Sorting pellets and what to expect

by B.B. Pelletier

We’ve got a guest blog today. FredProNJ, also known as CycleAlleyRiders, has been sorting and weighing pellets to see if he could detect a difference in accuracy among the different groups.

If you’d like to write a guest post for this blog, please email us.

Bloggers must be proficient in the simple html that Blogger software uses, know how to take clear photos and size them for the internet (if their post requires them), and they must use proper English. We’ll edit each submission, but we won’t work on any submission that contains gross misspellings and/or grammatical errors.

Take it away, Fred!

by Fred — People’s Republik of NJ

As my education in airguns progressed from total ignorance to semi-literacy, the last thing that occurred to me was that sorting pellets would make a significant difference in accuracy, be it target practice or hunting. I was under the impression that after you tried as many types of pellets as possible to see what worked best in your rifle or pistol, you were done. Weren’t you? As I learned on this blog, the answer is absolutely not. It’s vital to weigh and sort your pellets if you hope to be competitive in any type of airgun competition. Just ask Wayne Burns or the Apelles’ — all serious shooters who occasionally make comments on this blog. While B.B. was in the hospital, one of the things he asked of the blog readers was to weigh and sort their pellets, shoot the different groups and report the results on this blog.

Since I had a significant number of RWS Superpoint Extra pellets in my collection, I decided to use them. I’ve found other pellets to be more accurate in my RWS rifles, but I felt everything was relative and the increased or reduced size of my groupings might be more dramatic with a so-so pellet.
My scale was an inexpensive Frankford Arsenal digital scale that costs less than $20. These scales are normally used by reloaders and can be found at any well-stocked sporting goods store that caters to reloaders.


Note the calibration weight in the upper right of the photo.

While the pellet tin advertises a weight of 14.3 grains, I found pellets varying from 14.0 to 14.7 grains. The majority of the pellets weighed 14.3 on my scale, and 10 were set aside. I also randomly picked 20 pellets; 10 of them were marked with a Sharpie where the seam was left from the dies on the pellet body. The test was to shoot 10 randomly picked pellets, the 10 weighed pellets and then the 10 pellets with the orientation mark loaded into the rifle’s port the same way.


The seam is easily visible in this photo.

I planned to do my shooting with an RWS 46 in .22 cal. This is a medium-powered underlever spring-piston rifle and was the first one I bought. My chronograph showed this rifle would shoot the 14.3-gr. pellet 643 fps and achieve an energy of around 13 ft-lbs. The range first used was my basement range, which allowed me a 29 ft from muzzle to target. The rifle was rested on my palm, and my elbow rested on a rolled up blanket.


My RWS 46 was drafted to do all the testing.

With unsorted pellets, I achieved a group of .52 inches. The pellets sorted by weight gave me a slightly smaller group of .495 inches, while the pellets sorted by orientation achieved a group of .561 inches. These numbers are all full measurements, not center-to-center figures. As the pellet head for an RWS Superpoint Extra measures .212 inches, purists can just subtract this from the group numbers for center-to-center figures.


Target “A” was shot with unsorted pellets, while target “B” was shot with weighed pellets. Target “C” was shot with oriented pellets that were not weighed.

I felt these results were not too conclusive, so a longer range was needed to bring out any major differences, and I made plans to head for the local municipal pistol range. There, I would have a range of 35 yards. Again, I sorted pellets by weight, but this time I set aside 20 pellets weighing 14.3 gr. and half were marked with the Sharpie where the seam was visible. I hoped that any difference in groupings between the sorted pellets that were inserted into the rifle port randomly and those inserted the same way every time, would show a difference. I also changed my shooting technique at the pistol range. I sat in a chair, the rifle stock lay on my open hand, which was resting on a rolled up blanket.


A close-up of the pistol range.


Doesn’t appear so close when you’re back at the firing port.

The unsorted pellets produced a group of 2.25 inches. Next, a bit of controversy as I ignored two pellet holes in my sorted, unoriented group. I moved just as I fired these two pellets, putting one outside the bull at 11 o’clock and one at 3 o’clock, so this group has only 8 pellets. My group was a much-improved 1.41 inches. If I included the two pellets that I fired as I flinched, the group would 2.15 inches. Finally, the sorted and oriented pellets produced a group of 1.84 inches, just .40 inches larger than the unoriented but sorted group. All 10 pellets were counted in this group.


Target “F” had the weighed and oriented pellets shot at it.

Keeping in mind that we’re comparing a group of 8 pellets to 10 pellets, this alone could account for the size difference. When I next have the time, I’ll reshoot this portion of the test to see what, if any, difference is obtained between sorted and oriented vs. nonoriented pellets. Personally, I didn’t see any significant differences from the first test (.56 inches vs. .52 inches/random vs. random but oriented pellets).

Weighing pellets produced a group almost .50 inches smaller than unsorted, enough of a difference to make up a number of positions in field target competition. In addition, that long-range head shot you’re taking at that tree rat will actually be on target. It’s very discouraging to watch the squirrel drop his head in a flinch reaction as the pellet passes harmlessly above him and then take off like a squirrel running for his life…which he is. Don’t ask me how I know this.

96 Responses to “Sorting pellets and what to expect”

  • Edith Gaylord Says:

    Don’t know why today’s blog didn’t publish on time. It was set for the right time. I had to publish it manually. Sorry for the delay!

    Edith

  • J-F Says:

    No problem for me as long as I get my daily fix.
    Hi my name is J-F and I’m an airgun-academy blog junkie, there I admit it. ;)
    I was pressing refresh frantingly and checking trough my iPhone web browser to be sure it wasn’t computer acting up, clearing cache memory, checking with Google chrome and IE… but it’s finally here… aaaaah I’m feeling better now.

    Since people kept raving about the Izh-61, I finally have a Izh-60 (I didn’t trust the plastic mags) and a daisy model 25 on the way, can’t wait to get them. I hope my next order will include the marauder pistol, the collection is growing and I’m starting to wonder where to put them is this a good thing ? When do you know you have an airgun addiction ?

    J-F

    • Edith Gaylord Says:

      J-F,

      I’m an expert at detecting airgun addicts. You’re one of them :-) As if that weren’t enough, you’re also an airgun blog junkie :-)

      Edith

    • C-S Says:

      Easy for you to say J-F my day has started 7 hours ago ;) i am just kidding but i have started to think that weekend has began :) !!!

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      J-F,

      You never know that you are addicted. Others have to intervene.

      B.B.

    • Fused Says:

      I know I’m not addicted, I can stop anytime I want. Honest… no really… But first I have to…

    • CJr Says:

      You’re all wrong about addiction. You forgot an earlier post that stated that if you know how many guns you have you’re not addicted and you don’t have enough guns.
      -CJr

      • J-F Says:

        Then I’m not addicted ! I only have 5, oh no wait I have 9, hmm no 11, should I count handguns ? Because that would make… 13 no 15. Ooops wait I forgot my crosman 2289… are they pistol or rifle they can be both and I have two of those (I got a really great deal on the second one, I couldn’t pass on it)… how about those I just ordered… they’re mine I paid for them but they aren’t in my possession yet so… how about the disassembled one ? Oh man what’s the point… I’m screwed, I am an airgun addict (and proud of it ;) ).

  • KidAgain Says:

    Fred,

    Nice job! It sounds like weighing is more effective than orientation. I like the ‘range’ you’ve got there. I have to use my side yard, open to the elements.

    KA

  • kevin Says:

    Fred,

    Great job! Weighing pellets does matter. I don’t wash, orient skirts or lube pellets much anymore. Only have one pcp that lubed pellets make a difference. Is it me or are the pictures of your two targets out of order for the article?

    kevin

    • Edith Gaylord Says:

      Kevin,

      The caption for the first target references bullseyes A, B and C…but not target F, which is unshot. The caption for the second target references bullseye F, which has been shot. I just rechecked Fred’s original submission, and the targets in this published blog were inserted in the same location where he inserted them. The copy for the rest of the article may not be appropriately placed in reference to the targets, but I’ll let Tom take care of addressing that later. We may edit the blog to move things around just a bit to make things clearer.

      Edith

      • CYCLEALLEYRIDERS Says:

        Hi Kevin,

        the targets are correctly inserted in the Blog. Yes the groups look neater in the second one, shot at 35 yards, than the first one shot at 9 yards but the measurements tell the story. I purposely used bullseye “f” as I thought my groups would expand more and perhaps overlap on bullseye “c”.

        Fred

  • kevin Says:

    JTinAL,

    Good to hear from you! Hope to hear more when the dust settles. I haven’t heard from FrankB in awhile either. Hope all is well with him.

    kevin

  • Fused Says:

    C-S, thanks for asking. I received my stock of pellets along with the UTG base and rings yesterday. I shot 10 yard groups with each pellet, starting out with 10 rounds just to get the barrel used to the new pellet and then 2 groups of 5 rounds each. So far my findings in order from least to most accurate are:
    RWS Hobby’s – Sorry man, I know you like them but they just weren’t so accurate in mine. Best part about them is that they punch perfect little holes, problem was that those perfect holes weren’t very close together. I will, however, say that each of the groups teased me with 2 or 3 shots that went exactly through the same hole. Maybe in light of todays blog, they would be extremely accurate if weighed and sorted.
    Beeman Field Target Specials – About the same size groups as with the Hobby’s but without the teasers.
    JSB 14.3 – Noticeably better accuracy. I believe we have a winner here. The groups were tight and circular. I’m looking forward to moving them to 20 yards this weekend. I’ll report back and let you know what I find.
    Crosman Premier Domed – Already had these, but decided to test along with the rest. At 10 yards, the groups have always been pretty good, just slightly larger than with the JSB’s. It was the 20 yard groups that opened way up, but that was before the upgraded scope mounting and with open sights. I’m testing them again this weekend as well.

    I am really impressed with the UTG mounting system. I seems rock solid, although I wish I would have ordered the low rings. I have a 40mm objective and it’s sitting way, way up high.

    Dean, what have you found so far?

  • Volvo Says:

    FredProNJ,

    Nice write up. I have to admit I am usually too lazy weigh every pellet. I will test types to see if they are acceptable, and that’s about it. I never miss the chance to spare others disappointment, so avoid .25 caliber Milbro Rhinos. Advertised on the tin as 19.1 grains they actually run from 17.1 to 18.7. They were the least consistent of anything I every measured.

    Of course the pointed pellets you’re using ad the variable of the point itself, so if a reader wants to ring every last ounce of accuracy out of his rifle they should stick to a round nose.

    I have to agree with Kevin that the targets are flip flopped in the posting, or the farther away the target is the better you get. In which case you are stone cold killer at 35 yards.

    Thanks for blog!

    • CYCLEALLEYRIDERS Says:

      Volvo,

      thank you for the kind words. When I shot the closer target in my basement, I was shooting “off-hand”. My rifle was in my palm but my elbow was used as the resting point so there was more movement involved plus I was standing up. The second target was made using a true “bench rest” position for a spring piston rifle. Trust me, if I shot at the second target the same way as the first, it would appear to have been shot with a shotgun with a full open choke!

      Fred PRoNJ

  • C-S Says:

    Fused no i dont mind :) i think that we here dont even have JSB or Beeman pellets :/ today i have (again)remove gamo 4 x 32 scope .I have give second chance to scope but it simply -doesn t -work and it is frustrating mechanichal sights are ok allthou on wooden classic they are like the one that Panther have -PLASTIC

  • C-S Says:

    All domed pellets are good but RWS Superpoint -is good but they are soft and i have found that 10% of pellets were half smashed in a tin (or i am just an exeption dont know)buth otherwise they are good

  • sk Says:

    the shots are to the left this happens to me most of the time. Anybody how to over come this

  • cowboystar dad Says:

    I’ll be picking up some scales this weekend.
    To be truthful I’ve hit a wall. I shoot 4 or 5 nights a week in my basement range (30′) and it has gotten…boring. I usually shoot 20 practice and then 20 keepers, and as I mentioned yesterday (I think) for the last 3 aor 4 months I’m nailed to 192/200.
    Can’t justify a coach.
    Can’t buy a new Olympic class rifle (though I have started to look for the suggested used FWB600 or some such).
    Last night I made the decision to lay off of the 10yd shooting for the summer. It’s lookng to be a great summer weather-wise…the boys have their new pellet rifles and we have joined a great outdoor range. So I figure we’ll spend the summer shooting longer distance.
    To this end someone posted on another site the shooting he’d been doing lately replicating the record sniper kills in Afghanistan using ChairGun and a scoped 500fps rifle. To equate a 1000yd .308 shot to .177 using ChairGun you need to try hitting a popcan at 100yds.
    That’s my new aim.
    But I digress….
    I will try sorting my pellets. Up till now I found the best working pellets in my 853c to be the RWS R-10 Match. I’m sure they are consistent, but if weighing and sorting them gives me one more 10 an evening…up goes my score.

    • twotalon Says:

      Those must be some pretty big taliban.
      A soda can at 100 yds equates to 25″ at 1000 yds (in width). Pretty big kill zone.
      Try empty .22 brass at 25-30 yds. That still might be a bit generous.

      twotalon

      • cowboystar dad Says:

        twotalon…in the test he is considering the pop can to represent the torso of a human. A .308 in the foot, whilst painful isn’t going to kill you.
        10 popcans stacked on top of one another approximates the distance from your crotch to your head.

        • twotalon Says:

          Man, I never met anyone that big. 10 5″ tall pop cans is 50″.

          twotalon

        • twotalon Says:

          We are talking about standard 12 oz cans , right?? Have seen bigger, but not smaller, except for some stubby colt 45 cans a long time ago.

          twotalon

          • cowboystar dad Says:

            gee twotalon, you really like to pick nits ;-)
            In Canada we have 10oz Coke cans which are 4.7″ high. So 10 of them is 47″, or 3.9′
            I don’t think this is far off of the measurement from the bottom of a persons crotch to the top of their head…what is usually considered to be the killzone.
            Now I don’t really know if pellet guns and human ‘killzones’ really go in the same sentence ;-)

            • twotalon Says:

              Makes more sense now.
              I hope the stingy cans they sell you don’t cost as much as ours do.
              I hope your beer cans are bigger. Not necessarily as big as those huge Fosters cans, but at least as big as ours.

              twotalon

              • cowboystar dad Says:

                Oh, how I wish!!
                Last time I was across the border (last year in Washington) it seemed that $.50 or $.60 was going price for a 12oz can of Coke.
                In Edmonton we pay $1.00 or $1.25 for the 10oz can ;-(

                • twotalon Says:

                  That sucks.
                  A bottle of water or soda costs $1.25 from a vending machine here now. Don’t remember how many oz…must be about 1/2 liter.
                  I seldom look at prices. If I want it, I just pay for it.
                  Beer is usually $7…something a 12 pack. 30 packs are cheaper per beer.

                  twotalon

                  • cowboystar dad Says:

                    Okay, now I’m just plain mad!!
                    A dozen beer here will run $12 to $16 dollars.
                    A 12oz glass in a pub/bar/restaruant will set you back at $4.
                    For one freaking glass!!
                    Now I love Canada…it’s a great country.
                    But why does gas cost me $4 a gal, compared to, say $2.70 (or thereabouts) in many US cities. Alberta’s economy (where I live) is oil based. It comes from Alberta. Yet we pay more for it than the oil we ship abroad.
                    I’d really like to sit down with some of these economists and hear their reasoning.

                    But I digress, and will now ask a question.
                    I’m going to try the above ‘sniper’ shot this summer. Does anyone have scope recommendations for my Slavia 630. I know the according to b.b. I have to order the BRK rings with the 14mm base. My dealer carries Hawke and Leapers.

                    • twotalon Says:

                      Probably taxes.
                      I don’t know what the combined federal and state taxes are on alcohol, gas, and smokes are here, but I do remember that when I was overseas a long time ago that the stuff was dirt cheap without the taxes compared to here.

                      More recently but still quite a while ago I was in Japan. A beer( American or Japanese) cost $4.00 down town. I think it was mostly their economy there.
                      They had a McDonalds down town too, but I was afraid to find out what a Big Mac would cost.

                      We had a Burger King on base (Kadena)…Standard American prices.
                      Cheapest prices for food…chow hall. Not the worst I ever had, but cheap.

                      twotalon

                  • ajvenom Says:

                    Some of the grocery stores and work places here have 12 oz cans of pop in a machine for 50 cents. Normally 75 cents to a dollar.

                    Sometimes generic pop 25 cents in a machine.

                    Summer special of pop 5 dollars a case.

                    $5.99 for a 12 pack of beer is about as good as it gets for something cheap and decent…or non Olympia. I hit a holiday special….case of MGD for $9.99.

                    If you hit the right…gas is about $2.59 to $2.69 a gallon.

                    • Slinging Lead Says:

                      AJ

                      I need to move. I used to be a microbrew swiller, but finances have forced me to stick to Miller HIGH LIFE. It is as cheap as it gets around here, but I still cant find the kind of deals you are getting. Think of all the rifles I could buy with my savings.

    • Victor Says:

      cowboystar dad,

      What kind of gun are you shooting to get the 192/200, and in what position? Just curious.

      Regards,
      Victor

      • cowboystar dad Says:

        Avanti 853C with the Air Force diopter sights. Standing offhand.

        • Victor Says:

          You mentioned not being able to justify a high end, precision class rifle. Have you considered something like the Crossman Challenger? According to the Ray Apeles (sp?), he’s able to put 5 shots through the same hole, and not just a single hole group. It’s under $600 with sights. I picked one up (not bought) at the Shot Show. It felt like a substantial rifle. I would imagine that one could shoot pretty good scores with it.

          In any case, being able to shoot a 192/200 is pretty good in the offhand with such a light rifle. Because the Challenger is heavier, it might show some improvement. Back in the day, I shot a mean offhand, but after rupturing a disk, I can’t stand long enough to finish so many shots without either pain, or complete numbness in my leg. I even have trouble shooting pistol.

          Thanks so much for the info! Much appreciated!

          Regards,
          Victor

        • Victor Says:

          Oh, one more thing. If you want even more weight, you can order counter weights from Champion Shooters, out of Ohio. That’s what I used for my Anschutz 1413 free rifle. The extra weight helps stabalize the motion. Just a thought.

          • cowboystar dad Says:

            Thanks for the input Victor.
            I do think the ligthness of the Avanti has something to do with ‘the wall’.
            It is not a fatiquing rifle to shoot with because it is so light. Yet at the same time I have wondered if the way the front sight dances around when I am fatiqued…I wonder if a heavier gun would settle that down.
            I have yearly checkups…I know I don’t have high blood pressure, but there are days when the front sight dances in exact rythm with my my heartbeat.
            Latter this summer I am heading out to Vancouver where my dealer is. They carry both the Challenger and the CZ200T so I think I will drop in and check the both of them out.
            Till then I’ll concentrate on my ‘Quigley Shot’.

  • ajvenom Says:

    I’m not allowed to mention the word airgun in every sentence I say now.

    • J-F Says:

      Wow that must be HARD ! Try using air rifle, or use the manufacturer name instead or the rifle model name and if your talking about your rifles you can give them names.
      Speaking of gun names if any of you are on facebook go check out crosman page they’re posting favorite engravings :
      -Momma’s Critter Getter
      -Can Killer
      etc…

      J-F

  • CJr Says:

    Kevin,
    Re: cleaning my 1077.

    Yes, I have the graphite Dewey rod. Thanks for the cleaning tips. I’ll try the straws but it’ll mean eating more fast food until I find the right size. :-)

    Gene,
    Thanks for reminding me of the flexible rods/ropes/whatever. I forgot about them. I’ll try Kevin’s idea first since I have the Dewey rod already and the front is an easy reach. I’ll pay attention to the breech area when clean it since right now I don’t know how easy it is to access the barrel from there.
    -CJr

  • twotalon Says:

    I have pretty much quit going to the trouble of weighing pellets.
    Instead, I pitch the ones that are deformed. If a pellet loads looser than normal, I shoot it into the ground. A tighter than normal pellet usually shoots good enough. Not usually much different from the average pellet.

    I don’t shoot for score. Enough accuracy for killing things is all I need.
    Deformed or loose pellets are not adequate for this purpose.They are nearly always fliers.

    twotalon

  • Mike Says:

    Hi BB glad you’re feeling better.
    I have an off topic question. I recently purchased a TX200 MKIII and as I am relatively new to the sport I was wondering how I could discover the ultimate accuracy of a pellet rifle. As I am using the artillery hold on a bench I am imparting too many of my imperfections to the shot. Is there a way to artificially take me out of the picture (the way you would with a powder burner and sandbags). My shooting technique never gives me a fifteen to twenty shot group better than 1 inch at 35 yards. I’ve tested a number of pellets and thus far have found JSB exact .177 domed work about the best.
    My real concern is how to take me out of the equation for testing. Thanks Mike

    • Slinging Lead Says:

      Mike

      I have a TX200 Mark III as well. It gave me fits when I first got it. It was shooting about a foot and a half low and scattering pellets like buckshot. It didn’t even like AirArms pellets! I don’t know if she just settled down one day and decided to behave, or I learned something about parallax or follow through, but it soon became the easiest rifle I have ever laid hands on to shoot accurately.

      How many pellets have you been through so far?

      Name all the pellets you have tried.

      My particular TX likes Crosman Premier Lights.

      Also, be careful slamming that underlever home. It likes to mess up the little rubber bumper. Go to Home Depot and get some O rings to put into the two grooves in the front of the underlever if you haven’t already done so.

      I really like the TX. It is worth every last single penny it costs. And it costs quite a few of them. The bluing looks like black chrome.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Mike,

      The short answer is no–you must shoot the rifle. If you keep at it, you will get better with the artillery hold.

      I will answer your question more completely in Monday’s blog.

      B.B.

  • CYCLEALLEYRIDERS Says:

    Well,

    the Marauder arrive!!!! It was a lot of driving today to pick up the rifle from my friend in Pennsyltucky and then drive out to my business appointments on Long Island, NY. Only problem is I didn’t do a good job of disguising it when I got home just now and now everyone, including the wifey, knows. Things might get a bit ugly later…… :)

    Fred PRoNJ

    Fred PRonj

  • CYCLEALLEYRIDERS Says:

    Kevin and Volvo,

    after further review and thought, you guys are right. I DID reverse the targets for this blog!! Goes to show I need to keep better notes. My apologies to everyone.

    Fred PRoNJ

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    Fred

    Thanks for the excellent guest blog.

    Did you ever consider the subtle effect of marks from a Sharpie on a pellet would have on accuracy? Kind of boggles the mind doesn’t it? It boggles mine anyway. So many variables.

    Have fun with your new Marauder my friend. It will be worth almost every bit of grief your old lady gives you. ;-)

    • cyclealleyriders Says:

      SL’

      Not only do I get to play with my Marauder (I don’t have any 11mm dovetail scope mounts in my collection – only Weaver. Now I have to go out tomorrow and buy a dovetail to Picatinny convertor – d’oh!) but I’ve finished the conversion of my 20+ year old bike. It now sports STI Sora brifters and a megarange freewheel. Too bad it’s going to pour tomorrow. Just have to keep myself happy with the big M.

      Fred PRoNJ

  • DaveUK Says:

    cyclealleyriders:
    When I had the money to buy new airguns the conversations with my wife would go like this.

    Wife:
    “What is that?”
    Me:
    “……..”
    “Where did that gun come from?”
    Me:
    “Er..I’ve had it ages”
    Wife:
    “No you bloody haven’t”
    Me:
    “Look,I traded my old one OK.This is the rifle I would have bought if YOU had let me in the first place.”
    (Note:Defence moves to attack)
    Wife:
    “Right,you are going to pay for this”
    (Note:A Positive statement.An acceptance of the new rifle on a quid pro quo basis)
    Me:
    “Ok love,whatever you want,let me know”
    (Note:That $500 rifle will end up costing near $1000 when shoes,bags and trips away are factored in)

    The shame of it is,my missus like a lot of women,is a pretty good shot and on the rare occasion she has a go,really enjoys shooting.
    I blame the ‘Barbie’ dolls :(

    Thank you Fred PRoNJ for a great post and a lot of research on our behalf.
    DaveUK

    • C-S Says:

      Dave you have made quite a little drama here :) ,but it is like a “Gloomy Sunday”-circular proof that you can t win this discussion :( ;)

    • C-S Says:

      Dave this is my life more or less :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaNuB52_Irc

    • Slinging Lead Says:

      DaveUK

      While I am not able to avoid marital discord, I do have a way of shifting conversations my way when it comes to airguns…. sometimes.

      Example:

      Her: Is that ANOTHER airgun?!

      Me: Yes, its another airgun, you know I have more than one.

      Her: I mean, is it a NEW airgun?

      Me: This one? No, it isn’t new, date of manufacture is printed on the side, 2005 see?

      Her: I don’t think I’ve seen that one before.

      Me: That is because they ALL look the same to you. Its just like me with you and your sandles. I never know the difference.. wait…. are THOSE sandles new?

      Her: Do you smell something burning? I need to check the oven. (Her makes a hasty retreat)

      I do feel bad about the deception, I like it better when she just waves her hand and rolls her eyes with disgust.

      Cheers to you Mate.

      • DaveUK Says:

        Slinging Lead:
        When you think about it married air gunners would make formidable ‘Spies’.
        Good shots who are skilled in the art of deception and don’t crack under interrogation :)
        DaveUK

  • C-S Says:

    Beck and his “Loser”is alternative rock music newermind :) … do anyone of you guys have a (gamo)4 x 32 scope and is it any good !?

    • C-S Says:

      Gamo scope is in USA is about 20 dollars -here is more than 70

    • Fused Says:

      C-S, I put a Gamo 4×32 on an RS-2 that I bought and rebuilt for my dad. It does not have an adjustable objective, so anything closer than say 25 yards should be out of focus. I found that by adjusting the eyepiece that I could focus with it closer, not exactly sharp, but I could keep the reticle sharp and the target reasonably sharp. It seems fine for the $20 I spent, but I can’t say that I’d spend $70 on it!

  • C-S Says:

    Fused i tought so i have that scope and without UTG base it is nothing more than dust keeper here also it loses zero easly i dont know is it becouse i dont have UTG base or not

  • DB Says:

    B.B.

    When you say to use the JB Bore Cleaning Paste 20 times in each direction, do you mean 20 from breech to muzzle, followed by 20 muzzle to breech, or alternating directions until reaching 20 each way?

    Thanks,
    Dino

    • Slinging Lead Says:

      Dino

      The third one.

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      DB,

      Come on! Think about what you are asking.

      When you push the brush from breech to muzzle, how do you get it back out of the bore? By pulling it back again. That’s one time forward and one time back.

      Do that 20 times.

      B.B.

      • DB Says:

        My cleaning rod has a screw-in brush tip, so my thought was that if it wasn’t desired to go back through the bore, it could be removed each time. It would be a huge pain, so I’m glad to hear that it isn’t necessary.

        Dino

  • Malcolm Says:

    Hi,

    On a single-pump pneumatic gun, is there any way to vary the FPS? Not even increase it, Necessarily, just manipulate it up or down. I want to understand the ‘how’ of the guns workings.

    Thanks

    • Slinging Lead Says:

      Malcolm

      As I understand it, SPN guns are primarily used for relatively short range target shooting. What they lack it power, they make up for in accuracy due to consistency in FPS and barrel quality. This keeps it accurate for the range it was intended.

      If you want to adjust FPS get a decent multi-pump pneumatic.

    • Vince Says:

      On some guns it is, within limits. You can change the ‘compression ratio’ by adjusting the piston head position. Adjust it so that the entire length of piston rod/piston head is shorter, and the head will be further away from the end of the pump cylinder when the pump stroke is complete. This means the air is squished less, which means less pressure and less power. The Daisy 717/747′s work like that. It also might mean a floppy pump lever, as it does with those Daisies.

      But it’s a lot easier to loose power this way than to raise it. I think you’d find that by and large the SSP’s are optimized at the factory settings, so there’s really no where to go but down.

  • rikib Says:

    I’M BACK, I hope! DSL modem crapped out. Received free replacement which took a couple days.

    Well it has been almost a week, but I’m finally back online. Read most comments can’t say read all as there were 350+. It’s great to be back online :) Making this short in order to make sure everything’s working right. I use a netbook wireless routed off wife’s computer. Had a lot of problems installing new modem to her computer. I’ll check back shortly.

    rikib

    • DaveUK Says:

      rikib:
      Welcome back.
      Modem and ISP problems…we all been there mate :(
      DaveUK

      • C-S Says:

        rikiB glad that you are back :)! Dave today i have disassemble my 34 couse i noticed that something is wrong,and yes i was wright spring was broken :( !!!Now gotta buy new spring and one more just in case but there is a problem – here in our stores i can t find spring for Diana 34 or Diana 31 (they should be the same)

  • CYCLEALLEYRIDERS Says:

    Hey all,

    I took the 4 x 16 Leapers scope off my RWS 350 and installed it on the Marauder. First shot in my “under construction” indoor range was right and low. Couple of twists of the windage knob and I’m in line with the bull. Couple of twists of the elevation knob and, I’m still low. Couple more twists, still low. Go to the end of the the adjustment range and, the damn POI hasn’t moved. My RWS350 has destroyed my scope! I’ll call Leapers Monday and see if I can claim warranty repairs.

    However, the 10 shot group from this rifle with, first Crosman Premier Heavies (10+ gr) and then H&N Baracudas (7.3 gr?)was 1/2 inch. Subtract the pellet head diameter and it’s even smaller! Of course, this is from 28′. This Marauder is, without a doubt, the most accurate rifle I’ve ever shot. The sound – there is none. Just the noise of the hammer hitting the valve – the “ping” that everyone talks about. What a great rifle for the price – there is absolutely nothing out there that can touch this rifle in this price range.

    Fred PRoNJ

    • B.B. Pelletier Says:

      Fred,

      I don’t think your scope is ruined. It’s just at the top of the adjustment range and there isn’t any more “up.” You need to shim the rear mount and get the scope into the middle of the adjustment range.

      B.B.

      • cyclealleyriders Says:

        Hi BB,

        just catching up on comments. I don’t think I was very clear in my comment above but the elevation knob from full bottom to full top, does not change the POI of the pellet. That’s why I think the scope is FUBAR. But, I’ll give it another try this evening. I had thought of shimming the scope, also, but refrained after noticing no POI movement regardless of the amount I moved the adjustment knob.

        Fred PRoNJ

        • cyclealleyriders Says:

          BB,

          the problem is solved and it was not the scope, as you suspected. It turned out to be the conversion mounts I bought at a local gun store that converted my dove tail mounts to Weaver. The mounts were uneven but my quick installation resulted in the rings not fully engaging the bases. The scope was still moving around and that apparently was the cause of my POI not moving. Once that was cleared up, I did have to shim the rear scope in order to get the POI up into an adjustable range. Long story short, the scope is zeroed and I have several holes in the wall to spackle.

          Fred PRoNJ

          • Slinging Lead Says:

            Fred

            I usually pick up a fresh tub of spackle with every new order of pellets. I am happy to hear you are enjoying your new quiet killer. Crosman hit a home run with this rifle.

  • rikib Says:

    Well everything seems to be up and working fine now :) . You never realize how much you go on line until you cannot!

    rikib

  • Drew Says:

    Hello all, i am looking for some directions. I have had my crosman npss (which has since been renamed the remintgton npss) for about 8 months. I have noticed some of the digital camo pattern rubbing off. i was never really a fan of the original thumbhole stock. i was wondering if there were any aftermarket stocks i could get for this rifle. If someone could point me in the right direction i would greatly appreciate it.

    • Vince Says:

      I’m not sure which platform the NPSS was built from, I suspect it’s the same basic construction as either the Quest or the old Benjamin Legacy. If you could measure the OD of the spring tube, that might let us know.

      If it is based on one of those actions, then you could probably use the sporter-style stock that came from the factory, and might be available from Crosman as replacement parts. The Legacy had a traditional wood stock, while the Quest variants came with a few different styles, 2 wood (Quest/Storm XT, Sierra Pro/Remington Summit) and one synthetic (Phantom/Tac-1 Extreme)

      • Drew Says:

        Outside diameter of the spring tube is 1 1/4 inches. I would love to have a nice wood stock like the quest or storm thos are both pretty sharp looking rifles!

        • Vince Says:

          Drew, that sounds like a Legacy spring tube. The Quest isn’t that thick.

          Here’s another couple of questions:

          1) Do the FRONT stock screws go straight in from the side, or do they go in and upwards at an angle?

          2) What’s the distance between the front and rear main stock screws? Don’t try to measure from screw head to screw head. Measure the distance straight, in line with the rifle, from the centerline of the screws.

          • Drew Says:

            The front stock screws come in at an angle and they are 7 3/4 inches from the front screw of the trigger guard and 10 1/2 inches from the rear screw. I’m assuming the trigger guard screws are also the rear main stock screws. Is the Remington Summit stock also a possibility, that is an amazing looking rifle along with the legacy.

  • Slinging Lead Says:

    I know you said you weren’t a fan of the stock, but I think Crosman would send you replacement, free of charge. They have excellent customer service.

    Best to contact them by phone: 1-800-7AIRGUN (724-7486)

    Otherwise I would look at Woods and Waters Outdoors

    http://www.woodsandwateroutdoors.com/

    email: stevejcorcoran@wmconnect.com

    • Drew Says:

      There are a couple reasons i dont like the stock not just because it peels and flakes, it was never really that comfortable to begin with. But if i cant find a different stock then i will be sure to call and get this one replaced.

  • Mr B. Says:

    CycleAlleyRider,

    Thank you sir for the time and effort you expended doing the research, writting, and illustrating this blog.

    This is a link that kevin posted awhile back that you’ll find fascinating. http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/message/1189430606/Pellet+sorting+-+inspection+-+batching+-+my+present+ultimate+s. The author posts under Yrrah on the yellow.

    Mr B.

    • cyclealleyriders Says:

      Mr. B,

      all I can say is, “wow”. This moves pellet selection to a whole, new dimension. If I ever get to Olympic quality, this is the way to go. Until then, I’ve got a lot of miles to cover, starting with what turned out to be balky scope mounts but see my comment to BB above.

      Fred PRoNJ

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