Monday, December 15, 2008

2008 Long-range Airgun Silhouette Shooters Organization shoot (LASSO)

by B.B. Pelletier

Last Saturday, I attended the 2008 LASSO shoot on the Boyd Farm in Lavon, Texas. They have 1,000 acres of grazing land and generously allow Eric Henderson to host the shoot on one of the lower pastures. This shoot is for big bore airguns.

The targets are half-sized steel silhouettes of rams placed roughly at 100, 150, 200, 250 and 300 yards. This year I believe they ranged between 107 and 300 yards because several shooters measured them with laser rangefinders. The two closest targets that were 107 and 170 yards have round steel plates that fall out when hit. A shooter can aim to knock these plates out of the target and get extra points.


Before the shoot, Dennis Quackenbush (dark blue on the top right) makes several announcements to the shooters.


The winds was ferocious! Gusts were hitting 40 m.p.h. and the average wind from 9 o'clock was 20 m.p.h. While those big bullets weigh more than smallbore pellets, they can't buck that kind of wind out to 300 yards, so allowances had to be made.

Speaking of smallbores, some local shooters showed up with some smallbore PCPs and set up a range of their own off to the side. They were there to see what the big bores were all about, but they had some impressive guns of their own--including a BSA Super 10 that was so quiet all I heard was the hammer dropping. It shot 10.5-grain Premiers at 940 f.p.s. and could hold a reasonable group out to 50 yards despite the wind.


Wayne--here's a guy who shoots like you. No recliner, though.


Every year I try to notice the theme of the shoot, and this year it was advancement. Instead of just buying guns and shooting them, I saw shooters who were taking the technology into their own hands and developing things not seen before. One of these was a sidelever that took only a few ounces of effort to open and close. It was so smooth that it used a magnet to hold the handle in the closed position to prevent it from opening under its own weight.


This clever sidelever needs almost no effort to open.


One pair of shooting buddies arrived with all the creature comforts, including an ATV to ferry them around the grounds. There was a rack for rifles built into the bed, and it was clear these guys took their hobby most seriously.


These guys know how to live!


Another shooter had a Buntline pistol that got two shots at an identical 660 f.p.s. That's pretty fast when you consider he's shooting a 500-grain slug! An air pistol that generates 484 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle is a big deal! I will show it shooting in the video I'm compiling.


David enjoys his .308 pistol so much that he bought a companion at the LASSO meet. He shoots with open sights.


Other shooters had variations of Quackenbush big bores they had taken to new heights. There weren't as many Korean guns there this year, but several key shooters who normally use them failed to attend for various reasons.


This man sights-in his new Quackenbush .50 ball shooter after purchasing it from another shooter at LASSO.



LASSO host Eric Hernderson gets into a prone position to shoot his Quackenbush .308.


You can't shoot these guns without air. Since they get 2 to 4 shots per fill, that means a LOT of air. Eric had his compressor, and everyone was filling their carbon fiber tanks throughout the match. A typical rifle may get 40-60 shots per tank, so a compressor is a good thing to have. Eric's unit was busy most of the time filling many carbon-fiber tanks to 4500 psi.


Eric's compressor supplied all the air the shooters needed.


As the day progressed, the wind increased in force to the point that the competitors had something major to contend with come contest time. I had to leave before the match was finished, unfortunately, because my kidney stones were acting up. But there will be a LASSO again next year and several airgun shows before it to acquire that big bore. Is 2009 the year you want to get in on the fun?

I'll also be writing an article and making a video soon, so this isn't the last you have seen of this event.

75 Comments:

At December 15, 2008 5:52 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

With that compressor powered by an I.C.E., is there any concern of the exhaust mixing with the compressor's intake air?

 
At December 15, 2008 5:53 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B B,As we get close to the Holidays I would like to take a minute to thank you for all the advise and patience that you have with us beginners thoughout the year.I wish you and your entire family a Happy and Healthy Christmas and holiday season.By the way Mrs.Gaylord said in her article that she lived in Elizabeth,New Jersey when she was a child.I did too.Were about the same age I wonder if we were from the same neighborhood.What was her family name before Gaylord?.Thanks Again. Jersey Boy.

 
At December 15, 2008 7:25 AM, Anonymous Mr B. said...

Good morning B.B., Liked the video clip of the LASSO and am waiting for the rest. The .50 pistol sounds real interesting. Judging by the number of posts over the week ends we all enjoy the free ranging topics, sorta like an open phone Friday talk radio show, but better cause of the topics.

Wayne, keep up the good work with introducing your liberal household to the joys of shooting. Your skilful use, guided by B.B., of the right tools can open eyes to our beloved 2nd Amendment and the rest of the Constitution.

 
At December 15, 2008 9:32 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jersey Boy,

I lived in Elizabeth from 1950 until about 1957. I went to Abraham Lincoln Elementary School. Did you go there? One of my teachers was Mrs. Yogger (or Yogurt...I forget). Our family lived in a teeny little bachelor apartment on Linden Avenue near Warinanco Park. My best friends were Linda Armstrong (her dad was in the Navy), twins Ralph & Renate Pencic, and Joy Aiello. We lived down the street from the Mast family. They had big barking dogs that scared the living daylights out of me. There was a woman with polio in my apartment building. I adored her beyond words. Her father worked for the WHO at the UN...to bring the polio vaccine to Third World countries. Her name was Georgia Laubach. Know any of these people or places?

Edith Gaylord

 
At December 15, 2008 9:33 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Uh, I thought Eric Henderson was black? Because this Eric Henderson is...
[IMG]http://www.bigboreairguns.com/bisonhunt07/headtohead.jpg[/IMG]

 
At December 15, 2008 9:37 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Great blog, big bore airguns are extremely interesting. Been shooting airguns for a long time, but have never gotten into the big bore stuff. If I am going to the range, I have plenty of other firearms for that. Airguns for me are indoor. Good read though.

Also, you should head on over to the doc and get those kidney stones broken up using ultrasound...great procedure.

Though I did hear you are looking into alternative treatments and that is good too. I hope you get rid of them either way though, not fun to have.

 
At December 15, 2008 9:56 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Compressor,

There is zero fear about carbon monoxide because that compressor isn't made for filling scuba tanks. If it were it would have the correct filtration system because that is a major concern for divers.

B.B.

 
At December 15, 2008 10:08 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Eric,

You have confused Stephan Boles with Eric. Stephan is featured in a lot of Eric's videos.

B.B.

 
At December 15, 2008 10:26 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I asked that compressor question incorrectly... Would less-than clean compressed air, such as air mixed with some exhaust gases from the engine, have any effect on the airgun internals? Corrosion, seal degradation, etc?

 
At December 15, 2008 10:34 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Yes, dirty air would be bad. But all compressors have some kind of particulate air filter to prevent that. Gasses, alone, are not a problem.

B.B.

 
At December 15, 2008 10:38 AM, Anonymous wayne said...

B.B. & All,

Here is the photo bucket of the clean holes on copy paper. When one sticks the paper directly onto the sticky surface of the duct seal, and flattens it with a board or something, it gives backing for the pellet to cut a clean hole in the paper, even with JSB round nose, exacts.

//s424.photobucket.com/albums/pp325/wayne177/

Also I took some photos of my wife Chris, and her first shot... a .22 cal hole in the center of a can. And later in the pool room with the .177 side lever.
She's not having loads of fun yet, but is doing it for "The Gipper" (you Tom).

Of course in a bench rest, with the Air Arms S410 side lever, it's not a big deal to get good groups. But after getting the feel of it, she got one 3/8" - 5 shot group at 20 yards. She couldn't get comfortable bent over on the corner of the desk, so only a 10 min session.. I've got to get a better setup for her... But she said she would shoot with me a few times a week!!! YEAH!!!

Thanks so much Tom and Edith, it was your story that broke the ice.

Mr B.

Yes, that's one of my goals, while on the planet. Helping people let go of fears... on both sides...


Wacky Wayne, again...

 
At December 15, 2008 10:56 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Wacky Wayne,

I didn't realize your wife was shooting for me! Wow, I am honored.

What can I do for her?

B.B.

 
At December 15, 2008 10:59 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.

Too bad about the wind. I would have been interested in the big bore accuracy at those distances.

Wayne and all, glad to hear that your wife is joining you in shooting. I have had a major reversal. My brother just wrote me that his wife has put her foot down that guns are evil and dangerous so that he will not be joining me in shooting over the holidays. This is the same globe-trotting, motorcycle riding, bungee-jumping, get an infection henna tattoo in Dubai sister-in-law. Groan. My only recourse is my winning personality.... But I don't have high hopes.

Volvo, my guest blog is in the queue. Thanks for asking. The drift of it is that Rich from Mich did a super job, and the gun has realized its potential at long last.

Matt61

 
At December 15, 2008 11:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.

Aim the lithotripsy at the kidney stones and fire for effect.

Matt61

 
At December 15, 2008 11:06 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Mattf,

Do you think you have a guest blog in the que with us? Or are you referring to your own work?

B.B.

 
At December 15, 2008 11:24 AM, Blogger ajvenom said...

On springers, I wonder how popular a Gamo Hunter 890 with an Air Veturi gas ram air spring .22 would do if they were available?

There is the .177 model available now for $189.99. Not bad for a model with a wood stock and air spring. Then again I feel this to be a mistake on PA's part. When open the page it only mentions the spring-powered air rifle.

What does the future hold for the budget conscientious spring hunter around $200.00 except for the RWS-34? The finish on their wood stock isn't the best and no rubber butt pad. Oh well.


Lot of responses to Edith's blog....lol...BB has some competition now...he he

How you get well soon.


AJ

 
At December 15, 2008 11:26 AM, Blogger FRED said...

I've been following the comments by BB and Mrs. BB and have arrived at the conclusion there is no Mrs. BB. You've just made it up to get the rest of us jealous, BB. :)

I currently live in Jersey in what is now called Westfield. Used to be West Fields and was a part of Elizabeth but that was quite a few years ago. I also lived in Bloomfield and then just up the road from the Elmora section of Elizabeth (Union). Sounds like there are more than one shooters on this blog from Jersey. Do the rest of you folks have any place in particular you meet to shoot? Any interest in trying to get together?

I ask because Union County had shut down a trap and skeet range in Cranford ostensibly due to flooding but really because the neighbors who had moved into the area over the years (range goes back to 1905)complained about the noise. I've been inclined to contact Union County Parks and ask if the range could be used for air guns.

Anyway, I really enjoy your blog, BB and hopefully will see you at Roanoke next year. Take care of those stones. Hopefully they're not big enough to use in your air rifle reviews.

 
At December 15, 2008 11:58 AM, Anonymous wayne said...

B.B.

Chris says to "just keep on keepin on" and eat your greens, to get better soon.

What you do already is more than enough!!!

Wayne

 
At December 15, 2008 12:19 PM, Anonymous Dr. G. said...

Kevin,

What 5-shot, 10 yard groups does your 54 predictably achieve under best circumstances (best pellet, bench rest, indoor)?

- Dr. G.

 
At December 15, 2008 12:42 PM, Blogger kevin said...

Dr. G.,

I shoot the 54 at my home in the mountains mostly at 30 yards (90 feet) with jsb exacts (blue tin) and consistently get 1/2" groups bench rested. Never shot the 54 indoors. I also have a set of targets set up for the lesser powered guns at 20 yards (60 feet). Don't have paper target at 20 yards but have paint balls on tees and several gamo field targets (squirrels that have adjustable rings). The 54 can shoot the paint balls off the golf tees and knock down the field targets at 60 feet all day long so it's not shot much at that short distance. The r7, 397 and diana 27 are mostly shot at the 60 foot range. We'll be up at our place in the mountains for Christmas. I'll try to shoot some 10 yard groups then. The temperature at my place in the mountains (outside of Leadville, Colorado) is supposed to be a high today of -18 (18 below). It needs to be a little warmer over Christmas for me to get out and shoot. Could happen. Hope that answers your questions.

kevin

 
At December 15, 2008 12:55 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB and Everyone,

Off Topic...Shot at 3 squirrels this weekend at about 20 yds with Beeman RS2 (rated at 1000fps but probably closer to 800-900) in .177caliber. First one was a one shot kill in the head. Second one I completely missed, third one I shot twice in the shoulder and had to run into the yard to step on it's head to stop it from suffering. When I was cleaning that one I noticed neither of the pellets made it through the shoulder and in to the lungs/heart area. As a matter of fact I found both pellets lodged in between the squirrels hide and shoulder, which obviously did not kill it but definately rendered it immobile. I could see the arm/shoulder was badly broken. I was using the cheap Crossman HP's from the local Wally World. I'm wondering if it might be better to use a pointed pellet on squirrels? It looked to me that the pellet lost a great deal of it's energy penetrating the tough hide of the squirrel. I'm thinking a pointed pellet would have an easier time penetrating the hide, flesh and bone and still wouldn't over-penetrate this tough little critter. I ordered a couple tins of the Beeman Silver Stings to try out. They are 8.6 grains compared to the Crossman's at 7.9 grains. I'm thinking that with the pointed pellets the two shoulder shots I made with the hp's would have penetrated through the squirrel's shoulder and into the rib cage/heart&lung area. So I'm thinking of sticking with the hp's for birds, rabbits and chipmunks but using pointed pellets for squirrels. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Aaron

 
At December 15, 2008 1:06 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Aaron,

Accuracy counts more than power and penetration. Use a high-quality DOMED pellet in your gun. Crosman Premiers are fine - just not the hollowpoints. JSB Exacts are even better. The 8.4 grain pellets for your rifle would likely be the best.

B.B.

 
At December 15, 2008 1:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.

Didn't you get the guest blog that I sent to blogger@pyramidair.com on November 27?

Matt61

 
At December 15, 2008 1:24 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Matt,

You are supposed to post your guest blogs to the account we give you. Haven't you gotten the account information?

That address is to request the account information.

Did you email a blog to that address?

B.B.

 
At December 15, 2008 1:28 PM, Blogger Tracy said...

ALL
I just bought my second pistol. It's a new Smith&Wesson Sigma in .40S&W. Any helpful advise or experiences? I was having trouble finding accessories for that weird rail.
Shadow express dude

 
At December 15, 2008 1:53 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.

I guess I didn't understand. I just emailed the blog to that address. I never received any account information.

Matt61

 
At December 15, 2008 2:04 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Matt,

Email a request to blogger@ pyramydair.com and I will contact you directly.

B.B.

 
At December 15, 2008 2:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello B.B. and everyone:
Today I received the spare front screw for my Talon SS from AirForce (pretty quick service!!)... I tried to put it in, but as we know already, it went only halfway through... I spoke with the gunsmith and he told me to take it to him tomorrow morning... But before I take it there, does anyone know how much (approximately) a re-threading job costs??? I am willing to pay anything, but I would like to know how much before going there...
Man, I am anxious to shoot with the rifle.. But I just won't continue with the Crossman HP's without trying first the best pellets to correct the accuracy problem... Today a shot some pellets with my Gamo Whisper after arriving early from the lab., but I just wasn't pumped up!! LOL... Not until I try for the second time the Talon!! jajaj...

B.B.
Man, what I would give to live in the States and do the kind of hunting and shooting you guys do there!! I envy all of you... in a good and safe manner :)

Wayne:
Thanks again for your generosity!!! And I would really enjoy reading about the FX Whisper performance... One of those FX rifles could be my next investment in one or two years..!! Hopefully...
Take care everyone!! Happy Holidays...
Cheers,
Jony

P.S.: Don't let the Christmas shopping for too late!!! LOL

 
At December 15, 2008 2:20 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Jony,

The gunsmith should only need to CHASE the threads unless they are really messed up. That should cost only a few dollars.

B.B.

 
At December 15, 2008 2:21 PM, Anonymous -Curious said...

I just wonder how was Quackenbush experiment to set velocity record of PCP. Any result to share with us?

 
At December 15, 2008 2:21 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wayne,

Your competitive nature is to be respected, but I will pass on “hook’em up”
(Good ole boy terminology around here for when they chain their pick-up trucks together, and the one that overpowers and drags the opponents’ is the winner.)

As B.B. notes in accuracy they are too closely matched anyway, sharing the same barrels. Remember, three of the guys who owned both could not tell any difference. Also PA doesn’t carry the FX line anymore, so...

In my every changing airgun world, my current goal is fewer rifles with each bringing something very unique to the table. This rifle is all about quiet. What I struggled with was giving up adjustable power, the gauge, and side lever for the lower discharge noise – worth it for the same investment???

That’s why I badgered you before to try one; I respect your opinion and would have valued your thoughts.

But then I went back to my goal of quiet. (Two other rifles are supposed to be as quiet or more so then the Whisper, but they are 1.5 to 2 times higher in cost.)

However, when I am ready to upgrade the .22 Raider the .22 S410will be on my short list.

I am still off line at home. I think I need a new router.

Volvo

 
At December 15, 2008 2:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

regarding shooting in jersey. Here is a good list of ranges and clubs www.usashooting.com/clubState.php?id=NJ
I am currently not a member of a shooting club, but was interested in joining after getting my talon ss. The somerset range is the closest and 15 minutes from me.

Also bb, I recently have tried some of cabelas outfitter dome pellets. I was astonished! There are no marks from molding, weight is very uniform, I believe they are oiled, they are cheap, and the tin is padded. These outperformed CP's and JBL's with my gun. I recognize pyramydair doesn't carry these, but BB, you should try a tin or two.
Thanks
John from...

 
At December 15, 2008 2:25 PM, Anonymous wayne said...

Jony,

FedEx picks up in one hour, and your pellets will be off.

This time of year, probably 5 days to get to you. Maybe Saturday.. I'll email you the tracking number when I get it from the raised bed shipping dept. The label will say from "Naturalyards", so don't worry, it's will be your pellets.

Merry Christmas,

Wayne

 
At December 15, 2008 2:26 PM, Anonymous UW Hunter said...

B.B.
I got a little bored and decided to polish the crown on my Panther.22. I put a pellet into the breach and pushed it to within about 1/4" of the crown to keep debris from making its way into the bore. After I was finished, I loaded another pellet into the breech to fire both pellets out of the bore to test the gun. When I did this, the gun cracked really loud. At least as loud as a .22LR. I fired another pellet and it sounded normal. I once again loaded a pellet into the end of the barrel and one in the breach to see if that is what caused the loud pop and sure enough it did it again. My ears are ringing! Do you think this is caused bu the air between the two pellets being rapidly compresses and then released? Do you think this could harm my gun? I don't plan on doing it again, just wondering if I could have done some damage.

 
At December 15, 2008 2:35 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Curious,

Yes, I have the results of the test.

Another blog!

B.B.

 
At December 15, 2008 2:36 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Jersey John,

I will put my order in today!

B.B.

 
At December 15, 2008 2:37 PM, Anonymous UW Hunter said...

I just checked out those Cabela's pelets. I think they are probably made by Crossman. The look like the same ones that are available in the Premier line (not the ones in the box, the ones in the tins). They seem to be the same styles as those and they look similar. The only ones available in .22 are the HPs just like the Crossmans

 
At December 15, 2008 2:48 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

UW Hunter,

It sounds like a detonation to me. Too much resistance to the pellet and it ignited the air mixture coming from the transfer port. A dry-fire will do the same thing.

Keep on truckin', but don't do that anymore.

B.B.

 
At December 15, 2008 2:49 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Jersey John,

I ordered three tins of the magnums. We will see what they are.

B.B.

 
At December 15, 2008 3:55 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hope there as good for you as they were for me :-)
John

 
At December 15, 2008 4:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wayne,

Lazy on my part to the power of 10:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/543831/message/1177366554/Whisper+test%21

All - I am not Jim, just borrowing his Whisper results.

Volvo

 
At December 15, 2008 4:33 PM, Anonymous wayne said...

Volvo,

The link didn't work for me, I got a nice target page though. thanks

Wayne

 
At December 15, 2008 4:44 PM, Anonymous Dr. G. said...

B.B.,

I am writing re. the Whiscombe 80, which I have been shooting about 200 times per day using different pellets and adjusting the HOTS to learn the best setting for each pellet and thus the maximum accuracy of each pellet for this rifle.

I quickly (after only 300 shots) realized that even a 1/8th turn of the weight typically alters the POI at least 1/4" (it seems to move it around a clock face), and a 1/4 or 1/2 turn of the weight can make a 1/2" POI change. I also began noting that once the weight was adjusted and the lock ring tightened, screwing the end cap sometimes further moved the weight, and even 1/8 further turn changed the setting.

Furhter, as you have experienced, unscrewing the end cap and screwing it back on after every 2 shots (when the weight is correct, the two shots are pellet on pellet, and when it is not, the pellets will not be on top of each other), and doing this 50-90 times or so for each pellet, takes a couple hours and is tedious.

So, to save time I began adjusting the weight, getting feedback from the POI, and then (without putting the end cap back on) adjusting the weight again. This not only saved over an hour for working with each pellet, but it ended up being a bit more accurate (for, as I wrote above, screwing the end cap back on sometimes moves the weight also and then one has to do it over again).

Of course, once the adjustment is made, I cannot screw back the endcap or the groups will be completely changed (the endcap itself significantly effects the harmonics). So, I am left with the unfinished weight sticking out the end (ugly), but also left with much more time (over an hour less per pellet), less aggravation screwing and screwing and screwing, and a bit more accuracy to boot (without the endcap the weight can stick out further, which so far seems to be the more accurate position for most of the pellets).

I thought that you should know about this if you don't already, because without this information you may be hestitant to try the rifle with different pellets.

Whiscombe said to me that I could try any weight pellet, no problem.

Since some people wonder about the effets of different weight pellets on springer performance, here are some interesting results at 10 yards in .22 caliber. Each fps result is +/- about 5 fps, which is one reason that this rifle is so accurate.

12.1 grn (Hobby) = 875 fps = 21 ft. lbs.....14.6 grn (H&N h.p.) = 850 fps = 23 ft.lbs....16 grn (AA Diabolo) = 860 fps = 26 ft. lbs....17.2 grn (H&N silhouette) = 755 fps = 22 ft.lbs.....21 grn (Kodiak) = 702 fps = 23 ft. lbs...29 grain (Eun Jin) = 545 fps = 19 ft. lbs.

Whiscombe designed his rifle for .22 pellets that weigh about 14-14.5 grains (JSB brand), and we see that indeed there is a tendency for the power to fall off on either side of this number. When using the pellet Whiscombe reccomends or the 16 grain, one achieves the maximum power.

B.B., related to the tuned 54, what are the consistent 5-shot groups that an expert will achieve using the best pellets, indoors, at 10 yards (bench rested if that is most accurate)? I am wondering if this rifle should be expected to make one hole (like the Theoben Rapid) or if it is simply not that accurate (the best I get, albeit very consistenly, is 1/8" CTC).


Kevin,

Thank you for your response. I eagerly await your results for 10 yard indoor shooting.

- Dr. G.

 
At December 15, 2008 5:31 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Dr. G.,

I only have 54 experience with a .22 that was my friend's rifle. It was a one-holer out to 20 yards at least. It liked Premiers best of all.

It didn't care for RWS or JSB pellets as much, but was still pretty accurate.

B.B.

 
At December 15, 2008 5:52 PM, Anonymous BG_Farmer said...

BB,
Sorry your trip to LASSO got cut short. This is definitely an event in big bore shooting I could see myself enjoying.

Matt,
Your sister-in-law sounds charming:). Did you you ever pick out a rimfire? I've got a fixation recently on the Savage Mark II FVT. Do you know which one I'm talking about? It seems like something you might like also.

Vince,
I wonder how much the real Avanti BB's would improve something like a Red Ryder, assuming they feed? If the shot tube is good, it should help over run of the mill shot.

 
At December 15, 2008 7:09 PM, Anonymous wayne said...

B.B.

When you say "one-holer", do you mean the size of the pellet, or a group that could be 3/8" but still one hole?

Wayne

 
At December 15, 2008 7:57 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jajajajaj
B.B. I just saw your video of Roanoke in P.A.'s Website... jajajja... "Now we're back into the pretty wood... No you're not gonna be able to buy this thing.. Ain't that gorgeous!!! You could almost EAT THAT BUTT!!".... jajajaja... That was hilarious... But you were right... Daaaamn, that was hell of a shiny and good looking rifle!! What was it?? Was it custom made??? Take care sir!!
Cheers,
Jony

P.S.: It was at around 53 seconds after the beginning.. Approximately

 
At December 15, 2008 9:19 PM, Anonymous Carter said...

can the gas springs sold on Pryamyd Air be installed in a Crosman quest 500?

Can a Regular rifle scope be used on a break action rifle? many of my friends say it cannot.

 
At December 15, 2008 9:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.,
I am curious - what are people into big bore airguns? Given the amount of power those big bores have, wouldn't that be easier just to shoot firearms?

 
At December 15, 2008 10:14 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mrs. Gaylord,I went to school on the other side of town in Bayway.Roosevelt JHS, and then to Jefferson H.S.Sorry I dont know any of those people,but I remember Warinanco park.I caught a lot of catfish in that lake during the summer.I moved to a nearby town in 1970 after getting back from the service.It was a great pleasure talking to you about a place that holds great childhood memories,and those years of carefree summers and rock and roll were the best.God Bless, and good luck to you and your family.Jersey Boy.

 
At December 15, 2008 10:59 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.!!! and everyone else!!
I managed to fix the threads in the hole by myself!! (uhh big deal.. LOL)... But you were right B.B., and Yvette was excellent!! Thanks sir!! Send her my regards and my sincere THANK YOU...!! With the new screw, after studying for my Biochem Final... I sat down for about 30 minutes, CHASING the threads!! LOL... I started noticing that the screw managed to go deeper and deeper, until I could screw it all the way down!!! YEah!!.. jajaj.. So Wayne, Those FEDEX people better come in a hurry or I will hunt them down personally with my Gamo Whisper... LOL... Then, I'll pick up the pellets you sent, and finish them off with the Talon!! LOL... Nah, I'm just pumped up!!!
So two more things to do:
1) Repaint the scratched surface
2) Accuracy test!!

I will call AirForce tomorrow to see what type of paint I should be looking for... Take care people!!
Cheers,
Jony

 
At December 15, 2008 11:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dr. G.

So after the dust has cleared what kind of accuracy are you getting from the Whiscombe? My understanding is that this is the ultimate springer, better even than the TX200, so I expect it to be getting PCP type results.

BG_Farmer, my sister-in-law is quite a personality and generally adventurous, so this is a new one to me. I have indeed thought much about rimfires, however, I've been caught by the reverse of the perennial argument about air rifles versus rimfires. Given that the two are comparable and I can shoot an air rifle indoors, I can't see a reason for the rimfire. The logic is airtight. But that has never stopped me from fantasizing. With my experience with the AccuTrigger which is now installed on all of the Savage rimfires, I can't see going with any brand other than Savage. A frontrunner with me is the Savage BTVS which is profiled on the Savage homepage. There's quite a nice write-up. It is the only rifle ever to win two particular gun awards in the same year, and the reviewers claim that it is the most accurate rimfire they have ever seen. Sometimes I think about getting an Anschutz 1407 or whatever is the equivalent model now and exorcising my high school rifle team fiasco, but the Savage BTVS is probably just as accurate for a much cheaper price. Apparently, all of the Savage rimfires are the same gun with different stock and barrel options, so the model you mention is probably the same thing and even cheaper.

Another fantasy rimfire would be the Thompson/Center autoloader which looks very nice.

Jony, glad everything worked out for you. Where are you from anyway?

Matt61

 
At December 15, 2008 11:46 PM, Anonymous wayne said...

Jony,

Your Christmas gift of JSB, Kodiak and Eungins pellets is in the hands of Santa now. Since your on the P.R. Island, in San Juan, I'm guessing Saturday.. but who knows. It looks by the label, it might be coming by plane, even though I shipped it FedEx Ground...

But, start with the tracking number I gave you, so you won't have to hunt down so many drivers! ): There are a lot of them this time of year..

Wayne

 
At December 16, 2008 12:04 AM, Anonymous Dr. G. said...

B.B.,

Thank you for the 54 feeback.

Did you already know what I wrote about the time saving method of leaving off the Whiscombe end cap?

B.B., At 10 yards, how accurate are the most accurate AirSoft guns? So far, I am very impressed with the overall play-value that my son is getting with the $75 CO2 AirSoft gun I bought him, and wondered about the actual accuracy of those that cost over $150?


Also, it seems that one CO2 cartridge fires a lot more of those little plastic balls (which weigh 1/100th of a pellet) than the 50 shots I am accustomed to with my pellet and metal bb guns. Do you know about how many shots these CO2 AirSoft guns get per cartridge?

I understand that you may be taking a break between 1 a.m. - 5 a.m., so I hope I catch you before or soon after.

Remember, for the sake of those stones, keep moving, so mebbe you should keep your break short.

Thanx again.

P.S. Sometimes the word verification software creates funny words. This was 'gunsmore.' Funny co-incidence, eh?

- Dr. G.

 
At December 16, 2008 12:14 AM, Anonymous BG_Farmer said...

Matt,

Try to get her to shoot anything. My mother-in-law hates guns, but we had her shooting air rifles and having a high old time after the first couple of shots. I bet she'll be ready for rimfires in another couple or so years:).

The BTVS has two things I don't like: thumbhole stock and stainless steel:), but you're right, its the same action and barrel. I actually like the BV best (laminate stock is hard to beat), but the FVT seems like a great deal and is set up with the sights.

I've heard/read excellent things about about the T/C autoloader, but never come across one in person.

 
At December 16, 2008 12:49 AM, Anonymous Dr. G. said...

Matt#61,

I see that the more air guns that I buy, the more that each one informs my experience of the others, much as with automobiles. I very much enjoyed driving my '67 Plymouth GTX with the 440 Hi-Po engine and 6 (2) barrel Hollies and very much enjoyed driving my '63 bug with the 40 (?) horses backing me up. I owned each at the same time during the 1970s.

Sometimes people use guns and automobiles as tools in sports, such as in target shooting and auto racing.

Then there are other sports that require that the participants possess more comprehensive athletic characteristics (e.g., speed, power, dynamic co-ordination, endurance), such as baseball and tennis.

These latter sports certainly use equipment, and I am heavily involved at several levels with each sport. However, it seems to me that the focus on equipment versus the focus on technique is heavily weighted in these gun and car sports.

As B.B. appears to be implying with his answer (above) to my question regarding 54 springer accuracy (and everyone knows that PCPs are more accurate than springers), most air guns (whatever the method of creating the air) that costs over $600 can be expected to put pellet on pellet out to 20 yards, and probably, putting words into B.B.s mouth, he would agree that any air gun costing over $1500 can put pellet on pellet out to 30 yards (obviously no wind, sorted pellets).

Each of the cars, the V.W., and the GTX, got me to wher I was going in town, but each was "comfortable" in a different way. If I were to use one for the sport of auto racing, I would choose the latter. However, I tended to drive the V.W. more, about a 2-1 ratio.

The tremendous "comfort" of this Whiscombe (after all, they all shoot straight, don't they?), and what also allows it to be used to great advantage in sport should I so choose, is that it "allows" me to shoot much more accurately because it has the best most perfect trigger... jajajaj...EXCELLENT 3 oz. Match Trigger...jajajaja...perfect balance!!!...just pick it up and it aims itself..jajaja..wonderful flat bottom :) LOL (damn that was funny ha! ha!! ha!!! .jajajaj. )...jajajajjjajjja. OOOoopsss ...jajaja. It's Late...Gotta go....

Dr. G ? ...jajajaja..

 
At December 16, 2008 9:12 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Wayne,

In this case I means a group in which all pellet holes overlapped -- not a single pellet-sized hole.

B.B.

 
At December 16, 2008 9:24 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Carter,

Back in the 1970s there were not as many airgun scopes available as today, so we used regular riflescopes. They worked fine.

Of course in those days we were not trying to put two pellets through the same hole at 35 yards. We were happy with a one-inch group back then.

My first FWB 124 (a breakbarrel that was considered a scope-breaker in its day) was scoped with a Tasco that was a firearm scope. It was good for hitting pop cans at 50 yards, but I never tested it on paper targets at any distance.

As for breaking scopes, most manufacturers are now bracing their lenses in both directions, so scope don't break as often as they did 30 years ago.

B.B.

 
At December 16, 2008 9:29 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Curious,

I think you mean to ask WHY are people interested in big bore airguns.

The big bore is like a science experiment that you can use. It performs so well on just a small amount of compressed air. And modern big bores have advanced the technology many times beyond what the guns of old could do.

Then there is the safety factor. I shoot a .45/70 rifle that carries about three MILES. A big bore shooting the same bullet is just as accurate at 100 yards and may only carry half a mile. Big difference.

Finally, big bores are the muscle cars of the airgun world. Some people will always be attracted to the biggest and baddest, and big bore are it for airguns.

B.B.

 
At December 16, 2008 9:32 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Jony,

Now you know what thread chasing means. Good deal.

As you proceed, take things slow and deliberate. When you tighten those Allen screws, do not torque them too much. They only need to be snug.

Let us know what you learn.

B.B.

 
At December 16, 2008 9:46 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Matt,

Like you I saw the Thompson Center .22 autoloader ads and wondered if it wasn't the most accurate autoloader in the land. I have done a four-part series in Shotgun News in which I looked at the Ruger 10/22. One of those articles was a test between the 10/22 Target - Ruger's answer to the aftermarket tuned guns and a custom 10/22 I built.

I shot 10-shot groups and guess what - the groups were all larger than a half-inch at 50 yards.

I was delighted to read another gun writer who did the same thing with the Thompson Center and got similar results. He averaged 0.75-inch for ten shots at 50 yards.

In other words, don't believe the ads. And don't believe the writers who gush all over the guns and then don't show you the results. Or they show the results and have five-shot groups (or three - shudder). Or they neglect to mention the distance at which the targets were shot. Everyone then assumes 50 yards when 25 yards was the reality.

B.B.

 
At December 16, 2008 9:51 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Dr. G.,

Yes, I ran smack dab into the end cap thing when I first started testing the Whiscombe back in the mid '90s. Those threads are more appropriate to a micrometer than a muzzle cap. I never had time to install the cap during testing, so I just left it off.

I always wondered if there would be a difference with the cap on. I assumed there had to be, but I never had the time to test it. Now that you have been there and done that I know that you understand.

B.B.

 
At December 16, 2008 10:01 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Dr. G.,

I have seen two accuracy levels with airsoft at 10 yards. In a good pistol with a tight barrel, which I will define as a Marui Hi-Capa 5.1, I could hold about a one-inch group at 30 feet. That is with the gun rested and taking care while sighting. That means that hand-held it's closer to 1.5 nches for five shots.

With a sniper rifle I've seen half-inch groups at the same distance. The rifle I saw do that had a tight barrel and was shooting weighed BBs. You weigh them to eliminate those with voids.

Both these guns cost over $150. The sniper rifle had about $600 invested (though not all of that was put into accuracy), but the Hi-Capa was box-stock.

I am exercising every day, and I agree exercise is an important part of recovery. I think the stones have all dissolved, but I have now sworn off all things containing Aspartame sweetener. I am using organic stevia powder for most of my sweetening now.

B.B.

 
At December 16, 2008 3:28 PM, Anonymous BG_Farmer said...

BB,
I don't understand spending extra money on a 10/22 or any autoloader for that matter, though one of my friends cut down a sapling with a 10/22 once, which was pretty cool when I was that age.

My favorite accuracy "promises" are for Tikka and Vanguard (where you have to pay extra for it to shoot that well). Extremely important to aim for the ventricular valve of a deer, I suppose...I'm cynical that they do anything more than sort a quota from the test-fires, which means essentially nothing in my opinion.

 
At December 18, 2008 10:45 AM, Blogger ajvenom said...

AS SEEN ABOVE: AJVENOM "On springers, I wonder how popular a Gamo Hunter 890 with an Air Veturi gas ram air spring .22 would do if they were available?

There is the .177 model available now for $189.99. Not bad for a model with a wood stock and air spring. Then again I feel this to be a mistake on PA's part. When open the page it only mentions the spring-powered air rifle.

What does the future hold for the budget conscientious spring hunter around $200.00 except for the RWS-34? The finish on their wood stock isn't the best and no rubber butt pad. Oh well."

Sandra, from the PA Sales department has reponded to my email about this their liating was for the air riflr only (no gas spring).

I should have asked for a 5% off coupon.....If so and if I could only use them all at once, I probably could get a free air rifle by now.....LOL!!!!!!!!

 
At December 22, 2008 11:09 PM, Anonymous J said...

http://www.bigboreairguns.com/bbaonline2.wmv

 
At December 24, 2008 2:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This may be a stupid comment as i am pretty new to target shooting but how does the whole C02/PCP air compressor guns work and refill etc? Is there a blog perhaps explaining it for beginners interested in long range shooting?

 
At December 24, 2008 3:17 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Your question is not stupid but it will take me some time to answer it. Time as in weeks.

Can we start by you reading this report?

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/07/does-velocity-drop-as-pressure-drops.html

And then this one?

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2008/12/comparing-regulated-and-unregulated.html

And this one:

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/09/can-you-take-pressure.html

After those, ask me some more questions. And sign in as Newbie.

B.B.

 
At December 25, 2008 10:24 AM, Anonymous Newbie said...

Thanks BB! Merry Christmas!

 
At February 01, 2009 4:37 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

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At February 01, 2009 9:26 AM, Blogger kevin said...

ไทยเพื่อน

ยินดีต้อนรับ. ที่แปลไม่ได้ทำงานดี. คุณกำลังมีปัญหากับปืนเราสามารถช่วยเหลือ? ขอบคุณ.

Kevin

 
At March 03, 2009 3:25 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dose anyone know of a used Quackenbush .50 cal four sale. I am currently trying to get on his list and not having much luck.

 
At March 03, 2009 6:17 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Dennis opens his book once a year and buyers watch for it eagerly. It remains open long enough to take about 50 orders. That takes a couple hours.

Used guns come available all the time from my perspective. But you cannot wait or be tentative. They go in minutes.

If I were unscrupulous, I could order several Quackenbush rifles when they become available and resell them for twice what I paid. The .458 (he now calls the .457 and .458, because that is the true caliber) sells for under $700, but they go for $1,500 and up second-hand. I don't do that, but others do.

At every airgun show Dennis brings along one or two rifles to sell on speculation--so the attendees have something to buy. At Roanoke, he sold a .50 and one other gun. So all someone had to do was attend and have $650 in their pocket. If you watch the 2008 Roanoke video you will see that happening:

http://www.pyramydair.com/articles/roanoke-airgun-show-2008/

His guns are sold from time to time o n the Yellow Forum sales page:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/

I hope this has been of help. The way to buy a Quackenbush gun is to get close to Dennis and wait for the right opportunity.

B.B.

 
At December 20, 2009 11:38 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would like to see more air shotguns, like the Farco.
Does Quakenbush have any such plans?

 
At December 21, 2009 8:07 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Dennis pops out the occasional shotgun to order, but there is no fanfare. His guns are made to order, so you have to get on his list when it opens.

There are other air shotguns out there, but not all of them are engineered safely. Some are hot-rodded from existing guns and are quite unsafe.

You see them from time to time at airgun shows.

B.B.

 

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