by B.B. Pelletier
Update on Tom/B.B.: Progress is very good. I don’t have a definite date for him to come home. His pancreas is still somewhat inflamed, but nothing like it was before. So, he has to wait a little while before he has his gallbladder removed, which is an outpatient procedure.
Now, on to today’s blog.
Here’s an article about a highly collectible gun. This originally appeared in Airgun Revue #2, which was published in 1998.
The Crosman Town & Country is a short pneumatic rifle that’s very robust. The wood stock has some fullness to it.
Many companies took the model name Town & Country for their top-of-the-line models during the ’40s and ’50s, but I suppose it was the Chrysler Corporation that made it the most memorable with their wood-sided station wagons. The name bespoke quality and a wealth that was measured more by comfort and rural gentility than by mere money. When I hear the name Town & Country, I immediately get an image of the movie White Christmas, with der Bingle and his Broadway troupe helping General Waverly fill his inn. That’s a nice image, so the name Town & Country has always meant something extra special and nice to me.
The Crosman Corporation made its Town & Country pneumatic air rifle from 1948 until some time in the early 1950s. It was their first really new design for pneumatic rifles since the 100-series guns came into being in 1924. And, although the flavor of the Town & Country styling hung around in the Crosman line for decades, the model was quite short-lived. Hence, it’s somewhat scarce. And, being scarce, it has collector value well above contemporary Crosman guns.
The T&C came in both .177 and .22, but the latter was by far the more popular caliber in the U.S., at that time. As a consequence, the .177 caliber model 107 is quite a bit harder to find than the .22 caliber model 108. A 107 will often bring $400 to $500 when in excellent condition, compared to $300 to $350 for its big brother. This trend is actually common to all the Crosman rifles produced during this era–the .177 seems to bring a little more than the .22. It holds for some vintage Crosman pistols, as well, but not for others. Go figure!
The action also has some mass–as if to suggest the lines of the Sheridan Supergrade.
I jumped at the chance to test a model 108 T&C because of all the mystique that has been built up about it. Certainly, the gun has some unique features worthy of examination on its own merits, but the special aura of its rarity tends to push all that aside. Then, there’s the sheer physical size of the gun. Although not overly long, the T&C is very thick and robust, which tends to convey a feeling of power. Like the Sheridan Supergrade, the T&C has a more well-proportioned stock than the air rifles that followed it. It also has a larger action, almost as if to suggest a Supergrade, though the resemblance ends there.
With the tall “town” sight up, the rifle shoots low–for close-up shots.
The knurled nut twists out, freeing the tall sight to pivot to the right…
…where it reveals the short “country” sight for longer ranges.
The front sight is certainly the most interesting single feature of the gun, because there are really TWO front sight blades instead of one! One for town, and the other for the country. To change blades, the shooter loosens a jamb nut with fine threads in front of the fixed low front sight blade. This allows the sight to spring forward and unlocks the taller blade in the rear, which can then be rotated to the right and locked against the stock. With the short front blade revealed, the rifle is suited to the longer ranges of the country.
Not only is there an aperture sight, above it there’s an open notch. For people who want it all!
The rear sight is almost as curious as the front. It’s an adjustable peep that slides in a vertical slot along the left side of the receiver. A coin-slotted knurled screw provides a friction stop, and there are unnumbered index lines along the sight slide for reference. An L-shaped crosspiece at the top has an elongated slot in which the knurled aperture adjusts, but the really unique feature of this sight is that there is a notch above the peep to allow for rapid open sighting. The T&C isn’t the only air rifle to have this feature, but it’s still very different from sights normally found on airguns.
As robust as the stock appears, the pump lever is surprisingly short. It reminds me more of the little model 760 that came a decade later than it does a 100-series pneumatic that was its immediate predecessor. The short throw of the lever makes for easy pump strokes, so you can quickly build up to the recommended 8-10 pump maximum; but when you do, the rifle doesn’t have the same power as other Crosman pneumatics–at least the one I tested didn’t. In a moment, I’ll tell you why I believe this is so; but now, let’s look at the performance:
66 degrees F, point-blank range
Crosman Premier–14.3 grains
Muzzle energy….6.52 ft. lbs.
Muzzle energy….8.56 ft. lbs.
RWS Superdome–14.5 grains
Muzzle energy….6.04 ft. lbs.
RWS Superpoint–14.5 grains
Muzzle energy….8.12 ft. lbs.
These velocity figures seem low, when other Crosman pneumatics deliver 12 foot-pounds and often more. I believe the reason for this is the method of breech sealing employed by the T&C. On the rear of the bolt, a protruding pin slips into a cam slot in the rear of the receiver when the bolt is rotated closed. As this pin engages the cam, it forces the ground bolt face forward into a mating section of the breech. In other words, the T&C seals with a metal-to-metal contact at the bolt/barrel interface. Now, that fact, by itself, is nothing new to airgunning. Airgun makers have been using this design for some time. But to effect a good seal this way, both pieces of metal must be ground to fit, and the cam must be a positive one; it has to hold the bolt in place. On the rifle I tested, the cam was so steep that the bolt could not help but rotate open slightly under the force of the air blast. In short, it wouldn’t stay closed.
I noticed a puff of air around my right hand every time the rifle fired, which I initially blamed on the recent resealing job my test rifle had gotten before the test. Then, I examined the bolt lockup more closely and discovered that the real problem was a loose bolt seal. No matter how hard I closed the bolt, that steep cam slot invited it to spring back just enough to exhaust some air. The problem was solved by manually holding the bolt closed with the thumb of my shooting hand as I pulled the trigger. There was still a small puff of air, but it was greatly diminished from what it had been. A real fanatic might have used some automotive valve-grinding compound to hand-lap the front of the bolt into the rear of the barrel; but this wasn’t my rifle, so I left it at that.
Hobby pellets grouped okay 10 meters, but with one flyer.
Premiers worked good, too, but had the same problem with flyers.
Accuracy wasn’t bad, but it also wasn’t that great when compared to what other vintage Crosman rifles can do. RWS Hobbys were the best, shooting a dime-sized group of five off a rest at 10 meters. Five Premiers went into a slightly larger hole, but both pellets shot groups with a tight cluster of four plus one flyer. Surprisingly, the best accuracy with both pellets was at a full eight pumps. Usually, I’ve found that pneumatics prefer the middle of their power range. Perhaps, the T&C, being so tame, is better able to handle pellets at its top power.
So, if you’re thinking about adding a T&C to your airgun collection, do it for the nostalgia rather than the power potential.
140 thoughts on “Crosman’s Town & Country”
It's great that Tom is doing better!
Edith, you are a wonderful woman and doing a great job with this blog. Tom is a very lucky man, and I bet he knows it!
Keep up the good work and give Tom our best.
Did you mean his gall bladder is still inflamed? Cause I sure hope they are not going to take out his pancreas!
And what ever decision you and Tom make about the show, I will still be praying for you each day!
I see that I should have said his gallbladder will be removed. Wrote it too late at night 🙂 I'll edit it so it won't confuse anyone else. Thanks!
My daughters first grade class has been talking about Good Friday and Easter for the past few weeks.
I went to pick her up at school earlier this week and overheard two of her classmates discussing these important days.
One litle boy said his birthday was on the same day as when Jesus died. The other little boy sadly said, "I didn't know Jesus was dead."
After a thoughtful pause and with a perplexed look the first boy said, "I don't think he is yet because it's not my birthday yet."
Update on my quest to get a .22 rimfire.
The fellow who was interested in selling to my buddy apparently got cold feet but deal isn't dead yet per my buddy. I don't have to pull the trigger till July (son's b-day). Anyhow, glad BB is heading in right direction.
Holy moly! I haven't been able to get online for a few days and I can hardly believe the misfortune that has beleaguered you and Tom. I'm so very sorry that you've both been subjected to such ghastly circumstances. I hope the road to Tom's recovery is more like a well-maintained interstate, and I hope his destination is just off the next exit.
Very eloquent and appropriate comment about the Gaylord family privacy yesterday. Thank you.
Ok, back to airguns. Does anyone have any experience with the new H&N Baracuda Hunters yet? There's only one review on the PA website, and I'm really curious about longer range (>40 yards) accuracy. Thanks.
Questions about Crosman 2300:
I just received my Crosman Custom 2300 with 10.1" LW barrel (supposedly). I installed the rear LPA sight and proceeded to install my first ever CO2 cartridge, with the mandatory drop of Pellgun oil on the tip, of course. The instructions said something about a rubber o-ring on the threaded cap of the CO2 chamber, but my cap had none. Is it supposed to?
When I screwed the cap on, I did not hear any hiss. I had expected to feel or hear the CO2 cartridge being punctured and the gas filling the chamber. I thought maybe I hadn't tightened the cap enough so I took my hurricane shutter screw driver, which has a large flat blade, spring loaded within a guide cylinder, and this fit the groove on the cap screw like it was made for it. This allowed me to get another quarter turn out of the cap screw, but now I worry whether I overtightened it. Still no hiss.
What the heck, let's try shooting the darn thing. First shot: Nothing happened. Pellet stayed in the barrel. Second shot. Nothing. What the…? Then I tried cocking the pistol a third time and this time, when I least expected it, bang!- pellet shoots out full force. Of course, I was not aiming at my target anymore because I had given up hope. I will not tell you what unintended target now has a big dent in it. So I learned a very valuable safety lesson, but still have a lot of doubts. Is it normal for a new CO2 cartridge to only fire a pellet on the third go? How can I tell if I really got the Lothar Walther barrel and not the Crosman barrel?
Some CO2 guns don't have a hiss. Some of them actually puncture with the first shot. I found this out about 2 weeks ago, as Tom is working on a project where a cartridge didn't give out that hiss, but it did fire a shot when he pulled the trigger. I don't know why yours decided to load the CO2 on the third shot, but all my not be lost. The tightening/over-tightening may have delayed your shot from the first to the third. But that's just a guess.
That's the extent of my knowledge on this particular subject.
AlanL; That should not happen with any CO2 airgun. I might give it one more chance then it would be back to Crosman. Try to tightening it without the screw driver. I would think it is designed that way unless the manual states something else.
I've been thinking about that comment you made about the Gaylord's privacy. I know that was directed at me, for my perhaps overly dire warning against Tom attending the Arkansas show, for fear that he might overextend himself. At the time I wrote that I had thought the show was somewhat sooner than the end of April, by which time Tom hopefully should be more than up to it.
Anyway, by sharing Tom's travails with us in this forum, for which we are all grateful to Edith, she has invited us to likewise share our feelings with her. I believe Tom Gaylord is a little bit like a "National Treasure of Airgunning", by which I mean that through this blog he belongs a little bit to all of us, and like an extended family, we openly share our thoughts and concerns for him. Perhaps I was too dire in my concern for his well being, but I take none of it back. I will say only now, that if both Tom and Edith objectively feel he is up to it when the time comes, then by all means go, and let him do all he can do.
Thanks for your feedback on my Crosman. I have now shot 12 more pellets through it, and every one shoots as it should. I'm still adjusting the sights. I will call Crosman on Monday and see what they say about the o-ring and loading the cartridge. Meanwhile, does anybody know how to distinguish the 10.1" LW barrel from the regular Crosman barrel on these custom shop pistols?
My comment was not directed at you but rather a general perspective.
I share your thoughts and concerns for our long distance friends The Gaylords.
I also consider you an airgunning friend primarily because of your passions.
AlanL & Mike,
I just read the loading instructions in the 2300S manual, and it does not say you will have a hiss. It tells you how far to tighten the cap & that the gun should be unloaded! In fact, it tells you exactly what I said in my first response…you have to shoot the gun to make it pierce the CO2 cartridge.
Click here to download the manual from Pyramyd Air's site. On page 1 of the manual, scroll down to the red "WARNING" box on the left side. Read the whole thing 🙂
I forgot to switch my previous answer's identity to my own. Sorry!
I can only imagine what's going on inside you.
I'd be crazy and certainly not able to cope as well as you.
Your a mountain of strength.
I'm so pleased to see the concern from our community of bloggers, for Tom's health, but I also share Kevin's concern for your privacy and ability to make decisions without our input.
Especially, if the input in anyway makes you feel bad. There are enough feelings and worries in your head without any more!
I know for sure that is not anyone's intention, but it can come off that way.. it's very, very tricky territory.
We all just care so deeply for you and Tom, that we just can't hold it in!
Thanks for putting up with our emotional growth and learning of communication skills…. and sticking with us in these very scary times.
Wacky Wayne, Match Director, Ashland Air Rifle Range
My 2300 usually needs to be fired twice to get up to full power. Looks like a common thing.
Don't overtighten the cart reatining cap. Finger tight should be good enough.
LW barrels are 12 groove, with lands and grooves about equal in width. They bite hard into pellets.
When installing a new Co2 Cartridge, I sometimes will shoot my Co2 gun with no pellet, then tighen the cap a little then repeat until I hear it pop. Perhaps you need to shoot twice and tighten a little and repeat until it pops.
Sometimes it's hard to tell with some guns about having a L/W barrel. Most likely your groups will look like this with a non L/W barrel:
with a L/W barrel:
There a are few more ways to tell…a L/W barrel with leave a pellet with good even grooves on the pellet. Also, the barrel would most likely be choked.
But shooting them is the funnest way to find out.
with my 2240 whenever I put in a new cartridge I fire it twice at the ground with no pellet. You can definitely hear a difference in power. Maybe I'm not supposed to do this but it works for me.
Thanks very much for the point to the online manual. Incredibly, I had missed that paragraph, even though I thought I had read the whole thing. Probably because I have to hold a magnifier to do it! The cool thing about a PDF is I can magnify heck out of it and read comfortably.
Thanks. I learned the Crosman barrel has ten lands and grooves, the LW 12, as you said. Trouble is, I got the fat muzzle brake for it, so it's hard to see inside the muzzle to count the grooves. Hey wait! Now there's the perfect use for that new tac light- shine it down the barrel from the breech!
Unfortunately, my groups always look like corn in the dust after the hens are done pecking through them– all over the place. Lothar Walther would be highly embarrassed to have it known my pellets came from one of their barrels, so that's no good indication for me, unless I get real good… maybe in my next life!
Thanks everybody for your help. Now it's time to put the guns away and go play with Uncle Sam's Form 1040– maybe I'll have to sell all my guns again.
Danielle's leg fully recovered now?
When you see B.B. again today, please give him my best. (Don't forget to take that air pistol so he can pop away at the IV bags!)
You are doing a magnificent job maintaining this blog. It is the first site I go to on the computer.
My prayers go out to both you and Tom.
I just wanted you to know I appreciate your efforts.
WV: snerba. A little country that starts wars.
My sense is that long-range accuracy in airguns is limited by the light weight of pellets which make them susceptible to wind and their low speed which requires an arc to get distance. Assuming a perfectly windless day, you might think that you could sight in to correct for arc but you are letting yourself in for "range-probable error." I think B.B. said that 100 yard shooting was roughly equivalent to 1000 yards with a firearm. I believe someone on the blog reported shooting within 5 inches at 100 yards with the Air Force Talon rifles, so maybe that's a standard to start from.
Edith, I admit I had some trouble identifying with Tom's fighting to get out of his hospital bed the other day. When I've been in hospitals, I've kind of enjoyed taking it easy. But maybe I have found the answer. There's a book called The Long Walk by a Polish guy who was taken prisoner by the Soviet Union at the start of WWII. He was sent to a gulag in Siberia from which he subsequently escaped with a few others and walked to safety in British India going over the Himalayas and hitting 30 miles a day for months on end. (He claims to have seen Big Foot.) Anyway, once he arrived, you would think that he would want to collapse for a year. Instead, medical staff had to restrain him to keep him in bed because his body was so tuned to walking 30 miles a day. Tom's probably been working too hard.
Anyone heard about a new run on .45 ACP ammo? I couldn't find any of my favorite brands at Midway the other day.
Also, I found another indicator of the generally low quality of gun shops. I was hunting for a good one in the Sacramento area, and, according to the online reviews, they're all pretty bad with poor customer service. You wonder how a new person could ever get into guns by themselves.
Sounds like one powerful air-rifle your looking for. Sorry I got no answers I'm new to this. But if it is out there the guys here will know.
I think a Quackenbush 457 may be the answer to your desires.
See this article by Tom Gaylord.
I think Kevin may have had some good luck with MOA shooting at 100 with one or more of his PCP's. The poster "Yrrah" (Harry) on the Yellow forum is, in my opinion, the world leader in long distance air rifles — you might want to check out his posts.
I was happy with my .22LR and bulk ammo to get 2" under "normal" conditions, but no one online seemed to think that is too good:).
In my mind, the conditions have to be perfect (either no wind or very consistent) to make 100 yards satisfying with even a .22LR, so I'm assuming that a pellet rifle is the same or even more so. I believe that a PCP in .25 (or even better — 6mm:)) would with proper pellets (which may not exist at this time) make a very satisfying short range (100-150, possibly 200 yd) benchrest rifle. Just my thoughts.
Sometimes you can push a pellet though a barrel or shoot at low power into something soft or bucket of water and examine the rifling effect on the pellet. If the pellet is marked well by the rifling, it is easier to count the grooves that way.
about Jim Coplen…it took my brain a while to remember where I heard that name before. BB mentioned his name and recommended him for working on airguns….I've seen his name on Daisy's emails about asking Jim or Ann about older parts that are harder to find and they may be able to help. From what I can tell he lives about an hour or so east of me. I will definately have to keep his number hand incase I need it or if Vince is too busy.
BTW..that town and country looks pretty nice….more stout like rimfire and the sights are really interesting.
Well we hope to see Tom again, but only when he feels better. I'm glad to hear that he is improving and that the procedure he has had was a success. When the nurse asks me if I am allergic to anything….I always tell them I'm allegic to pain and big bills.
Thanks Edith for posting articles in Tom's absence and keeping us informed about Tom and airguns. You are a real trooper.
Look for a PCP like the Air Arms S410 or an FX Cyclone in .22 caliber that can give you over 30 ft lbs. Then you need a heavy pellet with a high ballistic coefficient, like the 18 grain JSB’s or 21 grain Kodiaks.
RE: Shooting CO2 gun for max power
I'd assume that the CO2 mixes with some air trapped in the pistol. The air reduces the maximum amount of CO2 that blows through the pistol when the pistol is shot. A couple of shots gets all the air out between the cartridge and the valve so the power goes up.
Danielle's leg is great. She went to physical therapy for 2 or 3 days and on her last visit she told the therapist that she had been jumping rope. That was her last visit to the physical therapist.
Our weather is warming up and she's been riding her bike with her friends.
Thanks for asking.
I completely agree with Volvo's answer to your question.
I spent a lot of time last summer shooting benchrested airguns over long distance. Primarily 107 yards. Shot many 1" groups with an AA S410 rifle. Wind will be your enemy.
If you want sub 2" groups it needs to be a pcp that can shoot 30+ fpe.
Cyclone, rapid, tarantula, royale, air wolf, daystates, and others are reasonably priced and fit this criteria.
I had just ordered 100 shell cases of .45 acp from Midway and there was not problem getting the order filled. I can't help you on any shortage of ammo. I did subsequently have to order an auxiliary case expander (long story short – I hadn't seated the die deep enough to bell the cases to accept the 230 gr bullets with the Lee speed die that I have and all the cases were already primed). I ordered that die from Lee Loading who had the warning on their website that due to the high volume of orders for reloading equipment, they didn't expect to complete my order for 10 days!
Victor,forget the DAQ .457 for long range groups.This is a two shot per fill gun.What you need to concentrate on is consistent velocity over power….for accuracy at distance flight time must remain predictable or at 100 or more yards stringing will result.Makes sense doesn't it?Now factor in the fact that a slower shot is subjected to any wind for slightly longer,and those shots will be left or right that much more!
To reiterate,look for PCP's that give a good shot string with a small velocity deviation from shot to shot.That leaves regulated or tuned guns looking best at 100 yards.Then it is up to you to put in the range time to understand your gun's favorite pellet and the sweet spot in the velocity curve.
In other words I agree with Kevin,who agrees with Volvo:]
Didn't see those responses,busy typing with 1 finger!!!
I am kind of new to shooting pellets, are pellets that contain lead really that dangerous as the warning label says? that they can cause cancer, not to inhale, wash your hands after using them, is it really that bad? It sounds a bit scary lol…I would appreciate your input. Thanks
Chris,lots of things in life do not belong in your mouth.Lots of things require that you wash your hands after handling as well.Don't lick the tin,don't eat the pellets.Keep reading directions,and wash your hands before eating.And of course moving pellets are even worse for you ,so shoot safely!
Chris, "poison's in the portion". Question is – are you absorbing enough lead to be significant?
Washing hands after handling doesn't sound like an onerous precaution. I wash my hands after changing my spark plugs, handling a chainsaw, or going wee-wee. I don't think the issue is injesting lead through the skin. They just don't want you diggin' in to your Kentuck Fried Chicken (finger-lickin' good!) right after spending some quality time with Diana.
As for breathing the dust – unless you're VERY close to the target I can't imagine you'll be doing much of that, either.
If it was REALLY that bad, they'd be recommending gloves and a respirator.
AlanL, and anyone interested in Crosman 2300's, 2240's, 2250's, 2260's…
When you install the new CO2 cartridge in these guns, the act of snugging up the cap does not pierce the cartridge. The purpose is to seat the end of the cartridge against the valve end seal and get a leak free juncture. It does not take much cap pressure to achieve this. In fact, the correct cap tightening pressure is the least amount that will achieve a seal. This preserves the seal life.
Cocking and firing the gun causes the hammer to strike the valve stem and drive it's pointed end forward–this is what actually pierces the CO2 cartridge. Sometimes it takes two tries to punch the hole open. If, after two tries it's still not working, snug the cap down a bit more and try again.
You really cannot tighten the cap enough to pierce the cartridge no maker how much you horse it since the sharp piercing needle is recessed in the valve and only protrudes when struck by the hammer. Sort of works like a .45 auto firing pin.
Anyway, the gas tube on these guns is never pressurized. In fact, the tube isn't even airtight. The pressure is contained solely within the CO2 cartridge and inside the valve itself. This is why AlanL's 2300 doesn't have a n o-ringed cap. Doesn't need one.
Only if the gun is modified to "bulk fill" is the tube pressurized–and then it has to be modified first to make it into a pressure vessel.
Many of the vintage Crosman guns like the 150, 160, 180, 600, MK 1 and 2 seal the CO2 inside the tube itself. These old guns can be "bulked" by simply adding a cap with a valve that accepts a filling tank. These guns need o-ringed caps.
There's a lot of good info on this site about lead and potential toxic affect. Use the search box on the right side of this page to retrieve many of the discussions on the subject.
The short version is that lead pellets are the least of your worries in our lead filled environment especially if you're an adult. Kids bodies can't excrete/expel lead as efficiently as adults.
The longer version.
Lead is removed from the body all the time but yes we do retain some, however if you don't smoke and drink "bad" water, eat chocolate, etc…you should be better off. Here is part of an article from:
Usual Human Lead Exposure: Lead has no beneficial effect in animal tissues. Average daily intake of lead by general population of 0.4 mg./person/day. Ingested lead varies from 0.1 to 3 mg/day, while inhaled lead average .01 to .09 mg/day. If you dont take in over 0.6 mg of lead per day by mouth, it will not be dangerous, as lead excretion will balance lead intake. Lead is excreted in urine, feces and sweat.
Physiology of Lead in Body
Particles 0.5 microns reach alveoli and 30-50% is absorbed from lungs. If lead at .15 mg/meter3 in air is inhaled, those at or below .05 microns in diameter will plateau in body fluids about 8 months later if inhaled daily with 25-30 mg of lead retained. Ash from a cigarette contains 14 mcgm of lead; cigarette smoke itself = 0.5 mcgm. 8 mg of lead is absorbed per year from the lungs.
Average individual swallows 300 micrograms of lead per day. Only 10% of this is absorbed into the body. Lead is in water, in ribs, cocoa, ground corn or corn starch, etc. A child may absorb 50% of ingested lead. Increasing lead intake is followed by increased lead burden in the body – a cumulative effect with increasing toxicity. Low iron, calcium, and zinc intake increases lead absorption. Take supplements if you're worried.
Fate in Body
Once absorbed, 90% is stored in bond as lead phosphate. The other 10% is taken up by the red blood cells, the brain, the kidneys, and the liver, where toxic effects develop. Average lead burden in body = 100-400 mg. Accumulation is slow, so that 1.3 mg daily will result in 65 mcmg% in 7-1/2 years, and 3.2 mcmg% daily will give 80 mcmg% in blood in one-half year.
90% put out in stool; 9% in urine; It takes twice as long to excrete lead as to absorb it. The one-half life of lead in body is 2 months. Lead excretion in the urine is usually below 80 mcmg/liter, but if over 180 mcmg per liter, removal from work site desirable.
"Normal" Blood Lead Values
Normal values are 2 – 8 mcmg%
Blood Lead = 15 = abnormal enzymes with FEP
30 = anemia, fatigue, dizziness
40 = ZPP up, wrist drip, conduction time slows, muscle weakness
50 = reproductive effects, anemia, brain injury, libido reduced
80 = abdominal pain, constipation, diarrhea, anorexia, coma, and convulsions
Thanks for your valuable information on the Crosman. My understanding of how it works is much more complete now. I'm on my second cartridge now, and this time only finger tightened it. I sure hope I didn't damage the seal the first time I tightened the cap hard. Thanks again for educating me!
Alan in MI,
I am thinking it might not be your rifle or your hold. It might be the scope??
Try this, tighten the top scope turret 1 full turn, this should lower your POI. Now, using your favorite hold and pellet, try a 10 shot group and see if the grouping is more consistant. If that works, than the turret was too loose, and the horizontal crosshair was boucing around affecting your POI.
Now just put a shim (I like using a piece of plastic bottle cut the width of my scope ring) on the lower part of the front scope ring, under the scope tube, tighten everything down, and resight the scope.
Hope this helps and you can again enjoy the accuracy of your rifle without it driving you crazy.
Jason in MA
Very helpful info, Just wondering about that thank you vince, kevin and frank…BTW Frank I am not a child but thanks anyway.
Of course you're not a child.
You're a responsible adult or you wouldn't be asking such an important question.
I guess I am supposed to apologize for what you think I meant….but I was being sincere and good natured.Hopefully that will suffice. Frank B
The Town and Country is very interesting as well as all the old articles posted this week.
I too am glad to hear Tom is doing better.
If you have some felt cleaning pellets…You will see (may need your magnifier) the grooves & lands on them after shot through the gun.
You are a research animal!
Its ok, I guess I just had a bad day and took it the wrong way. Kevin thanks man.
Take it from me I know sometimes we ask questions that seem important to us, normally we get good honest answers here but an occasional somewhat sarcastic one comes through as well. No harm is normally intended just good humor (at least that's what I believe).
Chris,It's OK,you just made me that much more jealous of Kevin's answer,and I didn't think that was possible!
Can I go again?:]
If responses to some of the things I've said went meant in good humor I'm totally disillusioned.
Thanks, yes that's what happens when your the new guy, you don't yet understand the nature of the regulars on here.
your free to try again lol NO hard feelings.
"weren't" not "went" sorry
They do make lead free pellets, although from what I've gathered they are not to popular on this blog. I use them occasionally and have not experienced an problems (but I'm a real newbie to this).
Chris,The things in my response with the humor removed were:reading cautions is a good habit.Lead handling is like alot of other stuff in life we are exposed to.Done properly,there is nothing to worry about.Pellet safety includes shooting safely.That is all I meant to include in my answer.I respect anyone who reads labels and directions.Things just seem to work for them…..
Ah well, just kinda feelin old I guess, it's 2:15am here and I'm looking at the blog and watching reruns of "criminal minds". Where did time go. I remember Friday/Saturday nights as party time. Now my daughters grown, married and I'm a grandpa. Son grown doing his own thing (what ever that is) his own record label at the moment. Where did all the time go? I'm sure some of you out there know the song "Cats in the Cradle", that's me and my son sorry to say. "Father and Son" is also a good one. Guess I should not listen to them as they bring me down.
Okay forget all that, told you all before I'm Bi-Polar didn't say anything. back to air guns.
When I replace my breech with my new long steel breech there should not be any springs that pop out right? This is on my 2240. Didn't get the damn mower fixed it was being stubborn but hopefully later this a.m. so I can work on the pistol.
There are no springs to worry about when replacing the breech. Its a very easy install. Way easier than fixing damn stubborn mowers.
I hope your right. I think I may have invented some new words trying to get that riding mower fixed today. But I'm not gonna let it beat me just yet. I got bigger tools in my tool box it ain't seen yet, hehe.
Okay guess I gotta call it a night or a morning, depending on how you look at it. 4:10am here watching law & order hope too get some sleep. catcha later.
If you think you are being misunderstood on this blog I think I have the solution. GO TO BED AT A REASONABLE HOUR!!! We'll still be here tomorrow. 🙂
About this T&C blog topic: I have a theory about one of Tom's last comments and maybe it is what Tom was trying to say by saying:
"Usually, I've found that pneumatics prefer the middle of their power range. Perhaps, the T&C, being so tame, is better able to handle pellets at its top power."
He already noted that the gun was leaking and not at full power. My theory is that, because of the leak, at full pump the leaking gun is shooting at middle power of its capability and therefore giving the good groups at "full" (or full pump) power. Sounds to me like the leak is a good thing, then. Don't fool with it.
Kevin 1, Frank 0
wv: sprogra. Isn't that the stuff they put in spaghetti sauce?
Where do you, Jane, Vince and Matt61 meet for breakfast?
I love a good 'long answer'. I could never hold a thought long enough to make a discernible, well structured response.
I good luck with that lawn mower. Reminds me of a joke… I'll save it for ya for when I (If I) ever make that work across America trip.
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I'd be happy with any good answer, but sadly, it appears the denizens of this blog are mostly expert airgunners and technicians but not collectors or historical savants. Both of my "historical" type questions have gone unanswered, to wit:
1) Diana Model 3: Is the Blue Book right, or does it really date from 1903 or earlier?
2) "The Empty House": What was the amazing hand-cranked airgun shown in that episode?
I would ask your question about the Diana Model 3 on the vintage airgun forum. If anyone would know, I think it would be those guys.
(This is the forum that the pics of Frank's gun room are posted on)
Thanks! As usual, you are a veritable fount of useful information and knowledge. :-))
I'll let y'all know what I discover there.
Never saw your questions about the diana 3 and "The empty house".
Glad you're heading to the vintage forum. Mike Driskill and frank are diana experts.
It's my understanding that the diana model 3 dates from 1913. The diana model 1 also dates from 1913 and these were the first guns to have the diana name and diana goddess logo. Prior to that the pre-diana models were marked with a "M&G over an R" for Mayer & Grammelspacher, Rastatt.
I have no idea what "The Empty House" refers to. Sorry.
RE: The Empty House
I assume that the reference is either to the Sherlock Holmes story "The Adventure of the Empty House" or a movie made from the story.
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Thanks. My query on the Diana Model 3 read thusly:
Re: Diana Model 3
On page 5 of the new 120th anniversary Diana product catalogue for 2010 there is a picture of a beautiful rifle they call their Model 3, from 1903.
But in the 7th edition of the Blue Book of Air Guns it says that the Model 3 was only made from 1913 onwards, and the Model 3 that is pictured there looks nothing like the one in the Diana cat.
Is the information in the Blue Book incomplete or incorrect for this model?
"The Empty House" refers to an earlier query as follows:
Do you know what the airgun in Jeremy Brett's portayal of Sherlock Holmes in "The Adventure Of The Empty House" is? (Granada Television, part of BBC, I think.)
The Sherlockian canon has it as being built by Von Herder, a blind German gunsmith. Is this provenance fictional? Is the gun itself fictional? It sure doesn't seem so. The gun in the film was very real, and was assembled prior to shooting by screwing the barrel into the action. It featured a handcrank to pump it up (or draw the piston back?)
Colonel Sebastian Moran turned the crank at least six times I think, and you could clearly hear the pawls clicking. His degree of effort in cranking became visibly greater near the end. Then the gun blew what looked like a .50 caliber hole in…. well, I won't tell you in case you've never seen this episode! A truly amazing airgun that I would really like to know more about.
Wish I could lot of conflicting meds Docs don't know how to sort out yet.
Looks a lot like a Model 3L that was discussed on the vintage. Not a lot of info on these. You may want to contact dianawerk and ask for more information on the gun. I'd believe the 1903 date since diana stated it clearly in their brochure.
Never saw "The Empty House" but crank guns (kurbelspanners) aren't that uncommon.
The PCP guys left out the AirForce Condor. Perhaps Frank B has tried his at 100 yards and will make a comment for you. You also should check out http://talonairgun.com/forum/ and see what those folks say about 100 yard groups.
The PCP guys left out the AirForce Condor. Perhaps Frank B has tried his at 100 yards and will make a comment for you. You also should check out http://talonairgun.com/forum/ and see what those folks say about 100 yard groups.
rikib, just try not to lose the tiny breech screw and also the metal sleeve/tube beween the CO2 chamber and the barrel. Part 5, 35 & 36 on parts diagram.
Thanks for that info, still fighting with my mower at the moment but think I maybe winning, got it moving, taking apart deck next. Is that tiny breech screw to small to have loctite put on it when I re-insert it? If I ever need to remove it again will the loctite cause it to strip?
Don't loctite the screw. It's only a 4-48. The loctite may make it impossible to remove with a 0.050" allen wrench.
thankya, thankya, thankya didn't think I should, just felt I needed some confirmation. Better to ask first than regret it later. Hopefully I'll finish with the mower deck tomorrow and get back to the gun. Although wife already asking about new backdoor (cutting into my gun and bike budget I never win!), but I love her, what can I do.
Thanks for the crank shots (puns intended!)
UPDATE on my RWS Diana Model 54:
I was happily shooting away this afternoon, tweaking my scope and finally, for the first time ever, managed to put 7 Baracudas in the same hole 0.2" c-c at 25 yards. Upon cocking again, suddenly, two thirds of the way through my cocking stroke, the pull rod that I replaced a couple of weeks ago snapped. The bear trap mechanism kicked in instantaneously, and prevented the breech from slamming closed. So I can testify that it really works! Not that my fingers were anywhere near it because I ws still in the process of pulling back the cocking lever. Nevertheless, now I was stuck with a rifle with an open breech under tension that I couldn't finish cocking, nor could I depress the release lever to close the breech again, nor could I proceed to replace the pull rod with the cocking lever 2/3 of the way through its cocking stroke. Solution: I took the rifle off Safe and pulled the trigger. The breech slammed closed and now I could proceed with repairs.
I took out my old pull rod that I had previously damaged and re-straightened, and 5 minutes later I was back in business.
But now very time I cock the rifle I have this insecure feeling that the pull rod might snap at any time. I am… unhappy, not to use a stronger word.
In my humble opinion, the pull rod on the Diana 54 is way too weak. I know it's meant to be weak and flexible, but having it snap when cocking is entirely unacceptable. Umarex is going to hear from me on Monday morning, oh how they are going to hear from me!
I now have no regrets that I returned my Model 52 unopened. Given the current state of their technology, one Diana side cocker is enough for me.
AlanL, I believe your experience is rather unique. I don't think those big sidelevers are known for doing what happened to you. I've certainly not heard of it with any frequency… in fact, I'm not sure I've heard it happening ever before.
On my '52, my cocking link never broke… but the piece that anchors the cocking link to the piston did. But that's not a common failure either…
According to the pull rod replacement instructions that I received from Umarex at the time, it seems that the pull rod, when it does break, does so most often there where it happened to you, at or in the hinge block that connects to the bollard connected to the piston at the breech end. I am surprised that your failure was not of the pull rod itself. Since the bollard that connects to the piston and the hinge block itself couldn't possibly have broken, then your failure must have been the hinge pin that connects the hinge block to the bollard. That's amazing too. My pull rod broke at the cocking lever end, in the middle of the threaded portion where the rod flexes every time you close the lever.
On another note, after I replaced the pull rod and started shooting again, my POI had shifted 6 (six!!) inches north of my POA. I checked every stock screw and scope mount screw and everything was tight. I don't get it. Windage was perfect but my elevation went to shinola. It took me another 30 pellets to get a group inside of a quarter again, but my 0.2" c-c are but a fond memory. I will keep trying tomorrow. Sometimes I feel like my 54 resides in the Twilight Zone.
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Sorry to hear of your misfortune. Hopefully this does not deter your interest in airguns, as far as Springer’s go, I can’t over state the durability and quality of the Weihrauch brand. They are also available as Beeman R series rifles.
Any luck with the 1077W?
Not in the least! I love my Diana 350 Magnum, and… just to please you, I bought the Beeman-branded HW30S two days ago. I had wanted the Weihrauch-branded one, but it disappeared from Pyramyd's site literally hours before I placed my order.
AlanL, not sure what a 'bollard' is, but the part that broke was NOT the hinge pin. It was the part that actually goes into the sliding cylinder and is restrained by an allen screw in the cylinder. I made another part from the shank of a 10mm bolt.
I'm a little confused as to how you managed to release the piston after the rod broke. You said that you "took the rifle off Safe and pulled the trigger. The breech slammed closed and now I could proceed with repairs.". If it was less than 100% cocked and the beartrap was holding the piston, the sear wasn't yet engaged and the trigger wouldn't have been able to release it. The piston would have slammed closed only after you forced the beartrap to disengage.
Did I misunderstand something?
HAPPY EASTER EVERYONE!!!
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Just noticed your comment about "The Long Walk" by Slavomir Rawicz. It's really a great book. Did you know it was written back in 1956?
Try finding a copy of "The Krassin". It's the long out of print story of the zeppelin Italia that crashed at the North Pole and the survivors' incredible struggle.
A bollard is the fat post you see on docks and piers that they tie the ropes around to moor a ship to the pier. I called the thing that connects to the piston a bollard because it reminded me of one shape-wise, and the pull rod anchors to it.
I can't tell you exactly why what happened happened, but after I replaced the pull rod I was able to finish the last third of the cocking stroke (resuming from where it had stopped before) even though I had already slammed the breech closed by pulling the trigger, and then I fired a pellet normally. On the 54 it would appear that you can cock the rifle partially and release it again even though the piston itself remains drawn back to wherever you left it. In fact, while playing with the adjustment of the cocking lever, I had to pull it back and forth several times and it kept clicking freely over the anti-bear trap teeth up to the point where the stroke had stopped.
Why not try it on your 52? For Pete's sake make sure you keep your fingers away from the breech during these crazy experiments!
two talon & ajvenom,
I have accidentally confirmed that my custom Crosman 2300KT does have a Lothar Walther barrel with 12 grooves. While playing around this afternoon, I accidentally loaded a Baracuda pellet backwards into the breech and couldn't get it out. Since I didn't have a ramrod or pipe cleaner (the smoking kind) I decided to shoot the pellet into the swimming pool. I recovered the pellet. Interestingly, it was hardly deformed except for the skirt having flared more that I expected. I was able to count 12 very distinct grooves, both in the head and the lip of the skirt!
I have attempted to use Photobucket for the first time ever, and here's the link to my album of the pellet- hope this works for you!
Baracuda pellet through LW barrel
The only thing that you have said so far that makes any sense is that you broke the cocking rod.
I can't see any way that the other stuff you describe could happen with my 48….. other than the anti-beartrap catching the compression chamber and the part about the POI being off.
If the compression chamber slammed shut, the forward recoil could be enough to screw up the scope or alignment.
Perhaps you are getting frustrated and confused about the facts.
I suggest you replace the cocking rod…because it has already been damaged.
I suggest you replace the anti beartrap…because each tooth on it should hold the compression chamber…it must have been bent.
I was definitely planning on replacing the pull rod (and buying an extra one while I was at it) but hadn't considered the anti-bear trap. That may be beyond my abilities. Every tooth that I can see on it looks fine and the rifle works fine now.
As for recoil, when I pulled the trigger and the breech closed, I felt only a slight recoil. That could be due to the action also sliding on the anti-recoil sledge, but I can't be sure.
There is every possibility about me being confused– I confuse easy! But I stand by what I said. Here's something you can try, to prove me right or wrong: Cock your 48 half way, let it click two or three times. Then disconnect the cocking lever from the pull rod (be careful not to lose the spring clip!) and release the breech by pulling the trigger. Don't pull the trigger without first disconnecting the cocking lever (and maybe unscrewing the pull rod from the hinge block at the piston end too) so as not to damage anything, and let us know.
Maybe I should just send you my rifle and let you look at it. I'm not frustrated, just a bit disappointed that the pull rod appears to be a bit fragile for its function.
PS: Were you able to see the two pellet pics? Getting the macro and autofocus to cooperate on my camera was a bear…
I could see the pellet pics.
Looks like LW bite marks to me.
I am not going to deliberately try to slam the breech on my rifle.
The safety cannot be pushed foreward until the rifle is fully cocked. It moves to the rear as the cocking lever is pulled back and will not release until full cock.
If I release the anti-beartrap at any position between just short of fully cocked to fully uncocked, the rifle will uncock if I ease off on the pressure on the cocking arm. There is nothing short of full cock other than the anti-beartrap that will hold the piston back.
I beg to differ. If after the fourth click the pull rod breaks, the mechanism jams. You CANNOT depress the release button. Don't you think I tried that?? Moreover, you CAN push the safety in and pull the trigger to close the breech. I know this FOR A FACT, because I did it. I had to. I had no choice, and it worked. Let us hope it never happens to you so that you can prove it to yourself.
By the way, I get my best groups with the forearm resting on the monkey bags 2/5 of the way into the checkering, and my thumb alongside the wrist, as B.B. showed us recently.
You must have something wrong with that gun….that needs to be fixed.
Thanks for the rest position, but a 48 has no checkering. I will have to use tape strips for reference points to figure it out.
I had to mail off 5 bills on Thursday, and wanted to see where I stood once those checks cleared before I drained the bank account further.
I will spend nearly all my discretionary income on airguns I rarely get to fire, but I won't go into debt for them.
Now you have me drooling over that HW. Dangit Volvo.
A Happy Easter to everyone, regardless of religious affiliation. Political correctness cannot dissuade my well-wishes!
The sun is finally out, and the temperature is in the 70s. Finally I feel like doing something other than watching the Military Channel and muttering to myself in the dark.
Special Easter wishes to our recovering friend, Tom Gaylord. I was sure we would get a photo of him in his light blue, A Christmas Story-inspired bunny suit. Oh well, there is always next Easter.
I would also like to say, that while he is recovering, if he would like to forward any rifles to me for testing until he recuperates, I am willing to take one for the team;^)
In all seriousness, may God continue to heal Tom and give strength and vigilance to Edith.
I finally got around to looking at my eMatch scores for March. Yuck! Fifth place out of six. My Talon got beat out by pcsashooter's 953 by almost 10 points. Good shooting P! The first place Anschutz got me by 20. But hey, that's only two x's. If I could only get a couple x's. It's doable! I need to find some .177 pellets with very small heads. I think these Premiers are too big. Couple of AirArms got 2nd and 3rd with great scores.
WV: taisin – Maybe I'd be more accurate with a taser. Also, could be a tactical rasin.
Oh, yeah, and Happy Easter everyone. PC aside, Christ is risen!
Sorry to hear of your troubles with the 54. All this in the midst of shooting your best groups must have been especially frustrating.
I think that there must be subtle design differences between the 48/52 and the 54 that would explain the discrepancy between what you and two talon and a 48 are experiencing as far as the beartrap.
I would tinker with my 52 now, but not while SWMBO is at home. I must say, my (used) Diana has operated flawlessly for me with no difficulties or breakages of any kind.
My AA TX200 requires a certain technique to cock, which I have documented on this blog. I have to pull the lever with a certain amount of speed at the end of the stroke, or it will not cock. BB told me this is not typical.
My 52 on the other hand, I can pull the lever back slowly and it still will cock. My pull rod or whatever RWS calls it, never seems to be under any stress that would come close to breaking it, and it holds tight against the receiver. Maybe it is all a matter of the adjustment of the rod… or maybe you have forearms like Popeye?;^)
This goes to show, that every rifle is different.
As far as your POI shift, perhaps you bumped the scope while doing your repairs? Just a thought.
How is your custom-shop Crosman 2300KT shooting? That LW barrel certainly put a bite into that pellet. BTW what does KT stand for?
I will be interested to hear your feelings toward the HW30S once you receive it. Is it .22 or .177?
I got the .177 for the HW30S. Somebody told me it was time to get away from .22's, so I did! Seriously, I wanted an 'almost' youth rifle to compare with the Bronco in size, performance, weight and cocking effort. So I chose the HW30S. Perhaps the HW25L would have been a closer match but I figured I'd go one step higher.
On the 54, I can pull the lever back as slowly as I want, and even rest after each click if necessary, but I find if I cock it in one smooth stroke it seems to go just a little easier. The pull rod adjustment has to be very exact, in order to get that satisfying little springy 'click' at the end when returning the lever back to its rest position. This can be a little tricky since the hinge block through which the hinge pin goes (on the lever end) only has one through-hole; this means any adjustment inevitably requires full 180-degree turns in rotating the block. Too bad they didn't make through-holes on all four faces, then one could really fine tune the adjustment in 90-degree increments. From my hard-won experience, it is best to err on the side of looseness and stress (flex) the pull rod as little as possible in operation, just barely enough to feel the least springiness necessary to keep the lever pressed against the action when you fire the rifle. If I were to rewrite my pull rod replacement instructions I would emphasize that point instead of the 3" separation of handle to action. Feel is everything in this mechanism.
As for the Crosman 2300KT, I'm not sure. The pistol itself only says Model 2300, but the invoice from Crosman's custom shop says "Item # 2300KT". Since this is a model 2300T, maybe it stands for 2300 'Kustom' T!
I have my lever set a 2 inches. I did not like the 3 inch position the way it came. I too felt that it was a bit too much stress.
My setup requires only a small amount of pressure to close the cocking handle.
So far, resting the rifle nose heavy seems to be the most consistent.
I also found out that Ensure bottles do not make good targets. The plastic is brittle and tends to shatter out big holes.
Shooting Superdomes the last few times. Seem to work pretty good . Have some Super HP to try. Doubt the hollow point is deep enough to have much effect, but the general bluntness of the point may have a better "thwack" factor.
Happy Easter everyone!
Hope none of you took any potshots at the Easter Bunny…. The reason I say that is, he came speeding through my yard hiding eggs along the way. Funny thing about those eggs though. They were small and kinda brown this time….. What the..?!?!?
Sorry Dave, might have been one of my dogs, but if small may have been one of the cats, hehe. Don't eat those eggs! HAPPY EASTER!
Are the Crosman CO2 Powerlet cartridges recyclable? Can one send them back to Crosman like toner cartridges back to HP? So far I've made great use of them as targets at 25 yards. They make a satisfying clink when hit. .22 caliber Baracudas don't even nick them! The day I can consistently knock them off their perch at 40 yards I will know I've finally learned the art.
The actual Easter Bunny, aka Peter Cottontail, has many impostors who leave behind a multitude of fake 'easter eggs'. Feel free to use your airgun marksmanship skills upon them.
As for me, if Mrs. Slinging Lead found out I had killed any bunny, no matter what fraud the bunny had tried to perpetrate, I would be in deep doo doo. This gives the damned bunnies a distinct advantage. One fine day I will have my revenge on the bunnies.
Happy Easter /Dave.
Don't know I asked that question long time ago. Not necessarily sending them back to Crosman but recycling them other than just tossing them in the trash. Never did get any answers, maybe no one knows. I'll try and remember to call local recycling, no promises (I'll try to remember).
Don't take this seriously, but never look up Easter and the Easter Bunny on the web. My wife wanted me to do it last night I chased my tail (pun intended) for hours. Some funny facts and fiction though. It was quite amusing before I feel asleep with my netbook in hand.
I noticed that you, me, and Aaron all had the same disappointing experience with our Benjamin pumps for our Discoveries. Then, each of us bought a Diana 52. Weird. I sense a conspiracy. I propose a special prosecutor be appointed, to waste several million tax dollars…
Hope you get your Discovery shooting soon.
Happy Easter to all. And here's to Tom getting back on his feet and returning soon.
Derrick38, yes the Long Walk is a real gem. Do you remember that part about how the Soviet guards shaved a spot on the narrator's head then walked by at two second intervals tapping it with their fingers like a Chinese water torture? Then it was off to the gulag. Surely, this man experienced the depths. I'd be seeing Big Foot long before reaching the Himalayas. Hadn't heard about your other book but it is my type.
AlanL, so sorry to hear about your difficulties with the 54. It is beyond my comprehension. I had just about everything imaginable go wrong with my B30 which is a copy of the 48 but never a problem with the cocking link. In fact, it kept working fine even when the pin that holds the cocking lever in place fell out. Dare I suggest sending your rifle to a professional tuner. Nothing against your skills; you've gone much further than I could have. But it stands to reason to me that if you have someone with a lot of mechanical ability and fix spring guns over a long period of time for a living, you are bound to come up with something that other people do not have. After a trip to Rich Imhoff, the B30 did not have one single problem and just keeps getting more accurate.
Is there a list of professional airgun smiths available, with contact info and areas of specialty?
I know Vince is top of the list, and so is Derrick38, and Jim Maccari, and now Matt61 mentioned a Rich Imhoff. But where do I go for all the contact info?
In other news, I have resumed commerce with gun stores, and the start has not been auspicious. I called up one place about ordering a gun and after getting the price, I asked if there was an additional fee beyond what was quoted since they are sending for the gun. There was a pause, then this shrill teenage-sounding voice squealed out: "WE'RE ORDERING THIS, NOT TRANSFERRING IT!" Groan, here we go again.
You may recall my dealings with the madman who eventually transferred my Savage rifle a couple years ago. Well, his surprise disappearing act overshadowed a lot of other weird things in that whole episode. The wholesaler who sold the gun was a pill in his own right. In my first call, I asked what seemed like perfectly reasonable questions for a first-timer ordering a gun, and I got a lot of language like: "I UNDERSTAND that" and "WHAT I'M ASKING IS…" and "I'm TRYING to HELP you."
After he assured me that he would communicate with the gunstore, nothing happened for a week. I called back the whosesaler who didn't seem to know me or what I was talking about. Then he said, "Oh yeah, it's coming back to me now. Your gun store said that he doesn't use our carrier so the deal is off." I called up the lunatic store owner who said, "Huh, I never even called the place to send the FFL." As for the business about refusing a carrier, he said, "Never heard of that before."
In seeking a decent gun store in the Sacramento area, I've undertaken a small study of internet reviews of places, and they are all pretty low. Time and again, you hear detailed examples about rude, clueless store workers. One guy even said that he had found this true of numbers of states in the Western part of the U.S.–Washington, Oregon, California. That more or less equals my experience. The best are erratic. The worst are borderline criminal, and the average is low in terms of service, manner, and knowledge. I don't get it. The people who serve me my burrito are nice as are the people who cut my hair or check out my groceries. Why can't gun stores be like that. Nancy Tompkins says that shooters are about the nicest people you will ever meet which I have found to be true, so where do they get the people who work in gun stores? You can't claim that they are hostile from dealing with anti-gun activists since the only people who come to gun stores are either gun enthusiasts or people who want to give it a chance and, in many cases, are turned off by the manners. Heck, maybe if gun stores were nicer we would see a decrease in anti-gun attitudes.
Anyway, thus things stood last night. But today, appropriately enough on Easter, a dramatic change of events. I called up a new place which, ironically enough, is located at the scene of the earlier fiasco with the Savage rifle. That concern went out of business; the last I saw of the owner was him wearing a very poor disguise with a shaved head and fu manchu whiskers. The new owners are a husband and wife team with a background in law enforcement whose life dream has been to open a gun shop and educate people. They were on duty on Easter Sunday, taking all of my information and offering to transfer anything I could find from a legitimate dealer. I can't believe it! Well, what I have in mind should give a significant boost to their new business. I'm also thinking of offering the ultimate plum (by way of suggestion) of PA dealership. They can be like Wayne. The owners say that they want to educate people about shooting and we all know that airguns are one of the fastest-growing of the shooting sports.
AlanL, that's a good idea about a list of gunsmiths, but I've never seen such a thing, and if one exists, it is undoubtedly incomplete. At the library, people are always asking for that one resource that will answer their question and there isn't one. It's always a case of hunting around, hopefully with some efficiency.
However, in the case of gunsmiths, you only need one, and you've already mentioned several superior ones. Don't forget Mike Melick at Flying Dragon Air Rifles who is extremely versatile and has unbeatable prices. Rich Imhoff goes by the handle, Rich from Mich. You can locate either one by Googling although Vince is right here, and I bet he could fix anything for you.
List of Airgun tuners.
Talk to Vince Brandolini first. He's been a tremendous asset to this blog and has worked on some of my guns and I recommend him.
Here's the list you've been asking for that has about 25 other tuners:
Finally finished that battle with the riding mower, I won! Had more tools in my arsenal than it had stubbornness (mini-sledge, hehe). But done with it now. Hopefully the misses will let me get back to my pistol tomorrow.
Buy something from the good gun store quickly if they are even remotely competitive — you want that to catch on. Run by actual professionals with experience _on the right side of the law_, sounds like a scam:). I'm sorely disappointed in the choices available to me, with two exceptions, and one only has half a dozen guns that are post 1865:)!
At the other places , unless I want an AR15 or Desert Eagle, I'm SOL:). Supposing you can get one of the soldier of fortune wannabe's behind the counter to help, they want 2x what their used guns are worth and only want to sell new what they know is best for you, i.e., what they've had trouble selling. At one place, I thought it was just me looking "inauspicious", but a very respectable fellow at my club said he had the same problem there and found my favorite gun shop the best, even though the other shops talk about it as if it were the worst place in the world (a good reference in my opinion).
Did you shoot that pepperbox yet?
you mentioned earlier about Ensure bottles. When I run out of targets or just want to get rid of some bottles, I fill them with sand to add weight & solidity to them. I normally have a cardboard box underneath (if I'm fortunate enough to make enough holes to drain the sand). Just a thought but I know you are a lot more experienced than I.
The plastic bottles were a failed attempt…they are to brittle to take a beating.
Instantly destructable targets include…
nuts, crabapples,raspberries, paintballs, gravel, grashoppers, dandelions, …anything in season or easily obtainable.
Large poke weeds and burdocks are fun to shoot down. The stems are very heavy and require a nearly solid row of holes across the stem to take them down.
Even a thick piece of string hanging from the bird feeder is fun on a calm day.
I'll have to try some of those alternate targets. I've got 6 pecan trees, two peach trees and two fig trees plus others (flowering) wasn't really thinking. I have a lot of natural targets on my property, just gotta look around more. Thanks.
You've eaten too many chocolate Easter bunnies if you can put me in a list with Vince Brandolini and Jim Maccari as a tuner. Unless you mean, "which of these three doesn't belong?"
Thank you for putting me in some very, very talented company. Seriously, I don't belong there. Besides, I only work on my own stuff. I'm just crazy enough to blog the process.
At the expense of sounding like a newbie, I am dying to know what "WV:" (followed by word-play) stands for. I've searched this blog for answers. I've searched the internet for answers. I've searched my soul for answers. I'm starting to feel like I'm sitting in a theater full of people watching the Rocky Horror Picture Show, and I have no lighter, rice, or toilet paper. Somebody please fill me in. Thanks.
There should be a FAQ, as you are not the first to ask:). WV = word verification that you have to type in to make a comment. Sometimes they are too close for comfort, such as when I got "rednaq" or something of the sort:).
Since there's no such thing as too many choices,Airgun artisans is a good place to find airgun talent also!!Happy Easter everyone!
Orin,It's the word verification below the comment box…..The one I have to type is "stemism".The thing speaks profound gibberish!
Here's a quick list of the tuners I could think of in a couple minutes. This list shouldn't be construed as an endorsement or be considered conclusive. In fact, I guarantee that I've forgotten several top notch people. Do the google thing to find out more about each of them. Keep in mind that tuners tend to specialize in certain guns or types of power plants.
Boris at Pyramyd Air
Rich (in mich) Imhoff
Jim Maccari will no longer accept new work.
There's also Anthony Annuzi and "Big Bore Bob Dean"…..For Airforce and big bore airguns,respectively….
Kevin, Derrick38 & Matt61,
Thanks for the tuner lists.
BG_Farmer, Frank B,
Thanks guys. Now I can quit torturing myself and start participating. 🙂
Yeah, for the longest time I too thought it was a West Virginia hillbilly special language code or something, and when I finally quit trying to figure it out and broke down and asked, I felt about as foolish upon being told as no doubt you are feeling now!
Yeah, thanks dude. That helped. I was moving on, but you have helped me reach a new level of humiliation.
Now that you know what WV means, we'll have to teach you the secret handshake;^)
It is indeed very uncomfortable to feel like you're the only person who doesn't get it, whatever 'it' may be. I feel this way almost perpetually.
Had a similar experience on the yellow forum, I couldn't figure out what the "nt" at the end of just about every other post meant. I finally realized it stood for "no text".
I may have added to peoples confusion today with my own acronym.
SWMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed
As long as we're talking about West Virginia…
What do you get when you put 100 West Virginians in one room?
A full set of teeth! HA!
Just kidding of course. The only reason I am allowed to tell that joke is because my wife was born in West Virginia.
Living in Georgia, I have no room to talk. One of our esteemed residents was recently arrested by the mounties in Canada for trying to purchase a 5 year old boy on the internet. I don't know what the world is coming to sometimes.
Profound gibberish? I love it!
SWMBO. That's funny – I glazed right past it the first time. My wife will love it!
I need to remember that one "SWMBO"!
I thought Bob Lutter either passed away several years ago or just dropped out of doing repairs due to age (Isn't he in his 90s?).
Please correct me if I've mixed up Lutter with someone else.
Mr B & B.B,
Firstly I hope you (B.B) get better soon!
Well the JB compound and cleaning kit arrived and I scrubbed the barrel with the brass brush and the paste as per the instructions.
Unfortunately the jag that came with the kit was a wool mop and not one that I could use patches on to remove the paste.
I did the best I could to get most of it out, but couldn't get all of it.
The groups were terrible in the beginning. In the region of 8" at 20 yards.
They slowly started getting better the more I shot with it. I guess what was left of the paste was getting worked out by the pellets.
However, the best I could do was to get them down to around 2".
Yesterday I saw some CZ Diabolo Lux wadcutter pellets in the shop and decided to try them. Jackpot!
I am now get groups of around 0.3" with 5 shots at 20 yards. One nice hole. The JSB Exacts and the heavies still won't group any better than 1.5-2".
It seems any pellet (pointed, round nosed, hollow point) other than a wadcutter just will not group. Any ideas why?
I have never tried any wadcutters in the rifle before, so I'm not sure if it is specifically the pellet or a combination of the cleaning together with the different pellet that has made the difference.
If you have any other suggestions to get other types of pellet to group, I'd love to hear them.
You've got me on that one. My first thought was that it's caused by a difference in the diameter of the heads of the various pellets you've been shooting.
Second thought–You can try tying a piece of cloth to a piece of fishing line and feeding through the barrel and using it to clean out the rest of the bore paste.
Third thought–I think you'd get a more informed answer if you retell your problem on the current blog which is found at/blog// where you'll reach some very knowledgeable people.
Thanks for getting back to us and please keep us informed about your problem.
Re the airgun in "The Empty House".Moran certainly cranks this rifle by Von Herder,the blind gunsmith.However,if you examine it closely,there is a cylinder in the stock.This would be the source of air that gives it lethal grunt.