The new Webley Patriot! – Part 2

by B.B. Pelletier

Part 1

I tried chronographing the rifle before going to the range, but it was dieseling and getting too broad a velocity spread for accuracy. There were no explosions, but there were variations of 60 f.p.s. in the shot strings, so I figured it needed to be shot in to settle down. That proved to be a good assumption.

At the range
Conditions were perfect for shooting an air rifle. There was no wind and good light to see the target. Because the Patriot is a breakbarrel, it needs a lot of technique to shoot well. I did rest my off hand on a sandbag to steady the rifle, but when rested directly on the bag the groups opened to three times the size.

The Patriot has always been especially sensitive to hold, probably because of the heavy recoil and relatively long time the pellet spends in the barrel when compared to a .177 shooting 1,000 f.p.s. So, how you hold the gun is critical. You have to float it with as light a touch as you can and allow it to recoil as much as it wants to for the best accuracy. It always takes me time to get into the right frame of mind before my groups will tighten to what they should be. And, it was that way with this test rifle, too. However, once I was dialed-in, the rifle shot like – well, a rifle!

The two-stage trigger was reasonably crisp, if a trifle heavy, at 4.5 lbs. The single adjustment screw affects the length of the first-stage pull. I found the trigger usable and not too heavy for good accuracy.

The recoil is about as heavy as a smallbore airgun ever gets. Hold the stock tightly, and you’ll get a headache from repeated punches in the cheek. Something else I forgot about was also a concern. The Patriot will shake itself to death if you don’t keep checking all the screws. The scope mount screw loosened several times, as did the stock screws and the rear sight mounting screw. Loose screws are bad for accuracy, so remember to keep checking them, until you apply some blue Locktite to all the threads.

Setting up the scope
I gave the rear scope mount an extra full turn as I normally do for all breakbarrel spring rifles (except RWS Diana guns – they get two turns). That elevates it above the front ring and corrects the normal tendency for the barrel to droop. After sighting-in, I discovered that it isn’t required for the new Patriot. In fact, I didn’t need to use adjustable rings at all. The barrel was looking straight ahead! To save time, I sighted-in the scope so I was aiming at the target below the target that the pellets were hitting. It worked fine for most pellets, except that Diana Magnums were still climbing too high.

The best pellet
Without a doubt, the 31-grain Beeman Kodiaks are the best pellets for this rifle. Always have been and probably always will be. Beeman Ram Jets were also good, grouping about 0.8″, and Beeman Perfect Rounds proved adequate – giving 1″ groups at 25 yards. You could hunt with them to that distance if you like, but Kodiaks were so much more accurate that I don’t know why anyone would. The lightweight 21-grain Diana Magnums were a disappointment, shooting 1.3″ to 1.5″ at 25 yards.


Once the shooting technique was right and the screws were tightened, the new Patriot began to perform. This group, measuring 0.657 ” at 25 yards, was typical for five Beeman Kodiaks. Because these are .25-caliber pellets, the group appears larger than it really is. The beauty of this caliber is that the pellets cover a lot of area!

Through the chronograph
After the accuracy test, I retested the rifle for velocity and found it had settled down. Beeman Kodiaks averaged 620 f.p.s., with a spread of 13 f.p.s., which translates to 26.47 foot-pounds. Round balls go an average of 711 f.p.s. and vary by 15 f.p.s. They generate 26.5 foot-pounds. Ram Jets average 723 f.p.s., with a spread of just 9 f.p.s. and a power of 28.07 foot-pounds.

Is this really a Webley Patriot?
Yes! Without a doubt, it is. There are some subtle physical differences, and probably a few I missed, but the performance is pure Patriot. Welcome back, Webley!

43 thoughts on “The new Webley Patriot! – Part 2

  1. Speaking of rifles shaking themselves to death, my Crosman Phantom 1000 did just that. I had only put about 160 rounds through it, when about 4 inches of the front hand grip on either side blew off when I shot it! I thought this was just aesthetic damage (as I usually don’t reach that far up on the rifle when holding it) and I shot it one more time… The back end of the barrel popped up! Now the whole barrel is loose, and it won’t slip back into the stock. I am going to try and warranty it, as I’m hoping it was just a factory defect and not a problem with the rifle in general.

    Just a heads up.


  2. Hey BB!

    I got a question about the Avanti 888 and how to fill them, If I do get a 888 and have to fill it up (the c02) at a gas station, is there any special adapter ill need?


  3. Bryan,

    The CO2 adaptor comes with the gun, but there is no garantee that the output fitting at the paintball store will fit it.

    What most owners do is buy a 20-pound CO2 tank and get an adaptor set6 that comnnects it to their gun(s).

    B.B.




  4. First question : which one is more powerful :
    GAMO 1250 or WEBLEY PATRIOT ?

    Second : which one would you choose as far as building quality is concerned ?

    ERIC


  5. The accuracy looks good, but I suspect Webley sent you a good Patriot that shoots well, and why not? They know you will test it, and tell the rest of the world about it.

    What about randomly pulling one of the Patriot from the shipmment of hundreds Webley sent to Pyramind Air ?

    I hate to buy one of those guns that a vendor tested to be good, and mines is not, and they will tell me, Oh you just got a lemon or you don’t know how to shoot.


  6. When I clicked on your reference to Round Ball, the description states that it is not to be used for “precision” air rifles, only for “older models”. Is it intended only for an older steel BB replacement, and could it cause problems with a new pellet gun?



  7. The Patriot I tested was entirely random. Pyramyd Air made it so, because they want to know if the new rifle is good.

    If I had a ringer, imagine the number of returns they would have to put up with.

    B.B.



  8. Thank you for the report, B.B. It’s interesting that the expected barrel droop wasn’t present in your sample Patriot.

    What did the moving parts sound like as you cocked and fired that Patriot? Honking, buzzing… etc?

    Have you any experience with the Webley & Scott Stingray, in .22 or .25 caliber? If so what did you think about it?

    Also, thanks for reporting how the laser etch is holding up on your Talon SS. The laser etching samples I’ve seen look so much like paint (or, a decal) I’m having difficulty accepting that the markings won’t just rub off, over time.

    Cheers,
    GH


  9. THIS IS OFF TOPIC, BUT I WAS WONDERING ABOUT THE BENJAMIN SHERIDAN GUNS….392 AND A .20 CAL.
    THEY AREN’T AS POWERFUL AS I WOULD LIKE. BUT ARE THEY GOOD HUNTING GUNS? AND AT WHAT RANGES SHOULD I STICK TO? JUST CURIOUS WOULD IT BE FEESIBLE TO TAKE DOWN BIGGER ANIMALS WITH THEM THAN COTTON TAILS? SAY WITH IN 20 OR THIRTY YARDS. I ONLY WANT TO PART WITH ABOUT $200.00 ON THIS ENDEAVOR. THANKS FOR ANY HELP



  10. B.B.

    Great post on the famous patriot. This is off topic, but its been a problem that is bugging me. I have been having a major ferrel pigeon problem, and have been trying *TRYING* to get rid of them with my 392. I believe the pellets i am using either dont have enough foot per pounds energy, not enough penetration, or the gun in general isnt strong enough to humanely take them down. I generally drop them with 1 shot to the chest, but takes another shot to the head to humanely kill them, i really dont like to see them suffer. I have been using the JSB exacts that u recommended me, they are wonderfully accurate, but not great for hunting. Any other pellets you would recommend would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Oh yah, why does my 397 *using gamo magnum pellets* drop a pigeon in its tracks, but my 392 wont?



  11. Sticky,

    I can’t explain why your 397 out-performs the 392, but I would use it if that was the case.

    For the 392, try the Predator hollowpoints and also RWS Super-H-Points. Even Beeman Bearcubs are good, as long as the range doesn’t exceed 25 yards.

    B.B.


  12. BB.

    THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY…

    WOULD I BE BETTER OFF WITH A .22 OR THE .20. I READ YOU PERFER THE .22 FOR HUNTING SITUATIONS. ARE THESE REALLY PRETTY ACCURATE GUNS? I HAVE A DAISY 880, IT’S PRETTY POWERFUL TO ME. BUT THE .177 JUST DOESN’T PLEASE ME. WOULD THE 392 BE MORE POWERFUL AND A FAR STEP ABOVE MY DAISY IN ACCURACY AND POWER? I WANTED A SUMATRA CARBINE, BUT THE EXPENCE OF THE SCUBA AND VALVES, ETC… WOULD BE TO MUCH RIGHT NOW. I WANTED TO SHHOT PREDATORS WITH HEAD SHOTS. BUT I’M OPEN TO NEW HUNTING SITUATIONS. AS ANY HUNTING IS BETTER THAN NO HUNTING. AN AIR RIFLE WOULD OPEN SOME DOORS TO NEW AREAS FOR ME.

    THANKS NATE


  13. B.B.

    If you buy a Beeman Kodiak, is it the same deal as the Webley – made in Turkey?

    You make an interesting comment in this blog: “…except that Diana Magnums were still climbing too high.” I can understand accuracy being pellet dependent, but is the trajectory also that pellet dependent? I would think that at 20 yards they would all be pretty flat. I have a Benjamin 392 with a peep sight that I’ve been shooting .22 RWS Hobbies with. I’ve got the sight cranked all the way down, sighting just below the bull at 20 yards, and I still hit an inch or two above the bull. The pellet? Other suggestions? Lousy shooting (ha!)?What kind of group would a decent shooter expect of a 392/397/BS/SS at 20 yards?

    Thanks.


  14. Nate,

    I think the 392 is your best bet, because there are more pellets to choose from in .22 caliber. Twenty caliber was going great for a long time, but there have been some pellets in that caliber withdrawn from the market in recent years.

    As for accuracy, the 392 isn’t that much more accurate than your 880. A 392 should shoot a one-inch group at 30 yards off a rest with good pellets. That’s why I would limit my shots to that distance or just a bit farther. The distance at which you can hit a quarter is about your maximum range.

    B.B.



  15. BB,

    So half inch groups at 25-30 yards rested with a 392 would be an exception, not the norm, correct? I’ve been in the .4-.6″ range for 5 shot groups with my Xocet .22 Carbine for a while (BSA 3-12x44mm), but I’ve only been in the .7-1″ range with the 392 @ 8 pumps. The peep site is surely sweet, but those targets are tiny at 25yds+. It sure likes Gamo Master Points, though it’s fave food seems to be Beeman Field Target pellets. Good thing is the Xocet’s fave food is Master Points, so that’s what I stock up on. The 392′s groups seemed to shrink down once I got the paint out of the last 1/2″ of the barrel or so. Now I have to have a showdown with my old man and his 342 to see who’s Benji pumper is the most accurate :)

    Thanks for all you do!

    -david in fla


  16. what is the value of a Benjamin 342 that still works and has 99% finish?
    Also what kind of accuracy can i expect from a daisy 5880? Will it kill squirrels and small birds?



  17. For BB or anyone:

    Sorry for the extremely off topic post but I don’t know if it’s poor ettiquette to post under anything but the most recent blog entry.

    I am looking for a Glock airgun or airsoft gun. I have some specific requirements: I need the ‘pocket’ at the back of the grip to be identical to a real Glock pistol, and the small mounting rail under the muzzle must be the same as well.

    Why?

    I picked up a Glock shoulder stock and an adapter that replaces the base of a Glock magazine and allows it to attach to the front rail (and function as a forerip).

    http://www.tdi-arms.com/store.php?pid=255

    In the US, owning these accessories with a real Glock pistol requires special ATF registration and taxes paid.

    I do not own a Glock pistol, but I want to mount these on SOMETHING- hence my question.

    Are there any Glock airsoft or BB/Pellet guns that are an EXACT dimensional copy of a Glock 19 (a Glock 17 may work)?

    I’ve seen a few low-end Glock-knockoff airsoft guns in person, and they have the battery recharger plug socket in the grip so there’s no way to attach the stock.


  18. Dylan,

    The 342 you mention is worth about $125.

    The 880 should give 1 inch groups at 15-20 yards. It’s pretty light for squirrels, but it will kill small pest birds like sparrows at the same range.

    B.B.


  19. Airgunner,

    This is not a complete answer but here is what I know about Glock and airsoft. Glock has been extremely resistant to airsoft before this year. Now they have reversed their position and embrace it.

    I would contact them because I believe saw airsoft in their booth at the SHOT Show.

    B.B.


  20. Aloha to all. I just received my new Webley Patriot on Wednesday-Yipee! I pulled out all the stops and had PyramydAir.com install a Leapers 3-12X44 30mm SWAT Mini Size A.O. Range Estimating Mil-Dot Scope and had the gun, scope, and other incidentals (ammo, maintains gear, etc) shipped in a hard case. I was a bit overwhelmed by the weight of the rifle. Nine pounds is more than I am used to (my other air rifle is a Benjamin pump). The Leapers scope is outstanding! I can’t wait until the weekend to get the scope sighted in and do some target practice. I did contemplate in getting a PCP rifle but I will cut my teeth on this animal before getting into that aspect of this hobby.

    BTW, mahalo b.b. pelletier for the excellent review of this air gun. It is testament that I did make the right choice in all the rifles I considered.


  21. B.B.

    Thanks for the information regarding the Beeman Kodiak. No suggestions on what I might be doing wrong in sighting the Ben 392?


  22. Please remind me of your specific problem with the 392. I get a lot of questions on the 392 every day and most are unsigned, so I don’t know what problem you are referring to.

    What sighting problem are you having?

    B.B.


  23. Sorry – here’s the question.

    I have a Benjamin 392 with a peep sight that I’ve been shooting .22 RWS Hobbies with. I’ve got the sight cranked all the way down, sighting just below the bull at 20 yards, and I still hit an inch or two above the bull. Is it the pellet? Other suggestions? Lousy shooting (ha!)? Also what kind of group would a decent shooter expect of a 392/397/BS/SS at 20 yards with a peep sight?

    Thanks


  24. A peep sight on a 392 should give 1/2 to 5/8″ at 20 yards.

    As for the sight adjustment, is your sight s Crosman peep made by Williams? If so, I think it should adjust low enough to work correctly at 20 yards.

    B.B.


  25. Yes, it’s a Williams sight. The only thing I can figure out is that I’m not judging the center of the peep sight correctly, but this is hard for me to believe. Thanks for your input anyway.


  26. This is a problem that should be brought up with Crosman. The Williams sight is made for this installation and your results are unacceptable. A taller front sight will solve the problem.

    You should never have to judge where the center of the peep hole is. Your brain does it automatically, which is why many military sights are peeps. They are faster and more precise.

    B.B.



  27. B.B i’ve been looking into buying a .25 caliber patriot and im wondering if your patriot has alot of vibration and recoil or is it nice and smooth.



  28. Thanks B.B .I’ve got 400$ for the patriot saved up.Is the patriot worth 500$?Secondly What is the largest thing i could kill with the patriot.


  29. I don’t make judgement calls for anyone. It’s your money so you have to decide. The Patriot is a fine breakbarrel and uniquely powerful, but don’t buy it for that reason alone. A good shot can take more game with a lower-powered airgun than a mediocre shot can take with a magnum. Power is meaningless without accuracy.

    The Patriot is suitable for raccoon and woodchuck-sized game.

    B.B.




  30. Hey BB

    I know you don’t like these kind of questions but I’ve been thinking of a high power springer and want your opinion. Webley Patriot, Gamo Hunter Extreme, or RWS 460 magnum. Which of the three in your opinon is best (based on accuracy, quality in materials, longevity, resale value)?

    Thanks, Kyle.


  31. Kyle,

    Of the three guns I have only tested the Patriot thus far. Youy didn’t mention the RWS Diana 350 Magnum, which I have also tested,

    I can’t give you a good answer yet. My hopes are on the 460 Magnum because it is a fixed barrel gun, but we’ll see,

    B.B.


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