Advice on pellets – for Sharon

by B.B. Pelletier

First I have to observe that we received a large number of comments on Tom Gaylord’s Wednesday post about abusing a Condor. Apparently, a lot of you have a lot to say about that rifle. Everyone kept a civil tongue, though it was apparent there were a lot of emotions behind those comments. I must observe that the discussion polarized around the same points that always seem to surround AirForce Airguns. Some of you like ‘em just the way they are, some wish the company would build them better, some wish the company would innovate more and some believe that the individual owners are doing more to advance the rifles than anyone.

The funny thing is, you don’t see this same kind of intense discussion when Falcons or Loguns are the topic. Then it’s just a discussion of the specifications and performance. That tells me that people are more interested in AirForce guns because of how they are designed and built. The guns have a large following – though not everyone is a supporter. Of course, AirForce guns out-sell other sporting PCP brands by a factor of 10 to 1 or greater in the U.S., so there’s a larger group available to make comments. Still, the mention of the AirForce brand name seems to push hot buttons all on its own.

Okay, today’s post is for Sharon at Pyramyd Air, who specifically asked me to tell you that there are other pellets besides those made by Crosman. She pointed out that I always seem to recommend Crosman Premiers among the few pellets I do recommend, but that Crosman now puts the Premier name on a lot more than just the domed pellets that come in their classic die-marked cardboard boxes.

Sharon also told me she has had a few returns of the die-marked boxes, with customer complaints of damaged pellets. That was a surprise. I have always thought the die-marked boxes of Premiers were the most perfect pellets Crosman makes. They were the finest pellets in the world in the middle ’90s, and I still have a few rifles that get better accuracy with them than any other brand of pellet. But Sharon sees the other side of the order; and if some customers are having problems, I need to take notice.

But, the basic complaint is a valid one. I do talk too much about Premiers and JSBs and not enough about pellets from Beeman, RWS, Gamo and others. So that will change. I’ll start testing guns with Beeman Silver Arrows, which Sharon assures me several of her customers thoroughly enjoy. I’ll try to interest you guys in more than just Kodiaks, Premiers and JSBs.

For starters – try the .177 RWS Supermag
RWS has a heavyweight wadcutter called the Supermag that I often use but seldom talk about. I bought 5,000 several years ago, and I’m still working on them steadily. They weigh 9.3 grains, which makes them a light heavyweight. They’re just enough to slow down the RWS/Diana 34 below 900 f.p.s., where it can really show off its accuracy potential. And, they’re great for the hot Beeman R1 for the same reason, though they may cruise right at 900 in that big bruiser.

Good for hunting
When we think of wadcutters, we think of paper targets, but the Supermag is a great short-range hunting pellet, too. Keep the range under 30 yards, and they’ll really slam your quarry with energy! The flat nose transmits energy to the target almost as well as a wadcutter. Much less chance of over-penetration, for which the .177 caliber is notorious.

At 9.3 grains, the Supermag lives in a region with few other pellets. Medium-weight pellets top out around 8.8 grains, and the heavyweights kick in around 10.2. There isn’t much to choose from at the 9-grain weight range, so these are perfectly positioned as a transitional pellet you can try.

As a final word, I will say that I am not giving up on Crosman pellets. I find the Premiers in the die-stamped boxes to still be superior, if no longer the best in the world. But, Sharon was right to point out that I oversell them to the exclusion of many other fine pellets.

70 Responses to “Advice on pellets – for Sharon”

  • Anonymous Says:

    From BLOOSTREEK—I’ve talked with Sharon several times on the phone and communicated many times by email with her. She knows her stuff right off the top of her head and there should be more like her at Pyramidair! I’ve written to you before BB mentioning how helpful, polite and knowlegable Sharon is in every aspect of her job. As an example I called a couple weeks back to b#tch about a back order or something silly and although she was obviously sick-(coughing,stuffy etc. but not home in bed–at work!)-she fixed me up quickly & cheerfully. IMO she should be training all the new employees that come to Pyramidair on how to treat their custumers. In case you can’t tell I think she’s great!–(hmmm, do I have a crush??)*LOL* Thank you Sharon & BB for all you do!!….Bloostreek@webtv.net

  • Anonymous Says:

    From BLOOSTREEK— while I’m at this here I have to give a shout out to PAUL also! He is nothing but polite, patient and very helpful. So thank you to Paul…you’re great! Sorry, no “crush” for you-(*LOL*)- but you are very much appreciated! Bloostreek@webtv.net

  • scott298 Says:

    B.B.–I have delt with sharon and Paul both and in my book there tops-too bad the Dept of Motor Vehicles doesn’t have employees like these to. I have been shooting crossman prem heavy and they have been working great-then by going with your advice I tried kodiaks and in my gun they work just a little bit better-well here is a great reason to buy a sampler pack-I bought 8 tins of jsb exacts and guess what-the jsb’s work the worse-I figured that by working up the food chain my groupings would get better and boy was I surprised with the distaste my gun has for them–like you said -just keep trying pellets to you find out which ones work best -hat’s off to the pyramyd staff-shoot syraight Scott–p.s. the location of that week long semenir–I didn’t get the email on it!

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Scott,

    I’m looking into some space on the space station.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    I often use RWS meisterkugeln in .22 for short range hunting, they slam the quarry really good.

  • Fabian Says:

    Gamo Pro Magnum looks like a good pellet, but it is hard to find in .22 in the US

  • Anonymous Says:

    Off Topic – Could you recommend a rifle for me? I followed your recommendations and set-up a Crosman 1377 with a scope and stock. Assisted by a wooden bi-pod, I am able to hit plastic golf balls at 20 yards. I am thinking about a Springer or a Benjamin 397. I shoot target and informal plinking only, out to 20 yards. I was using the peep sight on my 1377, now I find I enjoy the scope. I noticed that Crosman and Benjamin have Springers with a scope for about 200.00. How do these compare with a Beeman R7 or an HW30 or even an HW50?

    Thanks BB!

  • FOTempel Says:

    B.B.,

    Could you please disclose how independent this blog is from Pyramydair? I’m sure you love pyramydair. and they do provide you a place to write your observations, but why do they “want” you to write about other pellets than you generally prefer? Why do you all of a sudden want or need to test things with different pellets while the ones you always used are perfectly adequate? I’m not objecting, I just want to determine how I need to read your comments regarding Pyramydair…as honest observations or simply marketing.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    New rifle,

    Well, a 397 would be a very nice air rifle, but maybe it’s time to try a spring gun. Please be careful shooting golf balls as the pellet can rebound and come straight back at you.

    The cheaper spring rifles do not compare well to the R7, with the exception of a rifle I am now testing. You’ll see it next Tuesday.

    I would also like to recommend the IZH 61, unless it looks too odd for your taste. It’s wonderfully accurate.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    FOTempel,

    B.B.’s blog is supported and run by Pyramid air. He wrote a blog about it much earlier, but I can’t link you too it because I wasn’t able to go back and find it. B.B. is here to share with us (In honesty) Pyramid Air products. Along with support for our products whether we bought them from Pyramid or not. While it is a marketing campaign, its retained a level of honesty and good customer service.

    B.B. actualy takes time to answer our questions on here whether they are on topic or not. And Pyramid Air, as you read above, has supreme customer service.

    All in all, I think Pyramid is on top of its game. I’ve never experienced such thourough customer service before. I enjoy this blog very much, and enjoy shopping with Pyramid air aswell.

    B.B.
    I’ve been looking to buy a night vision scope from Pyramid. Perhaps you could shed some light on some of these products? Most of them are due in on May. That would be an interesting topic.

    ~Air Gunner

  • FOTempel Says:

    I never said I didn’t appreciate or enjoy this blog. I just want to know how much value I need to put into mentions of Pyramydair, that’s all.

    And regarding Pyramydair itself…I know they have a great offering, and I’m sure they have a good pre- and aftersales as well. But since I’m not from the US, I’m confronted with prohibitive shipping costs calculated by Pyramydair, so I can’t say I’ve much experience in that department.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Bummer

  • Anonymous Says:

    BB – with regard to recommending an airgun for informal target and plinking at 20 yards, I agree, I would like to try a Springer. For my interests, I find it difficult to justify the cost of an R7. I look forward to reading about the less expensive springer that compares favorably with the R7.

    The IZH 61 is rated at less fps that my 1377. I would like something with a bit more punch – 700 to 800 fps.

    As far as golf balls, thank you for your concern and no, I will not “put your eye out, kid.” I shoot at plastic, hollow, practice golf balls. Not the whiffle balls, but the ones that look like golf balls. When hit squarely, the pellet actually goes into the ball and will not exit.

    I have a bunch of other fun targets, balloons, clay disks (my wife is a ceramic artist), pressurized plastic juice bottles (no more than 30 lbs pressure!), a pop can hung from a string inside my target trap and a small aluminum square mounted on the back of the target trap behind a paper target mounted on cardboard, makes a great ricochet sound when you hit a bullseye, deforms the pellet so it is trapped behind the cardboard.

  • GadgetHead Says:

    Great idea, Sharon and B.B.,

    I hadn’t noticed Pyramyd Air has increased the number of pellet brands being stocked. So many similar, but different, pellets to choose from and so little time!

    My last order I purchased some BEEMAN “Field Target Special” (FTS) and “Ram Jet” (RJ) pellets, in various calibers. I haven’t had time to try them, but the FTS pellets seem quite popular with some airgunners.

    The RJ pellets look interesting because of the sharply defined wadcutter-like edge around the dome. I’m hoping they’ll have good accuracy at longer distance than typical with wadcutter pellets, and will also make a crisp, round hole in paper targets. Don’t know if that’s true, yet.

    Cheers,
    GH

  • Anonymous Says:

    BB: On the subject of other pellets. I’d like to add the Beeman Ramjet to the list of a nicely designed pellet to be used for both target and hunting. It has good penetration on squirrels and pests, is one of my “go to” pellets when I test out a new rifle for accurracy outdoors at my 25yd range. They are the most accurate pellet I’ve used in my Crosman Airmaster 77, and my .177 cal R-10 so far.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    FOTempel,

    I was knocked off the internet for a few hours, so my delayed answer should not be interpreted as anything excpt the delay it was.

    Nobody tells me what to write, but most folks at Pyramyd Air do read this blog. The customer service representatives notice that a lot of customers follow my recommendations, and Sharon was simply asking me to broaden my range of pellets.

    She and I do not entirely agree on the subject of Crosman pellets, but since she talks to hundreds of customers each week, I value her perspective.

    I will never recommend what I think is a bad pellet, but I might very well test some bad ones for you. And, as two readers have already observed, there are other favored pellets that I will test. If they perform, fine. If not, you’ll hear about it.

    Regarding the marketing question, OF COURSE this blog is a marketing tool for Pyramyd Air. Just as the Ronald McDonald House is a PR tool for McDonald’s. And the fact that I can and do admit that to you and everyone else who reads this blog means you can gauge what I say by my level of openness.

    The purpose of this blog is to assist interested parties in locating the kinds of guns, pellets and equipment they want to buy, and also to educate the new shooter and airgunner without the harassment of the forums.

    I’m not selling anything. I’m telling you how each of these products works for me. And that helps people decide, which can be a powerful sales tool – but only to those parties who already have an interest.

    Look at it this way, I am the lady who prepares meals in the kitchen store to sell the cookware. If you don’t like the pots and pans, don’t buy. But please don’t picket the store because they had the audacity to do something extra for their customers.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    New rifle,

    Okay, then I say wait for my review next Tuesday. It’s a great little rifle that I think is much nicer than the low price would lead you to believe.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    bb cant wait to learn about this new rifle!!!
    also any plans for the how glasses efect sights blog? im very intrested in this topic

    Field Targetier

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    GH,

    I actually tested the Marksman Silhouette pellet in .20 caliber some months ago. I had lamented the loss of the Crosman Premier in .20 caliber and Pyramyd Air gave me a tin of .20 caliber Silhouettes to test. I hear they are not much different than the FTS, and if that’s true, the FTS should be a nice pellet.

    The Ram Jets I have a little experience with. They never performed well for me in powerful springers like the Beeman R1, but in PCPs they did better. In fact, I should retest them in the coming weeks to see where the are with some different rifles.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Field Targetier,

    How glasses affect sights? Wow! You don’t ask for much.

    I’m not sure I’m the right guy for the job. Surely we must have an eye doctor reading this blog. Perhaps he or she could setp in and help out?

    The reason I shy away is because of all the variables. What kind of vision problem do you have; how bad is it; is there more than one problem; were you a good shooter to begin with?

    If you can’t play the piano after breaking your fingers, it’s important to know whether you could play it before.

    B.B.

  • FOTempel Says:

    B.B.,

    Your delay doesn’t bother me, I do allow some people toilet visits and even sleep sometime!

    Thank you for your explanation. Some people read more into my question(s) and inquiries then there is. I don’t think I’ve mentioned picketing anything, or boycotting anyone or accusing anyone of anything at all. I just want to gauge bias, and you’ve explained how the relation works in your comment. That’s sufficient for me.

    If Pyramydair would offer affordable shipping, I’d surely consider them as supplier, regardless of what you write about them. I can do my own research, and your blog is just one of the resources I use…

    Thanks again.

  • Anonymous Says:

    OK, seems like a good time (again) to ask Pyramid to offer USPS shipping to Hawaii. Their current shipping costs are often more than the item I want to purchase. This effectively keeps me from ordering from them, which I would love to do. How about it, Pyramid? Please give us Hawaiian islanders a break, eh?

    -Joe

  • Anonymous Says:

    ok i remember you said something about the glasses issue in the past so i was just wondering. like would paralax be moe effected looking through glasses and a scope. or would anything change if you went from glasses to contacts?
    i just remembered you saying something about a posting in the past.

    Field Targetier

  • Don Says:

    B.B. RWS .177 Supermags are great pellets. They are great for my DU10 pistol, which desires a heavier pellet.

  • ABTOMAT Says:

    You’ll have to forgive me for posting an off-topic comment, but there are only so many active threads. I was wondering if at some point you might devote an article to the current state of the venerable pump pneumatic rifle. The design has long been a favorite of mine for its versatility, but with the popularity of PCPs in the ’90s they’re a dying breed. Now it seems they only remain as 10-meter guns and beginner’s toys. The days of guns in the class of the Daystate Sportsman and Sharp Ace appear over.

    As some who’s actually trying to buy a quality pump it’s nearly impossible to find much information from the last ten years or so. I’m sure others would be interested in an outline of the current situation, both new and used.

    Thanks

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    You speak of the venerable multi-pump pneumatic, but then you mention the Daystate Sportsman and the Sharp Ace – neither of which is in the same class as the Crosman, Sheridan and Benjamin classics. What do you want to know about – the classic multi-pumps or the best multi-pumps ever built? I have written quite a lot about the classics already and you can access that through the find function on the main Blog page.

    I haven’t yet done the Daystate Sportsman or the Sharp Ace, but I’ve owned several Aces and a Sportsman Mk II so I can do either or both.

    What are looking for?

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Field Targetier,

    I really don’t knoiw the answer to your questions, but I know a top eye surgeon who might. I’ll ask her.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Ya well I my oppinion, I would never spend money on these other “fine” pellets, most european airgun makers over price their products(lets face it), and in my oppinion, are not worth spending the money, not so much the guns, all though those are over priced too, they have alot of quality at least. But as far as pellets go, I wouldn’t spend 8 bucks on logun pellets that aren’t as good as crosman premiers.

    Maybe there are other good pellets out there too, but what is the point in wasteing money on overpriced pellets.

    Jones.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Unfortunately, looks like a bunch of people from the airgun forums came in on Tom Gaylord’s post about abusing the Condor.

    There 75 posts, most of them were stupid, harsh, childish, and out in out lies in whick people were bashing each other and liying not only to others, but too themselves as well.

    Not too mention making themselves look like utter fools.

    B.B. too bad they are allowed to post their disgracefull comments in a place like this where you show the truth and intelligent reveiws on airguns.

    Ryan

  • Anonymous Says:

    This doesn’t pertain to the Condor, but I got tired of scouring the internet for an answer.

    I just bought a Beeman GH950 from Cabela’s, and i want to mount a sling on it. I don’t know how to mount a sling on a break barrel. Do you put a band around the barrel and a screw in the butt, or try to put a screw in the stock somewhere? If anyone could help me out that would be great.

    Thanks, andrew

  • FOTempel Says:

    Jones,

    In general, everything is more expensive in europe, so pellets and airguns aren’t any different. Always has been the case, and with the dollar losing ground, it’ll stay that way for you.

    “overpricing” is relative. I’m sure they do tack up a little profit, but don’t forget that labour and materials here are wildly expensive too. Even though we’re far away, we’re not China…not yet anyway :)

    Anywaym time to figure out how to restore a Sheridan Blue Streak which doesn’t hold air…

  • GadgetHead Says:

    B.B. Pelletier said… “… I should retest them in the coming weeks to see where the are with some different rifles…”

    Thanks B.B.. Every little bit helps.

    I don’t remember if I mentioned it… I think not. Last year I bought a .20 cal. Beeman R9 from Pyramyd Air and sent it to Paul Watts for his advanced tune. Oh man! It looks like a new, unmodified R9 but to describe the cocking and firing strokes… I… err… For some reason I can’t find adequate superlatives to describe the results of what Paul did to it. It’s magical!

    Yikes! I should pay more attention to weather forecast reports. I had planned working in the yard this weekend, and shooting some FTS & RJ pellets. Too cold, wet and windy outside for these old bones!

    Cheers,
    GH

  • ABTOMAT Says:

    Thanks. I had meant “venerable pump pneumatic” in reference to the design idea itself, not any specific gun. Used to be gaining in popularity with quality guns until the PCP and high-power springers became the hot sellers. Now it seems like nearly all the good ones have dissapeared. Lots of quality rifles that few people know about.

    My hope was for some kind of short overview of what’s out there in terms of new or used pump rifles, excluding the low-end Daisys and Crosmans and the like, and the ones you’ve previously covered (Daisy 9/8/753, Sheridan, etc.) I’ve heard plenty of names of various models, but finding descriptions of them or opinions has proven to be hard. I gather the Daystate and Sharp models were some of the more popular.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Andrew,

    Installing a sling on a breakbarrel is a tricky job. Beeman has a clamp that attaches to the barrel. As long as you only use the sling to carry and not for support, that will work.

    B.B.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    ABTOMAT,

    Okay, I will add several multi-pumps to the list. But the Daisy 7/8/953 are single strokes and deserve to be in a different report.

    B.B.

  • ABTOMAT Says:

    If you felt like doing another report in the future I’d be curious to hear about single-stroke models. Seems like there are quite a few of those that’re out of the public eye, too.

    Thanks

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    ABTOMAT,

    Let me look at what I have done in the past. Maybe there is something that hasn’t been said yet on single strokes.

    B.B.

  • Anonymous Says:

    “The cheaper spring rifles do not compare well to the R7, with the exception of a rifle I am now testing. You’ll see it next Tuesday.”

    is it the Mendoza RM-200? Just guessing. cant wait untill tuesday :)
    S.D.

  • Anonymous Says:

    I JUST BOUGHT A DIANA MOD 20 IN CANADA I LOVE IT SWEET LITTLE GUN, MY QUESTION IS WHY DOES THE .177 CALIBER PENETRATE BETTER THAN THAN MY SONS .22 HATSAN MOD. 60

  • Anonymous Says:

    golgo
    Hey! speaking of the logan penetrator BB.i know that your not supposed to shoot pellets faster then the speed of sound because of the shock wave hitting on the tail end of the skirt causeing turbulance and knocking the pellet off its axis point.But since the logan penetrator is much more stream lined than any diablo pellets around,their pretty much a bullet with 2 slight grip pionts on them at the head and tail for easy loading and to engage the rifling of the gun but other than that slight change their bullets.So any ways lets get to the point are the penetrators more stable in super sonic(and transonic) flight than the reguler pellets or are they deflected by the shock wave just as any other pellet.these pellets might be real good in high powered guns like the Gamo hunter extreme and condors if it can with stand the shock wave that is creaded by it self and built of pressure at its nose cone.whats your 2 cents on this one or am i just shooting in the dark here?

  • Anonymous Says:

    Thanks B.B.

    andrew

  • Anonymous Says:

    how bout tha fx air guns revolution? looks interesting, multi shot, 32 fp, supposed match acuracy. Its mutch like a domin8or but semi auto 12 shot.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Diana 20,

    Penetration is based on retained energy. So the pellet that retains energy the best (and has the greatest amout of it) will penetrate the farthest.

    B.B.

  • Jones Says:

    Personally, I think the gamo hunter extreme is a marketing gimic, 1600 fps is bull*hit, and gamo fanboys wonder why there’s can’t get 1600 fps? Because they DONT get that high.

    Besides any gun that power must be available in .22 cal, not even the heaviest .177 pellets in a gun thats actually that powerfull would be below supersonic and therefore making the gun crap beyond short range. Any gun at that power is more usefull at .22 then .177.

    Then why would gamo only make it available in .177 caliber?

    Well the gun is exactly that, a marketing gimic, its all about the FPS which everyone is obssesed with. Even though if it was available in .22 it would be better do to more accuracy(because in .22 moderate to heavy pellets would be around 800 – 900 fps utmost accuracy)

    So obviously they make the gun because they know it will sell, not to think twice about that owners won’t be getting a gun as good as they expect.

    Plus, the gun won’t achieve 1600 fps anyway which is false advertising just for more sales.

  • Anonymous Says:

    i hate gamo! they lie and they just want to sell guns not give people a good product.

    -sumo

  • Jones Says:

    Its all about marketing my friend, thankfully not all companies are that way.

    In the end they will lose money, only the ignorant will fall into their trap. Which unfortunately is alot of people who buy airguns. But as I said, overtime, that marketing trick only works for so long, eventually people cath on and realize the truth.

    Gamo used to be decent, but in recent years, they’ve changed their marketing technique towards the scam sdide of things.

    Luckily there are many other airgun makers out there that still have great products as good as they are actually advertised.

    Thats one thing I gotta give to the expensive European gun makers. Even though I dont like their high prices, at least you get a well made gun as good as it should be.

  • Anonymous Says:

    i dont know how it could be a bad thing to get lower fps. Thats whats more accurate. Whats worse, a pellet almost hiting you at 1450 (gamo hunter extreme) fps or a pellet hitting you smack in the eye at 950 ( S410ERB by Air Arms .22 caliber). I would say the one that hits you. Look at the rapter pellet. The tail is noticibly wider than the front peice. The sound waves will hit the skirt / tail so hard. The hunter extreme is abou 23 foot pounds with a raptor. With a crosman p. it should get about 28 foot pounds. that is no increased energy. I like that power or more for hunting but use a heavier pellit or larger caliber for more power.

  • Anonymous Says:

    1450 is with the raptor., as i have said b4 few hundred fps tamato toomato. gamo cant reley on everyone being ignorent, they will get thrown out of the industry.

  • Anonymous Says:

    sorry the last 2 were me sumo

    -sumo

  • Anonymous Says:

    i think gamo is going up for sale. ITS ONE OF THE LARGEST in the industry so who could buy it? No clue. i guess 120 million or so would get you the gamo name. Who would want that for any price. They do own webly and scott. Thats why i have not purchased a raider venom.

  • dm20 Says:

    but, doesnt penetration also depend on frontal surface area and the degree of deformation? if you factor those in, shouldn’t a .177 pellet with the same energy and shape as a .22 pellet penetrate deeper?

  • Anonymous Says:

    yes, surface area has much to do with penitration. Thats what distiglishes foot pounds from inch pounds. THats also why a needel will penitrate your skin with less effort than a car key or evan a flat surface. somthing that gets thicker more gragualy will also penitrate with more ease even though the point of the object meets at the same flawless point the over all object will be flater. the narrower the pellet is the less friction it will get on its sides because there is less surface area rubbing against the victum or target.

    -sumo

  • Anonymous Says:

    dm20
    i agree with sumo. think about it a .177 pellet has much less surface area so it penetrates easier like a needle. a .22 pellet has alot more surface area so theres more contact with the quary. this stops the pellet faster so it doesnt penetrate as deep. think of it as a .177 as a needle and a .22 as a knitting needle. which would be eisier to push through a squirell?

    Field Targetier

  • Anonymous Says:

    (On the flip side of things)
    A 22 caliber has more energy because it is heavyer and it lets out more energy in its target because it is wider. Having energy and how energy is dispersed are 2 different things. The bigest 22 cal are about 30g but the bigest 177 are 16g. The 22 is about twice the g as the 177 but is not near twice the width. because of this the 22 lets out a higher % of its energy than 177 but still has more energy after its though its target or continuing into its target. = 22 penitrates deeper than 177 if all components of the gun are the same. (example) 177 webley patriot VS. 22 patriot. The pellet being a CROSMAN .177 Premier Domed Light 8g in the 177 and ROSMAN .22 Premier Domed 14.3g. The 22 would penitrate deeper and do more more damige on the way.

    -sumo

  • Anonymous Says:

    Oh no!!! i have bottled my own mind!!!

    I think im correct on some of this stuff but dont bet on it

    -sumo

  • Anonymous Says:

    when we hunt rabbits ext,if we take head only shots,does it matter what size pellet we use,as it only takes 4ftlbs of energy on target to obtain a cleen kill!

  • Anonymous Says:

    Here in the uk,we are only allowed to use airguns ,witch produce up to, and no more than 12ftlbs of energy,any pellet in the 14.5 to18.5 in grains ,will carry enough energy out to 40 yrds to get a cleen kill with a head shot,so why do people insist on the need for speed.

  • Anonymous Says:

    Hi guys,
    My friend and I are using crossman pointed hunters in a Cf-x and a varmint hunter but they just plain suck. They are all over the place. Are we doing anything wrong.
    They seem to shoot better when loaded backwards.
    Are they just bad?

    AJs

  • dm20 Says:

    ah, right- i didnt factor in the greater inertia of the .22. so in the end, i guess the .22 still penetrates deeper simply because of better efficiency with the power plant. makes sense!

  • Anonymous Says:

    why dident i just sum it up and say that

    -sumo

  • Anonymous Says:

    To anonymous up top somewhere:::: There has never been and still isn’t a multi pump that can touch the .20 Sheridans Streaks..Yes, the Benji 392/397 are there but just not quite the same. ..MarylandSteve

  • frankt Says:

    I just received two boxes of Crosman Premier Domed Heavy 10.5 grain pellets to shoot in my new Gamo Hunter sport. I tried them out today. These pellets have a coating on them that leaves an oily residue in the breach after firing. They also cause an oily type smell -not a burning smell, but just an odd oil type smell in the air. Is this a cause for concern? Is this dieseling and will it cause any damage to the rifle?

  • Anonymous Says:

    frankt,

    my springer does the same thing with those pellets. I have shot the gun with faster pellets and it does not have that smell and I have shot the gun with heavier pellets. It only does it with crosman pellets. So it is not a function of velocity. I dont have a gamo either so it is not that. I have a daisy 1000s. Its junk, even more so when its compared to my career 707.

    -sumo

  • frankt Says:

    -sumo

    I shot several hundred Gamo Rockets that did not exhibit this behavior. I really like this Gamo Hunter I just got and want to be sure I am not doing anything to cause damage. Maybe I will call Pyramyd and ask if they know anything about this situation with the Crosman Premiers.. It just doesn’t seem normal to have oil in the breach. It gets heavy enough after 25 rounds that I have to wipe it out with a cloth.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    frankt,

    The smell comes from the gun, not the pellets. The 10.5 pellets are causing your rifle to diesel. Use lighter pellets and the problem should clear up.

    B.B.

  • frankt Says:

    - BB

    I used some 7.7 grain Crosman Competition Wad-cutters this morning and the same situation occurred. I also tried some 7.9 grain Daisy Precision Max Flat points with the same results. It seems that any pellet with an oily antioxidant coating produces this smell. In your opinion will this problem cause damage to the rifle? The Gamo Hunter is still pretty new. I have fired it about 500 times so far so I am trying to be very cautious. I never get an explosive(detonating) type of dieseling – just the smell of warm oil. Where I live I have no close source to purchase any different brands of pellets. I must mail order everything I need.

    I really appreciate your help and interest.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    Frank,

    I assure you it’s the rifle and not the pellet that’s doing this.

    No, it shouldn’t hurt the gun. Gamos are supposed to take dry-firing, so dieseling a little shouldn’t hurt them.

    Just keep shooting the rifle and if it has the problem after 3,000 shots, then we must be concerned.

    B.B.

  • frankt Says:

    B.B.,

    Thanks again for the quick answer and your help. From reading this site I trust your opinion very much. I will go ahead and shoot the 2500 10.5 Premiers I bought and see what happens. I do like the way they shoot and this Hunter is an excellent gun for me. Very tight groups (less than 1″) at 10 and 25 yards for a shaky old man like me and I feel it will get better with practice. I was getting good accuracy with the Gamo 9.5 Rockets as well but they are expensive for me. I prefer the heavier pellets as I have a problem with tree dwelling rodents in the 23 oak trees on my property. The heavier pellets seem to work better.

    Thanks again for your advice and time.

  • taz000726 Says:

    hi, can someone tell me what the hell diesling is and if it causes damage to the gun? i cannot seem to find an answer and i have just bought this cool DB4 rifle and want it to last.

  • B.B. Pelletier Says:

    taz,

    I have addressed dieseling several times. Here is the best reference:

    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/11/lubricating-your-spring-gun-part-1.html

    I have never done a post dedicated to the subject, though, so I’ll get to it this week.

    B.B.

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