Tuesday, April 14, 2009

New Makarov pistol! - Part 2

by B.B. Pelletier

Part 1

Okay, there was a lot of interest in this Makarov air pistol in the comments on Part 1, so I'm going to expand the report a little. Today, I'll examine velocity, and I will also shoot the Baikal Makarov that's no longer legal to import into the U.S.

Charging the gun
A CO2 cartridge is inserted into the grip, and the screw is tightened to pierce the cartridge. Remember to use Crosman Pellgunoil on the tip of each new cartridge, and the gun will stay sealed for many years. Also, stop tightening the screw when the hissing stops. Beyond that, you're just mashing the seal, which will cause early failure.

Shooting
The Makarov fires in both the single-action and double-action modes, so naturally I tested it both ways. Usually, a CO2 gun fires stronger in one mode than the other, and the double-action mode is most often the strongest in my experience.

I paused at least 30 seconds between shots and sometimes several minutes passed. That allows the gun to warm up after the cooling effect of the shot. The office temp was 70 deg. F when I tested.

Double-action
Double-action is the mode where the trigger both cocks and fires the gun. Since this pistol doesn't have blowback, every shot will be double-action unless you manually cock the hammer.

I shot the gun with Daisy Premium-Grade BBs, which averaged 361 f.p.s. in double-action. The velocity ranged from a low of 353 f.p.s. to a high of 381 f.p.s. The trigger-pull is smooth and "stacks" at the end for better control. That means it increases in weight just before releasing, which is a classic double-action pull. It's like having a second stage in a double-action pull.

Single-action
Single-action is the mode where the hammer is cocked separately before the trigger is pulled. With this pistol, the hammer pulls back, then rides forward a bit before being caught by the sear. Velocity with the same BBs averaged 362 f.p.s., which is too close to double-action to say which mode is faster. They are remarkably similar. In single-action, the velocity ranged from 356 f.p.s. to 373 f.p.s., so the total spread is 11 f.p.s.

The single-action trigger-pull is two-stage with a long first stage and some creep in stage two. It is, however, a sweet pull when compared to other BB guns. And, considering the price, there's nothing made of metal that's close.

How many shots per cartridge?
How many shots per cartridge is an important number for air pistol enthusiasts. The velocity gives some clue. If it's below 400 f.p.s. and the gun doesn't have blowback, you're going to get more than the standard 50 shots. Shots 51-60 averaged 359 f.p.s. and ranged from 356 to 364. I only paused 10 seconds between shots and one minute after shot five. Shots 61-70 averaged 356 with a low of 351 and a high of 362. Same rest interval was observed. Shots 71-80 averaged 364 with a low of 356 and a high of 373. Yes--you read that right. These shots in the 71st to 80th spot were the fastest recorded thus far. Shots 81-90 averaged 352 with a low of 340 and a high of 363. The power fell off sharply at shot 86, so I didn't try to shoot more than 90 shots. But that's a good number for a BB gun that holds its power to the very end.

Comparison to the Baikal Makarov BB pistol
Then, I loaded my Baikal Makarov BB pistol for a velocity comparison test. This pistol cannot be imported into the U.S. anymore because it can be transformed back into a firearm, according to the BATF&E. But several blog readers asked for this comparison anyway, so I'm including it.

The Baikal Mak averaged 396 f.p.s. in double-action and 396 in single-action. It was just as consistent as the Umarex and 35 feet per second faster. The spread in double-action was from 371 to 410 and in single-action from 372 to 414. So, the Russian pistol is not quite as well-regulated as the Umarex version. Also, it will run out of gas faster because of the higher average velocity.

The last Baikal BB pistol I saw listed a few weeks ago was at $350, which I would normally say is way out of profile, but in this day of gun shortages maybe not. A Russian Mak firearm in excellent condition certainly goes for more than that, and the BB gun is in very limited supply. So, this Umarex Mak is a real bargain! And it's an order of magnitude more attractive than the Baikal Mak.

Next time, we'll look at accuracy and yes, I will include the Baikal.

43 Comments:

At April 14, 2009 6:34 AM, Anonymous Mr B. said...

Good morning B.B.,

Hope that you and your wife had a wonderful Easter. Just joined the Berwyn Rod and Gun Club which gives us a nice place to shoot. Can finally get some target time at more than the 16-20 yards which is all the distance I can get in my yard.

CO2 pistols are too loud for a bunch of us city yard shooters to use, but we do enjoy reading about them.

Speaking of nip, wish I had taken a picture of Muffles with his head in the nip bowl sound asleep, passed out maybe?

Navy Seals, gotta love those guys. The 8 o'clock news lady this AM was doing an interview with a Politico Spokes Person. The news lady refired to the piracy as President Obama's first international challenge--I flipped and wondered what she called the North Korean missle launch. That statment wasn't corrected by the Politico Rep. Mores the pity.

Have a great day Mr B.

 
At April 14, 2009 6:44 AM, Anonymous twotalon said...

Mr B.
Must have been some good nip.

twotalon

 
At April 14, 2009 7:50 AM, Blogger FRED said...

Morning BB,

I find it somewhat astonishing that a BB pistol can be converted into a firearm or back into a firearm? In your opinion, is this really possible without totally re-machining the frame or is ATF just "whistling" up a rope?

On another topic, is there no one in the Dallas area (I think that's where you're located) that would volunteer to do some of that lengthy shooting with the Marauder and other PCP's so as to provide you with the data you need to show the ideal pressure and shot string rather than you going through the procedure? Just a thought.


Fred

 
At April 14, 2009 8:20 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Fred,

After examining the Baikal Makarov BB pistol next to my 9X18 Mak I agree that it can be converted to a firearm. Not even too difficult to do.

My dream would be to have a home range at 100 yards and several young teenagers I could train to shoot. With a team like that, I could triple my output.

B.B.

 
At April 14, 2009 8:35 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'll second your statement about there being a price hike in firearms these days. Do you think it's because of the fear of the new administration?

Another question for you BB. I see that in addition to Crosman's Disco and now the new Marauder, that a few other companies are releasing lower priced PCP's. I see this only as a good thing, but I wonder if that means other power plants (like springers, or c02) will end up falling by the wayside as components and charging gear become cheaper. What do you think?

You mentioned a while back about us being in a golden age or good age of airgunning. I can totally see that. It's overwhelming :-) I keep thinking that I know what I want and then something new comes out and I get confused.

Anyway, I'll stop blabbing now.

Al in CT

 
At April 14, 2009 9:01 AM, Blogger kevin said...

Chuck,

Just read about your duct seal and rubber panel experiences with your pellet traps that you posted on yesterdays blog.

I had similar experiences. I recently made 3 more pellet traps. I wanted something that could be left outside. Tired of carrying pellet traps with duct seal back and forth. Bought 3 outdoor rated metal boxes that were designed to house sprinkler controls and included key locks to secure the door. They're a little big at 4" x 14" x 18" but at $14.00 each shipped (ebay) I thought I'd try them.

Originally I was looking for large metal boxes designed as breaker boxes but I'm glad I found these since the door opens more conventionally.

I too remembered rocket scientist Janes comments about her success shooting into LE rubber panels. Being the original El Cheapo Grande I found liquid rubber at Lowes (made for dipping and coating tool handles). I made a dam in one of the boxes and created an area roughly 10" x 10" and built the area up with the liquid rubber to almost 2" thickness. This took 4 days since this liquid rubber must be poured in stages and drys very slowly. Pellets in low powered guns would stick in the rubber but high power (800fps +) would bounce back. Bad idea. Don't do what I did.

Duct seal, although heavy, can't be beat. Couldn't find near enough duct seal at the home depots or lowes in my area to fill all 3 boxes. Ended up going to an electrical supply wholesaler and bought a case of the 5 lb pugs. About half the price of the duct seal in 1 lb pugs that I bought at home depot.

kevin

 
At April 14, 2009 9:15 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Al,

I wouldn't worry about springers and CO2 guns going away. PCPs are just a tiny fraction of all the guns sold thus far in the world. Crosman makes more money from one day's production on the 760 line than they do with the total production of their PCPs for the year.

That's a huge difference That comparison came from them.

B.B.

 
At April 14, 2009 10:00 AM, Blogger CJr said...

BB,
BBs? Do I need a BB pistol to go with my pellet one? "Well, what do you think, Chuck?" Shut...up! Get out of my head! I am astounded that a BB pistol can be converted to a firearm.

Kevin,
Thanks for that pug post. You reminded me that there is an electric wholesaler in town. I never thought of that. I think a visit there is in order. What's the price of a pack of pente pound pugs?

-Chuck

 
At April 14, 2009 10:28 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks for comparing the Baikal Mak to the Umarex. As the Baikal is rifled, one should use lead BBs or lead plated BBs like those supplied with the pistol. What sort of BBs did you use in testing the Baikal's velocity. What sort do you intend to use in testing its accuracy.

Interesting that the Baikal Mak can be converted to a handgun. During the 1950s and 1960s gang members made single shot pistols out of auto radio antenna tubing.

Where there is a will there is a way.

 
At April 14, 2009 10:31 AM, Blogger CJr said...

Harry aka deadeyedick,

I've not heard of eley .22. I have heard of CCI and Winchester, of course. CCI is supposed to be very good quality but also pricey. I've never shot either. I get cheapo Remington Thunderbolt, Federal Value Pack, and Blazer which is supposed to be made by CCI.

-Chuck

 
At April 14, 2009 10:51 AM, Blogger kevin said...

Chuck,

Don't know about "pente pound pugs".

The one pound pugs I bought at home depot were made by gardner bender and cost $2.49 each. The 5 lb. pugs I bought at the electrical wholesaler say "NEER DUCT SEAL COMPOUND" on the package(website on their packaging is www.egseg.com) and cost $10.99 each ($2.19 per lb.).

kevin

 
At April 14, 2009 10:53 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Both Maks were tested with the same BBs.

TV program heating up. I can't answer many more comments.

B.B.

 
At April 14, 2009 11:03 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Eley make some of the worlds best target rifle ammunition.. Its known as Eley match to us and comes in a black plastic box of 50 rounds.. It costs about £6 aswell. RWS make what I recon is the best .22 ammuntition available for accuracy.. But CCI minimag are my go to round for my ruger.

I'm such an accuracy nut that cheap bult ammo wouldnt do for me, if 2 rounds of 50 were fliers I would send the rest of the ammo I bought back. Same for missfires..

I am a little picky but I think it makes a difference in my shooting to know that I have the best ammo that wont let me down.

On the subject of airpistols being turned into handguns.. There was a big thing about that in the UK.. Brocock aircartrage rifles and pistols were made as a novelty item where the rifle or pistol would have cartrages which were all basically little pump up cases with an airgun pellet in the top.. This ment that the rifles would feed and fire just like a real catridge rifle, same for the pistols which were all revolvers.

Those clever criminals worked out a way to make the .22 versions of these airguns fire .22 rimfire ammunition. This ment that hundreds of these airpistols were bought and converted into firearms which were used in crimes across the UK.. These airguns are now banned unless an FAC is held with that kind of airgun specifically held on there.

So with abit of know how these imitation guns can be changed into firearms. However not of a large caliber. I would emagine that a 9mm would be too powerfull for the lower grade steel used to make these CO2 pistols. Even though 9mm is reguarded as low powered in the pistol world, there is still alot of power in those little rounds.

While I'm on the subject of 9mm being low powered, I cant see the justification for this as this caliber is employed by many countries armed forces as the caliber for its pistol sidearms, not forgetting the H&K MP5 and UZI which I would reguard as two of the worlds best submachineguns.

Reguards,

Harry aka deadeyedick.

 
At April 14, 2009 12:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Harry,

I think lots of people here in the US turn their noses down on the 9mm because we love our .45s :-)

I have a 9mm CZ SP-01 that is the softest shooting pistol that I have ever fired. I love it. For a service pistol, it's extremely accurate. As an added bonus it has magazines that hold 19 rounds:-)

Al in CT

 
At April 14, 2009 12:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B.B.

I don't know about the hundred yard home range problem, but you would think that there are teenagers out there who would love to learn how to shoot from you and pay for the privilege. Maybe the work can be outsourced to Wayne one day.

Chuck, the hole in my two inches of duct seal was not made by one pellet nor by hundreds but by about 80,000 pellets at 20 feet or so. The stuff is good, and I am ordering more. Regarding the LE panels, I think Jane said that they are too stiff to absorb low power which is mostly what I have. I believe the panels were made for indoor handgun shooting.

Herb, regarding statistics of the monster groups, it seems to make more sense to analyze polar variables of r and theta rather than x and y, since the real quantity of interest is r, the radial distance from center, and any irregular dispersion would be easily seen in the theta (angular quantity). The polar variables seem already built in to the clock face terminology of, for example, calling shots in the 8 ring at 10 o'clock. The results of x-y analysis would be harder to visualize.

Rusty Barrel, another consideration for accuracy in your pcp is weight of the gun. The super accuracy of the Talon SS is apparently undercut a bit by its light weight. It seems to me more of a pure hunting rifle. The Marauder should be a steadier platform with the extra weight without being a real burden either.

On the subject of the Navy Seals, I don't think that the distance of 75 feet or nighttime conditions (with the night vision they would have available) is all that remarkable. But shooting a target bobbing on rough seas does sound really hard. Even if the destroyer is stable as I would expect, the lifeboat would be bobbing all over the place. And then there's the matter of a world crisis riding on your performance....

Matt61

 
At April 14, 2009 1:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Matt

RE: Polar coordinates vs X-Y


Don't think so. First unless the POA and POI were one and the same, the polar coordinates would also contain an offset.

Second, since the analysis was being done to measure drop variation, the standard deviation of X and the standard deviation of Y would be good quantities to compare. Assuming the "group" should be circular seems reasonable. Excessive spread on Y would be "easy" to measure. It would take a lot of shots to measure a moderate difference (say 20%). Really think calculated spread based on measured FPS would be a more fruitful method.

(1) Measure FPS of shot string

(2) Shoot 10 shots at a good section of curve.

(3) Measure X error. Assume Y=X to get "overall theoretical error."

(4) Calculate "additional spread" of Y based on measured FPS for string. In other words, decide how much variation in Y would be acceptable based on data from shot string.


ut for example if Y is 20% greater than X, you'd have to shoot a lot of shots to gather the experimental data that demonstrates Y is greater than X.

You'd also have to be prepared to handle the occasional flier. In one 5 shot group you could avoid one. But if you're shooting 30 shots with 5 different pellets, I don't see how fliers could be avoided. If you were measuring X-Y coordinates, you could exclude the wild shots.

Herb

 
At April 14, 2009 1:28 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BB,
I chickened out of the 1077 and the Reminton 597 due to mixed reviews and recieving a faulty one. So yesterday instead I bought a Ruger 10/22 Deluxe Sporter (the english walnut and stainless barrel) and bought my brother a Crosman 1377c. We shot the 1377c, I expected more recoil, something at least like the 1088. Anyhow, I managed a 2/3inch group at 20yards with a cheap Tasco 3-9x40 scope (designed for rifles). I'm off to shoot the 10/22 now.
Shadow express dude

 
At April 14, 2009 1:29 PM, Blogger ajvenom said...

Hey Deadeye, is that the match grade eley ammo that you use? Have you ever tried the the Eley Tenex or wolf Match ammo? Basically, what did you end up for the best choice for each of your .22LR rifles?

Of course listing all your 10/22 upgrades would probably popular here.

 
At April 14, 2009 2:00 PM, Anonymous BG_Farmer said...

Herb & Matt,
It seems like both polar and cartesian systems would have advantages. For groups with velocity/pressure centered about the desired average, a 3D polar representation (think bell shape) would be easy to interpret -- as would a 2D Circle with color intensity indicating dispersion.

For determining the "sweet spot", simply shooting from start to finish of charge and plotting only Y versus charge level would work, but tedious to compile in the absence of electronic help.

The easiest way to implement something like this would be to set up a camera to capture the target image to a computer and record changes (i.e. shots) and their locations. Once you have an ordered list of shot locations, quite a bit of analysis could be run on the data. For example, search through it to find the best compromise of vertical variation and shots, then find the average radial dispersion inside that range.

Given a good quality video capture system and some simple programming, BB could provide us a ton of data in graphic form on each gun simply by shooting it through a charge with each desired pellet/power level.

 
At April 14, 2009 3:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Herb and BG_Farmer,

Since polar and cartesian coordinates are different representations for the same thing, it seems to me that neither is less valuable in terms of information and the polar version is more intuitive to a shooter interpreting the data. Specifically, I don't see how the x-y system avoids the problem of offset since one has the same problem of determining the relationship between point of aim and point of impact. Does one ever know exactly where they are aiming when the trigger goes off? If you measure everything from your point of aim, all the data will be consistent. Comparing x and y to measure shot drop due to velocity is an attractive option. But I think it might be simplistic to assume that decreased velocity will cause the pellet to drop exactly in the y direction. Between the Magnus effect, wind variation, and pellet spiral, this may not be true. Besides the r-theta representation will still allow you to calculate drop versus lateral dispersion. And I don't see how fliers are more detectable in the x-y coordinate system. Any shot with an unusually large r value could be classified as a flier.

BG_Farmer, I think the time order of the shots is valuable. However, it sounds like deviations due to velocity drop should come at the end of a shot string unless valve lock is involved (a slightly different question)in which case it will come at the beginning. So, I don't know if the camera set-up recording the order of every single shot would yield all that much new data.

Matt61

 
At April 14, 2009 3:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shadow Express Dude,

What in the world made you chicken out of the 1077? This is a fantastic rifle both reliable and accurate, even with me mashing the seals with excessive tightening. The $65 investment in this rifle is well worth it.

Matt61

 
At April 14, 2009 4:10 PM, Blogger Brody said...

B.B.,
I figuredout what i want for a plinking hunting gun. Im going to try a daisy 22sg. But now im looking at getting a target pistol to shoot indoors. I want one of the daisys, but i dont know which one. Pyramyd has the 717 for $149, but Airgun Depot has the 747 for $168. Which do i get. Sorry, but i wont be spending $199 on the 747 here at pyramyd, i just think if they can sell it for $168 why cant pyramyd. (tell em i said that, maybe they will go lower) lol. Anyways which one is better. I think you said the 747 is better b/c it has the LW barrel, but i cant remember. Thanks again,
Brody

 
At April 14, 2009 4:19 PM, Blogger CJr said...

Matt61,
How many shots have you experienced with the 1077 on a 12gram CO2 cartridge?

 
At April 14, 2009 4:45 PM, Blogger ajvenom said...

I've seen some used 717 for $75, but the 747 seem to hold their value and harder to find a deal on them.

As for my 1077 it's not bug buster, unless it's a june bug.


As for the Ted Williams (Daisy 880) I took the rifle apart and cleaned, lube and checked all the screws. Then I cleaned the barrel really well with a nyln brush and some sort of JB paste BB always pushes.

Now I got an average of four 5-round groups of 5mm ctc (.197) at 10M. Best one was 4mm ctc (.157).

 
At April 14, 2009 5:09 PM, Blogger CJr said...

Which of these side wheels fit my 8-32X56 30mm tube Centerpoint? All of them?


Leapers Accushot SWAT Side Wheel For Leapers 3-12x44 30mm Mil-Dot Mini Size Scope

Leapers Accushot SWAT Side Wheel For Range Estimation (80 mm)

Leapers Accushot SWAT Side Wheel For Range Estimation (100 mm)

-Chuck

 
At April 14, 2009 5:57 PM, Anonymous BG_Farmer said...

Matt,

Conversion b/t polar and cartesian coordinates is simple, and they each offer unique advantages, especially in terms of presentation of the data, at least in my opinion.

I don't know what could be more valuable than actually having a record of the shots that includes their time and location: There are almost infinite ways the data could be analyzed, or maybe I'm missing something in what you're saying.

For example, we could run an algorithm on the whole "group" which would locate the centroid, then do a more intensive search looking for the most consistent (in Y) string of longest length, i.e., the "sweet spot" and then find its centroid. Comparing the two would tell us how much the POI varies over the course of a fill. With the sweet spot identified, we could calculate the radial dispersion of "good shots" easily, also.

 
At April 14, 2009 6:35 PM, Blogger kevin said...

I have a favor to ask of all "Anonymous" posters.

The blog is generating a lot of comments from new airgunners. Unfortunately many of these new folks have not created a "handle" for themselves and it's getting difficult to differentiate all the Anonymous's.

You only have to "Choose an identity" once and you will be recognized thereafter.

Not only does it make communicating easier, it allows a search by your handle/identity for your comments.

kevin

 
At April 14, 2009 6:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shadow Express Dude,

I agree with Mat61, the crosman 1077 is a great gun. Extremely accurate and the trigger does eventually wear in. Not expensive at all either. Besides, if you do have a problem with the gun, send it back to either Pyramyd or Crosman and they'll take care of you.

Brody,

In addition to a Lothar (King of the Hill People!) barrel, the 747 also has an adjustable trigger. It's a good pistol that I really like a lot. I had a problem with mine at first, but Daisy sent me a shipping label and fixed it up for me. I think that Daisy did have a price hike on both of their 7x7 models though. I got mine over a year ago close to $150. Inflation sucks.

Al in CT

 
At April 14, 2009 7:27 PM, Anonymous FrankB said...

Kevin,I'm ashamed to say this anonomous had no Idea it would be easy...FrankB

 
At April 14, 2009 8:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Chuck,

That's easy. I shoot 5 clips of 12 or 60 shots. However, this must be evaluated in terms of my conditions. I shoot them mostly rapid fire; I go through all 60 in maybe 3 minutes and the barrel is very cold to the touch afterwards. At 20 feet, I notice no deviation in accuracy whatsoever--at least for instinct shooting. It would be hard to extrapolate this for someone shooting at a longer range for real accuracy. I think in a post, B.B. mentioned good groups out to 30 yards with a scope and sufficient time between shots. But I don't know how many such shots he got per powerlet.

On the subject of the 747, yes, it is the cheap man's way to enjoy a Lothar Walther barrel.

BG_Farmer, you're right. Those are useful things to do. The only obstacles are identifying individual shots if your group is tight and setting up the equipment for all this. However, it could be a way to extract as much info as possible from data that is so painstakingly gathered.

Matt61

 
At April 14, 2009 8:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Re the Navy SEALs and the now deceased pirates:

These guys not only parachuted into the sea to get to the destroyer, they set up shots from one moving platform to another (even more) moving platform. Then, when given a spur of the moment command--can you imagine the waiting while on sight?-- they simultaneously killed two targets with heads only showing, AND one target hit through a window standing close to the hostage.

This is nerves and marksmanship of another order of reality.

Killing is never a matter for humor or casual comment, but I'm damned glad these guys are on our side.

And note also that the much-hated Pres. Obama--who is routinely reviled on gun forums--did not hesitate to order the gunners to do their work, if they saw the chance.

All in all, a remarkable set of performances, which have highlighted the skills of our military men.

 
At April 14, 2009 8:54 PM, Anonymous BG_Farmer said...

Matt,
I agree about the shots being close. I think what they do in Olympic 10M is always shoot at a clean target (scrolling?). In that case, it seems as much for the benefit of the shooter, because the positioning device is sonic, which would also work by the way, but seems more complicated to me:).

It wouldn't be a huge investment in equipment, but it wouldn't be much fun, either:). Maybe I can set one up and trade it to Wayne for a cabinet full of guns and a few raised bed kits:).

 
At April 14, 2009 9:11 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can see how the .45 would be a preferred choice.. I had always wanted a Colt 1911 .45.. There just something about that pistol that I love.

Aj, my Ruger really loves the CCI minimag, its powerfull eneugh to cycle reliably, and is fairly accurate aswell.. 1 hole at 50 yards isnt out of the question if I'm shooting well. My CZ seems to like the RWS and CCI's where as my target rifle is fed only on Eley match. I have tried tenex, tenex ultimate and various other types of match ammuntition. Ive fired wolf from my CZ.. It was pretty good, however i still rate RWS R50 and R100 as some of the best for most target rifles.

Also to AJ, my ruger upgrades.

Mostly internal, I have the titanium 0.001 high tolerance parts to replace the extractor claw, the ejector and the firing pin aswell as a larger cocking handle and a double length recoil spring. This effectivly removes the feed and extraction problems that rugers tend to have. I also have the rubber recoil pin which makes the action quieter and reduces wear from firing. The rifle came with the heavy target barrel as standard, but I used a cheap £10 bedding kit which really seemed to help accuracy. I also have the auto bolt release modification, some sort of custom metal trigger that I cannot find the make of and the extended mag release.

I'm planning on replacing the standard laminated stock, barrel and reciever with custom made parts. Finally I will be getting a trigger unit from KIDD or Voltzquargen when money permitts.

Reguards,

Harry aka deadeyedick.

 
At April 14, 2009 10:51 PM, Blogger kevin said...

Frank B.,

No apologies necessary. I appreciate your comments and you're one of the people that I search for comments from.

I just want to be able to find your relevant comments easier.

Thanks.

kevin

 
At April 15, 2009 12:16 AM, Blogger Thorin said...

Baikal Mak Conversion:
The Baikal is not a BB pistol that can be converted into a firearm. It's a firearm that cas been converted into a BB pistol. Steel parts from the 9mm production line, diferent barrel diameter obviously, and the slide milled out to make room for the C02 valve, which is part of the mag. Reaming out the barrel to a centerfire diameter would work, but modifying the slide would be much more involved, I expect an illegal firearm is easier and possibly cheaper to obtain.

Brocock system:
It was designed to circumvent the ban for CO2 cartridge guns in effect at the time in the UK.

George

 
At April 15, 2009 12:40 AM, Anonymous Dr. G. said...

Matt61,

80,000 pellets...you must have learned something by now:)

How many days/week do you shoot, and about how many shots per session? I was under the (mis?)impression that you have been shooting for a couple years, and so I am trying to picture you shooting 80,000 shots and I am getting tired trying to do this.

I shoot about 1-3 evenings per week in my 10 meter basement range, about 50-150 pellets per session (or 200 if I am really excited about a new gun for awhile), but it sounds like you must be shooting even more. I find that the physical effort of cocking the 54, the JW80, or the P1 is both limiting and relaxing in a very complimentary way.

I am curious if you found a really cheap .177 pellet or if you have actually spent about $1500 on pellets whilst sitting in that box of yours?

What 5-shot groups are you getting at 20 feet using your most accurate air rifle?

On the topic of bb pistols, I bought 5 of the top rated (per BB and per reviews from all the usual spots) CO2 pistols a couple months back, as they are very inexpensive when compared to the pellet guns that I usually shoot. I figured that there must be a high play value quotient, and I was curious what all the fuss was about.

I am not prepared at this time to write a review, but I have been so impressed with the Daisy powerline 5170 (about $45)...(accuracy, rails for scope, ergonomics of loading the CO2 and the bbs, trigger, fps, # shots per CO2) compared to the other pistols, that I just had to mention it.
If there is enough interest then I will review all of the pistols (including the one I gave away because a friend liked it as much as I didn't).

- Dr. G.

 
At April 15, 2009 1:12 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=127023090

 
At April 15, 2009 1:16 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

George,

The Makarov barrel, which is not a controlled item, can be drifted out of the frame and replaced with a firearm barrel easily. The slide is also easily replaceable.

The frame is the only serialized part, and the BB gun frame can be converted back to 9mm (I believe) with parts that are all available without an FFL.

That is the problem.

B.B.

 
At April 15, 2009 1:48 AM, Blogger Thorin said...

B.B.

I didn't think you could get a barrel and slide easier than the actual gun.
Here (Greece) all major firearm components are regulated as strictly.
Still, wouldn't it be easier to get a complete illegal firearm if so inclined? I am shooting ISSF pistol events, and to get a legal firearm here I have to be able to prove that I am an active athlete, total number I can own is very limited, and firearms license must be validated frequently by the police.
Criminals still shoot people...

 
At April 15, 2009 2:29 AM, Blogger B.B. Pelletier said...

Thorin,

In the U.S. gun parts are not controlled except for the frame that is serial-numbered. There is a huge market for Makarov parts right now. Guys are converting their guns to shoot .380 ACP (9X17mm) and so the parts are very available.

I have bought parts for my 9X18mm Mak and have seen instructions on the internet on barrel changes and gunsmithing. There are also videos that explain how to replace parts.

All of this makes it more possible to convert the BB pistol--if it is possible, which I am not 100 percent sure about.

B.B.

 
At April 15, 2009 9:33 AM, Blogger kevin said...

Chuck,

Re: Which sidewheel fits your centerpoint scope

I don't have the answer but strongly encourage you to talk to tech support at Pyramyd Air.

I bought the smaller sidewheel (80mm?) for a leapers 3-12x44 full size swat scope and it wouldn't fit. The 100mm fit like a glove. Now it looks like Pyramyd Air has a 3rd sidewheel just for the leapers 3-12x44 MINI swat scope? The first sidewheel I purchased was very close to fitting but just small enough that it would fit over the AO knob. Good luck.

kevin

 
At April 15, 2009 9:34 AM, Blogger kevin said...

Chuck,

Meant to say that is was just small enough that it would NOT fit over the AO knob. Sorry.

kevin

 
At April 15, 2009 7:13 PM, Anonymous Vince said...

Anonymous, re the Seals and the president's orders... without going into any specifics with regards to the president's stand on gun control, remember that most political proponents of gun control only object to ordinary citizens owning and using firearms. They do not object to the police or the armed services having them available.

And that precisely is what raises perhaps the biggest concern... that gun control weakens the citizen in comparison to the agents of government. This is good when the citizen is a criminal, but highly questionable when he is not. And it just so happens that the vast, vast majority of citizens are not.

 

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