Friday, June 08, 2007

Remington Genesis: Part 3

by B.B. Pelletier

Part 1
Part 2

Well, Part 2 of the Remington Genesis report was completed on June 19, 2006, so this report has been some time in coming. I'd like to tell you I have been diligently shooting the gun all that time, but the truth is - I completely forgot about it! Several readers reminded me during that time, but it didn't sink in until a couple of weeks ago.

Clean the barrel
I read both earlier posts to see what I'd done already, and it turned out I hadn't cleaned the barrel yet, so that was the first order of business. I was surprised by how light the cocking effort is and how smooth the rifle cocks now that it's broken in. Remember that I complained about spring noise when cocking back when the gun was new? Well, it's all gone now, and the rifle cocks very smoothly.

The barrel on this rifle was the easiest I've ever cleaned, which stood in sharp contrast to the Mendoza RM 2000 I recently cleaned. By stroke five, the brush was going back and forth with a light push, and by the end there was hardly any resistance at all. I could feel the rifling by holding the Dewey rod by the shank instead of the swivel handle. The lands bumped as the bristles bounced over them.

Change the scope
I changed the scope, just in case that was the problem that kept the rifle from grouping last year. This time, I went with a Leapers Bug Buster 2, which has less power than the variable scope that comes with the Genesis. Instead of using the scope-stop hole on top of the receiver, I just butted the back of the rear scope ring against the plastic end cap of the rifle. It seemed to work fine and the scope didn't move.

The wind was brisk, so I held the distance to just 25 yards

Find new pellets
In the last report I eliminated JSB Exact heavies and Crosman Premier heavies as possible pellets, so I looked at all new pellets for this time. On the advice of one of our readers, the first pellet I tried was the Eun Jin 16.1-grain extra heavy pellet. It grouped in 2.5" and was a total bust. After that, I tried Beeman Kodiaks and got pretty much the same large dispersion.

Logun Penetrators tightened things up to 1.5", but at 25 yards that's still not very good. Then, I tried some Gamo Tomahawks on the recommendation of another reader. Lo and behold, they turned out to be good pellets for this rifle! They were landing in the same holes or close to them, shot after shot. But the group size for five shots was still about 1". While that's okay, it's not great for 25 yards. But, it gave me a thought.

I pulled the Gel Shooting Support pad out of my range bag and put it on top of the sandbag in place of my left hand. The Genesis stock has a flat spot just forward of the triggerguard, and balancing that on the gel bag produced the perfect hold. The groups shrank to LESS than a half-inch! Now we're cookin'!


Gamo Tomahawk pellets made some impressive groups! This one measures 0.43".


The next pellet I tried was the RWS Supermag. While four pellets grouped in a neat half-inch in the best group fired, the last one opened the group to 0.906. It was always that way, too. They seemed to want to group, only to mess up with one pellet.


RWS Supermags wanted to be good, but there was always a stray pellet.


I'll finish this report on Tuesday, because on Monday I hope to start the CX-4 test (if the gun arrives, that is).

55 Comments:

At June 08, 2007 6:40 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey BB

Did you happen to chrony the genesis after it broke in?

Thanks Kyle.

 
At June 08, 2007 7:49 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Off topic, but I need some help nonetheless. Recently ordered my first PCP (an Air Arms) so I'm in the market for a hand pump. Trying to decide between the Hill (which Pyramyd Air does not appear to sell), the Axsor/Logun or one of the Air Venturi models. Anyone have any experience in these and can offer some good advice? Thanks.

 
At June 08, 2007 8:48 AM, Anonymous VInce said...

Ditto on that velocity check... my Legacy lost a significant amount of steam after it finally finished dieseling (and it's the same action)

 
At June 08, 2007 8:48 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

The Hill is a wonderful pump. It's robust and well-made. Get one if you can.

Between the Axsor and the Air Venturi I'd recommend the Axsor. The Air Venturi seems to have some reliability issues that need to be sorted out.

B.B.

 
At June 08, 2007 8:55 AM, Anonymous Vince said...

What's up with Hammerli?

I'm thinking of a guy on a forum who reviewed a Hammerli Nova ($300!). Beautiful gun, but it had the same lousy trigger as the Storm Elite (or extreme, or whatever it was) you tested a little while ago. I thought it was a bit low-brow on the plain Storm that I paid $132 for. If I had gotten that trigger on a $300 gun, I'd go through the roof.

 
At June 08, 2007 9:17 AM, Anonymous GadgetHead said...

RE: B.B. wrote: "... I then tried Eley Wasps, which are the fattest lead pellet I know. Instead of 5.5mm they are 5.6! ...," in blog article http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2007/06/mendoza-rm-2000-part-3.html

Hello All,

As requested, I contacted Mac1 Airgun Distributors. Yesterday evening I received an email reply regarding availibility of the Eley Wasp pellets listed on their Retail Prices web page.

Apparently B.B. is correct about the Retail Prices page being a bit out-of-date. All Eley Wasp pellets (.177 & .22) at Mac1 are sold out and have been for some time.

Cheers,
GH

P.S. - If the URL noted above looks like it's cut off, you may be able to grab and drag the edge of the blog comments pop-up window to widen it.

 
At June 08, 2007 9:25 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Kyle and everyone,

Yes I will chrono the gun. That's in the next (and I hope final) part.

B.B.

 
At June 08, 2007 9:26 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

GH,

Thanks for doing the legwork on this. It's good to know for sure.

B.B.

 
At June 08, 2007 11:01 AM, Anonymous Dave said...

bb,

thanks for this report, ive been looking forward to it.

Dave

 
At June 08, 2007 11:33 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB. Wow. It seems on some guns the gel pad is helpful and on others not so. With this post I think I should get the gel pad. don't you think?

Since you think my poor groups with RWS 36 is a hold problem, I should probable try the gel pad too. I should order some more pellets as well with the pad in order to try more alternatives. So far I have tried JSB Express, CP's, (RWS: S. DOMES, H.Points, and MK's) Beeman Ram Jets, and Crow Mags. and H&N Barracudas 21.1 grs. The best of these has been the Crow Mags and the RWS Super H points so far. The Crow Mags fitting tight and the H.Points less tiight in breach.

Do you have any pellet suggestions I could order in 0.22 to try something else?

KTK-Racine

 
At June 08, 2007 12:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

hi bb
a topic i recently learned about and i think many readers would be intrested in is potato cannons. i think the pnuematic variety could be classified as airguns. they are cheap and easy to build and lots of fun to shoot. heres a great site

http://www.spudtech.com/

Nate in Mass

 
At June 08, 2007 12:12 PM, Anonymous GadgetHead said...

B.B. wrote, "Thanks for doing the legwork on this..."

No problem. I let my fingers do the walking! ;o)

Cheers,
GH

 
At June 08, 2007 12:57 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B. wrote, "The Hill is a wonderful pump. It's robust and well-made. Get one if you can."

Thanks for the advice, my order has been placed.

 
At June 08, 2007 1:38 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Nate,

Spud guns are airguns, for the most part.

Someday, maybe.

B.B.

 
At June 08, 2007 1:44 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

KTK,

Yes, I think the gel pad will help you with the 36, as well.

You have tried all the best pellets, except for JSB Exacts (15.9 grain). I think your gun will shoot something from that group.

By the way - have you ever cleaned the barrel of this gun? I mean cleaned as in JB Bore Paste on a wire brush? A dirty bore will cause accuracy problems, too.

B.B.

 
At June 08, 2007 2:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.

Thanks for putting your time and effort into this review. The pellets i were using for my genesis were always wide spred cause they were not well made and i didn't know if it was my scope. Now thanks to you I can hopefully get my Genesis working good. Thanks for the tip on cleaning the barel.

Steve S.

 
At June 08, 2007 2:11 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB.

im looking for a scope for a tx200, it will be used 60 % field target 40 % small game

Could you suggest some for me, and could you make it various brands not only leapers, thanks

 
At June 08, 2007 3:24 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Consider the AirForce 4-16. It's low-powered for FT, but a wonderful scope for hunting. The Leapers 8-32, obviously. The Bushnell Elite 4200. The CenterPoint 8-32. The Rex 6-24.

B.B.

 
At June 08, 2007 6:19 PM, Anonymous Twotalon said...

B.B.
Do you know if there is any significant difference between JB bore cleaning compound and JB bore brite? The description on Brownells site looks about the same for both.

Twotalon

 
At June 09, 2007 1:42 AM, Blogger CyberSkin said...

B.B

I think that most Gamo pellets are made for plinking with a low powered gun or shooting at a very close range. There cheap and not very consistant.

I have read on a forum that a shooter was having good luck with Gamo pro hunters. I don't think there available to us. Have you ever heard of them or know of any other Gamo pellets that we don't see?
I never hear you talk about the Gamo pro magnums. Have you tried them?

 
At June 09, 2007 6:58 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

In my Winchester 800x I can get awsome groups with the gamo hunter pellets. They are very good pellets at least that one anyways.

 
At June 09, 2007 8:22 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Twotalon,

The description at Brownell's say to first clean the bore with the paste, and then use the Bore Brite. That makes it a finer grade of abrasive.

B.B.

 
At June 09, 2007 8:28 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

CyberSkin,

I have used Gamo Match pellets for more than a decade and I find them to be a very good match pellet. Not the absolute best, but good enough to shoot regional matches, where the competrition is stiuff.

I haven't used other types of Gamo pellets as much, but I do have Hunters and Pro Magnums on hand. And the Tomahawks performed very well in the Genesis.

Gamo has made lead pellets longer than most airgun companies have been in business. Making airguns came much later for them.

B.B.

 
At June 09, 2007 9:32 AM, Anonymous Vince said...

Now there's something I don't quite get.

I'd LOVE to love Gamo Match pellets because they can be had so cheap... but I'll be doggoned if I've ever been able to get very good results with them. In virtually every gun I've had, they never outshoot Premiers or even Gamo Hunters... and frequently they shoot significantly worse.

Are they ill-suited to 900-950 fps? I've always heard that wadcutters are a short-ranged pellets. At what point do they start losing it?

Gamo seems to claim that they are accurate out to 30 yards, and that PBA's are a little more accurate even when launched at 1200fps... so their claims are obviously suspect.

 
At June 09, 2007 9:40 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Vince,

All wadcutters are ill-suited to 900 f.p.s. This is a target pellet, designed for 600 f.p.s. The will handle 800, buit not much more.

Gamo Match are used in Olympic target guns that shoot at 10 meters. There, they are phenomenal, though not guite up to world-class competition.

B.B.

 
At June 09, 2007 10:29 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have also had very good luck with Gamo Hunters (.22)

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/p/pellet/191

 
At June 09, 2007 2:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.

Is it possible to get lead poisening after handeling pellets for so long.

Steven S.

 
At June 09, 2007 4:38 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Steven,

To get lead poisoning you must ingest lead in some way. If you wash your hands after handling pellets, you will be safe.

B.B.

 
At June 09, 2007 5:13 PM, Anonymous smith said...

B.B.
Would you consider the Genesis a good starter for someone just starting in springers? i have shot other guns, but now i am thinking about a Genesis.

 
At June 09, 2007 5:34 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Smith,

Yes, I'd say the Genesis is a good starter airgun. But because it is a breakbarrel, it is the most hold-sensitive of all air rifles. That's not just the Genesis, but all breakbarrels.

However, the technique that must be used to shoot well with a brerak barrel is applicable to all other shooting, so a breakbarrel does make you a better shooter.

B.B.

 
At June 10, 2007 12:21 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

does anybody know were I can buy gamo raptor pellets realy cheap. The cheapest i could find them for was $5.98 at midsouthshooterssupply.com for only 100 count.

Steve S

 
At June 10, 2007 12:25 AM, Anonymous Dave said...

steve, if theres a walmart near you, they sell them for 4.98-ish for 100 count...but i havent heard good things about raptor pellets...do you have a gun they are good in?

Dave

 
At June 10, 2007 8:02 AM, Anonymous Twotalon said...

Like Dave said.....
Unless you know your gun will shoot them, then leave them alone.

They load hard, the skirts will not conform to the bore, the light weight is almost like dry firing your gun, poor effectiveness on critters......punches slick holes without causing damage.

Too high velocity for accuracy in stronger guns, may lose velocity in low powered guns with choked barrels...very hard to get through the choke.

Erratic velocity.

It's up to you.
Twotalon

 
At June 10, 2007 1:28 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

did anyone notice that they released the gamo cfx in .22

cody

 
At June 10, 2007 2:50 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear BB,

What's your opinion of the AVANTI Precision Ground Steel Shot that Pyramid is advertising right now? Seems I remember you ran a test and said that there wasn't much difference in BB performancee between brands, but perhaps you were only talking about the difs between Daisy and Crosman's. Would the Avanti have any advantage over the others in that really accurate Daisy target BB gun? How about in my PPK/S BB pistols (I bet I know the answer to that already)?

-Joe

 
At June 10, 2007 2:55 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Joe,

I think you have it figured out. The Avanti shot is for the 499 target gun. It wouldn't be any advantage in a PPK/S.

B.B.

 
At June 10, 2007 3:59 PM, Blogger pestbgone said...

Dave S,
About the Raptor pellets, I think they are pretty much a novelty, although they sound neat going supersonic. I couldn't get them to group at all, but did some velocity comparisons at 3 feet and 26 feet using a Gamo Shadow 1000. (averages of 4 shots of each pellet at each distance)
Raptor 5.0gr,1135fps @3', 982fps @26'.
Beeman Kodiak 10.6gr,786fps @3', and 756fps@26'.
EunJin 16.1gr, 575fps@3', 566fps@26'.

In the first 23 feet, the Raptors lost 153fps, the BKs lost 30fps, and the EunJins lost only 9fps. At both ranges the BKs had the most energy and by far grouped the best, at least for me in that gun.
Pestbegone

 
At June 10, 2007 6:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks for letting me in on how the Raptors are not as good as advertised.

STEVE S.

 
At June 10, 2007 7:42 PM, Anonymous Jensen Bartlett said...

B.B.

Do you know of any adapters that would take my rifle from weaver base to Dovetail base??? Kind of silly, I know. But there are some good scope rings out there that I would love to have on my rifle instead of the rings I've got now. Like that new BSA you guys brought out. Here.
This would be a great ring for the scope on my rifle. But the BSA is a dovetail base, not a weaver base, as thats all my rifle will accept. Any suggestions?

Thanks

~Jensen

 
At June 10, 2007 10:46 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB,

When i do get an air wolf i will need a scope. I dont know what i should choose. I cant just buy a leapers for that gun. I dont know what to do for the scopes power. I like the Leupold VX-L 6.5-20x56mm but dont know if 20X is enough for everything. Any ideas?
Thanks

-sumo

 
At June 11, 2007 8:30 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Jensen,

You want to go from Weaver dovetails to 11 dovetails? That must mean you have a firearm, not an airgun. Unless something has escaped me, there are no airguns with Weaver dovetails as their base for scope mounts.

B-Square used to make things like this, but they have cut back their lines severely in the past few years. I don't know if they have what you want.

The BSA adjustable mount you mention is an 11mm dovetail, not a Weaver. You said the BSA base is a Weaver dovetail, so are you talking about a BSA centerfire firearm?

I'm confused.

B.B.

 
At June 11, 2007 8:39 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Sumo,

Are you planning to compete in field target with your Air Wolf? If so, 20 power is on the low side. 30 power is what I like to use, and if the scope is bright enough, 40 power is even better.

With 20 power, you will not be able to rangefind with accuracy beyond about 35-38 yards.

If you don't plan to compete in field target, then the Leupold sounds like a fine scope.

B.B.

 
At June 11, 2007 12:14 PM, Anonymous Dave said...

bb,

i think when he says the bsa is an 11 mm base, he means the mount, not the rifle, and the rifle is a weaver, and he wants the bsa mount on his weaver mount rifle...i think. like back when i was asking you about putting the bsa mount on my friends .243.

Dave

 
At June 11, 2007 4:58 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Dave,

That's what it sounded like to me, too.

B.B.

 
At June 11, 2007 7:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB,

i looked at the nght force 12-42 / 56 benchrest but then i noticed the minimum focus range was 25 yards. Most of my shots will be past that but still. I will not be doing feild target but want a powerful scope. The rex goes down to twenty yards but i will still want to shoot a closer ranges too. I also wonder how the quality is in the rex. One thing i like about the leupold is the fact that each click in only 1/10 of an inch at 100 yards.

 
At June 11, 2007 7:56 PM, Anonymous Dave said...

wow...1/10 of an inch...that must take forever to adjust at 3" off at 20 yrds. bb already did a post on the big rex scope. its a nice review...you should read it...i think you'll like it.

bb,

i know i read somewhere that there is a guy at pyramydair that makes a lot of airgun parts to fix the guns that come in...do you think he would be capable of configuring a weaver to dovetail converter?

Dave

 
At June 11, 2007 8:31 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks dave.

BB,

if i order an air wolf from europe it would be 1100 euro. 1,100.00 EUR =1,469.67 USD so i would be saving money from the $2200. One site said they had 50 in stock and USA shiping was $14. Do tou think its ok to orger from the UK or is it to unreliable or somthing?

 
At June 12, 2007 6:26 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Sumo,

You need a scope that focuses down to 10 yards. Airguns operate in such a short range that you really should get a scope made for them. The Rex is deficient in that area, though its quality seems as good as any. The NightForce is also just for firearms - despite what they may say.

And I must agree that the Leupold is not for airguns with those fine clicks. It's for long-range target shooting at 200-1,000 yards.

Please look at both the Leapers 8-32 and the CenterPoint 8-32. Either one is just what you seem to need.

B.B.

 
At June 12, 2007 6:29 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Dave,

I don't think you really want to pay $100/hr for a couple of hours of machinist's time to make what you want. If B-Square doesn't carry it someone else may, though it's not going to be a big seller for anyone.

Keep searching,

B.B.

 
At June 12, 2007 6:34 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Air Wolf,

There will be an import duty of 7 percent or more added to the price of the gun. Also, Daystate has to remove the silencers on any guns they ship to the U.S. That's a law enforced by their Home Office (State Department).

U.S. Customs may inspect the shipment looking for a silencer, too. It doesn't happen every time, but it can.

B.B.

 
At June 12, 2007 12:05 PM, Anonymous Jensen Bartlett said...

B.B.

This is about the weaver to dovetail you responded too.

Yes, I should have cleared that up. I've finally moved onto the next step in my recreational shooting experiences, and bought a rifle. A .17 Savage HMR. Very nice little gun but comes with stock Weaver base mounts (which really isn't bad at all). But after seeing that BSA mount, I've been dying to adapt it to my gun despite having mis-matching bases.

Hope that cleared up the confusion, any suggestions then?

~Jensen

 
At June 12, 2007 2:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB.

I think i will wait for one to show up on a US site.

I have a leapers 8-32 so i think i will buy a rex and see what works best. Thanks.

-sumo

 
At June 12, 2007 5:52 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Jensen,

You have one additional problem. Weaver is a specification for the cross-slot size only - not the placement of the slots. Picatinney specifies both slot size and location. Your adaptor might well fit the slots, but they might be in the wrong locations for both keys to fit at the same time.


B.B.

 
At June 18, 2007 8:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I do have questions on the scope mount the 1000 comes with, a 2 piece mount and I think its a cheapo way to go, also because there is no scope stop hole but a small metal piece I am thinking of getting the single mount attachment and a more robust scope stop that GAMO sells & Pyramyd Air. The pamphlet that comes with the gun says the more robust scope stop comes with the gun but that is not true....

Question to BB as well as you and GAMO owners is show I replace the mount and the stop. The 2 piece mount and the small piece of metal for the stop seems cheap compared to what I had on the Sierra Pro.

Thanx, Bernie

 
At July 03, 2007 2:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Regarding the Weaver/11 dovetails. The adaptor for the S&W 686 (made by Umarex) is a Weaver scope. I had a lot of trouble just finding that! The BSA laser device has fittings for either Weaver or 11 mm, but my Daisy red dot did not. I, however, with masterful machining skills bored a hole that wasn't too crooked through the red dot and used the larger mounts from the laser for it. Well, it mounted fairly well, and points pretty well. It would be better, however, to have a device actually made for the Weaver mounting rail on my 686. Really, it is time to scope it, and the only handgun scope to look at now would be the BSA 2x20, until Leapers comes out with their new handgun scope.
Michael in Georgia

 

Post a Comment

<< Home