The rifle that created the artillery hold! by Tom Gaylord from Pyramyd Air” /> The rifle that created the artillery hold!, airguns report post” />

Tuesday, May 19, 2009

The Beeman C1 - Part 1
The rifle that created the artillery hold!

by B.B. Pelletier


Despite the size of this photo, the C1 is a small rifle. The western look was unique in its day. The scope is a 2-7x32 BSA.


I have places in my heart reserved for certain air rifles. The FWB 124 has a spot, as does the Beeman R1. And there's another place that's reserved for the Beeman C1. It's no longer made. In fact, the company that once made it--Webley--has also disappeared from the world stage. But the C1s that are in the world are wonderful air rifles that deserve a look from us.

My first C1 was a compromise gun--something I know many of you readers can relate to. I really wanted an R1, but at the time we didn't have the money to stretch that far, so I bought the C1 as the best compromise. The difference was $189 and $249, as close as I can recall. That little bit made the decision for me.

At least this was a Beeman rifle, even if it wasn't one made by Weihrauch. Little did I know then how much that C1 carbine was going to influence my future as an airgun writer.

The rifle is a tad over 38 inches long, and the barrel accounts for 14 inches of that. The rifle weighs 6.3 lbs. 

My C1 was a .177, while the one I'm reviewing for you now is a .22. I can remember being very impressed when I saw the gun for the first time. Beeman really knew how to present an air rifle in their reinforced cardboard boxes. The rated velocity was 830 f.p.s. for a broken-in gun in .177. Beeman also listed a .22 caliber version, but I never heard much about it back when it was still being made, so this test will be very revealing.

My C1 had a manual safety on the right side of the rifle, located at the rear of the spring tube. The .22 rifle I'm testing for you has no safety, so it has to be an earlier rifle. The rifle was made from 1981 to 1996 according to the Blue Book of Airguns. And here's a curious note--although the Blue Book says importation began after serial number 800,000, the serial number on my rifle is 771,894. And my new rifle is clearly marked with Beeman's San Rafael address.

When it was new, my first C1 was quite stiff and hard to cock. The trigger was also very stiff. To say I was disappointed by the shooting performance was an understatement! After hearing all the good things about precision adult air rifles and having already owned an FWB 124, this C1 was a boat anchor in comparison. But it was all I had, so I stuck with it.

After about 2,000 rounds had passed through the rifle, I began noticing that the cocking had smoothed out. At first I thought it was my imagination, but then I started noticing that the firing behavior was smoother, as well. After 3,000 rounds the trigger started getting very light and, if not exactly crisp, at least predictable.

About that time I disassembled the rifle to see what I could do to improve it. What I was thinking, I'll never know, because I hadn't a clue how to tune a spring gun. The Beeman R1 book was still five years in the future. Black tar hadn't been discovered by airgunners yet. It existed, but it was not known to the airgun community, so we used Beeman's Mainspring Dampening Compound instead. It did pretty much the same thing, though it wasn't as viscous, and you had to use a lot more of it.

Fortunately, I also didn't own a chronograph yet, either, so I had no idea how fast my rifle was shooting. I trusted the Beeman catalog implicitly.

Use a mainspring compressor!
While either disassembling or assembling my C1 a curious thing happened and I got the first photo to go into the R1 book. The heavy solid steel end cap got away from me, sailed across the room and broke a desk drawer divider in two! Had my arm been there instead, I'm thinking it might have been broken--bruised for certain. I instantly understood the need for a mainspring compressor!


The C1 end cap hit this desk divider to the right of the crack (see the dent in the wood) and busted it in two.


The other curious thing about my C1 was that it taught me how to shoot a spring-piston air rifle. The wisdom of that day said to hold a spring rifle firmly. I was doing that and those beautiful groups my rifle was supposed to be capable of were eluding me. On my 10-meter basement range I could group five good pellets into about one-third inch when everything went well.

The birth of the artillery hold
One day, I decided to see just how inaccurate the rifle would be if I didn't restrain it at all. So, I laid the forearm across my open palm and caressed the wrist only enough to pull the trigger. The butt simply touched my shoulder without bearing on it. And the next group I shot measured 0.13"! That day was the birth of the artillery hold, though it wasn't until The Airgun Letter that I gave it a name, because I wanted to be able to discuss it in my articles without having to describe the procedure every time. People had been holding firearms that way for decades, but this was a change for airgunners.

I was so shocked by this revelation that I wrote my first airgun article about this phenomenon and sent it to Robert Beeman to put in his next catalog. When I didn't hear back from him I was disappointed, but I kept on refining that hold, because my rifle shot so well.


The rear sight on this new C1 is a Williams adjustable. It's not original to the rifle but is an upgrade.


My C1 is sold
Several years later, Edith and I were doing much better and she gave me not one but two air rifles for Christmas--a new R1 and a used HW 77 carbine. Those rifles took over my attention and within a few more years the C1 was gone. At the time I said things like, "Who needs three perfect airguns?" and "I can always buy another one if I really want it."

The C1 slipped quietly out of production soon after Robert Beeman sold the company in 1994 and was replaced for a short time by the Beeman Bearcub--the last model to carry any genes from the gun that had been the C1. The western stock went away as well, and the Bearcub was 100 f.p.s. faster than the C1 had been.

Why I missed the C1
For several years after selling the C1, I was fine, but then I started missing it. I missed the ease of use and the compact size, but most of all I missed the splendid accuracy that issued forth from that little breakbarrel. I also missed being able to hold it up to show people what a nice airgun was supposed to look like.

And a strange thing happened. As much as I had told myself I could always buy another one, they weren't showing up at the airgun shows. I see about as many C1s for sale as I see Sheridan Supergrades, and that's not many. So, when I saw the current one on Dave Franz's table at Little Rock this year, I was excited. It took a big trade to bring the rifle into my gun room, but it was worth it. Now I have a vintage airgun to test that I have absolutely no experience with--a .22 caliber C1. I'm sure we'll all have a fine time learning about this one.

55 Comments:

At May 19, 2009 8:01 AM, Anonymous wayne said...

Good Morning B.B.

Now that's a spring gun I could love!!

How does it compare with the R-7? ... or R-9?.. sound like it's in the middle, as far as fps..

I too like the western style stock, very handsome!!

Oh BTW, I bought a Kimber "goverment" .22 target single shot rifle yesterday...(actually traded mostly the Ruger Hawkeye .223 I didn't like as well as the Howa 1500 .223)..
It weighs 10 lbs, heavy bull barrel, very thick walnut stock.. It just lays there... so steady, even off hand for me!

It was made in OREGON too!! .. so How could I say no? It's in excel. shape too.. I'm a happy camper once again!!

Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range

 
At May 19, 2009 8:14 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Wayne,

The C1 is in between the R7 and R9 like you said. Probably closer to the R9.

Love that Kimber!

B.B.

 
At May 19, 2009 8:28 AM, Anonymous wayne said...

B.B.

No need to instruct me to "Love Her".. that happened when "I saw her standing there" as the Beatles once said.. (I know, you're saying you love her too, but I had to work in the song one)..

Then I held her and it was a done deal!! Love at first sight!!

Do you know the story of Kimber in Oregon? I think I heard the pawn shop guy say they sold out to someone in New York or something..

I just got her last night and quickly changed scopes... She is so quiet on CBs that I sighted her in last night in the pool room while they watched tv..

It didn't take long.. 6 shots and the last two made one hole, so I put up another dot and without any fuss at all 5 in the same 5/16" hole.. I didn't want to smoke up the pool room, so I quit, but I can hardly wait to get to the range.. ( I think I feel a supply run coming up)..

This is a winner for sure.. The pawn shop guy said Kimber made about 20,000 of these for a government contract as a training rifle, and later used them to compete.. It actually is called a "Government" on the gun..

Wayne

 
At May 19, 2009 8:32 AM, Anonymous wayne said...

B.B.

That's also a great lesson for me.. about selling your first C-1.. It's isn't that easy to get another one as time goes by!!..

Our supergrade friend is still considering my offer..

Would you have guessed that it would be as hard to get another C-1 as a supergrade those years later?

A gun that is easy to find now, could be much harder and more expensive in only a few years.. is what I'm getting from your lesson..

Wayne

 
At May 19, 2009 9:03 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB-
I'm thinking if you had never sold an airgun you'd have as many as Cecil Whiteside!

 
At May 19, 2009 9:32 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB
I have to relate to you some good fortune I had. About a year a go I place a ad in the local newspapers for air rifles. A junk dealer called me and had a C1 for sale for $50.00. Well the rest is history, I had it tuned and it is one remarkable gun. Again good luck hit. I was in a fire arms store and sitting on the wall in the corner was a Beeman C1. Brand new, never shot. I walked out of the store thinking I was seeing things. I returned and asked the owner behind the desk and he stated that indeed it was new and he had found it back in the warehouse where it had been in storage for years. I picked it up on a super deal. Lesson to be learned: You never know where your next great air gun might be hiding. These really are terrific air guns. By the way,one is without the safety and the other with.

Regards

Dave Sawyer

 
At May 19, 2009 9:47 AM, Anonymous wayne said...

Dave,

Great story and lesson for just going out there and looking around!


I told you I felt a "supply run" coming on.. here it is.. and off I go now..
talk at you later..

Wayne

 
At May 19, 2009 10:25 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Dave,

There is an old salesman's saw, "You gotta make the calls if you wanna make the sales!"

Well done!

B.B.

 
At May 19, 2009 10:35 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB-
This blog on the C1 is a great for me as I saw this post on the Yellow yesterday but didn't know much about the C1. The Supergrade is a different story however. Imagine this guy's luck: http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1242619601/First+time+foray+find%21

 
At May 19, 2009 10:38 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Referencing yesterdays blog.
BG Farmer...I was amazed at the difference between the Meisterkuglen and the R-10's. They look the same, so I assumed for the last year that there was no need to spend the extra $4 tin for the R-10's.
Then a friend let me try them. My first thought was that these would be poorer shooters than the MK because they didn't seat as tightly in the breech as the MK.
Problem was, once I resighted my 853 it was as though they were magnetically attracted to that little . that is the 10 on a proper 10m target. Easily nailing it 4 or 5 shots out of 5. With the MK's it was more like 2 out of 10 with the odd 8. Haven't strayed into the 8 ring since I started using the R-10 a month ago.
Same happened with the Gamo Compact. With the MK's I had gotten to the point where I could consistently keep 5 shots in the black bull. With the R-10 I can keep all 5 shots clustered in the 9-10 rings.
Now a question for b.b. Both of these guns, though budget 'target' shooters do have target barrels of some sort (Lothar Walther on the 853, not sure about the Gamo). Would one see as big a difference on a non target barrel such as the 953 has?
CowBoyStar Dad

 
At May 19, 2009 10:55 AM, Anonymous Casey said...

Regarding the Super Grade and the C1 - yes, we got amazingly lucky. Two great, historical guns at the same time! We wanted to share our experience with the great airgunning community. We are still pinching ourselves!

 
At May 19, 2009 11:11 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.

Looking forward to more details on the C1.

I still have a HW77 in .22, not .177. They have not been available in .22 in the US market for a while and I have no intention of selling mine. Don't want to have to try to find another. The odd thing is that you can still get the 77 in .22 in Canada and England. Maybe the .22 did not sell well here? I bought mine back in 1986.

Paul

 
At May 19, 2009 11:18 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

CSD,

I'm not sure what you are asking.

B.B.

 
At May 19, 2009 12:02 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

b.b. do premium pellets make as big a difference in a less expensive barrel. I've been using RWS Hobby pellets in both my Slavia and CP99 and am just wondering if I could get better accuracy by going to a premium pellet.
I did some testing of various pellets for these guns, but considering they weren't 'target' guns I concentrated on the less expensive pellets in each manufacturers lineup.
So I guess what I'm asking is would going to a premium pellet make as much difference in these barrels as it appears to in the Lothar Walther barrel?
Thanks,
CowBoyStar Dad

 
At May 19, 2009 12:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.

A choice based on economy? I can relate to that. And you see sometimes it works. He he. I'm still astonished at how the Beeman catalog could advertise great groups while instructing people to use a firm hold. Either they were withholding the loose hold technique, or they were somehow shooting great groups with a firm hold, or they were simply lying about the groups. It doesn't make sense.

Wayne, man, I can hardly keep up with you. The Howa 1500 sold? The Kimber 82 brings back interesting memories. Back in the 80s when I was first paging through gun magazines, the Kimber rimfires were supposed to be the class act--centerfire quality and accuracy with a rimfire price for ammo. Now, it seems that the Civilian Marksmanship Program is selling the government target versions still in the original bags at a low price. However, the word online is that while these are a good deal, the accuracy has been surpassed by modern rimfires.

Speaking of which, I read the other day about a guy making a half inch 10 shot group at 50 yards with an Anschutz 1907. No better than the S410! You might also consider the Savage BTVS which is supposed to shoot as well.

CowboyStar Dad, my guess at your question is that the reduced accuracy of the 953 barrel would subtract from the accuracy gained by the R-10 pellets, so you would not see the same gain in accuracy as with the 853. However, I'm getting more and more motivated to try out these R-10s.

Matt61

 
At May 19, 2009 12:37 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

CSD,

They can, if the non-premium barrel is uniform and well-made. That's a chancy thing on some guns (Chinese) but not on guns like the 953.

B.B.

 
At May 19, 2009 1:03 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB
By the way that $35.00 ad also pickup up this gun.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh144/dvbch/008-1.jpg

a mint condition Beeman R7 Santa Rosa.
I might ad, that I receive ten's of calls from Crosman owner's wanting to sell. I did not know a lot about them, but I am sure there was a lot of good deals there.

Dave

 
At May 19, 2009 1:07 PM, Anonymous Benny said...

I've had a Webley Victor for a few years now. It's a scaled down version of the Vulcan for smaller shooters. The stock is shorter and it is only 9-10 ft/lbs instead of the Vulcan's 14. I have always wondered if the C1's western stock would fit my Victor. The Victor was only made on 1982 and has no safety like the C1 in your picture. Do you know of any other differences?

 
At May 19, 2009 1:26 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Benny,

I don't know anything about the Victor, but I do believe that the C1 is an earlier version of the Vulcan. So your rifle may indeed be the same gun.

But where would you get a C1 stock?

B.B.

 
At May 19, 2009 1:27 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Dave,

That ad did really good for you! That R7 was a real find.

B.B.

 
At May 19, 2009 2:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have a question about the artillery hold. Should I have the heel of my hand against the trigger guard and my fingers pointed towards the barrel, hand open flat? I think this is what you are describing, but not exactly sure.

Also, I am jumping over here from the blog on the avenger. I am the same person having trouble making up my mind comparing the avenger to the TF 99 and the TF 59. I think I have made up my mind to get the TF 59 (needing an accurate .22 for ridding myself of unwanted attic guests, but also for fun) but then I also just read your test of the RWS 34 Panther and now am confused again. The 34P is almost exactly $100 more and therefore out of my budget at the moment. I'm wondering though, should I be patient and start saving again to get the 34P or just go ahead already and get the TF 59? Maybe an impossible question for you to answer definitively, but just figured I'd throw it out there.

I guess what I'd be looking for is a resounding YES definitely save your money until you can afford the 34P and you'll live a long happy life, (with the TF 59, eh...not so much.) What say ye?

Thanks again.

 
At May 19, 2009 2:47 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

I say buy the TF 59 right now. And Pyramyd Air doesn't even sell that rifle, so I'm throwing away a sale to tell you that.

My reasoning is this: you don't know what you don't know about airguns. The TF 59 is going to get you going, which will make the next round of questions different than if we tried to decide which purchase would make you happier.

Let's get you into an airgun today.

On the artillery hold, don't worry where your fingers are pointed. And they won't exactly be pointed towards the muzzle. They will be on an angle to one side of the muzzle.

The heel of your hand is touching the triggerguard. I will soon have a video for you to watch. I will tell you when it is ready.

B.B.

 
At May 19, 2009 2:55 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks B.B. I appreciate all of your advice and have really enjoyed reading your blogs! Especially the 'need for speed' I definitely saw myself in that one. I also enjoyed the one on the five stages of an airgunner.

I'll let you know how I find the TF 59 when it comes.

 
At May 19, 2009 3:17 PM, Anonymous BG_Farmer said...

CowboyStarDad,
I think your post was one I had in mind when I said that about R-10 Match, but I also have seen a couple of similar observations elsewhere. Its funny you should mention the loose fit -- Hobby's fit tightly, while Basics are merely snug; Basics shoot better for me (as good as 0.15" C-t-C in my Hammerli 490). Crosman pointed pellets work as well in my 36-2 as some much more expensive pellets, and they are not tight at all, either.

I think there's some actual reasoning behind all the RWS/DN (not to mention JSB) pellet offerings, but the information is not easy to find:). I'd be happy just to have a clear choice of weight and head/skirt diameters.

 
At May 19, 2009 4:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB, neat article on the C1.

Another question, I saw a Marksman
.177 air rifle in a local shop. It was made in Germany and has a heavy barrel. I don't see any model number on it.

Do you know what it is?

How good?

Thanks

Mike

 
At May 19, 2009 4:08 PM, Blogger kevin said...

Mike,

Marksman is akin to Beeman in that they don't make their guns other manufacturers make the guns and stick the "Marksman" label on them. Among others, milbro diana, BSA, Weihrauch/BSF and Anschutz made guns for Marksman.

You need to find the model number in order for us to help you.

kevin

 
At May 19, 2009 4:29 PM, Blogger ajvenom said...

vid e o

vid e o

vid e o

vid e o

 
At May 19, 2009 4:35 PM, Blogger Ishaq said...

Hey Anonymous,

I have the 34P for one week now, and Im loving it. Bang on deadly accurate, with good velocity. Made extremely well and if you buy the UTG scope mount base you will never have to worry about scope shift again! Its certainly better then the Gamos IMO!

 
At May 19, 2009 4:39 PM, Blogger Ishaq said...

Hey BB,

I just want to say thanks for influencing my decision to buy the 34P. I love the gun, and thanks to all the guys who recommended the Leapers scope.

Ishaq.

 
At May 19, 2009 5:48 PM, Anonymous Benny said...

Hey Mike, I think it was the Marksman 58 that had the heavy barrel. Same as the HW98 or Beeman R11 but without the adjustable stock.

 
At May 19, 2009 6:56 PM, Anonymous wayne said...

Evening all,

On the matter of low cost pellets for low cost guns, I'm of the thought that the lower the cost of the gun the more you need high cost or high quality pellets!!

Finding the fit in the barrel is the most important thing in my mind, then the consistent size/weight of each pellet.. for me that means JSB or CP in the box, (if you clean and lube them)

Matt61,

I said I traded the Ruger Hawkeye M77 .223 for the Oregon made "Kimber 82 government target" in .22lr ..

..because I like the Howa 1500 BETTER than the Ruger Hawkeye (cost almost $700).. The Howa 1500 cost way less ($375 on sale, display model).. and came with a real nice Nikko scope to boot!..

So... no.. I still have and love the Howa 1500 in .223 and I've got a Howa 1500 in 30.06 on order for $435 with the 4-12x40AO Nikko scope! .. rounding out my caliber inventory for Elk and smaller game.. (I'll add African Safari calibers... if I win the national Field Target contest and go to South Africa this year:):):):):):):).. LOL. LOL.

About the same chance as Tom doing the limbo!! ..at 48"..

A Wacky Wayne Idea for sure!!

 
At May 19, 2009 6:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Benny;

I think you are right. It also does not have any provision for iron sites. The quality seems good
to look at it.

Mike

 
At May 19, 2009 8:11 PM, Anonymous Red said...

BB, What ever happened to Webly ?

 
At May 19, 2009 8:43 PM, Blogger CJr said...

This looks like a good rifle for my Gkids, or for me, even.

Just got home at 4am from Az. I drove 1,000 miles the second day. I won't do that again but at the time it seemed silly to spend for lodging when there was only 5 more hours to go.

BB, does the current Gamo Recon still have the lousy scope? Your review was last July...I was wondering if they listened to you and upgraded it...I know, I'm naive.

I really liked the feel of that gun at the show and I was thinking of getting one for my Gkids to use. They need some break barrel experience. I think that 16lb cocking effort is a bonus. Would you still recommend it or is there something else I should consider?

Which brings up a question. Are those all stock guns at the range? Have any of them been customized or tuned?

I'm going to write more about the range at the show later because it was unique and I want to talk about the Edge. I'm pretty sure it was stock.

-Chuck

 
At May 19, 2009 8:47 PM, Anonymous BG_Farmer said...

Well, I broke my long-standing policy against going to gun stores today, because there was one that seems to support a lot of the events at my shooting club. Big mistake. First, I called to see if they had the rifle I intended to buy. The person on the phone said "not sure, maybe, come see". Anyway, I went only to find they did have the exact model I asked about 2ft. behind the phone, but in a different caliber. No problem, except when I asked about ordering, the answer was similar to the one on the phone; my confidence in the place was shot at that point, although I had intended to come home with or order the rifle right then.

Anyhoo, they also had some CZ rimfires, which I've been hearing and reading a lot about. First I was shown the basic Trainer and told it was an American. When I pointed out that that stock was not at all American, the information was received with some disbelief. The price tag was in line with what other sources are charging for the American with fancy walnut stock, however:).

Finally, at one point I was shown a Lux model with a price of $257. After looking at a couple more, I asked for it back and pointed out that the price was almost certainly wrong. My guess is that it was intentional, but they made a good show of pretending that the tag was in error. Considering their markup was consistently 40% over other retail outlets, its hard to believe they would have let a low price slide.

On top of all this, I had to wait a significant time (20 minutes) before getting such excellent service, while some likely employee's/DD-214's discussed their "special ops" (more likely KP) training, punctuating their tales of daring deeds with striking poses with AR15's.

Yes, it is better to buy guns (including airguns) at a large department or sporting goods store or online -- you never have to wait long for service and while you are not likely to be told anything you don't already know, at least you aren't likely to be told any lies. Incidentally, the owner looked exactly like the video store owner from the Simpsons:).

 
At May 19, 2009 9:10 PM, Blogger Devin said...

B.B.,

I came across your website looking for information on my old sheridan air rifle and it seems that you're the go-to guy on air rifles.

I'm trying to repair my old rocker safety style sheridan silver streak c-series air rifle. It no longer holds compression, so I'm trying to disassemble it to change the gaskets.

Using advice from one of your previous posts,I got so far as to grind down a socket to make a square tool to unscrew the valve guide retainer nut. I removed it along with the lead gasket behind it, but now I dont know how to remove the remaining valve components. Does that vavlve guide behing the lead gasket have to be unscrewed or should it come out with a good bang?

Also, if I manage to remove all components and get my hands on some replacement parts, how do I reinstall the lead gaskets?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Hope you can help.

Thanks,
Devin

 
At May 19, 2009 9:42 PM, Blogger Makun said...

I just got my custom made air rifle from crosman's gun shop that is based off of the 2250. It has been a real pleasure to shoot. I had it made with the 24" .22 barrel. I seem to only be getting about 25-30 powerful shots from the 12 gram powerlet. I am looking to do a bulk fill conversion that cooper-t sells but both their email and phone number has not been working for me. They seem to be not operating anymore. I am wondering if you know if this is true and if so, do you know of another place where I can buy a similar bulk fill kit.

Thank you and happy air gunning:D

 
At May 19, 2009 10:03 PM, Anonymous Volvo said...

Bg-Farmer,

Nice commentary. Most gun shops seem to have taken customer service lessons from the local DMV. The recent run on handguns and ammo I fear has only added to this. That is reason number 10 for favoring airguns over firearms.
The only thing new I’ve added of late is the Makarov pistol. First impression is very favorable. I am not a huge handgun fan but it beats my lone Crosman pistol hands down. For $59.95 it appears to be a steal.

Volvo

 
At May 19, 2009 11:19 PM, Anonymous BG_Farmer said...

Volvo,
Thanks, I thought it was just me, although several respectable looking people came and went without getting any service also:). I have to admit that I've just never liked the gun store atmosphere, anyway. Maybe they could sense that I have absolutely zero interest in an AR15.

The Makarov looks like fun -- see if you can beat BB's groups and let us know when you do:).

 
At May 20, 2009 12:04 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.

I've been reaping the benefits of the artillery hold and didn't even know that the heel of the non-trigger hand is touching the trigger guard. I thought the hold was determined by the rifle. Touching the trigger guard now would feel weird to me, but I'll think about it.

The PA newsletter received today quotes you as saying that the FWB 700 is an outgrowth of the P70. Is that because of the the addition of the recoil buffering system described? Is there anything else to it?

Wayne, that's interesting that you preferred the Howa over the Ruger M77 which seems to be a much better-known model. Let us know how the Kimber works out. Borrowing again from today's PA newsletter, have you thought of getting the Air Arms Evanix field target rifle? That would be the equivalent of the FWB for field target. And for rimfires, what about an Anschutz 1907? I don't believe any rifle maker has dominated its field the way that Anschutz has Olympic shooting. Maybe the equivalent would be Mausers for bolt-action rifles in the early 20th century.

BG_Farmer, by no means are you alone in your gun store experience. I dropped in on one to pick up Crosman powerlets, and they had no idea what I was talking about; they sold only the airsource cartridge. When they caught on, they hooted with laughter and hinted that I was clearly behind the times because the only place I would find the powerlets was at a barber's!?

We'll pass over the lunatic dealer who almost cheated/mismanaged me out of my Savage rifle and go on to the bunch who transferred the SW1911 for me. All they had to do was be normal, and they would have looked great. But they were not. One guy alternated between being voluble and excessively helpful on one visit to acting like he had never seen me before on the next visit. On another occasion, he and his colleague dressed in the regulation black outfits with combat boots were holding combat knives when I walked in and took me under observation without moving the knives. This same colleague was affectless in a way that reminded me of a psychological disorder. On another occasion when I inquired about a gun case, this pair tried to steer me to a ridiculously overpriced model. One of their points was the way the very quiet salesman could store his AK47 with plenty of room for his bayonet and ammunition pouches. Where do they get these guys? Online is the only way to go.

Are you thinking CZ? I've been looking at the models you mention, and they are mouthwatering.

Matt61

 
At May 20, 2009 6:51 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Devin,

You only have to ask your question in one place. I see all comments, plus there are a few old-timers on this blog who also see all of them.

Regarding your Sheridan disassembly question, I don't know the answer, so I'm sending you to the Crosman/Benjamin forum. Sheridan is now a part of Crosman and this is where the guys who know hang out:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/581291/

B.B.

 
At May 20, 2009 6:58 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Matt,

I really don't know what is different about the P700 from the P70. I assume more ergonomics, but I haven't researched it. Why don't you look into it for me? I('d enjoy knowing.

B.B.

 
At May 20, 2009 7:09 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Red,

Webley has had financial problems for many years. They reorganized a couple times and the last time they went out of business as Webley on Dec. 31 and came back as an offshoot of Webley the next day.

But that's not really what you want to know. The company that made innovative airguns passed from the scene several years ago. Just as Winchester and Colt no longer exist as the original company, Webley has not been Webley for quite some time.

B.B.

 
At May 20, 2009 7:13 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

CJR,

I thought you lived in AZ! Wow!

You may safely assume that any combo sold will have the cheapest scope they can find. If there is ever an exception, I will point it out. Combos are to spur sales--not to sell ideal shooting sets, unfortunately.

B.B.

 
At May 20, 2009 8:32 AM, Blogger woguph said...

BB, I am glad you got the C1. I have to tell a story on myself about that C1. Not this year, but last year that C1 bugged me the whole show. When ever I went over to Dave Franz's table I would spin the C1 to the back so others might not notice it. I kept thinking I could sell something and buy it. Well, that didn't work out. I have a .177 C1 anyway and by this year I was not bugged too much by Dave's C1. I even mentioned it to a few people, including yourself as a good deal.

I do love the straight stock on the C1. If I ever custom stock my Lightning, it will have a similar straight stock.

My brother, Bryan, has done trigger jobs on both his C1 and mine as well. They have really nice triggers now.

It always amazes me how much a C1 weights when I pick it up. It feels like a solid block of steel. I showed my C1 to a friend the other day and he couldn't believe how heavy it was for such a small rifle. It's not really that heavy, but is just heavier than it looks like it would be.

Here is a good article on the C1 by Jim Chapman: http://www.americanairgunhunter.com/webc1.html

David Enoch

 
At May 20, 2009 8:39 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

David,

I know how you felt last year. I wanted the BSF S70 the same way and it just didn't work out. I was glad to get this rifle, plus the fact that it is a .22 allows me to learn about that caliber in this action.

As for the stock, I guess that is the main thing that attracts me to the rifle.

B.B.

 
At May 20, 2009 9:19 AM, Anonymous wayne said...

Matt,

Yes I found it interesting too, I had bought an older Ruger M77 in .270 about a year ago... It's like a different rifle! The action on the old one is much smoother. It loads much better, it feeds much smoother, it has a better trigger, it's just a better gun than the new one..

I also bought an older Ruger M77 in .22 mag.. again a much better quality rifle than the new one!!

Just like B.B. found on today's blog on the 1911 pistol.. manufactures tend to go for profits off there name.. rather than keeping up the quality over time.. it's a sad thing and a bad business move in this world of internet word of mouth!!

Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range

 
At May 20, 2009 9:26 AM, Blogger woguph said...

I finally figured out why the straight stock works for me and is uncomfortable to others. I shoot with my elbow high. I saw that in a Guns and Ammo back when I was a kid and thought it looked cool and so that's how I hold a rifle. I have figured out that holding your elbow up rotates your wrist for a straight stock. I guess this type of hold was developed for military rifles which have straight stocks. If you hold your elbow down, a stock with a well developed pistol grip is more comfortable.

David Enoch

 
At May 20, 2009 1:01 PM, Blogger OMB1080 said...

Hi again everyone! I know it's been a while since I commented here last, but i figured I'd let everyone know that the walther lever action rifle I was having so much trouble has been cleared up and is the perfect target practice rifle. I do have a question to pose to everyone though. I've been shooting air rifles for a long while now, but I'm not all that familiar with the some of the terminology. One word that seems to come up very often is "creep". Can someone explain what creep is in regards to triggers? Thanks in advance for the help.

-Alex

 
At May 20, 2009 2:50 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Alex,

Creep is always in the final stage of a trigger's pull. It is a gritty start and stop that you feel instead of simply increasing trigger pressure until the gun fires.

B.B.

 
At May 22, 2009 3:07 PM, Blogger Kurt said...

I have a C1 among my humble collection of air rifles. It is the early type with no safety device. It also has an upgrade with a gas strut from TheoBen and is VERY powerful. Unfortunally, I never found the looks of this rifle appealing, so i have not paid it the attention it deserve. I am too used to the pistol grips which is missing on this one. But it hits where you aim, so I might decide to keep it. Looks is not all! :-)

 
At May 23, 2009 7:03 AM, Anonymous Eric said...

I have a well-used 1987 .177 C1 that shoots Gamo Hunters at around 725 fps and the heavier JSB Exacts at 690 fps. I remember that when I bought it in the days before I owned a chrony that the C1 was rated at 800-830 fps, though I've always assumed that was a marketing ploy using light pellets and some dieseling. What is a reasonable muzzle velocity to expect from a .177 C1, and how does mine compare?

 
At May 23, 2009 7:37 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Eric,

I didn't own a chrono when I had the C1. People tell me the high 700s are where they should be.

B.B.

 
At May 23, 2009 10:36 AM, Blogger Kurt said...

B.B,
Perhaps not the right place to do this, but if you are interested, we could do a trade. I am interested in almost any brand as long as we talk quality. (It must have a pistol grip!)

 
At May 24, 2009 8:55 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Kurt,

I don't know what I would have to trade with you. Unless you might like an air pistol. I have a couple nice pistols I might consider. Is your rifle a .177?

Go to www.airgunwriter.com and contact me from there.

B.B.

 

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