B.B. was wrong: The story of Crosman Pellgunoil

by B.B. Pelletier

Today, I will explain all that went on with the Pellgunoil incident, as it will forever remain in my memory.

First of all, I have always believed that Crosman Pellgunoil is a synthetic silicone oil. I had no reason to believe otherwise, and I never questioned why I believed it to be so. All the advice I have given about using Pellgunoil over the years has been based on that belief.

The incident
Yesterday, one of our readers brought to my attention that there has been a discussion on the Yellow Forum about me telling you readers that I introduced Pellgunoil into the BAM B51 precharged pneumatic rifle through the fill nipple to coat the inner seals. I did give that advice, and those on the forum were saying that was wrong and dangerous. They said I should not have done what I did and certainly not told others about it in print. I answered the reader who told me about the forum discussion that Pellgunoil is synthetic and poses no problem.

Was I sure?
Then, my wife asked me whether I knew that for sure. The two things wrong with that are:

  1. I didn’t know it for sure – I thought so, but I wasn’t certain, and
  2. whenever my wife asks me this question, I am invariably wrong

So, I called a friend who is very knowledgeable about airguns – someone in the business who is in a position to know about Pellgunoil.

He said he didn’t know for sure what it was, but that a mutual friend of ours (another very knowledgeable guy) had once purchased some Pellgunoil that was accompanied by a spec sheet that revealed it is just non-detergent 30-weight motor oil and nothing more. My friend didn’t know whether that was correct, but he suggested I conduct an ignition test to see if Pellgunoil burns.

A call to Crosman
Right there I knew I had a problem, because something I had believed to be true for decades was quite possibly not true at all. I called Crosman and talked to a company official I know. He told me he doesn’t know what Pellgunoil is for certain, but that he does believe it is a petroleum-based product. At Crosman, he told me they refer to it as “Red Oil.” I didn’t ask this guy for an official company response. My call was simply precautionary, so don’t think for a minute that Crosman doesn’t know everything there is to know about Pellgunoil. Just not the guy I happened to buttonhole on the phone for five minutes.

The right stuff
He also told me that Crosman RMCoil, which the company now calls Silicone Chamber Oil, is 100 percent synthetic silicone with a high flashpoint. That is the stuff I should have used on the BAM B51.

Then, my friend called me back to say he had tried to ignite Pellgunoil, and it did. So, it is flammable, and probably petroleum-based, at the very least.

Pellgunoil forever – for the right jobs
Here’s the deal. Crosman recommends Pellgunoil for all their CO2 guns, and I will continue to recommend it for all CO2 guns. Crosman also recommends using Pellgunoil on the pump piston heads of their multi-pump pneumatics (in the Benjamin line), so I will continue to recommend that, as well. I know it works wonders in those applications.

What I will not do again is recommend the use of Pellgunoil in precharged pneumatic airguns. Perhaps you’re wondering what is the difference between a precharged pneumatic and a multi-pump pneumatic? A multi-pump builds an internal pressure of up to 1,200 psi (approximately…some may be less and some may even be more), while many precharged pneumatics develop internal pressures of 3,000 psi, and some even more than that. The two multi-pumps I still wonder about are the Daystate Sportsman Mark II and the Titan multi-pump that it was derived from. Those guns may develop a pressure over 2,000 psi, because they perform like precharged pneumatics. Since I don’t know, I will only use silicone oils to lubricate their pump heads.

Now you know everything I do about Crosman Pellgunoil. It’s a great product, and I’m very sorry that I told you about using it in an unsafe application.

77 Responses to “B.B. was wrong: The story of Crosman Pellgunoil”

  • Anonymous Says:

    B.B.

    That was a tough pill to swallow. You handled it with grace and eloquence. Thank you for all you do.

    Michael in Florida

  • Robert Says:

    I use “Red Oil” in all my Crosman, Daisy & Sheridan guns. It’s called transmission fluid. In fact when I bought a leaking Crosman Mark II air pistol I used it in it. Sealed it right up and has been working ever since.

    If it can work in a transmission with all the seals, o-rings and gaskets and do no harm then it can work on air gun o-rings.

    Plus a quart is only a couple of bucks. And will last a life time.

    Bob

    Bob

  • Mike Says:

    I’m still unsure where the danger comes in. You made the point that it’s dangerous to use petroleum based lubricants in guns that reach these higher pressures. But what is the actual danger?

    Will the lubricant explode? Will the gun explode? Will this damage the gun? Is the danger when the gun is fired or when it’s being charged (or pumped)?

    It’s good information to have. But lacking some knowledge you were probably assuming I already had it left me with some questions.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Bob,

    So many people have said the same thing that I know it must be true.

    B.B.

  • Bryan Says:

    well if you want to know more here are some links, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil
    http://www.worldsbestoil.ca/which-30-weight-oil.php

    my school is luck to have a auto shop :P

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Mike,

    Here is the actual danger. When fuel (the oil) gets atomized (broken into a mist of tiny droplets) in a pressurized atmosphere in which there is sufficient oxygen to support combustion, all the droplets burn at almost the same time, if ignited. The higher the pressure, the less it takes to ignite the mixture, until it becomes sensitive enough to go off almost with shock, alone. That’s the definition of an explosion.

    The military uses fuel-air explosives for scuttling ships and for setting off landmines.

    The gun will be blown apart.

    A lesser danger is a violent fire, like the one I showed all of you in the post on 30 May this year.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Bryan,

    That’s what I thought. 30-weight is correct as I originally wrote it. In the designation 10W30 the W stands for winter.

    B.B.

  • Clarke Says:

    I, for one would like to for certain what Pellgun Oil actually contains. It seems quite a few people feel that Crosman Red Oil is merely “oridinary” automatic transmission fluid, becuase of its red color. There are many types of ATF from the old type F to many variations of Dexron, some of which are now synthetic based, rather than petroleum. I’m not saying that transmission fluid is bad for airguns. I’m just saying not use a fluid just because of its color. After all, Marvel Mystery Oil is red also, but according to its MSDS, it contains mineral spirits (paint thinner) as a solvent. I think I’ll stick with Pellgunoil for my multipumps.

  • Jack Says:

    B.B.
    I bought some “Liquid Wrench silicone spray lubricant” a while back, but , under contents the first thing listed is petrolium distillates. Where would one go to get PURE SILICONE OIL? (without waiting for delivery)
    Jack

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Clarke,

    Good point.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Jack,

    Don’t go to the hardware store. Buy Crosman Silicone Oil, which they told me yesterday is 100 percent pure silicone. The other airgun chamber oils are also probably pure silicone – Airgun Express Chamber Lube and RWS Chamber Lube found in the RWS Rifkle Shooter’s kit.

    B.B.

  • LoneShooter Says:

    B.B.,

    You are the best! Thanks for the information.

    L.S.

  • bill Says:

    Hi B.B.

    So assuming Pellgunoil is actually a petrolium-based product, I understand that as such, it is safe for CO2 guns and mulit-pump pneumatics.

    Are there any pellet gun applications where Pellgunoil (and like products) are preferred over pure silicon chamber oil?

    Asked another way, is there any reason not to use pure silicon chamber oil exclusively for all lubrication needs? If so, what are those applications?

    Thanks,
    Bill

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Bill,

    You ask if silicone oil can do everything Pellgunoil can, plus service PCPs. I would haver to say yes, it can.

    The main reason I push Pellgunoil so hard is its wide distributrion, and the fact that real 100 percent silicone oil is not widely distributed.

    I read a report online two days ago about a guy who overhauled Saxby-Palmer air cartridges and his pump with WD-40. Had he asked me beforehand, I would have told him what that would do, which was destroy everything it touched. But to some people, WD-40 is good oil and they use it on everything.

    So I tell them NO, emphatically, and push Pellgunoil. If I were to push silicone oil, they would go to Home Depot and pick up a can that says silicone on the lable and proceed to destroy everything they came in contact with.

    B.B.

  • J.R. Says:

    B.B.
    But if pellgunoil is actually 30w non-detergent oil colored red, then can’t we just use the latter? Don’t get me wrong,I’m OK with giving Crosman the business,its just that pellgunoil is hard to find in my area (San Diego Co.).
    J.R.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    J.R.,

    Sure you can use motor oil. Like I said in one of my recent posts, straight non-detergent motor oil is what Daisy recommends for their guns.

    But not all airgunners want a quart of seal lube laying around. I have been working on 4 ounces for 8 years and there is still half left. And you know I almost drink the stuff!

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    I think it was Satchell Paige who has been credited for the quote “It ain’t what you know that gets you – its what you know, that ain’t so”.

    No sweat B.B. – everyone is entitled to a mistake now and again. Admitting that in public takes character – good for you!

  • Anonymous Says:

    Occtober 5, 2007- bb made a mistake. It was bound to happen. tisk tisk tisk…

    Only kidn bb.

    -sumo

  • Vince Says:

    BB, I don’t believe that silicone oil is as effective at lubricating metal-metal wear surfaces as petroleum-based products.

    But, of course, I could be wrong…

  • Anonymous Says:

    BB, I respect you even more now – and will know who you are soon too, isn’t that right. Interesting discussion on silicone. Here is a link to another blog with some more info., slightly different but none the less informative.
    BB, I respect you even more now – and will know who you are soon too, isn’t that right. Interesting discussion on silicone. Here is a link to another blog with some more info., slightly different but none the less informative.
    http://bsaog.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=442.0

    Ton

  • katmwz Says:

    BB,
    Making a misake won’t let others down, not facing up to it will. Keep up the great work.
    Quick question, why are spring guns supossed to be shot (with a pellet) instead of uncocking the gun? By uncocking I mean putting the same amount of pressure and grip on the barrel as if cocking it then pulling the trigger to release the piston and “slowly” allow the barrel to close. Will doing this harm the gun??

    Thanks

    kat

  • Anonymous Says:

    Sorry if this is a duplicate comment. First, I am the fink that told about you about the Yellow Forum heads up. I am glad to see that all is well and also that you deserve the accolades and kudos for your corrections and much info given!!! By the way, air tanks and oil was actually mentioned first on the forum – Pyramyd was mentioned by name first. Anyway, I was told to use FOOD grade silicone on my orings in my pcp guns and had no problems. I buy these from dive shops and Sports Authority. Please let me know if you heard anything detrimental. Pellet lube is VanHogs Boar oil or FP10.
    On a side note: Curious that you or Pyramyd was not told of this besides myself…Surely the Yellow Forum is exclusively read by airgunner – most very highly knowledgeable in this art/hobby. And many visit your site and blog. Why no feedback on this matter which could have had dire consequences on some unlucky user? All I can say is that we must help each other, for there are many antigunners waiting for any excuse (accidents, faulty products- recalling BBguns, etc) to hamper our beloved hobby.
    I apologize to anyone who takes the above wrongly. Take your best shot!
    All have a great day!!

  • Anonymous Says:

    BB,
    still lurk daily…

    First, simply could not stop laughing at stipulation #2 of when the Mrs asks you a question. Behind every great man is a woman who is telling him he’s wrong hehe

    second, and I cant believe the days have come when I’d quote my dad and beleive it…

    “the only people who make no mistakes are the ones who don’t do anything” … With the amount of info you dispence here it’ll happen agaian no doubt. probabply to a lesser degree, this was a biggie that could have blown up in your face (pun definitly intended). But how you dealt with the discovery is why I’m a fan and have always been around.

    Life isn’t about “plan A” it’s about “plan B”,

    Turtle

  • Anonymous Says:

    PS
    BTW you should take full liberty and edit out the suggestion to use the oil in the b50 blog…anywhere you can find it for that matter

    “Be damned” to any who may say you were trying to hide an error.

    hearing of your antifans saying you were trying to hide an error may be the last pill to swallow to make this right.

    The change is necessary for saftey and absolute clarity and is fully warrented for that alone.

    turtle

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Garden-variety silicone oil is definitely NOT recommended for metal-to-metal lubrication. I can’t recall anywhere that I recommended it for that.

    Consider chamber lube as garden-variety silicone oil.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Fink,

    No reason to apologise. As you recall, I even answered you that Pellgunoil is a synthetic – that’s how sure I was until I checked.

    I will always defer to safety in my writing. I have no pride of authorship that tops the safety of others. Our hobby needs the correct informations, if it’s to thrive.

    As far as I know, you are the only person who brought this up to Pyramyd Air, which says something.

    Thank you.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Turtle,

    Good to hear from you!

    On Oct. 18 when I reveal who I am, you may recall a phone conversation we had several years ago.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Turtle,

    I thought about editing out the reference to the improper use, but I decided it’s better to let everyone see the mistake, as long as I correct it at the same time. That way they will all see that anyone can make a mistake, and that safety is more important than anyone’s feelings or reputation.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    As I said then, Ive felt like I was plugged into some of the best people in the sport.

    turtle

  • bill Says:

    Hi B.B.

    Thanks for the great info. I need some clarification, though. You said, “Garden-variety silicone oil is definitely NOT recommended for metal-to-metal lubrication. I can’t recall anywhere that I recommended it for that. Consider chamber lube as garden-variety silicone oil.”

    Getting back to my original question, which was, “…is there any reason not to use pure silicon chamber oil exclusively for all lubrication needs?” to which you replied, “You ask if silicone oil can do everything Pellgunoil can, plus service PCPs. I would have to say yes, it can.”

    So I am a bit confused now by the differences between silicon oil (which you allow) and chamber lube (which you disallow).

    Are “chamber lubes” petrolium based?

    Is pure silicon chamber oil suitable for metal-to-metal applications? Is it not as good as a petrolium-based product like Pellgunoil?

    What makes “garden variety” silicon oil not suitable for m-to-m?

    Maybe you already have, but could you restate the definitive answer on what is and is not recommended and for what reasons?

    Thanks,
    Bill

  • Vince Says:

    I believe that pellgunoil is not recommended for metal-on-metal lubrication either, which explains why silicone can be used in its place.

    I think that metal-on-metal, like linkage pivots, trigger pins, and sliding piston-to-chamber lubrication is better handled by something entirely different… like moly paste or an oil/moly mix.

  • Anonymous Says:

    I must have missed something – how many people were killed by this mistake? No harm No foul I say and lets move on!
    Ozark

  • Anonymous Says:

    BB,

    check this out…

    http://imzcorp.com/en/info/12867.html

    -sumo

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Bill,

    You and I are not communicating.

    Pure (food-grade) silicone oil is for sealing – not for lubrication. Blended silicone oils are used as motor oils, so silicone is very versatile. But NO OILING METAL PARTS WITH SILICONE AIRGUN OIL!

    Chamber lubs are only pure silicone, and ARE NOT to be used for lubrication.

    You can buy a can of silicone spray at the hardware store, but while it does lubricate, it is not formulated for high-temperature applications like airgun chambers. THAT is what I referred to as a “garden-variety” silicone.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    “Surely the Yellow Forum is exclusively read by airgunner – most very highly knowledgeable in this art/hobby.”

    Well..I wouldn’t say MOST..There are a few select people on the Yellow who know their stuff. Personally I prefer my airgun information in well-written doses.

    While any philosopher will tell you that “knowledge” is indeed subjective, I have trusted my last four airgun purchases to the excellent reviews found here. I am quite pleased.

    I once saw a quote on the side of a blue taxi cab that read “We’re not yellow, we’ll go anywhere!”

    Keep up the great work, B.B.!

  • Anonymous Says:

    I have no doubt that because of this exposure, Crosman will be seriously looking at their Pellgun Oil product labeling. It should NOT be the average consumer’s responsibility to test this company’s products, or have to guess at their chemical compounds.

    “Specially developed formula. exclusive use for all high compression CO2 gas and air gun seals”

    The use of language regarding “high compression” and “air gun” is pretty darn broad.

    We are in a whole new world of HPA powered air guns, and it seems to me that Crosman needs to do a little catching up to prevent some serious litigation.

    caveat emptor, and all that.

  • Anonymous Says:

    j.r.

    Check out El Cajon Gun Exchange. They have some.

    Springer John

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Regarding the Pellgunoil labling, I believe you’re right.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    “Regarding the Pellgunoil labling, I believe you’re right.”

    Yer darn toot’n!

    Labeling for the consumer is a studied science. Words have to be chosen very carefully, and instructions very, very specific.

    I recall an article about a woman who overdosed and sadly died because of labeling on her prescribed medication.

    The label said:

    “Take once daily”

    So she followed the directions precisely and took 11 pills every day.

    “Once” is Spanish for eleven.

  • Jack Bauer Says:

    Hey B.B.,

    I was wondering if I should use pellgun oil on the breech seal of my air rifle, and my airsoft sniper rifle? I remember talking to a pyramydair person and he recommended it, but since most don’t really know what this stuff is I begin to wonder if he was wrong. Since it is petroleum based, then why does Crosman recommend it on their CO2 guns because petroleum eats through a rubber seal? Thanks!

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Jack,

    Crosman recommends Pellgunoil because it works. Blended petroleum products like 3-in-1 and others will destroy some seals, but apparently straight oil doesn’t.

    Use Pellgunoil on all CO2 applications. Silicone oil on all spring seal applications.

    B.B.

  • katmwz Says:

    BB,
    Did my earlier question about uncocking a springer get over looked or should it have it been posted on a different day?

    Thanks!

    Kat

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Kat,

    I didn’t see it. Please post again.

    B.B.

  • katmwz Says:

    BB,
    Why is it recommened to shoot a cocked springer(with a pellet) rather than carefully uncocking it by holding tightly onto the barrel, pulling it back slightly towards the stock and pulling the trigger then allowing the barrel to “slowly” rotate up? Will doing this harm the gun?

    Thanks!

    Kat

  • Tom Says:

    BB,
    I used a “3 in 1″ brand of silicone lubicant from home depot to lube my c02 airpistol. Then I found out it has petrolium distilate. Is my airgun messed? Or is it still fine? And is petrolium distilate that bad for my gun?

    Thanks

    Tom

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Tom,

    Perhaps not! Crosman Pellgunoil is really 20-weight motor oil with an O-ring preservative added. So it’s petroleum.

    Just watch the gun and see what happens. It won’t take long if the oil damages the seals.

    B.B.

  • Tom Says:

    B.B.

    Thanks, I used it for my airgun and shot over 3 bulbs of c02 while using the 3 in 1, works better then then before, more shot made. I will continue using it on my umarex ppks and see what happens. If all goes well I will continoue using 3 in 1 on the rest of the air gun. Also how many bulbs of c02 will I have to use to see if it damages the seals? Thanks

    Tom

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Tom,

    If it hasn’t damaged the seal yet, it’s not going to.

    B.B.

  • Tom Says:

    B.B.,

    Thanks alot for helping me, and one last question, how do you know if the seal is damaged? I’m a beginner at airguns so Im not sure. If its damaged can it still fire? What will happen? And if the gun’s seal is fine this co2 pistol using 3 in 1, will it have a chance to mess up another co2 pistols seal? Thanks alot for your help, this site is really awsome and helpful!

    Tom

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Tom,

    If the gun leaks, the seal is damaged. There is not just one seal – there are several.

    A fast leak can empty the gun in a minute. It’s loud and you will know it. A slow leak can empty the gun in anything from overnight to several months. The only way to tell is the charge the gun and let it sit.

    A gun with a slow leak will still fire. I have several that leak down over several months. I just put in a fresh cartridge when I want to shoot and don’t worry that any that’s left over will leak out. I leave all my CO2 guns charged all the time, and I have several that have been charged for over 5 years.

    I warn against using anything besides 20-weight oil or Crosman Pellgunoil because we don’t know what works and what doesn’t. But if 3-in-1 is working in one gun there is every reason to believe it will work in all of them.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Hi, I own a 392 benjamin sheridan for about 3 years, I noted a little less force to pump the rifle, I disassembled de valvle and a black/oily substance was covering the valvle, the pipe pump, and inner the valvle… I washed the valve just whit soap/water, but I think thas was caused by using “mendoza oil” to lubricate only the pivots and rivets in the pump arm, (what the manual said to be lubed)Here (zapopan, Mexico) never found “crosman pellgunoil”… Yesterday found “slim lub” a silicone base lub, this can be used to lub the metal parts that have friction???
    I think was a little damage to the sintetic seals, but not notorius as deforming it… I chroned the velocities and was very low… less than 560 fps whit 14.3 gr. here we have a height level over sea of 5200 feets
    Thanks for your comments…
    Enrique

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Enrique,

    Use Pellgunoil or 20-weight non-detergent oil, ONLY! The other stuff may harm your seals.

    Have you always stored the rifle with a pump of air? It sounds like you haven’t, and that will drop the velocity, too, as the seals harden

    Silicone oil is not often used for heavy lubrication. Use petroleum oil for that.

    At your altitude, you probably need to pump your rifle two additional times to compensate for the thinner air. Try that before anything else.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Crosman's MSDS says it's
    "Monolec GFS SAE 30 Engine Oil"
    http://www.crosman.com/pdf/msds/MSDS-PELLGUNOIL.pdf

  • Barton Smith Says:

    I suppose the formula for Pellgunoil might have changed over the years – and a transition from a silicone-based oil to a hydrocarbon-based oil would certainly be quite a change – but the owner's manual for my ca. 1967 Crosman model 99 pellet rifle states that one should use only "Special Crosman Silicone Formula Pellgunoil" to lubricate the rifle.

    I've heard that one should NEVER lubricate rubber and plastic seals and gaskets with hydrocarbon-based oil because it can cause deterioration of the elastomers. I belief this is why gasoline and diesel engines contain paper and cork gaskets.

  • Vince Says:

    Barton Smith, many gaskets ARE made of rubber in modern engines. In some cases replacement gaskets are available in both rubber and cork – with rubber being more expensive. And therein lies the advantage of cork.

    But generally speaking it is very common to see OEM valve cover/oil pan gaskets, fuel line hose, and cam/crank seals made of some form of plastic or rubber. It all depends on the formulation.

    Paper does work better in some applications because it is harder and compresses less, and the exact position or alignment of a gasketted joint can be held with greater precision or it might be less inclined to blow out.

    BTW – you might wanna pop over to http://www.pyramydair.com/blog for the latest discussions….

  • Anonymous Says:

    Folks, Let me share with you what I think I know about O-Rings. The most common rubber O-rings made are Nitrile Rubber, they are also the least expensive ones. See Reference http://www.airgunsmith.com/oringrating.htm

    According to reference http://www.oringsusa.com/html/compatibility.html
    Nitrile use is also very compatible with Gasoline, Crude, petroleum, Diesel, Mineral, and 10W30 Motor oil.

    According these two references Nitrile are the most common o-rings and most compatible with common lubricants we can find.

    I have been using Outers Gun Oil to lube the pump seals on my Crosman Pumpmaster Air Guns for the last 20 Years, and never had a seal related failure.

    My latest Pumpmaster (760D) which I owned for the last 3+ years has been lubricated regularly with the Outers oil and its still holding good pressure. When I run out of Outers Gun oil I plan to use any left over motor oil from an oil change on my cars.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Fair bit of confusion here. I doubt Crosman oil is petroleum based, as it was recommend for use on old Crosman guns which did not have synthetic O-rings and seals. Petroleum based lubes will attack those (and some synthetics, too). I assumed it was brake fluid, which is either glycol or silicone based.

    Pure silicone oil is a poor choice for modern spring gun chambers, although it was a good substitute for petroleum lubes in the days of leather washers in spring guns, and that was why Ladd Fanta promoted its use way back when. Modern guns require no additional lubes until they've had a few tens of thousands of pellets fired, at which point they should probably be rebuilt.

    WD-40 is a penetrant, not a lubricant. It's largely kerosene and DMSO (a detergent.)

    Rotating metal-to-metal elements in air guns should be lubed with a very few drops of a good gun oil. ATF is actually a good choice here. Sliding parts outside the compression chamber should be given a thin wipe of a lithium grease.

  • Vince Says:

    Anonymous, check out the MSDS linked in the blog. It's an SAE 30 motor oil.

    The current blogs are over at:

    http://airgun-academy.pyramydair.com/blog/

    Pop on over!

  • Anonymous Says:

    Automatic transmission fluid…. ATF…Big profits for sure

  • Trawler Says:

    I have something I get from maplins in the UK called Silicone grease. I tip all my CO2 cartridges with that. Seems to work. I'm not destroying my guns am I?

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Trawler,

    If it seems to work, then it's probably fine. Silicone is good for this job, but I would think grease would be too viscous. But silicone grease is almost oil — or at least the diver's grease is, so I think you are okay.

    If this is silicone car grease then I would stop using it and switch to 20-weight motor oil. Car grease is too viscous for the inside of a CO2 valve.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Trawler,

    If it seems to work, then it's probably fine. Silicone is good for this job, but I would think grease would be too viscous. But silicone grease is almost oil — or at least the diver's grease is, so I think you are okay.

    If this is silicone car grease then I would stop using it and switch to 20-weight motor oil. Car grease is too viscous for the inside of a CO2 valve.

    B.B.

  • Trawler Says:

    Thanks very much B.B.

    The grease is for use in electrical machinery with moving parts such as the fan in a computer or such like. It can withstand extreme temperatures which is why it's used in firearms too.

    It is pretty viscous though. It comes out of a tube like a toothpaste tube. Maybe I'll try 20-weight motor oil instead.

    I meant to ask another question. (The original reason I came across your blog). There seems to be divided opinion on whether you can leave 88g co2 cylinders in your gun for extended periods. I know this isn't a good idea with 12g but surely the seals in an 88g would be designed to withstand longer periods due to the size of the cylinder?

    I've taken apart a few of my older pistols and can understand the reasons for not leaving 12g cylinders in. (Actually I create my own seals these days using cheap hot water bottles and a lever hole punch now so don't have to worry so much :-). However I've just invested in the Walther lever action (nice) and am loath to experiment with it.

    Any advice would be really appreciated. Cheers B.B.

    T

  • B.B.Pelletier Says:

    Trawler,

    I leave the 88-gram cylinders in my guns. Most leak out in a year, but a couple hold.

    B,.B.

  • Trawler Says:

    Thanks very much B.B. I think I'll try that.

    Personally I think the fact that the design of these cartridges is proprietory to umarex does beg the question as to why the primary seal is not located on the nossle of the cylinder. They are quite expensive after all and an extra bit of rubber / cork isnt going to break them.

    That said I'm not a mechanical engineer so I may be talking bollocks if you'll pardon the expression.

    Most appreciated.

    T

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Trawler,

    The 88-gram CO2 cartridges aren't proprietary. They are a standard in the industry. You can get them from many sources — check it out online.

    B.B.

  • Trawler Says:

    Yes so they are. The cheek of it. I have been misled. Still the cylinders are unique to the air gun industry as far as I can tell.

    Which is better non detergent or detergent 20 weight motor oil?

    Thanks for all the info B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Trawler,

    Non-detergent is best.

    B.B.

  • Trawler Says:

    Someone has told me the best to use is 5w 30 fully synthetic motor oil. (I've discovered it's quite difficult for us to get 20 weight non detergent motor oil in the UK as our cars are quite different on the whole to your own). What would you say to that B.B?

    I don't want to use anything that could ruin the seals but the explanations I was given for its effectiveness make sense.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Trawler,

    I only say what Daisy recommends, which is 20-weight oil. If synthetic oil works, and I don't see why it wouldn't, then use it by all means.

    B.B.

  • Trawler Says:

    Thanks once again for all your advice B.B.

    Kind regards

    T

  • Trawler Says:

    Hey there BB. Me again. I picked up some silicone oil from my local air gun retailer who told me that any motor oil would trash the seals. I didn't quite believe him but having done a load of research online it turns out motor oil is indeed a rubber solvent.

    Am I being misinformed here?

    Thanks in advance BB.

    T

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Trawlwe,

    Consider this — cars have rubber parts and use motor oil that doesn't seem to damage them.

    I would find a new dealers. This one is either ignorant or deceitful.

    B.B.

  • Trawler Says:

    I think you're right B.B.

    I told him that my motorcycle had rubber composite gaskets in it and he couldn't really answer that. He tried to say that most gaskets were plastic but I think he realised as he was saying it that they would just melt.

    On the whole the shop is a good one and its run by a nice family so perhaps it was just a flippant comment.

    It did however spark my curious side so I had a look on line and there were differing schools of opinion on motor oil being a rubber solvent. If you've happily used it on your CO2 gun seals for a while then I'm happy. (I'm assuming you have?)

    Where are you from B.B. ?

    Cheers

    Tom

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Trawler.

    I have used Crosman Pellgunoil for 20 years, and yes, it is comprised of 20-weight motor oil. Not only does it seal airguns, it fixes many of the older leakers, as well.

    I live in Texas.

    B.B.

  • Trawler Says:

    From what i can tell from research outside the scope of air guns it expands rather than solves the rubber? This would explain why it fixes old leakers possibly. Anyway I hope we've well and truly put this discussion to bed! I shan't be asking you any more about this particular topic.

    Many thanks for all your advice and hello from London UK.

    Tom

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Trawler,

    First off, you need to come to the current blog to post things. This old blog is no longer supported and will soon be history.

    Go here:

    http://airgun-academy.pyramydair.com/blog/

    Pellgunoil doesn't expand the seals. It does what oil does in your car — it surrounds the seal with a film of oil that seals the gun. Though oil seems thin to us, at the molecular level it is tough and can hold back a lot of pressure.

    B.B.

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