Tuesday, July 15, 2008

Learn the language!

by B.B. Pelletier

Before we begin, Joe is looking for information about how to convert a CO2 gun to air. He asked for a blog, but I told him several of you readers have done quite a bit of converting already. Is anyone up for a guest blog on what you've done?

Today's post is a rant, but a useful one. It strives to lower the confusion that arises from the improper use of words and terms. Let's begin.

Bullet tips and bullet noses
A very well-known airgun maker astounded me one day by referring to some lead bullets he was shooting as bullet tips. I asked him to explain. He said if what you put into a firearm (he called it a real gun) is called a bullet, then the lead that sits on the end of the bullet and goes downrange when the gun fires should be called a bullet tip.

"Okay," I said, "I'll grant you that, but who ever said that what you load into a firearm is called a bullet? It's a freakin' cartridge, consisting of a cartridge case, a primer, some gunpowder and a BULLET. It isn't a bullet tip, bullet nose or bullet head; it's just called a bullet."


These are bullets - every one of them. Not a bullet nose or a bullet tip in sight.



These are cartridges.



These are the components of a cartridge. They consist of a bullet, a cartridge case, a primer and gunpowder.


"Okay," sez he, "then what do people load into muzzleloading rifles? Those aren't bullets, too, are they?"

"Yes, they are! What else would they be?"

"Well you call them round balls. I've heard you."

"Yes, they are both bullets AND round balls - just like cake is both dessert AND fattening!"

You may think I'm poking fun at someone who just uses relaxed speech, but when ANOTHER airgun retailer then offers to order 1,000 .22-caliber bullet NOSES for me to use in a test, I know we have a problem!

Language is supposed to promote communication, but in the past five years I've seen it do more to confuse than to promote. Here are a few examples.

The person who shoots his spring rifle enough to get it past the BREAKING period. I'm sure he means the break-in period, but the next person he talks to may not know that.

Here is one from a recent forum post:

"...even thought they are true to stage triggers the slopiness make for very creapy triggers."

You know, that sentence is very close to the Chinglish or Engrish that everyone makes fun of. Only that sentence was written by an American who, presumably, went to school.

I think he means, "Even though they are true two-stage triggers, their sloppiness makes for very creepy triggers."

Or what about the PCP shooter who puts air into his resolver instead of his reservoir?

Or the thousands of shooters who load the pellet into the breach instead of the breech. It's not a big deal, but a breach is a forced opening, like a hole in the wall of a dam, or even a breach of contract, not a gun part.

Or the tuner who shoots through his chronometer instead of his chronograph. I sure hope the watch wasn't on his wrist when he shot through it!

Or the gunstore owner who tells everyone he has a single-pump rifle made by Gamo. It's really a breakbarrel or just a spring-piston air rifle and many people think I'm being too critical when I call him on it. But if he persists, what will he call the powerplant of a Daisy 853? "Oh, it's a one-pump gun too, only it uses air." So, what does the Gamo use - peanut butter?

This is the reason I go ballistic about airsoft ammo being called BBs. First, because they're 6mm (.236 caliber) plastic balls and second, because if they are BBs, then the guns they are shot in become BB guns by association. I know they're not and maybe you do, too, but what happens when the mom goes to buy her son a BB gun and all the packages at Wal-Mart proclaim airsoft guns to be BB guns? And then she learns her town has an ordnance against discharging a BB gun in town. What product is she supposed to be buying and is it really illegal in her community? Airsoft guns may not be illegal to shoot, while BB guns, and now I mean real BB guns, are.

I've lost the battle on the BB/airsoft gun issue, but I don't want to concede the rest of the fight, just yet.

115 Comments:

At July 15, 2008 5:47 AM, Anonymous Michael in Florida said...

BB,

Dittos.

Regards,
Michael in Florida.

 
At July 15, 2008 5:51 AM, Blogger Revwarnut said...

Hey B.B.
Isn't Airsoft ammo really... Soft Roundball?

(grin)

Sorry, couldn't resist that one!!

Revwarnut

 
At July 15, 2008 6:14 AM, Blogger progun said...

Hello B.B., How about this one" I was shooting freehand instead of using a rest". Did the term "freehand" replace "offhand" when I wasn't looking?

 
At July 15, 2008 6:18 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Progun,

My wife said you guys would come up with a million of them.

B.B.

 
At July 15, 2008 6:45 AM, Blogger E in V said...

Sorry if my response is no so eloquent.
It is, I believe, a decline of values, lack of (in some cases) proper education, lack of skill levels and general overall sense of decay in the world today.
All that is really needed to define the current generation is to look at the current additions to the language - all the slang terms that have been added to dictionaries in the past decade or so. Add to that the shortening of almost everything down to a series of letters - OMG, YMMV, NOYB, GOH, etc for texting and the email and private messages via cell and internet usage have seen a larger, broader scope too.
I see posts on forums where it is hard to decipher what the person is saying, in some cases because English is not their native tongue, or even if it is, they seemed not to learn much in school (in some cases, yet . . .) and so in many cases the slang talk seems to stick out. There are many words, and expressions I certainly have a time with.
Another thing is that society today is in a lot more of a hurry, so something has to suffer for it.

That is why the "Remembering When" stories are so fun to read . . . a "throw back" to another era when you can get lost for a while in the past. You said for me to remind you . . . :)

 
At July 15, 2008 7:06 AM, Anonymous twotalon said...

B.B.
I'm going to have my girlfriend read your blog tonight.
I want her to see that I am not the only one who wants correct information and terminology when communicating.

Man, the arguements that start because she misleads me with the wrong words ... or incomplete information!!!
twotalon

 
At July 15, 2008 7:28 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

E in V,

I think you are correct. But I didn't know how to say it. A decline in values, and perhaps just in value (of life).

B.B.

 
At July 15, 2008 7:29 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Twotalon,

Just remember - she is your girlfriend!

B.B.

 
At July 15, 2008 7:33 AM, Blogger Brody said...

Mornin' B.B.,
I beleive you are 100% absolutely, positively correct. I get tired when people at my school,(who think they know everything about guns, because they've killed stuff with it) say the bought new bullets for the slug gun. For one the not bullets and there slugs, and two, i always ask did you buy any powder. There like well duh it came with it stupid. I always have to tell them you put more than a bullet into your gun. Had to rant a little too.
Thanks for an Excellent blog,
Brody

 
At July 15, 2008 7:36 AM, Blogger Il Bruce said...

Despite my degree in English I have found my speech and writing skills have become a bit too relaxed at times. Getting things right just doesn’t seem to matter to many people.

As a student I worked in bike shops and would often get customers asking for “pedal guts” and “gooseneck guts”. What they meant were bottom brackets and headsets. Then when I asked what type I often got the answer “standard”. As you may have guessed, there is no such thing as a standard anything on a bike.

My current career is in the electroplating and metal finishing supply industry. We deal with a lot of very high tech applications and very specific chemical requirements. Just taking an order can be an ordeal when people don’t take the time to find out what they really want and just communicate in the most vague of terms. This is with dangerous chemicals and precious metals. Things that you would think were important to get right!

As a new air gunner I appreciate your precision of terms. There is a lot to absorb and keeping things consistent and clear is invaluable. Thanks.

Now I’m off to teach the English speaking world the difference between than and then.

Il Bruce

 
At July 15, 2008 7:47 AM, Blogger Joe in MD said...

I suppose I should start objecting when my high-power shooting acquaintances call their bullets BBs?

 
At July 15, 2008 7:52 AM, OpenID mechredd said...

A few years ago, in an attempted bonding exercise, I took my ex-girlfriend's little brother shooting. He is an extremely gifted shooter, and was making shots with his Daisy Grizzly, that had to be seen to be believed. We had fun, but he kept referring to pellets as "flat heads." I had casually corrected him a few times but he kept doing it and I was becoming very annoyed.

Later that day his sister and I went out on a date, and stopped at a sporting goods store along the way. I couldn't resist buying this kid a tin of Gamo Magnums, who's head comes to a very sharp point.

When I gave him the pellets he said "Thanks for the flat heads." He opened the tin and with a dumb founded look he said "Hey, these flat heads arn't flat." He was then willing to listen to me tell him about the different types of pellets. After the conversation, he showed the pellets to his father and his dad said "So he got ya some flat heads."

Sins of the father anyone?

 
At July 15, 2008 8:55 AM, Anonymous Doug Owen said...

As always thought provoking and while I agree with most of it, I take exception to 'chronograph'. Yes it's a fancy watch, but it's also the proper term for a machine to measure time between screens.

Ken Oheler and Chrony both seem to think that's what them make, Midway thinks they sell 'em and the Patient Office registers chronographs.

Not to pick too fine a nit, of course.

Anyway, thanks for the entertaining and thought provoking blogs.

Doug Owen

 
At July 15, 2008 9:19 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB, regarding Joe and co2 to air conversion, what gun is he looking to convert?

Chris

 
At July 15, 2008 9:25 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't forget muzzle "break" instead of muzzle brake. Makes me want to scream.

 
At July 15, 2008 9:27 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Il Bruce,

Then and than is another of my seemingly endless peeves!

Can anyone diagram a sentence anymore?

B.B.

 
At July 15, 2008 9:30 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Doug,

Yes, I knew I was stretching on chronograph. I was once a watch collector.

But I think you understand that I meant the writer was taking the term out of context, and chronometer is not the term we use in the shooting sports.

B.B.

 
At July 15, 2008 9:33 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Chris,

I think Joe was just looking for a general report. I know several of our readers have converted RWS 850 AirMagnums to air and I thought they might like to share that with him.

B.B.

 
At July 15, 2008 9:33 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Brake,

How did I ever overlook THAT?

B.B.

 
At July 15, 2008 9:37 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

mechredd ,

Now that is a new one! Thanks.

It's sort of like the coffee sizes at Starbucks, where large is the smallest one.

B.B.

 
At July 15, 2008 9:47 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

cowboy dad here.
I agree with everthing you've said. I'm amazed at what passes for 'english' in the business emails I receive daily.
What's particularily distrubing is that as a photographer I have a lot of dealings with print jounalists...it is amazing how many of the younger ones, who've learned their trade in the last 15 years cannot properly stucture a sentence.
I recently read that the average newspaper has 'dumbed down' their writing level from grade 9 to grade 6.
That inspires confidence in the future of the world!
One small disagreement though, with progun...Webster's defines 'freehand' as anything done without mechanical aid.
My son shoots his Red Ryder without benefit of a rest, beanbag or anything of the like...in essence he is shooting freehand.

 
At July 15, 2008 9:52 AM, Anonymous TeflonTron said...

BB, not to be too much of a stick-in-the-mud, but no Town would have an "Ordnance" which is of course a description for Artillery. Instead, they would have an "Ordinance" which is a local, or by-law.

Forgive my pedantry, but I thought it funny for obvious reasons.

- TeflonTron

 
At July 15, 2008 10:08 AM, Blogger CritterController said...

Hey BB,
I got one to add. After a long day of hunting with my friend he said he wished his Gamo Big Cat had "laser optic sights". So a week later was his birthday and i baught him the laser and light kit from BSA. He loves it and gets more use out of it than i thaught he would. Though he loves it, apparently he ment "fiber optic sights" ins stead of "laser" optic sights. But oh well he likes the laser. A quick question BB, what red dot sight would you reccomend for a breakbarrel rifle like the Beeman RS1, or for a pistol like the cCosman 1377?

 
At July 15, 2008 10:17 AM, Blogger airgundoc said...

Bravo, B.B.,
I could not agree more completely! When I receive e-mails from my college graduate grandchildren with faulty syntax, punctuation, capitalization and other assorted literary atrocities I come close to weeping. The days of beautiful communication through the written word are alas, forever gone. The problems which you describe are sadly not confined to the world of air gunning. Thank you for your " rant". I feel better myself.
CWI

 
At July 15, 2008 10:37 AM, Blogger CritterController said...

Hey is there any one who can tell me something about the Crosman C31? The C11? I want to know how many shots you get from 1 co2 cartridge, its accuracy, its flaws, ect. Any info is greatly appreciated!

Thank you,
CritterController

 
At July 15, 2008 10:45 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB
About the conversion blog. There's someone interested in doing it in the RWS 850. Please contact roald@the850store.com. I have a converted one as well, but Roald is definately the "go to" man.

Hope it works out!

Chris

 
At July 15, 2008 11:01 AM, Anonymous BG_Farmer said...

BB,

Someone might infer from your writing here that most bullets do not have tips or noses, a contention with which I would take issue. You are right of course that the projectile portion of a cartridge is simply a bullet.

Also, I think "ball" is more useful when referring to spherical projectiles, although the "Minie ball" might be be more intuitively termed simply a bullet. The exception proves the rule, I suppose.

Regarding another poster's disdain for YMMV, IMHO, etc., I would respectfully cite "S.P.Q.R." as precedent:).

 
At July 15, 2008 11:02 AM, Anonymous wayne said...

B.B. & All

It is sad that we lost the desire to be accurate in communication...
At the same time we want better accuracy in our guns and in our path to instant gratification...I hate it when I rush into a purchase because I think it will make me happier...only to find I have wasted time and money...

We are in too big of a hurry...There are too many jars of candy in the store to choose from....our inner egos have control and we are easily influenced by TV ads and the like....the more choices the bigger hurry we are in to taste all the candy...meanwhile not enjoying each bite of the one we are tasting....not "in the moment", grasshopper...

Get your Kids outdoors folks....

Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range

 
At July 15, 2008 11:13 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Teflon Tron,

Busted! You got me good, and right when I was asking for it. That's the armor training coming out.

However, most small eastern towns do have ordnance, as well. It's usually one or more cannon in front of the town hall.

B.B.

 
At July 15, 2008 11:18 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Wayne - READ THIS!

I just stumbled across this thread while searching to see if anyone had solved the problem I am having with my RWS 300R. It sounds like I may be too late to help Wayne, if he's already bought one, but to anyone else looking to buy this air rifle - DON'T! It is a truly excellent rifle - until it breaks, which it does with regularity. According to the folks at Umarex, RWS apparently only made this model for a couple of years and stopped, because of this problem. The little pin that pushes the pellet from the rotary magazine into the chamber is fragile and shears off easily. I am getting ready to send mine for replacement of the valve complete unit for the second time in 18 months, and my rifle gets very little use and, after the first replacement, I can assure you I have handled this mechanism with great care. If you search the 'net, you'll find others with the same issue. At $110 for service and shipping, if I own the rifle for another 3 years, I will have doubled its effective price. There has been no redesign of this part, according to Umarex, so the unfortunate owners' only choice is to keep replacing with the same fragile piece. This is truly sad, as the rifle, otherwise, is a beauty, especially for the money. Having said all that, does anyone have any suggestions for a replacement, moderately priced repeater with a decent trigger and capable of dispatching rats and squirrels out to about 40 yards? I have no experience with anything other than springers and pumps, but am starting to consider alternatives, like the RWS/Hammerli 850. Am hoping for something a little quieter than a typical high-velocity springer, for my residential neighborhood.
-----------------------------

That was posted to part 3 of the Walther lever-action rifle comments

B.B.

 
At July 15, 2008 11:23 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Critter Controller,

I like different sights for rifles and pistols. I like the Leapers UTG sight that looks like a scope for a rifle. But I like a holographic dot sight on pistols.

B.B.

 
At July 15, 2008 11:32 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Chris,

Thanks for that reference, but because Roald competes with PA, I'm going to request Joe to contact him directly.

B.B.

 
At July 15, 2008 11:49 AM, Anonymous BG_Farmer said...

Tron,
There's quite a bit of ordnance even in towns around here.

 
At July 15, 2008 11:53 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB, I did not think of that. If it does not work out I will be glad to do it. I am not associated with anyone ;)

Chris

 
At July 15, 2008 12:11 PM, Anonymous wayne said...

B.B.
Wow, thanks,

I have not shot the two I picked up on the adds, since I tried them out after the purchase....my intention was for collectors items for these...so shooting them was not really the long term goal, but now who would want to shoot them or collect them...bad purchase...not enough research on my part...(see, just what I was talking about above)
I don't want to dump them on someone else...so I'll just keep them, and let it be a lesson that stares me in the face...

As far as the rifle he is looking for to replace the 300r...I know it is not in the price point at $900 or so...but the Air Arms S410 10 shot repeater I just got is amazing....
The Power adjuster is great..(can't wait for the Discovery to get one)..On high power, with Crossman Premires 7.9 (980fps) I get 40 shots with no drop of POI, and 60 shots with the power adjusted just above half (still 900fps)..

At low power, (450fps) who knows, I have not tried it yet...It is so quite on high power, why shoot so slow, the pellets bounce of the wood.

The action is so smooth, and the cocking so easy, that I can stay in my shooting position, cock and fire 10 shots, very quickly and stay on 3/4" dots at 35yds....outdoors!!

And at 50yds. the 2" plaster disks are easy...at least every other shot is a hit..sometimes I get 4 in a row, and even clean up a 3/4" chip now and then...as good or better than I can do with the TX200.. and it is a little more quite!!..

And you don't have to worry about counting shots, and a dry fire, like with the 300r...right?

But, it is 2 or 3 times the price before a scope, scuba tank or pump...

If one can afford it, this might be the perfect all around air rifle...which is pretty much what your review said as well B.B. (I might be more impressed than yourself, B.B. because, I have not compared it to the Condor...that you say "can shoot circles around the S410, I hope you were talking about 50yrds and more, (I do have to aim 3 dots high at 50yds)...if not, I have to get a Condor even if it doesn't have a wood stock, like I prefer...

Thanks again for the 300r info,

Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range

 
At July 15, 2008 12:46 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.

While I would agree with most of what you said, please don’t forget that you don’t know what you don’t know. Not everyone has forty plus years of shooting experience.

A local gun shop was legendary for the man behind the counter who spoke down to any novice that entered. He became much more accommodating when a chain firearms store came to town.

Every sport, industry, etc has its own jargon that needs to be learned by those who are going to participate, but they need to be given a chance. Otherwise, those with a holier- than- thou attitude will ensure the decline of the activity.

So let’s try teaching without the criticism.

What would Andy Griffith do?

 
At July 15, 2008 1:06 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cowboy dad again...
I'm sorry, but I entirely disagree with the 'andy griffith' poster.

I quess this will be my little rant.

Firstly, though I'm sure b.b. is entirely capable of defending himself...the person in question was, he states, a well known airgun maker...not some noobie to the sport. And when someone who should no better gives erroneous information it usually just continues to be passed on to more people as the gospel truth...the 'net is infamous for this.

But something deeper is at play with this thinking in my mind.
The thinking that everyone has to be 'cut some slack'...that no one should have their errors pointed out because it may somehow harm their egos.

An incident happened to me and my son earlier this year in Beavers. All the children in his lodge spent two weeks building these little wooden cars that would then be raced down an incline to, I thought, determine a winner.
Parental help was to be minimal...the only thing we could do was 'suggest' some improvements, but no hands on help.
My suggestion was a little WD40 on the wheel axles.
Another father suggested his son glue a quarter to the front of the car.
Well race night came and their were 9 cars. A number of heats would be raced to determine the 'winner'.
It was obvious some children had gone to great lengths to build their cars...others were thrown together in minutes.
My sons car won 5 out of the 6 heats it was entered in and won overall.
He was happy as all get out.
The 'drivers' of the three winning cars all got their photos taken...and then all the children were given EXACTLY the same little trophy because, in the troop leaders words there are "no losers in Beavers".
Afterwords my 7 year old actually asked me why bother to build a really good car if everyone gets the same prize.
I really didn't have an answer for him.

Ya know...we all screw up...and when we do we should all be big enough to accept responsibility when our mistakes are pointed out. You don't have to be mean about it...but we're not progressing as a society if we have the outlook that everthing is right and everyone has the same abilities (not to be confused with everyone having access to the same chances...a whole 'nother matter).

End of Rant

 
At July 15, 2008 1:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.

The other day at the gun store a customer referred to a magazine for a handgun, and the guy behind the counter said, "I'm so glad that someone knows what to call them. I get so sick of hearing people call them clips. I've had a long day, and I'm in a BAAAAD mood," he finished glaring around with a petrifying expression.

So, what is the difference anyway.... All that I can come up with is that magazines have a follower to push a cartridge upward into position while clips...don't. Anyway, you're right that people in the business should know what they are talking about and some of the discourse online is of low quality. There's one of my favorite lines from an airsoft blog: "I love to hide in the bushys and shoot my friends in the head. It's so much fun!" And along with this goes a certain amount of incivility that I believe is caused by frustration at not being able to articulate: "Hey, if you're worried about losing casings. Pick them up! That's what pockets are for!!! Noob!!!!" But every so often while trawling around, one finds a real gem: "There's a loader that you can attach to the gun that holds 25 bbs but loading that is a butt." Ha ha. Well, it is.

Matt61

 
At July 15, 2008 1:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.

Well, I fired my 50 rounds from the 1911 and have lived to tell the tale. Wow. That is some power. It seems like anything in the way of the discharge would simply disappear. Your wife is some shooter if she takes to this gun right away. It turned out that I was able to group easily enough at 20 ft. although nothing worth measuring. At 25 yards, I managed to hit the paper with one or two from the 8 round magazine.

The main thing, though, is that the airgun techniques carried over. I could shoot from all of my stances--the classic Weaver, the Isosceles, and even the cantilevered match pistol stance. So all of you shooting airgun reproductions of 1911s are also shooting the original in a manner of speaking. The only problem was a rather pronounced muzzle flip, like you said. I could not get comfortable with putting my thumb over the manual safety as it seemed kind of exposed and liable to tearing from the recoil. However, I see what lies ahead and it will be fun.

I wish you could try out my S&W 1911. It's a great gun, and the staff pointed out that it is supplied with ACT magazines which are a product made in Italy that is supplied to high-level custom guns. So they said anyway. There was only one failure to feed caused entirely by me riding the slide instead of slingshoting it to chamber a round. And it was one of my best accomplishments to clear the thing myself. I would never have gone down this path without your blog on the Taurus PT1911. Now, we'll see if my Dad can hit a bullseye with my pistol.

Matt61

 
At July 15, 2008 1:31 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

To the reader who said I was too harsh,

I agree that not everyone knows everything. I am evidence of that, as my misspelling of ordinance in today's report proves.

But there is a difference between not knowing, or making a mistake and plain old apathy. "Bullet Tips" is an airgun maker, and "Bullet Heads" is a dealer and importer. I expect both of these guys to know the lingo.

I hope I never criticize anyone who makes an honest mistake, but my tolerance for professional stupidity is very low. My rant was directed towards those who should know better, which means those who have been in this hobby long enough to learn the ropes - both professionals and enthusiasts.

B.B.

 
At July 15, 2008 1:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Canadian Dad-

First, I believe I said I agreed with most of what B.B was saying.

As far as winners and losers, we are on the same page.

I am in disbelief when I go to a ball game with unlimited strikes or the kids get ice-cream even when they lose. That is not anything like real life.

Matt61,

Your point is what I was speaking about, yes clips and magazines are very different. I am saying we should simply explain the difference without calling people stupid in the process.


Andy Fan

 
At July 15, 2008 1:48 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Cowboy dad,

I can't believe you had that experience! Was that event called the Pinewood Derby, by any chance?

I did the same thing with my young son nearly 30 years ago and he did very well until a wheel came off. The axles were finishing nails and this one wasn't in tight enough.

And I also want to say that this giving of equal recognition (everybody wins) to anyone who competes is the death of personal achievement. It's spititual communism; robbing us of any incentive to try harder. I see it pop up from time to time, and it always hides behind the cloak of compassion and caring, when what it really is is a knife to the throat of anyone who dares try their best. In many ways, class struggles are superior, because at least they put the bigotry out where everyone can see and acknowledge it. This universal rewards crap is spiritual corrosion.

B.B.

 
At July 15, 2008 1:50 PM, Anonymous wayne said...

B.B.

I must jump in here and say, I feel you walk that line very well...

I have not been on this blog for long..only since the first of the year..and I know I asked questions I should have researched first...but you were very kind to my dumb questions...thank you..

Your rant is justified...as far as I am concerned...

Don't forget, Andy Griffith was an actor, who knows how he was in person...

And as far as fictional characters go, I would choose John Walton over Andy...

Wayne

 
At July 15, 2008 1:58 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Matt61,

Well, now we can converse about 1911s on an equal footing.

Don't develop a flinch. When your rounds go to the left (for a right-handed shooter) you are flinching. Another thing I used to see all the time on Army ranges was shooters kicking up dust six feet in front of their positions. They were yanking the trigger in anticipation of the bounce.

I can help you. By handloading/reloading, you can develop cartridges with much less recoil, yet not significantly less power on target. Those are what my wife shot. A full 230-grain hardball round would have been too much for her the first time around.

If you are interested, I can get you started in reloading.

Next, that thumb over the safety is really important. It's the reason manual safeties are shaped the way they are today instead of the way Jon Browning made them.

B.B.

 
At July 15, 2008 2:03 PM, Blogger Lloyd said...

B.B.,
Great exchanges going on here today!
When I was teaching industrial arts in middle school a long time ago, one of my students amusingly identified, on a written test, a "radio alarm saw".
I guess my pronunciation of "radial arm saw" hadn't been quite clear enough. I made the correction (on her test and my pronunciation), and gave her full credit.
I still chuckle about that one.
Lloyd

 
At July 15, 2008 2:03 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm B.B.'s wife. I agree with Cowboy Dad 100%. While children need encouragement, I think most of them understand that everyone does not have equal abilities, and they probably agreed who deserved to win. In fact, if the children ran the race, they probably would have given awards to the winner & one or two runners-up but not the others.

You can't expect achievement when achievement isn't rewarded. I'm guessing that the people who decided there would be no losers have either had children who didn't win at such events or they don't know how to reward a winner without denigrating those who did not win.

 
At July 15, 2008 2:09 PM, Blogger Henry said...

BB,

I live in CT. What would be the consequences of shooting a deer with my pellet riffle? Under $250,000? I googled it but most topics regard legal hunting...

 
At July 15, 2008 2:15 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Henry,

You have asked a legal question that I am not qualified to answer. I almost eliminated your question because of the subject. If this is a real situation, this blog is not the place for it and if it's hypothetical I don't want it on this blog.

B.B.

 
At July 15, 2008 2:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Henry,

What's wrong with you? Obey the state game laws or we all look bad.

D

 
At July 15, 2008 2:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have a Beeman RS2 (which I love)decked out with a Leapers 3x9-40 scope (great recommendation by B.B.). It's bigger and more modern looking than any of my 22 rimfires and in my opinion is a tough looking gun, yet my friends insist on calling it a BB gun. I know that BB guns are cool too, but I just don't think it's an accurate name to give my sweet shooting springer!!

Now that is more like it.

Aaron in MI

 
At July 15, 2008 2:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Mrs. B.B.,

One last try here. I was not saying we should reward mediocrity. But that we simply allow the “noobies” as cowboy dad called them, the opportunity to learn.

I am in the new home construction business. It takes about 30,000 parts to complete a home. I do not expect my customers to know them all. I have had first time buyers ask what a mortgage is. I do not chastise them for their lack of knowledge. I try to help them, without taking an elitist attitude.

Also, thank you to the poster for the information on Andy not being real.

Lastly, B.B. you are obviously a natural leader to have the troops come to your add so quickly. But their is little benefit in taking only the opinion of “yes men”

Does this mean Barney is not real too?

 
At July 15, 2008 2:41 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Aaron,

Sometimes people like to see if they can get a rise out of someone. Your friends may be pulling your leg.

Cecil Whiteside dealt with this by buying a tennis-ball cannon that would also shoot concrete-filled pop cans out of sight (over a half mile). He called it "The World's Biggest BB Gun." The gun was the size of a towed 105 howitzer and impressed everyone who saw it. And after they saw it shoot - no more BB gun!

B.B.

 
At July 15, 2008 2:44 PM, Anonymous rickklages said...

Henry, in New York the consequence of that action assuming you were caught would be confiscation of whatever property was associated with your action, a large fine and a possible period of incarceration. Not a recommended action in my opinion. I think most reasonable people would know this. Why even ask? Your question makes me curious about your motive. Irresponsible air gun handling makes all air gunners look bad. Think about it.

Rick

 
At July 15, 2008 2:45 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Homebuilder,

You go right on expressing your opinion. This blog isn't about leadership. It's about the hobby of airgunning, and you are as welcome as anyone to comment on anything you like.

Just one question for you, though - Fife or Rubble?

B.B.

 
At July 15, 2008 2:47 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Barney,

You build homes & have to explain a mortgage? Maybe that's the reason we're having a mortgage meltdown! People expect to be spoonfed. I had to find out what a mortgage was, and the internet wasn't even invented then. Neither were computers. Libraries...you go there, you borrow a book for free, you read and educate yourself. Oh, wait, I'm sorry. That takes initiative. But, we're not rewarding initiative because we live in a society where no is a loser, so no one tries to do anything on their own.

B.B.'s wife

 
At July 15, 2008 2:51 PM, Anonymous wayne said...

Everybody,

Ain't America Great!!
Super Forum...
I love you all!!!

Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range

 
At July 15, 2008 2:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, the spiritual communism is thriving and not just among kids. I just quit my last job for this same reason. A person was hired who was not qualified but whom people felt sorry for because he was such a "friendly" guy. Then, I found that everyone would accept his moron ideas because poor XXXX's feelings would be hurt otherwise or he would throw a temper tantrum which people wanted to avoid. Then when he went on the offensive and started to encroach on my turf, it was always my fault for resisting him and I just needed to learn to laugh at things and get along with my colleagues. I'll take wildfires anyday. One thing I like about shooting--which might also make it a good teaching tool for responsibility--is that it's just you and the target and the successes and screw-ups are all up to you.

B.B. I don't know about equal footing but the live experience certainly helps. I think I would have known if I was pulling shots into the floor since it was concrete (indoor range). But I can't say where they went either. Thanks for the offer to help with reloading. It is very tempting. But, to quote Clint Eastwood in one of his films, "A man's got to know his limitations." I don't know if right now I'm up to remote learning of all of the details to my satisfaction, and even if I was, I don't know if I would have the time to learn in addition to all of my airgun shooting. Got to keep the priorities in mind. But I'll let you know if I change my mind. I never thought I would ever own firearms much less within a year of picking up airsoft.

I could use your help now, though, on a couple of questions. That's great information about bullet weight and recoil. I went with the 230 grains for the full experience but don't believe my Dad is up to it. What is the lowest legitimate factory load that I could shop around for? Power is not a concern since I am not using the pistol for self-defense.

Secondly, I am working up to field-stripping the pistol and believe I have the procedure worked out in my mind with the aid of my Bill Wilson DVD (and a demo from the irate gun store staff person). There is one thing, though, that completely baffles me. The recoil spring that you pull out early in the field-stripping looks to be under considerable compression so that it is pushing both towards the butt and muzzle. But when the slide recoils from a shot, it is pulled forward under considerable pressure. I'm guessing this is all done by the same spring since I see only one in the field strip process. So, the question is how the same spring is both compressed and extended at the same time. John Browning must have been a genius to pull this off.

Matt61

 
At July 15, 2008 2:59 PM, Blogger E in V said...

Cowboy dad wrote :
"I recently read that the average newspaper has 'dumbed down' their writing level from grade 9 to grade 6.
That inspires confidence in the future of the world!"

Boy, I wish I could have said that in my post earlier today! You summed up some of what I was trying to say...LOL

BG_farmer,

It's not some much a disdain towards all the "alphabet" words we are bombarded with this day and age, its just some of us need a little help to understand it all, me included!

 
At July 15, 2008 3:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.

Yes, I like to stir the pot once in awhile. Thanks for not “cutting me off.” I was half expecting “no soup for you, come back two years”

I hate to think that by clearly explaining processes to folks and having a genuine concern for them, rather than not, I had an adverse effect on the economy. Go figure.

Definitely Fife. I like the idea that he carried single bullet, I mean cartridge. : )

 
At July 15, 2008 3:16 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Matt61,.

The recoil spring (there is usually only one in a 1911, is anchored by the barrel lug. That's why it can push the slide forward. When you disassemble the gun there are several ways to do it and I'm guessing the gun store guy did it the new way, which is to remove the slide with the recoil spring still in it and under compression.

I disassemble the gun by removing the recoil spring before I remove the slide. You have to remove the barrel bushing first to do it that way. If you learn to do it that way, the spring's operation will no longer be a mystery.

I was 15 years old when I got my step dad's 1911 (from WW II) and disassembled it the first time, following instructions in the "Guidebook for Marines." That is one of the best written books on military hardware I have ever seen - and I was in the Army!

Browning WAS a genius, but a 1911 is pretty easy to field strip, once you learn how.

B.B.

 
At July 15, 2008 3:18 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Homebuilder,

You're okay too. Especially now that I know you watched Seinfeld.

B.B.

 
At July 15, 2008 3:29 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Homebuilder,

I don't think Mrs. BB was blaming you for the economy. It was directed at the people that don't make an effort to find the information themselves and want to be spoon fed.

 
At July 15, 2008 3:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.

Ah, so the recoil spring pushes the slide forward. Makes perfect sense. Yes, my method sounds like the new one. Remove barrel bushing, then recoil spring cap; remove slide stop; slide off receiver; take out recoil spring; tap barrel free of slide.

I bought what was labeled as an official army manual on the 1911 dating from the late 60s and found it mostly incomprehensible.

 
At July 15, 2008 3:51 PM, Anonymous wayne said...

Everybody,

I don't watch much TV anymore...rather shoot that watch just about anything...but my wife convinced me I should not miss "Mad Hot Ball Room"...And I am so glad I didn't....she loves netflicks..being out side town a little..
Anyway, it's about young men and women (I think 10 or 12 year olds)..learning to do competive ballroom dancing...it is a true story following 6 or 8 schools, teachers and students to the finals. but the comments from the kids, school principles, and parents were so encouraging, so watch it if you want to lift your spirits and have a little hope for the world...
They learn so much more than dancing... they learned more about treating themselves and others with respect and about the other sex and life, than most adults I know...

And making very important choices that will effect the rest of their lives...And ours as well, if you want a Social Security Check someday...
This movie is soooo on the topic of rewards for excellence...the losers cry like crazy...teachers and students alike....but afterwards talk about how to do better next time...

Also, every person who has anything to do with spending school money on sports or the like should see this movie.....There could not be better bang for the buck than that dancing class program...



Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range

 
At July 15, 2008 4:09 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Matt61,

Yep, you learned the new way. And now you know that most Army manuals are no good. That Guidebook for Marines is available, but a nice one from 1950 will run you $40-50.

B.B.

 
At July 15, 2008 4:17 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Wayne,

Pierre Dulain's program is a real eye-opener, isn't it?

Well, young man, here are a few more excellent videos along the same lines:

Music of the Heart

Knights of the South Bronx

Believe in Me

and

The Final Season

No explanation - you gotta trust me.

B.B.

 
At July 15, 2008 4:38 PM, Blogger Henry said...

Easy guys<<<
Stated to boldly - Sorry. NOT hypothetical - but not my doing. For all you know it was my son.

 
At July 15, 2008 4:46 PM, Anonymous wayne said...

B.B.

Now you have done it..My wife will want me to watch movies instead of shooting all night....

OK on your recommendation I will try them...
Actually I have seen two of them...

Thanks again for a great forum..

Wayne

 
At July 15, 2008 4:53 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cement filled pop cans huh? I wonder what the back yard black birds would think about one of those zipping out the window at 10,000 feet per second!! Now would that be a bullet or a cartridge?

Seriously.. I don't think I have my scope mounted high enough on my RS2. I'm pretty accurate to 25 yard but I have to dial my scope all the way up and I'm not real accurate beyond that range. It's a leapers 3x9-40 and I'm only using the mounts that came with the gun. (which came with a 3-9x32) I know I need higher mounts and I know you recommend the b squared adjustable a lot, but I was hoping I could find something a little cheaper but still able to hold up to an airgun. Possible?

Great conversation on here today. You guys (and girls - Mrs. B.B.) are great.

Thanks,
Aaron in MI

 
At July 15, 2008 5:00 PM, Anonymous rickklages said...

Regarding Barney Fife; beware the man with one cartridge! In the day the show was produced only being allowed to carry one round was probably funny to a more or less more gun savvy society. Nowadays audiences might assume the one round was for himself. Or was that the message all along. Makes me wonder.

Anon, sorry for the lecture. I know there are supposed to be no bad questions. Reminds me of the time an Army NCO stated if you could see a target you could engage it with a M60 machine gun (sights are graduated out to 1100 M ). An Air Force (USAF) A1C then asked rhetorically; I can see the moon! can I engage the moon? The Sgt. without missing a beat replied simply NO. You cannot engage the moon with small arms. His attitude indicated that he thought Air Force personnel had no business carrying firearms.

Rick

 
At July 15, 2008 5:13 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Aaron,

The BSA mount is an adjustable for less money and it might work.

B.B.

 
At July 15, 2008 5:24 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Rick,

The Army NCO was correct. Air Force personnel should just drive their bus and leave the loud and sharp things to daddy.

By the way, you CAN engage the moon. I remember one time at Grafenwoer when we were shooting REAL sabot rounds (the ones with the depleted uranium penetrator) and a tank shot one with HEP (high explosive, plasticized) indexed in the fire control computer. They say that round either went into orbit or landed in East Germany.

HEP is very slow, so the tank gun elevates very high for a long shot. Sabot is very fast and travels very flat for very far.

That was with an M60A! tank - not the machine gun, by the way. And you CAN engage the moon - you just can't hit it from here.

B.B.

 
At July 15, 2008 5:29 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.

I can't give the army points for that manual, but I can for something else that is a propos to our discussion.

My Dad, for all of his griping about his brief army hitch, certainly got a lot out of it and not just his Sharpshooter rating. During his MOS as a clerk/typist he forgot to arrange for an instructor to teach a class for medics. When he went to tell his sergeant that they would have to cancel, the sergeant told him that he would teach the class. When my Dad said that he didn't know anything about it, the sergeant said: "That hour has to be filled. That's the army way. Since you screwed up, you teach the class."

And this, my Dad said, turned out not only to be the right thing in principle but also a great stroke of luck. Since he really knew nothing about medicine, he decided to arrange a sort of debriefing where the medics talked to each other about what worked for them and what didn't. Thanks to stultifying army manuals like I read, they really got into it and thanked him for the class afterwards. He was inspired to go on to his 35 year career in college teaching.

And the sergeant was big enough to come up afterwards and say, "I was watching, and I thought you would really crash. But that was a very good job."

So, holding to a standard not only teaches people about next time but can even make them call on resources they didn't know were there. I've thought that this is a larger principle than psychology that I've seen in engineering, and perhaps it applies in some form to different aspects of shooting. Put a system under moderate stress and solutions will emerge.

Matt61

 
At July 15, 2008 6:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB-

I passed right by the BSA mount previously so thanks for pointing it out. After looking at it though I'm skeptical of how well it would stand up to the pounding from a springer. I shoot a lot!! I guess the lesson is, when it comes to adjustable scope mounts, and pretty much everything else, you get what you pay for.

I'm thinking to save some bucks, I'll just get a set of these -

Leapers Accushot 1" Rings, High, 9.5-11.5mm Dovetail.

I'm sure they are taller than the ones I've got and for $10 and leapers, I can't go wrong right?

The adjustable mounts will have to wait..

Thanks,

Aaron In MI

 
At July 15, 2008 7:59 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Of course, I am no perfect person in any way shape or form. I feel that I am much more patient with people than the average Joe, and have been told so many times by many different folks. But, I still get irritated about semantic flub-ups, and sometimes I am even amused. My grandfather referred to tarantula spiders as "kranchlers". My mother calls cheddar chesse "chedda" and she is not from the east...also meat marinade is "marinara". My wife pronounces the word mine as ming(long I). My dad prints to a fax.
I could go on and on. Help me...I am losing my patience.
--Davee1

 
At July 15, 2008 8:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB - Great Blog. We really have dumbed ouselves down. It's not that we're less intelligent, it's that we do what's expected of us, and not very much is expected of us.

My two pet peeves are (1) people adding "-self" to all of their pronouns [BB and myself love to shoot.] and (2) improper use of acronyms [HIV Virus, SAT Test, I even heard MSRP Price in a car ad].

I try to ignore wrong word usage [their/there/they're is probably the worst, followed closely by sight/cite/site] and other mispellings, but there is nothing wrong with expecting people to use the right terminology, especially in a technical field. Words mean things and they matter. Use the right terms and people will eventually learn them.

A little common sense should be used however. A salesman talking to a client [the mortgage example] should hold a lower standard than a Drill Sergeant talking to a trainee. [Lots of push-ups for calling your M16 a "gun".]

Thanks, I'm all better now.

Randy in VA

 
At July 15, 2008 8:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rick,

Enjoyed your observation that Barney may have kept that single round for himself.

After all, it was the cold war era, and he may have felt it would be a better alternative – then say moving North of the Mason Dixon line.

Anyone, any ideas for a nickname for me? I’m the bad man who expressed his opinion earlier.
I prefer nothing work related, who wants to be reminded of work? “twotalon” is a cool one, but it is taken and I don’t even own a talon. I could be “notalon”

If all else fails “T-Bone” would work.
B.B. – you should know the origin of this.

Homebuilder for now.

 
At July 15, 2008 10:32 PM, Anonymous BG_Farmer said...

Randy in VA,

I share your irritation with those that add the reflexive "-self" without reason, but my pet peeve is improper use of pronoun cases. Example: "The salesman gave my wife and I an excellent demonstration." The person who says these types of things is educated enough to avoid "me" as the subject, but not well enough to understand English grammar, so he simply uses "I" for everything.

Homebuilder,

I'm sympathetic to your original post, although nowhere near as patient as you appear to be. There's a definite difference between gentle correction and arrogance. "Parcere subiectis et debellare superbos" is a useful notion in these cases.

 
At July 15, 2008 11:36 PM, Anonymous wayne said...

Homebuilder,

My dad and I (or is it me)...I didn't really care 40 years ago...I was making $20 per hour in 8 grade helping my dad and grandfather building homes in Southern California...I am sorry to say, I was not interested in the public schools...I knew what I was doing for the rest of my life...Or thought I did...
I was building my own designs (I did take two years of architecture) from building permit to roofing, when I was 20...
Of course you could buy a building lot for $500 and sell the house for $20,000 in 1969.... making $5,000 and $30 per hr. I wish I had rented some of them instead of selling them...It was easy to get into building then, and there were a lot of trade and good paying manufacturing jobs.. Kids could make a living without much education... I can't see how you can be a builder these days..costs and all..

But anyway, I am working on spelling and grammar now, 40 years later, so please help me out anyone, it won't hurt my feelings a bit..

As far as nicknames go...did you see "Little Big Man"..."bad man who expressed his opinion earlier", is a little long but very poetic don't you think...we are all in a hurry these days to type quickly, so how about BMW for short...are you fast and expensive to repair?..Or how about Custer... or Custurd....wasn't he a bad guy?

PS..Welcome aboard,(if I am allowed to welcome, its not my blog)... this was one of the best blogs I have read....

Wayne,

 
At July 15, 2008 11:53 PM, Anonymous .22 multi-shot said...

BB,

I would like to request a blog devoted to a glossary of airgun terms. I know I've misused and still don't know many terms.

Thank you,
.22 multi-shot

 
At July 15, 2008 11:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain...

 
At July 16, 2008 12:58 AM, Anonymous rickklages said...

B.B.,
I was assigned to the Air Force version of the Army. You know; the one without marching and foxholes. Instead we had air conditioning and maid service. As you can imagine it was tough.

The organization I was in was dreamed up by a guy named Curtis LeMay. It was called the Strategic Air Command. I was trained as Security Police (AFSC 81170). I did more security than policing. They taught me how to shoot guns (M16, XM203, M60, M15, SBF92). It was fun. I was a good student and learned my lessons well. Army instructors have an average IQ of about 80 (still smarter than Marines).

We didn't have any Tanks (we did but not the sort that your thinking of). We did have a lot of long shiny things that were sometimes bolted on to airplanes; I was told they were thermonuclear weapons. I did learn how to drive a bus.

I've now lived under the manual of arms for more than 22 years. Some of the best marksmen I've ever met came out of the Air Force. I'm just a Police Officer now but once I was a SAC trained killer.

SSgt Rick Klages USAF (ret)

 
At July 16, 2008 4:11 AM, Blogger Bob from Oz said...

G'day BB

"Okay" sez he". "Sez" is not in the English dictionary but should be since as a kid I always had difficulty in the pronounciation of "says". I used to get ribbed for years and have never forgotten it.

But we have for instance words pronounced exactly the same and mean a whole lot different such as..weather (hot or cold)...whether(left or right)...wether(unlucky ram).

Its a pretty tough language but in some emails I have seen... if the start and ending letters are correct and the right number/ correct letters between the two you can still understand what the word is. Such as "trehe is a prlboem wtih our cldhiern's eoiductan"

Cheers Bob

 
At July 16, 2008 6:33 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Homebuilder,

I'm working on a handle for you. Sorry that T-Bone is takes (George).

BG_Farmer,

In your Latin lesson you forgot quando omni flunkus moritati.

B.B.

 
At July 16, 2008 6:38 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

.22 multi-shot,

I thought we had a glossary. Let me get back to you on that.

B.B.

 
At July 16, 2008 6:42 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

SSGT Klages,

I hope you realize that I was joking when I said that. B.B. Pelletier is not even my real name! I am really called Homebuilder and I never know where I will be living, but my FBI handlers always do.

B.B.

 
At July 16, 2008 6:46 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Bob from Oz,

Yeah, but you guys say "cracky" to express surprise and call your friends "mates," so how can we believe anything you say?

B.B.

 
At July 16, 2008 10:01 AM, Blogger Rabbitt said...

BB and Bob from Oz. I always thought that was "crikey" I'd hate to get it wrong should I ever have the chance to visit down under.

Oh and BB. From a retired (24 years) AF "Bus Driver".

"OUCH"

(But I guess I do deserve it for my shooting myself in the hand stupident. I am now Laughing Out Loud.)

See. Isn't LOL better for getting the emotion and point across?

BTW - As a kid growing up I don't ever remember the masked man leaving a silver cartridge behind. :-)

 
At July 16, 2008 11:08 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rough crowd. It was insinuated that I caused the failure of the economy, support communism, and have ruined the youth of America and Canada.

This all a result of preferring a lenient stance with new comers to the shooting sports as there are way too few.

Now, I believe I have been likened to Mr. Hill. I don’t mind the other accusations, but I assure you I am a stand up guy.

HB

 
At July 16, 2008 12:27 PM, Anonymous rickklages said...

B.B.,
I think I know your real name (or is it your nome de plume?) Remember the Air Force is a direct result of the Army not being able or willing to embrace the antics of Orville and Wilber. If they had you wouldn't be seeing line items in the budget for $500,000.00 aircraft toilet covers.

I think the following adequately expresses the difference in philosophy between the services.

Ask the Marines to secure a building they will post a squad and maybe dig in. The Army will post a sentry. The Navy will turn off the lights and lock the door. The Air Force will get a 5 year lease with the option to buy.

All the best,

Rick

 
At July 16, 2008 1:28 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Rabbitt,

Okay, now I'm LOL!

B.B.

 
At July 16, 2008 2:35 PM, Blogger Rabbitt said...

BTW HB or perhaps I should call you professor?

How is the marching band in River City coming along? Uniforms and instruments come in yet?

(I'm trusting I caught the reference correctly?)

I believe he was a stand up guy in the end was he not?

Ok. Make sure you see the BIG SMILE that is here. :-)

 
At July 16, 2008 2:42 PM, Anonymous Joe B. from Erie, PA said...

About that moon shot:

Back in the '60s, when underground nuclear tests were still the norm,Some of these tests included a "vent hole". Someone wondered what would happen to an object on top of one of these holes. They placed a gigantic manhole cover on one, solid steel five feet in diameter and one foot thick, and filmed it with a high speed camera. Examining the films after the shot, they calculated that the disc was traveling at two and a half times exit velocity (speed needed to get into space). It's still out there, getting further away every second. I suppose with proper timing, it could be made to impact the moon.

I wonder what the power factor would be for that shot?

Joe B.

 
At July 16, 2008 3:13 PM, Anonymous BG_Farmer said...

BB,

My Latin is a little rusty, so I had to look that up:)[Quando omni flunkus moritate]. So, we gave up on Latin 50 years ago, dumbed-down English instruction, and invented ever more elaborate ways to avoid simple arithmetic. Amazing progress. Now it takes a PhD to equal a high school diploma back when we were all ignorant. In my opinion, a badly educated populace is as vulnerable as an unarmed one.

 
At July 16, 2008 3:44 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

BG_Farmer,

Orwell talked about Newspeak limiting the ability to think for oneself. I think we've just about achieved it with a combination of the internet, text messaging and the general decline of the language.

When I was in school in the late '50s and early '60s I remember kids arguing with the teachers that they would never need to know algebra or how to diagram a sentence. Those same people today cannot calculate percentages, ratios, nor can they communicate anything beyond what they see in the media. And their children and grandchildren? I shudder to think!

B.B.

 
At July 16, 2008 4:04 PM, Anonymous wayne said...

B.B.

OUCH!!!
Maybe it is good I don't have grandchildren yet....but I do own 3 business...
I am sorry I can't diagram a sentence, (my wife can)...but I was right about Algebra....Excel does that for me...

What happened to respect for those who work hard to get ahead and start early.....

Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range

 
At July 16, 2008 5:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wayne...I don't think any of this has been aimed at you...whether you can diagram a sentence or not, you have a damn find grasp of the lanquage.
I think what we are talking about here is the total lack of communication skills we see now.
The last stats I have from the National Centre for Educational Statistics (admittedly a couple of years old) say that only 35% of American grade 12 students reach the 'proficient' level (however they determine that). The rest were below...not above.

I deal at times with hiring people. I'm truly aghast at some of the written resumes we receive...improper spelling, lack of capitals, abbreviations that only someone familiar with text messaging is going to 'get' and sentences that once read leave you shaking your head, wondering just what the person was trying to say.
I recently was handed a resume from a 1st year technical school student applying for a summer sales job in a photography studio.
One question asked his background in photography:

"i tok a lot of piktures last year wen I was on holday so i figerd it wood be a cool sumer job"

That was exactly the way it read...this from an 18 year old hoping someday to be an instument tech in the oil industry.
Problem was that when talking to him in person he actually was quite intelligent...he just didn't know how to write or spell.

I know that 20 years ago or so there was a movement in the school system (at least in Canada) to worry less about grammar than before...for awhile they actually experimented with the idea that as long as the words sounded 'right' they would pass.
In the above example the words sound right (I guess), but they sure aren't easy to read or make sense of. I'd hate to think this person does go on to become an instrument tech who would be filling out reports on sensitive equipment where the mis-reading of said reports could result in safety issues.

 
At July 16, 2008 7:34 PM, Anonymous wayne said...

Thanks,
No harm done..

I really wish my communications skills were better...I spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to spell a word...or re-phasing a sentence, because I can't guess it...I know my lack of work in school has cost me greatly..

Yes, it scares me that some of the people you talk about might be in charge of an airport tower or skippering an oil tanker..

"by gones"

Wayne,

 
At July 16, 2008 8:09 PM, Blogger Bob from Oz said...

BB & Rabbitt

Poor old Steve Irwin (Crocodile Hunter) was a "crikey" exclaimer but the rest of us not on TV use the current universal expletive which usually starts with an "f" or "s" and usually followed by "me".

Now as far as “mate” goes, you Yanks could learn from this universal Oz word. Firstly it can be applied to either gender as a greeting or an endearment “G’day Mate”.

This is very useful when you have forgotten their name and most useful now Dementia/Alzheimers is approaching. No embarrassing moments when you meet people and it still gives you time to hopefully find out their name.

Cheers Bob

 
At July 16, 2008 8:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Crittercontroller said "Hey BB,
I got one to add. After a long day of hunting with my friend he said he wished his Gamo Big Cat had "laser optic sights". So a week later was his birthday and i baught him the laser and light kit from BSA. He loves it and gets more use out of it than i thaught he would. Though he loves it, apparently he ment "fiber optic sights" ins stead of "laser" optic sights. But oh well he likes the laser. A quick question BB, what red dot sight would you reccomend for a breakbarrel rifle like the Beeman RS1, or for a pistol like the cCosman 1377?"

There is still a problem with pots calling kettles black:
"After a long day of hunting with my friend he said..." who was hunting and who did the saying?

"baught" ??! and "thaught", and "ment" ???

If you are going to criticize someone and join the "woe is the language" group, you have to pay more attention to your own writing. Please?

 
At July 16, 2008 9:14 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tom,

You are a wise man.

However, I’ve never been called a professor, or a Music Man.

It is interesting to see that the responses are already over one hundred on a two-day-old blog.

Wayne – Thank you for the suggestion, but I will pass on BMW for a handle. I am a Volvo guy. I would like to hear how your AA 410 is noise wise compared to your Springers. I have been considering getting one. Do you use a hand pump?

HB

 
At July 17, 2008 12:18 AM, Anonymous wayne said...

HB,

Now you've done it...I've been a Volvo guy since 1968, when my dad bought a 1968 242 new off the floor for $2,870, and we drove it from S. Cal. to Joplin MO. in 30 hours.....My dad wanted to break it in right....I got that car and put 400,000 on that little 4 banger...BTW..they do go 115mph...there was no speed limit in Nevada...and a caddie got my dads goat...I got it up to 95 and said that will do..but I was 18 then..

Now I buy 92 to 95 960s, we have 4 of them as sales and delivery cars...the 24 valve OHC six is smooth as a tunned Beeman HW77..And the wagons can carry 1,000 lbs. of lumber and pull a 3,000 trailer at the same time...getting 18-20mpg...then 24 on the way home...
see, now you've done it B.B. will never get his blog back..I'll talk volvos and the S410 from now on..

Yes the S410 is very, very, very quite..... almost like a cap gun (and at 1050fps with air arms 8.44 gr .177, just tested them today, surprised me how fast)... and the power adjuster is so nice..
There is no kick, anyone can shoot this gun right from the start....and getting 10 shots off with out changing my shooting position, in the time I get 2 or 3 with the TX200, gets a whole lot more practice in for me. (both as accurate for me, the TX200 the most quite springer I have, and the S410 is maybe 30% more quite), ...
To me the beauty alone is enough reason to buy the 410, it is a collectors item for sure...I want to really take care of this one...but this is also the most practical all around air gun a person could hope for, as far as I know...

I'm really glad I went for the scuba tanks, get two or three and they should give them to you for $150 each...only $5 for 3,300 lb fill..then you can fill your gun in minutes, many many times..and get 60 shots per fill, with no drop in POI.
The problem is the scuba shop guy is trying to get me started in another hobby...

How about P1800 for a handle..I have a friend who is restoring one..

Yes, this is a pretty long blog...you got it stirred up great...it is a very tasty soup...thanks

Wayne,

 
At July 17, 2008 7:03 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Volvo (formerly Housebuilder),

Like Pharaoh before you, you have named the last plague yourself - or in this case, identified your handle. Anyone who drives a box deserves our respect.

B.B.

 
At July 17, 2008 7:53 AM, Anonymous wayne said...

B.B.
They maybe a "box, but the old ones go 4 to 500,000 on an engine and trans.... and you can buy one with 150,000 miles for about $2,500 and drive for another 300,000 miles with normal maint...the cost to operate these cars per mile is only .22 on average, (before gas got to $4.00)...they corner and drive like a very nice "box".. but don't get the new 850 or v70s. Since Ford bought them they went to hell..the 960s are super luxury...and very safe...the S410 in cars...

Wayne,

 
At July 17, 2008 8:46 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Wayne,

I actually like Volvos - even though I blew up the engine of my 1974 242 on the German Autobahn while driving with the pedal to the floor for a sustained 15 minutes.

B.B.

 
At July 17, 2008 8:54 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cowboy day here.
This thread has taken some interesting turns.
I've owned two Volvo's...a '74 142GL and a '88 242DL. Both went 500000km before I got rid of them.
A sad story behind the 142. I had owned it 10 years, 500000km and it was still going strong. It had been all over the US and Canada but the new 242's sure looked nice.
After all those miles...very little rust and never in an accident I sold it to a friend. Two weeks after they had it they tried to follow another car into the underground garage in their apartment building. The big overhead door 'beat them to the draw', closed on the hood (the door was old enough not to have saftey sensors) and it crushed the hood and front fenders... a write off.
It really annoyed me how stupid that was.
Unfortunatley as the Volvo has become 'swoopier' and now sits at around 40K+ here in Canada I've switched to Toyota's. My current Previa (a gem...a rear wheel drive, mid engined 'sports' minvan) now has 430000km and is going strong.

 
At July 17, 2008 9:27 AM, Anonymous wayne said...

Ain't life great!!!

New things to learn everyday....

Thanks every body..

Wayne,

 
At July 17, 2008 10:12 AM, Anonymous wayne said...

Oh, and that was a 142 my dad bought in 1968...the fuel injected 240 series started in 1974, I think...

I've never been to Germany...but the Nevada desert must be a lot like the German Autobahn...that's the only place to do that stuff..or a track..or maybe I-94 in Montana..some of those trucks must be going 90mph..

Wayne

 
At July 17, 2008 6:03 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tom I believe we peaked with the WWI-WWII generation, those born between 1900-1945. My generation (I was born in 1966)and those after mine, is so self centered. My Great Uncle, who is a Marine and lost his twin brother at Pearl, is a man among men. My Father was born in 1930 and served as a Marine in Korea, was a man among men. The kids now days.......IDK. Just kidding Tom I couldn't resist. From SavageSam. I'm going to start using SS if no one objects.

 
At July 18, 2008 1:09 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Right on!

 
At July 18, 2008 3:53 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Everyone knows we Baby Boomers are the high-water mark. Typically, we spoiled ourselves.

The only mistake we made was to spoil our kids. My grandson has more toys at 2 years old then I had in my entire childhood.

My favorite was a Daisy lever action BB gun. Surprise. No wood on the fore stock area - would have been made around 1965. Anyone know where I could find a LNIB example – let me know.

Volvo

 
At July 18, 2008 5:16 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Volvo,

You probably had a model 102. They show up at the airguns shows but are listed online less frequently.

Gun Broker might have one though.

www.gunbroker.com

Also go to Daisy's site and get into their chat forum. They buy and sell all kinds of Daisys there.

B.B.

 
At July 18, 2008 5:38 PM, Anonymous wayne said...

B.B. & All

My problem with the boomer generation is that they won't give as good as they got...especially congress...
The way we rip off the kids today for their schooling, getting them in debt to the credit card companies and student loans, for an education that is really worthless in an economy that has no manufacturing jobs.

The congress that sold out to the banks, got a free education and had great jobs and low inflation...

What do we give the kids of today?
Low paying service jobs,
At debt to start their lives with,
No chance to own a home for an affordable price,
A polluted world,
A Debt the USA has to pay off in future taxes...(what happened to the surplus we started the Bush admin. with...)

Welcome to the planet kids...

Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range

 
At July 18, 2008 9:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Should the artillery hold also be used in the standing position? (As in pest control activities) Kevin

 
At July 19, 2008 7:41 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Kevin,

If you can use the artillery hold offhand it will be the most accurate. That's why target shooters use it.

B.B.

 

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