Velocity by Tom Gaylord from Pyramyd Air” /> Velocity, airguns report post” />

Friday, January 18, 2008

The Benjamin Discovery - Part 3
Velocity

by Tom Gaylord

Part 1
Part 2

Before we begin, I have some announcements.

This will probably miss those for whom it's intended. For some reason, people have been emailing airgun questions to which they want immediate answers to tomgaylord@pyramydair.com. That address is for podcast questions, only. I never answer those messages. If you have a question, ask it here. Though there are now more than 750 blog entries, I get the comments from each of them all the time. I go to the segment where the question was asked and I try to answer it there. I do not send emails directly.

Right now, I'm getting 30-50 questions every day. It takes 3-4 hours a day just to keep up with the comments. I want to do it, but as the volume increases I can see the day coming when I can't do it. What takes the most time is when someone asks me to choose a scope or a set of mounts for them. Another question that takes time is when a person wants me to compare four rifles for them and give reasons for my choices. I may have to stop answering those questions soon so I can answer the fundamental questions from new airgunners.

One of our own, .22 multi-shot, has his own blog. I went there and took a tour and so should you. I'm fascinated by the air-powered car that gets 800 km on 1.7 liters of fuel. As long as it's not plutonium, that's great mileage!

Another reader, John, just bought a Crosman M1 Carbine. It came without the BB holder, as so many do, so he wondered if a real M1 Carbine mag could be altered to fit. Go here to see how he did it.

Now, on to today's topic and the Benjamin Discovery!

More development history
Remember those good-looking groups I showed you at 21 yards in Part 2? Well what I didn't tell you was the gun was also very quiet. I was so thrilled that I emailed Crosman and told them they had made a quiet airgun. Then I thought about it some more and the reason for the quiet dawned on me. The valve was in partial lock and I was shooting slow. For those wanting a sneak peek at CO2 performance, that was it, but a lot slower. My point is, accuracy doesn't suffer at close range when velocity drops.

Flirting with valve lock
Sure enough, the chronograph showed that the .177 was shooting Crosman 10.5-grain Premiers at about 575 and shooting .22 caliber Premiers at about 500! The valve wasn't opening all the way. So, I continued to shoot and both guns came up on the power curve at around 1,700 psi. I had filled them to 2,000 psi on my pump's gauge, which was pretty close to the built-in manometers on each rifle. Clearly, these guns didn't like that. You may recall some time back I told you about the inaccuracy of a small pressure gauge. It had happened to me! By careful testing, I'd found the point at which each rifle wanted to be filled, which turned out to be above 1700 but below 1800 on the pump gauge I was using. Who cares what pressure it really was, because that gauge was all I had to go on.

No free lunch
Once I found the right fill pressure, the guns started barking with great authority. And there's an answer to those who asked about the sound. These rifles are loud, just like any other PCPs in their power class. There has been some talk on the forums that because the rifle runs on 2000 psi, it should be quieter. Well, it isn't. My Barnes .25 that ran on 800 psi and had a 33-inch barrel wasn't quiet, either. Face it, guys, PCPs make noise.

Did Crosman think about a shrouded barrel? Yes, they did. They even considered putting one on the Discovery, but I strongly opposed it, because the cost of the rifle was climbing too fast. I wanted something everyone could afford to begin with, and we would worry about the issues of adjustable triggers and barrel shrouds on the next model. The Discovery is supposed to open the doors to precharged airguns, not to be the perfect PCP.

Initial velocity
Back to my report...the initial velocity in .177 peaked at 953 f.p.s. with 7.9-grain Crosman Premiers and in .22, using Premiers, a peak of 834 f.p.s. The power curve was not flat for more than 20 shots, but if you could accept a wider velocity variation (about 45 f.p.s.), there were around 35 shots to each fill. Say what you want about the wide spread, those tight groups at 50 yards were shot with the gun in this initial state of tune.

Additional refinements
At this time, the design engineer and I were discussing seals for the manometer, which was causing a minor problem. It sealed fine with plumber's tape around the threads, but plumber's tape is not a production sealant. Crosman needed something that was faster, required less labor and was positively reliable (no dependence on the skill of the worker). They settled on a flat seal, but then there were durometer questions to be answered (the hardness of the sealing material).

Another project he was working on was a filter to trap dirt before it enters the reservoir. Many, if not most PCPs do not have such a filter, but the Discovery does. It won't make the gun any more accurate, but it's evidence of the approach they took when building this gun.

After a couple months of playing with both rifles, Crosman changed the valve design and I was asked to return them both for an update. When I did, they also sent me the new breech cap that has a hole for the degassing tool. That's how you dump the reservoir to change types of gasses, want to ship the gun or when you've overfilled the reservoir (which happens only with air).


End cap of the receiver has a hole for a special tool that Crosman calls the degasser. It dumps the reservoir in seconds whenever desired.


A new valve
When the rifles were returned to me, both would accept a fill to 2000 psi on my pump gauge. The manometer on the .177 showed exactly 2000 when filled, and the needle on the .22 manometer just kissed the low edge of 2000 when filled. Neither manometer appeared to have been changed. Velocities were definitely up with the new valve. In .177, the high was now 975 with 7.9-grain Premiers, so lighter pellets will have no difficulty breaking 1,000 f.p.s. Of course, you'll actually shoot Crosman 10.5-grain Premiers and JSB 10.2-grain Exacts with velocities in the high 800s up to 900, because you want the most accuracy possible.

.22 performance
The .22 hit 860 f.p.s. with Premiers and averaged 856 for a string of 25. There are still 35 good accurate long-range shots in both rifles. If you shoot at 25 yards or less, you'll get even more. Accuracy remains unchanged. Many months later, after much more shooting, a retest showed the average had settled back to 820, which is probably more like what you should expect to see in the long run. I would guess 820-840 will be where they end up. The number of total shots is still 35 if you accept a larger spread, but hunters who shoot at 40-60 yards will probably go with a string of 25. At 820 with Premiers, the gun has 21.36 foot-pounds. With Kodiaks, the velocity drops back to about 700 and the energy climbs to 22.85. Kodiaks are about the heaviest pellet I'd use with this rifle.

There's the bulk of the report - the gun, accuracy and velocity. I've been asked to report the gun on CO2, which I'll do next month. If you have any questions I failed to address, please make comments and I'll look at them.

209 Comments:

At January 18, 2008 6:05 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

We still haven't seen any hard numbers on the 35 "usable" shots from the Discovery. What is the fps difference between the fastest and slowest shot in the 35 shot string? This looks like a lot of gun for the money, but a little more info would be appreciated. What is the size of the reservoir.
Does this gun have a power adjuster? Thanks.

 
At January 18, 2008 6:17 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

I gave you the velocity spread in this report.

I don't have the reservoir size. There is no power adjuster.

B.B.

 
At January 18, 2008 6:44 AM, Anonymous JP said...

You mention about 20 good shots from it on the lower 1700 pressure. I assume those 20 shots are all within accuracy, right? None of them drop off downrange due to the pressure loss? Anyway, 20 sounds plenty for a good rabbit hunt. Now I just gotta' get the purchase authorization past my wife..... JP

 
At January 18, 2008 6:51 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

JP,

Actually, the whole 35 shots are accurate at 50 yards I shot many groups at 50 in each caliber without refilling.

B.B.

 
At January 18, 2008 6:51 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB,

is the endcap the same as in the 2300S? With a bolt in the threaded hole it should be possible to adjust the hammerspring and to tune the power.

Is the discovery already patented? I can´t find any diagrams.

Markus

 
At January 18, 2008 6:54 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Markus,

The end caps should be the same.

Rifles are never patented. Only improvements. I would assume if there are any new ideas in the gun they have been applied for.

B.B.

 
At January 18, 2008 6:54 AM, Blogger Mark said...

Thanks BB, I am very interested in the Discovery. Currently shooting a RWS48 tuned following your series with the James Maccari spring; It is nice but heavy with a good kick. Shooting the crosmen pump with zero kick is pleasing because you see the target hit through the scope as it happens verses being off the target from the recoil.

My question is how much louder than the 48 will the Discovery be?

Thanks,

 
At January 18, 2008 7:04 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Mark,

The Discovery is louder than a Blue Streak on 8 pumps, if that helps. So is a Daystate Harrier.

B.B.

 
At January 18, 2008 7:20 AM, Blogger Mark said...

ouch. For me that sound level is a show stopper. Have to stick with my 48 till I can justify the cost of a Air Force Talon SS (much less visually appealing than the discovery) with pump which is nearly $700 and also a show stopper at that price.

Thank you, I learn a ton on your blogs.

 
At January 18, 2008 7:50 AM, Blogger K. Rihanek said...

Keeping the cost down and making the Discovery an entry PCP gun was the right path. It can't be perfect at this price. It has good power and accuracy. The package is a great value.

 
At January 18, 2008 8:12 AM, Blogger Robert said...

Will shrouds be available in the future? Or are they available now from other sorces?
I would love to get this rifle but I have a Sheridan now and know what it sounds like at 8 pumps.
Also in the future will upgraded models be available?

 
At January 18, 2008 8:31 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

First, a question about the Discovery, in the first segment it was compared in size to the Crossman 2260. My son has a 2260 which seems to me to be proportioned for a younger or smaller framed person. I have trouble shooting it comfortably. You also mention it had a different stock than the 2260. Does the Discovery have a more robust feel to it, or does it retain compact lines of the 2260? To be specific, does the Discovery have the same “pull length” as the 2260?

Second, I have found this blog to be entertaining, very educational, and a great resource. I would hate to see it change, but also realize at some point the time required to answer questions from past post will become prohibitive. Your introduction of other blogs as well as some general guidelines for asking questions should help. Some other options would be more guest reports, or possibly farming out some basic questions to other experts.
In any case thank you and Pyramyd Air for providing such a great forum.


DCS

 
At January 18, 2008 9:08 AM, Blogger Andrew said...

I have two questions..

First, Would you consider this a good "first" PCP for someone???

Second, is Pyramyd Air going to be selling just the gun???? Crosman sells the gun and pump or just the gun. Will Pyramyd Air do the same???

 
At January 18, 2008 9:10 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

DCS,

The pull on my prototype stock is 13-3/4". I can't say what a walnut stock is.

B.B.

 
At January 18, 2008 9:19 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Robert,

Crosman will probably shroud their next PCP. It will be an upgraded rifle that probably will have an adjustable trigger. I pushed for a choked barrel, as well. We'll see.

B.B.

 
At January 18, 2008 9:27 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Andrew,

This is the perfect first PCP for anyone. It gets you in the game and doesn't give up anything, as far as accuracy and power are concerned.

I announced in part 1 of the report that Pyramyd Air will sell the gun combo starting next month. I believe they will be selling the gun by itself, as well as the package. Crosman knows there are about a couple thousand PCP owners here in the U.S. who may not need another pump, so they thought to sell the rifle by itself.

But the bulk of those who will buy it have never owned a PCP. That's potentially over a hundred thousand new shooters, because once the word gets out that this pellet rifle can out-shoot a Ruger 10/22 Target for a lot less money, there's going to be a stampede to the stores.

B.B.

 
At January 18, 2008 10:13 AM, Anonymous BG_Farmer said...

BB,

I just saw the LOP measurement -- good news for those who hate huge stocks on small rifles. There will be a dozen custom stock options in a week for the thumbhole and benchrest crowd, anyway. Most of the reviews and feedback I have seen so far praise the gun for its trim size and light weight, another indication that Crosman may have paid some attention to its target market:) and may have a bigger segment than they think.

 
At January 18, 2008 10:14 AM, OpenID JedidiahJesup said...

If only Wal-Mart would sell it, to get an even better deal, and laugh at my friends with their over priced euro-PCPs haha.


But then again, I don't Wal-Mart getting a big head for good reputation since everything else is cheap there and made in China.

I do buy Crosman pellets and co2 there caue its cheaper though.

 
At January 18, 2008 10:23 AM, Anonymous shootski said...

Thank you for the informative and as always comprehensive Blog. Most of the questions could be answered with the cut and paste function; but then a re-reading by the questioner would be even faster :) Please put you efforts toward the "newbi" questions their purchases make sure us old hands get the "insider" upgrades from the industry.
Thank You,
Shootski

 
At January 18, 2008 10:36 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Feedback for BB and Crosman.

You mentioned a possible shrouded model. About how long do you think it will take until this is a reality? Shroud it and they will come.

Thanks,

Barry

 
At January 18, 2008 10:56 AM, Anonymous Dr. G. said...

B.B./Blog Readers,
I am having trouble finding the proper size 12 gram co2 cartridges for my Drozd bb rifles, which I have been enjoying for the past year. The Crossman cartridges were always a tiny bit too long (perhaps a few millimeters) to fit, and so I had successfully used Daisy cartridges. In my most recent order to PA, the Daisy cartidges that I received were slightly different than the previous several orders in how they were capped, resulting in them being slightly too long to fit. PA customer service thought there might be a way to adjust the Drozd metal probe which fits against the bottome of the CO2 cartridge, but we were unable to accomplish this (unable to remove a pin), and PA was unsure of how to proceed other than suggesting trying Gamo CO2 cartridges. Any suggestions anybody? Thank you. - Dr. G.

 
At January 18, 2008 11:43 AM, Anonymous Alfred said...

Off Topic FYI

I called Pyramid concerning resealing my old Sheridan (actually stamped Sheridan Products Inc.) and found out that
1.) Pyramid air does not perform repairs on this

2.) The reseal kit will not work on the older Real sheridans.

Crosman does, however, keep a database of folks do repairs on these models and were able to get me a number of a repair shop within 50 miles of me. (most of which would be sitting on a ferry anyway)

 
At January 18, 2008 12:03 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.

I understand absolutely about you possibly not being able to answer all the questions; I can't believe that you answer all that you do. I will continue to put my questions into the ring, naturally, but understand absolutely if you don't answer.

On the subject of CO2, I know that if you fire shots in rapid succession that it heats the gas and somehow causes you to lose velocity. My question is to what extent you can get around this by burst firing--where you fire as fast as you can? Will this allow you to get off a number of shots before the gas effect kicks in or does it happen right away? I shoot the 1077 indoors at 20 feet without waiting for it to cool without any adverse effect, but perhaps this is too close to see a change. Thanks.

Matt61

 
At January 18, 2008 12:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow, great report! The numbers are only about 5-10 fps short of my RWS .22 460 Mag. I really would like one but for now I will stick to my 460 because 1) I can't have that kind of noise in my backyard and my springer is firing just above the Discovery and is really accurate. Maybe I see myself purchasing the next upgraded model.
Great Report!

 
At January 18, 2008 12:09 PM, Anonymous Alfred said...

Hi Matt,

The effect is actually from the oposite of heating up. The CO2 actually acts as a refrigerant. The cooling tempreatures actually decrease the preasure that the CO2 generates (less of it evaporates to gas at a time), that is what causes the drop in speed. The faster you pull the trigger, the more effeciently the CO2 acts as a refrigerant, and the less effeciently it acts as a propellant. Once the CO2 powerlet warms back up, preasures will come back up.

 
At January 18, 2008 12:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wonder if all this hype is going to work against this rifle. Sure lots have pre purchased but things can change fast. The chrony numbers seem kid friendly. Can we get 2500 fills with an updated valve.

 
At January 18, 2008 12:53 PM, Anonymous .22 multi-shot said...

BB,

Wow, thanks for the plug! I am working on getting the next post up today.

.22 multi-shot

 
At January 18, 2008 1:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

this is one of those times I am quite proud of my "reading comprehension". bb, I understand why you will have to limit the questions you answer. I'm not denegrating anyone, but with some of the questions that are asked of you (with the answers staring people in the face, or somewhere else in other blogs), I believe some people should not be allowed to own airguns. I definitely wouldn't want to be shooting anywhere near them.

 
At January 18, 2008 2:01 PM, Anonymous Vince said...

In something completely unrelated, I found out one reason the MP513 is so light. The compression tube is aluminum - never seen THAT before...

 
At January 18, 2008 2:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

1 Thanks for running such a great blog

2 If most of your time is spent with a similar set of questions, why not create a chart with prominent links to & from Pyramyd's home page? List the most common guns giving rise to the questions, with a couple scopes for each with appropriate mounts?

 
At January 18, 2008 2:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks Alfred. That's unintuitive to me that CO2 cools down the faster you shoot, but I guess that makes sense since CO2 generally loses function in cooler weather. So, can you beat the effect by firing in bursts?

Matt61

 
At January 18, 2008 2:28 PM, Anonymous Alfred said...

Well the effect is that the faster you shoot the faster the CO2 cools. Instead of shooting as fast as you can, take a shot, and wait two or three seconds before taking another. Think of it as "Sustained fire" rather than "Rapid Fire". This method of shooting is taught in the military for assault rifles to keep the barrels cool, and it should work the oposite for you.

 
At January 18, 2008 2:39 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Alfred,

Thanks for that update. They told me they fix anything, but that must no longer be true.

B.B.

 
At January 18, 2008 2:48 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Prominent links,

I'm working on it.

B.B.

 
At January 18, 2008 2:57 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Barry,

Regarding the shrouded model, Crosman was talking about it during the development of the Discovery. I know they are working on another gun, but I'm not part of the development team. I would think that one will have a shroud.

When will it come out? Well, if I were to guess, it would be very late this year, but that's just a guess.

B.B.

 
At January 18, 2008 3:07 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Dr. G.,

I don't think Daisy makes their own CO2 cartridges. I have a bulk box of 500 from Crosman that has a mixture of Crosman and Daisy cartridges in it. I'm not saying Crosman makes Daisy's cartridges, but there aren't that many companies who make CO2 cartridges.

I pulled a Daisy and a Crosman cartridge from that box an miked them. The Crosman measures 3.260" long and the Daisy measures 3.257" . That's so close it's due to manufacturing variance.

I don't know how to adjust the Drozd CO2 container.

B.B.

 
At January 18, 2008 3:07 PM, Anonymous JJ said...

Hi BB,

JJ here,

Bringing up an old question ....

If there were only some way to search the comments, as well as the blogs/articles, much of the repetition could be avoided.

Perhaps PA or Google could add that feature to the blog, along with "prominent links".

jj

 
At January 18, 2008 3:14 PM, Anonymous .22 multi-shot said...

Matt,

The reason CO2 cools down is because of the liquid to gas conversion of pressurized CO2. When some of the gas is used, the pressure decreases so part of the liquid turns into gas. To turn into gas, some of the ambient heat is absorbed by the molecules that become gas (the gaseous state requires more energy). The effect is that everything cools down (the heat has been taken away from it).

.22 multi-shot

 
At January 18, 2008 3:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wonder how the regulated 2000PSI tank from crosman would perform on an Airforce Talon rifle equipped with the CO2 adapter?

 
At January 18, 2008 3:35 PM, Anonymous nate in mass said...

jj,
You can already do that using the search box at the right of the page.

Nate in Mass

 
At January 18, 2008 3:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks to all for the CO2 information. Two or three seconds is not that long to wait.

Matt61

 
At January 18, 2008 4:14 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

For Dr. G,

...the square plunger under the 12 gram is adjustable and threaded. the pin holds it in place once you get it adjusted properly for inserting the cartridges. It usually doesn't take more than a quarter turn or half turn at most.

I have also found most Gamo cartridges to work well.

 
At January 18, 2008 4:25 PM, Anonymous jj said...

Nate,

That search box will find text in the blogs themselves, but so far can not search for text in the comments, or search for the posters in the comments.

jj

 
At January 18, 2008 4:49 PM, Anonymous DaPhotoGuy said...

I know they were trying to keep the price down, but WHY didn't they include about 1 1/2 inches more of barrel length so that if someone WANTED to add a LDC for noise control they COULD???

 
At January 18, 2008 5:31 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

JJ,

An advanced search like you want is only possible when Blogger makes it happen. Blogger is owned by Google.

They probably will someday, though not many blogs are as large as this one has become. It's not that we are old, but we have been posting steadily.

B.B.

 
At January 18, 2008 5:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

daphotoguy:Looks like an overall clean design? We now know shrouded versions will follow!-- How about another inch on the 397/392?!!That would be GREAT!!

 
At January 18, 2008 6:08 PM, Anonymous jj said...

BB,

I was remembering one of our prior "conversations", and explaining to Nate the limits of the current search function.

And also requesting that Google add that function to your blog, with maybe an additional push from PA, to save you from having to repeat so much information.

jj

 
At January 18, 2008 6:16 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

JJ,

They won't code it just for us. It will take a rewrite of the Blogger baseline. There has to be enough demand.

B.B.

 
At January 18, 2008 6:43 PM, Anonymous Jerry said...

B.B.
I've just ordered a Discovery via Pyramyd. I need another PCP like I need a hole in the head but I want to encourage US manufacturers to bring quality products to amrket at reasonable prices. And, my two youngest kids will find this gun easier to shoot than the heavier and more complicated guns we have. I think Crosman has a hit on its hands and I applaud your involvement.
Now for the cautionary note: Tuners and tinkerers of all or no skill levels are already looking for more power. I could care less about the guys putting better triggers in or a fancy stock but you can bet some knucklehead is already coming up with a plan to get 100 FPE out of this gun. I hope it's not sold before it blows apart!
I know you've written about improper and illadvised mods before but I wish you would again. Just this week I learned about someone loosing teeth due to a "tuned" gun and also about a "tuner" who lost a finger (and who's website disappeared afterwards). Not every gun is designed to have its power doubled and silly airgun tricks that hurt people will harm the hobby.

 
At January 18, 2008 7:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.,

When you recommended the UTG Tactedge 4x40 when I was asking about a fixed power scope, I also found your review on it. In there, you mentioned that it would be a fine fixed power scope for a centerfire rifle as well. Well, I'm looking at buying both a Marlin 60 .22LR and a Mossberg 100 ATR .30-06 in the near future. Just like with my RWS 48, I want a fixed power scope for them. Would the UTG be a good option? FYI, I'd be sighting in the .22 at 50 yds and the .30-06 at 100 yds. And since I know you'll wonder, I don't want a variable power for the .30-06, because I don't imagine I'd be taking anything longer than a 100-yd shot with it. My hunting environment just doesn't permit it.

Thanks,

Felipe

 
At January 18, 2008 8:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jerry:Good point! But as BB. said,Joe six pack says, if 2000 psi. is good,,then 3000 psi. is better!(I think he was talking about me!!) Valve lock will shut them down! Lets let the pro after market guys play w/ this one!! Besides,isnt 20 plus ft. lbs. PLENTY!! Also Cros. is USA!!!Across the "POND" they are Hmm? If Joe 6 pack decides to lose a finger, Im Sorry, he has 9 left! Not to be insensative my fr.--Take responsability!!

 
At January 18, 2008 8:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

That last guy is DragonSlayer (Tim).

 
At January 19, 2008 8:40 AM, Anonymous PA Gunner said...

wow. i figured id stay with spring piston guns for a while cause i dont want to pump up after every few shots, or pay huge money for gu/pump. however, this looks great! i think you said it gets 35 shots per fill?, and its adaptable to co2! for cheap! cool!! :)*)

 
At January 19, 2008 9:30 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Jerry,

Dangerous airguns? Yes, I'll do that.

B.B.

 
At January 19, 2008 9:32 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Felipe,

Yes, I'd recommend the UTG Tactedge scope for both firearms. In fact, I may rescope my own .30-06 with one.

B.B.

 
At January 19, 2008 10:22 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So there's no issue with parallax? To be honest, I'm not really sure what that does to one's accuracy (I've never used a scope, so I'm not even familiar with the phenomenon), so I wasn't sure if it would come into play with the longer ranges of the firearms.

 
At January 19, 2008 10:29 AM, Anonymous Don in Indiana said...

Using Google,

mysearchterm site: www.pyramydair.com/blog

(Enclose the searchterm in quotes if lookng for a phrase. ie "my search term")

finds results in the comments for me...

Hope that helps someone.

Safe Shooting...

 
At January 19, 2008 10:53 AM, Anonymous PA Gunner said...

b.b.,
are you going to test any of the interchangeable caliber guns like the hammerli x2?

 
At January 19, 2008 10:58 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

The farther out from the gun you go, the less influence parallax has. Firearm shooters seldom think about it.

B.B.

 
At January 19, 2008 11:16 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

PA Gunner,

Well, I've already tested the Beeman 1000 and the AirForce guns. I may get around to the Hammerli, too.

B.B.

 
At January 19, 2008 12:52 PM, Anonymous Shooter said...

Hi BB,

Sorry for stating the obvious here. The first sign of needing a little down time from this blog is recognizing that down the road you may not be able to handle all these questions. Please take some time off each week to recover. Go fishing or to the movies or whatever. I'm sure that most of us will understand that sometimes you need to back up, even from work that you love. Running the blog daily would wear out even a robot. In the meantime, I think I can speak for all when I say that your work here is greatly appreciated and invaluable to all of us. We don't want to lose you to burnout.

/Shooter

 
At January 19, 2008 1:50 PM, Anonymous PA Gunner said...

B.B. i cant find which one. do you have a link?

 
At January 19, 2008 2:52 PM, Blogger DragonSlayer said...

Shooter: Very well said! Like the Eng. Bunny,He Never Stops! Maybe if you more experienced guys could answer some of the questions it could take some pressure off BB.? Just a thought. BB., enjoy your RV. trip! Take your fishing rod, Ok, you can also "fish" w/ a PCP. for the ones that linger close to the surface!! LOL. Tim.

 
At January 19, 2008 4:27 PM, Anonymous BG_Farmer said...

BB,

+1. I think the reason you're so popular is that you give straight answers and aren't a pompous, defensive ____, as would usually be expected from someone with your credentials. It was amazing to me (and still is) when I found this blog that you even allowed comments, questions, criticisms, etc., and responded openly to them. It feels more like a good classroom than a sales demonstration, and it can be addictive. For my part, I will try to keep questions to myself from now on. Sorry if we're wearing you down.

 
At January 19, 2008 5:26 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

PA Gunner,

Here are some links:

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2007/12/beeman-ss1000h-dual-caliber-rifle-combo_11.html

That's a 5-parter on the Beeman.

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2007/03/airforce-co2-adapter-is-put-to-test_19.html

2-parter on the Condor on CO2

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2006/03/turning-airforce-condor-into-talon-ss.html

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2006/03/turning-airforce-condor-into-talon-ss.html

B.B.

 
At January 19, 2008 5:31 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

/Shooter,

Not to worry. That very day I busted the caps of about 200 .45 ACP rounds.

My busman's holiday consists of shooting firearms, many of which I reload for.

I cleared my head and got another chapter in the Taurus saga.

B.B.

 
At January 19, 2008 5:36 PM, Anonymous PA Gunner said...

B.B. thanks.

 
At January 19, 2008 6:26 PM, Blogger DragonSlayer said...

B.B., Good for you! Tim.

 
At January 19, 2008 7:04 PM, Blogger DragonSlayer said...

After an all day shoot w/ my son today, we both came to the conclusion that w/ my Diana 460,Cros. G-1,& his Gamo big cat Kodiak Match pels. far out performed all others(accuracy wise). Ive heard that Barracuda match pels. are the same, & considering P.A. is offering such a great sale price, any thoughts before we order?? P.S., CPH was a close second. Thanks,Tim & John, AKA. Verminator!

 
At January 19, 2008 7:55 PM, Anonymous Shooter said...

Great BB,

Amazing how the zen of shooting can relax you. I think that the non-shooting world doesn't understand that it's a lot like right brain woodworking, martial arts, painting or gardening. Just a different method to reach the same goal. A little disconnect from the world.

/Shooter

 
At January 20, 2008 8:29 AM, Anonymous JP said...

Probably a far off question, but do you think they would make a .25 caliber model, or perhaps if you special order? What about a re-bore and rifling? Impracticle? JP

 
At January 20, 2008 10:00 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

JP,

Crosman hasn't shown any interest in .25 caliber, so I think they won't produce it. As for custom orders, they have to make the parts before they can add them to guns, and since they don't rifle .25 caliber barrels, I think that's out, too.

Could someone in the aftermarket do it? Certainly. Dennis Quackenbush seems like a likely person because he rifles his own .25 barrels and he's already converted the 2240 pistol to .25 (with his own proprietary steel receiver). The receiver is the same for the Discovery, so Dennis seems like a good bet.

There is no such thing as a rebore in the airgun world. While I would stop short of saying it's never been done, I don't think it has. Airgun barrels are too thin, plus most airgunsmiths don't have the deep-hole drilling expertise and equipment needed for that job.

B.B.

 
At January 20, 2008 12:26 PM, Anonymous Shooter said...

JP,

Don't forget Lothar Walther. They make choked or unchoked .25 cal airgun barrels for $101/ea. I bought one of their .22 barrels for my project gun (which is currently stalled on the drawing table and a pile of parts due to lack of time...). Lothar deals through email or snail mail, not an online buy unless they've updated their site. Here's a direct link.

http://www.lothar-walther.de/html/262.php

Then all you have to do is find someone to install it for you. Maybe BB or one of the other guys can help with that.

Hope that helps,
/Shooter

 
At January 20, 2008 2:50 PM, Anonymous Shooter said...

Hi again BB,

I have a rather long, post break-in review of my Ihz MP 513M in .22 written. Well, long to post here maybe, you tell me. It's about a page and a half in MSWord at 12 pt type (NTR). I tested mostly for velocity/ muzzle energy with 12 different kinds of pellets. If you want, I'll post it here. If not, I'll make a page for it somewhere when I get the time and just post the link here for anyone who's interested.

/Shooter

 
At January 20, 2008 5:07 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Shooter,

I'd like to take a look at it. Can you email it to me?

B.B.

 
At January 20, 2008 5:43 PM, Anonymous Shooter said...

BB,

Sure, do you want it at your tomgaylord@pyramydair.com address?

/Shooter

 
At January 20, 2008 7:17 PM, Anonymous Shooter said...

What a bone headed question. Of course you do. What was I thinking!?

/Shooter

 
At January 20, 2008 7:27 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Will the discoveries coming out in March have the new valve or old vavle system?

hegshen

 
At January 20, 2008 9:30 PM, Anonymous Vince said...

Shooter, could you post the link? I'd like to compare notes with mine.

BTW - have you stripped your MP513 down yet? It's an interesting mechanism... and after I got mine apart, it took me a while to figure out how on earth I was gonna get it all back together again.

 
At January 21, 2008 6:26 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

hegshen,

They will have the new valve. That was the purpose of creating it.

B.B.

 
At January 21, 2008 6:36 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Vince,

I have /Shooter's report. If he's okay with it, I will post it soon under his handle. The numbers are all there.

B.B.

 
At January 21, 2008 10:24 AM, Anonymous pcp4me said...

This is my first post on any blog. I sure hope this Discovery lives up to it's potential as I ordered one from PA on Tom's review of this gun.

I have arthritis in both hands and shoulders, so the light weight, no recoil and easy pumping will be greatly appreciated.

I already have a 5 pound CO2 tank to fill my various other CO2 guns and it has a Foster female quick disconnect so I won't even need an adapter or CO2 paint ball tank!

This is exactly the gun I have been looking for. With CO2 I can shoot in my basement range at hopefully lower velocities than air and then charge air for hunting.

WOW! Tom thank you for your recommendations to Crossman. And Crossman, thank you for listening to Tom! I love the idea of finally owning an American made gun which really performs and is great value for the money!

 
At January 21, 2008 10:40 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

pcp4me,

I'm glad you found a rifle to use. Please tell us how it goes when you get it.

B.B.

 
At January 21, 2008 1:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Mr P. I own a Condor with both the supplied tank and the low power tank. I have a .22 xp with a bulk fill tank and a Crosman Shotgun converted to bulk fill. I have 2300psi scuba tank for the Condor and my 3 Brocock 1851 Navies and a 15 lb CO2 bulk tank. I know what I am doing with the Condor and the Brococks but the CO2 has me really confused. The fill adaptor on the Discovery is very different than anything I have had expeience with. My POINT ? I don't really know what I am doing with CO2 and so am not using any of my bulk fill guns. No local support as I live in Idaho where only real steel is a real gun. Please, any suggestions as to learning about CO2. I have talked my self into a Discovery as a learning tool. If you think that a later version of the Discovery will have trigger and shroud upgrades should I wait? See, there are dumb questions.

 
At January 21, 2008 2:06 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

What do you want? To learn how to bulk-fill a CO2 gun? Read this:

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2006/03/working-with-bulk-fill-co2-guns.html

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2006/03/bulk-fill-part-2.html

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2006/03/bulk-fill-part-3.html

No the Discovery will not get a shroud, nor will it get a trigger upgrade.

B.B.

 
At January 21, 2008 6:12 PM, Anonymous v_dave said...

Sorry if I missed this but i scanned the comments and read the 3 part review. I was trying to find the scope mount set of for the discovery.

I may have overlooked it.

Also i have a 392, i think it uses the intermount available at Pyramidair. Is that the same for the Discovery?

thanks

 
At January 21, 2008 6:39 PM, Anonymous Shooter said...

BB and Vince,

Sorry for the delayed response. I can't access this blog, or any, from my work computer. Only regular email. Probably a good thing 'cause I'd never get anything done...

BB, just for the "public record": Yes it's fine with me if you post my 513 report.

Vince, I'd like to see your numbers on your 513 too for my own comparison. I didn't strip it down yet, but I looked at the diagram that came with it. Looks like an interesting setup. Was it tricky to get back together? I see that they expect you to lose those 2 little balls right away, since they included those in the spare parts kit.

Thanks again,
/Shooter

 
At January 22, 2008 6:52 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

v_dave,

I didn't mention a scope mount set for the Discovery because it's a PCP. Therr are no scope mounting problems with the rifle. It has a 9-inch scope rail and I would definitely use two-piece mounts, since they are by far more flexible. You can use anything you want, as long as it is made for an 11mm or 3/8" rail.

B.B.

 
At January 22, 2008 12:20 PM, Anonymous v_dave said...

Thanks BB

just wasn't sure if it was *challenging* like the 392 :)

 
At January 22, 2008 3:28 PM, Anonymous DB said...

BB,
When you get back to the Discovery testing will you consider looking at the new Crossman Discovery Hollow Point pellets (Benjamin-BHP22)?

At $10.97 for a tin of 500 they are almost twice the price of the Crosman Premier Hollow Point.

 
At January 22, 2008 3:39 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

DB,

Holy cow, you're right! I though the mixup must be due to a different pellet count of something, but they really are twice the price. But only AFTER they are dumped into the tin. Because they are all the same before that!

I think the thing to do is quietly stock up on several tins of the .22 Crosman hollowpoints. They are a deal!

B.B.

 
At January 22, 2008 9:02 PM, Anonymous Vince said...

Shooter, this is a link to my comments on the gun:

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=5795&mid=41654#M41654

Since then, velocity seems to have come up a bit. Super consistent, too.

 
At January 22, 2008 9:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello owners of the 513.
A friend of mine bought a 513 recently and it makes a dreadful racket when it's cocked - something like a grating spring or engauging rachets! is that normal for this rifle?
Ton

 
At January 23, 2008 4:47 AM, Blogger BobC said...

BB,

When Robert asked you A question at 10:19am, you answered "Crosman will probably shroud their next PCP. It will be an upgraded rifle that probably will have an adjustable trigger. I pushed for a choked barrel, as well. We'll see".

Later you answered Anonymous, "No the Discovery will not get a shroud, nor will it get a trigger upgrade". Is this the last word? As many country shooters that are out there, there are the same or probably more of us city shooters that absolutely must have A shroud. IMHO, if that is the way that Crosman is going, they are missing A large group of the shooting public.

BobC NJ

 
At January 23, 2008 6:07 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

BobC,

Yes, that is the last word. The Discovery is fully developed and, except for subtle improvements over the years, it is what it is.

My reference to a shrouded PCP from Crosman was that their NEXT model will probably be shrouded. In fact, I'm certain it will be. Don't ask when it will be out because I don't know. All I know is they are working on it now.

As for ":... more of us city shooters that absolutely must have A shroud", that isn't so certain. Many city shooters, me being one of them, don't shoot their powerful guns at home, so a shroud or a quiet gun isn't that necessary. When we want to shoot powerful airguns we go to a range or to the country to plink and hunt. However, there is enough interest that Crosman is incorporating one into the next design.

B.B.

 
At January 23, 2008 9:47 AM, Anonymous Vince said...

Ton, yes it is. It has a ratchet that prevents the barrel from returning to the "closed" position while cocking the gun, until the gun is fully cocked and the sear engaged.

 
At January 23, 2008 10:02 AM, Blogger BobC said...

BB,

Thank you for your prompt and to the point answer. It seems that Crosman didn't take that long to come out with the Benjamin Discovery(?), so, I'll shoot what I have and wait on them. If in the future you hear A tidbit about it, A hint to all of us would be appreciated.

I'm shipping the book by Pat Sweeney I told you about, and you should get it in A few days.

BobC NJ

 
At January 23, 2008 10:17 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

BobC,

I know they want to bring it out soon this year), but I also know there will be development holdups. I don't want to start an unfounded rumor about a gun people may not see for some time.

I'm leaving for the SHOT Show next Monday, so maybe you'd better hold that shipment up a few weeks?

B.B.

 
At January 23, 2008 8:42 PM, Anonymous DB said...

B.B.,
Thanks for letting us know the new Discovery pellets are just repackaged and overpriced Premiers.
DB

 
At January 24, 2008 5:21 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

DB,

That price was incorrect. They have lowered it, thanks to you.

B.B.

 
At January 25, 2008 2:32 AM, Blogger BobC said...

BB,

Thanks for that little tidbit. You ARE "Da Man".

Because the blog was down, I didn't see your post until that evening, after I had sent the book off. I sent it in care of Pyramyd Air. Enjoy. Have A great time at the Shot Show.

BobC NJ

 
At January 25, 2008 8:27 PM, Anonymous DB said...

B.B.,
Noticed the price change on the Discovery Pellets. That is better.

But the Premier (Crosman-LHP22) at $5.99 is better. Considering they are the same pellet.
DB

 
At January 28, 2008 2:20 PM, Anonymous dcannon said...

B.B.,

Tremendous set of posts, many thanks. Would you be able to post any more pics of the rifle? In particular I am interested in the bolt and breech, as this would seal the deal for me with this rifle.

Best Wishes

Dan

 
At January 28, 2008 7:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.
I own a Air force Condor and have been experiencing POI shifts that I can't solve. I've tried everything and have sent my rifle back to AF for them to inspect.
I came across your comments on the TalonSS and adjusting the tophat for optimal air release when shooting.
The video you made for the Condor doesn't mention how to adjust the top hat.
Could this be the cause of my POI shifts?
Could you elaborate how to do this adjustment for the Condor?
Thanks for any suggestions.

Hegshen

 
At January 29, 2008 6:14 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Hegshen,

Don't adjust the top hat on a CONDOR! They are adjusted at the factory and shouldn't be touched. The valve is completely different and adjusting the top hat can ruin it.

What you have sounds like a scope issue. Are you adjusted up close to the vertical limit? That can cause scope shift.

In your reply, please tell me the type of scope, mounts and how high the elevation is adjusted.

B.B.

 
At January 29, 2008 2:57 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.

I have done just about everything to try and solve the problem and have been usucessful:

1. Replaced the AF ring mounts w/ the suggested B-squre mount.
2. Replaced the BSA scope w/ a Barska sniper scope
3. Centered the scope according to the leupold website.
4. Sent the tank back to AF for the the upgraded valve system
5. Bought and used a laser bore sighter for the macroadjustments on the B-squre mount (used your blog on the b-squre mount for my guide).
6. Shoot using a 3-point gun rest
7. Ensured all allen screws on the b-square mount and gun were snug.
8. Fill the gun to 27-2800 psi.

It seems that the gun will shoot okay for the first 3-5 shots, then it will begin to drift to the left at 35 yards.
Below 35 yards the gun shoots slightly to the right.

The only thing I can think of is that the friction from the Kodiak pellets is enough to heat up the barrel and cause the POI to shift.
Or, perhpas the valve system is not working properly.

I realize there is human error involved in shooting and I am factoring that into my expectations, however the POI shifts that I am experiencing are not due to me shooting ability ( or lack thereof).

I am frustrated b/c I can't rely on the gun to stay sighted in and pretty much spend every shooting session making sure that it is sighted in from the time before.

I've sent the gun back to AF and hopefully they can solve the problem, but if not, do you have any other suggestions?

Thanks,
hegshen

 
At January 29, 2008 7:29 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

hegshen ,

I'm on the road going to the SHOT Show, but I think I know what your problem is. Your scope isn't aligned with your barrel. The key is it shoots to one side at one distance and the other side at a greater distance.

I have written about this phenomenon many times. It took me a long time to discover what it is.

Read this and we'll talk more.

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/03/what-causes-scope-shift.html

B.B.

 
At January 30, 2008 7:46 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.,
I've read your article on POI shift and that is why I changed to the b-square mount from the AF ring mounts.
I optically centered my scope using leupolod's directions (small mirror placed in front of the scope), not your method.
Is the leupold method as effective, or do I need to center it manually like you did?

After that I used the laser bore sighter and made adustments w/ the b-square to get the cross hairs as close the laser spot before adusting the scope.

I was still having POI problems and that's why I sent the gun back.
I'm baffled.

Hope the shot show is great. Look forward to hearing about it.

hegshen

 
At January 30, 2008 8:15 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Hegshen,

Leupold's method doesn't work. Try mine.

Wait until I return from the show and I can take some time with you. Feb 14.

B.B.

 
At January 31, 2008 6:17 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I saw you mentioned this rifle in .177 would make a good starting field target rifle. Would dropping the power to 12 ft lbs be as easy as just changing out the valve? I'm curious as to how hard that would be. I believe the 850 Air Magnum had 1 or 2 different valves available if you looked around for them. One was for the German market's set limit and of course the full power one for the American market.

Can't wait to see the shrouded version of the Discovery. Some way of adjusting the power would be nice too.

 
At February 17, 2008 7:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.,
Are you back from the shot show?

hegshen

 
At February 18, 2008 5:31 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

hegshen,

Yes. I've been back for a week.

B.B.

 
At February 18, 2008 9:20 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.,
You mentioned that you would elaborate on my accuracy difficulties with my AF condor. AF still has my rifle, but I expect it back this week.
Any further thoughts or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
hegshen

 
At February 18, 2008 9:48 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

hegshen,

Give me some time to analyze your situation and I will get back with you.

B.B.

 
At February 18, 2008 10:37 AM, Blogger virtualdave said...

Anyone know if the discovery's can go with "wet" CO2? or just "dry". Any damage going "wet"? or warranty issues?

thanks

 
At February 18, 2008 2:03 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

hegshen,

Okay, I'm ready to discuss this. First of all I need to know the amount of drift you are experiencing. At 35 yards if you have a 2-inch drift, that's significant. But if it's just 1/2", that's down in the noise and could be anything from you to the pellets to the wind.

So how much are you drifting?

Also, what pellets are you shooting?

I don't know anything about the Barska brand of scopes, so I cannot comment on the possibility for parallax error.

The fact that your rifle shoots slightly to the right under 35 yards is proof you have not centered the reticle optically. A left-right shift at different ranges is proof the reticle is out of alignment with the axis if the bore.

If you shoot with any wind at all you may be experiencing precession, which is why I need to know the amount of shift. At 35 yards using JSB Exact domes you should be able to shoot groups of about 0.30": with ease unless the wind is blowing. If it is, your groups can open to one inch with every five mph increase you experience. So pausing for perfect zero wind conditions is crucial.

Get back to me and we will explore this further.

B.B.

 
At February 18, 2008 8:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B,
I'm shooting Beeman Kodiaks. Typcially my drift is about 1-1.5 inches.
I should be recieving my gun back from AF this week.
I will try the labor intesive method you recommend to optically center my scope.
Question: Does optically centering the scope matter, if I'm using an adjustable B-squre mount w/ a laser bore sighter?

Hegshen

 
At February 19, 2008 7:40 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Hegswhen,

Okay, Kodiaks are good, but they are not the most accurate pellets in a Condor. The very best are JSB Exact domes, followed closely by Crosman Premiers. Both are shot on power level 4. At 35 yards, a great 5-shot group would be 0.30", so a good 10-shot would be 0.70" and a good 20-shot might be one inch. That would also be true of a good .22 rimfire target rifle.

A bore-sighter is completely unnecessary. Follow the sight-in procedure I outline in the following article:

http://www.pyramydair.com/articles/scopes-part3/

However, the scope alignment procedure is unnecessary for most shooting. I don't do it anymore, because it is so labor-intensive, as you point out.

You don't mention what you are trying to achieve, but I have my Condor sighted in for 20-30 yards and I can hit anything I want out to 50 yards. By "hit" I don't mean that I can hit my aim point every time. Nobody can do that, other than a field target shooter with a rifle that has been completely "dialed in." I used to have a rifle set up that way, and optical centering was part of the dialing-in process, but I no longer need to hit the exact spot I aim at. I can still take small game out to 50 yards with my Condor, which is all I ask of the rifle.

A Condor is not the rifle to dial in anyway. It's way too lightweight, and too powerful. If you want a rifle to dial in, the weight needs to be at least 11 lbs, and most FT shooters' guns weigh more than that.

B.B.

 
At February 19, 2008 10:16 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.,
So I don't need to optically center my scope?

hegshen

 
At February 19, 2008 1:32 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

hegshen,

Not only do you NOT need to optically center your scope, I tested your rifle today and it shoots fine.

I go to the AirForce plant from time to time to do my own testing for blogs, and they happened to show me your rifle (there were only two in for repairs, so it was pretty easy to determine which was yours). So I went over today and tested it quite thoroughly. Believe me, it shoots fine.

In fact, I documented everything I did and I will blog the whole ordeal, because I think there are plenty of other shooters who are having [problems similar to your who might like to learn how to properly test their rifles.

I signed and noted the test target which AirForce will return to you with the rifle. But you will see the same target in the blog before your rifle arrives.

B.B.

 
At February 21, 2008 8:26 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.,

Thank you for the personal attention!!
I look forward to reading about what you did and I will retry setting up my rifle as you explain on the blog.
Should I not go back to the two-piece AF rings or should I stick w/ the B-Square mount?

Thanks again,

hegshen

 
At February 21, 2008 8:35 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Hegshen,

I think you can save that B-Square mount for a problem gun. You will see that I used one when I tested your rifle but don't read anything into that. I simply popped it off my own Condor because it was already set up. It was just quicker that way. You'll even see that the B-Square mount I used is a prototype. The risers are not blued.

B.B.

 
At February 21, 2008 1:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.,
Where are you going to post your review of your findings? On this thread or elsewhere?

Hegshen

 
At February 21, 2008 1:48 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Hegshen,

It's a serialized report that starts tomorrow.

B.B.

 
At March 06, 2008 5:20 PM, Anonymous DB said...

BB or anyone,
Still waiting for my Discovery 22 to ship and noticed the degaser tool listed as a ship loose item.

I do not intend to use CO2. Will I need one anyway?

I thought the tool was included. Should I add one to my order?

Thanks,
DB

 
At March 06, 2008 5:34 PM, Anonymous DB said...

All,
Never mind about the degasser tool. The answer is in the blog... more or less.

It might be handy but is not required. One can dry fire the presure out if required.

Sorry for not reading first.

DB

 
At March 06, 2008 5:51 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

DB,

Good job. You only need the degasser if you absolutely have to have everything ever made for your gun.

B.B.

 
At March 10, 2008 7:03 PM, Anonymous db said...

BB,
The first shipment of Discovery 22 didn't include enough to fill all the order. So I'm waiting for the 3-21-08 shipment.

While I'm waiting I have time to ask a question. Should I consider using a pellet other than the CP? Thinking of lead fowling issues.

Basically same question (and I'll take input from anyone). Have you found a best pellet? Hopefully you've found the time to shoot some more with it since you finished the blog.

Thanks,
DB

 
At March 10, 2008 7:08 PM, Anonymous DB said...

Sorry intended to state "lead fouling" not "lead fowling".

Do not want to talk abou heavy birds or birds that have eaten lead shot.

 
At March 11, 2008 5:13 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

DB,

The JSB Exact was the most accurate pellet in the .22 I tested. If that's unavailable, try the Air Arms pellets, which are also JSB. Also try the Kodiak/Baracuda, whichever is cheaper.

B.B.

 
At March 11, 2008 10:56 PM, Anonymous db said...

B.B.,
Thank you... I'll see if PA will add some JSB Exact to the order. Can you recommend a specific JSP Exact... there are several choices.

Just for clarity is lead fouling going to be an issue in the Discovery 22? Is it powerful enough to cause lead fouling?

Thanks,
DB

 
At March 12, 2008 5:34 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

DB,

The 15.8-grain Exact, if possible.

B.B.

 
At March 15, 2008 11:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.,

Wanted to know your thoughts on the BSA lonestar compared to the Evanix AR6 for hunting.
I am considering between the two of them.
I realize pyramyd doesn't sell BSA products anymore (don't know why?)and I've found it difficult to get expert information about the BSA lonestar.
Thanks,
hegshen

 
At March 15, 2008 11:01 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are they comparable in accuracy?

 
At March 16, 2008 7:04 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

hegshen,

Pyramyd Air no longer carries BSA airguns because the supply is too erratic. The smaller airgun dealers can get them because they don't sell a lot of guns, but Pyramyd Air found that BSA could not supply the quantities they needed.

Although I haven't tested the BSA Lonestar (I've never even heard of it), BSA has a well-deserved reputation for barrel-making. They really know their stuff! So I would think the BSA will be as accurate or more accurate than the AR-6.

On the other hand, BSA guns typically fill to 230 bar, which you have to set up for. That means a carbon fiber tank or a Hill or AirForce hand pump.

B.B.

 
At March 27, 2008 2:11 PM, Anonymous db said...

PA has still not been able to ship a discovery to me. New promise date is 4-18. Sales people at Crosman must be going nuts with all the orders.

From Crosman's perspective it is a nice problem to have. From my perspective it is not so nice. But... I can wait another couple weeks.

 
At April 14, 2008 11:56 AM, Anonymous DB said...

B.B.,
Will you do a followup blog on the Benji Discovery? Would very much like to see how the after market power regulator works. Trigger mod would be a bonus... but I think there is enough out there already on the trigger mod.

Thanks,
DB

 
At April 14, 2008 12:08 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

DB,

Actually, Crosman is talking about sending me a new rifle to keep. My prototype .22 is pretty far from what's being sold now. And Crosman tells me they have now upgraded the trigger to what the aftermarket mods are doing.

The power adjust is something I'd like to check out.

So, yes, sometime this summer.

B.B.

 
At April 14, 2008 12:33 PM, Anonymous DB said...

B.B.,
So do you think when my Disco ships on 4/18 (maybe) it will already have the modified trigger?

If not I might ask PA to hold of shipping for a bit. Would actually feel better with a factory fix.

Would still like to see something on the power regulator mods. It would be nice to dial it down for backyard plinking.

Thank you,
DB
DB

 
At April 14, 2008 1:22 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

DB,

I have no idea when they might start applying the trigger. As for the power regulator - never. You have to lose the degassing feature they invented.

B.B.

 
At April 14, 2008 3:24 PM, Anonymous db said...

Thanks for the input. Good to know.

 
At April 14, 2008 3:34 PM, Anonymous db said...

Good news and bad news on my Disco that was order Feb. 23rd.

Bad news is PA pushed my ship date again new ship date is May 2nd. Making it about 2-1/2 months late... assuming it ships then.

Good news is maybe a delayed shipment will net me one with the upgraded trigger. Sure hope so.

 
At April 29, 2008 12:26 PM, Anonymous DB said...

Chances of getting Disco with factory upgraded trigger just improved. Ship date push out again. New promise is 5-9.

Glass is half full,
DB

 
At May 09, 2008 9:47 PM, Anonymous DB said...

Disco ship pushed out again. New promise is 5-16. Just another week.

DB

 
At May 18, 2008 12:17 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Reading an article in Predator Xtreme about the Discovery led me here. I'm intriuged by this gun because I have a lot of paintball equipment. CO2 tanks are handy and I could probably get a regulator for one of my tanks to do the 2000psi output needed to charge. The bonus is my tanks will hold 4500psi so I should get quite a few charges from one. They posted some specs on the volume of air that I haven't seen listed anywhere else so I'll quote them here: "The Discovery stores air in a reservoir made of carbon-steel DOM tubing, with a fill capacity of 135 cc (8.3 cubic inch)."
Nice blog, waiting for them to be readily available.

peace.
unloaded

 
At May 23, 2008 7:22 AM, Anonymous DB said...

Disco in 22cal with hand pump finally shipped on 5-19 – after a 90-day backorder delay. Didn't pay for premium shipping; but I was holding the gun in my hands early Wednesday morning. PA gave me a little bonus I guess.

So far everything good and bad stated here and in other blogs seems to ring true. My take on it so far is that it is a great low cost PCP. Didn't expect a perfect gun and didn't get one. But it does perform exactly as advertised... so far.

Accuracy out of the box was just OK. It got better with each shot and will no doubt continue to improve.

Iron sights have a great sight picture and the adjustments are crude but functional - as was expected. Looks like upgrading would be very easy.

Included hand pump is very nice. Had a rough sound for the first 50 strokes then smoothed out nicely. Filling the gun is a breeze not difficult at all. A ten year old girl could do it easy.

Shots are loud even after air pressure is very low. Have only tested out to 25 yards and found the groups to hold close across the pressure spread.

Stock is a bit short and awkward for me. It has about the same dimensions and lines as a youth 22-cal single shot. After a few shots you adjust to it and forget that it was not a natural hold.

Trigger seemed harsh but tolerable. Some creep but with a crisp break. Hopefully will break in or get upgraded.

Only cause for pause was the gun rattled very loudly before the first fill. This stopped after the fill. Guess it was a check valve bouncing. Gun still rattles a little when shaken; but not as much as a Mossberg 500 pump shotgun.

Did not like the way the factory drilled out for the pressure gauge. The hole was drilled all the way though and it left a small divot on both sides of the air tube. This is not really a functionality issue… just detracts from the aesthetics of the stock quite a bit. The divot could also be a real dirt catcher.

Just my initial thoughts on it,
DB

 
At May 23, 2008 8:19 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

DB,

Those open sights are not good for precision. Wait until you scope the rifle for accuracy to show.

Please keep us informed.

B.B.

 
At May 23, 2008 10:07 AM, Anonymous DB said...

BB,
Yes I have a very nice 1.5-6x44 Leapers scope in the box waiting. Just having some fun with the open sights and I think I'll do all the trigger & power mod before mounting the scope.

The sight picture with the Disco iron sights seems very nice to me. But yes I know a scope really helps.

I can not shoot ten shot 10-yard groups within a 1/2" circle with my scoped 1377. Considering it is a $50 gun I'm very happy with it.


And I've been using a zero power red dot on my shotgun for over 15-years. Still using my original Tasco Red Dot. Got a lot of funny looks when I used it for skeet. But it really works well once you get used the concept and trust it.

Fun stuff,
DB

 
At May 29, 2008 6:56 PM, Anonymous wayne said...

Hi folks,

I have had two discoveries in .22 cal. since late march...I love them.. I am setting up "Ashland Air Rifle Range and Rentals" in Southern Oregon..so I have been testing what to buy for inventory..

Two things..1) no auto safety..the other night Randy and I were shooting in the pool room indoor range.. Randy's daughter came in and was talking.. she left and moments later..Randy put a pellet in the ceiling, where his daughter was just standing.. it was too easy to pull the trigger as he was closing the breech. (un-knowingly using the trigger for leverage).. be careful, this is for seasoned and aware airgunners only.
2) the barrel is flimsy.. one can wiggle it back and forth.. I superglued mine to the air tank... take off the fill cap first and use just enough to lock to air tank..it really needs two barrel clamps instead of one. After wards it has been really accurate..
I don't know what all the stuff about the trigger is about..it is great for me very light (about 2 lbs or so)very little creep and crisp..very good compared to the 20 or so other air rifles I have tried.

Forget the pump guys, you don't want to put "wet" air in the gun. If you go with the scuba tanks they fill them with clean dry air for $5.00.. they can fill them up to 3,500lbs if they do it slowly from a warm room...then you get about 2,000 shots before it gets down to 1,900lbs..I got two tanks for $150 each at the local scuba store...just don't overfill..it is nice when the tank gets down to 2,300, then you can just open and let the tank and gun equalize, without worry about overfilling.

Hope this helps..
Wayne

 
At May 30, 2008 8:16 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Wayne,

I have to caution others to not superglue the barrel to the reservoir.

The reservoir moves as air is exhausted and if the barrel is attached, it will walk as the pressure changes.

Also, the pump dries the air before it goes into the gun. As long as you bleed it with the bleed screw to purge the pump base, the gun should remain dry inside.

B.B.

 
At May 30, 2008 12:35 PM, Anonymous wayne said...

Thanks BB;

Had not thought of the reservoir moving, but mine is way more accurate than before, maybe there is enough flex in the glue to add strength, but still, flex with the reservoir...the real fix is an extra barrel band, don't you think. Can we get them from Pyramyd or crossman?

Any way is way easier with the scuba tanks, 10 seconds to hook up, fill, bleed fill tube, and disconnect and your shooting.

thanks,

Wayne

 
At May 30, 2008 1:25 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Wayne,

If it's more accurate then no harm done. That was my only concern.

The barrel band was a topic of discussion as we developed the rifle. I didn't want one at all - for a free-floated barrel. But the band won out in the end.

B.B.

 
At May 30, 2008 4:10 PM, Anonymous wayne said...

BB..

Now I'm getting it.."a free-floated barrel"...maybe on the next one it could be stronger so I can't wiggle it back and forth with one finger...it "floats" for sure. I know more money, weight, etc..
Well at least I had not gotten around to gluing the other discovery yet..I will watch for I guess a little pulling down of the barrel as the pressure in the tank goes down...come to think of it..I do notice pellets shooting lower as the pressure goes below 1,500 but I thought it was because of low pressure not the tank pulling the barrel down... I wonder if I can test the other gun against the glued gun...I will let you know..

Thanks again
Wayne

 
At June 29, 2008 2:03 AM, Anonymous NiTr0_FiSh said...

Hi BB,
I understand the Benjamin Discovery is based on the 2260. Are any of the parts interchange (or close) between the Benjamin Discovery and the 22xx series? The Discovery air tube is the part that interests me the most. Thank you.

 
At June 29, 2008 7:53 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

NiTr0_FiSh,

When we created the Discovery, the air tube had to be a new design because Crosman makes no other PCP. CO2 tanks do not have to be rated to the same pressure level. So that part is unique.

We used the steel breech with the long scope rail that you can buy from the Custom Shop. And the actions and barrels are identical.

B.B.

 
At June 29, 2008 11:32 PM, Anonymous NiTr0_FiSh said...

OK BB,
That makes sense to use the modular approach & design those new parts that were required. I was considering attempting to swap a Discovery air tube onto my repeater breach, bulk fill 2250B - but that does not sound like it will fit.
Thanks again.

 
At July 23, 2008 10:27 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Makun,

If your electric compressor will output 2,000 psi air, then, yes, it will work. Most compressors top out around 135-175 psi. There is a booster you can buy, but I think they cost $800-1,000.

There is little to no maintenance on a PCP. You don't clean the barrel (just like the springer) and there isn't anything to lubricate. Just follow the owner's manual and the gun is relatively carefree.

The one maintenance tip I can give is to always leave the gun filled with air. A full charge is fine for long-term storage.

B.B.

 
At August 08, 2008 11:10 AM, Blogger Austin Gannon said...

B.B.,

I don't currently own a discovery yet, but have given some thought to getting one. I have a hammerli 850 right now, so I don't know if I'm willing to go back to a single shot after having a repeater for so long. I see that you were mentioning that crossmans next pcp might have a shrouded barrel. I was wondering if you would have any information if it will be a repeater or not, seeing by the looks of things you have quite a bit of influence over these types of things. Also wondering if you would have any idea when this next pcp will be put into production and available to the public? ( just weighing out my options for my next gun) any information would be appreciated.

Austin

 
At August 08, 2008 12:55 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Austin,

I believe the next Benjamin PCP will be a repeater, too. It should be announced at the SHOT Show in January, 2009 and available by May or June, if everything stays on track.

B.B.

 
At September 02, 2008 9:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Greetings b b
I have a very random question, but it's pertaining about the benjy disco. and that is, when i will take this gun on an airplane, will the air-gonomics of the gas onboard the cargo airplane affect the gun and the resivor? Or would it be fine and nothing would happen to the gun?
And also, is the PCP's better than the multi pump pneumatics? specifically about the pumping, would a multi pump be preferable or a pcp's for LONG HUNTING, well, not really hunting big size huskies, but like coons and medium size rascalz. Thanks!
Oh Yeah! almost 4got, but is it really true that the benjy disco might come in a repeater???if so, please keep me informed, like the pricing, if it would be 6 shot rep., revolver or side lever action or etc., and other tech specs. Thanks, again!

 
At September 03, 2008 8:58 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Don't worry about what the air in the gun does in an airplane because the airlines won't permit you to carry the gun filled.

There will not be a repeating Discovery, but Crosman is working on a different PCP design that I think will be a repeater.

PCP{s are more powerful than all multi-pumps and more accurate than most. So I guess PCPs are "better."

B.B.

 
At September 06, 2008 4:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I really appreciate all your replaies b.b.! thanks so much. but i have 1 more question. how loud is this gun, or how loud would you rate it with? ok, thanks.

 
At September 07, 2008 8:20 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

The Discovery is about as loud as a loud hand clap. Maybe a bit louder.

It's quieter when using CO2.

B.B.

 
At September 07, 2008 9:26 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

oh ok. well, thank you for the quick reply.

 
At September 15, 2008 8:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

on the benjamin discovery can u use a regular air compressor(oneyou would find at your house) to fill it?Could you do it with a compressor that has a max of 160 psi?

 
At September 16, 2008 9:57 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

A home compressor is too low for the Benjamin Discovery, which needs 2,000 psi air to function. There is a device that boosts the pressure of a home compressor, but it costs about a thousand dollars.

B.B.

 
At September 17, 2008 8:38 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

is it possible to fill up the gun part way with a home compressor,than do the rest with the pump?

 
At September 18, 2008 6:00 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

While it is possible, it isn't realistic. The hand pump will only need a few easy strokes to exceed what a home compressor can do. It would take longer making the connections than to just use the hand pump all the way.

B.B.

 
At October 21, 2008 7:17 PM, Anonymous DB said...

BB,
Finally gave up on making my Discovery shoot straight. Worked at if for a few months and hundreds of shots. Took your advice and sent it back to Crosman. They promptly replaced it. New gun is a mixed bag.

Stock looks very bad – bad piece of wood. The one returned had a beautiful stock very nice wood. Not a good finish... just good wood. Stock had about a ¼ of play out of the box. Simple fix with a screw driver and it is now nice and tight. But no amount of refinishing will make this piece of wood look nice.

Steel had a few scratches – but no rust. Returned gun had no scratches.

Manometer is mounted upside down – faces the wrong direction. Not a big deal at all it is just as easy to read upside down and the readings match the readings on the pump. So it seems to be working OK.

Trigger feels exactly the same… has some creep.

That was the bad. Good is this one shoots straight. Have only used CP hollow points so far and only out to 20 yards with iron sights; but it does seem to shoot OK.

Will be mounting a scope this weekend and reach out to 30 yards or so and see what she does with some JSB pellets.

DB

 
At October 27, 2008 12:27 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.,

Could you share what the velocity is for CO2 with the Discovery (0.177 & 22)?

Also is CO2 significantly quieter?

Thanks,
Herb

 
At October 27, 2008 2:07 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Herb,

I haven't tested it, but the Discovery is based on a 2260 rifle, so I expect the .22 to go 600 f.p.s. and the .177 to be in the high 600s/low 700s.

It will not be quieter than a quiet springer, but about as loud as a GOOD magnum like an R1. Hope that helps.

B.B.

 
At November 15, 2008 11:17 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.,

Seems you were right on numbers.

Paul Capello reported Chrony numbers

http://www.pyramydair.com/video/?video=agr-episode-5.flv


14.3 grain Crosman Premier
602fps CO2 / 803fps air

18.2 grain Crow Magnum
553fps CO2 / 803fps air

He didn't report sound levels and from video clip it's hard to tell. But it doesn't sound tremendously quieter with CO2 trying to judge from relative noise of bolt action.

Herb

 
At December 01, 2008 9:34 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If I wanted to shoot the discovery in cold weather at a lower velocity (for noise reasons) could I fill it with air at a lower pressure; around what it would be with CO2?

 
At December 01, 2008 10:04 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

CO2 is pressurized to 853 psi at 70 degrees F.

B.B.

 
At December 01, 2008 10:23 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So if I pressurized the gun to around 900 psi with air I would get similar result as if I had used CO2 ( noise volume and velociy wise)?

 
At December 01, 2008 10:33 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Yes, it would be similar. The velocity would be a touch higher because air flows faster, but nothing drastic. And I would guess the noise would be reduced from CO2 just a bit.

However, you would only get a handful of shots -- all at decreasing velocity, because you are off the power curve of the valve.

However, give it a try and see what happens.

B.B.

 
At December 24, 2008 2:49 PM, Blogger ajvenom said...

Not sure if this was posted yet, but incase anyone needs this:

BENJAMIN SHERIDAN PARTS LIST & DIAGRAM:

http://www.crosman.com/pdf/manuals/BP1K77xx%20&%20BP9M22xx%20EVP.pdf

 
At February 05, 2009 4:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

How does the loudness of this gun compare to a .22 short shot out of a rifle?

 
At February 05, 2009 5:05 PM, Anonymous .22 multi-shot said...

Anonymous (loudness),

I don't have a Discovery, but I have a pistol (14.6" barrel) that is powered by the same plant as the Discovery. One friend said it sounded about the same as a .22 short. Another friend said it wasn't as loud. Either way, since the Discovery has a longer 24.25" barrel, I would say it would not be as loud as a .22 short.

.22 multi-shot

 
At May 01, 2009 8:03 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Could you fill the benjamin with a different pump. I have been looking to buy the benjamin by itself (without the pump)because i think the pump is too expensive. Please list any pumps that could fill the benjamin you know and any adapters it might need. Thank you.

 
At May 01, 2009 8:19 AM, Blogger kevin said...

Anonymous with the Benjamin pump question,

The short answer to your question is, Yes, you can fill the Benjamin Discovery with any high pressure pump (rated to at least 2000 psi). But you can't beat the package deal price that includes the pump and gun vs. buying them separately. Keep in mind that the pump that comes in the package is a re-badged air force pump. Top notch pump!

The exception to this is if you find a used high pressure pump at a very good price. The problem with buying a used pump at a very good price is that you don't know if the pump has been abused. You can ruin a high pressure pump very quickly by wiping the grease off (idiots trying to clean up their pumps), not bleeding it correctly, overheating during pumping, etc.

B.B. has done several articles on using a pump and also has a video on the pyramyd air web site showing the slow deliberate strokes, pausing on the up and down strokes and letting the pump cool during use. Use the search feature on the right to find this information.

 
At May 13, 2009 10:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

WHEN are we going to see a definitive test of the .22 discovery on CO2!

 
At May 14, 2009 7:06 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

I am extremely busy for the next several months, but if you will keep reminding me I will test the Discovery on CO2 for you.

You know, others have already tested it and reported on it many times on the Crosman Forum and elsewhere. Are you aware of that?

http://www.network54.com/Forum/581291/

You may have to ask them, because almost everyone runs the Discovery on air, but they have tested it on CO2, as well.

B.B.

 
At July 07, 2009 7:57 PM, Blogger Bristolview said...

Does anyone know of a decent rifle case which can hold a scoped Discovery and Pump? Sure would be nice to have them nicely packaged like that. Cheers all.

 
At July 08, 2009 7:42 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bristolview,

I don't have a rifle case to recommend, but I'd be interested in hearing if you find one. I think it might be hard to find a case that will accommodate the foot of the pump.

Edith (Mrs. B.B.)

 
At July 08, 2009 9:51 AM, Blogger kevin said...

Bristolview,

One option is to purchase a two gun hard sided case (some manufacturers call this a scoped gun case). The scoped Discovery and pump will fit in the case but you will have to remove the foot of the base on the pump in order to close the case.

kevin

 
At July 11, 2009 11:47 PM, Blogger Bristolview said...

While I continue to look for a case to tweak for the pump, a compromise would be to carry an extra tank. Crosman makes a nice one with a large capacity (6-8 refills), but it's really really large. A smaller, more portable version that can be carried in my case for an afternoon of plinking would be nice, perhaps 2-3 refills, that's still quite a bit of shooting. Anyone know of a portable tank like that? I know there are plenty of CO2 tanks for paintball guns, but they generally cannot handle the higher PSI of a PSP rifle.

 
At July 12, 2009 7:20 PM, Blogger Bristolview said...

Kevin,

Thanks for the idea. I found a 2 rifle case, but I can keep the base on the pump. I took a drill and made a slit for the base to go though the outside of the case. Another slit allows the other side of the base to go a little way into the rifle area. This lets the pump stay completely intact, even the hose can stay on. It's a Plano 2 rifle case.

 
At July 12, 2009 7:29 PM, Blogger kevin said...

Bristolview,

I'm glad that worked out for you.

kevin

 
At July 26, 2009 11:54 AM, Anonymous JD said...

Dear B.B.

The discovery so far is a good entry lvl for pcp shooting. But sins a long time i dont have an airgun. So i whas hoping if this airgun could hold up in a field target competition.
Meaning, is this gun still accurate at 55 yards whitin an inch on a bench test at either .177 and .22 bore ?

Hope to hear from you.


Greets

JD

 
At July 26, 2009 1:07 PM, Anonymous JD said...

My Appologies,

I must have miss read this some how but i'll do a quote of part two

" Under ideal conditions, the Discovery is fully capable of half-inch groups at 50 yards. Now and again, it does better "

Anyhow still thanks for reviewing this airrifle

JD

 
At August 15, 2009 4:45 AM, Blogger szanto said...

Dear Experts on Benjamin Sheridan Discovery!

I m hungarian man, and i would like to change my Diana 350 magnum to a Discovery. Unfortunatelly in my Country the guns are weakened to 7,5 joule. A havent ever had pcp gun, and i ont know wich way has been used to decrease the Discoverys pellets velocity. But i think they make something with the regulator... What do You think, how i can set the original strong of the Gun? Wich component is likely to deteriorate bytime in Discovery? I woul appreciate if You answered me. Thank, Miki

 
At August 15, 2009 6:55 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Miki,

I'm pretty sure that the Discovery you will buy does not have a regulator in it. The power reduction will have been made by changing the parts of the valve.

It may be very difficult to make a low-powered Discovery more powerful, because Crosman (the maker) has to ensure it cannot be done easily. Otherwise, the various countries will not allow it to be imported.

Are you even able to buy a Discovery in Hungary?

B.B.

 
At August 15, 2009 3:04 PM, Blogger szanto said...

Dear BB Pelletier! Tehere is one of the companies wich sells Discovery, called Nimrod Derringer. I have to admit, that i am going to change the Discovery to a strenghter one. But i dont know about the way. Thanks for the information about the valve. Can i buy it by post from Your Country? I want to hunt rabbits. I m a hunter, i have a certain own territory. I really need a gun , that optic-friend. Your gun seems to be an excellent gun , not distroying optics, like te Diana does. I have broken down 4 ones by setting. so, finelly, You think, that i need to change the valve if I want to make it stronger? Thanks , Miki.

 
At August 15, 2009 3:06 PM, Blogger szanto said...

Dear BB! here is the home page in Hungary about the possibulity of ordering the Discovery:www.nimrodderinger.hu

 
At August 15, 2009 3:09 PM, Blogger szanto said...

dear BB! Herer is the page of Discovery in Hungary.

And, fine thanks for Your answer!!


http://www.nimrodderringer.hu/index.p?page=leg_puskak#bs

 
At August 16, 2009 9:44 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Szanto,

The Benjamin Discovery is a good hunting gun. I hope you can buy it with a hand pump, because filling it may be difficult in Hungary. You will need a scuba tank if you don't buy the hand pump.

It will also work with CO2, but that is only good in warm weather, and hunting takes place when it is cold. So you want to run on air, not CO2.

The velocity of the gun you can buy is too slow for hunting. Changing the valve is not easy. You have to know a lot about pneumatic design.

I would not buy the Discovery for hunting.

B.B.

 
At August 16, 2009 10:26 AM, Blogger szanto said...

Dear B.B. Pelletier! Thanks for the information! I hope, i can buy a new valve to this gun. And also hope, that in the shop they will explain how to change the valve to the new one. Unfortunatelly in Hungary every gun have been loww-powered to 7,5, wich isnt enough for everything apart from to use it in the garden, or in case of having high quality-gun to the competitions. In Hungary You can buy original coponetnts for the low powered guns in the same shops. Here are hardly any people how wouldnt change them after buying. When i bought my Diana, i tried it (in less stronger state), and it wasnt able to shot out the 5,5 Baracuda pellet! It was said to be 7,5 J!! I wasnt able to use it, so i had to change the components. This is a "stupid " (exc me) rule in our country. At the first part Your comment You said :it is a good hunting gun. And at the end of it You said: You wuldnt buy it for hunting. Why? Thanks for Your answer! Miki

 
At August 16, 2009 10:49 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Miki,

The Discovery is a good hunting airgun as it is sold here in the U.S. In 7,5 joules it is not a good hunting gun. That is what I meant.

You will not be able to buy a different valve for your gun, if that is what you meant. You may be able to buy a replacement valve that will then have to be altered to give you more power.

B.B.

 
At August 16, 2009 11:11 AM, Blogger szanto said...

Dear B.B.Pelletier!

Can i ordere original valve from Your Country? If it comes to buying , could i ask You to help me? And do You have pneumatic design in writing?
Thanks a lot.Miki

 

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