Haenel model V repeater

This article is from the July 1997 issue of The Airgun Letter. You’ll probably never see a gun like this, so I thought I’d share a glimpse at this rare German piece.

This report is a bit different than our regular fare. That’s because our subject rifle is a bit different. Not only is it an example of a scarce and highly collectible spring gun in beautiful condition (with noted exceptions)–it’s also one of the oddest airguns we’ve encountered because of some strange customization work.

Usually, we plunge in and tell you the ballistics and accuracy and so on. That isn’t going to happen this time because the rifle is incomplete, making loading a real chore. Velocity of this .22 was in the low 400s with medium pellets, which means she could stand a look inside. Either that or the strange automatic tap built under the drum magazine leaks air. It doesn’t matter, though, because this one is so strange you aren’t likely to take it to a field target match, anyway.


18-rd drum mag

The 18-shot drum magazine is the rifle’s most unusual feature–from the factory, anyway. It’s a gravity-feed mechanism that rotates by means of a pawl attached to the underlever. When the rifle is cocked, the pawl advances the next pellet to drop straight down into a rotating tap that’s now vertical. Returning the underlever realigns the tap with the barrel and transfer port; and the pawl is returned to catch the next ratchet. Our rifle is missing the pawl and the spring that keeps it bearing on the rotating magazine.

The magazine is loaded through an elongated slot shown in the two o’clock position in the above left photo. It’s simple to drop a pellet nose-first into this slot. Unfortunately, with the pawl missing, it’s tough to advance the magazine manually, so loading our test gun was a trial! Also, the pellets must be small enough to drop freely into the tap below when it aligns itself. This was the most difficult part of testing the gun.

The Haenel logo is an arrow with the name stylistically printed inside in block letters. Seen on the end cap of this rifle, it gives a real sense of pride in manufacturing. The rifle has nearly 100% of its original blue!



Above the forearm are the words Haenel Mod. V Rep. DRP. Just forward of the magazine is the caliber: CAL. 5.5 m/m (.22)*. The asterisk means this is a rifle, not a smoothbore. Note the lack of a rear sight. These are difficult to use with the repeating drum sticking so high above the top of the barrel. Still, I believe the rifle always came with one.

The front sight is a graceful towering bead. It has to be high for the shooter to see it over that magazine. The swept-back look is illusionary, caused by the leading edge of the sight. In back, the post is straight.



This is where things start to get strange! Someone chopped into the wrist to insert a peep sight.

A Lyman peep sight on a German air rifle? Will wonders never cease? This is where the strangeness starts with this rifle. Not that it’s a bad idea. A pity the Germans didn’t think of it first, though, so those nasty (and crude) inlet cuts didn’t have to be made on such a fine and rare rifle. Sort of like putting a coat of Varathane on the Mona Lisa. Ah–but that’s just where it begins!



Not exactly an elegant job on the pistol grip!

Note the different color wood that has been frenched into the pistol grip. The original grip was smooth and rounded. Whoever did the work did such a fine job on the joint and nonstandard checkering, that it seems strange to have selected such a mismatch on the color! Almost as though they wanted it to stand out. The rifle actually looks more complete this way, but very odd at the same time.

The underside view of the grip is even more revealing–and astounding! Apparently, the person who made such a tight joint was unable to wipe off all the wood putty after he finished! Either that or the piece fell off at some point and a person of my own skill level put it back on.

Who goes to the trouble of checkering a grip like this–and then leaves a dowel so visible? A steel grip cap would have hidden this completely. Maybe, this was a gun built by a committee.


The checkering was extended to the forearm’s belly.

The custom checkering wraps completely around the fore end. Although it’s not a masterpiece, it does show some skill, as those surfaces are hard to work around. The curved borders are no picnic, either! I would be proud to have this person’s checkering on one of my airguns.


The latch for the cocking lever.

The cocking lever latch is an easy-to-release button on front of the lever. The rifle is very smooth to cock, though not as light as the lower velocity would indicate. Also, a hiss of air rushing into the tap makes me believe that the insides are airtight, as well. That makes the lower velocity a real mystery.


It appears to be retreaded.

The best was saved for last. After all the fine custom improvements we’ve seen, the rifle was sent to Goodyear, where someone retreaded the butt.

Actually, we don’t know if this is a genuine Goodyear custom shop part or some Japanese radial aftermarket item. It does look like it will give miles of safe shooting, though.


A Rekord…not!

No Rekord, this! The trigger is a reminder that air rifles haven’t always been graced with perfect releases. There was a time when 4 lbs. was considered normal. The sear engagement is adjusted by the single screw passing through the front of the triggerguard.

Notice, also, that the triggerguard is a machined piece of steel–not a casting or a formed piece of plate. In the days of this rifle, this was the standard of excellence.

Accuracy testing with this rifle was as frustrating as chronographing it. It never got better than two inches for five shots at 10 meters. German barrels of that day were certainly capable of far better accuracy; so, again, we must suspect the kaput magazine as the culprit.

Testing and examining this rare rifle was a special treat for us. Thanks to owner Marv Freund for the opportunity.

34 Responses to “Haenel model V repeater”

  • Mr B. Says:

    Goodmorning B.B.,

    Looks like someone was setting this up for a Quigley Down Under shot, but didn't have an adjustable Vernier Sight on hand.. To bad the builder didn't line up the screws in his custom recoil pad/butt plate. That would have given the piece a more finished look.

    Mr B.

    word verification is andedia which sounds like sopmething from a Robin Cook novel.

  • Vince Says:

    I think the designer must have had images of the old Lewis machine gun dancing in his head. And gravity feed for pellets! That's pretty good.

    At least Wayne's Tell air rifle isn't the only vintage German that's not shooting that well. But on something like this accuracy has to take a back seat to the mere novelty of having this contraption function at all. It's a shame about the missing piece, though, I'm surprised that no one has successfully attempted to remanufacture the AWOL pawl.

    BTW, the caption for the 2nd picture reads "118-rd drum mag". Sounds like that's in error – and if the folks in Trenton, NJ see that they might panic and add this thing to their list of assault rifles…

  • Anonymous Says:

    Vince,

    Thanks for the heads up on the typo in the caption. I corrected it.

    Edith

  • derrick38 Says:

    Maybe the piston seal is on it's last legs. What a cool design. Now I need a tang sight on an airgun. Wait, now I need an airgun I can put a tang sight on… That sounds better! Never miss an opportunity to get another airgun.

    Derrick

  • Fused Says:

    Vince/Wayne,
    Speaking of old German air rifles, what about an update on Wayne's RWS? Does it shoot any stronger or more accurately than the Tell?

  • Anonymous Says:

    B.B.

    The drum is strange but cool. It reminds me of the ultimate aftermarket modification for the Ruger 10/22 for about $500 from Cabelas. You put two 10/22s together with a large drum magazine and a crank and you have a Gatling gun that shoots four times with each turn of the crank. And, they say that it is considered a semiauto and not subject to the regulations of machine guns.

    All, Mike Melick returned the IZH 61 and it shoots as well as ever. I drilled five shots into one hole at 20 feet just like old times. The problem?…There didn't appear to be any. Mike just said that the rifle looked like it needed lubrication and says that all I need to do to maintain it is oil the pivot of the cocking arm and grease the cocking slot once in awhile. He also put in a new spring guide because he says that the old one was very loose. Could that have contributed to the problem? Anyway, he's only charging me postage for the whole thing. If anyone needs a tune, I would strongly recommend Mike.

    I am amazed that the gun could shoot so badly just because of inadequate lubrication. So there is such a thing as too little lube. And the IZH 61 has reestablished itself as the AK 47 of airguns not only for shooting flawlessly for almost all of 60,000 rounds but doing a lot of that with inadequate lubricant.

    Naturally, I'm delighted to have it back. But while it was gone, I noticed a phenomenon like when you spend extra time with people whom you normally see in a group setting. You find out that there was much more there than you had supposed. And so it is with the rest of my collection. I found out how accurate the B30 is and how easy the single shot mode is once you get used to it. I got to fire the 1077 for accuracy in addition to snap shooting, and I got my pistol shooting back into gear. One of my worries about collecting more guns is that I will lose time with what I already have….I guess if that is the extent of my problems, I'm in good shape.

    Matt61

  • Anonymous Says:

    Joe B.,

    I'm glad to hear that kids can shoot a Model 29 SW. I always thought that was a beautiful gun. Hm, .44 specials would seem to be a bit of false advertising. I could have sworn Dirty Harry said .44 magnum. I can't see how a police department would even allow that with the over-penetration.

    Fred, the drive-in movie date was a little before my time, but sounds like I missed out. It sounds like it's time to turn things over to Gene Hackman in the Unforgiven who says: "English Bob (Richard Harris) went looking for a fella' by the name of Two Gun Corcoran. Now they didn't call him that because he wore two guns."

    Fused, whether you hear the shot or not out in the hunting field, the shock waves are still rattling your inner ear and doing what shots do any place else. I wonder if there's away to have earmuffs handy. You can easily hear conversations, and as long as you're not stalking dangerous wild game like lions or cape buffalo, there doesn't seem to be a problem. I noticed that the older guys were teaching my blackpowder workshop were all using loud, foghorn voices.

    Matt

  • BG_Farmer Says:

    BB,
    This one is classic, personalized to an individual's taste. I wonder if the intent with the darker pistol grip extension wasn't "ebony endcap" from someone who hadn't seen one up close. There is a California style to the extension, although he skipped the flare. The Lyman sight puts the former owner into the serious shooter class, even if his woodworking is a little wild!

    Matt,
    Those are my friends you're talking about, but its OK, they can't hear you:).

  • Anonymous Says:

    well, this is yet another off-topic question from good ol' John W.

    this has been happening for a little while now, and only now am i gonna question about it. it has to do with my Beeman Sportsman SS1000-S gun with the .22 caliber barrel on it. i think it happens with the .177 barrel too.

    i have 3 pellets that i live on for this gun. Predator Polymag for hunting (more accurate than the Crow Magnum.), Beeman Kodiak for hard targets and penetration, and JSB Diabolo Exact as the jack of all trades. this question has to do with the JSB Exacts and Beeman Kodiaks.

    i've noticed something wierd with these 2 pellets. they have identical accuracy, but this has to do with spring sound. when i shoot the JSB Exact pellets, (which are a little more than 3/4th the weight of the Kodiak, and i generally use it more often since it keeps the same POI as the Predator) they give a big, springy DOING….. that sounds like a Daisy Red Ryder on steroids. it has a bit meatier of a sound than a Daisy, but same concept. it lingers for over a second, and drives me nuts. i know this is somewhat common in springers, but i've heard it's more associated with break-in. but i've shot this thing at least 1500 pellets by now. and it doesn't make sense for what i'm about to say next.

    the Kodiaks, however, make no such noise. when i shoot Kodiaks, it comes out as a loud BANG (louder than the Exacts), almost like a crack, and the pellets thunder onto the target. i like the feeling of shooting the Kodiaks more because the "twang" is gone, but i don't shoot em as much because they're as much as 1 1/2 mil-dots (at 16 power at 20 yards) lower in point of impact. which is annoying when you switch to Predators for killing a starling that comes along. but i dread that twang, because it is so annoying.

    which is more possible? does my spring need lubricant or maybe a tuning (i'd like an excuse for a tuning), or is my rifle STILL breaking in even after 1500 shots?

  • Randy-in-VA Says:

    BB – Thanks for telling me in Roanoke to wait for the "new Benjamin PCP". I finally got a chance to shoot my Marauder today, and it is one sweet rifle (especially compared to the low-end rifles that I have been shooting).

    I'm using CO2 in it and I was going to take notes and pictures for a report, but I decided to just shoot. I should have a chance to take it outdoors this weekend, so I'll write more next week.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    John W.,

    You are hearing the results from piston bounceback. I usually do not shoot pellets that produce such sounds, because of what is happening inside the gun. Bounceback will destroy a mainspring, but it isn't as common as many people think. You can hear it, however, which is what you are doing.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Randy,

    Please, please, please write your impressions of the Marauder on CO2! We have a number of readers who are only interested in using CO2 and I cannot accomodate them.

    B.B.

  • Randy-in-VA Says:

    BB – I'll try to write a detailed report next week – shots per fill, fills per cylinder, using 88- and 12-gram CO2 cartridges, and what ever else pops ino my head. I don't have a Chrony, so I'll have to limit pellet discussion to how well they group. Right now, I'm just having a blast shooting it.

  • Anonymous Says:

    B.B.,

    ok…. well dang. Exacts were tied with the most accurate pellet. but i hear you. i won't be using JSB Exacts anymore. guess i'll have to deal with that mil and a half of compensation for Polymag pellets. thanks for the quick answer.

    John W.

  • Dane W Says:

    Don't worry JohnW, being new to the adult air gun community, I'll be joining you in alot of off topic questions I'm sure :)

    Vince, Kevin.. Thanks for the great info! (My first post is under another topic)

    I have been reading alot of articles on this blog and have watched the video on the artillery hold. Surprisingly, this is how I have always held an air rifle for some reason. I believe mainly because in my younger years I found that a relaxed hold of the BB/pellet guns seemed to give me a more accurate shot. I thought this was mainly because I would hold the gun more steady by letting it rest in my hand as opposed to holding it tightly. Guess this is why I had little trouble zeroing this Storm in with open sights then the scope (took me about 5-10 minutes for each one). I shot maybe 100+ rounds before deciding to mount the scope so should be good and settled in. The only thing I havent tried is different pellets. I just bought a tin of Crosman pointed lead pellets and so far I havent noticed any great variance in accuracy (although I havent actually sat down and tried to see how tight of a group I can get). I will get a variety of ammo and do some testing to see which works best. I saw a post in here somewhere that mentioned several different pellets and the overall quality, will give some of them a try.

    As far as blackpowder vs air in power vs quiet, I was mainly talking about small caliber. In most cases, I can be just as effective with my Storm as I can my .22 rimfire and its much more quiet as long as it stays subsonic. If I need a bore bigger than a .22, it won't be with air :) Although I must say I'd love to shoot one of the .50 cal air guns I've read about just to see what it's like!

    Concerning the adjustable trigger.. are all the 'adjustable' triggers only 1st stage? I guess the 'hair' triggers I am used to with my conventional firearms seems to be hard to come by in air? The Storm feels like I am pulling the trigger 2 inches before it fires! Are there triggers for air guns that have maybe a 1-2 lb pull single stage… or even less? ;)

    Vince.. Why do you say I would not enjoy shooting the Russian MP513?

    Are there common problems with the breech seal on the RWS 34/34P?

    Let's say the hold sensitivity isnt a concern, any other decent, fair priced .22 springers with open sights(fair being $300ish max)? Not really a big fan of pumping a gun 200 times to refill or purchasing CO2.

    Dane

  • Anonymous Says:

    hmm… Dane… i think i can help you on the last part of your post.

    as far as triggers, most airguns that i've seen have 2-stage triggers. that's not gonna change anytime soon, as far as i know. but they are easy to get used to. and for that Hammerli Storm, the trigger on that gun is especially long and creepy anyway. that's the one downfall to the Storm. the trigger is really not that great. and, there are SOME, and i think there used to be more, airguns with single-stage triggers, but they're hard to come by. i hear the Beeman C-1 had the king of single-stage triggers, (thanks B.B.!) and the BAM B-26 (copy of the Beeman R9/HW95) has a single stage trigger as well. as far as triggers with a single-stage pull of about a half-pound… YES, there are. i believe the Rekord unit on Beeman R-series and all Weihrauch guns (if i'm correct) can be adjusted to about a half pound on the first stage or less. i'm not sure the manual supports setting it that low, but of what i've heard, it can be done. if not on those guns, maybe the TX-200's trigger, which is virtually the same trigger, but more adjustable.

    as far as a "decent" springer with open sights with 300'ish max price, hmm…. there are quite a few if you look hard enough, but having open sights kinda narrows the field a bit. many guns of that price range (Gamo guns are the first to come to mind for me) are built for scopes. i'll present some options of what i can find on the site. the Gamo Whisper series and Gamo CF-X series (CF-X and CF-X Royal) come to mind. the Hammerli Razor is a thought. it does not have the same trigger as your Storm. it's a bit nicer in the fact that it's adjustable for pull weight and a couple of other things that i've not explored yet. (it's the same trigger that's on my Beeman SS1000-S that i mentioned earlier. pretty decent unit. nicely adjustable, not too stiff once adjusted, and very predictable.) the Razor would be on the top of my list to try out. just because they fall into the price range, and because i'm for some reason attached to magnums, the Benjamin Super Streak is in the price range. B.B. pelletier showed some pretty impressive results in accuracy, even if power fell a bit short of claims. but it would probably not be too high on the list since that ten-pounder is nearly impossible to shoot off-hand. the Walther Talon Magnum JUST barely fits into the price range with the gas spring. i've heard outstanding things about that rifle from a friend. the trigger on the Walthers is not that great, and for the Benji, a GRT-III trigger is pretty much a must. (yes it can be installed.) i could go on for pages and pages talking about what i've heard about these airguns, but this is kind of a sample of what i've seen to be good.

    well dang, with how much i ramble, i might as well be writing guest blogs LOL. maybe something to consider… well, this is my 2 cents into your question, Dane…. W. (>.>) i could talk on for pages but i won't, because it might come to the point of spam. so, good night my good sir. (actually it's midnight for me so…. good morning?)

    John W.

  • StiCkY Says:

    Hey bb,
    Sorry for the off topic question, but im looking for a long range air rifle STRICTLY for long range target shooting,no hunting(50-100yrds). Im hoping to find an air rifle capable of 1/2" to 2" 3 shot groupings at those variable ranges granted at further (75+yrds) that i do my part on my calculations, wind adj, drop etc.. so pretty much just need the rifle CAPABLE of such groupings at that distance so i can do my part. I was looking at possibly the benjamin super streak (or any other reccomendations on any rifle in the price range, pcp/springer does not matter) because of my long distances I need higher velocity right? And if the Benji, would .177 be more accurate at my desired distances than .22 (if given PERFECT shooting conditions). All in all i guess my question is if the benji (in what caliber?) would suit my needs, or any other rifle in that price range $400 or under? Thank you so much, I learn a great deal off of your blogs and have introduced many new airgunners to pyramydair and your blog, keep up the GREAT work!

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    StiCkY,

    With your requirements I would look seriously at the Benjamin Discovery. Stay with .22, not .177. The effects of wind on a .177 make it range-limited for the most part. You need reliable tracking over speed, and .22 gives you that.

    B.B.

  • Dane W Says:

    John W.

    Thanks!

    After researching and comparing different models and rethinking the whole scope vs open sights I've decided on what I am looking for in a .22 air rifle and what I've found so far in researching that appeals to me.

    Wants:

    1. Ambidextrous springer
    2. $300ish price range
    3. MANUAL safety (auto's are annoying!)
    4. Small game hunting
    5. Gas piston (not 'needed' but would be nice)
    6. Accuracy at 75 yds (considering I do my part 100%).
    7. Upgradeable trigger to GRT-III if needed.

    The models I've researched and interested in:

    1. RWS 34 & 34P
    2. Crosman NPSS (debatable due to hold sensitivity mentioned in BB's review)
    3. Walther Falcon
    4. Walther Talon
    5. Benji Super Streak

    Right now the Benji seems to have more of what I'm looking for. Just concerned about the weight, length, 50lb cocking effort I've read about?

    Any other suggestions from anyone? I've read and researched until my head hurts! So many rifles….

    Thanks!

    Dane W

  • StiCkY Says:

    B.B.

    May i ask why you chose a PCP rifle instead of a high power springer? The reason i ask is, if the projectile is shot at the same speed, say 1040 fps from a springer, and the same 1040 fps from a PCP rifle, what makes a PCP superior at long distance shooting being that its traveling the same speed than a springer? I realize that the lack of recoil from a PCP helps maintain accuracy, but im wondering will the discovery be able to hold respectable groups at 50+ yards? Im looking for a gun that i can REALLY push my long distance shootin. Seeing a video recently of a man shootin bottles with an AA s410 at 200m amazed me, and i realize it was no where near a stock gun, but im looking for something along the lines of being able to do that up to 100yrds, maybe more! Also what Should one look for in deciding a long range rifle, barrel, fps etc. Thank you again for your response.

  • StiCkY Says:

    Also b.b.

    Im curious as to which caliber carries a flatter trajectory also .177, or.22 at longer range. I know the .22 can stand more wind and carries more energy down range, but shouldnt the laws of gravity put the .177 ahead of the .22 as far as long range accuracy (say indoor range, no wind.) Take the .17 HMR round, compare the trajectory to that of a .22 magnum, .22 has more energy at distance, but the .17hmr can drastically outshoot it past 200yrds, even tho its lighter, but has a faster fps. So would the same rule apply to your long range pellets, or is the .177 just TOO light for that range?

  • Dane W Says:

    StiCkY,

    There are 2 decent posts (maybe more) that discuss the .177 vs .22 that should help with this question:

    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2009/05/blast-from-past-balderdash-march-1994.html

    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/12/long-range-shooting-with-airguns.html

    (you'll have to copy/paste the links into browser)

    If I understand PCP vs springers in accuracy, it's mainly the lack of recoil & ability of the shooter as to springer being less accurate. As kevin posted, and I quote.. "You're correct that pcp's, in general, are more accurate than springers/piston guns primarily because of the lack of recoil. How much more accurate than a springer relates to the distances you're talking about and the ability of the shooter that is shooting the spring gun for comparison. Up to 50 yards some seasoned shooters can shoot a spring gun and a pcp with the same accuracy but he knows how to hold his springer, knows pellet trajectory and has mastered the artillery hold."

    I am by no means an expert, just trying to help based on my own personal research. I leave the expert stuff to BB and the other seasoned veteran airgunners here. :)

    Hope this helps!

    Dane W

  • Anonymous Says:

    Dane,

    hmm… well, if i were you, Dane, i would be looking probably at the same rifles you're looking at. and since you say ambidextrous, i'll have to assume you're left-handed. (LOL JUST LIKE ME XD) so i guess we kinda think the same way on airguns. well, that gives me an easier job, (which i guess is to give you any ideas that you miss.) and i pretty much agree on what you've found so far. and i've heard the cocking effort on the S.S. is about 40 pounds depending on stature. if you're a bit smaller, cocking effort may seem like more since you can't grab the end of the barrel for more leverage. if you're Arnold Shwartzeneggar, and can reach the end of that barrel easily, it should seem more like a Beeman R1 (hard effort, but can be tolerated.). i am not that big, and may have trouble with a magnum. me, i would probably go with the NPSS, either that, or a Beeman Heavy Target rifle. (i like Beemans. they just fit me like a glove.) doesn't have a gas spring, but is powerful, pretty, and has a good scope to go with it. and is relatively cheap. (not quite 300'ish.) as far as 75 yard accuracy, hmm….. i dunno about the Beeman. i'll betya the NPSS might have that kind of accuracy, so i might go with the NPSS unless something changes my mind.

    STiCkY,

    i think i'm gonna try to answer the second part of your question, about which PCP would be the best for you. yes, the Discovery can hold "decent" groups past 50 yards, but if you want something phenomenal, i would think of 2 options. one would be the Benjamin Marauder, as it's more of a traditional rifle and may fit more shooters suitably, and then the Air Force hunting guns. (don't even try the Edge. you'd be wasting your time at that range most likely) such as the Talon, Talon SS, and Condor. i would probably go with the Condor. they actually have a match grade barrel made by Lothar Walther. i would say use JSB Diabolo Exacts (which as far as i know, are generally the most accurate CTC once you adjust the power (for velocity) to suit its weight.) then, i'd say plink away. if you really know what you're doing, that gun (and the Marauder with its most appropriate pellet) should give you what you need. but it won't be like 3/8 inch CTC like at 20 yards. just expect that right now. hope this helps you StiCkY,

    John W.

  • StiCkY Says:

    Dane.

    Thanks for the links! Also, I do understand that a .22 may be more accurate at long range due to more resistance to wind than a .177, but wont the .22 also have MUCH more drop at long distances (which means harder calculations to the shooter figuring for more drop) than a .177? I just cant stop figuring in my head that a projectile going faster, and lighter than another, is going to go further and with less drop than the heavy one. Say you use a HEAVY .177 pellet at longer range, it will still have the higher velocity than most .22 in the same rifle and because of that may have even MORE ft/lb energy than a .22 at the same distance due to the weight-fps ratio, while keeping a flatter trajectory due to it still being lighter than a .22 (please correct me on anything if im wrong)

    John W.

    Thank you also for your information. Is there any drastic accuracy differences between the marauder (with choice pellets of course) and the discovery at longer distances? And ya lol, I realize that im not going to get show stopping groups 100+ yrds with anything that cost less than $1000 with the exception of the Air Force rifles but those are still outta my price range :(. I really like the looks of the marauder better, but as you can probably tell, i want nothing but performance, ive been shooting firearms and air rifles for over 14 years *consistantly shooting i might add*(growing up with the classics, my 392, daisy 880 and more as i got older) and always felt some what *restricted* to 50 yrds with air rifles, but im determined to find that perfect mildly priced gun for my 50+ yrd shots being that I cant afford absolutely no more than $500. Also when you said the discovery can hold "decent" groups past 50yrds, what do you think those groups would be if you could guess a 50yrd 75 and 100yrd, being that i did my part and was STRICTLY rifle accuracy?

    Thank you everyone again, and sorry for being a pain, but i think we can all agree that in this day and age when it comes to dropping $500 on anything, you must REALLY make sure your getting as much as possible for your money, so thank you very much for your help.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    StiCkY,

    Yes, a faster-moving .177 does drop less than a .22 But it also moves sideways more readily.

    Bullet drop is no problem at all, once you learn how to compensate for it. But sideways movement is the hardest thing to deal with, because you always have to guess how far it's going to move. Give me a heavy slow-moving bullet any day.

    Mind you I'm talking about pellets here–not centerfire cartridges. However, a centerfire cartridge does behave the same as a pellet–only at much greater distances.

    I think new shooters overlay what they know about centerfires onto what they think pellets should do and they try to equalize them, when pellets are performing much differently in rerality.

    What I mean is apply your long-range thoughts to a 40-grain .22-caliber bullet at 1,000 yards and everything you say will break down. A light little bullet like that cannot hope to be accurate at that range. For that distance shooters tend to favor long .30-caliber bullets with huge ballistic coefficients. The short, light .22s fall off around 300 yards or so. But a 500-grain bullet from a .45-70 will still be accurate at 1,000 yards even though it falls a tremendous amount.

    As for PCP versus springer accuracy, there is no comparison. It takes a huge amount of skill to shoot a springer accurately, while a PCP is more like shooting a centerfire rifle. I can shoot half-inch five-shot 50-yard groups with a .22 Discovery, but I don't even think my Whiscombe can do as well at 50 yards.

    And let's not shoot at 1040 f.p.s. if you want accuracy at long distance. Let's keep the velocity under 950 f.p.s. At the higher velocity you are into the transsonic region and your pellet will suffer from flutter.

    B.B.

  • Dane W Says:

    Thanks again John W

    I only shoot a gun left handed, everything else right handed.. strange..

    I've narrowed my choices to the Benji SS and the NPSS. I am still leaning towards the S.S. due to higher velocity (means I can use a much heavier pellet for greater accuracy without dropping too low in velocity?). I am not an Arnold by any means.. 5-9 160 lbs, but it will be used for hunting, not constantly plinking.

    Only one other issue now I've thought of between the 2 mentioned.. The reasoning behind want of a gas piston, is the gun will be used for hunting, which means I will keep it cocked and ready until needed while roaming the countryside. I am concerned about damaging/weakening the spring with keeping it cocked for longer periods of time between shots. What is considered an 'appropriate' time frame for keeping a spring cocked without risking damage in such situations?

    Dane

  • Anonymous Says:

    Dane,

    i understand what you're saying with being both-handed. i shoot a gun, write, and a couple other things with my left hand, then i play golf, play guitar, and other stuff with my right hand. so i understand. but who cares what we have in common.

    when it comes to cocking times, i've heard people who de-cock their gun after 2 minutes, and people who leave their springs cocked for multiple hours. i would probably say 10 minutes maximum. one thing about the Super Streak is unlike many Chinese-made guns, this one actually has an anti-beartrap mechanism. i believe it can be removed to allow it to be de-cocked, which would certainly be a plus. (although you'd really have to be focused… that's one meaty spring.) so probably what i'd do to my Super Streak is 1). replace the trigger to a GRT-III, (i've heard this is a must with the trigger pull well over 5 pounds (like in the 7-8 pound range 0_o) so the GRT-III is probably the most necessary.) and then remove the anti-beartrap mechanism. should make it one good hunting machine.

    John W.

  • Anonymous Says:

    StiCkY,

    you're very welcome for the help. and i understand you completely. as B.B. said in the Marauder review, the Maudy has the same accuracy as the Disco, but it is much more consistant in accuracy than the Disco. the Discovery has many groups that match up to the marauder, and many that are a bit better, but there are just as many that are worse. the Marauder is far more of a consistant shooter than the Discovery.

    and i just remembered something. the Evanix AR-6 and Renegade are also very good rifles for long-range shooting. maybe not quite as good as say the S-410, but they have far more hunting power ( or the AR-6 does) and/or fast shooting (the Renegade). for really range shooting, if i could, i would definitely go with the AA S-410, but since i do not have the money to readily afford that fortune, i would stick with the Maudy or an Evanix if i can.

  • StiCkY Says:

    B.B.

    Thank you so much for you thorough explanation, it was exactly what I needed to hear! I completely understand now, in crude laymans terms the .22 simply carries its self better, but you just have to compromise for more drop, which by your speakings seems consistent enough to easily compromise. I've never shot an air rifle more than 50 yrds and even then I only had to adjust for minute drop amounts so this long range target shooting is still pretty new to me. I also think that I have decided to go with the marauder, I feel its accuracy is sufficient enough if I do my calculations properly for good grouping at 50+yrds, which is some where around what I am looking for. I also like the adjustability of the rifle, and the highly rated trigger is a major plus being that is something needed for long range shooting!

  • StiCkY Says:

    Regarding Evanix rifles,

    I LOVE the AA S-410! I cant wait to get one (one day!!!) And yes, due to the consistency of the maudy, adjustability and superior trigger, I have decided to just hold off my purchase for a month or so to save up that extra money for the maudy/handpump ( I have a simmons 3-9×50 to try out on the maudy already) I think that it will be worth the extra money and waiting time! Before I purchase tho, does anyone know if the marauder will be sold WITH a pump in the near future, like the discovery combo? Thank you again for your input, and I look forward to starting LRT shooting *what a abbreviate for Long Range Target* :)

  • StiCkY Says:

    B.B. also,

    Is that why (from my readings) most FT rifle targets are not usually set more than 60yrds being that they use .177? FT is also something im looking into to maybe try, it looks like loads of fun, and will also give me a very good reason to buy a AA TX200 MkIII :). Happen to know any FT clubs, or where shoot air rifle FT in Arizona? Thank you

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    StiCkY,

    The .177 is used in field target because the small [pellet has a greater statistical probability of passing through the kill zone than a larger pellet.

    For a field target club in Arizona, go to the AAFTA Clubs page:

    http://www.aafta.org/html/organization/organization_aafta_clubs_sw.html

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    StiCkY,

    I don't expect the Marauder to be bundled with the pump. That was a way of getting people to consider buying the Discovery. Marauder buyers don't need an incentive.

    B.B.

  • StiCkY Says:

    B.B.

    Thank you for the link. Bummed to hear the marauder wont be offered in a bundle, but I agree, no incentive needed for the marauder :)

Leave a Reply


4 + 7 =

Top-notch springer
Air Arms TX200 air rifle

When it comes to spring-piston air rifles, the Air Arms TX200 Mk III is a favorite of many airgunners, including airgun writer Tom Gaylord. His favorite caliber is .177. While the gun will initially impress you with its beauty and superior craftsmanship, you'll be even more impressed with the incredible accuracy! Tom claims this is "the most accurate spring gun below $3,000." Beech or walnut, left-hand or right-hand stock. Isn't it time you got yours?

All the fun, none of the hassles!
Uzi CO2 BB submachine gun

You've seen tons of movies with guys spraying bullets from their Uzi submachine guns and probably thought it would be a blast. Except for the cost of ammo! You can have all that fun with this Uzi BB submachine gun at just pennies a round. Throw shots downrange for hours on end with all the fun, none of the firearm hassles and a fraction of the cost.

Archives