanks for the reply. if we make it .22 instead of .25, then how would you rank the Career Infinity with the Sumatra 2500 and Career III 707?

Thanks again.
Tedd

 
At December 28, 2007 1:23 PM, Anonymous nate in mass said...

Joe B
This isnt single action but it can be fired that way. There arnt many airsoft revolvers to start with and even less that arnt spring.

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/gun/1312

Nate in Mass

 
At December 28, 2007 1:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

when any gun is modified to the gas spring system do they all become the "same" gun?

do they all now perform at "x" velocity? rendering the only differences in the quality of the gun builder?

also- is there a reason why the conversion fits so man guns? were they originally very similar inside to start with? or just similar size?

just makes me curious if so many brands can take the same mod- were they similar inside to begin with?

thanks

 
At December 28, 2007 2:11 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Squirrelkiller

You're the man. Thanks for the information on the B30 trigger. I think I would rather have a light trigger than a long, creepy one, but the B30 sounds like enough of a compromise. The thrifty man's 48 is just exactly what I want. I cannot wait to get one.

Matt61

 
At December 28, 2007 2:26 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

JoeB,

I'm a single action fan, as well. I was a stunt gunfighter for a western amusement park in San Jose when I was in college, and I wore an Arvo Ojala buscadero rig and carried a 7-3/4" SAA in .45 Colt (we called it Long Colt in those days). I've had at least five SAAs, plus a Remington 1875 and a Bisley.

The 1911 came along later, though I do favor it for increased capacity and rapid firing.

B.B.

 
At December 28, 2007 2:27 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Buddy,

Pyramyd Air hasn't made any decisions yet about how they will deal with the springs. I hope to hear from them soon.

B.B.

 
At December 28, 2007 2:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.

Thanks for the reply about the Makarov. I looked at the blog posting which I vaguely remember reading before. No need for any in-depth report about the firearm. My main issue is how I seem to be a victim of Cold War propaganda where the Russians were bumblers who could only produce low quality copies of other people's technology. That doesn't seem to be the case at all. Anything you care to say generally about this weapon's accuracy, reliability whenever you feel like it would be welcome.

As the year winds down, I want to say a special thank you for the blog (and to all bloggers). Six months ago, I would never have believed that my place would look like I'm mobilizing for Iwo Jima with my guns and boxes of ammo. Even after stumbling across this sport, it can remain no more than mysterious guns behind glass cases or blog comments like: "I love to hide in the bushys and shoot my friends in the head. It's so much fun" [airsoft]. And while Pyramidair is a great service, one would hardly know what to make of the selection without knowledge. Now, this sport seems endlessly interesting.

I should say too that I cannot believe the output in this blog. I can see being a columnist with all of the daily news to draw on but I wouldn't have expected good daily articles about airguns. It speaks to the depth of this sport, but there's a lot of artistry here too. Anyway, I believe this is as much fun as I've ever had.

Happy New Year to all and looking forward to '08.

Matt61

 
At December 28, 2007 2:34 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Tedd,

The 707 is the best, followed by the Sumatra. I don't have experience with the Infinity, but I will soon.

Sometimes there are individual Sumatras that are more accurate than a 707, but I have found that to be rare.

B.B.

 
At December 28, 2007 2:36 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Gas spring,

They weren't similar - they were close to identical. Just like Camaros and Firebirds used to be. They are all very closely related.

B.B.

 
At December 28, 2007 3:12 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Matt61,

I have the time so what about right now? A friend turned me on to Russian (it was Soviet then) gun design with the SKS. It looked like crap but my East German rifle was a wonderful plinker. This was back in the early 1970s, before you could get 7.62X39mm ammo cheap.

My second gun was a Chinese copy of the Tokarev pistol. It was a VietNam liberated gun and a bit rough on the outside, but clean and sharp inside. Still, I thought it was very crude and undesirable.

I only got the Makarov 9mm a couple of years ago, but had I known what a wonderful pistol it was I would have bought one years ago. I don't even reload for it. I just shoot cheap Russian ammo.

It's as accurate as I am and it is as smooth as any Colt revolver ever was (excepting the Python). I can double-tap a human torso at 20 feet by instinct alone, which is all I want from a defense handgun. But if I back up to 25 yards, the Mak will hold 6-inch groups offhand, and they are centered on the bull!

My gun is Bulgarian, which I hear is one of the better ones. Apparently the list goes Russian (the best), East German (a close second), Bulgarian (a close third) and everyone else. You will pay a hefty premium for East German and Russian, while Bulgarian is still quite affordable. There is very low recoil (like a .38 Special loaded with midrange wadcutters) and the single action trigger pull is quite nice.

Go here for a nice Makarov website:

http://www.makarov.com/

B.B.

 
At December 28, 2007 3:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello,

I've all but made up my mind on my first PCP. I'm pretty sure it's going to be the Air Arms S410 ERB Sidelever in .22.

Now I have to decide what scope to get for it. Leapers are tempting because of the price, but I want to make sure I get a scope that can realize the full potential of the S410.

Is there a scope you can recommend?

In the real world will I be able to tell the difference between a Leapers and Elite 3200 or an MTC Viper?

I would like parallax to be adjustable down to 10 yards.

Thanks,

Marc

 
At December 28, 2007 4:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B,

I noticed the Gamo Recon on the list for being gas spring compatible. The one we have shoots 7.9 Crosman Premiers at a consistent 510-515 fps. Will the gas spring in the recon deliver velocity more like we've seen in the Whisper conversion?

The Other Alan

 
At December 28, 2007 4:38 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.

Thanks so much for the info about the Makarov. So, the Russians do it again. A lot of their pistol shooting techniques (which favor one hand) that I saw seemed based on the lighter 9mm caliber. Interesting.

Matt61

 
At December 28, 2007 4:44 PM, Blogger pestbgone said...

dr g, Re: velocity and accuracy.
I am confused. You state that the difference in POI for your Condor at 30 yds is only .25" for velocities of 730 and 950 fps, a 220fps spread. Ballistics tables (and field experience) show a POI difference of approx 1.3" with that velocity spread, if the scope zero is not touched. Even a velocity spread of 50fps (730 and 780) will give an approximate .41 POI difference.
All these figures can vary significantly depending on zero range, BC, and scope height, but your .25" figure seems to defy physics.
Pestbgone

 
At December 28, 2007 4:58 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Marc,

Don't think for a moment that the price of the scope is indicative of the quality. That said, Bushnell has maintained good quality in their finer line of scopes.

I thinks you could not see a difference between the Leapers 8-32, but my eyes are not as discerning as many peoples', do don't go by me.

I say get the scope you feel best buying, because you are the one who has to be satisfied.

B.B.

 
At December 28, 2007 5:05 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Other Alan,

The gas spring has to be altered to work on the Recon. The stroke will be less, so I don't think the velocity will increase that much.

B.B.

 
At December 28, 2007 5:29 PM, Anonymous dragonslayer said...

BB. do you think Crow mags. in my RWS 460 @ 985-1000 fps. is too fast?? Acuracy seems to be great! (TO 30 yds.) Cros. prem. hp. at 1050 also were pretty acurate but I know you say that is way too fast & Im shure Ive LEADED the brl. What do you think of 8.8 crow mags. at nearly 1000 fps??? Will spick & span brl. monyana a.m. & re test crws.!Thanks to all who participate w/ this blog!!! Tim in S.C.

 
At December 28, 2007 5:58 PM, Blogger DragonSlayer said...

BB. report back on my latest "BACK YARD REDNECK TUNE" ( packing regular grease around mainspring of Gamo Nitro)I must recant my initial rave reviews,,vel. has dropped back from 750 to where it was at before to 710 or so. After about 100 shots.Guess I cant call myself "TIM DA TUNA" (YET!!) Will build spring comp. & track down the ever ELUSIVE BLACK GREASE!!! P.S. 22 Multi did you get your new Chrony yet??/Cyberskin; thank you for responce to my NEED for black grease ,,,net 54 yes Im member SOOOO mutch spam!!Tim in S.C.

 
At December 28, 2007 6:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So if the ram fits shadows how difficult would it be to install it in my shadow? People have told me that I can change the spring in my shadow by hand without a compressor, will this be the same in swapping out my OE spring with the ram?

Robert 1250

 
At December 28, 2007 6:42 PM, Anonymous sumo said...

BB,

i have am not able to see the photo of the words to type in the word verification on my mac computer. I am on my dell as i write this.

ANY IDEAS???

-sumo

 
At December 28, 2007 6:55 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.

Hello again,
I sent back the rws 350 mag combo and ordered an rws dianna 48. That thing is sweeeet.. It cocks so smooth and its quieter. It sounds more solid, like a rimfire 22. It doesnt have that springy rubbery sound. However it does have the scope mount issues as well. I dont mean to beat a dead horse to death but, Is there any way to remove that dovetail that is on the rifle? If so is it possible given the way the rifle is made to drill and tap the top or the reciever to accept some leupold or redfield mounts? I have been looking on the net for tech drawings and disassembly for the dianna 48 with no avail.

Thanks in advance,
Jim in KY

 
At December 28, 2007 7:08 PM, Anonymous Steve said...

Jim in KY - There is a myth floating about to the effect 'no mount will hold on the Diana rail'. Not true. Diana rails have no 'issues' a BKL 260 D7 won't cure. It will not move, and has the 30 MOA 'droop' compansation built in.

 
At December 28, 2007 9:38 PM, Blogger BobC said...

BB,

Have you read or looked at A book titled "The World Encyclopedia of Rifles and Machine Guns" Authored by Will Flowler and Patrick Sweeney? I think You would enjoy it very much.

I have two of them (Hard copies). And would very much like to send you one. If you could E-mail me and let me know how to get it to you , I will gladly send you A Copy.

 
At December 28, 2007 11:30 PM, Anonymous Dr. G. said...

PESTBGONE,
I should have stated that the velocities I mentioned are at 10 yards (simply a habit, I chrony always at 10 yards, it feels a bit safer with less chance of being hit by richochet). That might have caused confusion. Your field experience shooting the same pellet at these speeds (at 10 yards from muzzle) shows around a 1.3" POI difference at 25-30 yards? I would be very surprised, as I repeatedly have gotten the results I wrote, which is why I emailed BB (to confirm that a 200 fps spread is not practically significant for hunting accuracy under 30 yards). - Dr. G

 
At December 29, 2007 2:24 AM, Anonymous Buddy said...

Thanks for the reply BB., sure do enjoy all the info you give us guys and ladies too. The JSB 8.4 exacts didn't come in yesterday at Pyramyd like they were suppose to , so I guess I'll have to wait to see what they do in my gun, but I'm going to try the crosman preimer 7.9g Sunday, I'll let you know how that works out also going to try to see what kind of accuracy serveral pellets give. Oh almost forgot, how's that new camera working out? Happy New Year Hope 08 bring more wonderfully exciting Blogs and comments. Buddy

 
At December 29, 2007 6:52 AM, Blogger pestbgone said...

Dr G,
I don't have an answer, except that maybe your Condor reacts differently (muzzle rise, etc?) at different power levels to disguise the pellet drop. The formula for the distance a falling object drops is d=(g/2)x t^2. Converting to inch units and simplifying, pellet drop in inches =192 x TimeOfFlight x TOF. Assuming no lose of pellet velocity (just to keep the calcs simple), TOF for 30 yds at 950fps is .095 sec, so the calculated drop is 1.73". At 750fps, TOF is .120 sec and 2.76" drop, a difference of 1.03".
I don't doubt your measured results that show only a .25" difference, but I think they suggest that there are other unknown factors affecting the pellet's fight. Just something else that keeps this hobby interesting and unpredictable. LOL.
Pestbgone

 
At December 29, 2007 8:19 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Sumo,

The problem of seeing the letters for verification is probably due to the browser you use. I use Safari and it works every time. Firefox works well, too. But Explorer hasn't kept pace on Macs (which I use exclusively), so that could be a problem.

B.B.

 
At December 29, 2007 9:59 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Dragon Slayer,

I think velocities much more that 900 f.p.s. are a waste. However, if you are getting good accuracy, don't listen to me. Keep shooting.

You may have to clean the bore, though.

B.B.

 
At December 29, 2007 10:01 AM, Anonymous Vince said...

BB, you've probably mentioned this before - but can (cheaper) scopes get inconsistent near their extremes of adjustment? I'm talking within 1/2 to 1 turn of the maximum adjustment. Specifically, the scope is a 3-9x40 Crosman that cam on a Sierra Pro.

 
At December 29, 2007 10:03 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Robert 1250,

The problem is that Pyramyd isn't selling gas spring units by themselves. They are keeping them for their own installations.

B.B.

 
At December 29, 2007 10:14 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Jim in KY,

I assume you have not read my description of how to mount a scope to a Diana spring gun. Here is a link to one place where I describe how to do it. As far as I know this is the only way to mount a scope securely to a Diana.

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2007/06/rws-diana-34-panther-part-2.html

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2006/11/rws-diana-54-part-3.html

I tested BKL scope mounts, which work by clamping pressure alone, when they first came out and showed that they all do move with recoil. They move on lightly recoiling rifles as well as more powerful guns like Dianas. That's why I developed the fix to mount scopes, and it's also why I am now developing a better way of mounting scopes to Diana spring guns. That new way should be available for sale in 2008.

B.B.

 
At December 29, 2007 10:25 AM, Blogger pestbgone said...

B.B.,
.25 caliber pellets--
Are you hearing more interest in .25 cal guns these days? You've mentioned a general lack of "accurate" .25 pellets, and I see that Crosman Premiers and JSB are not in Pyramyd's list of .25 pellets. Are these just not available, and if so, is there any chance of that changing?
Thanks,
Pestbgone

 
At December 29, 2007 10:33 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

BobC,

Thank you for your generous offer. No, I have not seen this book, but I do have several books by Sweeney. He's a favorite gun author of mine.

B.B.

 
At December 29, 2007 10:54 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Buddy,

The new camera works just fine. I still have to learn how it works, though, as I'm more familiar with my big camera.

B.B.

 
At December 29, 2007 11:00 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Vince,

Well, Leupold scopes get inconsistent that close to the maximum, so I guess cheap scopes do, too. You are at the point where the erector tube is floating and therefore it moves.

B.B.

 
At December 29, 2007 11:02 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Pestbgone,

I have been after Crosman to make a .25-caliber Premier since the mid '90s. They smile and say they'll think about it.

JSB is in Europe, where .25 caliber doesn't exist. It's a wonder he makes .22s.

B.B.

 
At December 29, 2007 11:15 AM, Blogger pestbgone said...

B.B.,
Darn, that's what I was afraid you were going to say about the .25 pellets. Goes back to your blog the other day of manufacturer's not being very responsive to the customer's needs. Seems like a missed opportunity.
Thanks,
Pestbgone

 
At December 29, 2007 7:09 PM, Blogger DragonSlayer said...

BB, wont go against your advice, so will try Kodiaks tommorow!! Cant remember , but I think there under 900 fps..Would have never bought 460 in 177 v/s 22 cal,, but local gun shop sold it to me for 450$!! GET ER DONE!!( boy I wish it was 22!!)Thanks BB. for all you do!! Tim n S.C.

 
At December 29, 2007 7:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Soecial gift to all,,We have all heard about them , & read about them, I now have my hands on 2 of them!! ( no its not gas springs) But it is GRT111 TRIGGERS!!! For those of us that own low end springers ,, start the party!! Im 49 yrs. old & have been shooting guns since I was 5 yrs. old & I have never exp. a better trigger w/ such a better feel between first & second stage!!BB. I know you may block this & I will find another way to tell people about this, but dam&% son , this trigger CHANGES EVERYTING!!!! If this posts, this trigger will take an ordinary springer ( IE. Gamo/Cros.) to extraordinary accuracy levels!! This is not only a beutifull gold trigger , but is a marvel of engeniering// A WORK OF ART!!Happy new year to all!! Tim in S.C.

 
At December 29, 2007 8:40 PM, Anonymous RWS350 said...

B.B,
I don't want to stray too far off topic but I was wondering, does an rws350 have the power to propel a .22 caliber 30gr solid pellet (eley magnum from Airguns of Arizona )or .22 caliber Euin Jin? What kind of drop can I expect? What kind of power increase or decrease?

 
At December 30, 2007 10:26 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Tim,

Why would I block your comment when I already blogged the GRT III trigger?

No, it isn't the finest trigger I have ever used, but in light of what it does to Gamo triggers, it is a wonder.

B.B.

 
At December 30, 2007 10:33 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

RWS350,

The only way to find out is to try them yourself.

Here is what you will discover. They don't chamber easily. In fact, I don't think you will get them to chamber at all unless you are prepared to apply serious force. Here is why:

Solid "pellets", which are really bullets, require the rifling to engrave their entire body as they are loaded. This is exactly the same as loading a muzzleloading rifle, except that most people use a cloth patch when they load a muzzleloader. You will be engraving the pellet by the force of your thumb, while a muzzle-loader uses a short ramrod that he hits with his palm. It's called a short starter.

I have Eley Magnum "pellets" that I have tried in numerous magnum air rifles and they stink in all of them.

B.B.

 
At December 30, 2007 11:07 AM, Anonymous scott298 said...

B.B. happy holidays to you and your wife you really made mine special. After reading a certain book I read that it was important to put a muzzle break on any gun that you scope. As you know mine is the rws350. Are there any muzzle breaks on the market that once installed can later be removed without marring the barrell. Also if the gun is scoped and the factory sights are still on the gun will the sights play games with the optics of the scope even though the factory sights cannot be seen when looking thru the scope? Now we all know that every rifle is different and some pellets perform better than others in a paticular gun-the question is this-if you have a pellet that performs great during the breakin period will it still work just as well after the gun has been brokenin or do some pellets perform better after the breakin than the original ones used during the breakin process-what,s your experience with this. And by the way I'm still waiting for the adoption papers, I've got my bufffer and wax all set for the truck. I hope the new year find both you and your wife happy and rewarding-"your future son, Scott298"

 
At December 30, 2007 11:25 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Scott298,

I put muzzle brakes on scoped rifles to help with cocking. The Beeman Universal brake might work for you if your barrel is the right diameter. My experience is that all muzzle brakes will mar the finish of a barrel on which they are installed.

The open sights do not interfer with seeing through a scope. You cannot see them unlesws you have a very low-powered scope.

As for best pellets, they usually don't change. They may get better, but you wpn't see a drastic transformation in a pellet's performance.

B.B.

 
At December 30, 2007 12:59 PM, Anonymous sumo said...

BB,

i can see the word verification again.

In other news the airwolf is up and running again.

I did some long range shooting today. 100 yards with 16g .22 jsb at 950 fps (not full power, full is about 1070) through my airwolf. This is the first time i took it to that range. I did it with the theoben MK2 and shot a couple groups about a month ago.

Today i got groups of about .7 inches. The gun i capable of keeping inside the 1 inch squares on the target, thats a stretch for my marksmanship.

When i was shooting the theoben last month i was getting just over an inch.

I thing the accuracy is equal, the conditions were better today than when i shot the theoben last month.

I have had equal experience with each gun. The airwolf lost its head start by not functioning for a month, but it was just a breech seal. while the wolf was out i was shooting the theoben all the time at 50 yards, just like i shot the airwolf before i had the theoben. They are perfectly equal in terms of accuracy, for SURE.

i will take the theoben back out to 100 yards some time to be scientific. LOL. Recently i have noticed i get a few more shots per charge with the the airwolf, it does have a larger tank and its due to that, not the electronics. But not by much because of the short barrel. I get maybe 5 more shots

I have also noticed that my theoben mark one (not the mk2) valve is not balanced to the length of the barrel. The barrel on it is almost 19 inches, it is MUCH louder than the mk2, even if i swap the moderators. The mark one is less powerful, get less good shots with the same size tank, and LOUDER.

Mark one... 30 fp / 25 good shots
MK2....... tuned to about 38fp / 35 good shots

I still enjoy shooting the mark one, and it still can shoot 1/2 inch groups at 50 yards. Its no doubt less accurate, but were splitting hairs here.

I hate to come on here and tell you what i did today, but its the best way i can communicate my experiences. i thought you would want to hear about that.

-sumo

 
At December 30, 2007 3:19 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Sumo,

You can tell us about your day anytime you want. Especially when you can shoot a 0.7" group at 100 yards with an air rifle!

Wow!

B.B.

 
At December 30, 2007 4:58 PM, Anonymous .22 multi-shot said...

Dragon Slayer,

Yes, I did receive my chrony. However, I doubt if I will use it for a couple of weeks. My wife's parents are here for the holidays and her dad and I are working on honey-do projects for now.

I'll report back when I try the chrony out since I have some (hopefully) interesting experiments ahead of me. I purchased two extra valves for my 850 AirMagnum. I plan to compare my current valve (which I modified with a larger inlet hole) to the two new ones. I will leave one valve standard. The other valve I will replace the spring with a lighter spring as well as enlarge the inlet hole. My testing will be with HPA (high pressure air). I may test with CO2 later, but lately the temperatures here have been in the 30s and 40s!

.22 multi-shot

 
At December 30, 2007 5:24 PM, Blogger DragonSlayer said...

BB. Sorry about the trigger thing, I just was not shure of "the rules of engagement" regarding comments on "OTHER VENDORS". Sorry, I didnt mean anything by it!!I was sooo exited w/ results on my sons Big Cat yesterday!! After a long debate, I decided to install mine on my recently purchased Cros. G1 Exreme (that I reported on my muzzle break mod earlyer). Wow!! What a differance!! NEVER thougt an under 150$ gun could be so accurate,so easy to cock &load, and SOOO QUIET!! Back to RWS 460, cleaned brl. and it has settled in at 950-965 fps. with accuraccy Im very satisfied with! After about 100 shots,,,, All of a sudden I have onl 3 out of 4 crosshais vis. in scope!! Another Center Point scope BITES THE DUST!! TS Leap. FOR SHURE this time!! Meanwhile, gun is BOXED UP again, thi time TO CHARLIE!! FULL TUNE & SLOW it down 10%?? Thanks BB. & god bless! Tim/ Drag. Slay.

 
At December 30, 2007 5:47 PM, Anonymous sumo said...

BB,

thanks.

In that case, here is the second half of my day...

I took my first shot through my new 375 H&H (owch). I was running out of time but i just wanted to get a feel for it, so i only took one shot. i shot a tree, it went straight through, it was about 10 inches in diameter. The tree is trashed from exploding targets and were to the point were its a game to shoot up the tree. We cell it "clipping branches".

Ironically, the kick of a 375 H&H is the same amount of energy going to your shoulder as the airwolf has as energy at the muzzle, about 40 foot pounds.

I cant believe the group i got today. It gets allot harder to group past about 80 yards. After seeing how effective this gun is at that distance, i ordered some software celled ChairGun2 and it calculates drop and all that.

 
At December 30, 2007 5:55 PM, Blogger DragonSlayer said...

22 Multi: Boy have you got WILLPOWER!! New Chrony. FAMILY OR NOT IM GONA PLAY!! Ihave family in town to for hollidays & am building new house BUT, my family is familliar w/,,, where is Tim,,,Oh Ihear that familliar poping noise,, he is on back portch Sooting range!! (they have learned to live w/ my addiction!!) Facinated w/ your 850 mods. dont have one yet, but it is on my list!Have lots of cross. xxs,& pretty cool mods.! Have been really looking hard at the ( DARK SIDE) (Tallon SS) (co2) My 2260 w/ B&A valve does 600 fps. w/ my own wood, yes stained wood, muzzle break?? Matches stock & gun is fairly quiet!! Bet that Tal. SS c02 is REALLY HUSH HUSH!! Anyway look forward to you being back up & running!!!Your friend in S.C. Tim/ Drag. Slay.

 
At December 30, 2007 6:56 PM, Anonymous TRC said...

B.B.,

Before I try a bunch of different kinds I thought I would ask what pellet you might recommend for highest accuracy for the R7? I understand that this ultimately will be specific to my gun but what are a few to try that might be good to start "in the ballpark"?

Thanks in advance!

 
At December 30, 2007 8:51 PM, Blogger DragonSlayer said...

TRC BB. will be turning IN HIS SLEEP!! But for what it is worth Ill ad my two cents in! If I had such a really cool rifle such as your R-7 I would try Cross. Prem. 7.9s for shure! JSBs are a good one, but are alittle hard to come by! In my area Gamo hunters are available & have proven aceptable in a few of my guns. Cros. prm. are avail. (hp) locally in abundance, but are somewhat TIGHT fitting in most of my guns. Your R-7 will shurly ovrcome this & shooy them well,,, I think. I have been following your blog ,& am jelious of yourR-7!! My advice for what its worth,,,, try all the pels. you can get locally If they dont work,, try BB.s rec. from PYRAMID & of course stick with what WORKS FOR YOU!! Good luck my friend!!Tim in S.C.

 
At December 30, 2007 10:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi B.B.

Happy New Year!

Having finally made up my mind on my purchase of the Diana 46.22 with CP 3-9x40 scope and Accushot one piece high mount. I found the scope out of stock til Jan 10 so I have some time to refine my wishlist.

I talked to Paul ? (ext.235) and he seemed very experienced. I still wonder if the Accushot mount will stay put..does it have a stop pin that can be hung over the front like you suggested above? Pyramyd is going to mount (and sight?) the scope since I'm getting a foam case. If there is too much droop do you think whoever does this will substitute a B-square mount if I authorize it? Or an RWS C-mount? Which would you prefer? Paul seemed to think the fixed mount could be shimmed enough on the 46. I didn't ask him about the exact procedure Pyramyd goes through, and I am wondering just how carefully the scope tech does this job. (I'm just nervous about such a major purchase and hope all my research gets me something that will work well right out of the box.)

...And, I'm getting Crosman Premier Domed, JSB Diabolo Jumbo Match, and RWS Super-H-Points. Do you have any other pellet suggestions? Remember I'm going to be shooting the 46 around 5000 to 6000 ft.

Thanks again for all the help. I sure hope Joshua realizes how much you contribute to Pyramyd!

Jay in ID

 
At December 31, 2007 1:28 AM, Anonymous .22 multi-shot said...

Dragon Slayer,

I like the Crosman guns 'cause they're easy to mod and the 13xx/22xx have lots in common. Crosman also gives pretty good support. I've got the 2260 or QB79 down as a possibility one of these days. I'd be interested in what you did with your 2260 stock!

.22 multi-shot

 
At December 31, 2007 3:16 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

TRC,

It's been several years since I worked with R7s, but when I last did, Crosman Premier lites were a great pellet. Today I would try the 8.4-grain JSB Exact dome as well.

B.B.

 
At December 31, 2007 3:30 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Jay in ID,

Pyramyd Air will sight in at about 28 feet, so you will be on at 10 yards. But don't be surprised if the scope gets bumped off zero in shipment. That happens a lot.

Yes, I think an Accushot mount can be shimmed for the 46, which doesn't have quite as much droop as the other Dianas - especially the breakbarrels.

If you need a different mount, know that B-Square makes the RWS C-mount, so you are getting the same thing either way. There used to be a difference, but they switched to the AA mount a couple of years ago.

Your pellets sound fine for the 46. I expect the JSBs and the Crosman Premier lites to do the best. You might order a tin of RWS Superdomes, too.

I understand your nervousness. I have the same feeling when buying something expensive. But know that Pyramyd Air will see this sale through until you are satisfied, so even if there is a problem, they will stand behind what they sell.

B.B.

 
At December 31, 2007 6:41 AM, Anonymous Steve said...

BB: RE: your comment to Jim in KY -"I tested BKL scope mounts, which work by clamping pressure alone, when they first came out and showed that they all do move with recoil." I don't know which BKL mount you tested, but I've used a BKL 260 one piece on an RWS 350, and it hasn't moved a lick. All (all; no exceptions) other comments I have read regarding the BKL 260 used on tough springers are consistent with my test. You must have got a bum sample or something.

 
At December 31, 2007 7:58 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Steve,

Well, if they were bum samples (plural), they were set to me for testing by the owner of BKL. I tested several different samples and one even crushed the mainspring tube of an R9 so I could feel the mainspring when the gun was cocked. Even that failed to work.

I dson't know what to tell you because several other people have had the same experience.

After I was challenged on mounting the mounts, I doubled up on a lightweight spring and even THEN, TWO BKL mounts slipped! That was the popular fix for them back then.

B.B.

 
At December 31, 2007 10:38 AM, Anonymous TRC said...

B.B. and Dragonslayer,

Thanks for the pellet suggestions. I'll give those a shot (literally)! :)

 
At December 31, 2007 11:25 AM, Anonymous Steve said...

BB - I think we are talking apples and oranges; you appear to be referencing the two piece model, as you mention 'doubling-up, which of course can't be done with a one-piece. The model that won't slip on Diana rails is the one-piece with six screws in the base. If your impending product is as well made and solid, you will be onto something.

 
At December 31, 2007 11:50 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Steve,

You're right. I never tested a 6-screw model.

My impending product has a positive mechanical scope stop.

B.B.

 
At December 31, 2007 8:33 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jay in ID
I hope you have better luck with the pyramid scope setup than I did. I purchsed a rws 350 mag with professional scope install. My rifle sheared the STEEL stop pin in 15 shots or less. An aluminum base sheared the STEEL stop pin on the same mount. I was aggravated with the whole setup wit 4 boxes of pellets was $508, and I got to shoot it 15 times. I took the scope off to replace the sheared stop and noticed that the scope was bent really bad from overtightening the rings on the rear which was shimmed with approx 1/16 inch of plastic. Anyways, I called pyramid and told of my misfortune and NO...ZERO questions asked except how to make me happy. Took the whole thing back and even sent me a prepaid shipping label by email to send the rifle back in. I immediately ordered a RWS 48 and 1" 3x9 Leapers scope. Bought RWS c mounts and they are junk from someone else. Returning those next week. Think I will check out those BKL mounts. BB told me about b square but they look the same as the rws c mounts, so I am scared of them. Let me know what kind of luck you have. Pyramid Air best in service anywhere...anywhere..

Jim in KY

 
At January 01, 2008 2:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear BB & Nate In Mass,

Thanks for the replies!

Nate, green gas is non-existent here on Maui, as far as I know. But what a great price for a gas gun. I guess because it would be slow to load? I already had my eye on the springer Colt Python clone for $30. But really, I can't understand why they (someone?) don't make a SAA AS pistol.

I'm 61, and when growing up it was all westerns and SA pistols. My first handgun was a Colt New Frontier in .22, at age 9! (I was extremely conscious about gun safety and I guess this impressed my dad; also we lived on a farm). I noticed when I was teaching my kids about shooting airguns that many of them had grown up with WWII and later movies. They mostly wanted to sling lead downrange as fast as possible (from their Crosman 357s with 10-shot clips). Not my style but, a different generation.

BB, I craved that Arvo Ojala holster as a kid! Never got one though...just a solid working hip holster. My shooting style was more slow and considered back then, and then I hung up my guns after Vietnam. I didn't ask for them back from my father until the kids began clamoring for something to shoot beyond their airguns and archery practice.

Anyway...still looking for that elusive SAA springgun.

Happy New Year, guys!

-Joe B.

 
At January 01, 2008 4:29 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Joe B.

I bet you do have green gas on Maui. It's called propane.

You can get a fill adaptor online.

E komo mai!

B.B.

 
At January 02, 2008 12:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

E komo mai, BB. And thanks for the green gas/propane tip. Were you stationed in Hawaii during your military service?

--Joe B.

 
At January 02, 2008 12:45 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Joe B.,

Nope. I just go to Hawaiian greetings on the internet.

http://www.geocities.com/~olelo/greetings.html

I got Mele Kalikimaka from Chevy Chase's Christmas Vacation.

I just think it's neat that you live on Mau, so when I respond I try to insert an appropriate greeting.

B.B.

 
At March 24, 2008 5:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi,
Do you have any idea what pyramids schedule is in terms of offering gas springs in the rest of the gamo line up? How long do you estimate until we see a gamo-gaser other than the whisper and cfx? Any indications of what model will be next? Thanks for such an awesome website!
-n8

 
At March 25, 2008 7:23 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

-n8,

The same gas spring that fits the Whisper also fits most other Gamos. Pyramyd has been selling it separately for about two months.

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/accessory/2103

B.B.

 

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