Walther Talon Magnum – Part 2

by B.B. Pelletier

Part 1

Before we begin, don’t miss the video of the 2008 Roanoke Airgun Expo.


Walther’s Talon Magnum is the .177 version of the Falcon Hunter. This is a big air rifle!

Today is truth day for the Walther Talon Magnum. We’re goiung to test velocity. This is the .177-caliber version of the Walther Falcon Hunter, which comes in either .22 or .25 caliber. The .177 promises a muzzle velocity of 1400 f.p.s. with super-light pellets and 1200 f.p.s. for lead pellets. Today, we’ll find out how close it comes.

This is a BIG airgun!
I have to reiterate that this rifle is not for plinking. It’s made for hunting. Period. The 50-lb. cocking effort will put a strain on those biceps, whether you’re in shape or not. And the effort needed to break open the barrel is fully equal to the British-made Webley Patriot. Even closing it takes a forceful slam.

Trigger-pull
The trigger is two-stage and very long and creepy. It surprised me with a release weight of just 4 lbs., 14 oz. I was expecting the scale to top out at 8 lbs. before the rifle fired. I think a long break-in will help both the trigger and the cocking effort, though neither will ever become light.

Crosman Premier 10.5-grain pellets
I started the test with Crosman Premier heavy pellets to get the detonations out of the way. Indeed, the first several shots were much higher than the average velocity of 904 f.p.s. That gives a muzzle energy of 19.06 foot-pounds. The spread of this string was 892 f.p.s. to 914 f.p.s., which is pretty tight for a new gun.

RWS Clubs
RWS Club pellets were next. They weigh 7 grains even and are expected to go supersonic. They averaged 1132 f.p.s. in this rifle, with a spread from 1113 to 1148 f.p.s. The muzzle energy of the average velocity is 19.92 foot-pounds. As expected, the lighter pellets give greater energy in a spring-piston gun. The spread is on the high side, but not out of reason for a new gun.

RWS Superdomes
RWS Superdomes came next. These 8.3-grain pellets gave an average velocity of 1065 f.p.s. The spread was from, 1047 to 1085 f.p.s., which is a little larger than we like to see. Perhaps, when the oil burns off, the gun will stabilize. The average velocity gives an energy of 20.91 foot-pounds, which is really getting up there for a .177 springer.

BUT DON’TCHA WANNA KNOW HOW FAST IT GOES?

Of course you do! Many of you know better, but this is like the accident on the side of the highway–you just gotta peek.

Crosman Silver Eagle Hollowpoints
The Walther Talon Magnum is one of the fastest spring-piston air rifles ever produced. With Crosman Silver Eagle Hollowpoint pellets, it averaged 1,323 f.p.s. The spread was from 1156 f.p.s to 1,543 f.p.s., but a look at the entire string of ten shots will prove revealing:

1543
1253
1200
1534
1404
1156
1292
1329
1229
1293

I hope you can see that the average I computed is probably not representative of the gun. It’s still detonating too much for the numbers to be correct. Or, perhaps better put, this is a case where a sample of 30 shots would be more exact than 10. Even then, the gun is adjusting itself; the average in another thousand shots will probably be lower. I would expect something in the low 1,200s when the gun is fully broken in.

This is a big, powerful air rifle. Buy it knowing that and you shouldn’t be disappointed.

52 Responses to “Walther Talon Magnum – Part 2”

  • Mr B. Says:

    Good morning B.B. I’m waiting to see how this gun groups. At what range does the pellet become subsonic and how does this affect its accuracy? Have a wondeful day folks–Mr B.

  • kevin Says:

    B.B.,

    Great job on the video. Must have been an editing nightmare. I think I saw a broken gun that was part of a gary barnes fiasco. Maybe not.

    Here’s a trick that I’d like to pass along to you. You may already know about this. To keep things interesting when shooting targets, I print off a variety of targets free from the pro target site and then xerox them to keep costs down. Unlike the heavy paper targets you buy these don’t leave very clean holes when shot. Some people bend back the edges of the ragged holes to take pictures. My trick is to put a small piece of duct tape behind the bullseye. Very clean holes.

    kevin

  • Vince Says:

    BB, how does the gun feel? The Hatsan-built Daisy Powerlines I had (3 of them – definitely a love-hate relationship) were very hard hitting and very accurate. But they also felt very cheap, clunky, ‘unrefined’, whatever you wanna call it – and I always gotthe feeling that the gun was gonna eventually bang itself apart.

  • BG_Farmer Says:

    BB,

    How many cracks,booms and whines did you hear during testing? It looks like its going supersonic more than half of the time! I can’t imagine this rifle being much fun to shoot — although obviously that is not the point of it.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Mr. B.,

    The ranges at which pellets become subsonic differ with their ballistic coefficient and initial velocity, but no pellet will still be supersonic at 50 yards. Most will not be supersonic at 25 yards.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Kevin,

    The video was relatively easy to edit because I spoke on camera most of the time. I only had to use voice-over once, when I got a name wrong in the beginning.

    That duct tape trick sounds fantastic. Does it have a velocity limitation?

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Vince,

    Unrefined is a good description. Big and unrefined.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    BG_Farmer,

    This is one of the very few spring piston rifles that caused me to wear hearing protection while I tested the velocity. The steel trap was noisy, of course, but as you pointed out, many of the shots went supersonic and the noise was as great as a loud PCP.

    B.B.

  • kevin Says:

    B.B.,

    Re: Velocity limitation for duct tape

    The most powerful gun I’ve shot at targets with duct tape behind the bullseye is the diana 54. Clean holes. Not sure if a more powerful gun would make a ragged hole. Someone with a more powerful gun needs to try this. Just make sure you press the duct tape firmly to the back of the bullseye.

    kevin

  • wayne Says:

    B.B.

    Wow, What a great video of the show!! I’ll be there next year with a pile of money I’ve saved up, I hope.. The best stuff at the best prices, “buy” the looks of it…

    The Walther Talon Magnum is just the opposite of where I’m going with my inventory, but I can see where someone, some strong someone, might want it for hunting without a scuba tank or pump.. but I didn’t see any groups yet.. Sure it’s powerful, but can you hit anything with it.. Can you control the recoil? I’d almost rather get a little closer and use a HW30 or HW77, something with accuracy and easy to hold through the shot.. But that’s just me..

    Thanks so much for the video.. I’m so glad I asked you to do it and you did!! Your the man!! .. and I will get three of the tree targets from Dick at “After Hours Target co”.. to add to the dozen ground models that work so well..

    Wayne,
    Ashland Air Rifle Range

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Kevin,

    Thanks. I was asking about the lower limit, but I think I have a solution. I’ll just use Scotch tape.

    Thanks,

    B.B.

  • kevin Says:

    B.B.,

    Lower limit works even better with duct tape. I'm shooting the diana 27 at 20 yards and get great clean holes. Especially with the wadcutters like beeman h & n's and meisterkugeln's.

    kevin

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Kevin,

    Thanks. That’s what I wanted to know.

    B.B.

  • wayne Says:

    Kevin,
    That's a great idea with the tape. I'm going to try a patch behind each dot on the 25- 1/8" dot page.

    By the way, I've been meaning to ask about hunting with the Marlin 336 30/30… you mentioned that you don't hunt anything over 50 yards with a 30/30, I think.. Is that because it's hard to deal with the drop, and be accurate, or because it won't do the job even if you hit the lung/heart area, with the side shot at 100 or 150 yards?

    Wayne,
    AARR&R

  • Anonymous Says:

    Kevin,

    That’s a great idea with the tape that could save me a bundle over time.

    B.B., whoa what happened to the HW30? I used to think that might be a purchase one day at a little over $200 and within months it has rocketed to almost $350. Is that because of limited availability?

    Matt61

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Matt,

    It’s several things. First, the Euro has leaped ahead. Second, Germany has increased all prices because they’re getting taxed to death over there. Look at the Beeman prices.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Matt61,

    At the new price I would strongly consider a used R-7, due to the better trigger or a new HW30S if you can find one.

    Keep in mind if you do decide to send it for a tune, seals and the like do not matter as they will be replaced.

    You should keep tabs with Wayne also; he just sold a couple on the yellow classified for $210 I think.

    Volvo

  • Mr B. Says:

    Kevin, thanks for the duct tape trick. Just went out to give it a try, but the wind was blowing so hard that it wouldn’t stay on the paper. Seriously though, nice round holes with either wadcutters , Kodiaks, or JSB’s. I’ve been shooting at those gummed reinforcments, that my kids used for 3 holed notebook paper, stuck on cut up carboard boxes. Shoot small and miss small.
    Wayne: the 30/30 is a great deer killer. That soft pointed bullet is designed to work at its modest velocity (compaired to all the magnums) and will put meat on the table with every lung shot at your 150 yards. The evolution bullet with its soft plastic tip, so you can use them safely in a tubular magazine, gives you a bullet with a higher ballistic coefficient which extends its range, ie, flatter trajectory and more energy, to a couple hundred yards. Mr B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    BB, R.E.
    I have a chance at a enfield MK4 no2 rifle again for 145$. Barrel conditions good, little surface rust, original stock is in good shape and the action looks good. I would plan on modifying the stock. Why did makers put a wood slab on top of the barrel? I would cut the fore arm length in half, is this safe? P.S.I saw a k98 with full trademarks and its an early model with the 3inch thick stock and the long barrel.
    Shadow express dude

  • BG_Farmer Says:

    Wayne,

    Mr. B’s right. Kevin said he hadn’t shot and wouldn’t shoot an elk past 50 yards w/30-30 and that you shouldn’t shoot one past 100 yards, if I remember correctly. I think that’s a good rule, too: elk are much bigger than deer and you have a .270 for those occasions. Deer at 150 yards with 30-30 should be no problem as far as termination power, as long as you can place your shot.

  • Anonymous Says:

    mr b.
    How would a 30.30 compare to a .458bushmaster(my favorite) or a .303british (btw those old rounds are EXPENSIVE).

    BB,
    whats your favorite medium game caliber. I like big, heavy, and around 2000fps
    Shadow express dude

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    SED,

    Why didn’t I answer this question earlier? Yes, grab that No. 4 Enfield at that price.

    The upper handguns keeps you from burning your hand when the barrel gets hot. You’ll never notice it in a sporting rifle, but a military barrel can get red hot in a firefight.

    Hence most good modern military rifle have handguards.

    There is no danger to the rifle when cutting the forearm, as long as the barrel and action remain properly bedded. I left my No. 4 the way it was issued and I love it! Very little recoil.

    For medium game, if we mean mule deer, I like the 6.5X55mm Swede Mauser. I load it with a 120-grain spitzer boattail at 2,000 f.p.;s. and there is almost no recoiul. The accuracy is terrific.

    The 98 Mauser leaves me cold because of the caliber. I just got rid of one that was in new condition because that 7.92mm Mauser round kicks more than a .30-06. But an 1896 Swede Mauser is a thing of beauty to my eyes.

    B.B.

  • kevin Says:

    B.B.,

    You’re welcome.

    Wayne,

    When I hunted elk my back up gun was a model 94 .30-.30 with open sights for the times I had to chase an elk into black timber that had been shot. These parts of our forests are so thick that you can’t see an elk at 50 yards very often. Good gun for close work with elk. Elk are big, strong and tough and I think a .30-.30 is undersized for the job at typical distances you shoot elk. I agree with what was said above, a .30-.30 is a good deer gun.

    Everyone,

    Now there are 10,001 uses for duct tape.

    kevin

  • wayne Says:

    Mr. B, Dr. G. & Kevin,

    Thanks for that info about the 30/30.. The reason I ask, although the season is over now, is I found our elk area similar, with very dense cover next to open feeding areas. I got it quick that bringing two guns on a hike is not going to work.. So, with the .270 in the car, off you go up the deer/elk trail in the thick stuff, but come to burned out open areas or ridge tops where 150 yard open shots are very possible, while they munch on elderberries and young conifers…

    So, when I go to get supplies, and stop by the center fire range, I practice from the sitting FT position with the Marlin 336 30/30 and the see thru mounts, so I can use the open sights and the 8-32x56AO on top. I set up a 50 yard target, and a 150 yard target.. I go back and forth from 50 yard open sights one shot, and as quick as possible a shot at 150 yards through the scope.. in both cases, most times, I get 4 to 6" groups with 170gr federals..

    So, I that's why I asked, and thanks very much folks… I'll keep practicing to get that down to 2" by next season, so I can carry the one gun and feel ok at taking a shot at 150 yards, especially if it's a deer, and maybe a 100 yards for elk.

    Wayne

  • Anonymous Says:

    NRA and the Discovery

    http://www.americanrifleman.org/rifles_boltActions_BenjDisc.html

    Nice to see Air Rifles in mags.

    Volvo

  • Anonymous Says:

    Volvo,

    Thanks for the link. I’m always glad to read American Rifleman and especially about airguns. But since their area is firearms, I doubt that we’re getting more expertise than here. However, it is interesting to evaluate the Discovery based on their 5 group 5 shot protocol. They shot at 50 yards with a variety of pellets and came up with an average group size of 1.32 inches. (Smallest group size was with Crosman pellets at 1.08 in.) This was all done in .22 caliber. B.B., would the .177 be flatter shooting?

    Wayne, from the country you describe hunting in you might want to look at the Jeff Cooper Art of the Rifle book. He argues hard for finding a rest wherever you possibly can, and he has an amazing variety of shooting positions, including many field expedient ones, to make this possible. In addition to all the ones you might have heard about are what he calls “jackass” variations.

    Matt61

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Matt,

    Did you notice they did that with open sights? A scope would have shrunk those groups in half-at least.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    B.B.:
    Where can I buy a siphon tube for a CO2 bulk-fill tank I just bought?? And how much approximately it costs???

    Rob

  • ajvenom Says:

    I’ve noticed our AGs seem way more expensive (nearly twice the price) over their vs theirs over here (nearly the same).

    BTW…BB/TG I have to ask why is your shirt red in your blog pic? Looks highlighted. It’s really bugging me after seeing your other pic for so long.

    http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/need_advice.pl

    I think the man in black looks better.

    Perhaps you could use a pic from your competition shoots or get out that Hawiian like shirt out again and take out some more targets with the big bore again.

    Just kidding around!!!

    -AJ

  • Jon F. Says:

    b.b., Concerning my new TX-200; I had already contacted Pyramyd by phone on Friday about a missing tin of pellets and I told them then about the conditions which I had observed upon receiving the rifle. They took my contact information at that time.

  • Anonymous Says:

    B.B.

    No, I didn’t. I had assumed that scoping the rifle was standard since I thought they were trying to maximize accuracy and they are so ironclad about the rest of their procedure. Isn’t that rather odd?

    Anyway, that changes the picture dramatically. Better accuracy than that I don’t need.

    Matt61

  • Mr B. Says:

    Shadow express dude, I cann’t speak to the 458 Bushmaster cause it’s an unknown to me. I would put the 303 on a close par with our 30 06. I think the 458 is on the AR platform which would make a good choice for a close range thumper. Mr B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Matt61,

    Matt61,

    You are correct; the level of expertise when reviewing air rifles is often not present.

    I just like to see them in more mainstream arenas.

    I will credit the Discovery for increasing awareness of the sport.

    On the other side of the coin, I am concerned the big bore PCP airguns could encourage more legislation restricting airgun sales and use.

    Volvo

  • DB Says:

    B.B.,
    Sent my Disco back for repair. Should be back in a week or so.

    Have a totally unrelated question. I was reading Airgun Digest and it spoke of a Beeman Automatic Pell Sizer.

    Is such a thing still valid today or has pell quality improved too much?

    Thanks,
    DB

  • DB Says:

    B.B.,
    Found you May 2005 blog concerning pell sizing. And that anwers my question.

    DB

  • ajvenom Says:

    BTW cool video on the airgun show. My wife would never go for it, but for me they’d have to close the show before I left. LOL!!!!

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Rob,

    Any industrial gas supply house that deals in CO2 should be able to install a siphon tube in your tank.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    AJ,

    The false color in the picture is due to Blogger software. I am colorblind, so my wife is working to correct it.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Jon,

    Thank you for contacting PA.

    B.B.

  • ajvenom Says:

    Tom,

    Well, tell Mrs. E.G. thanks. She’s done a good job of keeping you out trouble……so far.

    Looking back, I remember your “frozen tundra” RV trip and the pic you posted. Despite ths cold, you two still managed to take a good picture. “Such a cute couple”, as my wife would say.

    All the best!!!

    -AJ

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    AJ,

    Regarding the trouble, the day is still early.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Oh man,
    I bought the falcon Hunter .25. Returned it the next day.
    It needs a tank to open it.
    It needs a bulldozer to cock it.
    It needs the tank back to close it.
    All that for 26 ft/lbs!
    Viva Diana 350mag. Yes quality matters.

    Hesam, AZ

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Hesam, AZ,

    If you bought it from Pyramyd Air, please write a review about the gun and mention those things. When I review a gun I tell people exactly what to expect, but so many of them focus on the performance and disregard the other comments. Until they experience it for themselves, I don’t think they comprehend haw hard these magnum springers can be.

    Of course you can get a PCP and forget everything. They have even more power and are easy to operate. But some of them are also loud, so don’t overlook that.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Hello to all,
    I purchased the .22 cal Air Venturi Talon Magnum and must say this thing kicks butt!

    CP domed = 890 fps / CP hollow point = 880 fps / Beeman silver bear hollow point 12.65gn = 970 fps.

    This gun gives one heck of a kick; however, it is not a spring kick; Short and sharp without the twang. Furthermore; I have noticed that many times the recoil was so sharp that I totally come off target but the pellet hit dead on. This means that the pellet is out of the barrel before the recoil hits which is much like a traditional powder rifle. With a target set at 80 yards I have no problem grouping 1 – 1.5 inches. Infact, I have shot this rifle out to 125 yards and grouped 4 inches. Not bad for a “pellet gun.”

    The only bad point is the plastic stock. I am planning on making a walnut stock for it to absorb much of the recoil.

    I hope this helps everyone. Like B.B. said…this is not your typical “plinking” rifle. This gun shoots far and carries a punch. I have been shooting “tree rodents” out to 80 yards + no problem.

    This rifle also seems to be getting more accurate the more pellets I feed it (1200 pellets).

    Have fun and shot safe.

    Jeff

  • Anonymous Says:

    Heavy but very accurate. Wish the stock is wood instead of plastic.

  • Anonymous Says:

    I bought the Talon Magnum in .177 for pest control and hunting. It is simply a great rifle for those purposes. I replaced the junky scope that came with the rifle with a CenterPoint 4x16x40 AO Adventure series. This has proven to be a great combination. I primarily shoot Crosman Premier Hollow Points in mine and they shoot great groups. I think the heaviness of the gun helps me manage the recoil. If it had a wood stock, I'd call it a pretty perfect break barrel. I think rabbits and squirrels call it something else… :-)

  • Ryan Says:

    Hi B.B.,

    Just wondering what you thought of umarex's closeout specials:
    http://www.umarexusa.com/product/Walther-Talon-Magnum-DEMO,205,3.htm

    Also, when you say the Talon's avg. will drop down around 1200 fps, is that because it will stop detonating, or because that is the nature of springers?

    Thanks!
    Ryan

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Ryan,

    Umarex makes it pretty clear they will not back up these blems with any warranty. So if you buy one you are on your own.

    Yes, the slower figure is without detonations.

    B.B.

  • Vince Says:

    Ryan, my experience with Umarex says that if you get one of their demo's and there's something seriously wrong with it OUT OF THE BOX they will take care of it. But, as BB states, there is no warranty as such – don't expect to be able to return it if you break a spring two weeks after you bought it.

  • Ryan Says:

    Hey B.B. and Vince,

    Thanks so much for your info…that really helps. yeah, I think I'll stay away from the close-out special, especially when I can get this gun for about $70 more from Pyramid–brand new.

    Ryan

  • Justin Says:

    BB,
    In your review you said the Walther Talon Magnum comes only in .177, while on the Pyramid Air site it shows it available in .177 and .22. If it is available in .22, that brings me to my question. I am looking at upgrading from my crossman quest 1000, which I have been using to hunt small game for 4 years. I am attracted to the Talon Magnum and the Benjamin Trail NP XL both in .22. On the Pyramid Air site they are both listed at $299 and have similiar velocities. For someone primarily concerned with accuracy and reliability in hunting primarily rabbits, which would you recommend?
    Thanks, Justin

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Justin,

    When you read these reviews, you need to take their published dates into consideration. When I wrote that, .177 was the only caliber they were supplying. Now they have expanded to .22.

    My pick between the two rifles would be the Walther with gas spring.

    B.B.

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