Daisy’s 693 CO2 BB pistol

by B.B. Pelletier

Update on Tom/B.B.: I spent most of Easter Sunday at the hospital. Tom is off the ventilator and breathing on his own. I hope that he can stay that way and not be placed back on the ventilator through the night. He’s hoarse right now, but is able to vocalize a bit. All his tests and vital signs are normal, so things are looking quite good as I write this late Sunday night.

Now, on to today’s blog, which originally appeared in The Airgun Letter in March 2000.


The 693 is an exciting and attractive action BB pistol.

The 693 is a half-nickel/half-black variation of Daisy’s model 93. It’s a 15-shot BB repeater fed from a hidden in-line quick-change clip that resides inside the top “slide.” To load the clip outside the gun, one hand holds down the spring-loaded follower while the other dumps BBs one at a time through the feed hole. It’s just a bit fiddly until you get the knack of it. Once the BBs are all in, release the follower and make sure it’s bearing against the BBs, then drop the clip into its slot and close the top, making the gun ready to fire. For those who shoot their guns a lot, Daisy sells a 3-pack of spare clips.


The spring-loaded BB clip slips into the top of the pistol, where it’s hidden from view.

The 693 is a double-action-only pistol, meaning that each pull of the trigger also cocks the hammer. That’s not the piece sticking up at the rear of the slide, but the actual hammer hidden inside the gun. What appears to be an external hammer on the rear of the slide is just a casting and completely nonfunctional, as is the slide release.

The trigger-pull is light, long and only hindered by a small amount of creep, so it’s easy to stay on target when shooting. As Elmer Keith used to tell his students, use the resistance of the double-action trigger-pull to stabilize the gun in your hand. This is helped, no doubt, by the extra-wide trigger blade, which I happen to like.

The gun has a cast metal frame (that’s the silver part) with mostly plastic parts. Although it’s very light, at 20 oz., it’s full-sized and feels good to an adult hand.

Notice the extended rectangular block coming out from the back of the grip. That’s the grip safety, and it’s functional. Unless it’s depressed, you can pull the trigger all you want but nothing will happen–just like the ones on firearms.


With the left grip removed, access is gained to the CO2 cartridge compartment. The large thumbscrew under the grip forces the CO2 cartridge into the piercing pin.

The pistol is powered by one CO2 cartridge inside the grip. The left grip panel pops away from the gun, revealing the CO2 cartridge compartment and mechanism. Remember to put a drop of Crosman Pellgunoil on the tip of each CO2 cartridge and drop it in the well neck-up. Then, simply screw the thumbscrew at the bottom of the grip until the cartridge is pierced.

Daisy reports a muzzle velocity of 400 f.p.s. for all their similar gas BB guns. When I chronoed the 693, it was on a cool day and we used the unmarked BBs Daisy sent with the gun. I’m not sure, but they look like Precision Ground Shot under a 10X jeweler’s loupe.

Daisy 693 pistol
66 deg. F – Muzzle at start screen
10 shots – 5.3-gr Daisy BBs

High……..389 fps
Low……..379 fps
Average……..385 fps
Extreme spread……..10 fps
Standard deviation……..4 fps
Muzzle energy……..1.75 ft-lbs


Ten shots were fired from a distance of 15 feet. Two of them are in the white–one cutting the black at 2 o’clock, and the other is in the 5-ring at 7:30. The sights are pretty much where they should be for this distance. The long, smooth trigger-pull helps you center the shots, which is nice because the pistol is double-action-only.

Shots were taken at approximately 15-second intervals to allow the gun to warm up. This is a normal procedure I use because CO2 is a coolant gas. By rapidly firing any CO2 gun, the internal mechanism is chilled by the rapidly expanding gas, and the cool parts chill the gas from the next shot, resulting in lower velocity. This doesn’t mean you can’t fire the pistol as fast as you can pull the trigger; it will work fine that way. It’s just a consideration I use for reporting the velocities so the gun doesn’t take an unnecessary hit in the consistency department. If the 693 were a target pistol, the lowering of velocities through rapid fire might be a concern; but with a fun gun, it doesn’t matter that much.

Throughout the test, I seemed to get about 60 good shots from a CO2 cartridge. It’s fairly easy to track because the magazine holds 15. All you have to do is count the number of magazines, and you have the total.

Accuracy is more or less minute-of-cardboard-box, as befits a smoothbore pistol. Part of that is due to the double-action trigger. Through training, you can expect your scores to climb.

One benefit of the lower velocity and nearness to the target is that you get immediate feedback of where your BBs are going. After a few shots, instinct takes over and you can plaster the target without reference to the sight–which is what this little gun is all about, I suppose.

It’s a fun gun, meant for a good time of informal target shooting and nothing too serious–a lineup of plastic soldiers in a sandbox, balloons, Necco wafers, etc. It’s certainly not meant for hunting or serious competition.

As always when shooting steel BBs, you must wear safety glasses at all times. That also goes for any observers who happen to be around. Steel BBs can rebound from hard targets with nearly the same force they went downrange, so play it safe.

76 thoughts on “Daisy’s 693 CO2 BB pistol

  1. Edith

    This is great news. BB will soon be completely well. Please ask him to take complete rest.

    Manish
    Mumbai
    India








  2. Edith,

    That is very encouraging news about Tom. We are all pulling for him and awaiting his return. At his own pace, of course.

    Can anybody here give me some advice on how to avoid vertical stringing of shots? I am having this problem with my springers, especially my Crosman Storm XT. I did a search on this blog, but could only find a rather vague reference to breathing the wrong way. Horizontal stringing was better explained.

    I shoot targets at 25 yards, using scopes and a sandbag off the hood of my car. I use the artillery hold, the forestock resting on my left hand (fingers), the hand resting on the sandbag.

    My thanks to anyone who can offer advice.

    Les


  3. Les,

    vertical stringing of shots is due to any number of issues, mostly described as "improper shooting technique". it could be caused by a poor sight picture, a change of hold in between shots or other items. You'll have to do some research to determine what you or the gun is doing to cause this but that's kind of the fun in this sport.

    For some of your research online, use the litte search box at the right of the blog. You'll come up with a whole bunch of causes, here's one:

    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2009/04/haenel-model-1-part-4-compulsive-airgun.html

    Good luck.

    Edith, wonderful news about Tom.

    Fred PRoNJ


  4. Desertdweller….
    I have a Storm XT also and have the same problem.
    I have yet to figure anything out for a bench rested position. I can get it to shoot pretty good from a standing position while braced against something for stability, but I don't dare rest my hand on anything.

    twotalon


  5. Les,

    Fred PRoNJ is right. Vertical stringing could be caused by a number of things.

    In my case, when shooting guns with scopes, it's usually due to parallax error.

    I haven't dialed all the parallax out of the scope and/or my check weld is inconsistent.

    If my check pressure on the stock varies between shots it will result in the shot being high or low.

    Here's a good tutorial on dialing the parallax out of your scope:

    http://ateam.100free.com/ateamh/A_Team_Parallax_adj.htm

    Hope this helps since I know how frustrating it can be.

    kevin




  6. Glad to hear good news about Tom. Seems like a long time to be on a ventilator. Get well Tom!!!

    DD – First thing is skip and rests and use the artillery hold. Also, you may want to try using open sights to see if there is a problem with the scope. 10 yards may work. When checking out a scope, you may want to try 20 yards. A lot of non adj. ao scopes for airguns px are set to 20 yards.

    When I had that problems, finding the right hold, artillery hold, worked the best. With my springer I hold it on the front just the palm of my hand and as lightly as possible elswhere. Also, I checked all my screws and the last thing was to shim the breech seal.


  7. Kevin,

    Thanks for posting that link about scope adjustment. I didn't know that part about the eyepiece adjustment.

    Edith,

    Glad to hear Tom is doing so much better. I opened up the blog on Saturday, forgetting that it was the weekend, and was mortified to not see an update on Tom's condition. I thought maybe he had taken a turn for the worse and was requiring your attention. Thank goodness it was only my internal clock that was off.

    Also, thank you (and Vince) for the link to Vince's report on breech seal shimming. I've been wanting to do that on one of my guns and just didn't know what materials would work best.

    - Orin


  8. Les,

    I am struggling with similar issues with my Quest 800, and I'm finding that my gun seems to prefer a variation on the artillery hold that has a little more pressure of the butt into my shoulder. It is not perfect yet, but is better, and you might find it worth playing with this variable in your case.

    The other thing I have done to help with my cheekweld is to carefully place a thin strip of cloth (hockey) tape on the stock. I can then feel this in terms of where it contacts my cheek (as well as how hard) and can thus position my head fairly consistently.

    Alan in MI


  9. Edith,

    Getting off a ventilator must feel great for Tom. I bet this is the first vacation he has had in years.

    BG_Farmer, you're right about the paramilitary orientation of many gun stores. Numbers of the reviews online talked about the presence of shaved heads and combat boots. I have this theory. Maybe the rude manners are part of a rough and tough persona that workers feel moved to put on to prove their credentials. Or maybe it is just a style they adopt. I understand that the people who run sushi bars are traditionally rude and their stuff is overpriced. The last time we went to one, the guy was such a jerk that my parents and I walked out never to return to a sushi bar.

    For gun stores, there is the additional fact that people are dealing with what is potentially very destructive equipment. It should be. People have spent centuries figuring out how to make it that way, and this could potentially put people on edge. You see this in martial arts schools. Some people radiate aggression. Or, paradoxically, you see a kind of excessive politeness which is another face of the same thing. Anyway, I'm going to give my new gun store all my support. They are a real gem.

    There must be something about the traditional border states and teeth. My brother relayed this joke from Kentucky, where he moved a few years ago (Lexington).

    Q: How do we know that toothpaste was invented in Kentucky?

    A: Otherwise, it would be called "teethpaste."

    Heh heh. My ancestors were from Kentucky, so I'm not making fun of the state. Actually, I'm told that I might be a Son of the American Revolution (SAR) related to Daniel Boone although the membership has lapsed and is anecdotal.

    Matt61


  10. TwoTalon & Slinging Lead,

    I spoke to Glenn Seiter, chief of the tech dept at Umarex this morning. He said the same thing you said, twotalon. That what I described is impossible. He's also never heard of a pull rod breaking while on the backward (cocking) stroke. So I now have to think I and my rifle took a detour through the Twilight Zone on Saturday. He wants to see the rifle to check it out, so I will remove the mount with scope and pack it off to him tomorrow. I'll keep you guys abreast of developments.

    I can only theorize that the sudden release of energy from having the pull rod break while under full load in the cocking stroke causes something to react differently in the rifle, and I don't see how one could duplicate the event without actually cutting through the pull rod while the lever is being pulled back. You wouldn't want to try that now, twotalon, would you? ;-)

    -AlanL


  11. AlanL
    No matter if something is improbable or impossible…
    Either way some really strange stuff can happen.
    It would be good if they change out all the parts no matter if they can find anything wrong or not. The shotgun approach has a better chance of getting a freaky problem fixed.

    twotalon


  12. Mr. B

    Have'nt given the D27 any attention after stripping the paint. Still stuck in the capital with work.

    Manish


  13. AlanL
    Here's an example of a screwy problem…
    My TSS had trigger and safety problems. Sometimes fire when the safety was released..or other times fail to fire when the trigger was pulled but fired when the trigger was released. The problems were not constant. They would come and go.

    Real problem was that the holes in the frame for the trigger components were drilled cockeyed and too deep into the frame. The hammer sear set crooked into the frame, and both the hammer sear and the first sear were rubbing the frame and were not able to freely position right during cocking or move right during firing. Improper movement of the safety balk interfered with both operations.

    In other words..the frame was bad.

    I made adequate "adjustments" to make it work. I had to as I did not send the warranty card in .

    twotalon


  14. Matt,

    there are four gun stores within fifteen miles of where I live in PA. One of them does not carry a lot of stuff but the owners and employees are really knowledgeable and like to help. This is near Amish country. The farther east you go and the closest you get to populated areas, the harsher the store clerks look and sound.
    In the best indoor range, the employees look on edge all the time. They all carry and they all seem to have been policemen. It is like they are expecting something to happen any second. If you want to buy something there, you better do your homework and know what you are looking for.

    Once you have gone there many times, they become comfortable with you. They are really nice guys, just put up a tough exterior maybe out of need.


  15. Okay…I don't want to pigeon-hole any group of people I don't know, but where I live Texans are considered to all be gun-totin' rednecks.
    I feel okay relatin this (true or not, I don't know) because I am from Alberta, Canada.
    Throughout Canada, Alberta's are called 'Canada's Texas Rednecks'. Now we do have the hightest percentage of gun ownership in the country…the highest percentage of outdoor sportsman…etc.
    So who knows ;-)
    Anyways, commenting on some of the above posts, there are two large gunshops nearby. One is staffed by highly knowledgeable staff. They sponsor various gun workshop/courses (including IPSC) and are extremely helpful.
    The other…really…you walk into the place and you feel like you are attending a neo-nazi convention. Skinheads galore…talk about getting rid of undesirables at any cost…bleeech!!
    The only problem is the 'nice' place seems to work on a 50% markup vs the 20% markup of the 'not so nice' people.
    So I've bought more than a few things you know where.
    The thing that sucks is that whenever gun rights related issues crop up in the news…you of course know where the media flocks to to get comments.
    Sad


  16. Update on Custom Crosman 2300KT:

    I just spoke to Ms. Jan at Crosman, who confirmed that the picture of the pistol on their custom shop page is misleading. It shows a 2300T with a brass bolt with round ball handle. The brass bolts are history (probably because of the price of brass) and none are available any more. Even for the 1377 they only have a few left. What you will get instead is a far less attractive (in my opinion) black steel bolt with rounded hexagonal handle. She says the brass bolt for the 1377 will not fit the 2300.

    You can see the standard 2300T with black bolt here.

    -AlanL


  17. AlanL

    How does the 2300 shoot? Have you found its favorite pellet yet? When's that HW30S gonna get there? Dang!

    Good work getting the Chief of the Tech department to take an interest in your 54. That is quite a coup. I would have been connected to the pasty-faced, mealy-mouthed, pencil-necked geek with an attitude–who worked in the mailroom, or so goes most of my experience with customer "service", (PA excluded) I don't suppose you told Mr. Geiter about your Popeye-like forearms?;^)

    To All: Is it just me, or has the Yellow and all associated forums been down quite awhile? I need my fix man! I'm jonesin'.


  18. Thanks to all who have offered me advice. I took the XT out today and put about 60 rounds through it.

    Shot up two 6" Shoot-N-C targets at 25 yds. Tried to concentrate on hold and breathing. Was shooting into the wind, about 15mph.

    No stringing, but all my hits wound up in the left side of the target, both times. I had my scope adjusted all the way to the right, but still had to use "Kentucky windage" to put anything into the ten ring.

    When I checked my breech seal, it looked like it was a bit uneven and did not project much beyond its groove. I am going to try shimming it. I'm also going to dismount my scope, reset my turret adjustments to 50% apiece, and try again. This gun used to shoot much better than it is doing now. I have some JB Non-embedding bore paste on order at a local gun shop.
    Maybe a barrel cleaning will help.

    Interesting comments about the gun shops. The gun shop I have been dealing with locally here carries no airguns or airgun supplies at all. One of the workers there told me this is intentional "so we won't have kids hanging around here". There always seems to be plenty of people in the store, apparently a group of buddies that like guns and like to hang out together. What would be typical in a small city.

    There is another gun store here that does carry some airguns and supplies, but they have recently re-opened and I haven't been there yet. I did go to a local gun show Saturday and talked with the owner.

    We don't seem to have a group of "skinhead" types here. Almost everyone is disgusted with the present Federal Administration, no matter what kind of store you pick.
    We are thirty miles north of the Mexican border and most of us are quite fed up with the inaction of the Federal Government in securing the border. Here it is not a hypothetical problem. Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas have all appealed to the Feds for more border security, but the administration refuses to act. Last week a rancher in Arizona was killed, tracks leading back to the fence. I expect the Arizona NG to be called out by the Governor, but the state cannot afford to keep them there. Ditto for NM and Texas.

    I'm glad and relieved to hear Tom is off the respirator. Now, Edith needs a rest. God bless you all.

    Les

    WV: taxiagui: a boat that takes you places for a fare.



  19. AlanL
    Brass bolt and Black Steel bolt. I noticed that with my 2240. It came stock with brass, when I ordered the longer steel breech it included the black steel rounded hex handle. I agree the brass looks nicer.
    rikib


  20. Slinging Lead,

    Today must be my lucky day. After a long time on hold waiting for the customer service dept, none other than Glenn himself picked up the phone. Probably won't happen again. But he does take my calls if I ask for him by name.

    Pyramyd did something odd with my 350. Instead of having their tech department check out the cocking effort on it like I asked, they simply packed it up and shipped it back to Umarex and refunded my account. Not at all what I had wanted. But what the heck, rather than argue with them I just went ahead and ordered another one! It should be coming in almost simultaneously with the HW30S, so I'll have plenty to entertain me and satisfy my fix while Umarex plays with my 54.

    The 2300 shoots sweet. I'm not getting 40 shots per cartridge, maybe only 25 at full power. Thereafter the power drops off slowly but steadily. It's actually fun fooling with the elevation arc of each shot to still try and get the pellet to hit the bull. After a while, when the shots quit penetrating my fiberboard backstop I give up and change the cartridge. I suppose letting the cartridge and gun sit in the sun for 10 minutes might help some, but that's a cheap trick only good for one or two more shots. I must say, CO2 sure beats humping and pumping the 1377 every time… oh no, I'm creeping ever closer to PCP! Resist! Resist!!

    The LPA MIM rear sight has a notch that is much too wide for the itty-bitty front sight post that they put on the muzzle brake, so aiming is very much a matter of great care. The two white dots on the rear sight are useless. Just a pretty decoration. The windage adjustment screw is also less responsive than I had hoped. It clicks but the sight doesn't move unless you help it along with your thumb. Weird.

    I will contact crooked barn and see if they have a brass bolt– thanks for the lead.

    Oh well, off to play bridge with my parents, won't be back on the blog til late. Wish me luck– my 88-year-old father usually wipes the table with me. Both my parents were great players in their hey-day.

    -AlanL


  21. It's Monday night, I'm sitting in Tom's hospital room and discovered something during my earlier visit. Tom needs to be entertained. So, I brought his computer, some favorite videos that he can watch while I sit here & do tomorrow's blog on my computer!

    He's greatly improved because he's got something exciting to do & happy stuff is happening instead of just blips on a machine, alarm bells and people poking/sticking him. Sometimes, you just need to find motivation :-)

    Edith


  22. Edith,

    You should have brought him an airgun! Been telling you for days!! ;-)

    Very very pleased Tom is awake and alert enough to take an interest in his surroundings and enjoy your company. We all can't wait to have him back on his feet and actively with us again. Please convey my best wishes to him. Were it not for his tireless answering of questions and encouragement I might not still be with this hobby today.

    -AlanL
    WV: "bless" believe it or not! Amen to that!


  23. rikib

    The bolt handle is threaded. Have you tried unscrewing the brass bolt handle from your old breech and screwing it into the new bolt? I haven't tried it myself, but I don't see why the threads would be any different.

    I like the black bolt handle that came with my steel breech because it suits the tactical look of my 1377. Go ahead and do your breech swap. Eat a microwave burrito first, and no one will question why you have been in the bathroom for 30 minutes!

    If you are the slightest bit nervous about it this process, read this DIY written by frequent contributor and gunsmith extraordinaire derrick38:

    http://anotherairgunblog.blogspot.com/2009/03/derricks-22xx-steel-breech-install.html

    This article addresses everything you will encounter, simplifies without being condescending, and lays out every single step with photos. It doesn't get any better than this.

    Do it now.


  24. Edith,

    Hospitals are slowly coming around to the utility of providing in-room internet access. It really helps pass the time and lets you feel productive, whether that's by writing a blog posting or by researching second opinions of treatment.

    It's the helpless feeling when sitting with nothing to do and nowhere to go that makes hospital stays such a chore in even the best of circumstances. Well, that and the continual interruptions. Why doctors and nurses haven't figured out that sleep deprivation has adverse effects on recovery, I'll never understand.

    Glad to hear the good news.

    Bobby


  25. Edith,
    Thanks for keeping us caught up with Tom's status and the extra work you have been doing to keep things humming.

    Tell Tom we miss him, but to make sure he's ready before going whole hog.


  26. Matt,
    I've heard that joke about several places, including the UK:). I have some others that Edith would delete me for telling:). If your brother is still in Lexington and you come out this way for a visit, feel free to let me know — I have an excursion you might enjoy, although if that's the brother with the anti-gun wife, it might have to be a covert op:).
    I'm really intrigued by the gun store culture, which seems separate from the shooting culture, at least in my circles.
    Daniel Boone — that's a credential.


  27. AlanL,

    Tell us what Glenn finds out about your 54. I'm holding out for that gun as a great design. I also had great customer service from Umarex in dealing with a damaged Walther Nighthawk. Their receptionists had Southern accents that made them all sound like Renee Zellweger. I'm almost tempted to sabotage a few more guns….

    Yes, it would be a mistake to overgeneralize about gunstores. In one I was served by a slim young man in a black outfit with combat boots and a kind of stormtrooper hat. In talking to him, it became apparent that he was obviously gay. Then while helping other customers pick out targets for the indoor range, he told someone, "I wish there was a silhouette of Sean Penn. I would LOVE to see people shoot at that commie!" Hm. As a matter of fact, he gave me valuable information about disassembling a 1911 which he wasn't required to do, but he was a little too off the wall for me to seek out again.

    Edith, motivation is key for the institutionalized. I saw that while volunteering in nursing homes. The ones who made out best were very particular about their hairstyle appointments while others just laid about and let their appearance go to pot. Make sure to tell Tom the toothpaste joke. :-) While in the hospital, my Dad was reading all the time. In fact, he made it halfway through Cormac McCarthy's No Country For Old Men until he realized that he had read it before.

    Matt61


  28. AlanL, I'm not surprised that Glenn answered the phone. I've talked or emailed him dozens of times, never got the impression that he was too big to talk to a lowly customer.


  29. AlanL

    Do not resist the PCP.

    In all seriousness, get a Marauder. Get it over with. It is so incredibly accurate, and quiet, and powerful– did I say accurate? And a (well indexed) repeater to boot. You will not regret it. And you know they are coming out with the .25 caliber this summer?;^)

    You can buy a more accurate PCP, but you will have to spend about double to get it. If tuned by Greg Davis however…



  30. BG_Farmer,

    So Kentuckians have been maligned with the toothpaste joke. :-) My Dad recently read a biography about Daniel Boone. Quite a guy. He apparently had a very good relationship with his wife, Rebecca Boone, with lots of kids, but he also felt the need to go rambling off in the woods for years at a time. When he came back after one trip, he found Rebecca with a new toddler. This one was from his brother because, according to Rebecca, he looked so much like Daniel. But Daniel seems to have been very understanding.

    Thanks for the invite. As a matter of fact, I'm off to Lexington in mid-May to visit my brother. I have only one who is married to the anti-gun wife. The bigger problem, though, is that I am in the doghouse for repeated failure to visit as promised. I had to back out of a trip last fall, and my nieces are apparently still asking why Uncle Matt missed the plane out to Hawaii to see them in February. This will be a quick insertion and extraction of a few days to establish my bona fides, demonstrate my skill with an rc helicopter, and try my brother's version of the James Bond martini. However, I hope to come out more regularly to be a good uncle, and then maybe I can see your surprise.

    Matt61


  31. Slinging Lead
    Thanks for that link (derrick38 thanks for writing it). Very detailed, I'll have my netbook beside me when I do the swap. Thanks again!
    rikib



  32. Not wishing to detract from all of the attention for an ill forum leader, may I inquire about shipping methods used by you?

    I have completed a deal for a Diana 45 and a Diana 35 that are in Ohio. I'm in east Texas, so there is an obvious needed for decent packaging that UPS will have difficulties in destroying. My suggestion was to use two boxes fit end to end, with copious quantities of tape and bubble wrap around the two guns.

    Since the original boxes have been history for years, it's the best I can think of.

    Does anyone have additional ideas?


  33. I use a very light hold on my Quest 800. Two fingers facing one another. One on the forstock and one near the trigger. I have new trigger installed that breaks under 2 lbs, so I just roll my finger back to fire. Sure the air rifle jumps a little and goes where it wants, but the pellet always seems to hit it's mark.

    In case BB misses his familiar sounds…beep…….beep…..beep…..beep…..beep…..beep…

    just kidding…we really know what you're thinking….

    http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3894726/iron_man_2_movie_trailer/


  34. AlanL,
    The bolts are different between .177 cal and .22 cal Crosmans. Actually, just the nose and o-rings of the bolts are different. The handles are interchangeable–however, if your brass handle/bolt were from a plastic breech, the parts are staked together into one unit. The steel breech requires a 2-piece bolt and handle so those are threaded together. The threads are #8-32 by the way.

    You could drive the brass bolt handle out of the 1377 assembly with a punch then use a thread cutting die to cut the #8-32 threads. In my experience, the black steel handle is a better item. I've sheared the soft brass threads a couple times. The steel handle will also accept a 3/8" open or box end wrench to snug it into the bolt. Do use a medium grade threadlocker like Loctite 242 on the threads.

    HTH


  35. Paul5388,
    try wrapping the gun with a foam packing sheet or bubble wrap then boxing it with crumpled newspapers. The put that into a second, slightly larger box with more crumpled newspapers. Shipping via USPS Priority Mail should run you about half of what Fed Ex will cost and about 1/3 of UPS. Insure for full value and get delivery confirmation. Only downside? The USPS tracking is horrible/nonexistent. Still, I've never lost an item. USPS/Fed Ex and USP stuff all ends up on the same planes anyway.



  36. AlanL,

    I think I figured out what's wrong – the 54 is in fine shape. You, on the other hand, are just too strong for your own good :). I recommend getting a Discovery and SCUBA tank. You'll probably tear the pump apart the first time you go to use it. You can pick a Discovery up used for very attractive prices. SCUBA tanks i Florida have got to be cheap. Then, you can move up to a Maurauder.

    Fred PRoNJ


  37. I hadn't thought about two packages, but UPS will treat those as one package in their billing.

    I've taken too many beatings on USPS insurance to even consider them to be a viable option. OTOH, UPS has been fairly easy to deal with in insurance matters.

    Thanks for the input!

    While I'm at it, let me introduce myself. I retired 4 years ago and draw Social Security, so I've been on this Earth a while.

    I normally use the same screen name and avatar (regimental crest for 112th Armor), which you'll see in varying places.

    My first airgun was one of the first plastic stocked Red Ryders, I think that was 1952 or 1953. I'm trying to remember the containers for BBs during that time and I think there was a cellophane package, a $.05 tube and a $.10 tube. Hurricane Carla claimed that one in 1961. :(

    Many years later, I graduated to a Beeman that was supposed to be a Diana 45. I guess that familiarity played a part in acquiring another one.

    Currently, I only have a newer issue Red Ryder and a cheapo Chinese under lever and two Dianas in route.


  38. Paul5388,

    a couple of months ago, BB was fascinated with the packaging job done by one of the blog members who sent him a Haenel to test. Here's the URL:

    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2009/03/haenel-model-1-part-1-compulsive-airgun.html

    What the gentleman did was to use some hard foam insulation board, cut outlines for the stock and action, and insert them. He then covered both sides with two more insulation boards and packaged in cardboard, making his own creases to make his own box!

    A bit over the top but this just goes to show you what some folks will do. Good luck.

    Fred PRoNJ


  39. Paul5388,

    Everyone has given you excellent advice on package the guns for shipment. The only thing that I would add is to be sure that you separate the stock from the action and pack them separately in the same box. This will drastically reduce the chance of damage during shipping. Not to mention that it allows you pack them into a more compact package, which should save you some money as well.

    BTW, FedEx does fly USPS packages on their planes, but they most definitely do not carry UPS packages. And no FedEx packages travel on UPS planes.



  40. hey bb im interested in buying him a pcp rifle, ive been looking at the sumatra 2500 carbine, would you reccomend .25 or .22 from target practice, plinking and the occasional raccoon, woodchuck or fox sized animal. In addition do you think I can handle pumping 3000 psi? im 140 llbs 5'7", and extremely fit


  41. Slinging Lead,

    Marauder, huh? Yes, I hear that a lot. But… I've decided that if I ever do get into PCP, I will jump in with both feet and go all out with an AA S-410. If I don't get that one, Wacky Wayne will criticize me and I couldn't live with that! ;-)

    One thing I forgot to mention on the 2300 is that I turned the trigger pull almost all the way down and lubricated everything with Ballistol. As it came from the shop the trigger did not feel smooth and was a bit heavy. Now I like it better, but it's not butter. Derrick38, thanks for your advice– I think I will leave the steel bolt handle alone as I do like the all-black look too.

    Fred,

    You are totally wrong about me– I think Slinging Lead has put the wrong idea into y'all's heads with my Popeye arms– true, I'm a millwright, but in fact all the extra circumference on my arms is nothing but padding of the hard to get rid of kind, nothing that helps me pull on that lever!

    Paul5388,

    Hurricane Carla in 1961, huh? That puts you on the Southeastern Texas coast. Too bad about your Red Ryder.

    I will be shipping my Diana 54 back to Umarex via UPS. In thirty years of dealing with them on a daily basis we have never lost a package and very rarely ever had damage. I keep the long cartons that Pyramyd sends me my guns in and cut them down to size as needed. I will simply wrap my gun fairly tightly in not less than 10 layers of the bubble wrap (of the little bubble kind), then box it in a heavy carton, and slip that carton inside of the bigger Pyramyd carton. I stuff the crevices with shredded paper or crumpled newspaper, and that's it. Heavy as heck, but I want my gun to get there the way I sent it. I will not use the environmentally unfriendly styrofoam peanuts, but I do like the environmentally friendly popcorn or potato starch peanuts. The two downsides to the latter are that they're more expensive and will melt away if they get wet.

    May I ask which two Dianas you have on the way?

    -AlanL


  42. Jt,I don't think they are ready for Larry's Pistol&Pawn!How about Madison Guns on the Parkway?5 condescending guys and 25 overpriced guns under glass!
    For all,my Quackenbush .457 LA just came this evening.It's a beaut~Unfortunately the 500 asst. slugs were shipped separately and are 2 days out…..cannot wait.I will take it to Larry's indoor range just to freak them out.Outgunned by an airgun!That ought to ruffle some feathers.
    PS.500 "pellets" weighs 26Lbs!



  43. JustinA,if you go with .22 pellets will be cheaper….occational hunting would be fine..25 is good for dedicated hunting but expensive for plinking.I think 3,000psi might be hard because I have seen a 160lb guy lift off the ground at 2,500psi with my Airforce pump….see what others say.



  44. FrankB,

    Now see, if you had my silent trap you could practice at home first and make sure you knock their socks off before you head for that range.

    So how deep into duct seal do you estimate one of those slugs will penetrate? What's the velocity you anticipate? Will you get 700 fps?

    At 26 lbs/500 = 0.052 lbs per pellet × 7000 grains per pound = 364 grains! At 700 fps that yields 396 foot-pounds at the muzzle! Wow!

    On second thought, stay away from my silent trap!

    -AlanL


  45. AlanL,

    They're a 45 and a 35.

    I must not be a discriminating enough shooter to see where the airgun shooting I have done, which was not the artillery hold, has been too shabby.

    Since I'm one of the moderators at http://forums.handloads.com, I have many groups posted, but they have all been shot with powder. That certainly doesn't make me an expert and especially when it comes to airguns.

    I shoot a lot of break action single shots (the cheap H&R variety that I have about 8 of), which are pretty finicky and tend to string vertically. That should prepare me somewhat for the challenges of the break barrel Dianas coming in.

    Thinking back on that Beeman I had, I must have had it in 1985 and before, since I remember shooting it at a trap in my office at the armory. Even at 800 fps it was much more powerful than the old pistol grip Gamo I have (I forgot about that one).

    BTW, it was Lake Jackson (Brazoria County) to be exact. I had joined the Navy and was in San Diego when Carla hit.


  46. AlanL,ponder this…that was an assortment of weights…tops is 515gr.!And the peak energy is a modest 510 Ft.Lbs in stock form.This one has had some tweaking by Bigbore Bob Dean.You can check out my pellet source at "mr.hollowpoint.com".


  47. Justin A.,

    The sumatra 2500 can get your jobs done at closer ranges. If you're fit you can certainly hand pump any pcp to 3,000. You need to use your entire body weight and not overheat the pump. Read this and at the end of the article watch B.B.'s video:

    http://www.pyramydair.com/site/articles/hand-pump/

    I personally would vote for .25 caliber for the game you're planning on taking. I would also vote for a more accurate gun than the sumatra which has been hit and miss. The initial reports on the marauder .25 caliber are very impressive for accuracy and unlike the sumatra it's a very quiet gun without a mod. I don't own a .25 caliber but the marauder will be my first.

    kevin



  48. Paul5388,

    You've recieved a lot of good advice on shipping airguns.

    I'd like to reiterate shipping the guns separately.

    I'd also like to encourage you to ship/receive the original boxes the guns came in since they have collector value to many airgunners.

    Please allow me to add one thing to shipping packaging. Pay special attention to the barrel. Most problem packages I receive have the barrel sticking out of the box. Sometimes this is just a unwarranted fear of other problems during shipping but most times it's an indication that when the box is opened that there are major problems.

    Reinforce the barrel. 8-10 pieces of cardboard cut to fit the end of the box or hardcase that the gun is shipped in isn't too much. The key to packing any gun is to make sure it's overly "cocooned" on all six (6) sides with special emphasis on the barrel end since that's the end that will shift sharply in transit if the gun isn't secured in it's packaging.

    The test is, after you have the gun packaged, shake it violently from side to side and end to end. If you feel any movement, unwrap the gun and start over.

    kevin


  49. After looking back at the animals you want to occasionally hunt,of course Kevin is exactly correct.Please forget I said .22.If it was just squirrels,rats,and rabbits maybe,I don't know what I thought I read….Bedtime for sure!



  50. AlanL,

    You need to polish the edges of the sear and trigger where they contact each other. Also polish the sear where it contacts the hammer. Then a thin film of a light grease will get rid of the creep. Removing the factory trigger spring and replacing it with something lighter will also do wonders. Take the spring with you, you'll find something useful at Ace Hardware.



  51. Desertdweller,

    It's parallax. Shoot the level distance to the target. Do not use any elevation.

    B.B. Pelletier

    Note: This is Edith typing, but Tom is dictating answers from his hospital room.


  52. Justin A.

    Yes, you can handle pumping without a problem, but remember that with a PCP, a rifle barrel is always more efficient than a carbine barrel. Why throw away power? Soon, the .25 may be the best; but, till I test the new .25 Premier pellet, I can't recommend it. The .22 will serve you for the animals you mentioned.

    B.B. Pelletier


  53. Derrick,

    I just noticed my answer to you last night didn't get posted. I do have a Dremel and the felt bob. Don't have any polishing compound though. Which one do you recommend? As for a light grease, will white lithium do?

    Thanks,
    AlanL


  54. AlanL,

    Use toothpaste if you don't have any polishing compound. Most toothpastes contain a mild abrasive and it works well to polish with.

    kevin



  55. totally off topic….
    Well I have in my possession 2 Crosman Storm XT's
    one is a friend of mine's and the other is my baby complete with camo(did the camo my self from CamoClad.com cheap and easy)
    My question is Will a Busted Spring cause it not to cock ?
    I plan on replacing the Springs in both my storm this is going to be the 2nd spring and seal job
    I am checking on the other spring mentioned the Jim Maccari E3650 spring for mine
    I would have liked to go nitro piston with this but unfortunate they will not work with the crosman storm XT so I'll just save my peanuts and go buy a nitro for colder weather
    As for lubing the Chamber?Go to Pyramid Air and get the RWS Chamber lube! total cost will be 15 bucks however its worth it!
    that small bottle will last a long time as you ONLY need 2 drops !
    thanks every one for there Insight
    I pray for Toms Speedy Recovery!
    Also Thanks to Mr.B for giving me the heads up about posting here instead of posting on the older post


  56. Dhpp, the most recent blog is at pyramydair.com/blog. More people over there than at an older one like this…

    What's the XT doing? Are you able to pull the barrel all the way back but the sear won't catch? Or can't you pull the barrel back far enough?


  57. on my friends Crosman Storm XT his will pull back but wont latch the spring broke at the front down where spring meets piston
    mine? it lost a lot of velocity instead of the Twang we all know it sounds like a quiet poof
    I heard that once before when the 1st spring broke
    when cocking mine I have to give it a little more oomph to get it to catch
    I talked to crosman it will cost me 10 bucks per set that is seal and spring
    how ever what if i do all this happy hoorah and it still don't cock right?


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