Diana 27 - a golden oldie
by B.B. Pelletier
Let's take a look at one of the longest-running airgun models ever made - the Diana model 27. The history given here is condensed from Blue Book of Airguns, Fifth Edition.
My Diana 27 was made in 1967 for the Hy-Score company. It's a Hy-Score 807.
A long run
Diana is a German airgun firm with a long, colorful history. Started in 1890, the company survived two world wars and numerous civil upheavals, as well as several crushing depressions. In the U.S. today, Diana is so closely associated with RWS that many people believe RWS makes the airguns, but that isn't the case. Diana makes them, and RWS simply imports them into this country under their own label.
The model 27 was first made in 1910, though it looked much different back then. The gun had only a buttstock - no forearm at all. In fact, it wasn't until after World War II that the model 27 got a normal-looking stock.
Many names, but just one gun
The Diana model 27 has been sold in this country under several names. Just a few of the important ones are Beeman, Original, Hy-Score, Winchester and Milbro. All but Milbro were actually German Diana model 27 guns under other names.
The Milbro guns deserve more explanation. As partial reparations for World War II, the United Kingdom secured the rights, tooling, machinery, parts and drawings of Diana air rifles. Millard Brothers of London made Diana guns in Scotland that were also sold in the U.S. under the Daisy brand name, though I don't believe they ever made the model 27 for them. During the years when Milbro made Dianas, the restarted German firm had to use the name "Original" to avoid confusion. After Milbro folded, the Germans got back the Diana name.
The Diana 27 was famous for the trigger with the ball bearing sear
Diana pioneered a type of trigger that uses three ball bearings to hold the piston when the gun is cocked. A complex arrangement of springs, bearings and nested cages and bearing races keep pressure on the piston stem until the trigger releases it. Adjusting this trigger is difficult, but once it is adjusted properly, it is as nice as any conventional trigger.
The 27 was just the right size and power!
This was not a magnum airgun. In .22, it shoots medium-weight pellets in the mid- to high-400s. In .177, it gets close to 600 with medium pellets. Why do so many airgunners flip over the gun? Because its so smooth, so easy to cock and light enough to shoot offhand all day long. A 27 is deadly accurate and so understressed that it keeps on shooting long after more powerful guns need a spring change.
I have owned three model 27 guns. The first was a .22 Hy-Score 807 that came from a pawn shop for $18. It was rusty and beat up, but it shot beautifully and I loved it. I eventually gave it to my best friend. Number two was a real Diana .177 that was in sad shape. I bought it for $20 at a gun show, and the dealer was "kind enough" to cock and dry-fire it once to show me that it worked! I repaired it and eventually let myself be talked out of it by someone who wanted it even more.
The .22-caliber model 27 you see above is the last one I bought, and it's NOT for sale. I paid $110 for it 12 years ago, and I have since tuned it to be even smoother. It used to be a "go-to" airgun, but my Blue Streak and TX 200 have shoved it aside. Still, when I want smooth, light and just right, I pick up my trusty Diana model 27.
posted by B.B. Pelletier @ 4:30 AM
125 comments
125 Comments:
hey bb I just wanted to let you know while reading a earlier post I noticed that you are using green gas or "propane" in your marui hi-cappa, your actually spossed to run HFC134A (AKA automotive freeon) in the marui guns because they don't have the metal slides or potmetal internals needed for use of "propane aka greengas", if a marui gun is used with greengas over a peroid of time (and yes I've seen this first hand) the slide will literally fly off the lower spewing small springs and various internal components everywhere. (this actually happened to me but it left a mark the shape of a 9mm beretta slide on my forehead insted of just sending peices everywhere)
if your intristed there are various websites that sell the upgraded metal slides and recoilsprings needed to run propane in your handgun, there are also ways to upgrade the marui electric rifles in some cases surpassing the 500 fps mark (this also gets very expensive expect to pay anywhere from 100-200 just for a upgrade to reach 400 fps)
I would also like to point out that in japan and many places in america airsoft guns are used in a sport simillar to paintball, the players are required to wear ANSI rated goggles and various protective gear . the appeal of airsoft over paintball is of corse the "mil-sim" style of play and just the general feel of the "weapons" and the fact airsoft is a lot safer than paintball . and just to give you a idea of whats required to play a marui electric rifle with 3 hi-cap magazines and a gas sidearm is the bare minimum to play
also would like to mention that in CA airsoft is a growing thing, a lot of people in this great nation including myself want a "assualt weapon" but since the media has deemed this to be a bad thing we have to turn to airsoft to feed the need, so it isn't very unusual to see a collector thats got thousands into his replica guns all because he can't own say a "real steel" firearm with a 8 inch barrel that fires from a open bolt (Ingram mac-10 anyone?)
just thought I'd throw that out there to clear up some grey areas about airsoft guns
Good article about the diana 27.I live in Europe (Belgium) where this model used to be very popular. This was my first teenager-rifle. I bought it second-hand when I was 13...for the equivalent of 20 USD !But it was in the years 70's.I scoped it with an ancient model scope made in USA... The result was amazing ! Deadly accurate on any small game within 25 yards or so... I shot SEVERAL THOUSANDS OF ROUNDS with the 27 and after that it was still shooting like the first days !Unfortunatelly, I was idiot enough to abandon my dear rifle in a garden-shelter when I got married... What a pity.I re-discovered it 30 years later... It was totally rusty and YES MY OLD DIANA 27 WAS STILL WORKING.It still shots now... I find that pretty incredible! I have several airiflles and firearm some of them are quite expensive but NONE are so reliable and strong ! Do you think that I can do something to restore such an old rifle. No need to get in touch with the DIANA factory. I did it and they answered me that the spare parts for this model are no more available... ? ERIC
Green gas,
I read your other comment.
Since this is a safety and damage issue, I am alerting Pyramyd Air.
Thank you for alerting us!
B.B.
Eric,
Wow!
Your story is better than my posting! It really reinforces what I said about these guns being so reliable.
Yes, you can fix your gun and return it to like-new performance. You probably need a new leather seal, although I would try the oiling recomendation I give in today's post. Sometimes a leather seal just needs to be lubricated.
Also you have to oil the leather seal at the breech end of the barrel. It will probably need a lot of oil to take back its old shape.
If you have to make a new leather piston seal, I will ask Pyramyd Air to get Tom Gaylord to write an article about how to do that. They need that article on their site anyway, because so many other old guns need new seals.
As far as a new mainspring goes, there are several shops in England that supply replacement parts for older guns like yours. The parts are not factory parts, but springs are so general that they will work if they are close to the right size. If you can't locate one of these places, I know a place or two here in the U.S. where you can get a replacement mainspring. Just let me know and I will give you the address.
Please keep shooting your old Diana!
B.B.
no problem,
if you guys want to get some green gas capable handguns look into the KWA and WE lines, they come stock with all the upgrades needed to take the gas and cost just about as much as their marui counterparts.
do they still make the modle 27
I bought my first Modle 27 in 1966 for 9 dollars and it still works fine as ever
The model 27 was last made in 1987.
B.B.
I have a diana model 27 I picked up in the early 80's not even a slight dent in the stock. Its like the one pictured in the article. can anyone give me an aprox value
John,
A read beauty is worth $125-150 today. The Diana name is most desired, along with Wincherster. The Hy Score name used to bring a little less, but I don't know if it still does.
B.B.
I have a mid 70's Diana 27 in perfect conditions. I would like to know if the two screws in front of the trigger (it is a ball bearing trigger) allow the adjustment of pull travel and weight and - if so - which is the correct procedure to follow.
Thank you
Angelo Sola
Rome, Italy
angelo_sola(at)yahoo.com
Angelo,
The screw in the front, the one closest to the muzzle, is just a locking screw. When you have adjusted the trigger the way you like it, tighen this screw last.
The screw in the back is the only adjustment screw. First, tighten it (clockwise) as far as it will go. Then loosen it two complete turns. Now test the trigger by firing a pellet.
Keep your cocking hand on the barrel all the time the barrel is open. Expect the gun to fire without warning, until you load and close it. Then fire and see how the trigger feels. If you like it, tighten the front screw and you are done. If you want to adjust the trigger more, turn the rear screw clockwise (tightening it) by 1/8 turn and try the gun again.
Never let go of the barrel while it is open when you are adjusting the trigger. Continue to turn the rear screw in by 1/8 turns until you are satisfied with the trigger pull. Of course you can adjust it in the opposite direction, if that is what you want.
B.B.
I have an air rifle that looks similar to the picture of the Diana 27. The gun was purchased in the mid 1950’s by my brother and the only markings are the HY Score emblem on the stock and the word GECADO stamped on the barrel.
Do you have any information on this air rifle? The rifle is in good condition but missing the rear site. The air rifle still shoots well.
Gecado is a German importer/exporter, similar to Beeman in this country. Hy Score must have specified the stock emblem but not the markings on the meal, so yours is an early import.
Try John Groenewold for the sight. John Groenewold, PO Box 830, Mundelein, IL 60060-0830, (847) 566-2365
B.B.
Nice article BB,I reside in India and I own a pre-war Diana 27(only buttstock).A friend of mine inherited the weapon and asked me if I would take it,my answer of course was yes!!It was off to the gunsmith as the weapon had not been used for decades,spares were tough to come by but two years later the rifle is in fine shooting order.Information on the rifle is very hard to get,any help here would be welcome.This gun is old!!There is an etch of a Huntress holding aloft a bow on the cylinder,below this also etched into the metal are the words "Diana model 27 Germany"The lines have faded away and are only faintly visible.This rifle must have taken a heavy toll on the wildlife of this area.
Anderson,
The pre-war model 27 is quite a nice airgun. The trigger is different, but the rest of the performance is very similar to the post-war gun.
Thanks for the feedback!
B.B.
The trigger isnt the only thing thats different.The fore sight is of a simple sliding type.It has become quite loose and so Iv been using loctite to keep it zeroed.
I have a Diana model 27 that I purchased new in Germany in the early 70s. Lately, it's accuracy has fallen off and I need to solve the problem. The gun has never been disassembled and cleaned or lubricated because I didn't have any instructions and was reluctant to proceed without some. I am sure the leather needs lubrication or replaced and probably the breech O ring should be replaced as it appears flattened. I am shooting the match grade wad cutters by RWS. I checked the factory installed iron sights and they are tight. I tried a little teflon grease on the breech O ring. I would appreciate any suggestions you may have to solve this. A source for replacement O ring would be helpful. Additionally, I like to keep it cocked and loaded. Is this likely to lead to spring problems?
Dell,
Have you been oiling your piston seal? If not, drop 10 drops of household oil down the transfer port now and stand the gun on its butt for an hour. Oil the breech seal, too. It won't look like it absorbs oil, but it really does.
After you do this, drop me a note about how the gun works.
Thanks for the quick reply. I have done the oiling you suggest and will give the gun a test when the weather clears.(should be a couple of days). Would you comment on the question of keeping the gun loaded and cocked? I use it on varmints in the yard and usually have a short window of opportunity. Are there printed assembly/disassembly instructions available? Thanks again Dell
Dell,
If you keep it loaded and cocked the mainspring is probably shot. Also, since your gun has no safety, it's a dangerous practice. It could fire just by falling over.
There are no instructions for disassembling your gun, plus yours is one of the most complex guns made. The trigger falls apart in many pieces when it's outside the gun.
I recommend you send the gun to either Pyramyd Air (Boris) or to
John Groenewold, PO Box 830, Mundelein, IL 60060-0830, (847) 566-2365
B.B.
B.B.
My Uncle, during WW2 must have brought back a Diana Model 27, stamped with Hitler Jugend Gebiet Fronker (not sure about the spelling of the last word) on the butt of the stock. I was wondering if anyone out there has any information on what it might mean. The gun itself doesn't have a barrel, but hopefully I'll find it in the basement where my Grandfather worked as a gunsmith. He passed away in 1971 and we bought the home.
Thank you for any help that you can give me.
George
gtokach@verizon.net
George,
Your rifle belonged to a Hitler Youth club. They were the rough equivalent of the Boy Scouts, only the Germans used them to train young men for military service.
B.B.
B.B.
Thank you for your quick response to my inquiry about the Model Diana 27 that I have. Would you know if the markings on the butt would make it more valuable to WW2 memorabilia collectors, or to your knowledge, are there lots of guns out there with the same markings?
Thanks again,
George
George,
There aren't what I would call lots of them, but I know of several hundred in this country. They show up on the gun auctions from time to time.
If your rifle were in good condition it would command a small premium over a 27 in similar shape without the markings.
The most highly prized guns are those with the Nazi swastika.
B.B.
I recently purchased what was represented to be a pre-war Diana 27L. It has "DIANA LUFT GEWEHR" stamped on the top flat of the barrel. I has the number "42241" stamped under the breech. It is 42&3/4" OAL with a 18&3/4" smooth bore octagon-to-round barrel. How can I determine the model and year of manufacture.
Reggie,
Usually I can't hep a lot with a question like this, because there normally aren't enough things to pin down a gun's year of manufacture. But you have an exceptional gun.
According to the Blue Book of Airguns, your pre-war Diana 27L was made prior to 1923 because it has the octagonal to round barrel. You didn't mention it, but of course your rifle does not have a wooden forearm - just a buttstock.
The 27L was made from 1910 to 1936, and was made as either a smoothbore or rifled. I'm pretty sure the number under the breech is the serial number, which would make your gun closer to 1923 than to 1910.
While your rifle is not uncommon and has no great collector value, the barrel configuration you have is scarce and raises the worth by 20 percent. So you have a gun worth $100-130, if it's in very good condition with most of the blue remaining.
B.B.
Where can I find the seals for the Diana model 27?
Diana 27 seals,
Try this guy:
John Groenewold, PO Box 830, Mundelein, IL 60060-0830, (847) 566-2365
B.B.
hi also have a early model diana mod.27
with a symbol of a woman holding a rifle and next to her there is a bow and arrow wich brand and make does this mean?
and an other question what brand or size scope can i buy to fit my diana mod.27 rifle i wouldt like a scope to shoot more accurate.
p.s. i am never gonna lose this rifle out my sight i love it
Your rifle is a Diana. The trademark is the goddess Diana disgarding her bow for a rifle.
You will have a problem mounting a scope, because the 27 does not have provisions for a scope stop. Without that, your scope mounts will walk off the rear of the ramp on your rifle.
Also, the ramp on the rear of the
spring cylinder is not meant for scope mounting. It's too narrow to accept modern 11 mm scope mounts. It's there to accept a Diana aperture sight.
You might contact the following source to see whether he has had any success mounting scopes on the Diana 27.
John Groenewold, PO Box 830, Mundelein, IL 60060-0830, (847) 566-2365
B.B.
hi,
does anyone know the specs of the original diana mod.27
cause i wanna know them and cant find anything on the web or does some one have the original brochure of it,
plz mail me on pinny@chello.nl
hii,
i wounder witch caliber this gun uses...because i gott this gun from my grandfather after his death and he never told me what bullets to use, i think it´s one made after ww2, it has the picture of the woman with arrow and bow.
Krille,
It should be marked either 4.5mm or 5.5mm.
B.B.
no markings....but i tested diabolo 4.5mm and it worked just perfect thnx!
My husband has a Diana 27, his late father bought it for him when he was 12. I would like to find out some information ont he gun, and also if it has a value?
Since this post was written there has been a resurgence of interest in the older Dianas like this one. I was at an airgun show last month and there were several Diana 27s in nice shape. The asking prices were around $250, which makes their value $200-250.
B.B.
Thank you for that information B.B.
We llive in the UK so I need to check the exchange rate to get an idea of value in GPS.
The gun was bought new in 1959, and is in very good condition for its age.
I'm sorry about that. What I gave you were U.S. prices, of course, but the market over here is probably also different. I don't think my estimate will hold in the UK, even if you do the conversion (which will be very close to 2 : 1.
B.B.
Thank you for taking the time and trouble to reply B.B.
Yes, I realise that the U.S. views guns in a different way than we do over 'the pond' here. It was nice to be able to show your reply to my husband though, as this is the first time I have been able to find any site on the Internet to find out anything about his precious gun!!!!!
You're a good wife. I hope he responds in kind.
BTW, the book "Gas, Air & Spring Guns of the World" by W. H. B. Smith is a wonderful old book about airguns that includes your husband's Diana. It's long out of print (it was printed in the UK), but you can still find them for sale on the Internet at the old book sites. Just in case there's a birthday for which you need you need a suggestion.
B.B.
Thank you for that bit of info B.B. I'll look out for it online. It might come in handy as a Christmas present.
Hello BB Sir,
My dad has a Winchester 427 in .22 which apparently is a variant of the Diana 27 you are speaking of here. He keeps it stored in his garage so it has minor pitting/rust on the external barrel which looks like it could be restored. It seems to shoot fine, I just added a few drops of oil as you suggested to the transfer port. The front sight has been knocked off and he removed the rear sight from the top of the barrel block and put on a cheap .22 rimfire scope. He wants me to sight it in for him. (and use it till it fails) I was wondering if you think it would be worth "restoring" and putting on a muzzle brake and a newer scope like the bug buster or 3-9x40ao that pyramid sells. The "o" ring seal on the barrel seems a little flat towards the top, can this be replaced with a similar sized one from any source? Thank you for your time. "UncleTimmyS"
UncleTimmyS,
Well, there is no danger of loosing any value with this gun, so go ahead and make any mods you like. You can refinish the gun because all collector value has been lost with the rust and loss of sights.
Here is a source for parts:
John Groenewold, PO Box 830, Mundelein, IL 60060-0830, (847) 566-2365
The flat leather washer at the breech is common for these guns. It doesn't have to be replaced until there is significant air loss at the breech. Be sure to oil it and the leather piston seal frequently (every month if you shoot a lot).
B.B.
I have a Diana Mod 27 air rifle but I'm not sure of the type ammo to use. No markings on barrel to tell me. Any help?
Your rifle is either .177 or .22.
My 27 isn't marked on the barrel, either. It;s on the top of the receiver. It will say either 4.5mm (.177) or 5.5mm (.22).
If there are no markings anywhere, try the Q-tip test. A Q-tip cotton swab will enter the muzzle of a .22 fairly easily. It will have to be pushed to enter the muzzle of a .177.
If all else fails, simply measure the diameter of the hole at the muzzle with a metric ruler.
B.B.
I own a gecado mod .27 i am very happy with my gun i live in south africa and it shoots 700 fps and it is very very accurate and it has lots of power
Hi.
I received a Diana 27 18 years ago.Now, I would like to sell it,but I have no idea of the price.She's in very good condition and she's very accurate.The caliber is .177.Somebody can help me????
The price depends a bit on what name is on your gun. The Winchester name sells the best, with the Diana name right behind. At airgun shows this year, Diana 27s in great shape (looking almost new) are asking $200-250. They are probably selling for a little less.
B.B.
I bought a Diana Model 27 in 1967 while station at Lajas Field in the Azores. I've kept it in excellent shape; no rust, no nicks, no dents. It has been used but not abused.
I've read about oiling the felts. Can you tell me exactly where and how much oil?
There is no felt on this gun. Felt is found on multi-pump pneumatics.
This rifle has a leather piston seal and a leather breech seal. The breech seal is seen around the breech when the barrel is broken open. The hole behind the barrel when it is broken open is the transfer port. That's where the air comes from when the piston compresses it.
Drop 10 drops of 3-in-1 oil into the transfer port and spread anothe r couple drops on the breech seal. Decock the gun and let it stand on its butt for four hours. Then shoot it about 100 times. That should bring the seals back to flexibilitry if it isn't too late.
NEVER shoot this gun without a pellet in the bore and NEVER use cleaning pellets in it.
B.B.
Hello B.B., great site. I just bought a collection of about 30 guns. I got a Diana 27 rifle, (British made). Is it co2? Or spring type. Nice feeling rifle.., thats for sure. It's the type with the full barrel stock. I may sell it cheap.bnubge Thanks, sjalexandertrader@yahoo.com
The Diana model 27 is a spring piston rifle.
B.B.
I have a Gecado 16.
Does anyone know when they were made?
I have a Diana Breakbarrel Rifle Mod 22 .177 caliber. Is there anything that anyone can tell me about this rifle? On the barrel, it says that it was made in Great Britain. Any information that anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated.
Richard,
Your rifle was made by the Millard Brothers (Milbro) if Scotland. They received the machinery and right to make Diana models as reparations for WW II.
Your gun was made after WW II - 1953-1985. The Blue Book says an excellent one is worth $65, but I think a better value would be $100. In average shape it's still worth $50.
B.B.
say i have pellet gun made in germaney winchester mod.416 cal.177 can anyone tell me if this gun is still been made? this look like it is old gun.if any body has a manual on taken this gun apart that want to sale let me know ok?thanks JB.
JB,
The Winchester 416 is the Diana model 16. I doubt you will find a schematic, but disassembly is pretty simple. The mainspring is retained by a crosspin at the rear of the spring cylinder tube. Restrain the mainspring when you remove the pin.
B.B.
I just recieved a 1954 diana 27 today,good condition,I added 6 drops of 3 in 1 oil to the transfer port and some on the breech seal,will be chrony testing fps tomorrow and hoping its under 500 fps with beeman laser pellets as i am moving to canada in a few months,maybe i will have to detune it to be slower....we'll see tomorrow!
Hey it's me Taz with the 54' m-27 in .177 caliber,well i added another 4 drops last night of 3n1 oil and let her sit over night,set up the chrony today and initial shots were averaging in the mid 600 range,after maybe 20-30 shots she started to settle down and heres the info:
10 shot strings on the chrony for each pellet type.
daisy wadcutter avg.-374 fps
RWS Diabolo Basic pellet avg.-407
Beeman Laser Pellet avg.-437
Gamo Rocket avg.-266
looks like either the spring is tired or needs a new seal,i'll bet on the seal but as it is it's well under the 500fps range so i can bring it with me to canada without claiming it as a firearm,i suppose i shouldn't shoot it anymore till it gets a new seal though.
Taz,
The oiling will collect and the first couple of shots will be higher. Best to shoot it a little to burn the oil off.
I agree that your spring is shot and maybe the seal, too, but don't fix it until you get home in Canada.
B.B.
Hi BB,Taz Again,took her all apart to see how it works!well maybe i shouldn't have as it hasn't been apart before by the looks of it,,,oh well to late now!it all started with my fascination to remove the rust...using super fine steel wool and oil,then i had to take the stock off to"clean rust more easily in the corners",after removing the rust i just couldn't resist and apart she came!OMG!the bearing trigger and the springs!
She actually was pretty nice inside,the spring has 35 coils and i tried putting in a shrunken r7 maccari spring that i destroyed by putting in my izh-61!bent it all good the izh did,I couldn't remove the leather compression seal because the screw only loosened a little than became tight again,the leather seal was actually ok so now i feel like a dummy for ripping into her.
My great idea to moly up the original spring and put her back together...OMG,how do you get moly out of a white rug?I kept dropping the bbs from the trigger and the spring shot across the room which i still need to get from behind my dresser,next time she comes apart i will need a new leather seal and a proper new mainspring,i hope the moly doesn;t effect the trigger because that's the only way i could keep the little buggers in.
I think i need a knowledgeable website for info on rebuilding these with pictures on teardown and rebuild,what kind of new mainspring should i use for when i rebuild her?
Oh ya the fps was at 6500 feet altitude here in colorado
Ok,now i forget i think the mainspring was actually 39 coils!
Will need a new leather too will have to call John Groenewold
Now you know why not to disassemble an older Diana. To reassemble the trigger as a unit, cost all the parts with viscous crease. That will hold the ball bearings in place as you install the trigger. The later Dianas unitized this trigger and are much easier to work on.
Smear the new mailspring (please use a new one) WITH SOME KIND OF HEAVY GREASE. SINCE YOU ARE GOING TO CANADA, I'D OVERDOSE IT WITH MACCARI'S VELOCITY TAR. THAT SHOULD SLOW THE GUN DOWN, THOUGH PROBABLY NOT BELOW 500.
B.B.
thanks BB...any recommendation on which mainspring will fit?
Contact this guy:
John Groenewold, PO Box 830, Mundelein, IL 60060-0830, (847) 566-2365
http://www.jgairguns.biz
B.B.
Thanks will contact him...did another chrony test today and she is pushing diabolo basics at an average of 456 fps and beeman laser pellets at an average of 467.
A slight increase most likely due to the beeman m2m i applied to the mainspring or the leather is waking up or both,i will tuck her away with her sisters for now and give the readings again once i am at sea level,and once again at sea level when the new spring and seal is installed.
Thanks for the help BB.
Taz
Taz,
I forgot the altitude. You will be about 525-540 at sea level. That's close to the original spec, though I would still replace the spring.
B.B.
Hey BB,I'll test it at the last pit stop before the border to make sure,will bring the paperwork with me in case it needs the firearms importation.
Wow...went in to the garage today and did a 5 shot into the pellet trap at about 15 feet on a rest and had one ragged hole!I wasn't even trying and it was dark...wow.
later
Taz
i have a diana model 27
and its a fine airgun
what's the fps
Andrea,
f.p.s. means feet per second. It's how velocity is expressed for guns.
B.B.
B.B.
I have just read your excellent postings about the Diana Model 27; you sure seem to know your guns.
I am in the UK & have just recovered an air gun from my nephew I had as a youngster which I haven't seen for 31 years. It's marked "Original” “mod 27 West Germany" so I’m assuming it’s from the Diana factory & was given to me from an old guy I used to sail with so I think it's quite old. Unfortunately it's quite rusty & the butt's scratched but it still fires fairly well. I will take your advice on the oiling, is WD40 spray lubricant OK or should I invest in proper gun oil?
Anyway the 2 questions I have so far are:
1) Is there any way I can find out how old the gun is? I’m an Engineer by trade so have no problems in disassembling to find the serial number & have taken note of your information on the tricky trigger assembly & will be careful & ask further advice if I need to strip the spring out etc. (I learnt my lesson when as a 15 year old I decided to strip down my “Relum” .22 only to find the spring pops out and you can’t compress it back in without specialist tools)
2) How could I fit a scope to it? Seeing as it doesn't have any grooves for scope mounts & I'm just introducing my 15 year old son to the art of shooting & he's struggling with the iron sights.
I am really excited about finding an expert who can help with the re-found gun from my youth.
Looking forward to your reply.
RPS.
RPS,
Okay, time for tough love!
Please read this report on the Diana 35:
http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2008/05/diana-35-always-contender.html
The Diana 27 you have and the Diana 35 are constructed similarly. They are among the most complex of all spring guns to work on. Your Relum was just a prelude to this - the difference engine of air rifles. A look at the trigger I've shown disassembled in that other report should demonstrate why.
How to mount a scope on the Diana 27? Well, let me ask you this. How should I go about installing the engine from a Chieftain tank into a Smart Car?
"Don't do it!" you say? Well, don't try to mount a scope on a Diana 27, I say. Teach your son to use open sights with that rifle and get him a modern air rifle when the time comes for a scope. Open sights are the basic way to sight, anyway, and he should be taught the basics first. Here is three tutorial reports on the use of sights:
http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/12/how-to-sight-in-airgun-with-open.html
http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2007/03/peep-sights.html
http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2006/08/teach-person-to-shoot-part-5.html
As for WD-40, I love the stuff, too, but it should never be used on guns, clocks, fishing reels and other finely-made mechanisms. When it dries it turns to a yellow varnish that will gum up the works of anything that's fitted close. Use regular household oil (3-in-1?) or gun oil.
B.B.
RPS,
One final thing. The date of your rifle should be stamped in small numerals on the left rear of the spring tube, just above the trigger. It will be the month and year the rifle was made.
B.B.
B.B.
Thanks for your reply. I can't find a serial number only "Made in West Germany" in small print on the left side of the spring tube just above the stock. I have taken the stock off but can't find anything else.
I have oiled the gun as you recomended & adjusted the trigger so it is shooting quite well at the moment apart from I noticed the seal at the muzzle has a small section missing so am probably loosing some power there. Would my local gunsmith in the UK have a spare I could fit?
The only other thing I am struggling with is the sights. They are a "V" nothch for the rear with elevation adjustment on a slider & an open inverted solid "/\" at the front which can slide left to right. I am finding when trying to sight at 17 yds (the length of my garden to the Squirrels) I have to push the front sight as far over to the right as possible & also the rear sight is not held firm so have to move that to the right as well & on the lowest elevation setting have to place the tip of the front sight just showing in the bottom "V" to get anywhere near on sight after that things seem fairly repeatable but obviosly things move when storing or transporting the rifle.
Is ther any other type of sight I could fit or how could I remedy the current sighting issue?
I am shooting RWS Hollow Point 14.8 grain .22 pellets which poses another question as to whether they are suitable in this rifle for Squirrels?
Best regards,
RPS.
RPS,
The Diana 27 has no options for alternate sights. I agree that those peppercorn sights are very difficult to use.
You may be fighting yourself with those sights! You say you are pushing both front and rear sights to the right, but that doesn't work. The front sight has to be pushed in the opposite direction of the way you want the pellet to move, so if you are shooting too far to the right, push the front sight to the left, and vice-versa.
The UK is home to the best supply of vintage airgun parts anywhere, so that rear breech seal should be easy to replace.
As far as the best pellet to use, use the one that is the most accurate. At the short distance you are shooting a wadcutter is as good as a hollowpoint.
B.B.
B.B.,
I have 2 diana air rifles that have been in the family for over 25 years, a model 50 and a model 27. As far as I can remember they have both been outfitted with scopes. I would like to outfit them once again with their open sights. Do you know where I can find and purchase the open sights for these outstanding air rifles? I appreciate your help. Thanks for your time.
Abilio
Abilio,
Two places come to mind. Pyramyd Air has a huge supply of vintage Diana parts and they include vintage sights. Look at them online, but call if you don't see what you need. The 50 and 45 may use the same rear sight and they all pretty much used the same front sight, from the 35 on up.
The 27 was a cheaper gun that had a fixed front sight in a hood.
The other source is this guy:
John Groenewold, PO Box 830, Mundelein, IL 60060-0830, (847) 566-2365
http://www.jgairguns.biz
B.B.
B.B.,
Thank you very much for the info. I have contacted them both for my needs. Would you by any chance have or know the location(link)of the exploded diagram for the DIANA model 27? Once again, thanks for your valuable help.
P.S. My model 27 has rails in the front of the barrel.
Abilio
Abilio,
Doug Law may have the schematics for a Diana 27. His website is:
http://www.bigspringguns.net/
B.B.
Hi Abilio,
I came across a Gunmaker in the UK called Chambers who carry spares for the older rifles including the Dianna 27. But they also have some exploded views with part numbers on their website at
http://www.gunspares.co.uk/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=24376&cat=27.
Hope this helps.
RPS.
PS. I'm still struggling with my iron sights wandering all over. Any suggestions?
RPS,
Thank you for that link. I hope it's what he needs.
As for your sights wandering, is your barrel pivot bolt tight?
B.B.
RPS,
Thanks for the link. Very useful.
Abilio
B.B.,
Re: Diana model 27
Wanted to thank you again for your help in my decision to purchase a Diana model 54. Can't wait until I can change the temporary base with your new leapers. I just purchased a diana model 27 that looks brand new. Date stamp is November 1980. Shot it 20-30 times. Shot groups were all over the place. Couldn't do better than 2" at 20 feet. Put oil down the transfer port and on the breech seal as you suggested. Maybe that will help. Rear site seems a little loose, moves slightly from side to side. Is this normal? Would also appreciate knowing which pellets in .177 you've had the most accuracy with in the model 27. kevin
ps-I didn't even know I was in the market for a diana 27. Is this normal?
Kevin,
Just look at premium pellets that are not Crosman (too hard and small). I never tested my .177 enough to know what it the most accurate. Probably RWS Meisterkuglen.
Yep, you're an airgunner.
Your 27 will group inside an inch at 25 yards all day long. USE PREMIUM PELLETS! Don't buy pellets at Wal-Mart.
B.B.
B.B.,
Wow what a fast reply. Do you have a computer embedded in your body?
You're a fan of the domed crossman premiers in the cardboard box. You're recommending against those for this gun? Immediately after I posted this question pyramyd air called me and said your new scope base for the 54 is in and will be shipped to me tomorrow. Hip, Hip Hooray! I added a cardboard box of the domed crossman premiers light (7.9 grains) to this shipment. Are these premiers to hard for the diana 27? Sorry to be such a bother. kevin
Kevin,
I'm sorry about leaving out the 7.9 Premiers in the box. It takes many paragraphs to explain to people why the box and not a tin and I was just lazy.
But pure lead pellets will be better in the long run.
Sounds like you have found a keeper.
B.B.
B.B,
Thanks for the reinforcement on using crosman premiers in the diana 27. Shot the new diana 27 this morning after oiling per your instructions and then letting it sit overnight. Even with loose fitting daisy pellets that came with the gun it groups better. Can't wait to see what the premiers do in this sweet gun. Read your december 26, 2005, "Lubricating Your Spring Gun Part 2" article early this morning. Sure looks like pictures of your diana model 27 in that article. I hope Pyramyd Air realizes the asset that they have in your knowledge and your unwaivering commitment to their website and airgunning. Based primarily on your knowledge and advice I have placed 4 orders with Pyramyd Air in just the last 90 days. One of those orders was in excess of $1,400.00. I would humbly suggesst to Pyramyd Air that you be compensatad on a "per word" basis. Please keep up the great work. Really appreciated. kevin
Kevin,
If you really want to thank me, you could post that last message on today's blog. We have a new guy there who has been told by one of the other readers he will probably spend over $1,500 in the next 12 months and he just doesn't believe it. He says he spends all his big money on long-range centerfire rifles!
I'd love him to see how true that prediction is.
B.B.
B.B,
You're probably tired of hearing this but..you were right, again. Spent quite a bit of time this weekend with my newly acquired diana 27 (.177 caliber). Took a tin of rws meisterkugeln's and a tin of rws superdome's to my place in the mountains. My neighbor stopped by while I was shooting targets and told me about his gamo that he can't hit the broad side of a barn with. I gave him a quick B.B. lesson on a light artillery hold for a springer and he was grouping shots within an inch at 20 yards in no time with the diana 27 (open sites). He ran back to his place, got his gamo and some crossman premiers and we had a ball. After shooting the crossman premiers, the rws superdomes, the rws meisterkugeln's, the cheap daisy pellets that came with the gun and some old crossmans in a tin, the meisterkugeln's far and away are the most accurate in the diana 27. Surprising since my diana 54 (.22 caliber) is most accurate with the crossman premiers. I think my neighbor, Jack, will soon become another one of your fans. After dusting off his gamo and learning a light hold he has a renewed excitment for shooting his springer. He asked for your blog address. Watch out, I think you may have hooked another one. kevin
Kevin,
Good for you - passing it on.
B.B.