How does a scope work?

by B.B. Pelletier

Before we start, a little announcement. Many of you are already aware of this, but Pyramyd Air has purchased the assets of Compasseco, a Kentucky-based airgun dealership with strong ties to Chinese airguns. In fact, Compasseco could be said to be the company that helped guide Chinese airgun makers into the modern American airgun market.

Pyramyd Air plans on keeping the Compasseco warehouse for the foreseeable future, and they plan on continuing the sales and support of Compasseco-branded guns, especially those under the Tech Force brand name. Now, on to today’s report.

I wanted to subtitle this report “A look at the inside” because today I’m going to show you the inside of most scopes. It just happens to be on the outside of the scope I just mounted on my .43 Spanish Remington Rolling Block rifle, which affords me an excellent opportunity to show you how scope adjustments work.


My .43 Spanish Remington Rolling Block rifle looks right with this vintage Unertl scope mounted on it. From what I’ve read, 25 percent of the buffalo rifles were scoped, so scopes on these old guys is not such a foreign thing. When the rifle recoils, the scope slides forward in its mounts. Actually, when set up correctly, the scope never moves–the rifle simply moves out from under it in recoil!


This Unertl scope is unusual because its adjustments are all on the outside of the scope tube. And it slides under recoil. When the rifle comes back, the scope remains in place, appearing to move forward in the mounts. Though the scope moves, it returns to absolute zero every time, which is why it is so repeatable.

No erector tube
Many of our more advanced shooters are familiar with what I’ll be showing today. Essentially, these scopes are ones that have no internal erector tube, because the entire scope tube is being used as the erector tube. I’ve talked about how the erector tube works in many reports, but today I have the chance to show it to you. I think seeing how it works will solidify its construction and operation in your minds.

Older scopes are viewed today as vintage designs, which many newer shooters see as somehow limited in capability. Certainly, they’re not as advanced as the most modern optics we see today. They don’t have the nitrogen-filled internal optics of today’s best scopes, so they can fog up in certain climatic situations. And, they certainly don’t have all the high-tech lens coatings that aid in light transmission. So, you’ll be seeing darker target images and some flaring from reflected light. Compared to a modern scope, they contain from one-half to as little as one-third the number of parts to do the same function as a modern scope.

In their simplicity, they have one advantage that most modern scopes cannot equal, and that’s ruggedness. They are not unbreakable, because no optical instrument is that, but they are tough beyond the boundaries of today’s scopes, and they are easy to repair when they do break. They are the scopes that were used by military snipers in wars past and they delivered a remarkable performance under the most hostile conditions.

Mounts contain the adjustments
Instead of having an internal erector tube, this scope is one big erector tube, and the mounts contain the adjustments. Let me show you.


Here you have a very clear picture of the horizontal adjustment knob and a little of the vertical knob. Both are identical and work in the same way. These knobs have very precise clicks, and the knobs can be set to be very stiff to turn, so there’s no making a mistake. This scope is not mounted, so pay no attention to where the adjustments are set.


Looking at the back side of the scope mount, you see the return spring. The way this mount is designed, one spring acts on both the vertical and the horizontal adjustment knobs. It pushes against the scope tube, just as an internal spring system would do against an internal erector tube. The tension on this spring can be adjusted by the user, something that’s impossible with an internal erector tube. The dovetail fits on a machined steel scope block, and the screw has a shoulder that fits into a hollow in the top of the scope block. It positively will not move. But the scope itself is free to move back and forth under the control of these adjustment knobs and the return spring.


The front scope mount allows a steel rail on the scope tube to move through the mount backwards and forwards. The rail’s shoulders prevent any sideways twisting. At the left of the picture is the adjustable scope stop. The spring tension in this mount is set to compensate for the recoil of the specific rifle it’s mounted on. Talk about a practical application of the artillery hold!

How the outside-adjustable scope operates
When the rifle recoils, the scope remains in place while the rifle moves rearward underneath it. After every shot, the shooter slides the scope all the way back against the preset scope stop, making it ready for the next shot. If you forget, the scope eyepiece will be too far forward for you to aim, so you’ll be reminded. Some outside-adjustable scopes have large, coiled springs around the outside of the scope tube to return the scope to the starting point. Because the scope tube is precisely made, each time the scope is brought back to the start, it is in the exact same position as before. That’s why benchrest shooters use this type of scope to set world records.

The sliding motion is what scopes with internal erector tubes don’t have. They must suck up all the recoil and remain rigidly in place regardless of what hits them in terms of force. Scope makers have gotten very good at ruggedizing modern scopes so they don’t have problems with recoil; as you may know, spring airguns gave them some of their biggest challenges. Because they recoil in both directions when shot, springers put a strain on scopes in both directions. An externally adjusted scope like the one you’re looking at here wouldn’t be bothered by this two-way movement, but scopes that have to remain rigid certainly are.


The scope caps are steel caps with extremely fine threads cut into their edge. They fit the scope tube precisely.

I’ve used this excursion into scopes to illustrate how a modern scope works. By seeing the adjustments exposed, you should be able to better visualize how they must work when hidden inside the outer scope tube.

77 thoughts on “How does a scope work?

  1. Blog Index for September 2010

    1. A day at the range
    2. The Crosman Mark I and Mark II – Part 3
    3. Crosman’s 2240 pistol – Part 1
    6. S&W 78G and 79G – Part 1
    7. Beeman R1 – Part 3
    8. Crosman’s 2240 pistol – Part 2
    9. S&W 78G and 79G – Part 2
    10. B.B.’s airguns – What I kept and why – Part 3
    13. Crosman’s 2240 pistol – Part 3
    14. S&W 78G and 79G – Part 3
    15. Beeman R7 – Part 1
    16. A brief history of Beeman and Air Rifle Headquarters – Part 3
    17. A shrine built for a Feinwerkbau 124 – Part 7
    20. A shrine built for a Feinwerkbau 124 – Part 8
    21. The Beeman R7 – Part 2
    22. A shrine built for a Feinwerkbau 124 – Part 9
    23. How many shots per fill? It depends…
    24. H&K MP5 K-PDW CO2-powered BB gun – Part 1
    27. B.B.’s airguns – What I kept and why – Part 4
    28. H&K MP5 K-PDW CO2-powered BB gun – Part 2
    29. The Umarex Steel Storm – Part 1
    30. How does a scope work?


  2. When I was in junior high school, my dad bought me a Winchester M70 in .264 caliber so we could hunt deer together. It came with a Weaver V-8 scope. This was in the early 1960s. One day in the late ’90s, I happened to look closely at that Weaver and was surprised to see that it, like your scope in today’s blog, had external adjustments! The scope was adjusted right on, so I’d never paid close attention to it. Unlike your Unertle, B.B., the Weaver mount adjusting pins ended in points where they touched the scope.



  3. B.B.

    A nice idea for high-magnification scopes on magnum springers I suppose. Precision rail mount may be a real solution…
    I wonder why scope makers didn’t use that – perhaps that’s because that would narrow the market, as unbreakable scope is a business failure. I’ve read about shooters in US re-working their modern high-magnification scopes into a semblance of that Unertl piece with external adjustments and saying it’s the best way to use a scope on a high-power powderburner.

    A practical question – from what I’ve seen and read on JW airrifles, I understand that ratchet provides multi-pull cocking on JW-65 up to 80. Does this mechanism also prevent shooting with open lever for a single-pull models like JW-50?

    duskwight


    • I can see one major problem with using this kind of setup on a springer….
      The recoil is bidirectional on a springer. You would have to figure out how to let the scope slide in both directions from a repeatable starting point.

      twotalon


      • twotalon

        Well I cannot tell, maybe you’re right. I guess that can be solved by bi-directional movement of the scope on the rail, with stop in form of a notch and a ball, just for knowing it’s in place. Another thing – one direction AFAIR is smoother than the other and that makes less demand for durability – leads to simpler design etc. And AFAIR most “durabilization” comes on adjustment system, so in case of external adjustments.

        duskwight


      • twotalon,

        The rearward recoil of a springer is much heavier than the forward recoil, so I would guess that the scope could be set up exactly like this one. It would initially slide back, then return partway toward the front when the piston stopped. It would be interesting to try.

        B.B.


        • B.B.
          I hate to take issue with your statement about springers having a heavier recoil to the rear than forward, but…..
          Scope stops (both built in and add ons) are set up to keep the mounts from sliding to the rear during recoil. So is the droop adapter I got for my 48. Mounts and scopes try to slide to the rear, which can only be caused by heavier recoil in the forward direction.

          twotalon


          • twotalon,

            I guess you are right! I hadn’t thought it through, but we do brace our scope mounts against rearward movement.

            B.B.


    • Duswkwight,

      I have to assume that John Whiscombe designed his single-pull rifles to not fire wen the lever is open. On the triple-pull rifles that I have, the safety isn’t set until the end of the last pull, and that’s the only time the gun can be fired.

      Actually, owning a Whiscombe, I never even thought of trying to fire the rifle with the lever open, so I’m not even sure mine would or wouldn’t fire that way. And I’m not about to find out.

      B.B.


  4. B.B.

    The design you are showing us looks very reliable.
    I have been plagued over the last few years with bad scopes………..
    Distorted image, sticky adjustments, loose lenses, temperature sensitivity, works for a while then suddenly goes to crap. And the temperature sensitivity is not just a simple poi change with temperature change. The adjustments get sticky below certain temperatures. Any bump throws the registration off and it will not return reliably when cold.

    It’s bad enough if the scope is the only possible problem, but it is not always so. Too many other things make a rifle squirrely too. It can be hard to tell what is wrong when you have multiple problems. Anything you do can help, but there is still a problem.
    I have gotten to the point that I can almost smell a bad scope.

    Never have spent a lot of money on a scope. Maybe that is the problem. But what if I buy expensive scopes and have the same problems?

    twotalon


  5. Scopes, at least when mounted on airguns, are more trouble than they’re worth, in my humble (read not humble) estimation. Far too finicky, they are.


  6. Morning B.B.,

    This Unertl scope just looks right on your .43 Spanish Remington Rolling Block rifle. I’ve got a Lyman Super-Targetspot that I picked up used in 1964 that sits on my 22-250. It came with a fitted wooden box and the instructions which includes a table that gives the value of the click adjustments based on the distance between the mounting blocks. This one has an external return spring and a focusing objective lens. Not as bright as the new scopes, but its certainly stood the test of time. Let me know if you would like a copy of the instructions for your library.

    Bruce


    • Bruce,

      Thank you for your generous offer. Actually the man I got the scope from has the same chart and we set up this scope for quarter-minute clicks.

      This man owns a total of perhaps 30 of these kind of outside-adjustable scopes. Several Lyman Super Targetspots, many of these 6X Unertls shown here, several Unertls in higher magnifications, some others like Fecker and some off brands like Wollensak. He has perhaps 20 mounted on rifles and the rest are in wooden and cardboard boxes, waiting to be installed. It’s a real treasure of times past.

      B.B.


  7. B.B.
    Good news about Compasseco. I bought a Contender 87 and an 89 a few weeks ago both in .22 cal.
    Perhaps you can put them both on your report “to do list”.

    Thanks
    Pete


    • Pete,

      There is no doubt that I will be reviewing Compasseco’s gus in the future. But I already did a big review of the Tech Force Contender 89 for Compasseco. It’s on their website at this location:

      http://www.compasseco.com/contenderseries-model-a-8.html

      I wrote that article in 2002 and unfortunately Compasseco lost the photos through the process of several website revisions over the years. But the text is still valid. I reported that I thought the 89 was one of the nicest breakbarrels I had tested recently, and that still holds today. It is based on the AR 1000 that Vince touts so strongly.

      B.B.


      • BB,
        I read your article on the 89. Sounds like an extremely good choice, except for that 34lb cocking effort, can’t have 18lb on everything, I guess. :-)

        One thing I noticed is that way back in 2008, for this rifle anyway, you did the accuracy test before the velocity test. If I’m remembering correctly, today you always do the velocity test first. I like your today’s sequence better because it creates that cliff hanger effect before Part 3.
        -CJr


  8. BB: Your Unertl looks great on your Remington. Scopes can also be quite modern looking and have mounts with external adjustments. I have a Balvar 8 ,2.5 to 8 power variable mounted on my 6.5 Swede Mauser. It was made by B&L and is modern in every respect , I believe the objective is around 42 mm with a 1″ tube. It is mounted in Buehler mounts on my mauser. The scope originally came in some Kuharsky Bros ( of Erie PA.) mounts when it was aquired. It is a very bright scope with fine tapered cross hairs. Back in the day many cheaper internally adjusted scopes moved the cross hairs in a tube inside the scope. A lot of adjustment resulted in an image that could be impossible to deal with ,if the scope was not in line with the bore of the gun. It was not like the erector tube type design that most today are familar with, which often has considerable latitude in windage and elevation adjustments,Robert.


    • Robert,

      I owned one of those scope like you describe. It was a Nickel Supra and as the elevation was changed, the reticle moved up and down in the field of view. I must admit I didn’t care for it.

      B.B.


      • BB: Did you find a reliable repair man for the vintage scopes in your quest for a glass for your Remington? I’ve been loking for someone to repair my older 1970′s 10X Redfield which has been damaged. I called Redfield but the number they gave me didn’t pan out. If you know of someone could you post it on the blog? Thanks in advance ,Robert.


  9. BB looks like Pyramyd is on a roll… again. The Airgun “Mega-Store” comes to mind?

    I think most of us here would agree, that despite the PA growth these past few years, the level of customer service, tech help and this blog (read Edith & Tom) are what continues to set PA apart from the rest of the airgun seller herd.


  10. B.B.,

    Magnificent! Not many shooters turn my head at the range anymore but that one sure would. Nice marriage.

    The unertl 6X was a great find and with the caps. Reminds me…many of these period scopes and caps are mixing steel and alloy. Not sure of yours but wouldn’t hurt to keep an eye out for corrosion. I use rigs grease on my threads. Don’t ask how I found out about the steel and alloy gremlin on scope caps and vintage scopes.

    kevin




  11. B.B.

    Thanks for a great look at scope history. That one looks great on your old Remington.

    Are you going buffalo hunting:-)???

    Wacky Wayne


  12. Wow. PA acquires Compasseco. Who would have thought? In general I think this is good, but have several concerns here.

    First there is now less competition so maybe less incentive to keep prices down?

    Second I hope and pray Pyramid does not start a whole sale discontinue of Tech Force products. I have a TF 59 which is amazingly accurate and trouble free. I have it scoped with a TF 3 X 7 X 32 AO scope which is pretty amazing also for a $60 scope.

    And I shoot great groups with the TF Match .177 pellets. Those pellets are $4.95 per tin of 500 and come so close to H & N Finale Match pellets in group size it would be hard to pick which group was fired with which pellet. The H & N pellet is my benchmark in most guns as it is the most accurate pellet in most guns. The TF pellets are only a few thousands of an inch behind them in most guns. They usually are second most accurate in most of my guns. Wow it would be great if PA made these available with the 4th tin free and without changing the price!

    On the other side of the coin, maybe PA can influence the Chinese to use better seal materials in their copies of the QB series of rifles. I had a TF 79 TH which was simply the most accurate rifle I have ever fired off hand or from a rest at 10 meters but had to return it because the seals failed before 500 rounds. Ditto for a TF 78 I had from them. If they would just use modern seal materials those guns would be total winners!


    • pcp4me,

      Your concerns have been forwarded to Pyramyd Air. And I think they knew about them before you mentioned them. believe me, this subject was talked about a lot as the deal was being made. Nobody wants to torpedo the good guns China is making, and I agree that the 59 is a good one. So are the 18 and the 39.

      We have already discussed the TF 78 and 79 rifles. They understand the importance of this model series to the U.S. airgun scene.

      B.B.


  13. BB,
    Great scope tutorial! Looking forward to more. Really neat looking rifle/scope combo, too. I have been looking for a scope for my Walther Lever Action that looks more period like yours, read old time, maybe not accurate 1894 config. Did they even have scopes for that rifle back then? Today’s modern and/or “tactical” scopes don’t do it antique justice. I have a really, really cheap Gamo 4x20TV WA on it now. The quality of the scope is poor in my estimation but the aesthetics of the narrow tube make it look very good, very “old time” on the rifle.

    BTW, you made the announcement about Compasseco but you didn’t say how you felt about it. Can you tell us what this means to you?

    -CJr


    • CJr how do you like that Walther Lever Action?

      Does it shoot well with the open sights?

      I keep toying with purchasing this rifle and the $299 price at PA is the lowest going out there.

      PS did you know that the new Euro version of this rifle uses the 88 gram Air Source Co2 in the butt of the gun? Umarex tells me that they don’t plan to import it into the US but… maybe wait and see?


      • Brian,
        I really, really like the Walther Lever Action. It is my favorite rifle of the many I own. It is very accurate from the bench. I like it, not because it is accurate ,which it is, but because of WHAT it is. It is just a cool rifle with unique lever action and feels like the real deal. The lever action is very smooth. I would someday like to get the real thing to keep next to it but that’ll probably never happen on my budget.

        I am not an open-site shooter so I can’t tell you about that. I scope everything. I do have an IZH-46 pistol coming that I may not scope but I don’t know that, yet, and I do have a couple IZH-61′s with peeps.

        I would like to have one in HPA but an 88g would be better than the dual 12s not that they’re that big a deal, just a little nicer. Side note: If the Alpha pistol can get 60 good shots on the tiny tank in its grip why couldn’t the Walther have a larger one in its stock and get more?

        -CJr


    • Chuck,

      Telescopic sights certainly predate all Winchester model 1894s. They go back to before the American Civil War, and by 1894 they had evolved into pretty much what you see here. Look at this website to see what a period scope really looks like:

      http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=malcolm+scope&hl=en&client=safari&pwst=1&rls=en&prmd=sn&resnum=1&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=11999245173609298580&ei=5_ikTObEB8P58AbA1pH7AQ&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CEUQ8wIwAQ#ps-sellers

      B.B.


  14. B.B.

    I have never used a rifle scope of this type, but I have always wondered about the proportions of these vintage scopes and the brightness of the image they provide. Is brightness an issue except in sunny days?

    T.E.


    • TE,

      They aren’t that dark, but in the deep dark forest or at dawn you would notice a difference between one of these and a top o’ the line modern scope with coated optics. As long as their lenses are clean and they don’t fog up they are plenty bright for most shooting. U.S. Snipers used this type of scope in World War II.

      B.B.


  15. BB:
    Live and learn about how a scope operates.
    I always thought the scope adjusters just acted on the cross-hairs somehow.
    Now I know how they really work.
    Great :)

    Good shooting yesterday with the 99s.
    5 shot 1 inch groups at 50 ft open sighted with my H&N hollow points.
    If I can source the JSB Exacts,I can’t wait to give them a go.
    Also shot a few of those SMK pointed .22′s of mine.
    Absolute Pony(pony and trap=cr*p) So it isn’t just my B3 having problems with them.
    DaveUK


    • Dave,

      Yeah, I thought showing how this scope adjusts would make it that much clearer for most people.

      As for those JSB pellets, and chance you can find Air Arms domes, which are the same thing only made on Air Arms dies?

      B.B.



  16. B.B.,

    Is the scope tube lubricated? I would think that the repeated movement of the scope would eventually result in axial scarring or grooving of the tube where the two adjustment screws and the 45 degree spring contact the tube. Or am I being a complete dufus and misunderstanding the operating principle entirely?

    AlanL


    • Alan,

      The tube is completely dry. I don’t know how many times the scope on my rifle has been shot, but there are no wear lines in the bluing.

      B.B.


  17. So, modern scopes have scopes inside them? How interesting. And that is also a surprise to hear that the older scopes were so rugged. You hear a lot today about how older scopes were fragile in comparison to today’s scopes. It sounds like older scopes with the reduced light transmission would work at shorter ranges although that obviously wasn’t true of the Civil War sniper shooting from a mile with a 4X scope. Maybe the key was in having a low power for that distance.

    Good news about the Compasseco acquisition. I used to visit their site and read the reviews, but I didn’t have time to follow two airgun sites, and there was no question about which one I would choose.

    Matt61


    • Matt,
      How far back do those negative comments go? I’m definitly no expert but my take is that maybe the older scopes being talked about in that way are scopes of the same design as todays but had inferior manufacturing techniques and materials than today’s scopes have. BB’s old scope looks like if you ran out of ammo you could beat a buffalo to death with it and still shoot grouse with it later.
      -CJr


  18. BB,
    That scope really gives people the idea of what needs to go on inside a more modern design.

    Good news about PA buying Compasseco; it should be good for everyone involved. I’ve been eyeing those TF87 underlevers in .22 for some time, but just haven’t had time to mess with it. Maybe you can review it one day, but please wait for your body to heal completely — the cocking effort (esp. before tearing it down) is likely brutal, and its bigger than a 36-2, so it is huge. The TF58 is also a nice little rifle if it is anything like the QB88 we have, and it looks identical except for cosmetics.


    • BGF I was eye-balling that TF58 today too! Looks like a nice little tack driver?

      Do you have any direct experience with any of these Tech Force guns?

      I’m guessing that a thorough cleaning, inspection and lube-job would be in order? Maybe some polishing as well?


      • Brian,
        The one we have (technically, it belongs to my wife) is a QB88 with generic “Industry Brand” markings. The TF58 looks to be the same action on a nicer stock. Our 88 smoked excessively for a while and then settled down into a nice accurate shooter, very insensitive to hold for a springer, and I haven’t done anything to it. The main problem with it was a loose front sight; the length of pull was also excessive for my wife, so I cut it down to Lilliputian scale:). The Shanghai factory itself has considerably improved its products over the last several years, and Compasseco itself apparently received a somewhat better grade of rifle than the generic market, so I expect the current TF58 would be better out of the box. However, I think if you got one with an accurate barrel, it would be well worth your while to tear it down and put in a new synthetic piston seal and lube everything properly; it is a nice shooter and the trigger is an older version of the Gamo trigger, which can be modified with aftermarket parts to be pretty nice. In concept, it is a target rifle, so a low cost aperture might be nice on it also. It would be a good project with a useful outcome, assuming the accuracy is good. That would be my only caution — the barrels range from really accurate to pretty sloppy on Chinese rifles.

        Along with the trigger’s ability to be adjusted and upgraded, another nice feature is the visible steel hook that retains the sliding cylinder while loading.


  19. What a classy rifle and scope! It looks like it belongs in a museum. I hope that is one you keep.

    I think the problem I have with older scopes is that the springs pushing the erector tube against the adjusters become weak. When this happens scopes don’t stay in adjustment very well.

    David Enoch


    • David,

      Yep, this one is a keeper!

      I guess cheaper scopes may have weak springs. I know that I always caution owners to not adjust their scopes too high or too right, so the springs are kept under some tension.

      B.B.


  20. hello, I am wondering if you can help me diagnose the troubles I am having with my marauder 22. I have had it for 5 months and has been great until now. I am noticing that I am getting air leakage out of the gun. I filled it to 2800 PSI last night and today it is reading 2100 psi. Have the seals gone bad and need replacement? Where can I buy replacements? Thank you!

    Really enjoy the blog and podcast!!


    • Lee,

      You have a fast leak. If it’s in the intake valve, Crosman really ought to fix it for you, because that end of the gun is a trifle complex. If it’s on the firing end, you may be able to fix it yourself.

      First, how much do you shoot your gun? If you haven’t shot it in a while, put 50 shots through it and fill it again. Sometimes there is a tiny particle of dirt that has to be blown off the firing valve seat.

      One way to tell how much it’s leaking is to put the gun in a trash bag and seal it. If the bag inflates, the gun is leaking.

      Soapy water around the intake port is the way to find out if that valve is leaking. Mix up a little soapy water and put a couple drops over the male fill nipple and see whether it blows bubbles. If so, I recommend letting Crosman fix the gun.

      B.B.


  21. Some success with the Titan this afternoon.
    I had softened up the trigger springs a while back but it was still roughand long.
    I tore the trigger assy apart again and attacked it with the dremel. With a polishing disk ( not grinding stone) I cleaned up the first sear (contacts a pin in the trigger and also holds the main sear). Polished both the trigger contact point and the catch that holds the main sear.
    Slapped on some moly.
    It’s light and super smooth now, but still long. Not a problem.

    twotalon


    • twotalon

      My curiosity has been piqued by the Titan. I am using reports of plastic washers at the barrel pivot bolt preventing precise lock up/accuracy as my excuse to stay away. Did you replace these washers, or do you have any problem with your lock up/accuracy? How do you like the thumbhole stock?


      • Yes, it has large plastic washers on both sides of the pivot. Everything fits tight, and there is no lockup problem.
        Stock is not bad.
        Had to replace the piston seal because it was badly damaged at the factory. Trigger was pretty bad. Seems to be a common problem (the trigger).
        Might be able to see how it is going to shoot now.
        MV low 700′s with .22 CP.
        twotalon


  22. Compasseco, in the past, I sold a fair number of their imports. I used to buy them be the case. For a couple years, I was the local “Go To Guy” for inexpensive airguns. It was fun for a while but I eventually flooded the local market. As I recall I had to return about one in twelve with some sort of problem. I also used to check them over and zero them prior to sale. I found most of my customers were not gun people and just wanted them to work out of the box with no fuss on their part, so I provided the service free with the gun. It was one of the few ideas that I have had over the years that I made any money at.

    Mike



    • Dang it!!! I meant Lloyd,
      Lloyd, Thanks again for the Scuba gauge info. Pete, you’re still a great guy with lots of info, too, but this reply was for Lloyd.
      -CJr


  23. Bad news in the Country’s job numbers today. With PA’s acquisition of Compasseco, the prospects for the “Airgun Guru’s” further employment look bleak.



    • Sorry, I thought you were the “Pete the great guy”. But, if you would like to be, send me $100 in a self addressed, stamped envelope and I’ll tell you how you the secret how you can become one.
      -CJr


  24. BB – I gotta ask… is Pyramydair.com gonna bring some reality to Compasseco’s velocity claims? 1100 for a TF99 – yeah, right – and they were claiming this well BEFORE Gamo Raptors…


    • Vince,

      They will probably fix these claims, but I don’t know how high on the list they will be.

      I’ll forward your comments to them.

      B.B.


  25. What a nostalgia blast! I had a 20X Unertl with the end caps, back when you could pick ‘em up for $200 or so at a gun show.

    They used these external mount scopes in Nam, also used some Redfield scopes with an interesting mount, modern type scopes but you’d click the front scope ring into the front mount at a right angle to the rifle, rotate to lock in, then screw down the rear. The sniper was supposed to travel to his hide with the scope off the rifle and then assemble on site.

    Crawling through the jungle, the long external-mount scopes would tend to catch on things. A modern Unertl scope made for snipers (any power you like as long as you like 10X) would be far preferable.

    I love scopes but on airguns, I’d like to see more PEEP SIGHTS available.





          • Wow. Yeah Unertl stuff has headed for the Moon.

            What fascinates me here is Gunbroker, since PayPal is anti-gun, is it effectively like Ebay before PayPal entered the scene, no PayPal evilness and reasonable fees? The fees certainly look reasonable. I may consider setting up an account because I know how to make these cool little aluminum can stoves and I may be able to sell some other stuff I make or find on there.

            Including my Sheridan.


  26. B.B.,
    Very sexy set-up. The scope and gun look like they were made for each other. The single adjustable spring button for the windage and elevation screws is simplicity itself, something I really admire in a design: no excess, just functionality, and still pleasing to the eye.
    Lloyd


  27. B.B.
    Thanks for the link on the TF 89. Having read your article, I will go back to square one and start by tightening all screws and will also lube the trigger assy and then shoot some more groups to see if the accuracy will improve.
    The TF 87 has settled down after 200 shots and I actually shot a dime sized 5 shot group using Beeman Silver Bears/ H & N Hollow points- Open Sights from a rested position at 12 yards.Will send pictures if that is allowed.
    All pellets were lubed and sorted for damaged skirts. My only disappointment with the TF 87 so far is the Bluing on the metal- there was slight evidence of rust on the barrel and two spots on the cocking lever where the bluing is incomplete. This is an inexpensive fix so I will give the TF 87 a 4.5 out of 5 rating.
    Pete


    • Pete,

      I’ve found rust on Weihrauchs that were new. Sprat the metal with Ballistol and wipe off the rust. It’s that easy.

      Keep telling me about that 87. And what’s wrong with your 89? You do know that it is very hold-sensitive, yes?

      B.B.


  28. B.B.
    Thanks again for the tip. Will put it on my “to do list” but for now I am wiping it down with silicone after every use. The TF 87 is a beautiful gun to look at right out of the box- reminds me of the RWS 46 which was the perfect blend of metal and wood. It is a heavy gun but surprisingly easy to cock, much easier than the 89. I guess the articulated cocking lever is what makes it easier. I am 5′ 9″ and 160 lbs and find it relatively easy; just grab the pistol grip with your right hand, brace the butt against you upper thigh and pull down the cocking lever with your left hand until the sear engages. The best group I mentioned earlier was achieved using the artillery hold just behind the forward portion of the checkering on the stock with no other portion of the gun coming into contact with the barrel I was using as a rest. The power is adequate with pellets passing right through a plastic 64oz pop bottle filled with water a 20yds. The 89 is shooting low and to the right. I have already tightened the stock screws twice and the groups tightened somewhat so i am beginning to suspect that the screw connecting the barrel to the receiver is slack. My priority is to tighten all screws with locktite and then use the artillery hold just forward of the trigger guard as you suggested. Will let you know how that works out.
    Pete


    • Pete,

      I think it’s your hold technique that isn’t there yet. And you seem to suspect the same thing.

      Try balancing the 89 on the backs of your fingers (with the hand resting on a bag) and the hand slid back so that it touches the triggerguard. That will make the rifle very muzzle-heavy and I think your groups will tighten up.

      B.B.


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