RWS Model LP8 Magnum – Part 1

by B.B. Pelletier


The .177 RWS LP8 pistol is a big, beautiful spring pistol.

You knew I would get to the RWS Model LP8 Magnum because I’m also testing the Browning 800 Mag, and the two are related in many reader’s minds. This pistol is made by Diana in Germany, but it bears a lot of resemblance to the Browning. It’s big, at 3.2 lbs. and 18 inches long, it’s black and it claims a velocity of 700 f.p.s. Like the Browning, the RWS LP8 is also a breakbarrel, but that’s where the similarity ends.

This gun has very little in the way of synthetic parts. The fully adjustable fiberoptic sights have plastic fiberoptic tubes, of course, but even their mounts are made of metal. It is as if someone in Germany is listening to the world’s airgunners.

The LP8 has no cocking aide, though a preliminary examination of the gun suggests that it could use one. Make no mistake that this is an adult air pistol and not suited to youngsters. I do know, however, that the cocking effort will get easier with time, and also the owner soon learns the exact geometry to make cocking possible with the least effort.

This is a new model for Diana, but a continuation of the line of breakbarrel pistols they’ve been making since 1907. The model immediately before this one was the P5 Magnum, another large breakbarrel pistol that was also rated at 700 f.p.s., but the gun I tested did not achieve that velocity.

The LP8 retails for $289.25 as of this report, which is slightly more than the last price for the P5 Magnum. Even so, those who have rated it give it high marks for accuracy and power, as well as for how well made they feel it is. Criticisms have been leveled at the non-adjustable trigger for being too stiff. In my experience, Diana triggers always need time to break in.

Trigger
The two-stage trigger on the test gun is superb! It’s one of the finest sporting spring air pistol triggers I’ve used–very light and crisp. And the firing behavior is solid with almost no vibration. I can see how an owner would grow to love this pistol.

Safety
The safety is automatic and also ambidextrous! The latter was a complete surprise. Other than the Beeman P1, I don’t think I’ve seen an ambidextrous safety on another spring pistol. Like the safety on the P1, this one can be operated by the trigger finger, so there’s no need to waste time shifting hands to take off the safety.

Scope rail
One novel feature is the presence of an 11mm dovetail rail set atop the receiver, making this pistol acceptable to optical sights. Indeed, at least one reviewer has mounted a scope on his gun. I doubt I’ll do that, because I find pistol scopes to be incongruous; but I’ll devote the time to make the iron sights do their job. Some of the reviewers rate it as being accurate, but one says it isn’t. I suspect his problem stems from trying to shoot a spring gun directly off sandbags, which is an accuracy destroyer.

Grips
The grips are new from Diana. They feature finger grooves and a slight palm swell. There’s also a vestigial thumbrest that serves as a trigger finger guide on the other side of the gun. The grips are fully ambidextrous.

General feel of the gun
Most shooters will like the feel of the LP8. Though it’s a big, heavy pistol, the grip and trigger relationship is well designed, so the gun feels smaller than it really is. It sits heavy in the hand; and as long as you don’t try to rest it on anything, it should be pretty accurate for you.

72 thoughts on “RWS Model LP8 Magnum – Part 1

  1. Good morning B.B.,

    A very small question please– are the grips made of wood? Thank you sir.

    twotalon–hope all is well with you sir.

    Mr B.


  2. B.B.,
    Another Tuesday morning to wake up dissapointed by checking my order on pyramyd for JSB .177 heavies :( This is the fourth time that the backorder date has been changed on me…7/7 was the original in stock date then it got moved to 7/14 then 7/21 then 7/28 and now 8/4. I know that in stock dates are sometimes hard to predict but come on?? I was a scheduler for a machine shop for 8 years and if I was this unreliable in telling John Deere, Case, and Harley Davidson buyers when their parts would be ready I think we would have lost a lot of business. All I'm asking is for a little better promise dates on my orders because this isn't the first time it has happened. I was also wondering if this is a full time job to predict those in stock dates because I'm starting to have as much faith in them as the local weather man.



  3. Mr. B.
    Better than expected ….considering the horror stories.
    Chemo does unexpected things…none of them pleasant.

    Have a new TT 106 gm hammer to install when I get the ambition.

    twotalon




  4. twotalon,

    I don't know alot about the why's of changing hammer weights. Can you send me someplace where I can "learn up" about the theory/relationships between hammer weights, spring strenght, valve construction and tophat settings. Is there a formula that ties all these variables together? Thank you sir.

    Mr B.


  5. Mr B.
    I don't have a good place to look for that info.

    The object in my case was to get a one piece hammer that was as close as possible in weight to a Talon hammer and Condor hammer weight put together.
    I did not like the sound and feel of the hammer weight scraping inside the frame.

    twotalon


  6. Wayne,
    Thank you very much for the offer and that is VERY cool of you but I am just going to ride the storm out. I have been having good luck with Kodiaks in my Discovery but I just wanted to try out the JSB's since I have heard good things about them from B.B. and many others. Thank you again for offering to trade or sell some to me.

    David





  7. david…don't blame Pryamyd just yet. I'm sure most retailers are suffering the same fate as we are, in the camera biz.
    Canon (for example) has said that in the current economic crisis they would rather under-produce and have customers wait an indeterminite about of time for product than for them to end up with stock on the shelf that doesn't sell.
    Consider yourself lucky…you're waiting for pellets. I have clients who have prepaid for the Canon 5D MkII ($3000.00) who are being told by Canon that the wait may be 2 weeks…or 4 months.
    I'm a firm believer that we who have grown up in the fast-food/1-hr photo generation have lost a very important attribute….patience.
    CowBoyStar Dad


  8. B.B.,
    Have you ever heard of using dielectric grease on the piston seal instead of Moly paste. This is the stuff you get at the auto parts store to put in the spark plug boot before you put the boot on the spark plug. What would be the advantage over Moly paste. If it worked its way in front of the piston would the rifle diesel/detonate more or less than Moly paste.


  9. Cowboy Star Dad,
    I understand what you are saying about not blaming pyramyd for lack of stock. I am not upset about them not having my items at all. What I am upset about is not having a more realistic in-stock date and changing it 4 times on me already. At least Canon is telling you up to 4 months wait time. If pyramyd would have been a little more honest about their dates then I would have NO problem but to just keep saying ONE MORE WEEK 4 different times seems a little absurd to me. Even if they would say six months for the wait time I think it would be better to have an honest time frame for their customers. I have two daughters and a wife so I live with all women in my household. Just trying to get them all ready to go somewhere can take a long time so I definitely know about patience:)


  10. David, I truly appreciate your pain (and I find one woman in the house bad enough).
    But considering Pyramyd's usual exemplary service I stand by by my earlier post.
    I imagine they are stuck between the proverbial 'rock and a hard place'.
    The manufacturer tells them they hope to have stock in a week. Pyramyd themselves may not believe this but what are they going to do? If they tell you the manufacturer tells them a week, but they think it will be a month they stand the chance that you'll just say 'okay, I'll place my order with dealer B who says they'll have it in a week'…knowing full well they won't.
    Again, I'm not particularily defending Pyramyd…it's just that of late the manufactures are in such a crunch that they are not always up front with their dealers…meaning we suffer.
    CowBoyStar Dad


  11. Gerry,

    Most dielectric grease is 100% silicone. Check yours. Most guys put the silicone grease on the backside of piston seals and some even lube their o rings on their pcp's (instead of using divers silicone) and report no problems. Moly grease/paste is usually reserved for metal to metal contact.

    Many tuners, including maccarii, rich in mich, etc. sell a lube kit that usually consists of 4 parts:

    1-Grease for synthetics, use this wherever a synthetic contacts another synthetic or metal material
    2- Spring tar, lightly coat the OUTSIDE surface of the spring with this stuff…a little goes a long way, too much and your gun will slow down and shoot inconsistent velocities.
    3- The black stuff is Moly grease for metal to metal contact surfaces;
    4-the clear is pure silicone grease for the back side of the piston seal.
    Read around and you will get many different ideas on how to use this stuff and in what areas and proportions. I think everyone has their own little mixes and techniques. Most guys in the northern climates are putting very, very light tar on the front half (piston side) of the spring as the really cold temps goop up the tar and make the gun slow and inconsistent.

    I'm no expert so I hope others, especially Vince & B.B., will chime in with their opinions.

    kevin


  12. Gerry, some guys have recommended that, and a couple of years ago it was something of the 'rage'. But frankly the stuff doesn't lubricate that well, and yes, it can still diesel.

    With regards to Moly paste, Maccari recommends a light smear of it on his seals before installation. Ignition of the the moly itself is not really an issue, but the petroleum-based lubricant used as a carrier burns far more easily. But in a good moly paste the actual moly makes up 65-70% of the paste, so it's not nearly as likely to cause problems as regular grease. And once the moly gets burnished into the metal it continues to work as a lubricant long after the grease part is wiped or burned away.

    So I would suggest sticking with Maccari's recommendations.



  13. Everyone,

    Here's a reader that posted a question under an older article. I've answered his question about the artillery hold but would like your help in answering his gun choices. Here's his post:

    thanks for your comments if there is a better place to post these questions please send me a link and I will use it,expanding a little,Im after the squirrels in my trees that pick the pine cones apart.and get into the eves of my house.accuracy and kill power are the most important to me,its not cool when they fall out of the trees and flop around in the street here in my neighborhood.are 22 cal more powerful even though they are slower? are they the more accurate round in this price range?noise is a slight concern but all the springers seem to be about the same. this is the one I was using I found very accurate even off the same bench
    http://www.pyramydair.com/p/beeman-ss1000-s-air-rifle-dual-caliber.shtml#readReviews,seems to have good reviews and price is very nice. the rs2 is nice and the rs3 really looks nice and is what im leaning towards in my price range. Is there anything out there more accurate than this for less than 200?
    I was unaware you cant shoot a springer from a bench? I searched for the artillery hold you mentioned and came up with nothing relevant what is it?


  14. B.B.

    Nice gun, but the P1 still seems to be the standard. Regarding yesterday's comment about your windy range, reading David Tubb has almost got me in to a frame of mind to want wind to try my store of wind-reading techniques. My list so far is:

    -quartering winds get half value of crosswinds
    -watch the behavior of mirage
    -value close wind more than far wind
    -observe cycles of wind change that tend to last 6-10 minutes
    -be aggressive in correcting for wind, for instance after one sighter in wind, make a full sight correction onto the x-ring to tell how much wind is affecting your shot (this assumes a good ability to call your shots)

    I wonder if all this stuff works as well for airguns as high power.

    Regarding, the unpredictable stock dates from PA, I don't know the exact situation, and I can see how repeated changes to weekly predictions can get frustrating. But I have found the same with ammo sellers suggesting that the source of the problem is not PA. Back in January, my Black Hills ammo was supposed to come in within a matter of 2-3 weeks, then definitely by the end of June, then probably by the end of July. My Federal Power-Shocks may be in by Halloween and may not be.

    BG_Farmer, you're pretty much there with the Savage BV which makes me wonder why one would pay the additional $1500 for an Anschutz 1907. Much of the answer must lie in the adjustability of the stock. I tended to think of this as a last refinement to shooting, but for Tubb and Nancy Tompkins, a perfectly adjusted stock is the starting point. Without it, go home. That would be a sort of lifetime goal to get a rifle that is perfectly adjusted for ME. :)

    More miscellany from the top shooters. Even Nancy Tompkins shooting from prone says there is a wobble area that you have to compensate for. If she and Tubb identify this, it must exist. The message is to shoot with your wobble rather than to suppress it.

    Also, a surprising, almost novelistic turn in the Tubb book. After chapters of mind-numbing preparation about everything under the sun, it turns out that (with preparations in place) Tubb shoots with untamed aggression! He says that his shot is off within 10 seconds of closing the bolt, and unless there's a change to his wind-reading, his next bullet is hitting the target within seconds after that. He will shoot off what I'm guessing is 20 shots in a high power stage in 7-9 minutes. So, what's emerging from all of this is that the sport of shooting is for the meticulously prepared, the utterly cool, the completely decisive…. I like it. :)

    Matt61


  15. Gerry,

    I was perhaps the guy recommending dielectric grease for tuning a spring gun. However, I'd never recommend it for lubing the piston seal. Dielectric grease should only be applied to a moly-lubed main spring in small amounts to help damp spring vibration. Essentially, I don't advocate using it as a lube–just as a damping medium.

    After reading what you're trying to accomplish with the tune, I can tell you that any spring damping agent (Maccari tar, heavy tar, dielectric, etc…) is only going to slow your gun down.

    If you're after the fastest spring gun in town, the thinnest possible burnish of moly on the spring and seal is about the best you're going to do for pure speed. Any excess lube will cause velocity to suffer. It's also likely that the thin moly treatment alone will cause a rather harsh firing cycle. I'd expect it to be twangy at the least.

    I'll give up 30 or 50 fps+ to get the gun to shoot more smoothly, as I think that a more balanced set of characteristics results in an easier to shoot gun from an accuracy standpoint.

    For what it's worth…

    Derrick


  16. OT…well there you go. It was just announced this morning that Canon's profits so far this year are down 86%.
    Ouch!!
    CowBoyStar Dad



  17. BB,
    For some reason the styling reminded me of Logan's Run, probably more a symptom of my mental decline than any actual stylistic cues:).

    Matt,
    The Annie is a thoroughbred, while the BV is just a good horse:).


  18. Im after the squirrels in my trees that pick the pine cones apart.and get into the eves of my house.accuracy and kill power are the most important to me,its not cool when they fall out of the trees and flop around in the street here in my neighborhood.are 22 cal more powerful even though they are slower? are they the more accurate round in this price range?noise is a slight concern but all the springers seem to be about the same. this is the one I was using I found very accurate even off the same bench
    http://www.pyramydair.com/p/beeman-ss1000-s-air-rifle-dual-caliber.shtml#readReviews,seems to have good reviews and price is very nice. the rs2 is nice and the rs3 really looks nice and is what im leaning towards in my price range. Is there anything out there more accurate than this for less than 200?
    I was recommended the rws 34p in the other blog but I would need it with a scope,so i see it on the site for 249 with the leapers scope and droop compensator. If noise was not a issue would I be better off with the rs3,or better off still paying 50 extra for the rws. it looks like both guns have very good accuracy reviews although the rws has much more of them.

    I was shooting off a soft foam block with no front hand contact with the other gamo guns and getting really crappy results at 25 yrds.I may have been pulling it to tight to my shoulder,I will try your hold and see how much better results I will get with my new gun
    thanks for the help


  19. BB,
    Any clue as to what that little screw does under the trigger of the LP8? I've tried adjusting mine, but cant seem to find out what it does, and there's no mention of it in the manual provided with the pistol.
    –Davee1

    ps…I like my LP8!!!




  20. B.B.,

    What is a fair price for my lightly used (under 300 shots), excellent condition P8? I was thinking about $210 or $220.

    Thanks.

    - Dr. G.




  21. To Anonymous regarding the dual-caliber Beeman:

    I have one–made in China–and it is a piece of junk. My advice is to decide which caliber you want to use and buy that gun; if you change barrels, you have to re-zero the rifle. The set-screw that holds the barrel in place on my gun kept coming loose, so I Lock-tited it in, and now the gun is a .22 only. It shoots erratically, despite my having tightened all the screws and cleaned the barrel.

    I have a Beeman R7 and a Air Arms TX200, but my favorite guns are both made by Mendoza: An Air Venturi Avengr 1100, and a Mendoza RM-600. The two-piece triggers on both guns are excellent. Of the two, I prefer the Avenger because it is a prettier gun and it is slightly more accurate.

    Caveats: the Avenger and the RM-600 are the same gun; the difference is in the stock. The Avenger's is fancier and is PA $159, while the 600's is PA $162.95. The guns shoot high with the OEM open sights. I had to remove the sights, file the "feet" off the elevation ramp, and "re-form" [bend] the rear sight downward to get in the black. Both guns are now scoped, so the open sights are not a factor.

    If you are hunting squirrels, I recommend a .22 caliber gun.

    –Witt



  22. I will take a look at both of those also,I am wanting a 22 cal for sure.I wasnt planning on buying the multi cal but just had much better luck with the 22 beeman than the viper gamo and Remington I tried prev.Im tired of trying out guns that dont shoot accurate and dependable every time. Im also concerned about having to shoot a gun a few hundred times to break it in.I just want something that shoots accurate out of the box


  23. Anonymous with the squirrel problem getting advice on several springers,

    Please give us a name to know who we're talking to. Doesn't have to be your real name. We have a lot of "Anonymous's" and I can get easily confused.

    I admire you for the research you're doing. You're asking alot of good questions and aren't being entirely prejudiced by the guns you've shot, including your friends.

    I'm concerned that you're setting yourself up for disappointment when you say "Im tired of trying out guns that dont shoot accurate and dependable every time. Im also concerned about having to shoot a gun a few hundred times to break it in.I just want something that shoots accurate out of the box."

    Please realize that spring guns require a learning curve. Some more than others. First, mastering the artillery hold is critical to determine if the gun is accurate or not. Second, you must allow for a "break in" period to ascertain whether this gun is for you or not. A normal "break in" period for a springer is 1,000 pellets shot through the gun. A tune/lube from a knowledgeable airgunsmith can shorten this period but not by much. Third, all pellet guns (not just springers) need to sample a variety of pellets to determine which pellet is the most accurate in that gun. Two different guns, each the same model, may have a different pellet that they're accurate with.

    The "bottom line" is to be patient and learn how your springer likes to be held, shoot it enough to break it in and try a variety of pellets to determine which is most accurate in your gun. This is part of the fun in getting to know your gun and wringing out every ounce of accuracy it's capable of.

    Please be prepared for this process since it takes time and patience or you will be disappointed with any springer you choose.

    Have fun with it and enjoy the journey.

    kevin



  24. Dangit AJVenom
    ya got me again:)now I'll have ringo's
    voice and that razzy wax paper and comb
    sound(kalamazoo) in my head all night.

    Here ya go finish this one:
    As I pondered weak and weary/shootin
    pellets far and nearly/came a tapping at
    my door/qouth the condor never more:)

    JTinAL


  25. kevin..my name is Troy it was just easy to post without a acccount. Wow the thought of having to shoot a gun 1000 times and miss the mark is not a pleasant thought.how much off the mark should I expect the break in shots to be.I gotta wipe out these tree rats now. this is making me think of breaking out the scoped 10/22 with some sub sonic rounds.I just hate firing any gun into the sky especially in the city.Id like to break out the 7mm mag and vaporize them right this min if not.One squirrel says to the other hey rocky go a little further out on that limb pick the biggest hardest pine cone you can find and drop it on the roof of that pretty sports car,then grab another and pick it to pieces and see how many shreds you can get to drop right into the cowling.lol thats how it is over here right now.they all must die!
    Are the air ram conversions any less dependent on the hold and break in?


  26. By the way,if yall haven't seen Vincent
    Price's 1963 version of this with Boris
    Karloff,Peter Lorre,and Jack Nicholson
    it's good for a few grins.I believe Jack's dad James produced it and gave
    Jack his start in the biz.Seems like it was out before"One Flew Over the Cuckoo's
    Nest"They were a bit before my time:)

    JTinAL


  27. Troy,
    Goin through 1k pellets isn't as bad or as
    long as it seems.Once you pick a rifle
    it's easy to go through 2 tins of pellets
    experimenting with different holds,then
    tryin out pellets to see what suits
    you and the gun.Then settin up and zeroing
    the scope and checking different distances
    Then there's the fun of"I know I can do
    better than that"
    I bet most of us here have gone thru 2
    tins or more in one fun relaxing
    afternoon.If you let it,it can be a
    zen thing:)this is a sport of more than
    1 goal even if your main goal is to
    protect your property.

    Let it take you,go with the flow,be one
    with the airgun grasshopper,when you can stack the pellets the squirrels
    will know(and other assorted BS)
    Sorry it's late and I'm loopey.

    JTinAL


  28. Troy,
    SAVE YOUR MONEY (or borrow some)… SAVE YOUR TIME… HAVE FUN, AND GET YOUR JOB DONE.. RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX…

    Neighborhood quiet.. very accurate.. quick follow up shots..

    One word…

    MARAUDER .22cal.

    it's more than twice your budget.. but you'll save money in the long run.. and be hitting your mark right from the start…

    And… you'll also be buying a collector item.. keep the box perfect.. take care of the gun..

    5 years from now, it could be worth twice what you paid…. and you'll have your den walls full of squirrel heads!

    I say this to all folks that ask your question.. some listen ..some don't.. don't waste time with springers.. especially with your attitude..

    Kevin is totally right about the commitment it takes.. and then you still don't get it right.. and your frustrated!! And you sell the springer for half price or have it tuned… then sell it for half price..

    Go "PCP" young man!!! ..

    But if you must start with a springer.. I second the Avenger 1100 or RM600 … or even a good used RWS92 (under $100 with a scope) if you can stay under 25 yards. Start there and save up for a Marauder!

    Wacky Wayne,
    Ashland Air Rifle Range


  29. Wayne,

    I agree, Benjamin Marauder in .22. However, you need a hand pump or SCUBA tank to fill it with: $499 + $200 = $699 total. It is worth it, but thats a lot! Maybe a Benjamin 392 ($150) or a Daisy 22SG ($100) would do at closer range? The Daisy is very quiet, I don't know about the 392.

    A.R.


  30. Troy,

    Welcome to the blog. I hope you will stick around for a while and learn about these wonderful guns.

    You mentioned using the Ruger 10-22. I wrote a four-piece series for Shotgun News entitled "What can you do with a 10-22," to examine all the uses for that rifle. In fact, I'm not finished with the series yet.

    One thing I learned that you probably know is that the 10-22 out of the box isn't especially accurate–any more than any other inexpensive autoloader. Mine was shooting 1.5-inch groups at 50 yards. Those are 10-shot groups, because I also don't play the 5-shot group and 3-shot group game that some modern gun writers do.

    After accurization, I got the groups down to the half-inch category–again with 10 shots.

    My point is, most shooters just accept the 10-22 as an accurate "do-everything" rimfire, when the truth is, it's no better than a Marlin model 60 or other inexpensive self-loader. I don't. I test the thing and see what it can REALLY do, then I publish my results.

    The same with airguns. This blog contains over four years of those findings, and we have looked into some very esoteric subjects in that time. My readers are extremely interested shooters, for the most part. Some are new to airguns, like yourself and some are even new to the shooting sports. But everybody is welcome to comment here and we listen and help anyone (me included) who gets stuck with a problem.

    I hope you will take the time to join us, and experience the fun of airgunning, too.

    B.B.


  31. I hope the following advice on springer's and squirrels are helpful.

    I own a RWS350 magnum .177, its had a few thousand rounds through it and taken a few squirrels. Here's some tips:

    a) Shoot powerful springer's open sight, your shouldering and cheek position on the gun will be repeatable compared to a scope which has a wider field of view. This beyond anything else has made my gun a tack driver.

    b) Use hollow points, I like the Beeman Crow Magnum, a heart/lung shot is easier than a head shot and you cause a rapid drop in blood pressure disabling the squirrel. I center my aim just behind the shoulder.

    c) Keep your shots within your proficiency and be patient. Take your time for a good clean broadside/headshot. Always rest the springer on your hand and place that on a stable hard surface.

    d) A .22 hollow point is better than a .177 hollow point for taking small game. But I've had great success with a .177 HP in my 1250ft/s springer at 15 yards.

    e) Despite all of this, the squirrel may not die instantly and new squirrels will replace the dead ones. Consider putting out a special feeder for them in your back yard and dispatching them with more privacy. Consider other "anti-squirrel" methods to compliment your airgun, this will reduce your workload in the long run.

    f) I clean my barrel every 500 shots with a Beeman cleaning patch pushed through dry until no more lead appears on it. This greatly improves accuracy. Your break in may require a clean after the first 100 rounds due to the excess oil and dieseling.

    Stick with it, a quality airgun will last you a long time. I like the ability to train my technique without visiting the range. Shooting open sight also allows me to train muscle memory for shotgun sight and kick.

    G.


  32. Troy,

    Welcome!

    As others have already stated, 1,000 pellets will happen quickly. The break in period with a spring gun will allow the velocity to settle, smooth out the cocking effort and usually reduce the trigger effort.

    It sounds like you have a firearm background so you undoubtedly will master the artillery hold and ammo preference for your chosen gun before most would. During this break in period I'm confident that you will also remove a few of your tree rats.

    A gas ram gun can also be hold sensitive (see B.B. recent article part 3 of the Crosman Nitro).

    If you want to avoid this short break in period, buy a pumper or a pcp.

    kevin


  33. I would love to have a pcp,but just have a hard time spending that kinda $ on a air gun.How much does a good pcp go for used and where is a good source to find used air guns.
    I took out over a dozen squirrels last yr with the gamo viper but missed them often or just wounded them and had to deal with them flopping all over the street till they settled down for a second shot.I returned that one for that reason.Ive tried the haveaheart traps with good camo and every bait with very little luck,the feeders ive tried using in discrete locations never got any action.I usually have to make shots from my front yard or roof into the 2 pine trees in my front yard.
    I really dont have a good place to plink around and burn up a 1000 shots here on my property.I did take the time to sight it in shooting out my side garage door to quite it down a little,but i wouldnt press my luck doing that a 1000 times in this neighborhood.My 10-22 was actually quieter with sub sonics than the gamo viper,but im worried about the bullets going straight through or rare misses shooting up into trees.all my shots will be within 25 to 35 yrds but I need to use a scope to see them well in the trees

    Troy


  34. Checkout the traps section on PA… Here's a quiet trap for use inside your garage or home. http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Air_Venturi_A_G_E_Quiet_Pellet_Trap/1018 … Remember lead dust is released when pellets slam into each other.

    I use wood chips inside my pellet trap to absorb the energy and there's no lead dust as the chips 'recycle'.

    A cheap option is to use two cardboard boxes, one slightly larger than the other. The wood-chips go in the smaller box while the larger box catches the "spill" as you carve out a big hole with your gun. Make the outer box twice the width and height of your target and the inner should have 12"-18" depth of chips. Don't forget to add a 3/4" plywood backstop in case of a miss.

    And there's plenty of printable free targets on the web to choose from. http://www.google.com/search?q=printable+airgun+targets

    And don't forget to fortify your roof: http://www.google.com/search?q=squirrel+proofing+your+roof

    G.


  35. Troy,

    Keep an eye on Pyramyd Airs website for slightly used guns.

    Here's two classified ad sites that are good places to watch for used airguns:

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/

    http://www.airguns.net/classifieds/classifieds.php

    The cost of a good pcp depends on your definition of "good" but I think a used discovery with a pump would be ideal for you or a benjamin 392 might even be better.

    Here's info on a used benjamin that recently sold with the pump:

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/thread/1248622861/FS-+Benjamin+Discovery+.22+and+pump

    Here's info on a used blue streak that recently sold:

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/thread/1248404530/FS-+Sheridan+Blue+Streak+CB9+.20Cal…PIC…GRAPHIC…

    kevin


  36. thanks very useful info I will keep a eye on these classifieds. It sounds like for my needs I really need to be looking at a pcp.but the only way im going to be able to get one of those is used

    troy


  37. Troy,

    Don't overlook the 392. Yes, it needs to be pumped for every shot, but it doesn't require great technique to be accurate, doesn't need to be broken in and YOU CAN REGULATE THE POWER BY CHOOSING HOW MANY PUMPS OF AIR TO PUT INTO IT up to 8 pumps). This seems like a big plus given that you have neighbors so close and overpenetration on those close shots should be a consideration.

    Just a thought.

    kevin



  38. nice one JT!!!!!!

    you're a poet and didn't know it.

    death by multipump..I've used a daisy 22sg and crosman 2100b, but recommend benji 392 or daisy 22 sg. 392 has more power, but 22sg is less expensive and and I like the scope rail on it. You may need to get closer than a more powerful springer.

    pcp offers range and accuracy.

    Squirrels I like .22 cal and shoot them between the eye and the ear or in the side behind the front leg into the chest.

    In town I only get the squirrels that become home invaders and don't leave after their entry points have been blocked. As for the yard, they will just keep moving in which is good for country squirrels because they are good eating.

    I've tried everything with starlings. After two years, a few pesky ones got the crosman 1377 treatment. This year no problems at all. I also can't believe how quiet it is without them. So far no new ones have showed up.


  39. no multi pumps for me,sometimes they come in groups of 2 or 3 and I gotta be quick to get them all.I foound a benji discovery in the classifieds for 350 but no pump.I have a commercial c02 tank,can i fill it with that?


  40. Troy,

    The Benjamin Discovery is a dual fuel gun. In other words, it can be run on hpa (High Pressure Air) or CO2. If you have the right fittings you will probably be able to fill the gun with your commercial CO2 tank. CO2 has limitations. It doesn't like to be shot when it's cool outside and you can't shoot rapidly or you will freeze up the gun. You need to read this terrific 3 part series that B.B. did on this gun that he helped design. This link will take you to part 3 but at the top of the article you can click on parts 1 &2 to read them in order:

    http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2008/01/benjamin-discovery-part-3-velocity.html

    After reading this article you will realize several things:

    1-The Benjamin Discovery is the perfect, entry level, pcp. Time has proven this to be a truism. B.B.'s article predicted it.

    2-The Discovery is loud. It can be made quiet with aftermarket ldc's, moderators, whatever you want to call them but it's probable that they're illegal

    3-The Discovery has one power setting

    4-The Discovery is single shot

    5-The Discovery is the gun that got more people interested in shooting pellet guns than any other in recent history

    Troy, there is a new gun on the market that was designed by Crosman with the help of B.B. (just like the Discovery) called the Marauder. This gun is the next step up from the Discovery since it is quiet, has a great trigger, has better finish/lines, has adjustable power and is a multi-shot. Because of this very recent introduction many Benjamin Discovery's are coming up for sale since their owners are now hooked and want to upgrade.

    Your timing couldn't be better for picking up a Discovery with a pump (and maybe with an ldc/moderator to quiet it down). I would strongly suggest that you post a WTB (Want To Buy) ad on both classified sites I provided you a link to and say you're interested in buying a Discovery with Pump and would prefer one with an ldc/moderator.

    kevin


  41. Troy, if you want to spend less money than you will for even a used PCP, the RWS 850 Air Magnum, which is evidently also called the Hammerli 850 Air Magnum, is an eight shot CO2 repeater that uses the 88 gram cartridges.

    It costs less than half the price of the least expensive PCP, and it requires neither a tank nor an air pump. It won't be as powerful as a PCP, but in .22 caliber it should easily deal with squirrel out to 40 or 50 yards.

    Those 88 gram disposable CO2 tanks are pricey, in my opinion, but some might find it more convenient than having to hand pump a PCP or keep a charged scuba tank around.

    Personally, I'd use a spring gun or a Benjamin 392 multipump to kill squirrel in my yard, despite the limitations of those choices that you mentioned. But if I needed multi-shot capability, little or no break-in, no pumping, and good bang for the buck, I'd seriously consider the Hammerli 850 AirMagnum.

    –Rand


  42. thats a interesting idea, it says the co2 is good for 200 shots? how much are they per tank and will they sit around for months
    I was getting bombarded with pine cones today so I had to get a temp solution,picked up a ruger 177 cal hawk at the sports authority for just over 100,super crappy scope but I went through 5 diff types of pellets and ended up finding the super cheap crossman flat head pellets did really good groups,much better than the gamo magnums and 3 others.they were consistently 1 inch lower at 30 yrds but I zeroed in it for them and was very happy with its groups,around 1 inch using the proper hold.all the pointed pellets were like 2 inch or more groups,very frustrating dealing with those trying to get good kill shots.

    Troy


  43. The AirSource tanks have a metal puncture seal, so they can store forever, as long as you don't let them overheat. Also, I believe that there are aftermarket kits for the 850 that let you use a regular paintball tank, but don't quote me on that.

    The 88g CO2 tanks are $15 for 2.


  44. Troy, the Ruger Airhawk is imported by RWS, a great company. I was surprised at how good the gun was for the money.

    I broke one in for my brother in law. It took 100 rounds, a barrel clean (cleaning pellets or cotton) and the thing shoots pretty good. I got about 1-1.5" at 30 yards with the scope.

    I don't like Gamo pellets, they seem cheap. Checkout the Crosman Premier at Walmart, the pointed and hollow point. I found RWS Supermags (flat head) did very well in the gun.

    Good luck with the tree rats, keep us updated!

    G.


  45. Be careful using cleaning pellets in a spring gun. The lack of resistance is akin to dry firing which can damage your internals. In addition, the cleaning pellets are ineffective in a springer.

    B.B. has a tried and true method for cleaning a barrel with a brass brush and jb bore paste. Use the search box and type in "barrel cleaning" or jb bore paste.

    Remember, many airgun barrels have never been cleaned, even after 10,000 pellets and remain very accurate.

    kevin


  46. 2 down this morn,im sure a bunch more to go.Why would these flat top pellets be so much better than 3 diff brands of pointed?Ill try and find those premiers in at wally..thanks


  47. Anonymous (Troy?),

    2 down already this morning? Well done.

    Wadcutters (flat top pellets) are great for shooting targets. The pointed pellets usually aren't very accurate. The speculation as to why runs the spectrum. My personal opinion is that it's difficult to put the point of the pellet directly on top of the axis of the pellet so you have a pellet that "wobbles" in flight. Whatever the reason, I've never found a pointed pellet to be very accurate in any of my airguns.

    Please try the crosman premiers in the cardboard box. Also try jsb exacts. These domed pellets seem to be most accurate in many guns and the bc is much better than wadcutters for hunting/pest eradication.

    kevin


  48. Yes these wadcutters are taking forever in 177 cal to finish them off,Im shooting into the tops of huge pine trees from a second story roof and they take forever to die,they look like flying squirrels on the way down,they usually are scrabblin around in the tree for a few min before they make their decent and even survive that for a few min.Id really like to have a 22 cal with instant results.My email addy is 1supra@cox.net If you happen to see any good deals on a good pcp,if ya have a min let me know.The discovery I was lookin at had some kinda top mounted clip that held 8 shots.that was cool.Im worried about the noise from it though,everyone talks like they are really loud.How would you compare the sound against a ruger 10-22 with a normal round and a sub sonic?

    Troy


  49. Troy, you might want to take a look at the Gamo Extreme CO2 also. BB just did part 3 of a review of it. It appears to be in the same class as the Hammerli 850 Air Magnum.

    After reading all three of the review sections for the Gamo and comparing with the 850 AirMagnum, my preference would be for the 850 AirMagnum. I have to admit that part of that is based on appearance. I think the Hammerli looks better. The groups were a little tighter on the Hammerli too.

    B.B. mentioned that the Gamo was loud. I don't recall about the Hammerli. It seems like the loudness may be a factor for you, so be sure to research that. From everything I've read (but having no personal experience to back it up) the PCP guns tend to be the loudest of all.

    –Rand


  50. Troy,

    How far away are they from your shooting position? Are you inside shooting through an open window or physically on the roof?

    Are you shooting your squirrels in their heads? A body shot will leave them flopping for a minute or two. Even a head shot isn't always instant death. I've had good results with a shot just in front of the ear hole on a line that runs to their eye.

    –Rand is right about the sound of a PCP. My Discovery is too loud for the back yard, but there are alot of LDC's (Lead Dust Collectors) being made which correct that problem. I'd say the gun is closer to your 10-22 shooting a standard velocity long rifle rathern than a subsonic round.

    Mr B.


  51. hmmm,dont know if that will work for me then.is a ldc a legal name for a silencer? how much is one of those for a discovery. Im actually on the roof shooting its pretty soft angle,their are some low hanging branches that camo me from the neighbors,but a loud gun would give it away


  52. Troy,

    There a a few misguided souls that would say that about LDC's. However, most believe that they don't fall under the legal definition of one. Use the search engin cause B.B. has some info that you need to read.

    Cost, depends on who you buy one from. 50-150 maybe. Mine sounds like an anemic air powered nail gun.

    Hope that helps.

    Mr B.


  53. Troy,

    I forgot to mention, I only "push" a cleaning pellet through the barrel to clean it. Shooting them puts too much stress on the compression chamber.

    Your problem with the "wadcutters" is that they (a) haven't retained enough energy at your shooting distance, and/or (b) don't penetrate deep enough to do the job quickly.

    The Airhawk doesn't have a choked barrel, I suspect that makes it a little more fussy about the type of pellet you use. Also, since you're hunting rather than plinking I recommend visually inspecting each pellet before firing it. Check for an irregular skirt or molding lines on the head. I found this improves shot consistency on several pellet brands. And don't forget to fully seat the pellet before closing.

    For removing squirrels at long range try domed pellets. At short to medium range try a hollow point. The air drag on a flat/HP pellet is significant and will reduce the energy and accuracy BUT a hollow point causes more damage when it connects.

    Its been mentioned before: shot placement is important and you'll get better at judging what works best. So long as the squirrel dies inside 15-30 seconds you're good, any longer and the animal is unduely sufferring.

    G.


  54. what is a choked barrel?Ill try and get some of those crossman premiers soon.I really just got this puppy dialed in on the flatops.Im getting 3/4inch groups at 20 yrds,the other pellets are much larger groups,and oddly not even in the same spot as the flat tops.id prefer to aim at the head or chest,but with this gun im just aiming at the largest part I can depending on what angle they are in the tree,these are all difficult shots,they are normally sitting on a limb and Im below them 15 yrds or so.thats why id really like a pcp,you really do need one for these difficult shots at this distance.But im using this ruger until i can get a good one for a deal.I didnt expect this ruger to be this accurate really


  55. A chocked barrel is one that constricts slightly near the muzzle. It ensures every pellet leaves the gun with the same skirt dimensions… as it forms them the same on each shot. But your gun/pellet combo is accurate, so don't worry.

    Remember, shooting at an incline or decline will lower or raise the impact point respectively compared to sighting in on a level shot.

    Try shooting holes in a leaf from your position and see where the impact point is. You may need to adjust for your incline.

    If all your shots are inside 20 yards then your 1000 ft/sec springer will be just fine for tree rat removal. But, remember to shoulder your gun the same way every time and ensure your cheek weld is the same. BB mentioned putting some masking/painters tape on the stock for your cheek position.

    You don't need a PCP for this application but it sounds like you want one :-) Remember they are loud! unless you get a shrouded barrel like the Marauder or Talon SS.

    G.


  56. 2 more down.Looks like there are going to be over 20 just like last yr at this pace,dont know where all these things are coming from,no big woods anywhere around here?
    these really are difficult shots,no clean open shots,always between pine needles past 3 or 4 branches and wind moving them.alot are close to straight up in shots.gun seems to hit the same mark even with these kinda shots.gotta wait some shots out 10 min or so.they get really slick once they hear the first shot,they run to the very top of the tree and lay flat on a branch or get out in the thick green parts.really interesting hunt.sometimes I just sit up there in the shapdy parts for hours waiting them out.


  57. If you're shooting directly up then the point of impact won't change but the pellet will lose a little energy compared to a horizontal shot.

    The squirrels may have made a home in the tree. They can make a nest in the branches or in a hollow within the trunk. Hopefully they haven't made a home in your attic. Search google for advice on excluding squirrels and then sealing the entry point.

    G.


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