The Shinsung Career 707 9mm Ultra – Part 1

by B.B. Pelletier

Update on Tom/B.B.: Tom has improved more on Monday than in the previous 4 days combined…and the doctor agrees. Tom’s sense of humor, wryness and funny personality are all intact. If all goes according to plans, he’ll be eating jello and soup today.

Now, on to today’s blog, which is about the Shinsung Career 707 9mm Ultra. This is one of the big boys of airgunning. John Burroughs, who used to import and distribute the Ultra, wrote an article about the gun in 2007. Today’s blog was written by Tom in October 2001 in The Airgun Letter. Although Tom’s article is older, he includes information and a view not provided by Burroughs. Some things overlap, but there’s also plenty of new info in this blog.


Some things don’t have to change if they’re right from the start. The Ultra is one of them.

Make no mistake, the field of big bore airguns is growing fast! This segment has been in airgunning’s background for more than a hundred years, and not many beyond a few active airgunners were aware it even existed.

In the first half of the last century, two .410-caliber air shotguns–the Paul and the Vincent–were created by their owners to satisfy a personal desire for an inexpensive training shotgun to be used at short ranges in relative quiet. The problem is that shotguns are already short-range weapons, so making them even shorter range can be an exercise in futility. Just ask Mossberg, who tried the same thing with their Mo-Skeet-O rimfire shotgun.

In the late 1960s, Crosman followed in the tracks of Vincent and Paul with their 1100 Trapmaster shotgun–a .380 smoothbore with its own special trap and reusable shells and pigeons. It was a big bore airgun by definition, but not usable when it came to round ball accuracy.

In the 1970s, several designs came out of the Philippines, the best known being the Farco air shotgun, a 28-gauge scattergun running on bulk CO2. Through the sheer size of the .50 caliber lead ball it shoots, the Farco became the first air shotgun to have any credibility for taking medium-large game, such as the American whitetail deer.

Though it has fallen from the favor it knew throughout the 1990s, the Farco is still available today. It generates pretty close to 100 foot-pounds in factory trim and some folks have hot-rodded it well beyond the pale. It cannot it be considered accurate enough for humane hunting beyond about 35 yards, but it does demonstrate one fact rather clearly–American airgunners are interested in big bore airguns!

Big bores go modern
Dennis Quackenbush set out to define and refine the field of big bores in 1993. His first gun was a kit for building the famous Paul air shotgun, but its low sales demonstrated that airgunners really wanted a complete gun rather than a project. The .375 Brigand he made next hit the nail square on the head and has evolved into an entire lineup of powerful yet affordable big bores.

Besides Quackenbush, Gary Barnes has made several big bores ranging from primitive-looking muzzleloaders to sophisticated benchrest rifles that shoot conical bullets accurately at ranges up to 200 yards. Gary builds guns in smaller numbers than Dennis, but they have an equal buzz throughout the market. Pennsylvania jeweler Tim Jones has also made a small number of very stylish big bores that evoke the looks of both fine Pennsylvania rifles as well as handmade European target guns.

The Koreans enter the picture
But it’s the Koreans who have come to the party with full-rate production airguns lately. Shinsung is well-known for the fabulous Career 707 lever-action repeater. Not only does that rifle offer instantly adjustable power over a broad range, it’s also one of the most accurate airguns on the market. Some .22 Careers are able to shoot consistent sub-.50″ groups at 50 yards–something even the rimfire boys admire.

The Ultra is not the first big bore that Shinsung put out. Several years ago, they converted their powerful Fire 201 .25 caliber shotgun to a single-shot 9mm rifle. (The Fire 201 has changed a bit and is now the Fire 202S.) Since the Fire loads from the breech, it was easy to convert. The rifle that resulted is both very powerful and accurate, producing energy in the 125 foot-pound region with five-shot groups of 1.5″ to 2″ at 50 yards.

At about $550 retail, the gun represented a tremendous value in a small-caliber big bore. But that wasn’t good enough for Shinsung president B.D. Lim. At one of the SHOT Shows, Mr. Lim told me that his vision of an air rifle is one of power, accuracy and a repeating capability. So, although his 9mm single-shot is both powerful and accurate, it does not have the repeating mechanism he wanted–hence the Ultra.

I first saw and tested the Ultra in 2000. That rifle was essentially what you see here except there were some engineering steps yet to be taken. One of those was to design a brand new rifling for improved accuracy while allowing for the mechanical feeding of a repeater.

With a single-shot breechloader, the shooter can overcome many accuracy concerns by inserting the pellet directly into the rifling. When the rifle mechanism has to do the same job, it must be designed to always place the pellet in the exact right place for power and accuracy. That means the design of pellet has to be taken into account as well, or everything is compromised.

You don’t notice such subtleties with firearm ammunition because the design of the cartridge takes care of them. But just start shooting a muzzleloading rifle, and you’ll soon appreciate what’s involved. A pellet gun is much more closely related to a blackpowder muzzleloading gun than to a modern firearm, because it also has no cartridge to index each shot.

Quick quiz: Why is a Colt 1860 Army revolver considered a muzzleloader despite having six shots in a revolving cylinder? The answer? You must first load the cylinder from it’s mouth, or muzzle, before the revolver is ready to shoot. Where an 1866 Winchester lever-action will cycle its metallic cartridges through the action, a Colt 1860 Army must be loaded exactly like a single-shot muzzleloader. The difference is that you load it six times before shooting instead of just one.

Bartolomeo Girandoni attempted to make a repeating blackpowder rifle that did not use cartridges with the result that his son was killed (or lost an arm, depending on which source I read) when that gun blew up! But his 12-shot repeating air rifle was successful enough to become a limited-issue standardized Austrian military weapon. In all, 1,000 to 1,500 military rifles were produced, again depending on the source.

The fact is that repeating air rifles are about as difficult to make as repeating non-cartridge blackpowder guns. Soft lead bullets do not like to be handled by hard metal actions. Making such rifles accurate to boot is even more difficult. In part 2, you’ll find out how well Shinsung did with theirs.

87 thoughts on “The Shinsung Career 707 9mm Ultra – Part 1

  1. Good news about BB and best wishes for more good news with every day that passes.
    Our socialist Prime minister has just called a general election for May6th(about time)and I hope Britain can finaly be rid of this traiterous trash after 13 years.
    I pray that by May7th BB is well back with all guns blazing and Prime minister Brown is dragged from Downing street by his almost non existant spine.



  2. Good Morning Edith,

    Great News about Tom!

    Do you know if this air rifle is legal for deer hunting in Maryland?

    Thanks Mr B.




  3. Edith,

    Good to see Tom is improving. My family continues to pray for him on a daily basis.

    Who knows? With all the prayers and the potential for miracles that goes with prayer you may just get Tom back better than before and 30 years younger!

    God bless you and Tom through these troubling times.


  4. Mr B.
    The DNR webpage for Maryland indicates that a rifle used for deer or bear must produce at least 1500 ft.lb.
    Everything seems to be spelled out pretty clearly, and airguns are not mentioned.

    So don't get caught.

    twotalon


  5. Mr B.
    My mistake.. that's 1200 ftlb.

    You can't cheat by calling it a muzzle loader either.
    It can't be loaded from the breech…only from the front. Also must be at least .40 caliber and must use not less than 60gr black powder.

    twotalon



  6. Howdy hey B.B.

    Welcome back to the world!

    Please don't scare us like that again!

    How are you feeling and how is your breathing? are you hungry.. feel like sex?..err a .. skip that one..

    Our prayers are answered.. praise the lord!

    Wacky Wayne



  7. Volvo & Wayne:

    Last week you said:

    Edith,
    Don’t bother Tom with this, but he had just given the go ahead on a trade the other day. I will get my new shipping address to you as soon I as I figure out those darn Chinese characters. He was to send the USFT for a NIB pink Crosman 760. He insisted on pink, said something about it matching a European man bag he saw online. He also wanted to throw in some classic pellets to make it even, but I let him have the edge in this deal.

    Wayne – this is what you wanted me say, right?

    Guilt by association! You two have deserved it for so long & now it's yours to share! Volvo for the Chinese remark & Wayne for simply being included! It's tarring with the same brush. Too bad!

    B.B. Pelletier

    Note: Edith typed this. I don't understand his answer, but he says you'll get it.




  8. Good morning BB

    It is most gratifying to see your scribblings today. You truly are a Zealot!

    God Bless you, and your Honey for taking such good care of you, and bringing you back to the blog so quickly.

    Take it easy. Eat some sorbet.



  9. Tom

    Glad you are feeling better. If I knew where you were at I'd bring you some home made soup and the jello of your choice.

    I have a question on a Beeman P3 pistol. I was shooting it the other day and tried some RWS super mag 9.3 grain pellets their fit was a little tight. I pulled the trigger (click) 2 or 3 sec later the gun went off. Tried one more time the gun never went off. Not sure I did the right thing but after about 30 sec I opened the pistol, (is there any way to unload after pulling the trigger?) The pellet was still in the camber.

    It shoots GAMO match pellets ok. I have not checked the velocity but I will.

    Thanks again for all you help.

    Speakski


  10. Speakski,

    Use a cleaning rod to push it back out from the muzzle to the breech. Never shoot pellets that heavy again. Yes, they were too big. Stick to pellets under 9 grains.

    B.B. Pelletier


  11. Hi BB
    I am sure now lying in bed is not your thing even when sick! Take it easy though, we need you strong and sharp quickly. All the best for a speedy recovery.
    Ton


  12. B.B.
    Share with Volvo? oh no.. I'm doomed!

    I get the barrel! …before it goes to China!

    Are you sure you want a pink 760? I didn't mean to get folks thinking the wrong thing..

    Blue might be a better choice… ah what the heck, I'll make it two 760s, one blue and one pink.. one to use, and one to keep in the "closet".. or maybe Edith will shoot with you:-)

    Vince,
    I'm no match to Edith:-)
    in boxing or sex..

    ..besides after 39 years (on Easter Sunday this year), with my wife Christine, I'm totally committed, and very much still in love!
    ..but Tom, even just thinking about sex, builds the immune system! .. and tells the body and the lord, you want to live! .. so if your not thinking about sex.. why not?

    Wacky Wayne


  13. Tom,
    Sounds like you really are coming back to us. Your sense of humor proves it. You're the only blogger I know who has a ghost blogger. Thanks Edith. Although, I guess you're not really a ghost since we all know who you are.

    Hah! WV: beekled – probably how BB feels right about now. (beekeeper you should have gotten this one)

    -Chuck


  14. Glad to hear you are doing better BB! Thanks again for the tip on the Eley Mach 2 ammo from ammunition to go, I placed my order yesterday!! My Marlin seemed to like the first box I bought for it ($9.99 @ Gander MT)so I figured their price was hard to beat.

    Thaks again and take care,

    Aaron


  15. B.B.
    I bet you could eat a road killed armadillo about now.

    I remember the week I spent in the hospital last summer….
    When they took off the diet restrictions and I finally felt like eating I went nuts for junk food.
    The hospital food all tasted and smelled horrible. My wife smuggled in some jelly doughnuts, candy, and some goodies from McDonalds.

    twotalon


  16. "I bet you could eat a road killed armadillo about now"
    Ward's Pit cooked Bar-B-Q just outside of Livingston on US 59. Too bad it isn't there anymore, you never could tell what kind of road kill you'd get. ;)


  17. CHEEEEEEESEEEEBUUUUURRRRRRGGGEEEERRRRR!!!!! BB – Next time the food cart comes by, check out the camo colored food plate covers on the bottom row. Look for the plate cover with the name Arch Stanton on it. Yours will be the the blank one next to Stanton's.


  18. ajvenom,

    I had to Google "Arch Stanton" to know what you're talking about. Believe it or not, neither Tom nor I have ever seen Clint Eastwood's spaghetti westerns. I've seen all the Dirty Harry movies, but Tom's seen only the first one…and he liked it.

    It wasn't until 3 years ago that we saw the first "Die Hard" movie. Now, we own all of them. I watched "Live Free or Die Hard" this past weekend when I was just plain tired & needed to see some gratuitous violence and see stuff blow up :-)

    When Tom gets out of the hospital (and maybe even while he's in the hospital), I'll rent "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly."

    Thanks,
    Edith


  19. I forgot to flip the ID to my name for the previous remark. My bad. I'm home now but will be back with Tom from 4-6 pm today. He should be able to answer more questions at that time.

    Edith


  20. Welcome back, B.B. But if soup and jello are a big improvement, then I'd say your case was worse than I realized. Here's to a rapid and complete recovery.

    Maybe some metallurgists out there can help me with a nagging question. The samurai sharpener makes a number of references to the fact that certain kinds of aggressive sharpening of knives, especially those using power-driven wheels, can heat up a knife blade to the point that it loses its tempering. If that's a possibility how to firearms barrels survive with temperatures up to 5000 degrees F which is way more than you get with sharpening a knife? Even airguns with their 2000 degree F temperatures would fall into the same category. If the type of tempering is different, why not make knives with the same tempering? Something is missing here. What is tempering anyway? All I can think of is exposing metal to radical temperature changes to somehow increase its durability.

    Matt61


  21. Dear B.B.

    Sorry to hear about your illness, but am glad you are doing better.
    Now, I have question about Crosman Pellgunoil? I just put a new seal on my Crosman 1077, which was leaking. I know this gets under you skin, but is there something I can use as a stop gap to Pellgunoil, because I really want to get my gun back in action. Or should I wait and get some Pellgunoil, because it is the best option since it is a fresh seal? And I don't want to mess up anything.

    Thanks B.B.
    And get well soon! :)


  22. Matt,

    The few nano seconds a barrel is exposed to high heat really doesn't heat things up much. Think about how many shots it takes for it to get uncomfortable to touch, which is far below the temperature to change any tempering.


  23. Anonymous,

    Pellgunoil, Pellgunoil, Pellgunoil. Write it on the blackboard a thousand times or until you remember that you should not use a CO2 gun without Pellgunoil :-)

    If you don't use Pellgunoil, then you'll be writing to us again about your leaky 1077. Read it & believe it! In this case, I KNOW I'm answering for my husband.

    Edith


  24. Glad BB is getting better! The blog that was posted about the Crosman town & country, gave me a great idea. When we were discussing .410 slug accuracy a couple weeks ago, I mentioned that I use them in my Savage Stevens .22/.410 over under. Well, I've been using kentucky windage to get the slugs to hit what I've been aiming at. They shoot quite low when using the Williams peep I've got installed on that gun, for the .22 barrel. If I center the front post just over the top edge of the aperature insert of the peep sight , I can get them to hit. The way the sight is on that Town & Country would be perfect. All I would have to do is make a blade with a hole for the insert and install it between the aperature insert and the bridge of the sight, like a washer. That would give me a open sight for the slugs. It wouldn't be a permanent alteration either.
    I also fould the Quackenbush article interesting. I have a Quackenbush take-down, .22 RF bicyle rifle with a nickle frame. It's a single shot affair also, where the breech block swings to the side to load it, and extract the cartridge. There is a striker located in this swinging breech that is pulled back to cock and fire the gun. I have no earthly use for it ,but it is a cute little gun, and it does work. Quackenbush made some neat stuff. Robert


  25. Mrs. B.B.

    Thanks for you help, sorry about beating the dead horse named Pellgunoil.

    Thanks,tell B.B. I hope he gets well soon.


  26. Tom,our prayers are answered.You really gave us a scare….I really didn't even want to read about airguns.When you began to improve I made up for lost time,sort of a celebration in your honor sir!I ordered 2 H.M.Quackenbushes,#1 and #7….but then I found a DAQ.457 for sale and I love it.
    P.S. Boy,Wayne REALLY wants that USFT!And I'm not talking about his proposed trade!!Get Home Soon!



  27. Anonymous

    Re Same old Pellgunoil Question #3,000,276

    As Tom once told me regarding chamber lubricants… "use anything else and consider yourself a test pilot and I won't be there to tell them where you crashed"

    If we don't like Tom's answers (or Ms. Edith in his absence) then find a forum that agrees with your preconceived ideas or has answers you want to hear.

    If you were as expert as Tom is in these matters, you wouldn't need to ask him the question, correct?

    Brian in Idaho



  28. Matt,think about the difference in Both the duration of the heat cycle and the comparison between the edge of a sharp blade and the cross section of the barrel….It takes less than a second to make the cutting part of the edge lose it's temper.I've seen literally hundreds of knives ruined on grinders.


  29. FrankB,
    I thought you were supposed to hold blades to the wheel until they start to turn blue:)!

    Matt,
    I agree with the logic about why temper doesn't go out of the barrel or spring piston cylinder — the heat dissipates more quickly than it can build up. I wouldn't be surprised, though, if the surface of the rifling isn't hardened to some extent by repeated quick heat-up and cool-down.

    I understand about family, and there's a risk that I might look like Renee Zellweger:). Let me know when/if you are ready sometime — this is the field trip I was thinking about: http://www.bgslinc.com. Time you shot a shotgun and some more blackpowder, and maybe try a .22 again. If you check out the aerial view, it may not be exactly like your home range:).


  30. Matt,

    If I understand it correctly, tempering is the process whereby you impart strength or toughness to steel or cast iron by heating and cooling. It is a delicately balanced operation wherein you try to reduce brittleness while reducing hardness and strength as little as possible. It is closely related to annealing, whereby you try to impart ductility to the steel without sacrificing its strength. Now, I am no metallurgist, so no doubt I will be quickly corrected by others far more knowledgeable than I.

    Blacksmithing is a high art, and I understand that there is no greater satisfaction to a smith than beholding a finely made blade. Damascus steel, from which very fine swords were made, acquired their strength by having the metal folded in upon itself many many times.

    -AlanL


  31. Tom (by way of Edith)

    Glad you are doing better. I had not heard the news of your being hospitalized until today; been busy on leave here in the great Pacific Northwest!

    All the best from one old Soldier to another.

    -Dan Nolenjavascript:void(0)


  32. Heat expands the molecules of metal and relaxes their bond to each other…..then rapid compression from quenching[cold contracts]organizes the metal molecules in a more dense package,then the metal maintains this unless it is undone by sufficient heat to break the organized arraingement.Does that clarify somewhat?BTW…liquid nitrogen accomplishes the most "organizing" by contracting the hot maleable metal the quickest…


  33. All of the comments are certainly true about tempering, but there is only air cooling involved in a barrel that has had a round shot through it. Air cooling will normally take the temper out of an object, provided it has been heated sufficiently.

    The flame temperature may be hotter with some varieties of powder, like ball powders, but it isn't a whole lot hotter. Regardless, the barrel will never reach the point of taking the temper out, unless its a full automatic, like a M2HB or a M249 SAW.

    The same temperature is reached with cast bullet loads and yet those barrels rarely erode or wear out.

    Barrel erosion is normally the accuracy killer, mainly due to increasing the leade and making too much bullet jump before it contacts the rifling.


  34. I suppose I should have added the M2 and etc. usually experience barrel droop from getting too hot, but I don't know that the temper is actually removed.



  35. It has pretty well been demonstrated that a plain based cast bullet does not experience any melting. That's a low temperature material as far as melting point. I dig them out of my berm all the time and they too many times look like they could be reloaded as is. :(

    With that thought, I wouldn't think there is any hardening of the lands from shooting.

    Normally the barrel is made from a particular alloy that has the desired strength for the application. Some are chrome plated, i.e. AR15/M16/AK47, for greater durability under adverse conditions, but none are actually tempered that I know of. Tempering would make the job of rifling much harder to accomplish.

    I just came in from the reloading room a little while ago and found a Beeman P17 laying there I had forgotten about.


  36. Matt
    You've been given a lot of good info about tempering here. The thing that caught me was that you said, "aggressive" (do you mean pressure) sharpening. I sharpen a lot of knives, axes, chisels, etc. these things need gentle gradual sharpening. Thus by not forcing excessive pressure for a quick job you do not destroy the temper and you get a fine polished edge. Like I said these fine folks here have given you a lot of useful info. If you need more I'll try an find my metallurgy book from college (buried somewhere).
    rikib


  37. The deciding factors involve the extremes of temperature change because the temperature drop has to happen very rapidly for thermal tempering.The mass of barrel the rifling is attatched to defeats this buildup of heat by heat sink transfer….except for sustained fire in a gun that is not designed for it.If the temperature doesn't reach the neccessary threshold molecules stay in their original state.If the heated metal gets near the point at which softening occurs,molecules can move around….only then can rapid cooling have any effect at all.Small masses of metal attatched to large masses just won't cool quick enough in ambient air because the larger hot mass attatched to it won't allow it.


  38. Frank B: The Quackenbush I have is the "boy's safety rifle" with the more common walnut stock and nickled frame. The barrel is not nickled,but blued (browned?), 18" long, and the breech block appears to be case hardened. I made a mistake when I referred to it as a bicyle rifle, as I believe those had a metal stock. Robert


  39. Matt61

    Tempering is a relatively low-heat process not to be confused with the much higher heat process of austenization that involves the quenching or rapid cooling of the metal.

    As I understand it, at temperatures around 1000 degrees C, steel alloys go through a phase transition that dissolves and distributes the alloying elements and increases the amount of carbon that is dissolved into the crystalline structures of the steel. This is called austenization.

    After austenization, the high carbon metallic structure called austenite is converted into martensite by the process of quenching or even, rapid cooling.

    Martensite is a crystalline structure that is very hard, due to the carbon, but brittle.

    Tempering is a lower heat process (about 500 degrees C) that converts the high carbon martensite into more durable ferrite/cementite.

    During tempering, the alloying elements will diffuse through the alloy and react to form intermetallic compounds. These compounds are not soluble in the alloy, and fall out of solution, forming small particles. The particles strengthen the metal alloy by working to prevent the movement of the crystal structures.

    The key to both processes is the careful manipulation of the level of heating, and cooling off cycles, the ideal of which is dependent upon the proportions of elements in the steel alloy you are dealing with.

    My take is that the polishing heats up the blade unevenly, and cools off just as unevenly which begins to break down this tight crystalline structure, which is considered to be ceramic, I beleive.


  40. Robert,I'm still interested in it because none of mine are the super rare ones….if not now,keep me in mind.Thanks for telling us all about it.Sounds neat!



  41. Slinging Lead,

    Since Fahrenheit=Centigrade*1.8 + 32, the temperatures you're talking about (500 C) are certainly higher (932 F) than normal casting temperatures (750 F is hot casting).

    Matt,

    Back in the old days of carrying a scythe for field work, the common sharpening device, even on those longer blades, was a file or a stone. A file was/is also used on ax blades and machetes. Some people used a treadle powered, or hand cranked, grinding stone, but as mentioned, they used a light touch.

    The degree of abrasiveness and angle is what is going to produce certain levels of sharpness.


  42. Here's my small contribution to the great humor on the blog today. For those of you that haven't watched all of Clint Eastwoods spaghetti westerns you may need someone to explain parts of this unless you played a gunslinger at some point during your career.

    An old prospector shuffled into town leading an old tired mule.

    The old man headed straight for the only saloon to clear his parched throat.

    He walked up and tied his old mule to the hitch rail. As he stood there, brushing some of the dust from his face and clothes, a young gunslinger stepped out of the saloon with a gun in one hand and a bottle of whiskey in the other.

    The young gunslinger looked at the old man and laughed, saying, "Hey old man, have you ever danced?"

    The old man looked up at the gunslinger and said, "No, I never did dance… never really wanted to."

    A crowd had gathered as the gunslinger grinned and said, "Well, you old fool, you're gonna dance now," and started shooting at the old man's feet.

    The old prospector –not wanting to get a toe blown off– started hopping around like a flea on a hot skillet. Everybody was laughing, fit to be tied.

    When his last bullet had been fired, the young gunslinger, still laughing, holstered his gun and turned around to go back into the saloon.

    The old man turned to his pack mule, pulled out a double-barreled shotgun, and cocked both hammers.

    The loud clicks carried clearly through the desert air.

    The crowd stopped laughing immediately.

    The young gunslinger heard the sounds too, and he turned around very slowly. The silence was almost deafening.

    The crowd watched as the young gunman stared at the old timer and the large gaping holes of those twin barrels.

    The barrels of the shotgun never wavered in the old man's hands, as he quietly said, "Son, have you ever licked a mule's butt?"

    The gunslinger swallowed hard and said, "No sir….. but… I've always wanted to."

    There are a few lessons for us all here:

    Never be arrogant.
    Don't waste ammunition.
    Whiskey makes you think you're smarter than you are.
    Always, always make sure you know who has the power.
    Don't mess with old men, they didn't get old by being stupid.

    kevin


  43. Thanks, Tom, for answering my question from yesterday.

    And thanks, Edith, for transcribing it.

    I didn't expect a reply from BB himself so soon!

    Good to hear he is on the mend.

    Les


  44. Matt
    Never fully sharpen an ax blade, leave it slightly rounded. If you make it razor sharp it will not last. Also, if you do not have a bench grinder that you can control speed (and also use different grinding wheels) you may want to consider a whetstone. Takes longer but produces a good edge for a variety of apps.
    rikib



  45. Rikib,the only part of that I agree with is that a dull axe will not lose it's dull.It also won't cut wood.Maybe you can knock the tree down.Sharpen your axe,when it gets dull….resharpen it.


  46. I don't know,maybe you mean don't make the edge too thin?Dull axes bounce,sharp ones cleave….no sarcasm intended btw.


  47. FrankB,
    I think Rikib is talking sense in this case. On my double-axe, I use one sharp and one dull edge. The dull edge will do a better job on some things, like the stumps of small trees (it pulps them up and doesn't leave a sharp stake), and its already dull, so you don't have to worry about it working close to the ground. Same thing as on a bush hog — dull blades actually smash and shatter thicker stuff, rather than leaving punjee sticks in the ground. Now that I think about it, I don't think I've ever sharped a splitting wedge, either.


  48. Frank B
    I'm not sure but I think we may be on the same page. I just did not say it right. The axe needs to be sharp but not thinned out like a knife blade. Do we agree on that? It needs a solid hard edge, I guess rounded was really the wrong terminology.


  49. I just slap them with the flat blade….but I thought we were cutting down trees[felling].My double bit axe is so I can resharpen it when I'm done.And I split most wood for burning with a regular axe[except wood like elm]but if it works for you,cool.


  50. BG_Farmer
    Now you got me thinking. I've never put an edge on my splitting wedge. I have a couple, maybe I'll try putting a little more of an edge on one of them. Have to get some more wood though I've already split everything this year.


  51. Tom,
    Glad to hear you are well enough to give dictation, but I fear Edith is not posting your wishes verbatim. Shorthand is certainly a lost art. I understand how frustrating it must be, but fortunately I was able to read between the lines.

    Edith wrote:
    “Guilt by association! You two have deserved it for so long & now it's yours to share! Volvo for the Chinese remark & Wayne for simply being included! It's tarring with the same brush. Too bad!”

    You meant:
    I feel guilty I could not complete the transaction in a timely fashion. You and Wayne certainly deserve the USFT. I will also include some Chinese currency with the Peking watermark. It’s tearing me up that I can’t get this out any sooner. Where is my new tooth brush, my old one is too bad.

    Please don’t blame Edith for the miscommunication.

    Did they take your green button away yet?

    Godspeed on your journey to a full recovery,
    Volvo

    PS – I started working for a new builder today.


  52. Rikib, I like about 40 degrees total.I use a mill bastard file big enough for a long stroke.Not the little 10" ones:]
    I split wood on a stump.If the first stroke doesn't split through,lift the whole mess and allow the axe to spin at the top,come down with the back on the stump….I also stack wood with the axe.Thin set the blade in the end of the wood and lift the back of the handle to release.



  53. Rikib,I wouldn't sharpen a maul,but a handleless wedge benefits from the occasional filework.You can set it with one hand and a good pop.Again on elm all bets are off!



  54. BGfarmer,with a 20" box woodstove,anything over 8" diameter needs splittin.I find a wood stove to be real efficient and safe.That little box heated our whole house.Wait,you're just messing with me ,aren't you?


  55. Frank B
    So you would rather lift the whole mess (20in dia. pecan about 16in long) than use a wedge and a sedge hammer. When I lived up north and split cedars and pines I used to lift the whole mess and slam it back down till it split through. Once that I had grown up and left for the military my dad told me he intentionally p/o me so I would take out my frustration on the wood. I prefer the wedge & sledge, but as with everything in life: to each his own.


  56. "Isn't wood you can split with an axe kindling:)?" No, but it isn't hackberry either.

    FrankB is explaining what I meant by "angle" better than what I did. Of course, I should have also included pressure, which does affect the edge too.

    The less angle there is on the finished product, the sharper you can get it. A straight razor doesn't have a wedge type angle, but you also don't sharpen it with a file.

    Splitting wedges aren't supposed to be sharp like an ax. They also shouldn't get dull, if you hit the proper side with the sledge.


  57. Volvo,

    Congrats on the new job, you sure were "aimless" for quite a while there.

    Kevin,

    That was a good 'un. One of my daughter's favorite lines from Grumpy Old Men is "go kiss a dead moose's butt." Or something like that. I've gotta show her yours. (The mule's, I mean. :-)

    Slinging Lead,

    My HW30S came in today! A beautiful looking gun. More tomorrow after I've played with it a bit.

    -AlanL


  58. As for me kindling is all the little branches I pickup around the yard to start my fires. Also it can be small "slices" of wood that I have peeled of a larger log with a hatchet. Basically I view kindling as that which is used to start a fire.


  59. Bg farmer,
    Came out nice. Not only back together but off to a new home. How would you feel about building a spring compressor? I found plans online and could supply the C clamp.

    AlanL,
    I think you’ll like the HW30S. Best plinker ever and fine for light duty pest control. In the end, it’s the Springer you’ll shoot the most. Now we just need to get you a Cyclone.

    Kevin,
    Enjoyed the recap, nothing like a side by side for an attention getter.


  60. Rikib,no of course not.But the whole tree isn't 20" in diameter.That is why I mentioned the maul,and the wedge.Pecan is heavy,but it splits well.That would be my smoking wood.but lets save that for another day.Maybe tomorrow I will post a pic of a forged combat tomahawk from Italy shaving hair….and please don't anyone tell me it shouldn't be sharp.:]


  61. Volvo,

    Congratulations on the new position. Hopefully the builder is building. I'm confident that with your expertise he will be very, very busy shortly.

    Had to share this with you since you were very inquisitive. Finally received the Paul Watts tuned R8 back yesterday.

    Over 5 months since I had him do a full blown tune, i.e., Maccari spring and ny/del guides, buttoned piston and AD II seal, milled and honed reciever, guides on cocking arm, cocking lever inserts and lever insert, front stock bracket and nut, polished and lubed detent and pivot points, installed brass setback trigger, brass safety and brass screw cup, installed blued eight inch muzzle brake, etc.

    As you know I have owned 9 Paul Watts tuned springers.

    I installed a burris timberline 4.5-14X on this gun today and spent a little time sighting it in. Used jsb exacts, red tin, just to get the scope adjusted.

    I haven't done any pellet testing. I was shooting sub 1/4" groups with the jsb's at 20 yards after adjusting this scope. This gun shoots itself. I'll never sell this gun. You have got to get an R8.

    kevin


  62. Volvo,

    Congrads on rejoying tne work force!

    I am sure President Obama will be sending you a thank you note for helping his job growth rating this month.:)

    Mr B.




  63. Kevin,

    Yes, I fear you are correct that I need an R8, glad to hear yours did not disappoint. Five months is long for even Paul, sounds like he is still busy as usual.

    Mr. B,

    Thanks. It's the least I could do. :)


  64. Volvo,

    Congrats on your connecting with the builder… Like Kevin said, best move that builder ever made.

    Thanks so much for clearing that up for Tom. And I'm sure Edith won't be hurt, it's was an easy mistake anyone could make… by-gones right?

    I just know Tom would want that trade completed before he gets home.

    Wacky Wayne
    Ashland Air Rifle Range




  65. BB,
    glad you are improving!

    Volvo,
    congratulations on the job!

    AlanL,
    I personally wouldn't use Ballistol all over a 2300. It "disolves traces of copper, lead, brass, zinc." The frame of the 2300 is cast (contains zinc).

    AR



  66. AlanL,

    I use a silicone gun cloth to wipe my airguns and appropriate lubricants at points that need it. BB started a series on this, but it looks like he only got three parts into it. Here is the link to part three (1st part is on CO2/pneumatics). Also included some other relevant articles by BB.

    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2008/11/what-to-oil-part-3-finishing-spring.html
    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2007/10/bb-was-wrong-story-of-crosman.html
    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/03/airgun-lubes-good-bad-and-ugly.html
    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2007/01/how-to-maintain-pcp-airgun.html

    AR



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