HW 55 Tyrolean – Part 2

by B.B. Pelletier

Part 1

One of our blog readers apparently doesn’t know how to leave comments on the blog, so he emailed them to Pyramyd Air. If he is reading, the way comments are left is by clicking on the Post a Comment found at the bottom of the comments for each blog report. To get to the Comments section, click on the (number of) Comments at the bottom of each blog report. If there are no comments, each new blog has the Post a Comment at the bottom of the blog, itself. That brings up a window in which you write your comment and then scroll down and submit it. If possible, give yourself a name, so I can respond to you by name, and try to remember which blog entry you asked your question on. I see all the questions, but if you don’t remember, you’ll never find my answer. On some blog entries there are now over 200 comments, and in the comments window you have to also click on “Newest” at the top of the comments window to see your comment and my answer.

Just this once I will address his question without him commenting. Marc Wasserman asks if I’m going to ever do the additional report I mentioned in the third part of the Ruger AirHawk report – where I said I wanted to look at the trigger further. Well, Marc, you caught me! I’d forgotten about that promise until reading it today. I’ll look at the AirHawk, which I still have, and see what can be done.

Please don’t use this method as a means of bypassing the word verification that is required for every blog comment. Yes, it’s clumsy and buggy – but that’s Google, not Pyramyd Air. This blog is so popular that if we were to take that off we would be flooded by spams that I would have to delete.

Pyramyd Air Garage Sale
Many of you are interested in the Garage Sale Pyramyd Air held last weekend. Owner Joshua Ungier took some pictures and asked me to share them with you.


Lots of great deals at the garage sale.


On Saturday, the crowd was large at times.

If you couldn’t make this sale, don’t forget Pyramyd Air will be at the Roanoke Airgun Expo on Friday and Saturday, October 24 & 25.

Today, I’ll look at the velocity of Wayne’s HW 55T. From examining and shooting the gun, I’m getting lots of indications that is was recently tuned, and perhaps hasn’t had time to break in, yet. The barrel latch is too stiff, like it was recently adjusted. And, the gun fires with just a “thunk.” A factory 55 would vibrate just a little, so I anticipate finding either black tar on the mainspring or a super-tight spring guide. Finally, I’ve spotted a lot of moly paste at the pivot point, but the factory uses only clear petroleum grease. So, that was added later. It all adds up to a recent tune.

You may remember that I reviewed the HW 55 SF I found at Little Rock for you. I thought I’d compare the velocity of that rifle against this one, just as a baseline of expectations. Here are the 4 reports on that gun.

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4

Firing behavior
I must say that I’m not pleased with the way this rifle performs right now. The barrel-locking latch is too stiff, as I noted, and there’s a dragging of the cocking shoe over the mainspring that, while normal on some tuned springers, is distracting nevertheless. I’ll see what can be done, if anything, when I go inside the rifle to examine the powerplant. I also don’t like the trigger setup. This is a special Rekord, and it’s capable of a very light release, yet this one is set up like an R1. Of all the Rekord triggers, the HW 55 trigger is special and deserves to be adjusted properly. I plan to make some adjustments, which I’ll describe for you in detail.

Velocity with Meisterkugeln
My HW 55 SF averaged 543 f.p.s. with RWS Meisterkugeln wadcutter target pellets. The spread was just 18 f.p.s., which is pretty good for a springer. This Tyrolean averages 516 f.p.s. with the same pellet and the spread is 27 f.p.s. That’s not too large, but it’s a clue the rifle is still breaking in, as is the slower velocity. The barrel latch may have something to do with this because the breech seal appears to be mashed pretty flat.

Velocity with RWS Hobbys
My 55 averaged 631 f.p.s. with RWS Hobbys with a spread of 38 f.p.s. That’s a little high, but at 10 meters you would never notice it. The Tyrolean averages 598 f.p.s. with the same pellet and exhibits a 40 f.p.s. spread. Not much difference except a little slower.

Velocity with Chinese blue-label target pellets
Back when I competed in 10-meter pistol, I found a Chinese target pellet that out-performed RWS R-10s and Beeman H&N Match pellets. They weigh a little less than H&N match pistol pellets, but since I don’t have enough of those for testing, I used this 7.6-grain substitute. They’re no longer available, so when my small stash is gone, I’ll have to find a new pellet. I got an average velocity of 598 f.p.s., with a spread of 21 f.p.s., the tightest of the test. The H&Ns gave an average of 622 with an extreme spread of 19 f.p.s. in my SF.

So, what did I learn?
A pre-tuneup test like this is a very helpful diagnostic for an airgunsmith. I now have a list of things to look for and several adjustments to be made. I’ll check to see if too much vibration-deadening grease has been applied to the mainspring. And, I’ll check the breech seal carefully. I’ll also adjust the trigger until it performs like I know a target Rekord can. And, I may adjust the barrel latch if it still seems too stiff when I get to it.

The next thing we’ll do is dive inside the rifle.

36 thoughts on “HW 55 Tyrolean – Part 2

  1. Wayne,

    Your postings are as good as the most interesting and useful of all. You have so many airguns, of course myself and everybody wants to hear from you. If you look at many of my best postings, you wil see that it stays to the airguns. I meant no disrespct to your father, simply trying to keep it to what most of us really want to read about, which is of course more Wayne gun postings. I dont know you and vica versa, so nothing personal:)


  2. Those Chinese match pellets you mentioned were quite nice. I had bought some from Golden Toller way back when. Down to my last coulpe of tins now.

    I’m suprised that no one ever picked up importing these guys.

    Al


  3. Anon,

    No personal offense taken, It’s a hard balance for me, I’m a creative thinker, and story teller by nature… It just slips out sometimes.. I’ll try to balance it better..

    B.B.
    I’m glad I’m not totally crazy, (I don’t mind being half crazy), the grinding sound on closing after cocking is a little abnormal..

    Boy am I lucky that you have so much interest in this air rifle, and are willing to tear into it, for me and the rest of us… We will learn a lot and the rifle gets better and better..

    Your experience is so deep, you notice things so easily, that the rest of us miss, like the mashed breech seal… How would I know if it is mashed too flat.. and the comparison to other rifles, most of us can’t do that..
    well…it goes on and on…

    Thanks, for sharing your knowledge base with us..

    Wayne,
    Ashland Air Rifle Range


  4. Wayne,

    I’m not certain the breech seal is mashed too flat – it’s just suspicious in light of how hard the barrel locking lever is camming the breech back. I will check it, but I am of the “leave it alone if it’s working” school, when it comes to replacing parts like breech seals.

    B.B.


  5. B.B.

    I bought an Air Arms S310 from a private party. I didn’t know they made one.. Do you or anyone, know anything about the S310? You know I love the S410, even with the broken magazine advance… I’m hoping it is a better version of the S410, maybe they cheapened the S410 for mass production, and the S310 is better. I can dream, right?

    Wayne,
    Ashland Air Rifle Range


  6. B.B.

    Ah, the garage sale. The flight out would wipe out any savings I would get unless I bought a mountain of stuff….

    On the subject of airgun evaluation, Stacey had a chance to look at my B30 and here is what she found:

    “Fact is, when I finally got a chance to look at it (we have been crazy here with lots of extra stuff going on including the garage sale we had last weekend) the stock was cracked really bad from the grip all the way through to in front of the trigger guard. I was able to put the pin back and used loctite to hopefully keep it there. It is the pin that screws into the action to hold the cocking lever to the piston. I cleaned up and tightened everything and found a new stock for it.”

    So, the mysterious pin held the cocking handle to the action. Glad I didn’t neglect this; it sounds like the rifle would have fallen apart shortly. But the corruption goes deeper! So, I didn’t get a sound rifle after all even on the third try. The stock was cracked which may have caused the loosening screws or that may have been a separate problem. I have a fantasy of someone going up to the desk of a Best Airgun Manufacturer executive, upending onto his desk a bag with my cracked stock, two sets of bad sights, loose trigger guard screw covered with rust and loose front sight and asking him what the hell he is doing. PA make my dream come true!

    In terms of a strict gun comparison the B30 now doesn’t compare to the RWS 48. Without Stacey and PA, the whole thing would have been a disaster, but as it is, I wonder if I may possibly be at the end of my troubles. Everything has been cleaned and tightened and I have an intact stock. Can BAM still manage to screw things up? That will be the question to answer. It is also worth noting that the problems of loose screws and assembly are things that aren’t too hard to fix. The all-important barrel and trigger which are up to the manufacturer are first-rate. In terms of money, I’m still way ahead. Whether the hassle of all this is worth it is a personal question. I would say that with this rifle, you had better count on an extra inspection and tune or at the very least the $10 lemon check that PA makes available.

    Matt61


  7. B.B. & All,

    Interesting pellet test..

    I just tested the 1950 ish Hy-Score youth rifle from Belgium.. 7.0 hobbys were; low 438fps, hi 453fps, avg 445fps…. JSB 8.4; low 407fps, hi 432fps, avg 417fps … I'm surprised the JSB were so close to the hobbys.. I guess they fit that much better in the barrel.

    The Hy-Score has this neat little pellet hook, that's spring loaded, and falls into place to push the pellet into the barrel about an 1/8", then it gets pushed up, out of the way, when you close the barrel.. pretty cool..

    This seems a little low fps, even for a youth rifle, is it about right? or low? Is there anything simple I can do, like oiling..? It sure is nice to hold and shoot..very sweet little gun.. I'm glad to have it in the collection, even if it only shoots 445fps..

    Wayne,
    Ashland Air Rifle Range


  8. Matt61,

    I too, am grateful for Stacy, Chris, Ariel and Paul at PA. They are a great team in Customer Service..

    But I wouldn’t put too much stock in the “$10 lemon check”, Chris said that is just a quick 10 shot test, and not an inspection of the quality of the gun.. it only catches the big stuff..

    I did the “10 shots for $10″ thing on both the Air Arms S410, and they had to go back, so it’s not foolproof..

    Wayne,
    Ashland Air Rifle Range



  9. Matt61,

    I just bought a B26-2 in .22 cal at the PA garage sale. It’s pretty OK for the money. I assumed that whatever $$$ I saved buying a lower dollar rifle, I’d put back into the gun in upgrade springs, guides, scope bases, and labor/machine time. If nothing else, these BAM guns are great learning experiences.

    derrick



  10. Well, Stacey tells me that the cracked stock is a common problem they see that is the result of shipping, so I can’t accuse BAM of that. It does give you pause about sending your gun anywhere. She says that the shippers tend to really sling those boxes around, especially if they are heavy I suppose. I’m going to add an extra foam pad into the Plano cases that I ship rifles in for the future.

    I guess you can’t expect everything for the $10 check, but the repairs have been sterling. I bet even Rich in Mich wouldn’t come up with a new stock for me.

    Wayne, how are you doing with the broken magazine for the S410? I would expect Air Arms to replace that with no question. We’re not talking B30 prices and that multi-shot capability is a huge feature as far as I’m concerned.

    As an aside, I’ve taken to cracking off ten 12 shot magazines in my 1077 as fast as I can go. At the distances I shoot at, the accuracy is unaffected. However, the barrel gets ice cold. Conversely, while shooting the M1 last weekend, after three 8 shot clips, the barrel felt like a frying pan to the touch; I had snatched my hand away reflexively. A bit odd since if a human wave charge were rolling down, I expect that you would cycle through many more than 3 clips. But I’m supposing that the barrels of both guns are okay.

    Matt61


  11. Matt,

    It’s not uncommon in battle to heat the barrel red-hot. That’s why the upper handguard is there.

    With machine guns, especially, you have to worry about it, because the barrel tends to curl when it gets that hot.

    You can also have a cookoff, which means the round fires without the primer being hit. A machine gun that cooks off can become a runaway, and the only way to stop it is the break the ammo belt.

    B.B.


  12. B.B.

    Thanks for saving me from myself on the BSF Wischo 55. Like new for $299?? Good thing I’ve never made it to any of the airguns shows. I doubt I could restrain myself.
    I checked back and that rifle sold for $450.00!

    Wayne,

    If you set up a search in Gunbroker the correct spelling is Wischo. It was wrong in the ad. As BB stated it could also be under BSF, the actual manufacturer. I have a search set for both, but have never had one show up. Since the spelling was incorrect, it was just chance that I saw that one.

    The guy who sold it is having a hard time with the larger guns. He bought my little Diana 25 circa the 1930’s to shoot. It is sort of a youth model size and shot in the 540 fps range. He described the action on it as being as easy as warm butter. I hope it will help him shoot longer.

    Matt61,

    I hate to sound like a broken record, but my first “adult” air rifle was an R-1 in .177 that I put in lay away at a local sporting goods store. No Internet at that time and they were one of the few Beeman dealers. Anyway, after 3 months of payments she was all mine. But most importantly this was my only air rifle for over 20 years and never needed any money or work.
    I did replace the barrel on it with a .22 cal after about ten years or so. I traded my only pistol, a Beeman P-1 for the barrel. Why? Tom Gaylord’s book on the R-1. I bought it when it first came out, and on the first few pages he explains that an R-1 is best in .22 cal.

    Your experience with the BAM makes me wonder how many new air gunners would just throw in the towel. You don’t deserve all those headaches in what is supposed to be a relaxing pastime. My $.02 as usual.

    Volvo


  13. Volvo,

    I know you are a family man, but at least consider attending the Roanoke airgun show in October. Yes, the drive will eat a day both ways (two for me) and yes, it is a weekend, but the opportunity to see vintage airguns abounds!

    I once watched a military Girandoni repeater of 1780 change hands for $3,500. The last one I saw sell in Europe a few years ago brought about $50,000. I have seen three BB guns change hands for $41,000! I had someone buy a tinplate gun from me for $1,000! I paid $72 for it and thought it was worth $150!

    Each show is different, and there may not be another BSF 55 for two years, but I kind of doubt it. The folks who don’t enjoy the shows are those who come with a single purpose – perhaps to find an FWB 124 – and this will be the one show without one! But there will be 4 Erma ELG-10s and 5 HW 35s and a couple of collectible Webley Mark III rifles in their place.

    As Roseanne Rosannadanna said, “It’s always something.”

    B.B.


  14. Volvo,

    So, it’s actually possible to own guns without something always breaking. I’m encouraged. Yes, one of the first documents I read on airgunning was an interview with Robert Beeman about how great the R1 is, and researching further I had my R series guns all picked out, but I got sidetracked.

    B.B., sounds like armies must have big depots of spare barrels stashed near the front lines. I guess the M1 barrel can tolerate much hotter than I made it.

    Matt61


  15. Hi to everyone!!
    A couple days ago I mounted a CenterPoint 3-9x40AO illuminated Mil dot scope to my Gamo Whisper VH…… Since then, it hasn’t been shooting as consistent as with the factory scope… I dont know if it may be damaged or something… or maybe it adds too much weight to the rifle, since the difference in weight between both scopes is pretty huge… Is that possible?? Can the weight of a scope alter somehow the recoil pattern of an air rifle as lightweight as my Whisper???? THANK YOU!!
    Cheers,
    Jony



  16. BB,

    I will be curious to see what the inside of this 55T looks like. Mine is shooting the Chinese Blue label wadcutters at 601 avg with a spread of 596-605. I still have the leather piston seal and leather breach seal with the original spring. One question though, I cannot find a SN on this gun anywhere. It is a San Rafael Beeman but the only markings I can find are on the barrel breach block, the spring tube is completely clean. Any ideas.

    Sam


  17. Matt61,

    I’m sorry to say that PA. sent the wrong repair kit, one miss out of many great services….It’s no big deal, like I said, I can still get shots off faster than a single shot, removing and spinning the mag a notch is easy… And Paul, said that Chris in the tech dept. finally got the springs from mendoza for my Avenger 1100s, so they got new springs and tightening of the barrel hinge… Maybe I’ll get them back before B.B. finishes his test on them.. Then we can have a deeper study on them…. and see if the Avenger 1100 and I can put the 45 hits on a 1″ dot at 60′ again..

    Volvo,

    Thanks again for the tips on shopping Gunbroker, your way ahead of me, maybe I should give you a budget and have you buy for me…
    Your also closer the Roanoke airgun show in October, aren’t you?

    How could anyone be farther than Ashland, Or.

    B.B.

    There was oil coming out the end of the barrel as I ran it through the crony, should I add more? They probably oiled the heck out of it so they could say “it shoots real hard” hmmmm? How often do you see a Hy-Score youth rifle from Belgium? Is it worth rebuilding? The stock is very nice.. 445fps is not too bad.. is it?

    Wayne,
    Ashland Air Rifle Range


  18. Wayne,

    Are you going to get the mag fixed at some point? That would really bug me.

    To all, I want to say that I am a fan of Leapers scopes again now that a replacement has arrived for my 6-24X50mm. Customer service was super, and it works fine. I still don’t see the need to have replaced the old positive click system with the zero lock feature but it works as it’s supposed to and I might even get to like playing with the dials.

    Matt61


  19. B.B.

    Thank you for the warm invitation. Believe me if I don’t attend, it will not be due to a lack of desire.
    Unfortunately, my line of work is a little slow right and as you mentioned family is my main priority.

    Wayne

    Yes I’m closer, I thought about visiting your range when it opens until I googled your address, I think it was about 2400 miles. I’ll have to settle for pictures.
    I believe Diana would have made your Hy-Score. Does it have a model number like 801?

    Volvo




  20. Matt61,

    I bought a Leapers after I gave up on winning a Beeman SS-2. Most of my other scopes are old school so I had my doubts, but I think it is an outstanding value. When my power was out, I put a flashlight on the target, one on the pellet tin and turned the light on in the scope. Was a great set up.

    Volvo


  21. Wayne,

    I’m guessing you did not order an Airgun Blue book yet? Your Diana equivalent model number is 25. Several series were made in it. The Blue Book states over 10 million model 25’s were made making them one of the worlds most successful air rifles. Values are modest.
    The one I sold had the dated stamped in the butt stock. Looked like this 11.34 = November 1934.

    Yours may have too much oil. Maybe stand it on end?

    Volvo


  22. Volvo,

    You guessed right, I haven’t ordered the Blue Book yet, It’s on my list for tomorrow..
    The Butt stock has “Made in Belgium”, but no numbers…

    There is no scope rail, did yours have one? But the open sights are metal at least, and are easy use..

    It’s on it’s end now, I’ll try it tomorrow..

    Thanks again for the help..
    Wayne


  23. BB,

    In CO2 rifles, how I calculate the increase in muzzle velocity due to increased temperature? For example. a rifle shoots at 625 fps at 72 degrees, what is the velocity if the temperature increases to 86 degrees?

    I only saw psi change formulas with google. Is psi directly proportional with velocity? Thanks


  24. Wayne:

    Your little HyScore was actualy made by Anciens Etablissements Pieper in Herstal Belgum. The made in Belgium and the pellet loader give it away. Later 801′s were Diana 25′s.

    Its a nice little rifle. I’ve never happend to shoot mine over the chrono ; so can’t give you any help there.

    Al


  25. Sam,

    The serial number on Weihrauchs moved around over the years. The one I’m reporting on (Wayne’s – so far), is on the bottom of the barrel, just ahead of the bas block.

    On a really old gun, the serial number may be stamped into the bottom of the base block, itself.

    B.B.




  26. B.B.
    The scope is mounted on a high mount… The Windage and Elevation are zeroed in… but I just can’t hit the same spot twice in a row… It either shoots one inch to the right, and then one inch to the left… It didn’t happened before with the factory scope that came with the laser and flashlight…. That’s why it came to mind that probably the front weight of the scope is altering the recoiling after every shot, consequently affecting the accuracy… The scope is almost an inch and a half longer and about 10oz heavier…. By the way, I have also installed the Gas Ram…. Today I shot at 50 feet, and the same thing, I am pretty frustrated… Anyways, what do you (or anyone else) think???



  27. Jony,

    I see two possibilities. First and most likely is a parallax shift, due to the high mounts. Put some tape on the stock where your cheek touches and always touch the tape when you shoot.

    Second and far less likely is you are tearijg a big hole in the aluminum scope base on the rifle and that is causing a shift.

    Scope do not shift by themselves. The most common cause of shifting is when the vertical adjustment is too high. But where you put your head on the stock can also be a problem.

    I don’t see how extra weight could be the problem. It could change where the pellet impact, but they would all go to the new spot.

    Are you using an artillery hold when you shoot?

    B.B.


  28. Yes sir… I use the artillery hold… Well, thank you very much for your info… I will consider the `cheek possibility`…… Take care sir… By the way, this is a very informative forum, keep up the good work and the good organization……


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