Benjamin Discovery – Part 1 The concept and a brief description of the rifle

by Tom Gaylord


The new Benjamin Discovery is going to introduce a lot of shooters to precharged pneumatics.

History
In October 2006, I attended an airgun writers’ conference at Crosman in New York. They called us together to show us their new products for 2007 and to ask what things we thought they should make in the future. We had a wonderful time, and I learned how open the Crosman management is to new ideas. I had been nursing the idea for a unique type of American-made precharged pneumatic (PCP) rifle and had decided that Crosman was the only company who could make it. And, after some discrete conversations at the conference, I knew they were interested in starting a line of PCPs.

Late in 2006, I made a proposal to Crosman for my ideal American PCP, and they liked my ideas, which was to build a PCP based on a CO2 model they already produced, lowering the development time and cost. I suggested the Benjamin AS392T as a starting point. Through the blog, many of you knew I was working on that project back then.

The important points I wanted to see in a new gun were these:

  • A pressure limit of 1,800 psi instead of 3,000
  • Full power and full shot count (i.e., at least 25 powerful shots and at least 710 f.p.s. in .22 caliber with Crosman Premiers).
  • A steel breech with an 11mm dovetail for scopes.
  • Gun to be packaged with a hand pump.
  • Price for the package (rifle with pump) to be affordably low.

Early in 2007, I went to New York to discuss the project and brought a mock-up PCP testbed to show them – not a gun, just some key components to convert one of their AS392Ts. So, imagine my surprise when Crosman’s Ed Schultz walked into the conference room with not one but two working prototype guns…one in .177 and the other in .22. He’d based them on the 2260, which, frankly, looked more like a PCP than the AS392T. I never got around to showing them what I’d brought.

A good start
I was shocked to see two working prototypes so early in the project, and Ed told me he was equally shocked to discover that 2000 psi worked just as well as 3,000 psi. I knew it would because Tim McMurray gets 915 f.p.s. from 1,600 psi with Beeman Kodiaks in his USFT, and Gary Barnes built me a .25-caliber rifle that got 27 foot-pounds and 10 shots on just 800 psi! Ed’s .177 prototype was getting 28 shots that were approaching 1,000 f.p.s. in .177-caliber with Crosman 7.9-grain Premiers (you KNOW Crosman isn’t going to use Raptors, and their Silver Eagle pellets were not ready at that time) and around 800 f.p.s. in .22, again with Premiers.

Dual fuel
We already had a winner and the project was just getting started. But then Schultz dropped the real bomb. Just for fun, because his new valve was so similar to a CO2 valve, he also tested the rifles on CO2! They each got over 100 shots on a single fill and both were more powerful than any other CO2 rifles in the Crosman/Benjamin Sheridan lineup! Ed used the term “dual fuel” for this capability, which I thought was a killer term for it.

I’ll flash back to the development period in the reports to come, but for now let me cut to the bottom line. During the year, they boosted the velocity of the .177 up to a solid 1,000 f.p.s. and the .22 to 900 f.p.s. The number of useful shots climbed up over 35, but how many there are depends on how far you are shooting and how accurate you want to be. When I tell you how accurate this rifle is (this week) you’ll be astonished, as I was when I saw it the first time. Think about an American dime. Now imagine Roosevelt’s head on that dime and all shots touching it at 50 yards in both calibers! For the rest of the world, imagine 11-12mm!


This photo of the rifle is with a Beech stock, but Crosman will be dressing it with a genuine walnut one!

The rifle
The Benjamin Discovery is a single-shot, bolt-action PCP that measures about 39″ long and 5.25 lbs. (for my testbed prototypes). It comes in both .177 and .22 calibers. I will report specific velocities with real pellets in another post. The rifle has a steel receiver with a 9″ scope rail. Although most shooters will scope it with a high-magnification scope, the rifle comes with good adjustable open sights so you can shoot it immediately after you fill it the first time.

I advised using an inexpensive set of adjustable open sights, but Crosman thought better and included a higher quality adjustable Williams rear notch sight. The sights are fiberoptic, of course. Crosman also built in a pressure gauge from the very beginning. On the bottom of the forearm just in front of the triggerguard, they’ve installed a custom manometer with a color-coordinated dial. Green is for good (pressure).


This is the prototype manometer. The real one is color-coded. Located in front of the triggerguard

The air/CO2 fill nipple is a steel Foster male quick-disconnect that makes the rifle incredibly easy to connect to air or CO2. Behind that fill nipple, they’ve installed a fine filter to keep foreign material out of the reservoir. Some of the top air rifles don’t even have this.


Crosman wisely used a Foster quick-disconnect fitting, and they’ve added a filter inside to prevent dirt from entering the reservoir.

The barrel is a Crosman barrel, but believe me when I tell you this thing can shoot. You won’t be disappointed downrange. I told them I thought the 2260 stock was good enough, because I wanted to keep the cost down, but Crosman wanted a fuller profile. The stock they decided on is very much a PCP style. Then, at the 11th hour, Ed Schultz found an affordable way to stock the rifle in genuine walnut, and he tells me the production stocks are knockouts! Go to the Crosman website to see them today. Walnut is lighter than the beech my rifle has, so I can’t say what that will do to the weight because I haven’t seen the profile of the walnut stock yet.

The metal is blued steel and the wood is genuine. The little bit of plastic on the gun amounts to the fill nipple protective cap, the front sight, the triggerguard and trigger.

The hand pump
Do you know how easy it is to pump to 2000 psi? I wanted Crosman to shoot an instructional DVD showing a teenage girl filling the rifle, because I’m fed up hearing about shooters who cannot fill their PCPs with a pump. Up to 2,000, it’s not too hard, but from there to 2,500 it gets harder, and above 2,500 its a real challenge for many people. We didn’t do the DVD, but there is an animated tutorial on the Crosman website that shows the same thing. I can pump the gun to 1,800 psi from the seated position using just one hand!

A hand pump that’s rated to beyond 3,000 psi, as this one is, will have no difficulty pumping to just 2,000 psi. It should last for decades! If we can just get the tinkerers to keep their hands out of the pump’s internals and the clean freaks from wiping off the lubricant on the pump shaft, this pump could last a lifetime. It’s been tested with continuous pumping for 50 straight hours, so you never have to let the thing cool down (although it never gets warm).


The Benjamin hand pump is rugged and fast – especially with the Discovery.

How many pumps strokes?
One-hundred pump strokes take you from an empty gun to full and it takes about 25 to top the gun off after every 35-shot shooting session. Remember, we’re stopping at 2,000 psi. That’s more than one shot per pump stroke, yet the .22 caliber develops about 23 foot-pounds with each shot. That’s conservative, and I’m talking Premiers. You’ll get even more with heavy pellets! Folks, THIS is what can be done when the maker knows what they’re doing and has a solid engineering base.

If you cannot abide physical exertion of any kind, Crosman will sell you a small carbon fiber air tank that relieves you from pumping entirely.

Oh – and it runs on CO2, too!
Yes, it does. One big objection to PCPs is, “Well I’m used to CO2, and I don’t want to learn a whole new technology.” Fine, then you buy the inexpensive optional CO2 adapter (sorry, but we had to stop adding things somewhere) and fill your gun from a paintball tank. Yep!, it’s just that easy.

What if I have air in the gun and I want to switch to CO2? Well, it isn’t hard to shoot it empty, but just for you, Crosman created a special tool that fits through the receiver end cap and dumps the reservoir. I told them they would need something when Joe Sixpack decides if 2,000 is good, 3,000 is better and they have to help him unlock the valve. Easier to make a simple tool than to listen to the guy whine over the phone. I believe this is the first time such a tool has been made for owners of PCPs, though every one of them needs it.

UK, you’re not going to miss out!
While this is an American innovation, Crosman told me they intend to share it with the world. So, those of you in the UK can look forward to a similar PCP headed your way. Naturally, it’ll conform to your legal limit.

I watched all the airgun forums debate last week about what the Benjamin Discovery would probably be, and many people thought it would probably be a rebranded Chinese PCP. Well – SURPRISE! This an American-made PCP with more innovations and value than you can shake a stick at. And, the package (rifle with pump) is available starting today directly from Crosman for UNDER $400! They won’t be shipping for couple of weeks, though. If you can wait about a month, Pyramyd Air will have them!

This is the enormous surprise I promised you so long ago. I hope you like it.

136 thoughts on “Benjamin Discovery – Part 1 The concept and a brief description of the rifle

  1. BB,

    I MIGHT wait for your further reviews on this gun but it just went to the very top of my ‘next gun’ list.

    I will wait for PA to get them. They deserve the business.

    Al Pellet


  2. I’d pretty much written off PCP for the time being simply because of the sizable upfront investment (gun, tanks, pump, etc), but — accuracy tests pending — sure could make me take a second look.

    Sounds like Crosman deserves some birthday cake for so aggressively going after this one. Great to see a US company innovating…


  3. Wow. I’ve been looking at PCP’s, but they’ve been out of my price range, but on the top of my sure wish I could list. Looks like it’s time to move it to my will get soonist list. However, like Al Pellet I’ll wait for PA.


  4. Ok, I’ve only read half but I’m already dumping part of my wishlist to make room (and that’s saying something considering, as you might guess, that I’ve only talked about multi-pumps). Questions though: I know you are testing it soon, but the velocities, are they actual or “Industry Standard” numbers? I’ll be watching the blog closely this week. I’m VERY interested. JP



  5. Ok, I’m done reading. IF it is all that you say it will be, or reasonably close, then I will put my congratulations to Crosman for making a quality rifle that the “people” designed, and I WILL get one because it sounds exactly what I am looking for (I liked the part of very little plastic). I’ll be waiting for each report on it. JP


  6. Cost has been the factor preventing me from going PCP. If it can be kept low enough in the UK I’ll certainly buy one. It even looks like a rifle (which many PCP’s don’t) which is even better! Very nice surprise Pelletier!


  7. JP,

    I tested Crosman .22 Premiers at an average of 856 f.p.s. That makes the lighter ones go 900 for sure. I tested the .177 Premier lites to 975 f.p.s. That makes the light ones top 1,000 f.p.s.

    Rob Bob,

    From Crosman the price will be $399 for the package (pump and gun). When Pyramyd gets it, the price may go down.

    B.B.



  8. BB,

    thanks, this thing seems cool!

    You know the only reason that all these guns are 3000 is because that was the max pressure available for a while. People thought it must be the best then.

    The thing that will draw people in is that its the least expensive pcp (with the bam 50 / 51) and it comes with the pump. People hate buying so many things at a time to get it going, well i do anyway!

    -sumo




  9. B.B…..
    This sounds fantastic.
    How will it be for noise??
    Is the trigger going to be decent, or is it going to be the only sore spot??

    2t


  10. Fantastic! I’ve been wanting a PCP but I know very little about them and I didn’t want to spend all that money just to find out that I didn’t like one. I wanted a Talon SS because of its ability to accept CO2, but the Discovery sounds like the perfect starter PCP rifle to me. I still want a Talon but this rifle sounds excellent to learn on, yet still powerful to be practical. I just wish it had a shroud so that the neighbors couldn’t hear it.

    mech


  11. Now my interest is tweaked. If this thing will work in the winter, I might have to put up my Sheridan .20 and Benny .22 pumpers.
    I hunt rabbits in the winter and dearly love taking them on the run. Both my guns are equipped with peep sights.
    A larger, sturdy bolt handle and a simple round ball magazine would be great.



  12. I recently emailed PA on what I would need if I purchased a PCP rifle. They sent me a long list of things like fill adapters, pumps, scuba clamp and tank, if I don’t want a pump, and it was ridiculous. You could easily spend as much money on the stuff to make your rifle shoot as you did on your rifle.

    I like the idea of being able to use both CO2 and air with out having to buy a separate $100 adapter. Also, the use of CO2 in a PCP usually causes a severe drop in power that will drastically effect practical range and POI if you start with PCP and switch to CO2 in the field. The ability for the Discovery to offer a CO2 velocity closer to that of regular air is a great feature for those people who run out of shots in the woods and don’t want to start pumping. Paintball CO2 bottles are readily available and many paintball stores offer carry pouches for them that strap to you leg like a thigh holster. You can take one in the woods with you and quickly refill your rifle if you run low on pressure.

    I’m so excited.

    mech





  13. BB, I,m in. Can’t wait to order mine. Great job by you and by Crosman. You know that the other major manufactures will be following this developement closly. BB, any chance of A shroud being added or offered? There are probably thousands of us small town, city shooters that makes A shroud A must have.

    BobC NJ




  14. A dime at 50 yards? That’s incredible accuracy. I cannot wait to save up my money to get one of these in .22. That $400 includes the pump?

    AlinCT


  15. In short PCP has more power and is not as temperature sensitive as CO2, but CO2 offers more shots and is more practical for casual shooting.

    mech


  16. Rookie,

    Precharged air has two main advantages over CO2. First, it delivers significantly more velocity, which means more power. That’s because the atoms in air flow faster through a valve than the much larger molecules of CO2 gas.

    Second, CO2 changes pressure as the temperature changes. CO2 guns don’t work very well below 50 degrees F, and they don’t work at all at zero. A PCP, on the other hand, continues to work well.

    B.B.



  17. I should also add that CO2 is cheaper up front but PCP is cheaper in the long run. You can get CO2 powerlets very cheaply, and Bulk fill tanks for about $20 online or at your local Walmart. It usually costs about $3-$5 per CO2 fill, from your local sporting goods or paintball store, depending on the size of your bulk fill tank.

    PCP’s run on compressed air. You have to buy an expensive (when compared to CO2) pump and maybe a fill adapter, but that’s it. You can then fill the rifle’s air tank by hand for free. The pump eventually pays for its self. If you don’t like to pump by hand, then you can buy another adapter and a scuba tank that is more expensive. However, it is usually cheaper (the cost of the fill may be more but the cost per volume is less)to fill a compressed air tank than a CO2. There is also a very expensive electric pump for PCP rifles that alleviates the hassle of having to get a scuba tank filled.

    Basically, if you are a casual shooter them CO2 is for you. If you want PCP power for occasional hunting then go with the hand pump. If you are a “hardcore” shooter then the very expensive PCP options will eventually pay for them selves.

    mech


  18. When can we expect this gun in Europe? Will all European guns have the UK/Germany power limit or will there be a full power version avaible for us?



  19. Well, I’m excited! What a great development! The discovery is going to the top of my list. I’m eager to hear further reports. Thanks for representing the rest of us to the industry B.B.!

    -Josh


  20. I agree with Bob C – the shroud is a must. That is why I have been looking at the S410. But when/if I make that jump I will still need a pump. So maybe I need to look at this as a $400 pump that happens to come with a very nice gun….
    Great surprise BB. Thank You.
    MCA


  21. B.B.

    With a temperature of -11 and wind chill in Minnesota, it’s always nice to wake up to the PA blog. But this is really something. I’m blown away. I thought the gas spring was a good idea but not quite as huge as the universe. This is–at least for the PCP universe. Like others, I had pretty much written off PCPs because of their price–particularly that pump. Much as I like the Talon series, I just couldn’t essay spending another $200 for a pump after the $500 for the rifle. The Discovery is now at the top of my list, and I will get it as soon as it becomes available from PA. I also want to second the request for a shroud, extender, or other silencing device. That will be worth a lot to replace the gigantic cardboard silencer that I would have to make otherwise. Also, as long as Crosman is so receptive, a repeating version would be nice too. Thanks for your great work.

    Matt61



  22. B.B.

    I wonder if I could trouble you for a little more help with the Daisy 747. It had a few teething problems. It took me about 100 shots to sight in. I guess I was having trouble with the calibration of the sights, the one-handed match shooting position, and the unfamiliar weight of the pistol.

    But I can see why everyone raves about this gun. From a sitting position at 20 feet with my back against a door and elbows on the knees, I put 10 shots through a modest hole minus 2 flyers. My scoped IZH 61 can hardly do better in that position.

    One problem remains, though: the adjustment of the pump lever. As I understand the instructions, when the pump lever is closed until slight resistance, it should be about 1 and 1/8 to 1 and 1/2 inches from the barrel. Mine is nowhere near that; resistance starts almost immediately with the lever way past 90 degrees from the barrel.

    I turned the toothed adjustment wheels counterclockwise to reduce pressure about 10 times gouging the metal in the process because I couldn’t find a screwdriver that fit exactly. (I think the design could use some improvement). There was no discernible change in pressure that I could see. Finally, the wheels became so rounded and gouged at one point that I didn’t think I could move the wheels at all. I decided to let the dog lie at that point, especially since the pistol was shooting so well although the pump lever still makes about a 60 or 70 degree angle to the barrel at rest and doesn’t seem anywhere near what the instructions specify. I suppose that I do feel a slight decrease in pumping pressure from the before. What else should I do?

    To all, I would really recommend this gun. Shooting it is like pointing with the finger of God.

    Matt61


  23. BB, it looks like Crosman just came up with an American answer to the magnum springers – less than 1 stroke per shot, good power and accuracy, and (presumably) much easier to shoot than an RWS350, Hunter Extreme, and so on.

    On a side note, I finally built a duct-seal pellet trap. As a test I let loose with a CPL out of a Walther Force 1000 (AR1000) at about an inch away – close to a real 1000fps – and it only penetrated about 1/2″. I’ll be using it for indoor velocity testing… much better than the hunk of 4×4 that I had been using (and eventually shot through). Thanks for the suggestion.


  24. I don’t even need one, but may buy it anyway if its as good as it sounds. The main problem with it is that it does sound too good to be true. The nice touch of verisimilitude is the CO2 attachment: just what I would have expected from Crossman. Seems like unnecessary expense for the two days a year CO2 actually works optimally, but probably doesn’t hurt anything.

    Will you be testing a production rifle or a prototype? Will they make a target rifle based on same components?


  25. Thank you BB for the report and THANK YOU Crosman for making this rifle and for not compromising its features (not listening to BB saying “thats good enough”, LOL). Looking forward to the follow up reports!

    This gun definitely tops my wish list especially since I need a hand pump for another gun too. And another thank you to Crosman for making the pump go over 3000PSI even though this gun doesn’t need it! I just hope the Discovery lives up to the first reports!

    Wish List
    - The gun and pump will be sold seperately too
    - Pistol versions (like a 2240 with 14.6″ barrel and maybe a .177 with Lothar Walther barrel)
    - Models with a repeating breech with breech available seperately for upgrade (one that loads a pellet when bolt is cocked). If a repeating breech were available, I would sell my 850 AirMagnum so I could buy this sooner!
    - Parts available seperately just like other Crosman guns

    Thanks!
    .22 multi-shot




  26. WOW – Definitely a major surprise Mr. Gaylord. Thank you for this write-up – I don’t own any PCPs, but this one really has my attention!


  27. 22 MULTI: Figure you know this ,but if not,Bryan& associates makes a cool 25 shot repeater breech for Cros. xx,s. Not shure about transfer port, or if it would even fit Disc. (you might check into it). Im SHURE aftermarket for this gun will be HUGE!!! I believe everything on your wishlist is just a matter of (short) time!! This is GREAT NEWS!!! I just CANT believe it!! Your friend in S.C. Tim!


  28. 22MULTISHOT, Forgot to ask you, are you shure about Disc. hand pump going to 3000 psi.? (dont want to bug BB.) (yet!) Lol! If so this is real icing on the cake! Was getting Tallon SS (co2) next,Now, Disc. first then Tallon SS Air!! Thanks Tim.





  29. Anonomys RE Daisy 747.

    The resistance on the pump lever should be very slight and only towards the closing of the pump handle. There is some resistance during the initial stage when the handle is open fully. Contact Daisy’s customer service and explain the problem to them. They may have you send it back for service.




  30. Dragonslayer,

    Yes, there is a repeater breech for the 22xx, but it isn’t just a simple slide the bolt back, slide it forward and your ready to go type of breech (like the 850 AirMagnum). That is what I would want for a gun like the Discovery.

    You mentioned the other day about using the Discovery tube for other guns. You could cut it off, but you have to thread it, etc. for your fittings. The tube is hardened alloy so it will be hard to work with. You also have to be careful you don’t heat it during cutting, etc., and compromise the hardness.

    .22 multi-shot


  31. Vince, I too built a duct seal trap– just yesterday actually. I bought the last two boxes (10X1lb bricks in each box, $1.97/lb) at Home Depot. On the way home I coincidentally drove past a church that was throwing out a large dresser– I grabbed an empty drawer and found that it fit PERFECTLY 18 of the bricks. As my trap is outside I wanted to minimize the dust and leaves that got stuck in it so I just left the bricks wrapped. So far, works great! Anybody else out there leaving the bricks wrapped?


  32. 747,

    I agree that your gun should be returned to Daisy AS LONG AS YOU ARE SURE THAT YOU ADJUSTED IT CORRECTLY. THERE IS NO CLOCKWISE OR COUNTER-CLOCKWISE. THERE IS ONLY UP AND DOWN OF THE ADJUSTMENT CASTLE NUT.

    It sounds to me like you have gone too far in the wrong direction.

    B.B.


  33. BB,

    i just got my JSB predator ammo.

    I got them for my .22 rapid mk2 but they don’t fit in theoben mags and i wont bother hand loading them. They do however fit in the airwolfs, but you have to turn it and twist it to get it in place to move to the next spot (thats the best i can explain LOL). I shot a ten shot group at 50 yards in the snow (it finally came), the results are conclusive (good or bad)! If you don’t count the first shot, this thing is set for hunting.

    With the first, its a 1.6 inch group (warm up shot LOL). Not included, a just over an inch group. I expected 4 inch groups so thats good. This is not a caliper measured group but its on a target with one inch squares so its a good guess. This was the first try at 50 yards, I’m psyched! I cant hunt at that range with 1.5 inch groups, i should just use the 1500 airarms pellets i got for the accuracy. From a say 1.2 inch group at 50 i would conclude that these are good to 40 yards, more than the 35 yards i asked for.

    They turned out well, just in a different gun, but thats OK. One thing i noticed is that it punched perfectly clean holes in the paper.

    The pellets appear to be as well made as the normal jsb exacts ++!

    -sumo


  34. BB., Ive been thinking all day & just cant come up w/ right words to express myself! Guess I will keep it simple,Thank you soooooo much for your hard work w/ Crosman to bring us such a ground breaking gun/combo!!!!! This is HUGE!! Thanks from all of us out here!! Off subject, I took day off to follow this today & going thru some old blogs I came across one where you asked for readers to post fps for RWS 460. Today I shot 5 shots each, (after 25 shot warm up)as follows: Cros. prem.7.9,1077-1089. Kodiak Match:884-893. Rapters,Yuck!:1241-1267. & since they didnt have them when you tested,Cros. Silver Eagles:1405-1433!!! Take that nay sayers! (myself inc.)FAR surpasses 1350 advertised ON BOX! We have had enough of the velocity wars! P.S. Kodiaks are near ideal speed & VERY acurate in MY 460! Now Im going to clean my “leaded” brl.! Hope this helps. Thanks again BB. youre the BEST! Tim.




  35. BB – This is majorly off-topic, but I have no one else to ask. I modified my Webley Typhoon by ditching the spring in the sliding grip assembly and gluing it so it couldn’t slide. Next day I shoot it and pellets barely travel 20 feet. I examined it, and noticed a small, irregularly shaped hole below the transfer port, along with a good amount of wear. Is it possible that without the “recoilless” feature the chamber couldn’t handle the pressure and it was compromised? Perhaps the damage is unrelated to the modification. Either way, have you ever seen this happen, and is it repairable? P.S. Thank you for expressing shooter’s desires to Crosman.


  36. Great info! thanks Tom and BB. Like others posts, i’ll have to add the Discovery to my “to get list” LOL.

    Off topic to some extent- I am new to air guns for the most part. I have both a RWS 34 and a 350mag. I was going to lube the mainspring on the 350 but do not visibly see it. On the 34 i had no problem dropping a few drops as the spring is visible.

    any info???

    thanks.


  37. B.B.

    By counterclockwise, I meant the direction I was turning the screwdriver. I guess this corresponds to turning the adjustment castle nut upwards. Too bad since the gun is shooting well, but the lever adjustment bears no relation to what is described in the manual, so I guess I’ll send it back. Thanks.

    Matt61


  38. Hi BB,
    We got about 6 inches of snow this morning and it was perfect for roling snowballs. I rolled a giant one (like 3 feet tall)and placed it behind my targets as a backstop. It should work till spring!
    I tryed some H&N Baracudas in my 392 yesterday. I think i found the best pellet. My gun has never shot this good. I wiped out the barel a few times first(I had really overoiled the valve a long time ago, and it was still making it way to the barrel.) I didnt have much light but i mannaged to drop 2 pellets ontop of eachother in the 10 ring at 25 yards. Oh yeah thats with peep sights.
    I also took a shot at some cans. it ripped a huge hole in the front and cut a 1/2 by 1/2 inch square on its way out. I think i found my hunting pellet!

    I cant wait to hear more about the Crosman pcp. Thanks

    Nate in Mass



  39. SUMO: When I read others write they will have to save up to buy a $150 springer or a Ben. Sher., I feel so sorry for them. Especially when I buy guns like those pretty regular,& dont think about it! Make no mistake, My RWS 54& 460 w/ scope,mounts,&accesories were MAJOR purchases for me & set me back financially!! When I found out today you have a Daystate Airwolf, WOW!! Now I know how those others feel!!!(wish P.A. would pick up Daystate!!) If they do I promise Ill SAVE $ and get one! In meantime hope you wont tease me when I start braging about my new 22 Discovery!! LOL!! If you insist on “teasing” me I will be left w/ no choice but to team up w/ the likes of 22Multishot & come gunnin for you!LOL!! Your friend in S.C. Tim. P.S. No long range shooting today,WAY too windy! (will keep you posted) Tim.





  40. drag. Slay.

    Go for it! Bragging is fun. LOL I bet it will be something to brag about. Brag about how you got near performance for not so near the price (if its good). im the fool to spend the money, not YOU!

    -sumo


  41. 747,

    Are you are adjusting WITHOT cocking the gun?

    I think that you said you feel resistance as soon as you start to close the pump arm ???

    Pretty sure that you have to do the adjustment without cocking it, so that you’re not pressurizing it??


  42. Hi BB,

    When I heard about this new crosman gun yesterday I just KNEW that you had something to do with it.

    I’ve got to tell you I think this is HUGE.

    Should have known that you’d be prepared with a write-up today, thank you very much!

    I can’t wait to read your reports about this gun.

    The pump sounds a lot like the AirForce pump.

    Marc


  43. BB, another question. Is this a solid steel barrel and body/reciever? You also mentioned wanting a steel scope rail. Is it part of it? Although I don’t plan to do such a thing, how would this rifle do if unintentionally immersed in water? Not for firing after immersion or heavy rain, but rather, how would it fare even if you gave it a good cleaning? I’m thinking of what you might face while hunting. Finally, did I read correct when they said dime size groups at 50 YARDS in .22?


  44. SUMO:(if its good?) Im shure it is going to be GREAT! A truly first class entry level pcp for the average working guy! This stands to really bring ALOT of people into our hobby/sport! Against an Air Wolf, apples & oranges my friend! Daystate is cutting edge! Like my dad said about get what you paid for, TRUE! In this case, (Disc.) I think your getting MUCH MORE!! I noticed you are here today seemingly interested? Could it be that we may soon hear from SUMO about 60+ yrd. groups from his Disc.???LOL!! You gotta admit, based on BB. & Chapmans reviews, this gun has a heck of alot going for it! Im sure myself & the likes of 22 MULTISHOT can turn it into A “baby wolf!”!! Fool to spend the money,NOT, If I could afford it I would be telling you about my D.A.W.! Again when P.A. picks up Daystate Ill start saving!! Good shooting my friend! Tim.


  45. jp,

    accuracy is in the barrel, pellet, and consistency. NOT THE CALIBER!!!!!

    Drag. Slay.

    Its kinda a waist of money for me BECAUSE OF THE CHARGING STUFF! IF I COULD GET JUST THE GUN AND PAY $100 LESS THAT WOULD SUIT ME.

    what i like in the discovery is the light weight, but i may opt for a falcon! LOL

    -sumo


  46. SUMO: 22Multishot (I think, posted earlyer that Cros. will sell gun w/out pump for $245 ??)Thats $155 less for gun only, interested now?LOL!! Falcon, THERE YOU GO AGAIN!! Are you hearing this Pyramid!!LOL! (Those light hunters are COOL!!) Sumo, if you get a Falcon PLEASE keep it to yourself,Do you want to kill an “old” man already stressed out to the limit?? I think NOT!! Must go to my shop now& mix up some Raptors,Silver Eagles, Ballistol,&bore paste to make somthin akin to NITRO for my heart!! Tim.!


  47. tim slayer,

    I SURE AM!!! but ill wait for a few customer review. If i were nice i would take the front line and buy it rt off the bat. LOL

    -sumo


  48. Great work BB!

    This looks like it has great potential. I was going to whine about PA not having the Izh 46M in stock, but now it might have to wait.

    /Shooter


  49. This really goes to show you just how great of a platform the Crosman 2240 series really is.

    I looked at this earlier and thought “Wow, a PCP benjamin…” now I see that it’s not that at all.




  50. Hey don in Indiana, that is a heck of a good thought. Since the directions said that you look for resistance as you close the pump arm, I assumed that you open the pump arm the whole way first. However, there has to be resistance the whole way to pressurize the gun, so that doesn’t make sense.

    Your procedure would be to open the handle part way from the closed position to at least greater than 1 and 1/2 inches and then close it from that position and feel for resistance. It’s not the most intuitive way to do things, but it makes more sense than my method. I’ll give it a try. Thanks.

    Matt61


  51. Dear Santa: Since Ive been REAL good this year& I see you have made my dreams come true w/ your new Discovery,, I was wondering if you could make a 22 xx in pcp.?? (PISTOL)? I promise to be a good boy for the rest of this year& buy no more “CLUNKERS”!! I can even use the pump from my Disc. so Im not asking for a pump or scuba tank!! I was just thinking about something along the lines of the Elves curent line of production like,say 2240? I know its early in the year, but I PROMISE to be a good boy!! Ok, I know I slipped last year&did not buy from you,(P.A.) but Ill be good this year!! Remember when you got me that Cros. 760 40 yrs. ago? Well I still remember it today!! Thanks in advance Santa,AKA BB.!(Cros.) Little Timmy from S.C.


  52. Not a Benjamin,

    I know the Discovery is based on the 2260, but the modified walnut stock, the sights, the standard steel breech and the accuracy point to higher quality. Doesn’t that qualify it as a Benjamin?



  53. Started today reading about the Discovery. Spent the day thinking about buying it, but then I didn’t remember aqnything being said about a shrouded barrel, let us city type folks know, if that option is in the “works” please BB. Thanks much. Will be startingf tomorrow out with you again.


  54. Sumo, I think you mis-understood my accuracy question. The fact that he mentions dime-size groups, in BOTH .177 and .22 is what got my attention. I wanted to ensure the .22 is accurate, because they always talk of small group accuracy in .177, or at least in Field Target, from what I gather. The fact that such accuracy can be obtained by a .22 (among other features) has really riveted my attention to this blog. I know accuracy: it’s what my other rifles lacked in as fine a detail. Now to see if the testing shows true. JP


  55. I’m surprised it took Crossman such a long time to get into the PCP market, especially considering their expertise with CO2???

    I like the looks of the new Discovery, apart from the bulky figure of eight barrel support. I think it will do very well as an entry level PCP in the US market.

    It should also do well in the UK if it can be sold at a competitive price. It should give lots of shots at 12FPE and the walnut stock is a real bonus.

    Can’t wait to see the full test!!!


  56. BB,

    Now, THIS is what happens when you have an airgun manufacturer with a clue about what the real shooters want. You are owed a great debt of gratitude for your technical suggestions, and Crosman is owed major kudos for taking the ball and running with it.
    Now, if only I weren’t saving up for an engagement ring…
    ;-)


  57. Everyone,

    Questions, questions!

    I wrote a double-long posting yesterday and all I got were more questions. Great! You are excited about the Discovery, and I am excited to be able to tell you about it.

    I’m not answering your questions directly, but I am reading all of them and will be addressing them as I show the gun to you. Questions about the trigger, the steel in the breech, the shroud issue, accuracy in both calibers, how it will be packaged and more will all be addressed as we go.

    I think the Discovery is one of the most important airguns to be developed in the last 50 years – partly because of what it is, technologically and partly because of what it does, which is open the floodgates to PCPs for almost everyone.

    This will be a fun report.

    B.B.


  58. B.B.,

    I knew that I should have woke up early to check todays blog. It looks like Crosman and others owe you one. It’s nice that they did not use a 766/2100 stock. I’m like others and would like to see that gun shoot quietly ,but then again 20+ fpe is a little too much for a 30+ yards back yard in town. Maybe c02 has a place.

    Today or should I say yesterday I got a package and have been playing with my SmartReloader digital scales and haven’t opened up the crono box yet. I have been seeing so many good ideas on a quiet trap lately. One guy used a fuse box.

    I think my problem with the p3 clone is that superdome pellets fit too tight. On one of the guns it goes pop and no pellet comes out. On the other air is released after the shot is made.


  59. JP,

    I said I wasn’t going to answer anyone’s question about the Discovery, but you are asking about accuracy of the .22 caliber in general. Yes, a .22 can be just as accurate as a .177. In fact, in the case of the Discovery, it shot a slightly SMALLER group at 50 yards!

    The .22 isn’t selected for field target, not because it isn’t accurate but because the pellet is larger than a .177. In field target the pellets have to pass through the kill zone without touching the sides, so the smaller the pellet is, the greater your chances are. No caliber other than .177 is used by serious competitors for this reason.

    But shots groups are measured from the centers of the two holes farthest apart. A .177-caliber pellet and an .80-caliber bullet can shoot a group the same size. The .80-caliber bullet group will be much larger overall, but the centers of the two groups will be the same distance apart.

    As Sumo says, caliber makes little difference to accuracy.

    B.B.


  60. BB, another question I’ve thought up: you mention other high velocity rifles getting lead deposits in the bore. Does this rifle have that problem? How would you solve that? How do you tell pure lead pellets from alloy lead? JP



  61. JP,

    I don’t know how to tell YOU to discern the difference, but 40 years of handloading and casting bullets have taught me how to tell. One test is when your fingernail won’t scratch the pellet, it’s probably hardened. But that’s not reliable because of people having nails of differing hardnesses.

    The fact that they use antimony to harden the lead is almost a given. There are other metals they could use, but antimony is the cheapest and best, I believe.

    All Crosman lead pellets are hardened lead.

    As for leading the bore, that has to do with the smoothness of the bore, the hardness of the lead and the velocity. I just give people a rule of thumb that 900 is the magic velocity because it happens to also be good for accuracy, but in truth leading occurs at 850 and some rifle will tolerate some pellets up to 1,000 f.p.s. or even faster.

    B.B.


  62. Andreas,

    Probably not. Crosman will sell to the market, not to individuals, so they will sell what the importers buy. If an importer orders a quantity of FAC Discoverys, I suppose Crosman would fill the order because it was legal to do so, but there would have to be an order for them to sell FAC.

    The Home Office has really cracked down of the sales of airguns in the UK, so I don’t know what the future holds.

    B.B.


  63. B.B.

    Thanks for the information. I ‘ve been trying to find ways to import an air rifle by myself and I have found the legal way to do so, it’s simple actualy.

    What I do not know and I would like you to help me if you can, is whether the US (or even pyramyd air) allows airguns to be exported to the EU – or anywhere outside the US. If that is allowed then I can take it from there.

    Thanks again



  64. Hi BB,
    JJ here.

    I agree, the Discovery is the greatest advance in fifty years, if not longer.

    The high speeds have rasied a question I’ve always wondered about.

    Why does Crosman sell only hardened pellets, especially since they may lead to leading of the barrel?

    jj






  65. BB,
    A blog about the history of Crosman’s pellets, including leading up to and including their hardened pellets, would be terrific.

    I hope it fits in soon.

    Thanks.

    jj


  66. Awesome piece of reading material!

    This question is to anyone here and espesially the pros!!!,

    Will they issue a full left handed version of the discovery????????? Me myself and a lot of friends are dying to find out!!!

    BB? Do you know whats up?

    thanks in advance!

    Henry Ball


  67. Henry,

    No, I don’t know what Crosman will do. Traditionally they have allowed the aftermarket airgunsmiths to make the conversion to left-hand use, but maybe this new rifle is important enough to change that.

    I will let everyone know when I find out.

    B.B.


  68. I was reading the comments here and jj mentioned high speed pellets which reminded me of something. Slower is better.

    Mr. Thompson, as in the Thompson sub-machine gun, did a study to determine the effect of projectiles on the body. He determined the a large, slow moving, projectile will do more damage than a smaller, fast moving, projectile with the same energy and sometimes more.

    Now days the big thing is energy but pre WWII the shooters would refer to a bullet’s L or Lethality factor. I don’t remember the mathematical formula for L but it had to do with projectile weight, diameter, and velocity. Modern day bullets are much more advanced than they were 100 years ago, and can transfer nearly all of their energy to the target in one massive dose, which has left L factor obsolete. However, pellets are still mostly cast lead, like the ammo of yesterday, which means that L factor may still be resolvent to them.

    In short, this is a plus for the Discovery 22 and all other .22 cal pellet rifles of normal velocity over the super magnum .117′s like the Hunter Extreme.

    mech




  69. Mech,

    my condor is a killing machine in .22 but when i moved DOWN to the 177 it was inaccurate on the second half of the power gage and had a tendency to “acupuncture” animals. The condor likes a variety of pellets in .22 so thats good. It likes jsb exact heavies, kodiaks, eun jins, Logun penetrators, and others.

    I use .22 cal for ALL my small game airgun hunting. Im talking pcps so the flatness of shooting is irrelevant. I want to shoot 930 – 950 fps no matter what.

    I agree with you or sure!


  70. BB,
    I like having a light-fast bullet on small game, but if its bigger than a coyote, I’ll take big and slow. My main small game gun is a 17HMR, but after that its 12ga, 35Rem, and 350 Rem Mag(big and fast). I seen a comparison of the 30-30 and the 35 rem. The 30-30 has more energy throughout its effective range, but 35 rem has a higher L factor. What’s funny is that 30-30 is recommended for deer, while 35 is for bear. Go figure.

    mech



  71. TO ALL, As ex law enf. Ihave to get my 2 cents in on this one!If Im going into combat,& have to choose between a 9 mm. and a 45—– Give me a 1911/45cal. PLEASE SIR!! NO COMPARISON!!! 45 is a THUMPER!! 9 mm. ACCUPUNCTURE!! SLOWER IS BETTER!! Hey wait a second,,,wont the new Benjamin pump work for a Dragon Slayer? With a tune Ill bet it will match The venerible 45 ACP.!! Im DRIFTING again! (OLD TIMERS!) LOL.!! Tim. I mean uhhh, George!



  72. Anonymous, where can you find a new, 3 stage, high pressure (3000+ PSI), quality hand pump for less than $150??? If you can tell me I’ll be waiting in line.


  73. Wow, this rifle sounds great! Question is; I just bought an RWS 460 .22 mag a couple of months ago and love it! I was slightly dissapointed in that the velocities were not what was stated, but still deliveres at high velocities, is a beautiful gun, and fires very accurately. How would this PCP compare? Are the FPS figures inflated like RWS? I mostly use my RWS for hunting. I really would like to purchase one, but I would hate purchase it then come back and say to myself; dang my RWS 460 is still better.
    Your comments,
    Thanks



  74. know you’ve got lots on your hands but couldn’t lurk thru this one.

    Just a big ars smile here…not that I need another gun (right now)

    reminds me of that car ad.

    “This changes everything”

    If there isn’t a hidden/unforseen dissapointment factor I can see springer sales take’n a hard hit.

    Turtle


  75. Hello…Hope it’s not like early Legacy hipe..l bought one early on,because of great things l read about it, big mistake, nothing was right, right down to barrel wobble…lf Benji will lesson to “you” at all, have them field test this new rifle a bit more before putting it on the market…I would love this new rife, but don’t want a repeat of the Legacy mistake…Once bitten twice shy…What do you think…TOM



  76. Tom,
    Can you elaborate more specifically on the problems you have been having w/ the Legacy. Perhpas fps and accuracy results would be helpful to us prospective buyers.

    Thanks,
    hegshen




  77. B.B.,
    I’m sorry…I was referring to the blogger who wrote that he was disappointed in his discovery. Just wanted to know more of the specifics.
    I look forward to your velocity report tomorrow.

    Thanks,
    hegshen


  78. hegshen,

    Out of curiosity, who was that blogger? I know everyone who has this rifle and the only blog I’m aware of other than this one and Crosman’s is Jim Chapman’s.

    I though he was very satisfied with his. No?

    B.B.


  79. hegshen has confused the matter. the blogger named “Tom” (the other Tom) was speaking of issues with the Legacy. hegshen turned it into issues with the Discovery.



  80. I’m sorry for confusing the matter. I was quickly skimming and made a mistake. Good to know that Tom was taking about another rifle.
    For those of us who already own a PCP pump (Air Force pump), can we purchase just the adapter to fit the discovery, or do we need to buy crosman’s pump?



  81. So, does that mean, then we have to purchased the combo w/ the pump?
    B/c why would you purchased the gun w/ no way to charge it?


  82. YOU probably would not buy it without the pump, but I was answering another shooter’s question. He already owns a pump and wondered whether the gun could ONLY be purchased with the pump.

    B.B.


  83. this is one of those times I am quite proud of my “reading comprehension”. bb, I understand why you will have to limit the questions you answer. I’m not denegrating anyone, but with some of the questions that are asked of you (with the answers staring people in the face, or somewhere else in other blogs), I believe some people should not be allowed to own airguns. I definitely wouldn’t want to be shooting anywhere near them.


  84. About the “stupid” questions. I realize that sometimes folks miss things that are there, but I’ve done that many times myself. And then I think about how happy I am when I need an equatorial mount for a spotting scope, and someone else points me to the resource.

    I remind myself of those situations, because I never know if the guy asking the question is in the same position as I am.

    I think I have become more patient in my old age, though I do admit to writing scathing answers sometimes, but never sending them.

    B.B.


  85. Mine is on order with a pair of pistols to back it up…the EB22 and HB22. It didn’t hurt that they brought it out under the Benji brand…I have been shooting Benji/Sherri multi-pumps and CO@ for more than 25 years. This option makes perfect sense. A couple of readers have commented on the limited use of CO2 due to temperature fluctuations…one commented that there are “two optimal days a year”…obviously being somewhat sarcastic…but it might surprise your readers to know that we hunt grouse and rabbits in Northern Ontario well into October and at ranges of 10 feet to 25 yards there is no problem retaining our point of impact and sufficient energy levels for cleanly harvesting game. Pneumatics take over from the middle of October on. All our Benji’s and Sherri’s are scoped or “dotted”. I will include our method of mounting since so many people seem to have difficulty mounting scopes on these weapons….
    I have been shooting Benji/Sheridan Streak rifles and EB/HB pistols for over 25 years….all of which have been scoped with one optic or another! I think that I can help with mounting your scope so that is rock solid stable on any of these or the 392/397 rifles. Believe it or not there is method of mounting that makes the new four piece mounts even more stable than the old two piece mounts…and I have experience with scoping dozens of each many times over.

    The process is this;

    Step One – Buy a one piece ring mount kit in the diameter and height you require for your optic, See attached link (http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/accessory.pl?accessory_id=805)

    Step Two – Next buy the Benjamin four piece mounts, See attached link (http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/accessory.pl?accessory_id=191)

    Step Three – When installing the four piece mounts spread them apart on the barrel so that they are the same width as your One Piece ring mount. Before you install them on the barrel, purchase a thick two-sided tape…cut a small tab form the tape that is the same width as the four piece mount and long enough to wrap around the barrel. Install the four piece mount over the tape and snug the screw down but do NOT over tighten!

    Step Four – Next place your one piece ring mount onto the Four Piece mounts, making sure that they are the same width apart…This next step is vital!!! When you snug the screws on your one piece mount (there are three or four depending on which brand you choose)…lightly snug down the end screws over the four piece mounts…then torque the center screws down firmly…then finally go back and tighten down the end screws over the four piece mounts. (Be sure to follow this order!)

    Step Five – Place and center your optic using firm but not ultra tight tension on the set screws. Sight in and enjoy at your leisure.

    I can guarantee if you use this method…your scope will never move…barring an “ACT OF GOD”…and it will be more solid than the original two piece mounts could have provided…and it also looks better!!

    Hope this helps…enjoy your shooting. Greg.


  86. Hey BB,
    I was with one of my good buddies and he had just bought the Benjamin Discovery in .22 caliber and it is great. But he had also givin me a tip on a brand new PCP by Crosman (just crossman no signiture seires) and i was really exited but can you give me any inside tips on it.

    Danny the Airguner


  87. Danny,

    Crosman is the company that owns Benjamin. As far as I know, the new rifle will be a Benjamin. The reason the Crosman name is used is because the website is theirs. That’s where all the news has been.

    Prototypes are being tested right now, but I’m not involved.

    They look for it to be out in December or January.

    B.B.


  88. B.B.

    Thanks a bunch but i have one question for you can you recomend a method of cleaning the bore of an airgun such as a CO2 or Pumpmatic Rifle.

    Danny


  89. Danny,

    My recommendation is to not clean the bore of a CO2 or multi-pump pneumatic airgun. First, many of their barrels are brass and cannot take cleaning of any kind and second, they don’t lead up, because velocities are too low.

    So, there is nothing to clean.

    B.B.



  90. Benjamin Hand Pump Repair:

    Sun Optics USA is working with Crosman to repair and rebuild their pumps. If your pump is out of warranty they will rebuild and test for you for a cost of $25.00 which includes all parts labor and shipping back to you. If it is in warranty contact Crosman first for verification and then send to us. If in warranty there will be no charge to you.

    Sun Optics USA
    2901 Suffolk Dr
    Suite 130
    Fort Worth, TX 76133
    Thanks for your inquiry
    Sun Optics USA

    817-350-4957

    Popular Contact Representative: Duane Sorensen

    Price listed for repair is most likely for CONUSA Shipping and subject to change.

    -AJ


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