An open letter to airgun manufacturers
by B.B. Pelletier
For several years, I've noticed a disturbing trend in airguns. The manufacturers are peopled with employees who know nothing about airguns for the most part. Nor do they know what we want, or, more important, what we NEED. Today, I'll take a stab at answering that question, because airgun makers ask me all the time what I think the airgun market needs. Then, before I can answer, they tell me with a smile that their Chinese maker has a new rifle that's even faster than the one that wowed the market last week. Apparently, their question is rhetorical.
Power, we have!
The pedestal of ultimate power that all manufacturers are scrambling to perch upon is getting crowded. Numbers are inching higher than truth, but the fact is that no one can effectively use supersonic air rifles. Yes, solid "pellets" (otherwise known as bullets) could solve that problem, but they leave the aftertaste of unsafe ranges and ricochets. The diabolo pellet is our best friend, but we need to learn to live in the world it loves...the world of subsonic velocities.
So, what do we need?
We need some smaller, lower-powered air rifles made from quality materials and having great barrels that a person can shoot all day without a Gold's Gym membership. Guns that cock with less than 20 lbs. of effort, and guns that can hit a dime at 50 feet shooting offhand with open sights. Guns with good triggers that wear in to become great. I'll give you some examples.
The Diana model 27
Was there ever another breakbarrel rifle as nice as this one? Oh, it can't keep up with the TX200 Mark III, but my Ruger 10/22 plinker can't keep up with a Remington 40XB, either. I'll probably shoot the 10/22 about 500 times more often than I would a 40XB because the barrel doesn't wear out in 2,000 shots. I'm told I can get a half-million shots from my 10/22, but I doubt I'll live to see that. In the same way, the Diana 27 is a reliable, accurate breakbarrel that you can shoot all day and not have enough. It has the famous Diana ball-bearing sear release that can be adjusted extra-fine, as my .22-caliber model is. Cocking is around 15-17 lbs. and the rifle weighs about 5.5 lbs. No need to worry about the neighbors because the gun's discharge is such a mouse cough that it's unlikely they'll know you are there. And, the 27 is just one of many guns with similar features.

The Slavia 630/631
This rifle has more steam than the 27, but it's still a pipsqueak by modern magnum terms. It's as accurate as anyone could wish for, but a too-wide set of scope dovetails, coupled with the same quirky cross slot scope stop as the Webley Patriot prevents it from being easily scoped. It's possible, but the owner has to learn a lot about scope mounts before it will work. This rifle also has a barrel lock that seems quaint on a gun with this little power.
RWS Diana model 5 pistol
Thought this was just about rifles? Well, the model 5 pistol is a classic that should never have gone away. True there are some more modern spring pistols that can kick its behind in the velocity department, but for an all-day air pistol, you'll have to look a long time to beat this one. If you do find one, chances are better than 50/50 it will be a BSF S20.
BSF S20
I saw my first S20 in a German antique shop, and even then I knew it was really a small air rifle converted to a pistol. What I didn't know for 20 more years was that the trigger, which is a sandwich of riveted sheetmetal plates, breaks-in to become very nice. But it takes 4,000 shots to do it, so you really have to shoot the gun all day long. That's not hard to do though, because it's easy to cock. Recently, I said the Webley Typhoon could become a small carbine by a reversal of the process that created the S20. I wonder if anyone listened?

What do we have?
It's slim pickings for plinkers today, but there are a few worth mentioning. The Beeman R7 along with the HW30 and HW50 are good starters. So is the Mendoza RM-200, the little rifle with the big value. And Gamo has the Delta, which is a nice little rifle with too much plastic. And ditto for Crosman's 795. Oh, yeah, the IZH 61 & 60. Good little guns, all, but nothing like what we had 20 years ago.
Diana had the model 24 then the model 28. They had the models 70 and 72, which were carbine adaptations of the models 5 and 6 pistols, respectively. Every manufacturer had a youth model or two, and a few, like Weihrauch, had adult rifles such as the famous model 55, and they were also low-powered and perfect for plinking.
Every week I get emails from frustrated parents looking for a good air rifle to teach the shooting fundamentals to their children. For some, I recommend Daisy's 499 and for others I recommend the IZH 61. But for a large segment, I have nothing to recommend. They don't want to spend over $300 for an R7, or even over $200 for an HW30. They would like a nice breakbarrel spring gun for around $150. Wouldn't we all? A gun that's accurate plus easy to cock and load. One that doesn't weigh too much and has nice open sights and a manual safety. The RM-200 comes as close as any, but that's just one gun. We need more!
157 Comments:
Thank you BB,
I wonder sometimes who's running the marketing departments for these companies. Maybe planned obsolescence is part of their strategy? Don't we live in a disposable society?
I couldn't agree more with you on the IZH 61. If you or your readers missed my post on scoping options, please stop by here.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/275684/thread/1198129613/Scoping+the+IZH+61+%28Not+Crosman+but+nice+to+know%29
Regards,
Michael in Florida
What about the rws model 34? Isn't that the lowest priced rws available now days? I know it's more than the target price, but everything is now days. from SavageSam
B.B.
Nice blog but you have to realize "you can never go back home".
Yes we are a disposable society and to compound it "bring in the bigger, faster, eye candy new product and in plastic, please".
My son's generation is the plastic, disposable generation (cell phone, X-box, PC, TV.
You like me are from the wood generation, old fashion in their eyes. We can go back 10, 20, 30, 40 years, and they can only go back 10.
My son shoots the Crosman Quest, I shoot my RWS 48, he shoots .177 and I prefer the .22 cal.
When his airgun breaks or another airgun catches his eyes he buys another .177 while I still have mine.
Bottom line is he is happy and so am I.
Warren
Warren,
Well-stated.
I can live with modern materials, despite my "too much plastic" remark. When plastic is used as the locking mechanism for the breakbarrel, I draw the line. Even a Glock puts metal where it's needed.
But the rifles I'm talking about can be built. For example, if the Webley Typhoon were made into a rifle, it would be a great little airgun. As a pistol with a poor anti-recoil mechanism, it sucks.
And we do need more plinker airguns. The Mendoza and IZH 61 are not enough.
That was my message.
B.B.
SavageSam,
My complaint wasn't just about price. I want lower-powered airguns that are much easier to cock.
BTW, are you who I think you are?
B.B.
I agree.
I have a CZ Slavia 631, with both a Williams Peep and currently a Daisy 3-9x32 scope mounted (after reading Jock Elliott's articles on Minisniping on his CD, and re-reading Capstick's original, I had a gun in the power-range to give it a try, so I added the scope to give it a try. I haven't been shooting much, but it is despite being a bit bulky my favorite since it is far more accurate than I!!
Have a Crosman RM-377 which was my "power gun" until I got the TF-99 and Gamo Shadow 1000. Downside to the RM, Crosman's liability conscience (lawyers) putting a heavier trigger on it. Hear the regular Mendoza line has a nice trigger. I like mine, just not the trigger.
Hia BB,
In my collection I found the Daisy 953 and RWS 92 to fill that need. But I would like to see (and buy) more.
Joe G from Jersey
Shucks, forgot to comment on the "plastics" points. Among my "plastic guns" I have a Crosman 66 Powermaster and Remington 77 AirMaster (Crosman 2100 "in a Tux") and currently the AirMaster is a mess. The little plastic cup holding the fiber compression bar wouldn't so I took it apart, didn't put it back together right, so the gun sits.
By comparison, I have an old 760 we bought at a flea market (in the early-mid '80s?), plus one a little newer (marked A Coleman Company) that I bought at an auction for $10 this past year (it was still in the original box with the sales receipt attached to it) and had one of the the all-plastic jobs from Wal-Mart. Sold the all-plastic one, just doesn't feel right too me.
BB, are you sure that the plastic lock-up parts are really a liability on the Delta? The same arrangement has been used for years on rifles more powerful than that - at least some of the rifles that Gamo used to make for Daisy were like that, as was Gamo's own Sporter 500. Are you aware of a high rate of failure for this lock-up design?
One nice, intermediate rifle (suitable for mid-teenagers, I think) is a bit of a DIY. I put a Crosman C5M77-010 spring (about $5 from Crosman) into a Quest action, and I came up with a gun that I can cock with my pinky yet still does premier's in the mid-750's. Shoots quieter, too. The Quest only weighs about 6lbs, so the weight ain't too bad, either.
Crosman USED to offer a Quest 500X with this spring, but it was discontinued.
SavageSam, do you really think the '34 is a decent kid's gun? As I remember it's on the heavy side and not that easy to cock...
That aside, my personal pet peeve is the lousy open sights that come on many guns. IMO - the Crosman sight is nice to look through, but it is VERY cheaply made. The sights on my RWS 350 and '48 are well made but have lousy sight pictures. The ones on my Gamo 440 and CFX have side play and won't adjust up far enough for 60 yards (the Shadow and 220 sights are better in that respect). And all the Gamo FRONT sights are delicate and expensive to replace.
My favorites are the peep sights on some Modoza's, the B26 sight, and the AR1000 sight. Nice and solid, no wiggle to speak of, decent to use, and plenty of adjustment range.
Then again, almost everyone seems to be using scopes at the moment, so my concerns might be in the minority.
My nephew has gone through more airguns than I will probably ever own (he is 14). He buys one, uses it, and then sells it. And it may be because none were of a quality he wanted to keep, not because of the throw away mentality. He is talking about buying a QB78, modding it, and keeping it!
.22 multi-shot
Vince,
Please tell me more about this rifle you modified with a different spring.
B.B.
.22 multi-shot,
The QB 78 is a wonderful airgun. Your nephew will enjoy it. But the guns I'm still looking for are springers - just for the simplicity.
B.B.
I don't who you think I am? Tell me and I'll tell you. From SavageSam
BB,
A lot of the guns he has gone through are springers. The current two he is using are the rifle and pistol from Cummins Tools.
Im behind you 100% in this, everybody need a small humble springer for basement shooting or just for plain old plinking.
Take a look at the Weihrauch HW25, a very nice rifle:
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h194/airgunse/HW25W1.jpg
Best regards from Sweden.
I think one way to send a message to the market is by buying the types of guns that you speak of. It really comes down to supply and demand. If people buy cheaply made guns, or guns just based on power, that's what the companies will keep making more of.
I'm 36 and haven't had an air/spring rifle since I was a kid but my recently purchased Beeman R7 should arrive tomorrow. I made my decision based on everything that this article speaks of - craftsmanship, ease of cocking, accuracy, a quality trigger, weight. Maybe I'm old enough to realize that if you buy something of quality to begin with, you will be happy with it for years to come. From everything I have read, the R7 should be just that. I hope the extra dollars I spent on it help in a small way to promote more high quality, usable guns in the future.
Johnny - Sweden,
YES! I didn't mention the HW 25 but it is a perfect example of the kind of gun I'm talking about.
Thank you. Is the 25 still made?
B.B.
SavageSam,
I have a friend named Sam who lives in Savage. Are you him?
B.B.
TRC,
Okay, YOU are the perfect person to tell me whether I'm right or wrong on this. For starters, you are young for an adult airgunner. And you have probably been exposed to the airguns of the past 10 years.
When the R7 comes, I'd like you to try to put into words your feelings as you open the box and experience the rifle for the first time. There is a moment with every new Weihrauch when I'm overwhelmed by the rifle. I want to see if it affects you the same way.
As for shooting, the R7 is nice, but never forget that it can be smoothed to an incredible level. It will buzz a little when you first shoot it, but don't let that put you off.
Please tell us your impressions.
B.B.
About guns for children:
My 5 year old is small for his age, so small that even a Daisy Red Ryder is too long in the buttstock for him to shoulder. I sense that many younger children are too small for shooting any rifles currently offered.
So what would I like to see? Adjustability.
I want a youth rifle that can grow with the child, with a stock that can be adjusted over time.
My solution for now is to make an adjustable stock for a 1377, but not everyone has the ability to do gunsmithing work like that.
Of course no mfg. advises that a 3-5 year old use an airgun, but kids do love to learn to shoot at a young age.
Just my 2c.
BB.
Yes, the 25 is still made. Its like a HW30 but more in every sence - smaller, quieter, less power (about 5 ft/lbs), easier to cock but still as accurate and with all the HW quality. Retails new at around $200 here. I have got a few expensive PCPs, a 1022 rimfire and centerfires but the little 25 springer is still the one I use most.
I wanted a light, full sized rifle that any teenager could cock. Also, I had a spare Quest 1000X lying around. So, on a hunch, I tried ordering a part# "C5M77-010" from Crosman, which I believe is the spring from the discontinued 500X.
The spring was about $5 (+ $4 shipping). I took the spare Quest, popped the action out of the stock, and pulled the mainspring out. I put the new spring in without any sort of spacer, just slid it over the existing guide (same ID) and reinstalled it. That part was super easy, since the preload on this spring is considerably less than the stock spring.
I took a few shots to set the spring and shot some Premiers over the chrony. They seemed to hover around 780 or so. Granted, when I said that I could cock it with my pinky, I didn't mention that it was a little bit of a strain on that particular digit... but I do think that the rifle is easier to cock than the Delta. I'll have to actually measure the cocking force.
All in all, it's a very pleasant gun to shoot... and, like I said, it still has enough sock to wack targets on my backard range (57 yards). I couldn't be more pleased with it. I recently bought a Gamo Sporter for $60 on closeout (680fps), and I think the modded Quest is more appealing.
This spring would also probably work in many Gamo guns as well.
B.B.,
Sure, I will be glad to report back. First let me say though that I haven't been exposed to the airguns of the past 10 years. My experiences are limited to the airguns that I had as a youth - a Crosman Pumpmaster 760 and various low-end cocking pistols. The R7 will be my first break-barrel rifle.
However, as a youth, I was also exposed to .22 bullet rifles. Our family had one that we would take on camping trips with us, and the youth camp that I went to each summer had a .22 firing range. Needless to say, none of these .22s were made of plastic and as a kid, the feeling of holding and shooting a wooden stock rifle like that was second to none. In comparison, my Pumpmaster felt like a toy, but I loved it dearly as a kid.
When I started shopping for my new airgun, I was originally looking for a cheap plinker that my brother and I could go out and shoot like we did as kids. A new Pumpmaster 760? Maybe a Crosman 2100? Once I started looking online I discovered adult airguns. Wow! I had no idea. All of a sudden I was bombarded with tons of options and at first I was amazed by the power claims. I started looking at the Gamo guns because they weren't too much more than what I had initially intended on spending. I went to a local sporting store to see one in the flesh. When the guy pulled the Shadow 1000 out of the box I must admit that I was disappointed by all of the plastic and needless to say, I didn't get the feeling that you are asking about. The gun had good reviews online, but I just knew this wasn't going to do in the long run. At that point I was willing to spend the money to get the real deal, but I was still looking for power because initially it seemed like everything out there was 1000+ FPS - that's what I noticed at first. "That new Benjamin is 1500 FPS!?"
However, the more I read, the more I realized that I didn't need all of that power (and the bad characteristics that come with increased power) because I have no plans to hunt anything but paper targets. Maybe there are a lot of people out there with serious rodent problems, but I'm not one of them. :) So then my focus shifted to everything else besides power. At that point, the decision became pretty easy as I had suddenly ruled out most of what was out there. I came full circle in that I got back to what I really wanted - a plinker that was going to be fun to go and shoot for an afternoon that wasn't difficult to cock, not too heavy, etc. The difference from where I started is that I had realized that I wanted a good one.
Ok, that was a long-winded response but I thought some background on what my past experience is and what I went through before making my purchasing decision might be useful information.
I'll report back on the 27th - I'm taking the R7 with me to a cabin in the woods for the holidays. What could be better? :)
BB,
what you say is so true, and it applies not only to airguns but the entire shooting industry. I've been involved with the the shooting industry on a small level for the past few years and they always try to push the limits, and tell us that what worked for decades is no longer good enough.
For example, the 30-30 cartridge was perfect for deer hunting for years but now there is a huge push for .300 mag. The .300 man cartridge is capable of taking an elk at nearly 1000 yards. The only reason a hunter would need a load like that for a whitetail at 100 is because the industry says he does. Another example is in the field of paintball. Most official leagues set a maximum rate of fire at 15 ball per second (900rpm) but the industry keeps producing markers that can fire in the 50-60bps range and higher. There is one gun on the market that is said to be capable of firing at 86bps, which is faster than the fastest loader can load the balls into the chamber.
The major companies in the industry need to realize that the "most" is, and has been for a while, "too much". Instead of 1-uping each other by pushing the limits of their products, they should take a long hard look at what the people who will actually be using these products need, then 1-uping each other in the quality department.
I guess that the same could be said about all forms of business.
mech
B.B.
Your article reminds me our auto industries where everyone rushes in to put more horsepower to their cars. So, what would Jesus shoot?
Alan
2 cents,
When my son was five I used to sit him on my lap and we proceeded to shoot balloons with a target air pistol, One inside another, as a trick shot. I held the gun and he pulled the trigger. We'd shoot the outer balloon first, the the inner one. His mother would be the amazed audience.
B.B.
Johnny,
Thanks for that info. Now I'm sad Pyramyd Air decided to suspend orders of spring guns from Weihrauch.
B.B.
Vince,
You just earned a free subscription to this blog for a year with that tip!
Thanks,
B.B.
TRC,
Man, are YOU smart. You just summed up all the learning I had to go through for the past 30 years.
I know you will enjoy your new rifle.
Merry Christmas,
B.B.
Mech,
You are so right about the shooting sports. That's why I cling to the .45 ACP when all the ads want me to go with the .357 Sig or some other whomptedoodle new cartridge.
Back the airguns, I think by focusing on power, the makers are missing a sector of the market who want accurate plinkers they can shoot all day. I know I want them, and from the comments I've received today it looks like I'm not alone.
B.B.
Alan,
More to the point, WWJMBD? That's code for What Would John Moses Browning Do. That's the widespread cry of conservatives in the shooting sports today.
B.B.
B.B.,
I tend to think that I was simply smart enough to listen to what you had learned over the past 30 years. :) My decision to buy an R7 had very much to do with your invaluable posts so thank you (and Pyramyd Air) for this blog. Without it, I surely would have made a poor decision and by this time next week I would have been cursing a sore arm and trying to figure out how to get a loud gun with a lot of recoil to shoot straight.
BB.
Are Pyramid about to stop selling HW airguns?
How come..?
Johnny,
They can't get them in a timely manner. When they order from Air Arms, the guns arrive in a week. When they order from Weihrauch, they take longer than 6 months to arrive. Pyramyd keeps customers on the hook until they get fed up and it creates bad feelings all around.
They love the guns, but can't stand the wait - for a PREPAID ORDER!
B.B.
BB,
Fair enough, everybody have to earn a living and I now I understand Pyramids choice.
However, they should really talk to Hans H about this, he is a really nice guy and should be able to adress this issue in a better way.
Tom, no that's not me. I live in Merced,CA. Vince you are right about the 34 being a bit heavy and difficult. From SAVAGESAM
Johnny,
I plan to speak to Hans Jr. at the SHOT Show in February. I'll try to get this resolved.
Thanks,
B.B.
Regarding the tremendous problems PA has been having with Weirhauch:
It really is a pity that one of the top five (quality-wise) airgun makers is tardy in deliveries.
It would seem that management there would make it a high priority to make shipments to the LARGEST AIRGUN DEALER IN THE U.S.!
Likewise, I have been waiting for three months after placing my order for pellets through PA for JSB to get their act together enough that PA will have some of their coveted pellets in stock.
I don't know if JSB (Czech company) and Weirhauch (German) have a problem that is endemic to Europe and labor/government control, but it is sad to see two airgun companies that many consider right at the top for quality just can't seem to get it together with their production and shipments.
One would think that PA's considerable buying power would serve as adequate motivation to get those two companies on their toes, but something has made them lackadaisacal in the extreme.
I seriously doubt that Crosman, Air Arms, or - yes - even Gamo would allow themselves to fall so far behind.
What gives?
Have some of these companies simply lost all interest in selling their products?
I doubt this is PA's fault, as I strongly suspect that other dealers are having similar problems.
seems to me that Weirhauch should look at this as an opportunity. Its supply WITH demand and why not make that supply AND demand. The jobs almost done.
-sumo
I guess I don't understand the desire to start a child on a springer. I have started my Grandson and Grandaughter on the Crosman 1760 and 2260 respectively, simply because they were very young, 3 years old, and they for darn sure did NOT have the strength to cock any springer plus in order to cock any of the "recommended" beginner guns the child either had to stand up or hand the rifle to an adult to cock if they were shooting prone, which I believe is a good starting position since it allows the child to learn technique without a lot of interruption. These 2 rifle are plenty accurate for 20-30 foot shooting which is the range I started them at, so successful hits could be made to encourage continued interest. In fact, my Grandson shot in the 4-H program with the 1760 and was competitive in his class.
I cut the stocks off and glued anti-slip tape on the end. As they grow I will add sections back on. It really is a relatively simple job.
BB,
Even here on the farm nearby development is making firearms less suitable for frequent recreational shooting, so I went looking for a plinker/target type airgun. Since I have stuff for coyotes, etc., I didn't want anything powerful, just something fun to shoot at 10m range that is standard for air guns; I hope to scale my results a bit, so that I can get cheap/unoffensive practice for .22 with it as well. There really weren't that many options, but I finally decided on a Hammerli 490, which I hope to get for Christmas (not as exciting as my Red Ryder 30+ years ago, but close). Part of the problem researching this "need" was that no one, not even the manuafacturers, seems to care about the "recreational" airgun shooter who has no intention of trying to kill anything. Velocity is almost always "1000 fps" or higher, which from my experience seemed both too fast to be accurate and needlessly powerful for hitting a paper target or the like at 33 feet. I didn't find and read your entire blog until after I made my choice, so I probably could have done better (or worse -- we'll see), but I think anybody in a similar situation still has the same problem: few choices of pleasant, easy-cocking rifles and even less information about the ones that are available. Thanks for trying to remedy that situation with a little more information, such as your 10m and M27 blogs. It all comes down to the fact that sellers give people what they will buy: pointlessly overpowered, noisy, recoil-heavy rifles that satisfy basically the same teen mentality as Quake3 and paintball. May be my last post as well as my first, since I doubt this sentiment will be popular.
B.B.,
My R7 showed up a day earlier than expected so I ran it home on my lunch break and cracked open the box! To reply to your question if I had an awesome feeling when I first saw the gun, the answer is a resounding YES! I must say this was an entirely different feeling than when I looked at the Gamo 1000 at the sporting store. Although nobody else was around, I said "oh wow" out loud! Then I carefully removed the gun from the box to take a closer look. Again, I said "oh wow". :) The R7 is simply beautiful! I must say that the fit and finish of it has exceeded my expectations.
When I read that the gun was "small" online, I was a tad bit worried. Would it be too miniature? Now that I have it, the size and weight seem absolutely perfect for me. I'm 5'8" and 160 lbs - no hee-man for sure. I can't imagine lugging around a terribly heavier gun all day. Perfect.
As I'm sure you know, the stock is a stunning dark stain. Excellent! I didn't want a cheezy-looking glossy finish or something that I had seen on some other springers at the sporting store. Although I'm probably going to add a scope in the near future, the open sights are wonderful as well - nothing cheap here either as far as I can tell. The trigger and trigger guard are beautifully done metal as well - no plastic! The gun arrived rust-free which also made me very happy. Of course I'll be taking the advice found on this blog to ensure that this is the case from here on out.
To sum up, I haven't shot it yet (I'll report back on that later), but I'm 110% happy with the fit and finish of my R7. Without a single pellet through it, I must say that I'm already in love. :D
The one question I have is should I clean it first before firing it? I had ordered the Beeman Zip cleaning kit with the intent of cleaning it before shooting, but now I am having second thoughts because everything looks so rust-free and clean. I'd hate to cause any harm to my new gun so just shooting it sounds like the best bet to me at this point. I'm aware that the accuracy will pick up after I get 50-150 shots through it and I'm completely happy with doing so. Thoughts?
BG_Farmer,
You got it!
I hope to change the situation by speaking with a few key manufactures, to see if we can't get a few more plinkers on the market.
If not, We'll figure out how to make them on our own!
B.B.
B.B.
I don't understand these air gun manufacturers, it's like they do no market research. All there seems to be in most modern airguns is high velocity (i.e. superstreak, hunter extreme) or the fancy looking guns with all the accessories (gamo varmit hunter). I guess they bank on people buying airguns for the first time and lure them in with the 1500 fps!!! and so on. I can't comprehend why someone from gamo or crosman doesn't look at this blog and all of its readers opinions, ideas, complaints and learn something about what the airgun market actually wants. I'm only 16 but it seems fairly obvious that if a company produces a product that appeals to both the general public and the airgun enthusiasts from this blog that their companies sales will go up. Maybe there is more profit in luring in people new to air gunning with useless FPS values, but even if that's true is there no pride today in making a finer product.
Sorry it was a rough day....lol
Kyle.
TRC,
Talk about instant gratification! I mean me - not you.
I'm so glad you had that reaction because I don't think there is a better moment in airgunning than opening a new Beeman/Weihrauch rifle box.
As far as cleaning, just wipe off all the preservative oil and don't do anything else. You can shoot it right away. Now I have been recommending cleaning the bores of brand new airguns with JB Non Embedding Bore Claening Compound, but you don't have to do that. It just clears out all the burrs and bluing salts, but shooting 500 pellets does the same thing.
There is no reason to ever clean the bore of an R7, because they don't lead up. Just shoot the gun and enjoy it.
You are set to have some fun!
B.B.
Kyle,
You are wise beyond your years.
B.B.
I agree whole heartedly with everything said here. The choices of decent quality small or light spring air rifles are extremely limited. What makes this even more difficult is the rebranding and labeling games the manufactures have engaged in. Beeman offers a half dozen products under their SS1000 label that vary tremendously in quality. I purchased (and returned) a youth oriented air rifle from a European “brand” that turned out to be a low end Chinese import. Pyramyd handled the return graciously, but the salesperson was unaware and surprised that the rifle was made in China.
This blogg has been a great help and provided a great education. But to someone new to this sport (or returning after many years) it is very difficult to make intelligent buying decisions. Brand and price are not always a good indicator of a products value.
What I would love to see is some type of “B. B. approved “ stamp that could be attached to the products on the website that you are familiar with and feel are good values for their intended purpose or market. I realize with all the products out there it would be impossible to rate even a small percentage of them. But readers clearly trust your judgment and would find this valuable when comparing products.
DCS
B.B.,
Thanks again for the advice. "Just shoot the gun" sounds great to me. :)
Ballistol sounds like great stuff to protect the entire gun. Am I correct in using that for the entire rifle, or do you recommend something different for the stock? There are the Beeman silicon wipes, but is using a cloth lightly sprayed in Ballistol a better way to go?
Thanks again!
Kyle,
its called target marketing. LOL I agree 100%!
-sumo
DCS,
It already exists, though I'm just getting started. As you know, I am Tom Gaylord, and my personal picks are now up on the home page of this website. Click on Tom's Picks, just above the Yellow Welcome to Pyramyd Air banner on the left side of the page.
The thing is, I won't be recommending products unless I feel very strongly about them, so everybody's favorite gun or pellet may not make my list.
B.B.
TRC,
Ballistol is an ideal product for the entire gun.
B.B.
Hi BB,
I recieved my CF-X today and did some shooting. After several violent detonations it calmed down a bit and stayed subsonic with premiers. I was surprised at how precice and smoothe the rotating breech was. It feels like there are ball bearings in it!
Once I accidently forgot to close the breech and fired with it open. It sounded bad but i dont think it did any damage. This brings me to my question. I was wondering where the transfer port is. It must be in the rotating breech somewhere. Correct? It seems it would have to offset to make the loading possible. Any insight on this?
Nate in Mass
BB. Boy did you get the BALL ROLLING!!!I must admit I have been caught up in the velocity wars myself,(RWS 460mag.,RWS 54,RWS350Mag.&many other 1000+ fps MONSTERS!! Diana 54 in 22 cal. will always be my SWEETHEART!! Others are Harsh & unforgiving at best! RWS 460 reminds me of my old 30-30,,FLYNCH FLYNCH!! I have to love it though because wife knows it was 500 bucks!!! Prier to this post of yours, I would have been embarest to admit last weekend Ibought locally on sale a Gamo ricon for 67$!! WOW!! My son & I just came in from a session and w/ Bug buster scope we were KILLING cig. buts. at 33 ft. ALMOST every shot!! Started out at low to mid 400 fps. but after about 500 rounds is now breaking 500 fps w/7.9 cross.prem.!!After lhe last few days shooting this little gun I am amazed at how I lost touch with why I do this!! After last 3 days wearing out Pyramids site ,,I concluded that MY PERFECT HAPPY GUN would be,,,, DRUM ROLL,,,, R-7!!!!& after your post it was like a sign from ABOVE!!! BB kudos to your latest blog!! I AGREE 100%!!! Tim in S.C. aka Drag. Slay>
BB
Amen, I think a lot of beginners make the mistake of buying power, not because they are power hungry but because the advertising does not tell them the advantages of lower power and makes the high power look free. They also see the lower powered guns only offered in child sized models and think of them as toys.
Of course the other benefit of lower power is that all parts of the gun last longer. I have a 30 year old HW55 that still has its original leather piston seal, leather breach seal and spring and it still shoots great. I actually bought an HW50 and detuned it to 10 ftlbs and lightened the stock 3/4 lb. and it is an absolute joy to shoot, and the 50 isnt exactly a Magnum to start with.
I worry that the Chinese, with there new found quality may come in with exactly what we want before the Europeans realize it and suck the life out of them.
Sam
B.B.
Well-said. Airguns have a lot of uses, but I think that the low-cost, accurate, moderate power guns realize the concept most completely. I also think we need a better name than "plinking" for this wonderful and all-consuming activity. Perhaps there is market significance even there.
Glad you mentioned the IZH 61 and HW30--great favorites of mine.
I'm curious if the Benjamin 397--which I'm itching to buy--fulfills the criteria for the list. On low power, it sounds like its performance is comparable to the guns on this list while it can also be adjusted up to respectable power.
Incidentally, to follow-up on my questions about the Plano rifle case and traveling from some weeks ago, the case just ran the gauntlet of the TSA recently with flying colors. I discovered three holes--two at either end of the case and one in the middle--which accept padlocks with a hefty locking bar of almost a quarter inch. They and the extremely tough plastic case make for almost invulnerable protection. The TSA were also very friendly and easygoing although that may be because I was transporting airsoft guns. We'll see if they are as jolly about the Winchester 94 on the return trip.
Matt61
BB,
i would love to see a over powered gas spring rip a gun apart. By finding the weakest gun it would fit in and seeing the damage. I breaks the guns they are made for when over filled, so it makes me wonder.
"rip apart" is an exaggeration of course.
-sumo
BB,
I know its on close out and maybe too late, but a review of the Hammerli 490 would have been nice. It seems to fall right into what we are talking about.
BB,
You tell it like it needs telling, but the real question is, will they listen? I've got an old .22 air rifle barrel that is SOLID STEEL, like an actual firearm's barrel. Are there any quality rifles like that nowdays? Also, with regards to their velocity claims, do any of them NOT jack their numbers with an "industry standard"? And don't even get me going on my old Daisy 22SG and it's rattle-apart barrel.
What I would like is a high-subsonic (actual: not tampered numbers) .22 with a solid metal barrel and body (no sleeves prone to looseness), and with accurate quality for a good price. I'm still thinking Ben 392, but maybe you could compile a list sometime of others that meet an "almost firearm" criteria in durability and relatively low maintenance. JP
Extensive discussion of the best plinking gun begs the question of the best plinking caliber.
177, 20, or 22? I would think 20 is best if it were not for the 20's lack of popularity.
Well, BB, it seems that my perceptions on cocking effort weren't quite on the money. I'll be returning my free subscription to this blog!
My "detuned" Quest takes 24lbs to cock, more than I honestly though. The Delta takes about 18. The Gamo Sporter 500 (still less powerful than the detuned Quest) is a bit harder at 26lbs.
My Crosman 795 is the modern lightweight champ at 14lbs... it's larger than the Delta (just about the size of a 220) but easier to cock.
My old Slavia 618 (which is a tiny rifle) takes all of 11lbs, but it only delivers about 310fps with Premiers (which it doesn't shoot worth a darn anyway).
I say 177 is the best plinking caliber bar none. Thats why i buy .22! I like to have tome authority downrange. I have found accuracy to be the same in 177 and .22, i don't know about 20 / 25. The energy of a 177 will never match the down range energy of a .22 with the optimal pellet in both guns (probably not the same pellet!) One thing i know about a .25 cal is that it is surpassed by the .22 very quickly. SOMEONE SHOULD SIT AND THINK ON THIS AND COME UP WITH THE PERFECT CALIBER!!! LOL. i think that was the idea of the .20. I dont think that was, if you will, on target. LOL
Im in favor of .22 of the 4 calibers. It was just yesterday that i shot a one hole group at 50 yards. Its a theoben rapid mk2, with a slight tune, .22 CAL. Food for thought.
-sumo
sumo,
You seem to overlook the point of discussion in order to brag of your arsenal. Authority downrange and claimed 50 yd groupings have nothing to do with the simple pleasures of shooting.
FALSE!
it was to prove that .22 has potential accuracy! ONLY a little bragging, probably more so on the great shooting, not the gun. LOL, again.
-sumo
It's always nice when a comment is made which is totally ignored because it doesn't fit in with the herd mentality.
Nate,
You got it! The transfer port is excentric to the axis of the rotary breech.
B.B.
Dragon Slayer,
I hope you have been reading about TRC's experience with his new R7. It's a wonderful little airgun.
And thanks for your report on the Gamo Recon. I'll have to test that one someday.
B.B.
Sam,
What you fear has already begun. The Chinese now build the type of rifle I'm looking for, but they don't put a good barrel on it yet. Fix that one thing and they will have the world's next Diana 27.
B.B.
Yes that is exactly what we are looking for. We will have to be patient while you add more of your choices to the list.
Hopefully your thoughts and all these responses will motivate someone in the manufacturing process to develop higher end products to fill the void left by the discontinued ones you mentioned.
DCS
Matt61,
Yes, the Benjamin 397 does fit into the category I'm talking about, except that it's a multi-pump. Some people want the convenience of just cocking the gun and shooting, so they want breakbarrels. They are in the majority, which is why my criteria were about spring guns, only.
B.B.
DCS,
I didn't just write this open letter to fill the blog. My ulterior motive is to take all these comments to the SHOT Show in February and use them to convince those makers who will listen that this is what is needed. There aren't many companies that actually do listen, but I know who does, and I'm targeting them.
B.B.
B.B.,
Thanks for reminding us of the fun factor.
My first recent air gun was purchased to take care of a problem I was having while parking the car under a tree. There was not much of a selection locally so I did a little researching and ended up with a Gamo s1k even though it didn't have a impressive looking scope. I soon found out that over penetration could be a problem.
I would like to find a rifle that a 10y old girl could cock and shoot. The recon looks interesting , in case she is not very interested in shooting. After shooting my s1k she reminded me that she was a girl and didn't care much for shooting even though she impressed me.
It was nice reading everyones insight on todays blog.
Hammerli 490,
Holy cow! Here I am talking about the Chinese air rifle that could replace the Diana 27, and you have been trying to point one out to me all along. The Hammerli 490 is the exact Chinese rifle I have been referring to. I don't know if the 490 has an accurate barrel, capable of dime-sized groups at 50 feet, but if it does, that's the gun I have been waiting for.
Why is it too late?
B.B.
BB, have you actually shot the 490? Looking at the picture and the description, I suspect it has the same direct-sear mechanism that plagues the Hammerli Storm.
Hope I'm wrong about that, but if it is I doubt it would be terribly reminiscent of your '27...
Vince,
I tested the Chinese version of what appears the be the Hammerli 490. Yes, the sear was direct, but that can be changed, as well.
B.B.
JP,
I sort of did that when I listed the best buys for certain prices. Did you read that series?
B.B.
Vince,
I had a Walther LGV target rifle that only took 11 lbs. to cock. It shot .177 pellets at around 625-640 f.p.s.
B.B.
B.B.,
One other thing that I would like to mention in my experience when I was trying to make my purchasing decision is the availability (or lack) of information provided by the manufacturers online.
One thing that I appreciated about Beeman's website is that they have all of the needed information about each gun charted out right there for you - the weight, length, velocity, muzzle energy, accuracy, cocking effort, rifling, trigger type, safety, etc. I found this to be rare as most company's websites lacked a lot of this basic information. For example, what's the cocking effort for a Quest 1000? Beats me. I could probably do enough searching and find out, but having this information readily available on each of the manufacturer's web sites would have been nice.
Another thing that would have been helpful would be more and better pictures on the manufacturer's web sites. I appreciated that for most guns (but not all), Pyramyd provides a nice set of pictures if you click on "Take a closer look". This is a simple thing, but it was one of the reasons I ordered from Pyramyd - as the consumer, I really appreciated this. Would it be too hard for the companies that make the guns to do the same? Almost everywhere I looked, the company only provided a single, small picture and that was it. Again, a lot more searching and research was required that I would of liked to have found on the manufacturer's website.
B.B., when you talk to the manufacturers, please let them know that it would help people make their buying decisions if they provided all of the needed information and a nice set of pictures for each of their products on their web sites.
BB,
Am I missing something?
Why a springer? How about a single pump that uses the new lever invention you told us about? One with good quality parts. Wouldn't this fit the bill and have the advantage of not being hold sensitive?
I would like a gun like that!
.22 multi-shot
To clarify - I figure I must be overlooking something with the single pump lever idea since I don't have experience with a wide variety of airguns.
.22 multi-shot
TRC,
The Pyramyd Air website has the same specifications in a tab on the left side of the individula description page.
B.B.
B.B.,
Yep! - Pyramyd Air does a FANTASTIC job of providing all of the info and it was a blessing once I was lucky enough to come across the PA site. I think others new to airgunning (and perhaps not aware of PA) would be glad if the manufacturers provided it on their web sites.
Hi BB
I think that i haveread it somewhere that the HW30 and the Beeman R7 are the same gun? I see Pyramyd listing them as having different specs.? I love the easy shooting and accurate guns ans you mentioned they are the ones that you can shoot all day
Ton
BB,
So what do you think about a single pump that uses the lever idea from the pump-assisted Benjamin?
BB,
I think I see what I'm missing. The pump-assist reduces all the pumps to the same effort, so it is good for a multi-pump. It doesn't look like it would give an advantage to a single pump. Maybe it would be good for a PCP type multi-pump?
Sometimes the little kid comes out in me and I blurt an idea before thinking about it - LOL.
Thanks,
.22 multi-shot