The Drozd – a CO2 submachine gun

by B.B. Pelletier


Russian “bumblebee” Drozd submachine gun is exciting and accurate.

Today, we’ll look at something a little different. Full-auto airguns are very rare because soft lead pellets don’t do well in rapidly cycling feed mechanisms. There have been a few “automatic” BB guns, most working on the low-pressure siphon principle you learned in high school science. During World War II, a number of full-auto airguns were built as military trainers. Some of them shot BBs, but a few, like the Hotpoint trainer, shot 3/8″ bakelite balls that were the ancestors of today’s 6mm airsoft BB.

Flight of the bumblebee
Four years ago, the Russian firm Baikal brought a wicked-looking airgun to the SHOT Show in Las Vegas. It was all black and looked like a military submachine gun. It fired .177 round lead balls, like H&N round balls or Gamo round balls, and it was full-auto with a selector switch. Because the power supply is CO2, the gun cannot fire a sustained burst without freezing, so they designed it to be either a single-shot, a three-round burst or a six-round burst. They also regulated the firing solenoid to three different rates of fire.

The gun was a hit at the show, but many buyers felt it looked too threatening, so Baikal re-skinned it with a bright yellow plastic outer shell for the next year’s show. The contrasting yellow and black, plus the sound of the gun firing reminded them of a bumblebee, so they named it that – in Russian, of course. Hence, the Drozd.

Accurate and powerful!
The Drozd is very powerful when the correct ammo is used. At 60 feet, it buries balls two diameters deep in pine wood. When aimed and in the single-shot mode, which is really semiauto because the gun is electrically cocked, it will group on a nickel at 10 meters. That’s due to the wonderful rifled barrel it has.

Be careful!
Unfortunately, the importer, EAA, had Baikal include a small package of steel BBs with every gun, even though it is not meant for them. The owner’s manual doesn’t specify lead or steel anywhere except in one warning reference up front, where it notes that lead is known to California to be a threat to pregnant women. The repairman at EAA told me he gets guns back all the time with steel BBs jammed in their mechanism. At best, the BBs will ruin the finely rifled bore. To keep your gun working smoothly, use nothing but lead balls in your gun.

Operation
The gun is powered by six AA batteries stored in front of the frame under the muzzle. The 30-round magazine also holds the single CO2 powerlet that provides the firing force for every shot. The Drozd is very similar to an auto-electric airsoft gun, except that it’s many times more powerful and accurate than airsoft.

Saftey
THIS IS NOT A GUN TO SHOOT AT PEOPLE OR ANIMALS!
It will kill small animals and it will penetrate deeply into flesh, so treat it like a firearm. Shoot only into a safe trap and NOT INTO CRUMPLED NEWSPAPERS. The Drozd will shoot right through newspaper with the first few shots.

If you’d like to liven up your airgunning experience, this is one of the neatest guns to come ’round in a long time. It’s worth a try.

171 Responses to “The Drozd – a CO2 submachine gun”

  • Anonymous Says:

    The ad for the Drozhd at Pyramyd specifies steel bb’s. No mention of lead balls. ??

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    David,

    You’ll have to trust me on this one. The Drozd has a .177 caliber rifled steel barrel that is inappropriate for steel BBs. The importer, EAA, apparently asks IZH to send them in with a pack of steel BBs in the box, like I mentioned in the post. I believe that is what confuses retailers about what ammo to use.

    The repairman at EAA definitely told me he gets Drozds back with steel BBs jammed in them, and he acknowledged that a .177 lead ball is the correct ammo to use.

    Also, in the owner’s manual, they refer to lead as a dangerous substance in the warnings section up front. Why do that if you’re only shooting steel?

    The Makarov pistol went the same way. Rifled steel barrel and EAA had them pack steel BBs in the box. It confused a lot of dealers.

    I have tested the Drozd with .177 lead balls. It’s both powerful and accurate. If it were really a BB gun, the larger lead ball would jam in the bore.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Actually “Drozd” in Russian means a bird – “Thrush” not a bumblebee. Those are great! Looks like PyramydAir is reading this blog :-) I can see they already added the round lead balls to the recommended ammo…

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Thanks for the correction. I had just assumed it meant bumblebee.

    Yes, I do believe Pyramyd reads this blog. And remember, they have tens of thousands of pages on their site, so the one I comment on is just a very small part of the whole picture.

    Thanks again,

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    HOW GOOD CAN IT BE IF IT ONLY HOLDS
    30 RNDS. DESIGN A 60 OR 100 RND MAG. THEN IT WILL BE WORTH THE MONEY. PEOPLE ARE SO QUICK TO BUY THE FIRST THING ON THE MARKET. THEN
    THE INDUSTRY GETS SMART AND UPGRADES.

  • wgcherokee Says:

    I wonder how loud this thing is. I read some reviews online. Most people say that it will draw attention if you plink in the backyard. There are a very few others that say the gun is quiet (but maybe they’re comparing it to firearms). I live within the city limits on a third of an acre lot, and with people being so sensitive to guns these days I do not want the police knocking on my door :)

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    wgcherokee,

    The Drozd is quiet compared to a .22 rimfire, but being CO2 it is louder than a spring rifle. I shot it in my backyard without a problem, but I wouldn’t shoot it a lot there.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    The gun isnt that loud, from a distence it sounds like a woodpecker or someone hammering a nail into some wood. HEY BB PELITIER could you tell me were to by the correct BBs for the Drozd. Mine is infact jamming now and lost it’s accuracey becasue of that dam company giving me the wrong BB’S. And you now what makes me really mad I tried to call them and they wont return my messages or anything. Please reply because i stopped shooting my gun untill i have the right BB’s.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Guys, real intrested in this gun for a Varmit control control gun. I need to remove some Garden Dwellers in fairly close ranges 55ft. I believe this may be fun way to conrtol this issue. I was going to put a Lazer on this guy and clear out my problems. My questions is that of power at this rang. If send 3 burst rounds at my target will it have the knock down power to take out my critters. Please advise.

    thanks,

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Drozd for pests control,

    You are stretching the limit at 55 feet with an 8-grain lead ball. The Drozd is powerful and would probably take a rat to that range, but not a squirrel or cottontail.

    Remember that because the Drozd is powered by CO2 all your shooting has to be done at 60 degrees F or higher. Less than that and you will have severe power dropoff – especially in the burst mode.

    I would practice shooting Necco wafers at the range you intend hunting. When you can bust a wafer on command with a three-shot burst, you are ready to try on living things.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Hi, when I was a kid some of the guys had Benjamin air rifles and they used a lead BB. I have one of these that has new seals put in and it woeks great, I would like to know where I can get some of the lead .177 BB’s. Thank you.
    Jack

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Lead BBs,

    If you want .177 balls you are in luck. This website has three different brands:

    http://www.pyramydair.com

    click on ammo, then click .177 round balls.

    There seems to be a worldwide shortage of .22-caliber balls at present, but I’m sure it will work itself out in time.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    BB thanks for your comment on the Varmit hunting with the DROZD. How about 35′ could I wipe a few squirles and cotton tails? I would assume that I should be able to fill them up with a few led balls and if it is fairly accurate at this range so I heard I should be able to put a spot lazer on them and run them out of town.

    Iwill be using this in the summer here in MN USA and it gets fairly warm so I should have some power. Let me put it this way if can you rip a can appart at this range? One last question when you turn the feeder on is it noisy? prior to shooting the gun?

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Drozd for Minn.,

    I like 35 feet better than 55. There is no noise until you pull the trigger. The motor works only on demand and you never hear it over the sound of the discharge.

    I’d say get a Drozd. I think you will enjoy it!

    B.B.

  • b.s. jimmy Says:

    I own this gun and all i can say is GET YOUR HANDS ON ONE NOW!!!! This is the only automatic airgun i know of, or that works correctly, and i have heard recent discussion USA will not be importing more from Russia for some reason. This is NOT a kids toy. I’m surprised its still allowed to be sold. The specs put its FPS at 350-375 i have seen but its more in the range of 500-550 FPS. As for the small clip, you can reload in about 30 seconds with the awesome neat little speed loader it comes with, and if you wanna shelf out another 40 bucks and i recommened you do,, you can get a new clip and have twice the fun.

    This is truly a one of a kind airgun no one should miss. And yes to whoever it was,,, this will tear whatever varmints you got up in your yard HEHEHE

  • Anonymous Says:

    Thanks guys, I am going to get one for myself and put it under the tree so the wife can’t say anything. Check out this video link. Gun looks pretty cool.

    http://media.putfile.com/PickofCompiled

  • Anonymous Says:

    Can the drozd be mounted with the Red dot scope? BSA RD30 SCOPE

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Red dot on Drozd,

    The Drozd comes with a scope rail, and that means an 11mm rail. The picture looks like the BSA RD30 has an 11mm base. The only other kind it could be is a Weaver. I have asked Pyramyd Air to check on this for you because they have the products to look at.

    In short, I believe it can, but let’s let Pyramyd tell us both.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    hello
    I have a local sporting goods store and had asked the sale guy do they have a lead bbs ammo. He said he never heard of lead bbs and recommend me the Copperhead Premium 6000ct .177 BBs. Would you know this is a lead bbs? because it doesnt said what type on the label. the sporting goods store is dicks sporting goods and Dunham sporting goods.
    thanks

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Crosman Copperhead BBs are steel. Take a magnet to them if you wan to test them.

    Right here on nthis website:

    http://www.Pyramydair.com

    they sell three differeent brands of lead balls (they are not BBs). Gamo, Beeman and H&N. The Beemans are the least expensive at this time.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    it says right on this site the Crossman Copperhead are copper coated lead bbs. click on the product and read the description.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    You’re right! That is what it says.

    I believe this description (and it’s on more than one package) is incorrect.

    I am notifying Pyramyd Air to check this out and tell me if Crosman Copperhead BBs are lead ot steel. I have always believed they were steel, and the older Crosman Copperhead BBs I have ARE steel, but I don’t have a new package to confirm that they still are.

    Heck, I’m going to Wally World today with a magnet and I will test a Copperhead package there!

    I will get back to you in this posting!

    Thanks,

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    The product description is incorrect. I have confirmed that Crosman makes only steel BBs. It says that right on the package, which I obtained from Crosman.

    I think the mixup was due to sloppy wording. Crosman calls their BBs copper “coated,” when, as steel, they are plated. Lead balls must be coated, but steel is always plated. Probably some newbie in the company didn’t see a difference between plating and coating and thought coating sounded more descriptive. That is usually the case.

    Anyway, FOR SURE, Crosman Coppergead BBs are copper PLATED steel.

    Thanks for pointing this out. I will inform Pyramyd Air.

    B.B.

  • Ben Says:

    I have a Drozd, and was interested in the lead BB suggestion, particularly in an AUTOMATIC sytem.

    I called EAA and got thru to a repair tech, and asked him about this. He said not to use lead BBs. On further questioning he said that they will deform in the feeding process and jam. He then instructed me to not “go on the Internet, it’s all bunk”. While he may have a point, I’m going to disregard the last statement.

    So why exactly is a .177 rifled steel barrel inappropriate for steel BBs? Aren’t BB guns usually fitted with .177 rifled steel barrels?

    Ben

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Ben,

    I was told exactly the opposite by the EAA repair tech. It seems the company has taken stock of the situation.

    A gun made for BOTH BBs and pellets does not use normal rifling. They use a hexagonal bore section that still leaks around the smaller BB, but does not get ruined when it passes through.

    The Drozd owner’s manual has a warning about LEAD being known as a dangerous substance to the state of California. Why would that be in the manual if the gun shot only steel BBs?

    Also, I have tested the gun with both lead and steel. With steel it shoots all over the place, where with lead it is VERY accurate.

    As for the jamming comment, I have nothing. The EAA tech told me all the guns that jammed were doing so with steel, which is what I reported.

    B.B.

  • Ben Says:

    I don’t know. I contacted a guy named Vance who put together a CD on modding the Drozd. He wrote me that “[Gamos]are not very successful in the Drozd because they are so soft. Some of the guys have purchased bird shot which seems to work bgetter but most just put up with using steel BB’s for the best dependability. The problem with the lead BB’s is two fold: 1. They are expensive as the dickens. 2. The very nature of the Drozd magazine design which holds the 30 rounds vertically in the “train” under spring tension. The top BB is nestled in a slight depression and when the valve is struck by the electromagnet it forces the top BB down and into the breach. This forces all remaining BB’s downward quite violently as well with each shot. They rapidly becomes scored, gouged, flattened, and otherwise tweaked out of shape and will often jam in the magazine or in the barrel…not good. A very few have had no trouble using them but I’ve NEVER been successful in ay of my own guns and quit using them. Giver ‘er a go. The worst that can happen is you’ll have to clear them out.”

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Ben,

    I sounds like the guy you spoke to knew something about the gun. That’s good.

    I tested two different Drozd guns with lead and had no problems. With steel, however, they shot all over the place.

    The power with lead was much improved and so was the accuracy. I still have a problem shooting .172-caliber steel BBs in a .177 caliber rifled barrel. Why do the Russians go to the trouble of rifling the gun if all it’s supposed to shoot is steel? That makes no sense at all.

    The Germans have a target gallery gun that is smoothbore and shoots ball bearings. It’s the Diana model 30. It is quite accurate. And the Daisy 499 is also very accurate without rifling. It doesn’t take rifling to shoot steel BBs. So why do it?

    There is something strange about all of this.

    B.B.

  • Ben Says:

    BB, I agree. The more I’ve read up on this, the more it sounds like lead balls would do well thru the barrel, but the feed system is another matter. I ordered the CD for a few bucks from Vance, it might shed light, I dunno. Supposed to contain mods about increasing ROF, adding a FA switch to the burst mode, converting to paintball tanks, barrel extensions, how to best dye the yello parts, and all sorts of things. I proably won’t do any of them, except maybe change the yellow to OD green, but should be worth a look.

    Cheers,
    Ben

  • Anonymous Says:

    Well guys I just ordered my gun and I going to shot lead through it to begin with and I will report back with how it performs. I bought the Gamo balls. I believe the best way to find out is to just give it a run. I would rather use the lead in a rifled barrel if I can and it one would think it would fire at a better velocitty. I will let you all know. I do plan on adding the tank for an air source as well as an extended barrel when one becomes available. I can’t believe someone is selling them already. Longer barrel would increase the power well enough to clear out the Garden in one sweep:)

  • Anonymous Says:

    Well, I got the gun and she works fairly nicely. Little louder then expected. Sounds like a nail gun. Gamo balls shoot good through it but you really have to be careful with the little guys they bend/dent out of shape real easy. I can see if your not how they could jam the gun because they are so soft. Very expensive as well holly crap. 5 bucks for 250. I would like somebody to explain how to unjam one if it does happen to me. I am assuming it would just get lodged in the barrel and i could poke it out with a gun cleaner rod. I plan on shooting lead because they are very accurate and I don’t want to wreck the rifling in the barrel. I put a scope on the gun right away and at 35 feet I am getting about silver dollar grouping. This is shooting one at a time and you will get some flyers. Auto I can eat up a paper plate very quickly. Over all fairly accurate though for CO2 BB Gun. Eats the CO2 like it is free!!! Need to put a paint ball tank on this ASAP. Sending off for the CD I can’t believe somebody isn’t marketing this already! The clips are already seperate!! Would also like a longer barrel. Gun shoot clear through a 1/8 sheet of wood with no problems at 35 feet. Has power and I am guessing enough to take out the Garden criters.

    Keep on eye on the net for barrels for this gun. A little longer barrel and a tank for air and you would have a real 100% winner. Overall satisfied with the purchase. Santa was good even though I had to wait a week after Xmas to get it. Please post a cheaper place to buy lead balls. I can see right now this summer I will need a buck load of them.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Gamo balls,

    Thank you for such a detailed report. That’s how we all learn.

    As far as unjamming, I would do it the way you suggest. I never had a problem, though.

    If you buy your Gamo balls in quantity from Pyramyd Air I bet you can save some money. And they are already selling the Beeman Perfect Rounds (H&N) for a couple dollars less!

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Where can one order the CD from “Vance”. For the upgrades and such….

  • Anonymous Says:

    I just ordered this gun. Where can I find the modifications CD that some people have mentioned?

  • Yarzak Says:

    Other manufacturers, besides IZH, have barrels apparently capable of steel on steel, the following from the Daisy website “The 617X features a truly unique 6-shot rotary clip capable of housing .177 (4.5mm) Pellets or BBs. Six shots can be fired from this CO2 powered semi-automatic as fast as the trigger can be pulled. The rapid fire fun makes it the perfect target training gun for any application. The maximum shooting distance of the 617X is 280 yards with a maximum muzzle velocity of 485fps from a rifled steel barrel.” Other manufacturers rifled barrels require the lead BBs ie Gamo P-23.

    BB have you figured this out??

    Ray

    BTW-
    How does one pronounce Drozd?
    & per previous commenter its worth a kool look @

    http://azure.bbboy.net/straferbbmachinegunownersgroup-viewforum?forum=10

  • Yarzak Says:

    Almost forgot, not sure how I found this but check it out:

    http://media.putfile.com/PickofCompiled

    Ray

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Ray,

    The steel barrels that can handle both pellets and BBs are usually hexagonal rather than lands and grooves. It works, but the excessive windage between the BB and the bore makes for poor accuracy.

    B.B.

  • richard Says:

    does anyone do repairs to the drozd, EAA were total jerks about fixing mine. I can be contacted at zmason@mindspring.com

  • Anonymous Says:

    i just ordered a drozd,ive converted my condor to an external tank and use helium to give me 1750fps!takes me out to 200yards! does anybody have a plan on how to convert the drozd to an external tank? you can write me at krell44@aol.com

  • McCyberChris Says:

    Hi, I live in the UK, and have had the drozd for a few months now. Im feeling a bit cheated, as the dealer sold it for me for £200, which is probably way too expensive. The version I have is only semi auto. Does anybody know how to convert it to fire fully auto or in a burst fire atleast!

    Cheers

    mc_cyberchris@hotmail.com

  • Anonymous Says:

    where can i get this vidio on convervions to the drozd?
    krell44@aol.com

  • Anonymous Says:

    Hello. I live in nj and i wanted to know if i need to have a permit for them to send me this gun. or if im not allowed at all :).
    Thank
    You

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    The state of New Jersey requires you to purchase airguns through licensed gun dealers, after you obtain an airgun permit. I imagine your local police department gets involved, at some point.

    B.B.

  • sgtusarmy Says:

    I recently purchased a Drozd and absolutly love it! a couple of the short comings that i have read on web reviews stated that the butt stock of the gun came off too easily i have found a simple solution to this. a chemical spray glue made by the 3M company called super 77. when this glue is sprayed it dries to a semi tacky substance texture perfect for holding the butt stock and butt stock extender in place semi permanantly. the only question i have is how to dye it black, I dont want to use standard spray paint because obviously it would rub off over a short period of time, can somone help me with this?

  • sgtusarmy Says:

    I recently purchased a Drozd and absolutly love it! a couple of the short comings that i have read on web reviews stated that the butt stock of the gun came off too easily i have found a simple solution to this. a chemical spray glue made by the 3M company called super 77. when this glue is sprayed it dries to a semi tacky substance texture perfect for holding the butt stock and butt stock extender in place semi permanantly. the only question i have is how to dye it black, I dont want to use standard spray paint because obviously it would rub off over a short period of time, can somone help me with this?

  • Anonymous Says:

    I do not understand, Could you just hold down the trigger on this bb gun and have all of the BB’s shoot out like a fully automatic gun. Some websights say that it is Semi- Auto and other say that it is fully-auto.

    Please replly by simple leaving a comment,
    THANX!!!

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    The Drozd is full-auto, but only burst-fire. That means full-auto for a limited number of shots (3 or 6, as it turns out). That prevents the CO2 that powers the BBs from freezing the gun’s action.

    There are firearms with burst-fire full-auto, too, so this is a legitimate firing mode.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Thank you for answering my question. Do you happen to know of any other fully auto BB Guns that shoot .177 bb’s?

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    I don’t know of any other BB guns that shoot full auto, but there was a Gatling gun that did. As I recall it put out 4000 to 6000 BBs a minute. It was hand-held, smaller than a mini gun, but modeled after one, and it had to use air to let the mechanism continue to run without freezing. The cost was in the $2,500 region and you might still find one on an aution site..

    Of course it shot steel BBs, which are not .177. They are about 0.172 at most. The only .177 balls that exist to my knowledge are round lead balls made by H&N and the Shark company.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    I can’t afford that kind of deal. I am probably going to get the Drozd. thanx for the help you have given me. By the way, have you been watching LSU lately? they beet Duke and then beet Texas!!!

  • Reaper Says:

    Could anyone please tell me if .177 COPPER PLATED steel BB will work with the Drozd?

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Reaper,

    You CAN shoot steel BBs in the Drozd, but they will destroy the rifling in the barrel.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Okay, guys I just purchased two items for my drodze. 14 inch riffled barrel extention and a bulk co2 adapter. I have read all over that the longer barrel will increase it to around 650 fps. The bulk co2 adapter is here: http://www.cooper-t.com/airguns2.html. I plan on slapen a 9oz paintball tank on it. I will post back and let everyone know how it improves the gun. I do not and will not shoot steel through this gun. Barrel riffling is what makes this gun worth the money. Even with a super short barrel it accurate for BB gun. I know this will improve with the new barrel. My main funtion of this gun is to take care of some yard diggers that I have running around. It brings a whole new definition to shock and yaw. The 12 gram co2 is a joke. The first sleave and then power starts to drop off quite a bit. Overall a very cool fun gun to own. If you want to be that guy that has something nobody else does this is it. I would break in the nieghbors though. I told mine I am building a Paintball gun. In fact I left the gun that goofy yellow on purpose no need to scare anyone. It just a toy after all :) They see me sweeping my yard with this thing off my deck and think nothing of it.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Oh ya forgot to mention if you are the guy that keeps spending the 4 bucks to shoot the star out and you know you can never win but you do it anyway because you can’t help yourself. This is the gun for you. Do be careful this gun will do damage. It is not an air soft gun. It will rip a can in half with no problems. Common sense applies. Shoot down towards the ground from an elevated position if possible. Be aware of what is beyond your shot. People that do stupid things with this will wreck it for us all. If you the have to read the directions to use your toaster oven or blender please buy something else.

    If you have tried chemicals, traps, and still have problems with the stripped rodents that leave mounds of crap in yard. This will solve your problems. I am not sure but I think thier friends leave just out of fear.

  • Anonymous Says:

    if you want a full auto bb gun that shoots steel bbs (172)cal you can do what i did i made one for my self and it shoots 12,000 rounds per min use,s compressed air so it wont freez up and i have 125 round mags for it :) hehehe.

  • Anonymous Says:

    What is the best source of a bulk tank supply to add to my new DROZD toy? I also found a BSA laser on ebay. Is it worth 20.00 for this laser sight.Any thing else I’m missing?

  • Anonymous Says:

    I just bought this and an extra mag. THe only upgrade I’d be interested in is the CO2 tank adapter since I play so much paintball anyway. But I found these and thought they would be the best solution for this gun. Copper coated lead BB’s:

    ROUND BALL Copper (4.50 mm) by Haendler & Natermann

    https://pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/pellet.pl?pellet_id=37

  • Anonymous Says:

    At May 01, 2006 1:07 AM, Anonymous said…
    Oh ya forgot to mention if you are the guy that keeps spending the 4 bucks to shoot the star out and you know you can never win but you do it anyway because you can’t help yourself. This is the gun for you.

    To anonymous…. You CAN shoot the star out…start your shots at the BOTTOM (just below the star) and shoot a circle AROUND it. The secret is to “cut” the star out, not obliterate it.

  • Anonymous Says:

    I’d like to clarify a few things about
    the Drozd, specifically regarding the
    ammo to shoot with this gun. First,
    without question steel BB’s will severely
    damage the counter bore in the barrel’s
    breech after only 5-6 thousand rounds.
    The reason is not so much the wear and
    tear on the rifling as it is the valve head on the magazine which has a small’indent’ at the top in order to ‘capture’ the BB in battery for each shot. Without this indent, the BB’s would simply roll out the barrel without being fired. When the gun is fired, the air forces the BB out of ‘battery’ at an angle which is not aligned with the barrel. The BB then just ricochet’s into the bore. Successive BB’s simply hammer away at the barrel breech until they ultimately cause the barrel to become unrepairable, and nearly impossible to remove.

    Lead BB’s will not destroy the barrel,
    but do create a whole new set of problems for this gun. First, the ‘indent’ in the valve body severely distorts the soft lead balls prior to entering the rifling, and secondly the impact on the forcing cone or ‘counter bore’ ahead of the rifling further distorts them. Add to this the fact that due to the rapid rate of fire, the BB’s become pretty banged up just working up through the
    magazine. The net result is progressively decreasing accuracy through the full 30 shots. The first
    three might group on a nickel at 50′,
    after that they can stray up to a foot!

    Another issue with the lead BB’s is the
    fact that the factory barrel is rifled
    to .174 land to land, and not to American .177 bore diameter. This means the standard .177 (4.5mm) round lead balls available in this country are even further distorted after passing through this barrel. Perhaps PyramidAir could make some arrangements
    to stock some of the 4.4mm H&N lead ball listed in their European catalog
    to help with this problem.

    The solutions to making the gun work
    accurately with lead ball involve
    rebarreling to .177, and modifying the magazine to minimize the damage to the BB’s if you hope to maintain accuracy.
    Lead BB’s also stick in the barrel when
    CO2 pressures drop low enough. I’ve
    concluded that 30 rounds is about it
    for a cartridge if you don’t want a
    fouled barrel.

    This is a fun gun to shoot…just needs
    the right ammo/barrel combination to
    work right.

  • Anonymous Says:

    I’ve done a conversion of drozd to full auto (not bursts). vic20owner@yahoo.com

  • benoit Says:

    i totally agree with you when it comes to rebarreling the drozd to a perfect .177, but how to avoit the gamo lead bbs to be indented or deformed while in the magazine ??? and i still cant understand how mr. pelletier shoots lead bbs from his drozd with no problem..

    do you think that lead bbs diameters slightly vary according to their brand ( personnaly i use gamo lead balls)???
    the same problem arises with the baikal mp654 makarov , and some people resolved the problem by making sure that the first bb to be inserted in the magazine is steel and then the others can be lead bbs , and by doing this you avoid jamming….i tried it and still got jammed bbs…i’m lost…
    please give me your comment

    thanks

  • Anonymous Says:

    Hi BB,
    I just purchased a Drodz and am looking to add either a lazer or red dot, tactical light or scope on the gun. I am doing many mods to the gun including a longer barrel for accuracy at distance what would be my best move to complement it? I am also consitering the Gammo Varmit Hunter kit for Shadow… what do you think my best option is?

  • Anonymous Says:

    You guys are saying shoot this lead ball and some are saying shoot steel bb. Does anyone out there know how to read an owners manual? It says right in the manual under Basic Data 2.1 the gun is disigned to use 4.5mm steel bb intended for air weapon.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    The owners manual was written by EAA, the importer. There is no such thing as a 4.5mm steel BB. They are 4.3mm, but the person who wrote the manual doesn’t know that.

    The manual also contains a warning against the dangers of lead. Why put that in a manual for a BB gun?

    This gun is rifled in such a way that ONLY lead is to be used. The bore is also troo large for 4.3mm.

    Those are the reasons we say to use lead, besides the fact that lead works and steel jams the gun. Lead is accurate and steel isn’t. Lead is powerful and steel is less so.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Hey BB,

    Just got a DROZB and can’t get the Crossman CO2 cartridge in. The steel plunger from the bottom of the mag is just a bit tall. When I close the lever to lock the CO2 it just leaks. Anyone reported this? I guess I could file it down or the CO2 cartiage a bit. Any suggestions?

  • Anonymous Says:

    Nevermind! I figured it out, I am such a dummy. Did not have the CO2 lever all the way down..Just shot 2 full mags..shoots great will do more tests over the weekend I am impressed.

  • Thomas Washington Says:

    I hope people are still checking this but here’s my problem I also had a hard time with the crossman C02 cartridges. they were a bit too long it seemed but I finally got it in and locked it in place no problem. Until recently it worked great, now everytime I put one in the clip it leaks c02 out pretty bad. hissing the whole time. and my other clip does the same thing, any suggestions on how to fix this problem? I really don’t want to have to buy new clips since they’re like 50 dollars each or something around that.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Thomas,

    We check all the blog postings all the time.

    If the CO2 is coming out fast that’s a sign of a torn seal. From your description, I suspest the flat seal that the powerlet goes against.

    There is no easy fix for this. The seal has to be replaced. But I wonder why you had difficulty inserting the powerlets to begin with. I hope you didn’t use nitrogen cylinders because they will dry out the seals inside the gun.

    Have you been putting a drop of perllgunoil on the tip of every new powerlet? That oil (and ONLY that oil) lubricates all the internal seals of your gun.

    Pyramyd Air can repair your two magazines so they don’t leak. Call them at 888-262-4867.

    Also they are now offering an adaptor to run your Drozd on a paintball tank instead of powerlets.

    B.B.

  • Thomas Washington Says:

    I’m using C02 powerlets but the Crossman brand tanks are just a tiny bit longer than the Daisy brand ones.

    one of them is working again now. I think it may just be the C02 cartridge

    thanks for telling me about the perllgunoil I’ll definately look into that.

    Thanks for your time!

    Thomas

  • Anonymous Says:

    BB,
    Did you ever try one of those freon powered “m-19a” or “annihilator” guns from the ’70s or ’80′s?

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    You are referring to the Larc. No, I never tried one, but I’ve seen a few shot. They work well and are very quiet.

    B.B.

  • Shukin Says:

    I have had issues with Crossman CO2 as well, What I do now is I prechceck each CO2 capsule with a quick check to see if they fit in the Drozd Magazine or not. It is not consistant with the Crossmand brand because in a case of 40 only one is 4 did not fit. The ones that do not fit work great in my other CO2 pistols with more room. Yes it is true there is a deffinate inconsistancy in size from cartridge to cartride from Crossman. I have used other brands without incident.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Shukin,

    Thanks for the heads up.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    I would like to purchase a Drozd, but discussions like this confuse me.

    “B.B. Pelletier said…
    You’ll have to trust me on this one. The Drozd has a .177 caliber rifled steel barrel that is inappropriate for steel BBs
    The repairman at EAA definitely told me he gets Drozds back with steel BBs jammed in them, and he acknowledged that a .177 lead ball is the correct ammo to use.”

    Then why does the manual specifically say to use steel balls? Why should a manufacturer make such a fundamental error?

    “Also, in the owner’s manual, they refer to lead as a dangerous substance in the warnings section up front. Why do that if you’re only shooting steel?”

    Well, warnings are dictated by law. Not logic. Warnings such a health and safety tend to be included because laws state all products of a certain type must have certain warnings.
    By the same logic of the manual being right, why wouldn’t the manual say lead OR steel if that was the real intension?

    And that warning is irrelevant to the rest of the world. It seems that it is only in the US version of the manual. The original manufacturer’s manual can be found here: http://www.baikalinc.ru/en/company/123.html
    Says absolutely nothing about lead. ONLY steel.

    And I don’t know where one anonymous poster came up with the reference to 4.4mm bbs. The manual clearly says 4.5mm.

    I like the idea of the Drozd, but have no desire to end up with a lemon that is picky with ammo or requires much more expensive ammo such as the lead or steel balls.

    Can anyone point to a source that gives the tolerances and differences between .177 steel and .177 lead?

    Then another little inconsistency in this discussion copper plated/coated balls. Seeing as the copper would be interacting with the rifling, what would it matter if the internal metal were lead or steel?

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Steel balls,

    Okay, once again, steel BBs are size 4.3mm NOT 4.5mm. And rifling is not for steel, unless it is polygonal. Steel BBs are 0.172 to 0.173″ in diameter.

    The plating on a steel BB is only microns thick, so the steel does, in fact, “interact” with the rifling.

    Lead balls come in all sizes, but .177 caliber balls are all 4.5mm.

    I have said all I can about this subject. If you want to shoot steel BBs in your Drozd, that’s your decision. I have tried it with both and lead works much better.

    I did read the Russian manual and they have definitely changed the wording. It used to say lead balls only. Perhaps EAA, the current importer, requested that change.

    I don’t have an old Drozd manual but I do own an MP654K Makrov pistol that is made by the same company and has a rifled barrel also. It uses a similar feed mechanism in the magazine and the manual (which is 8 years old) say to use lead only. It specifically states that the use of steel shot will void the warranty.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Note:
    The cuircuit boards in the DROZD (to control the solenoid, etc) have components soldered to them. Solder contains LEAD (especially since lead-free solder was not in popular useage when the DROZD first came out). This could easily explain why the manual contains the California Proposition 65 warning. ANYTHING with lead has to carry that warning.

    BB Pelletier: Have you considered that the manual changes, the packing-in of steel BBs, the recommendation in the manual, all of it- is due to the fact that Baikal changed to a different barrel (one suited to steel BBs) after they started exporting to the USA?
    Do you obtain early units from Pyramid? Maybe later units had barrels more suited for the US.

    Perhaps the best solution would be posting a list of determining factors, and let people determine on their own what kind of ammo to shoot; for example:
    Pictures showing the differences between the different types of rifling, micrometer measurements, etc…

  • Anonymous Says:

    PS why doesn’t Pyramid sell the bulk fill kit as an add-on? I already own a DROZD and would like to purchase the kit- looking at it you can tell it doesn’t involve any changes to the gun itself.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Thanks for that info,

    The Drozd is three years old, so the lead-free solder based on age doesn’t cut it. I was using lead-free solder in the 1970s.

    I’m sure Pyramyd will off the kit soon, but first they have to catch up with demand for the guns!

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Yes, lead-free solder did exist, but no electronics manufacturer would willingly use it until the laws started popping up (Prop 65 in CA, RoHS rules in Europe, etc) because it was more difficult to work with and not as well suited to electronics as plumbing.
    Trust me, Baikal (or their supplier) was NOT using lead-free solder on their PCBs in the late 1990s-early 2000s. The warning applies (at least) to the solder. Whether or not they intended the gun to shoot lead ball is a secondary issue. It sure does seem like they did initially design it for lead.

  • dlb Says:

    Now this is interesting – http://imzcorp.com/en/info/12867.html

    The MP-661K “Drozd” can employ various power sources: 12-gram and larger capacity CO2 cylinders or pre-charged air cylinders. The hopper-type super-high capacity magazine accommodates up to 400 BB’s in caliber 4.5 mm (.177).

    * I’d really like to see EAA carry a more extensive selection of Baikal air arms (e.g. the MP-532(T) and their PCP rifles). Anyone know of a Canadian distributor who carries their full line?

  • Anonymous Says:

    My preliminary tests indicate that beeman perfect rounds are too large to perfectly fit in the drozd barrel or magazine and may be unsafe to use. Perhaps the gamo rounds are smaller?

  • Anonymous Says:

    Pyramyd Air sells the bulkfill kit for the Drozd

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    There may be a few ten-thousandths difference between the Beeman and Gamo round balls, but they are supposed to be the same size.

    B.B.

  • Shukin Says:

    Hey has anyone else tried the H&N copper jacketed lead balls in 4.5mm? I find they are fantastic, accurate, powerful and a very low jam issue. The Beeman perfect rounds are good but a little to soft for the magazine as it is always the last one or two that foul. With the copper jackets from H&N success from jamming is a lot better, it still happens as but not nearly as often as again they are “LEAD” not “STEEL”. Myself i prefer the lead over steel just for that accuracy.

    Shukin

  • Anonymous Says:

    My 3 year old Drozd (and Makarov, for that matter) wouldnt run on Gamo lead BB’s. Crosman Copperheads work fine, but I had trouble with Daisy’s, which were oversized and jammed in the barrel and acted as a locked detent preventing removal of the magazine. The rounds in the magazine prevent pushing the stuck BB back. The magazine shroud can be pivoted permitting access to the magazine follower spring with a dental pick or similar tool so the follower can be retracted, along with the remaining BB’s in the mag. NOW the mag can be removed and the barrel cleared.
    The 30 round mag isn’t a problem, that’s about par for real submachine gun firearms, and at 600 rpm and 6 shot burst, it reminds you that movies are just movies- 5 medium bursts require a reload. That’s why they sell spares (we have 3 in all).
    The speedloader is the nuts, it works on the Makarov too. For best efficiency, clip it on the mag, then tilt to fill the half round portion of the speedloader, then tilt to roll BB’s not in the half round trough away or they’ll obstruct the flow. Now retract the follower with a thumbnail, tilt, and watch the stack of BB’s flow into the mag. Repeat ’til full. Now fill the other mags. OK, now ROCK AND ROLL!
    If your chosen CO2 is a tight fit in the mag, there’s language in the manual, I think, about adjusting the locked down length of the CO2 ram by pushing out the pin that prevents the ram adjustment from turning, adjusting the length, then pushing the pin back in. See page 10.
    As regards lead warnings in the manual, it’s stock language for all their airguns, like the dry fire warning for the IZH46.
    Love my Drozd!
    Fort Worth Silhouette Shooter

  • Anonymous Says:

    CANADIAN AIRGUN REGIMENTAL HEADQUARTERS

    Completed 100000th projectile,(steel,copper jacket), through 1 year old model. Accuracy continues to be a less than 1inch grouping at 30feet. Power is a consistant 561fps for the first 11 rounds.
    A well used gun continues to get spectacular accuracy with some extreme punch.
    Representatives of our organization recently spent a great deal of time with Baikal associates within Canada. All Baikal,EAA,and Drozd. related individuals indicated that the proper and only ammo to use with the MP661K is STEEL. The barrels will not sustain any damage from steel projectiles. These barrels are specialy designed for STEEL Shot. LEAD projectiles will eventualy ruin your gun. Lead is soft. It deforms, fragments, and is not made for a high powered speed machine pistol like the MP661K. Your Mag. will cause the balls to get deformed. Bits of lead will remain inside the mag. causing a future jam situation. These bits of lead will also deposit around key areas within the gun after repeated use.
    I understand the concern for the rifled barrel, however, my self as well as 9 other Drozd. owners have been completely satisified by the company that these barrels are made for steel projectiles as is the entire gun. TAKE NOTE: We fired 100000 STEEL projectiles, WITHOUT 1 STOPPAGE. No seal leaks, no change in accurracy or power.

    C.O.
    Canadian Airgun Regiment

  • Anonymous Says:

    Canadian Airgun Regiment Addition

    Lubrication of the STEEL projectiles before firing, will help increase fps as well as maintain a lubricated system.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Canadian Airgun Regiment,

    Thanks for your input. 100K shots is impressive.

    I will soon test a Drozd with both steel and lead and will show the accuracy/power results in this blog.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Canadian Airgun Regiment
    B.B. Looking forward to your results.
    Further to previous information. We shoot together 4 nights a week, different weopons etc. The 1 Drozd is now over 100000 projectiles. We have several over 60000 as well. And I believe all are over 50000. We know this because we buy our shot in 6000 increments which are marked and documented for study. When a gun has completed 6000, the bottle is placed in a register. Most are over 10 bottles. We inspect these guns on a regular basis, barrel lights and follow thread calipers, etc. Not 1 gun, shows any signs of wear. Not 1 mag from any of us, and some of us have several, has had the slightest leak, or malfunction. In Short. This gun is an absolute GEM. Durable, powerful, and dependable.
    Rumors also of some security teams, for celebrity estates are using, MP661K for defence of these areas. This has NOT been confirmed however. If someone has insight please feel free to respond.

    C.O.
    Canadian Airgun Regiment

  • Nuglor Says:

    Yee Haw!!!! Just got my Drozd yesterday. This thing ROCKS!!! Using compressed air in a bulk tank is incredible. No freeze up, no loss of power. Our buddies from up North state, “Rumors also of some security teams, for celebrity estates are using, MP661K for defence of these areas.” I can just see the headlines now… Pissed Off Patrolman Pops Papparazzi With Bumblebee! Oh, that’s rich.

    By the way, I’ve already received my mod board which will turn my Bee into a fully automatic 1200 RPM monster. All I need now is the longer barrel and watch out squirrels!

  • Anonymous Says:

    Who are the Canadian Airgun Regiment and do you have a web site? I am Canadian too and have never heard of this organization. Just to let you know shooting steel is great for no jams but lead is a whole lot more accurate. When shooting full Auto shoot steel. When just shooting Semi Auto lead works fantastic and very accurate. NO JAMS. It is plain and simply the full Auto mode that jams due to the speed of the magazine ramming up the lead to the breach. Any how I do agree totaly with you that steel will not jam and I never had any issue using steel. but the spread is no where near as tight as LEAD.

  • Anonymous Says:

    The Canadian Airgun Regiment is a group of currently serving and X Canadian Forces personel who are extreme Airgun users. We meet in several locations throughout Central and Northern Ontario for testing and massive plinking sessions.

  • Nuglor Says:

    O.K….. I just installed the full auto mod board last night. OMG, this thing is SICK. Between the N size batteries and the HPA tank, this thing is just incredible. I can’t wipe this silly grin off my face. I was surprised how easy it was to completely dismantle and re-assemble this thing. It makes it easy to swap out barrels and do cleaning.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Hello, I’m about to get a Drozd and I’ve read all the blog posts here. Where is this modification CD that was mentioned earlier? I will also check out the bbboy.com message board to.

    Where does one get the full auto mod board that was mentioned by the person above me? How much faster will adding a paint gun bottle make the Drozd? And, lastly, where can you buy the longer barrels? lol, that is all, thanks!

    Aaron

  • Anonymous Says:

    hey so your saying i cant shoot copper head bbs i have to get lead ones???? replie please

  • Anonymous Says:

    Steel will wear out the rifling in the barrel, however, the feed mechanism is designed for and best works with steel. Lead will not destroy the barrel but it may present problems with the mags feed mech, or may end up stuck in the barrel during low power. Also with lead you need to clean the gun much more often. Lubricated steel shot will cause minimal barrel damage and will work the feed mech well.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Copperhead BBs,

    You can use Crosman Copperhead BBs.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Crossman Copperheads are steel.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Though you can get 500 rounds of Beeman Perfect Rounds for $8.25 on pyramydair.com, I was looking at a Cabela’s catalog and they have 750 rounds of Gamo .177 lead BB’s (8.2 grain)for $8.99. Even though it may be a little more work to pick up a Cabela’s catalog and order through them, it’s still like you’re getting 250 BB’s for $0.74. I hope some of you can find this helpful.

  • Anonymous Says:

    And one more thing. I was thinking about buying a Drozd and I have so far found this to be the most helpful place for Drozd info. Thank’s B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    My Drozd quit firing. I hope you can help because EAA is no help. My friend and I have shot about 2000 rounds through our Drozd. Now it does not fire. It clicks and you hear the trigger micro switch clicking but no firing of the electromagnet. I called EAA and the repair guy treated me like a moron so no help there. I have put a volt meter on the wires going to the electro and at most get about 1.8 volts. It is never the same. First trigger pull one value, then the next is another value and so on. The big question is which item do I replaxce? The circuit board or the electro? Every once in a while the electro fires and that was the original problem, but it went away. It acted up last weekend but we shot all afternoon with only a few no-fires. Then the next weekend we got ready to shoot and nothing but clicks. We have made sure the batteries are new and again only once did the electro fire. Do you have a idea of which it might be and how to trouble shoot this thing.

    BTW I have put a nine volt battery to the electro and nothing happens

    Thanks for your help

    David

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    David,

    If Eaa is no help, what about the dealer? That’s what they get paid for.

    B.B.

  • tlhonmey Says:

    I recently purchased a Drozd, and having examined the construction I also will reccommend lead shot.

    You will get more power out of lead BBs. This is not just because the barrel seals better around the larger lead ball, but also because the passage up through the magazine is sized for the lead ball. It will not seal nearly as well around steel shot, and so you’ll lose a fair amount of power.

    The divot at the top of the magazine which prevents the BB from falling out is also sized for lead. A steel BB will have considerably more spring tension to overcome.

    There are a few caveats however.

    Fortunately I ordered two magazines, so I noticed when one would feed lead BBs and the other would not. Upon careful examination of the non-feeding magazine, I found that there were a few burrs inside the head, which looked to be the result of a careless workman forcing the bit. Since I’m lazy I didn’t take it all apart and hone the passage properly, instead I got a couple of my engraving tools and reached in and scraped the burrs off the inside. Since then I have had practically no problems with lead pellets feeding.

    I say practically no issues because not all BBs are created equal. I have purchased only one tin of the Gamo BBs… I highly doubt I shall purchase another. Yes, they’re cheap, but about one in ten is just malformed enough to not feed smoothly. Pulling the magazine out and smacking it a couple times usually does convince it to work, but the higher quality balls don’t seem to have this problem.

    Anyway, it’s rather a nice, reliable little gun, and the valving arrangement is simple enough to allow those who wish to experiment to do so without too much fear of causing irrepairable damage. Two very nice qualities in an airgun as far as I’m concerned.

    There doesn’t happen to be such a thing as a refillable powerlet does there? I like not having the external tank, but I’m getting tired of throwing the things away. I believe I could make a refillable one, but if there’s a commercial one available I would prefer not to waste my time.

    Also, from what I hear this thing performs quite well with compressed air, and according to some even does well with higher pressures. Again, I would prefer not to deal with bulky external tanks and hoses. There don’t happen to be any companies making powerlets filled with things other than CO2 that would be an improvement are there? I’ve seen butane and oxygen, but I don’t think either one would be the best choice as one would be a bit too inflammable and the other would make the inside of the gun rust…

  • Anonymous Says:

    how do i get the cd from vance about modifications

  • Anonymous Says:

    Hey B.B.,

    Thanks for all of your help! I know it must take a while to maintain such a large blog, so, I just wanted to express my appreciation for your sedulous efforts!

    By the way, I got a Drozd and it was certainly worth the money!

    Thanks again,
    Kameron H.

  • Anonymous Says:

    I have watched this Blog for sometime now and personally myself I have issues with this Lead/Steel Debate. I have tried on the Lead side Gamo, Beeman Perfect Rounds and H&N Copper Jacket Lead Balls. The latter of the three performed the best (Fewest JAMS). Now when shooting Steel there is totally NO JAM ISSUE at all (The Canadian Air Gun Regiment has it RIGHT). I would have to say that the I agree that Lead does come off a little more power full but on the Chrony it is not much more maybe 5%. faster. The accuracy is much better using Lead but then if you are out in the field shooting FULL AUTO BURST the Lead LOOSE BIG because when you are shooting and your gun JAMS when you need it the most LEAD will leave you STRANDED. I from this day forward will continue to use Steel and be contempt with the Spread of Pattern. I will just shoot more than guys shooting LEAD (SHOOTING LOTS IS WHAT THIS GUN IS ALL ABOUT ANYWAY)

    And this is my two cents.

    Take care and shoot lots

    Shukin

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Shukin,

    Thanks for your observations. Again I state that I tend to shoot semiautomatic because I go for accuracy. I suppose that’s why I’ve never experienced a jam with lead.

    I think you are right – that the Drozd is all about full-auto fire, so my use is somewhat odd.

    B.B.

  • jim1960 Says:

    I just ordered a Drozd today. Read a lot of comments regarding using steel vs. lead balls in the Drozd. I can’t claim to be a BB expert, but I do work in the materials/non-destructive testing field specializing in metallurgical defects. It is a given that lead is a soft self lubricating metal, and steel is not…. but aren’t you anti-steel BB guys missing the fact that these steel BB’s have soft malleable external metal coatings such as copper or zinc? I image that the original purpose of the non-ferrous coatings is for preventing the steel from rusting, but it would also have barrel protecting properties. If memory serves, military armor piercing rounds with either tungsten or depleted uranium cores are jacketed in copper to protect the firearm’s rifled bore. One would think the buffer of copper or zinc (I plan on using zinc BB’s with mine as it is softer than copper) around the steel BB would be what interfaces with the Drozd’s bore? I think the lead BB users are getting better accuracy because of the vibration damping properties of lead (less rattling around as it is being propelled out the airgun’s barrel. Any body else out there think my above thoughts may be plausible? Jim in BC, Canada

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Jim,

    The copper and zinc coating on a steel BB is about 2 microns thick. It has no bore protective properties whatsoever. It’s just there to stop the rusting.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    If it is there, even at 2 microns thick, how can it not protect to some extent? Is it not what is in contact with the bore? Teflon is only applied in a few micron thick layer on materials and offers total protection. I wonder what the Rockwell “C” hardness of the average steel cored BB is compared to the barrel on the Drozd? I have a hardness tester but it is for testing the hardness of flat not spherical objects. Maybe when someone actually posts a picture of damage I’ll buy it. Until then I’ll remain a skeptic, especially since there are groups who are ex military firearms experts who have actually fired over 60,000 rounds through a Drozd who say after extensive teardown inspections say there is zero visible damage. I doubt I’ll put that many through mine. Jim

  • Anonymous Says:

    jim i dont clame to know all about it but i have made my own full auto bb gun and it had a barrel rated for steel bbs and after 75000 rounds it has all most no rifleing left just my thought

    use lead balls………..

  • Anonymous Says:

    CANADIAN AIRGUN REGIMENTAL UPDATE

    Feb. Training session, Thunder Bay Ontario.
    Best results with the MP661K were when the first 30 rounds used were Lead. The remainder were lubricated steel shot. This takes advantage of the early CO2 power, and as well decreases any jamming effect that may arise from reduced power.
    9 Drozd’s were deployed at this session. All were loaded and fired in this manner. All of these guns are in excellent condition.
    These guns were used for, Advance to contact, room clearing, and weopons support training manouvers, by presently serving, and x military personel. This gun is ideal for such tasks.

  • Anonymous Says:

    I found Barrels for this un but if you know any better sites please tell
    http://www.mp661k.com/pages/sales1.htm

    When this gun jams how hard is it to unjam

  • Anonymous Says:

    also does the 20oz tank fit in the case?

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    What case might that be?

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    The one that you offer

  • Anonymous Says:

    also how hard is this gunto unjam if it jams

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Drozd buyer,

    I am not Pyramyd Air, but I went to their website and looked at several cases under the accessories linked to this gun. None of them look long enough to fit the Drozd with the CO2 tank attached.

    If you want a hard case that fits, I recommend you talk to a customer service representative at Pyramyd Air.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Jamming,

    A jam can be either easy or difficult to clear, depending on how many balls or BBs are stuffed into the barrel. Remove the magazine and clear from the muzzle with a .177 cleaning rod.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    that being said you only sell the upgraded version with the case bur 20 oz bottles are kind of big

  • Anonymous Says:

    sorry i re-read your comment I expected it not to fir but if you take it off I guess it would fit.

    Thank you for your time

  • Anonymous Says:

    Some thing that bugs me though is that you do not offer a option to buy the upgraded 20oz gun with out a case because I am starting to add up the price and it is only getting bigger

  • Anonymous Says:

    With the 20oz CO2 is it possible to remove the container after firing a little then put it back on a use it some more and so on or does it have to stay on in storage?
    again thank you

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    The large aluminum case does fit the 20-ounce tank.

    Yes, the tank can be removed at any time with minimal gas loss (one shot).

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    thank you

  • Anonymous Says:

    Rob

    I liked the yellow because the people around wont get to nervious. Is the yellow still around or at least a choice of yellow. Also from your movie it does not look possible for the gun to hit a nickle at 10m even with a single shot. please advise

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Rob,

    All the shooting Tom Gaylord did in the video was with steel BBs on full auto bursts. As I stated in my report, single shots with lead balls are far more accurate. I can not only hit a nickel at 10M, once I get on it I never need to miss.

    But that’s with lead balls shooting one shot at a time in the semi-automatic mode. You can’t spray and pray and hope to shoot that well.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Rob
    Is it still avaliable in yellow?

  • Anonymous Says:

    Rob
    Is it still avaliable in yellow?

  • Anonymous Says:

    will somebody please e-mail me on how to get info on modifying the drodz my address is: HORNET714@VERIZON.NET THANKYU

  • Anonymous Says:

    problems with drozd
    After shooting about 100 rounds of gamo lead balls, the inside of my drozd is covered with a smelly black substance. Cleaning would require complete dissasembly of gun and magazine.

    Also after leaving an empty CO2 cylinder in my drozd for a week, the magazine leaks gas everytime I put in a new CO2 cylinder. Maybe if I dissassemble the magazine I can fix it.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Leaker,

    Have you used Pellgunoil on every powerlet?

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    bb,
    can the drozd take down squirels and other medium to large sized pests? if so, what would be the maximum distance to do so?

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    I think the Drozd is too light for squirrels. Maybe chipmunks with a short burst.

    10 yards, or the distance at which you never miss a quarter.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    how would you make the Drozd better?

    does anyone have any requests for making a better Drozd? i want to design an american-made version of the Drozd and i need help planning out the best features and specifications… any suggestions would be a huge help.

    more accuracy?
    is the selectable fire rate useful? higher velocity?
    would you buy the gun if it were nitrogen only (to get truly FULL-AUTO fire… CO2 might not work)?
    BBs or pellets?
    steel BBs or lead BBs?

    thanks all!

    … and thanks pyramid- this blog line is a great resource to assist users and dispel product myths. you’re doing a terrific service to the community!

    T

  • Anonymous Says:

    a bit off topic, but it was discussed in this blog about the crosman powerlets. why aren’t other compressed air sources used for airguns that are more powerful. i know a lot of paintballers are switching to nitro with their guns, but why would nitrogen dry seals out? don’t paintball guns have seals also? one person mentioned that they got 1750 fps with a talon with helium, whether i believe it or not, it seems other gases would make air guns much more powerful. of course we airgunners would run into much more problems with laws, but putting that aside wouldn’t manufacturers want to boost their velocities with better gases – remember, velocity sells since in an airgun this is an indicator of power.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    I guess there aren’t that many airgunners wanting more power. If they do, firearms are an alternative.

    B.B.

  • tgwms Says:

    the main problem with increasing velocity is the projectile. airgun projectiles are designed for sub-sonic travel. once you break the speed of sound, you loose accuracy. this is why hunting guns increase projectile mass while staying under mach 1… you increase ENERGY while retaining accuracy. but yes many of those guns use compressed air- which you can use at higher pressures than CO2.

  • marksman Says:

    I’ve read many of these comments and frankly got bored of reading them. If I say something someone has already addressed, I apologize.
    First of all, since CO2 freezes up, use Nitrogen. You can get the tanks filled at any paintball shop. those guys have been using it for years. If CO2 works so will N.

    Second, I don’t know the what shotgun lead is the same as .177. I would guess #4 shot. Just by some shells and use a micrometer to find out. Then go buy a 50 lb. bag of shot. Lead has gone up in price so much I quit reloading all but .410 and 28 gauge. I used to save a lot of money reloading all gauges.

    Just my 2 cents. Not sure about the shot bu I know for a fact, if you can put a CO2 paintball tank on this gun. A Nitrogen tank will screw right on and not freeze up. At lteat for a couple thousand rounds anyway. :)

  • Anonymous Says:

    to B.B. and general public,
    their is a mock silencer being produced that is really a barrel extender. it increases barrel length from about 4 to about 15 inches. it “increases accuracy and power”
    B.B. what are your thoughts on this? would the power really be boosted,(supposedly between 550fps and 600fps) and would the accuracy truly increase? a better hunting capability then…thanks.
    ~Kyle

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Kyle,

    Please read this report.

    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2007/05/walther-cp99-limited-edition-part-2.html

    A fake compensdator is the same as a fake silencer.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    i am going to get a drozd and i was wondering were i can get lead bbs and if the drozd can fire pellets

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Please call them round lead balls, because a BB is a steel sphere. If you do that, you can find them on this website, under the .177 ammunition.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    LMAO come on PLEASE the only drawback to steel bb’s is inaccuracy, and at moderate distances this gun is amazingly accurate. As far as nitrogen at 1700PSI I would think a regulator is a MUST unless you want to run the risk of scrapnal city. We ALL know how much money we dump into this thing for sheer fun, if the barrel wears out after 75K rounds, BUY ANOTHER ONE!! its only MONEY!!

  • Anonymous Says:

    By the way.. http://www.twmosa.com/
    produces chargers in the same size as standard powelets in nitrogen as well as co2 the website had a spec sheet a few days ago, with a list of all the cartridge sizes for anyone wanting to experiement with nitrous or nitrogen charge. I cant find this spec sheet tonight, but they have contact info on the page.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Where do we get parts?? The manual has an exploded view parts schematic– I need an item #4 barrel gasket—

    FYI–when using lead balls, and you cannot get the magazine out easily—don’t force it–use a cleaning rod to push the deformed ball back into the magazine– this will avoid damage to the #4 seal–

    Has anyone developed a high capacity magazine (that works well?)

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Parts,

    Call Pyramyd Air.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    i wanted to know if you could put a scope on the drozd and what kind of scope you can put on the drozd.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    The Drozd does have a short scope rail (11mm) and I think you will want the shoulder stock accessory, if you decide to mount an optical sight.

    I think a dot sight would be best. Like one of the BSA sights that fits a 11-13mm rail.

    BB.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Just purchased one of these and as i’m waiting for it to arrive just a couple quick questions.

    Can someone confirm that the barrel extender actually in crease fps?

    High capacity magazine?

    Is the black model any different then the yellow model?

  • Anonymous Says:

    I have one of the old LARC international M-19A Annihilators BB machine guns . . . since Freon became illegal I’ve been using compressed air from an old CO2 fire extinguisher It never jams, and does about 4000 rpm. Uses steel BBs. Anyone now what it’s worth or why they don’t make it any more ??
    Steve

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Steve,

    Why the Larc isn’t made is anybody’s guess. Probably the sales were too small and the makers lost interest, but there could be a hundred other good reasons.

    Larcs sell for $100 in the box at airgunj shows.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    bb,
    what do you think the hunting capabilities of this gun are…could it take out a squirrel to about 40ft…thanks
    “Kay

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Kay,

    I cannot recommend the Drozd for hunting.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    I own 2 modded Drozds – Both have the chip for 1200 rpm. I have added in the bulk tank and a rifiled 15 inch barrel and 18 inch barrel on them. I can TESTIFY THAT WITHOUT A DOUBT THAT LEAD BALLS ARE THE MOST ACCURATE AND DEADLY -( MY FAVORITE IS GAMO ) The steel bbs are for lazy/cheap folks that dont care about performance or accuracy. Might as well just take a hand full of steel bbs and throw them all over the place. Same difference. NOW – If you all would like a trick that works great – here ya go. Load just 1 steel bb first in the clip. Then load 29 of the lead gamo balls on top of it. I can spray a full clip out in barley a second without any jams – ALL DEAD ON B*llS ACCURATE. The trick is to put the steel bb on the bottom of the clip so that the pin on the bottom does not deform it as described on here in earlier txt. I chop right through 1/2 plywood and dent a stop sign behind it with the setup I am running now. With the full auto chip, a huge bulk tank, and a full clip of LEAD balls it is quite an impressive and destructive thing. Oh ya. Be sure to get the Brass Eagle Butt stock and throw it on a 9oz tank. Makes the whole gun weight and feel – ( feel right ) I wish I had taken video of the 1964 Mercedes I shot up with my Drozd. The cops came and thought the car was part of a shootout LOL!

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Hotrod,

    Thanks for your post!

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    I shot about 3000 rounds of quality steel bb’s. Then I read this discussion and I tried lead Gamo balls. They sure do hit harder. I ran 30 rounds out of each clip.
    But NOW MY GUN WON”T SHOOT!
    Now, with using bb’s or lead, the balls just fling out of the barrel at about 10 fps. Took it apart, everything seems to be working perfectly. Still pops out the right amount of air when it is dry fired.
    Any Ideas? Where can you get one repaired/upgraded? Thanks, J

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    You might try cleaning the barrel. Use JB Bore Cleaning Compound and a brass brush.

    B.B.

  • trevor Says:

    If you like the Drozd, then you are going to flip over this new GSMG. Grab a sneak peek at this new fully automatic BB machinegun.

    http://www.fullyautomaticairgun.com

    Unlike the Drozd- the GSMG will fire anything you put into it- .177 BBs, .177 round balls, .177 pellets. It will even fire .22 caliber pellets with a barrel and mag change!

    Drop by the site and check out the pictures and vids.

    Thanks! … I hope this isn’t spamming- it really it on-topic in a way. :)

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Trevor,

    Thanks for the lead!

    B.B.

  • McGerdleroy Says:

    Totally confused after reading this blog…Lead or Steel? I have already shot it with Crosman Copperhead BB’s. worked fine, power is good for the first mag or two, should I be oiling the tip of every CO2 cartridge? (manual only mentioned oiling the BB feeder every 700 rounds or so, and also the Battery contact after every battery change) Good thing I am getting the Mock Suppressor kit in the mail in case I damaged mine. What is the current consensus on using Lead vs Steel, also in case I should be using Lead only, when I put on the Extender Barrel that comes with the Mock Suppressor kit will that fix any potential damage I did using Steel copper plated BBs (as I think this requires removing the original barrel)? Also where can I find info on how to clean and how often to clean this gun? Thanks folks

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    McGerdleroy,

    Unless you are interested in maximum accuracy and power, use steel BBs. Lead balls fit the bore better, but are not best for those who are interested in full-auto fire, only.

    As for the CO2 use of Pellgunoil, that is constant. Use it every time you recharge. It is impossible to over-oil your gun that way.

    You never clean the barrel – ever.

    B.B.

  • McGerdleroy Says:

    BB – Thanks, I feel a little bit better as I am still waiting on my extender barrel and mock suppressor and on the website it specifically states something about a treatment so that steel bb’s won’t damage the rifling (they actually recommend steel bb for the extender barrel). Why should I never clean the barrel? also I would like to maintain this gun as best as I can, how should I care for it other than the recommended battery contact cleaning, oiling bb loader every 700 rds, and oiling the tip of every co2? I appreciate all input

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    McGerdleroy,

    Why do I say not to clean the barrel? Because it doesn’t get dirty. In a firearm, combustion gasses leave deposits and copper jacket material or lead can fuse to the metal of the barrel. An air rifle has no combustion gasses and seldom has lead deposits. And, since you will be shooting steel BBs, yours never will.

    Cleaning just opens the door for possible bore damage.

    As far as other routine maintenance, just keep the battery box clean.

    B.B.

  • McGerdleroy Says:

    Thanks again BB…

    Can you recommend any Dovetail to Weaver Adapters?

    I want to mount some accessories and I have been eyeballing a small one made by BSA (think thats the name) that looks like will fit on the measly amount of available dovetail…

    what about drilling your own weaver mounts on top?

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    McGerdleroy,

    You are making a common mistake that many newer airgunners make. A Weaver mount IS a dovetail! You have to differentiate by saying 11mm dovetail, because they are all dovetails.

    I don’t know if the BSA 11mm dovetail mount will hold on the Drozd. Drilling and tapping might be the best way to go, but isn’t the Drozd receiver plastic? How well do you expect the screws to hold in plastic?

    B.B.

  • Ray Says:

    Above someone asked where to buy the 1200 rpm full auto mod board. You can buy them from my site http://www.drozdmax.com for $25. They are well worth the money.

  • Devin Says:

    I just purchased a Drozd Blackbird and I am wondering what are the best brand of bb's to buy? I purchased a 4000ct of the Daisy premium grade zinc plated bb's, but I am not sure if they are lead or steel. Does anyone know?

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Devin,

    They are steel. All real BBs are steel today. Anything else is a round lead ball.

    You want steel only.

    B.B.

  • Arthur Says:

    i would like to convert my drozd to compressed air …need some advice…marinepop1942@gmail.com

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