Monday, June 11, 2007

Remington Genesis: Part 4

by B.B. Pelletier

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

Sorry, my friends, but the Beretta CX-4 Storm that I scheduled to blog today has been delayed. It will be a couple more weeks before I can get to it.

Today, I'll conclude the Remington Genesis report. I told you how well the Gamo Tomahawks shot compared to all others, and you'll remember that the RWS Supermags were okay, but not great.

Crosman Premier lites
The final pellet I tried was the Crosman Premier 7.9-grain, which shot 2" groups at 25 yards. It also loaded very loosely in the breech and would be the perfect example of a pellet that doesn't fit the bore very well. It also noticeably increased the amount of mainspring buzz.

If you own a Genesis, don't stop there. There are plenty of good pellets that I didn't try, and I think you should give them all a chance in your gun. I do believe that the heavier pellets will probably not shoot as well as the lighter ones, because that's how it usually goes in breakbarrels.

Trigger and powerplant
Back in parts one and two of this report, I said the powerplant and the trigger acted like they would probably smooth out over time and use, and that's exactly what they've done. The trigger is still single-stage and still drags and creeps, but it's lighter and smoother than it was in the beginning. In part two, I said I could feel the beginning of a first and second stage, but that hasn't materialized. After a few thousand shots, the trigger should be very smooth. The spring buzzes very little now compared to when the gun was new. I think this rifle might respond well to a tuneup. All detonation (which I called dieseling in parts one and two) has ceased.

The Bug Buster 2 was just the right scope for this airgun. It mounted easily and was all the magnification I needed to get the job done.


The Bug Buster 2 was good on the Genesis. It fit well and went on quickly. The power was sufficient to give the accuracy shown in Part 3 of this report. Notice the flat portion of the stock just forward of the triggerguard. That's where the rifle sat on the gel pad.


Best pellet
I was most impressed by the performance of the Gamo Tomahawk pellet in this rifle. It saved the day like the cavalry! That will lead me to do a special test of the Tomahawk at some time in the future. With 750 pellets in the tin for as little as they charge, this pellet is one heck of a good deal!


The Tomahawk is a hollowpoint with a raised cone in the center. I don't know how well it expands, but it certainly made the Genesis a shooter!


Velocity
The velocity has dropped and gotten more uniform now that the rifle is no longer detonating. I had gotten 785 to 811 fps with Heavy JSB Exacts in part two last year, and now the gun gets 734-747. RWS Hobbys go 887 to 901. Gamo Tomahawks go anywhere from 838 to 865, so their accuracy should decline at longer ranges.

Gel pad and stock shape
The Gel Shooting Support was another lifesaver for this rifle. Who would have thought that such a small thing would have such a dramatic impact on group size? The Genesis stock is perfectly shaped for the gel pad, too. It has a wide flat spot on the bottom, just ahead of the triggerguard. That's how field target rifles are shaped. While the Genesis will never be a field target rifle, the shape makes it easier to rest the rifle almost anywhere.

I think the reason the gel pad works so well is that it gets your other hand off the rifle. The Genesis is very hard to hold softly because the thumbhole stock design invites squeezing. Using the gel pad isolates the gun from your body to make a noticeable difference downrange.

Bottom line
The Genesis is in a price range with some tough competition - the toughest of which is the Gamo Shadow 1000 which is $20 cheaper. The Shadow can do anything the Genesis can do, but it doesn't have the nice grippy synthetic stock. So, buyers have to choose.

47 Comments:

At June 11, 2007 8:15 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B. Is the Bug Buster 2 ok for powerful springers,e.g.,the RWS 54 or the AA Mklll? Don

 
At June 11, 2007 8:20 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Don,

The Bug Buster 2 is built on the TS platform. That's Leapers toughest scope. Whenever you see the TS next to a scope, it will take the recoil of any airgun made.

B.B.

 
At June 11, 2007 10:52 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB,

I have a BugBuster scope (6x32)non adjustable objective that has a very coarse reticle. I personally think that the scope I have is junk. The entire field of view is never in focus (the edges are very distorted, and I find it hard to pinpoint the ten ring with such a thick reticle. Is the reticle on the new Leapers Bug Busters improved? Does it compare with the fine reticle on the Leapers 3x9x50?

Thanks,

Michael in Florida

 
At June 11, 2007 11:23 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Michael,

You don't have a Bug Buster. By definition, all Bug Buster scopes have adjustable objectives. You have a Leapers Compact scope. They have the corsest reticles of any Leapers scope.

The reticles are all different thicknesses on Leapers scopes, so I can't say whether one has a thick one or not without examining it..

All Bug Busters have hunting reticles which are thicker, but I doubt they are as thick as you compact scope reticle.

B.B.

 
At June 11, 2007 11:35 AM, Anonymous Dave said...

can anyone out there that has a remington genesis test the new crosman destroyers in it to see if they work also?

Dave

 
At June 11, 2007 11:58 AM, Anonymous Vince said...

Hmmm.... do you think the Tomahawk pellets will start showing instability when they get into the 900+fps range?

Also, I was glad (and surprised) to see Gamo offering the Shadow with open sights again. Some time ago they informed me that they were phasing them out - all guns were gonna be scope-only

 
At June 11, 2007 1:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

when are u going to leave your next post on airsoft?

 
At June 11, 2007 4:57 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Vince,

I will test Tomahawks at 900 and long range. I might go a little faster, but that's where most diabolo pellets start to loose it, so I won't do much at that speed.

B.B.

 
At June 11, 2007 5:01 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Airsoft,

I have a couple posts in the works right now.

B.B.

 
At June 11, 2007 7:11 PM, Blogger RexDart said...

This post has been removed by the author.

 
At June 11, 2007 7:13 PM, Blogger RexDart said...

Hi BB,

Sorry for the off topic question, it was a toss up between raising the dead or putting it here :)

I've noticed that certain specifications on scope mounts is near impossible to find on the Pyramid website and on the internet in general. In particular, the maximum objective sizes for certain mounts, like the B-Square 17101. I know its a good idea for people to call with their tech questions, however when assembling a wishlist at 2 am its a bit difficult.

Even the B-Square website has no specs on their models. Pyramid would be the ONLY website with this info if they decided to add it to the description. I'm guessing that ther 17101 is for objectives up to 44mm, and the High Mount version 17701 is for 50mm and above. I've already emailed Pyramid on this, I just thought I'd share it with the readers who may also be scratching heads.

Thanks for sharing the knowledge!
Paul.C

 
At June 12, 2007 1:03 AM, Anonymous Dave said...

bb,

so, do you expect the crosman phantom to for the most part be the same rifle as the genesis?

Dave

 
At June 12, 2007 2:04 AM, Anonymous Dave said...

bb,

do you think the jacketed steel bull barrel gamo offers on the viper and hunter elite and extreme models will help calm recoil significantly?

Dave

 
At June 12, 2007 6:20 AM, Anonymous Vince said...

Dave, I'm not BB, but...

The Phantom is a synthetic-stock version of the Quest, which is a Chinese version of the Gamo built by BAM (the B30 and B40 guys). The Genesis is based on the same action as the Benjamin Legacy 1000.

They are similar in general design (as are most breakbarrels), but that's about it. All the major parts - springs, seals, compression tube, barrel, etc. are different.

I had a Legacy (and have a Phantom), and personally I prefer the Chinese gun. In my experience, the Quest-based guns are easier to shoot reasonably well and tend to hit harder. Plus, the Quest has an articulated cocking link that reduces side-loading on the piston.

But that's just based on my own limited experience.

As for the bull barrel - I think those only work for recoil when it's a solid steel barrel that adds weight. I suspect that Gamo does this for looks and/or production costs (plastic jacketing cheaper than bluing?)

It would be REALLY nice if Gamo addressed spring twang, rather than meesing around with gimmicks...

 
At June 12, 2007 6:21 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Paul,

Thank you for suggesting Friday's posting!

B.B.

 
At June 12, 2007 6:53 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Dave,

I do think that, though the price difference gives me cause to wonder. All I know is that Pyramyd sells a boatload of Phantoms.

B.B.

 
At June 12, 2007 6:55 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Dave,

The plastic jacket doesn'ty do anything to recoil, but it probably does reduce vibration. The Viper Express is pretty quiet.

B.B.

 
At June 12, 2007 9:45 AM, Blogger pestbgone said...

BB and Vince,
I’ve been following your discussion of vibration and twang. I have very limited experience with airguns but have a Gamo Shadow 1000 that I’ve been using as a “project gun”. Spring twang, a poorly designed and sloppy pivot bolt, and bad trigger seem to be the trademarks. After much time and energy I’ve pretty much fixed all of them and now have a reasonably accurate and consistent gun. It would have been faster, and maybe cheaper, if I had just started out with a decent gun, but I have definitely learned a lot. I followed all of BBs tuning instructions from the great series he did a while back and that helped a lot. But the gun was still a sow’s ear. The spring twang problem was an interesting one. I started by using one of Rich-from-Mich’s UHMW spring guides, top hats, and thrust bearings. That helped a lot. New piston seal, Mac spring, and velocity tar, more improvement. But the spring still rattled around inside the piston tube like marbles in a trash can. BB had mentioned possibly using shim stock inside the tube to take up the clearance but said he didn’t particularly like that fix. So I found some UHMW adhesive backed tape ( http://www.mcmaster.com/ part number 76445A744 ) at work that is excellent stuff. Flexible, tough, slippery, and the adhesive backing bonds well. I degreased the inside of the piston tube, cut the tape to fit, and lined the tube. It took a few tries to get it to fit correctly and get it fully bonded by pressing it into place with a wood dowel rod. The spring fit well, and that metallic rattle was gone. I reassembled the gun and the difference in noise level and vibration was major. And checking with a chrony, the velocity was super consistent- 8fps spread from a half dozen BKs. Damping the recoil was next but that’s another story. BB, do you know if any of the manufacturers use a lining inside their piston tubes? I guess longevity might be an issue, but I've got at least 1000 shots on this modification and diassembly and inspection shows no degradation of the UHMW tape.
Best regards,
Pestbgone

 
At June 12, 2007 12:21 PM, Anonymous Dave said...

bb and vince,

...wait...the jacketed bull barrel is plastic??? gamo says on their website that its steel.

Dave

 
At June 12, 2007 3:09 PM, Anonymous Vince said...

Unless I'm sorely mistaken, the jacket is plastic. The barrel itself, of course, is steel.

 
At June 12, 2007 6:20 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Pestbgone,

I am so happy that you were inspired to do this tuneup! I could not have done more.

And working on a sow's ear is often the best way to learn.

Wow!

 
At June 12, 2007 8:40 PM, Blogger pestbgone said...

B.B.,
Thank YOU very much, otherwise i would not have had the confidence to dive in. I feel fortunate to have found this blog where the information and advice is solid, and I don't have to wade through tons of posts to get one tid-bit of info. This is heaven for an incurable tinkerer like me.
And I'm really looking forward to your blogs on competition shooting.
Thanks again,
Pestbgone

 
At June 13, 2007 8:52 PM, Anonymous Ethan said...

Hey B.B.,

I've got sort of an off-topic question for you. I just bought a Quest 1000X (I did consider the Genesis), but I don't think the Crosman scope that it came with is very good. Can you recommend a better scope under $50? Or maybe I should just consider getting a one-piece mount to better hold a zero?

Also, have you heard anything about what kind of pellets the Quest 1000 likes?

Love your blog.
Thanks in advance,
Ethan

 
At June 14, 2007 4:33 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Ethan,

Try the Leapers 4 X 32 range estimating AO Full Size Sniper Scope. It has a TS platform and is a great value.

Before you get to mpellets, clean that barrel with JB paste, the way I have been recommending. Then try a Crosman Permier 7.9 and a Gamo Hunter.

B.B.

 
At June 14, 2007 12:52 PM, Anonymous smith said...

if i wanted to mount a centerpoint 3-9x40 scope, which scope rings should i use?

 
At June 14, 2007 1:07 PM, Anonymous Dave said...

well smith, that all depends on your gun. if its to a pellet gun, then you need dovetail mounts, 1 inch, medium.

if its for a firearm, or airsoft gun, you need weaver/pitcanny mounts(still 1 inch medium).

Dave

 
At June 14, 2007 1:59 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Smith,

Since the Genesis already comes with a 3-9x40, it's a safe bet that the rings that come with the gun will fit the Centerpoint scope, unless it's a 30mm tube. The Genesis mounts appear to be medium height, so I'd say medium-height rings will work. Be sure to ask the sales person to check before you buy.

B.B.

 
At June 16, 2007 6:29 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

hello b.b.

i'm looking for some spring piston airguns for under $200 that are not hold sensitive have good longevity and dont require alot maintenance and does not require me to buy replacement parts like springs and seals for a couple years


thank you
jeremy

 
At June 17, 2007 12:45 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Jeremy,

The IZH-61 & Gamo CF-X.

B.B.

 
At June 17, 2007 1:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am new to airguns though am an old timer with shotguns, rifles, revolvers, etc.... Recently I bought a Crosman Sierra Pro, which I am told is really a Remington Summit,it came with a scope, 3x9x40.I took it to the range to sight the scope in(at 25 yrds) and after an hour was very unhappy. Reasonable groupings at 25yrds, however, all 8 inches left and 12 inches low. After several scope adjustments I am close to the bull but not consistently.

Question: Should I return the gun and get the Gamo shadow 1000 or stay with what I have? I wastoldI can returnthe gun and get a different one.

Thanx, Bernie

 
At June 17, 2007 2:50 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

thank you very much b.b.

i will get the cf-x



jeremy

 
At June 18, 2007 6:02 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Bernie,

I can't tell from your question whether your problem is sighting-in or accuracy. If sighting-in, know that all breakbarrels droop and you probably need to use an adjustable scope mount. If accuracy, are you holding the rifle very loosely and letting it recoil as much as it can? That's the only way to be accurate with a breakbarrel spring rifle. It's the same hold used by rimfire target shooters, except aigunners never grip the stock. They allow the stock to float on their open palm. Never rest the gun directly on sandbags.

B.B.

 
At June 18, 2007 10:25 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanx BB,

I doappreciate all the help I can get. The experienced airgun shooter in the store had suggested either the GAMO or the Beeman over the sierra Pro, which I was told was really a Remington Summit.

The question was about accuracy. I had my hand on the sandbag and I thought I used a soft hold. I didn't have this kind of trouble with any other rifles, especially my 22 winchester 61 pump.

The other question was do to the fact that the gun is hard to cock, and has a verystrong/hard trigger pull, I'm an short old timer.
Sooo - the question is whether I should return the Sierra Pro and get the GAMO Shadow 1000, with scope,or the Beeman 1062 with scope?

Thanx, Bernie

 
At June 18, 2007 1:11 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Bernie,

Okay, you're doing everything right.

Now you want more accuracy. Let's get you into a Gamo CF-X or stretch a little farther and get a .177 BAM B40. These two are very accurate, with the B40 outshooting a tuned 10/22 at 40 yards.

B.B.

 
At June 18, 2007 2:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow OK, I willreturn the Sierra Proand I will see if they can order the B40, does it needa scope?

Thanx SoMuch BB..

Bernie

 
At June 18, 2007 8:22 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Bernie,

The BAM B40 has no sights, so it does need a scope.

B.B.

 
At June 21, 2007 2:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.,

If the Genesis is American made, and the Quest/Phantom is Chinese, where is the Sierra Pro/Summit made (or, which rifle is it based on?).

Thanks,
Andrew

P.S.-You're running a great blog, it's very informative.

 
At June 21, 2007 2:36 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Andrew,

I think it's made in China, but I'm not sure.

Glad you enjoy the blog.

B.B.

 
At June 26, 2007 5:22 PM, Anonymous Ethan said...

B.B.,

I think I'm about to buy the Leapers 4 X 32 range estimating AO Full Size Sniper Scope for my Quest 1000, as you suggested. However, I need to buy separate mounts to fit on to the Quest's 11mm Dovetail rail.

My question is, would you recommend a one-piece mount as opposed to two rings? Something tells me the one-piece would be better at handling the Quest's recoil.

Thanks again,
Ethan

 
At June 26, 2007 5:35 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Ethan,

I seldom recommend one-piece rings over two-piece. Both are equally strong and two-piece are much more flexible.

B.B.

 
At July 13, 2007 3:52 PM, Anonymous Scott said...

For the folks discussing the Remington Summit/Crosman Sierra,

I bought the Crosman Sierra Pro combo, and I have to say that the ONLY thing I liked about it was the Centerpoint 3-9x40 scope.
For one thing, this was a classic example of major barrel droop exacerbated by the non-adjustable scope mounts, necessitating a pretty major scope turret correction.
Then, once I was able to get the scope in the ballpark, I was dismayed to see that it absolutely would NOT hold a zero for more than 20 shots.
Yes, I used the integral scope stop in the rear ring, and yes, I thoroughly degreased mounts, screws, rings, and scope itself.
The only thing I didn't do was to apply Michael's "Gun-Tite" brand of Loc-Tite, but I didn't want to make it problematic to return it, and I am glad I didn't.
I also discovered that ALL of the screws on the rifle itself were loose and worked themselves back out immediately after I had tightened them and shot more than once or twice.
Here I DID apply the Loc-Tite, and that halted the screw backout.
However, it didn't make a wit of difference, as the 25 yard groups quickly opened up from approximately 3" (yes, that's right) to 12"+!
I checked all screws, including the scope mount, but none was lose.
I used my traditional .30-06 death grip, then switched over to the "artillery hold."
Neither helped.
I returned this dog to the local Wal-Mart, but it still took me over a half hour to get them to honor their return policy, as their clerks seemed to be under the impression that an airgun is under the exact same category as true firearms, which are not returnable.
Anyway, I am eagerly awaiting the enormously talked about Gamo CFX.
btw...too bad that Crosman has already discarded the Legacy 1000 and (I assume) the Genesis, as those were the only yankee springers out there.
Those Spanish/Brits/Germans still have their edge in that category, at least it looks that way for now.

-Scott

 
At July 13, 2007 4:19 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Scott,

Good report! These are the comments our readers need to make up their minds.

I hope the CF-X you get lives up to everything you have read.

B.B.

 
At September 27, 2007 10:12 AM, Anonymous Joe G said...

I bought the Remington Genesis 1000x, yesterday. Not my first choice on my list but dealers around here are very limited on what they carry. I was really looking for something in .22 cal..
After getting it home, I open the box with excitement. The rifle looks really good, the Centerpoint 3-9x40 AO looked just as good.
I decided to try open sights first, using the Crosman primere target to see if she would group. Not well out of the box. Way over an inch at 6 yards. So rembering BB's comments on the break-in and the poor results with those pellets I proceeded to clean the barrel with JB's bore cleaner.
The next round with those pellets they where almost all touching, shooting with open sights. (The rear sight spring is soft and moves easy).
Time to mount the scope. I needed to shim the rear scope ring to compensate for drastic droop. The groups where good. The mount seems rather good with the anchor pin holding well in the receiver.
Today I adjusted the cheak peice higher. (The instruction sheet now tells you how.) Started shooting and the groups where really poor. Shots where strung out up and down over 1.5" but correct windage and also had random flyers 4" low with correct windage.
I remounted the check peice back to the default low position, and proceeded to shoot one hole groups.
Again I shoot 6yards in my garage and can only imagine how bad that would have been at 20 yards or more!
The pellets I tested so far are the Crosman Premire Target @ 856-866 FPS; Beeman Laser @ 974 FPS; Beeman CrowMag @ 760-766 FPS; Beeman Silver Arrow @ 635 FPS. The arrow is a heavy pellet at 11.5 grains. and the Gamo Rocket @ 735 FPS. I tried the Crosman Silver Eagle and stoped after getting a supersonic crack. Well the rifle still has to break-in so will see what it does in a few month and at a longer range. Overall I like this rifle.

Joe G in Jersey

 
At September 27, 2007 3:52 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Jersey Joe,

Way to go! Keep us posted.

B.B.

 
At October 04, 2007 3:32 PM, Anonymous Joe G said...

Accuracy problems of the Genesis 1000x found and revealed.

During a week of shooting the rifle at 13 yards indoors to sight in, i came across a few problems. Groups would come and go, at best about an inch, 50 shots later 3 inches and then random low flyers 4 to 10 off the mark.

After a good inspection, I found the set screw that locks the barrel in place was backin out causing the barrel to become lose in the block. This problem was fixed with blue thread lock; and seems to be holding tight.

Another problem was the barrel not latching up secure, and every now and then it would tilt down about 1/8" or so. The fix for this was to place the yoke of the receiver into a vice, and try and get a little more pressure by pinching it togeather. This also allowed me to tighten the hinge screw better. The process did take up slack, and the barrel now had good tension when opening and closing.

After an hour of shooting CrowMags today, everything is still tight and my groups for the most part are as thick as a pen.

I hope she holds !

Joe G in Jersey

 
At October 04, 2007 4:38 PM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Jersey Joe,

You are now a leader in Genesis tuning. Keep us updated from time to time.

B.B.

 
At November 15, 2008 8:06 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just picked up a genesis it is crap. Out of the box it wouldn't cock. I began poking around and found the rod or should I say folded sheet metal the pushes in the spring was bend bad. I had a gamo wisper but someone helped themselves to it out of my trunk. So, off to the store to trade it for a gamo cfx. The scope on the gamo looks like crap, ahh who cares I think from this blog it is a solid gun. Bill

 

Post a Comment

<< Home